Advice for RSSB believers about how to deal with news about their guru

Yesterday this comment was left on a Church of the Churchless post, "Great BusinessToday video about RSSB guru and Singh brothers." The commenter wondered how to break the news about Gurinder Singh Dhillon's financial misdeeds to Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) devotees who had put a lot of faith in their guru.

Dear Brian Thanks for your blog and exposing the truths!! It is really sad to learn all the truths of recent events. I had a feeling somethiing is corrupt but it still came as a shock when my intuition was confirmed with facts.

I am not part of Sant mat myself but do know people that I love that is. They don’t know yet and I just don’t have the heart to break this news. I can just imagine that if your whole belief system was based on the idea of a perfect living master and to found out he is not so perfect after all, will pull the rug underneath you.

Especially this path’s standards are so high in terms of diet and moral life. How do you break such news to somebody you love while you know their world will be shattered? How have other Satsangis took the news? Is it best to just keep quiet and wait till truth be revealed? Ruth

Ruth asked some good questions.

Since I was a member of RSSB for 35 years, and embraced the Sant Mat teachings for almost all of that time before I stopped believing in them, I've had to deal with the same difficult process of breaking away from a spiritual philosophy that used to mean so much to me.

All I can do is suggest the following advice, which I've shared in a "laundry list" form -- because everybody is different, and I want to give people a variety of ways to deal with disillusionment in a spiritual path or religious dogma. So I'm going to list these ideas as they come to me, without trying to arrange them in a particular fashion.

(1) Truth, Sat in an Indian language, has to be our primary concern. Without truth, we're lost in a maze of falsehoods. So whenever truths are revealed about a guru, master, religious leader, or whoever, those truths should be embraced, not pushed away.

(2) Truths can be painful. But the pain of living a lie, or living in illusion, is greater. Yes, fantasies can be fun. But eventually fantasies are revealed to be much less substantial than truth, since truth always wins out in the end. Why? Because reality is hugely more powerful than illusion.

(3) This is one of my all-time favorite sayings. When I used to give talks at RSSB meetings (satsangs), I'd often cite this quote from Philip K. Dick: "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." So if a spiritual or religious belief is given up, nothing is lost, because reality is beyond beliefs.

(4) When we expect someone to be perfect, we're bound to be disappointed. So don't expect perfection. Not of your spouse, friend, relative, co-worker, boss, political figure, or... a guru. Everybody makes mistakes. Some are innocent mistakes. Some are willful mistakes. Regardless, expect imperfection, not perfection.

(5) Taoism, which I'm drawn to as a philosophy, says that the world is made up of yin and yang, light and darkness, positive and negative, substantial and insubstantial, embracing and rejecting, and so on. Opposites are what make the world go 'round. If we welcome only one side of a pair of opposites, we're ignoring a big part of reality.

(6) Often people think, "If such-and-such happened, my life wouldn't be worth living." But usually, when that thing does happen, life is still very much worth living. We humans are resilient creatures. Don't underestimate your capacity to adapt to a difficult situation, and then move on from there.

(7) It's natural to want to feel special, which includes being part of a special group, one especially favored or beloved by God. However, what if God, or the cosmos, actually doesn't play favorites? What if it doesn't matter whether someone believes in this or that, but simply does their best to be a good human being? (As you can guess, this is how I consider reality operates.)

(8) Consider: out of all the religions, spiritual paths, and mystical teachings in the world, what is the chance that you have come across the Only One that is objectively true? Very small, right? Yet almost every believer feels that they have found that Only One. Isn't this more than a little egotistical or self-centered? 

(9) What people often find most satisfying about a religion or form of spirituality isn't so much the concepts that make up that teaching, but the good feeling they have from being part of a group that accepts them, welcomes them, supports them. Yet it is possible to have that same good feeling after someone leaves a certain group, because there are countless groups that accept, welcome, and support.

(10) Think about how many changes have occurred in your life. Most likely you've changed homes, friends, jobs, cars, lovers, pets, hairstyles, clothes, sports, and so much else. So it isn't strange that people also change their religion, spiritual path, or mystic teaching. This is normal.

(11) Doubts also are normal. Often people who belong to a certain religion or spiritual group wrongly believe that everybody else in the group but them has perfect faith, because usually expressing doubts isn't welcomed. Believe me, almost everyone has doubts, whether they admit this or not.

(12) Trust yourself. If you trusted yourself when you decided to join a religion or form of spirituality, also trust yourself if you decide to leave it. Don't be led astray by a group's teaching that leaving it will bring horrible consequences, such as a nasty afterlife. Almost every group has ways to keep members from leaving. Know that you are stronger than those ways.

(In case you're wondering, yes, this 1976 cartoon really was drawn by Charles Schulz. Read the comments on that post.)

Comments

[Spence Tepper]

So compassionate!
Thank you Brian!!!!!
So, so very compassionate!

[Spence Tepper]

Well, Brian, and my other Church friends. I think the goal has been accomplished. And I can go now.
Thank you all...

[Jen]

Dear Spence,

Keep your faith if it helps, don't worry about what others are thinking or doing, mostly we are simply seeking the truth, whatever that is...

This quote sounds like me and makes me laugh...

What does a dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac do at night? He/She stays up wondering if there really is a dog.

Cheers my friend :)

[One Initiated]

Brian,
"nasty afterlife"
not at all by leaving the teachings and just be happy like you were without it,
but returning bitter and start abusing the Master - it does.

[dharam]

Brian
You are instructing people to leave RSSB path of spirtuality..Your
formation of this blog and devoting so much time to write the posts,reading ,analysing,replying the comments shows that mentally,you are more connected to RSSB path of spirttuality than most of the real RSSB followers at present and that is the miracle of saints.You are missing your RSSB satsang and speakership day badly. And somehow somewhere there is a deep instinct in your innerself of sepration fron God.

[dharam]

777
Rightly said
"We still see His Light
and hear HIS SONG"
GREAT

[Sunil]

Mr whoever you are first of all u r a moron . U should not be writing all these blogs because you will have to pay heavy price of your soul in your there after life. We r small creatures of this universe and master has come here to free us from clutches of karmic account . God save u Mr .u r not the sole entity prevalent on this universe
. If u have some character left stop all these stories.

[Eliza]

I am actually want to know that how much u get paid for doing all this nuisance talk. If u will have given this much time to ur meditation u will have got the superconciousness stage in ur life. Stop criticizing the path where u stepped in, due to any reason. Some one who talks against guru will never be forbidden neither in this birth nor in next birth. Keep progressing on ur spritiual and realize the real power of guru and his place.

[Jesse]

RSSB members are extremely bitter people.

Don't read the blog if it hurts you. Just worship the king of thieves and ignore the internet.

[Arjuna]

@ Jesse - let’s wait and see how this all unfolds. I’m not bitter. Just a lost soul seeking answers.

Hope the gym work is going 👍🏽 ok.

Best regards Arjuna

[Arjuna]

And yes no one should be writing bad stuff towards Brian!

I know he serves a huge purpose in this tale and anyone who has had experience with things they can explain such as me and the markings on my body - would Dare not write such things.

We don’t know what happens to us at point of exit from this body.

[tucson]

OneInitiated wrote: "not at all by leaving the teachings and just be happy like you were without it,
but returning bitter and start abusing the Master - it does."

--Sounds to me like the master is abusing himself via his corrupt behavior. Others are merely reporting and commenting on this behavior.

dharam wrote: "You are instructing people to leave RSSB path of spirtuality..Your
formation of this blog and devoting so much time to write the posts,reading ,analysing,replying the comments shows that mentally,you are more connected to RSSB path of spirttuality than most of the real RSSB followers at present and that is the miracle of saints."

--In 10-11 years of participating on this blog I have never heard Brian, the blog host, "instructing people to leave RSSB path of spirituality". He just points out the flaws in RSSB dogma and the guru as he sees it. He doesn't tell people what to do. I can't really speak for him on this but I don't think he cares if you, dharam, or other satsangis, stay on the RSSB path or not. I think he cares only that the truth gets out and that unproven beliefs are challenged. It's up to the reader of this blog to decide for themselves what to do with their lives.

It is natural for Brian to have some interest in the events concerning the path he was on for 35 years even if he no longer believes in it. It's just curiosity. At least hat's how it is for me. I was involved with RSSB for about 27 years. Then I stopped. It no longer fit my view of things. Still, I have some curiosity about a religion I spent so much time with. This is natural, I think. I no longer live in Florida but I still keep track of hurricanes. Habit I guess.

For me, there is no bitterness. I no longer believe in the powers attributed to "masters" nor did I attain exhalted spiritual status in Par Brahm (I know that will come as a shock to some of you), but Sant Mat teachings did help me to solidify my values at a time when I was still sorting them out. Plus, it got me out of the house by taking a couple of trips to India and the Dera. Didn't have to work during those trips except carry a few leaky baskets of dirt in mitti seva and in exchange I got free room and board. What a deal!

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jen!

Yes, thank you.
I see in Brian's post the very face of Maharaji. Brian has written something universal and spiritual, because upon that platform can be universal appreciation for the wonder of this place, and our duty to help each other, even as our beliefs are different.

Brian has succeeded here. Brilliantly, and most importantly, with nearly Christ-like compassion for those who do not hold his views, but who may be suffering inside.

I can add nothing. Except to say, "Brian. Job well done!"

[dharam]

Splence
You are encouraging Brian to guide you to no path from a path of spirtuality.Surat Shabad Yoga is not only the best and simplest path of spirtuality,it is also very natural.
You are already in a process of thinking.Santmat tells you to think of holy names by repeatung and keeping your attention at the point from where these thoughtsand attention are emerging.Light and Sound will automatically come if you succeed to hold your attention at the point behind eyes.So you understand it that it is simplest,bestcand natural path.Do not be misguided by Brian who understands it well but just has strayed grom path only because of Ego,the biggest enemy of 5 enemies to prevent the souls from going back to its home.

[Neville]

No PARAYI NINDA. FOCUS on the Love and let it Flow.

There is But One God. He knows everything. Leave it all to His Will and move on... Pralabdh will take us forward with His Grace and Mercy.

[Brian Hines]

Eliza, I'm pleased to inform you that I get paid exactly zero for what I write on not only this blog, but my other two blogs. In fact, I pay Typepad, my blogging service, so actually I get paid less than zero.

Thanks for the spiritual advice, but I really don't need it. I was a RSSB devotee for 35 years, so I'm very familiar with the whole guru thing. Been there, done that. I've moved on to a spiritual path that suits me better.

[Dalip]

Whoever has started this blog is doing a great disservice to himself and others who sincerely try to follow the teachings of Santmat.... Instead of spending so much time energy on finding faults and spread gossip about spiritual masters he should do some meditation ....U don't have to tell others what they should see ....

[Brian Hines]

Dalip, since you don't believe in spending time and energy on finding faults, why are you spending time and energy criticizing me? You don't have to visit this blog, but you choose to do that. I guess what I write about is so full of truth and wonderfulness, you can't stay away.

[SARPUNEET]

A spiritual guru must be 100%perfect persona this RSSB is not even 50%.

Guru Granth Shaib says that only a perfect Guru can enlighten you spritualy. unfortunately, In India mostly Gurus are either big business men or full of luxury and Lust full life.

[Nick NY]

This blog is a game changer and I have been visiting this blog for many years. Funny, how I found Brian was after I googled him upon reading his book, “Life is Fair” only to find he has left RSSB. I was having a lot of doubts about this path to begin with, but after reading this blog, I understood that there is no need to follow any other person as GIHF. We all will merge with the creator at some point of time as the source and the end is creation itself. I read all the comments here, so people have different opinions and rightfully so, but I guess, it’s ok and even an act of kindness to overlook some of the angry comments as those comments could be out of hurt of believing a guru who is in so much news for a lot of wrong reasons currently. We all can express what we want, but the commonality amongst all of us here is that we are thirsty for spiritual knowledge and desire to meet our creator. I wish everyone success in finding true happiness and the path to God realization. Brian, please keep posting as this news about GS and his nephews unravels, interesting to see what happens at the end.

[Vicky]

Following was shared by a RSSB initiate and this is just one of many incidents I have heard from sincere followers of the path (credible sources such as my mother or people close to me who would never boast or lie) about how their Master guides and protects them and looks after both the swaarath (earthly) and parmarath (Godly). Many have seen their Master's Radiant Form not only during meditation but also while facing difficulties and hardships in life.

Below is an excerpt from a fellow satsangi: 777

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So this is the story
If any body is reckognizing me, . . please keep silent.

Initiated in 1965 - I had the idea - This Path is much to difficult and exalted for me and if anything would result it's not by my force , neither my interest, c q love
but two things of the vow-list I could easily do
The non-meat and the Simran
So I tried really hard this simran 24/7 and I started even using it which is not 'allowed' in business and so and I developped from a minus 1000 $ guy to the oppsite- then acquiring an IBM 360 at the time
using that computer 'wisely'
and came to a point that someone offered me a fantastic home in the Saint Tropez neighbourhood of France, I moved in

but that was after 6 years to costly and my father in law phoning often saying ;

"You have to come back" - a lot is mismanaged and they steal even

I said OK, at your next visit here
please bring the bookkeeping papers and we go through it together

So he came and I said :
Let's go to the beach and discuss and so we were on the beach and I saw that he was right and I had to give up this nice life
( in Holland there is a verb "like God in France" - kidding )

Twenty meters of where we were sitting there was a man reading the local newspaper : "THE NICE MATIN"

It's rather heavy - full of advertisements
anyway - the man there was putting the Journal in the sand and went to the sea to swim

The weather was mild with almost no wind

The moment that i agreed to return to Holland as a final decision and we were a sort of voting ) I said

"I choose for Holland"

At that precise moment the NICE MATIN
by the force of the wind but I m not sure
went airborn
flew the whole 20 meters and landed halfway in my lap
and opened ( the man had closed it)

Immediately as if it was written with big characteres in the middle of the opened page
I saw written
"Nous choissisons Vivaldi"

This was so heavy a chocker because
in english this is

"WE CHOOSE VIVALDI"

that I immediately
added and changed my decision
in VIVALDI
because Vivaldi is the owner of the super house where I still live
and "WE" is pluralis majestatis
which gives a lot of goose busting or bursting

Then we took that Journal of August , 2 1986 in our hands
and saw that it was about the horse-racing in Gagnes-sur-Mer
and that one of the experts , mentioning a little list of 9 horses
had added his choice to be 'VIVALDI'

But this story hasn't ended yet

Looking to the list of the horses and yes, in the middle : there was Vivaldi
but the last one had the name RIGHTLY which was so nice an addiction
to the sphere we were in
BUT the first Horse on the list had the exalted name :

MAHARAJI

I still consider this Nice Matin as a Recommended Letter and it was

Cheers Guys, also the infidels, :-)
<3
. . .

** I still possess this newpaper
and I have given copies to certain satsangis
because I will have it published ( also here ) after
my body will be no more

In 1991 I have send a copy to Gurinder, narcisticly thinking that it would be a great help to Him
and He answered me so nicely
That it was no wonder that Charan
helped his disciples and he thanked me for the letter and my narcistic invitation to come here for vacation

Sant Mat : There is much more to it
Make yourself invulnerable Guys here
and go in the Third Eye even while doing the NY Marathon
or paying in the casino
And try to hear that sweet tiny tone to start with
It's not Tinnitis which is an ugly often painful phenomenon

Every jeeva in creation will go this way -soon or a few big bangs later

* - I changed the name of the landlord into another componist for privicy reasons

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Aniket]

Firstly our body is our church.
Secondly we belive that the guru and the path is perfect and you will never understand until you have darshan of the guru.. but before that the guru decides who is his disciple..
Thank you..

[Vicky]

My advice to RSSB believers who find it difficult to meditate because of the latest news about OUR Guru is to go on meditating.

Why?

Meditation is a means to the end and that end is the Ultimate Truth/God/ Creator or whatever name you'd like to call it.

The sole purpose of meditation is to create a desire to TRULY reunite with God, to loosen worldly ties and entanglements by detaching from this physical world and attaching ourselves to that divinity instead and to express a sincere and heartfelt desire to escape the cycle of birth and death.

IF you are repeating the 5 words for the ABOVE mentioned reasons, does God not know that? Is he that dumb to not know the PURPOSE of your repititon of the 5 words?

Focus at the eye centre and use meditation as a means to remember God and put this valuable human birth to some good use. Freedom from the cycle of birth and death is never unattainable...... to the ones who pine for it.

[Jai sandhu]

Hey whoever you are we are not saying anything about your religion then why are you all writing bad stuffs against us

And whosoever is writing against rssb is already a is already paid
Tell me how much money you get to say all these things against rssb .

[Neeharika Ch]

I literally typed many sentences but i don't want to post it because u and me are not same i have some sense to do all this..one thing i want to tell you we know what we are and what god is..you cannot take even a single drop from people following this because we know tha value of this...thank you for your useless time spending on this to post

[Abcd]

You are illitrate

[TRUE HUMAB]

These ANGREJ (white people) are just want to dominate all over. Please see inside you then speak for others ..... MAD and EGO FULL people......

[TRUE HUMAN]

FOOL WHITE MAN
WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT OUR GREAT CULTURE WHICH IS BEING DEPICTING BY INFLUENCE OF WEST

[Brian Hines]

Abcd, if I'm illiterate, how do I know that you misspelled "Illiterate" as "illitrate"?

True Human, I spent 35 years as a member of RSSB, and had lots of contact with Indians during that time. You sound rather racist with your talk of "fool white man" and such. Do most Indians think like you do? I sure hope not.

[Gurpreet]

See.. Mr.please stop ..im begging u.. plzz stop ur talks... if u dont like dera.. then..its ur wish.. we have no problem at all.. ur wish.. ur life.. but there Are billion followers who trust.love.respect their spiritual life.. so dont ever try to misguide people.. okk.. this world gives democracy to everyone.. to choose there own lifestyle.. so .. all humans have brains to think about.. what is wrong and what is right... so i think.. u should have not to take care of all world.. u r not godson.. okk.. keep this stuff in ur mind.. nd lock it properly.. thnku so much.. 😊

[Brian Hines]

Gurpreet, no one is forcing you to visit this blog and read the posts. I've been writing on this blog since 2004, so 14 years. I'm not going to stop now, because I enjoy writing about "churchless" matters.

I also want to observe that it is very rare in the United States to demand that someone stop speaking and writing about an issue, in part because we have a First Amendment that guarantees free speech.

So it sounds strange to me when Indians, or anyone, tell me to keep my thoughts in my mind. That is just almost unheard of in the United States. We argue, we debate, we insult, we discuss. But very rarely do people say, "You don't have a right to say that," because we Americans know that we do have that right.

In this regard, I believe India has something to learn from the United States. Free speech is a wonderful thing. It is a foundation of democracy. It gives everybody the chance to be heard, to express themselves. It stimulates understanding of important issues. Your country needs more free speech, not less. (I'm assuming you live in India.)

[Rajni]

Unless and Until u do Gurus darshan and there is current in ur body and u have tears in ur EYES and ur WHOLE body is getting attracted to Guru just like magnet attract iron U WILL not understand RSSB and if u r stamped then u will be initiated and then u will know the real meaning of GuRu

[Brian Hines]

Rajni, I was initiated by the RSSB guru, Charan Singh, in 1971. I've had his darshan and also the darshan of Gurinder Singh. I meditated as instructed every day for 35 years. So I do know the real meaning of "guru."

[Moony]

Brian
I agree with you that India should learn freedom of speech from US but Americans should learn love and devotion from indians

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Rajni

You wrote
Unless and Until u do Gurus darshan and there is current in ur body and u have tears in ur EYES and ur WHOLE body is getting attracted to Guru just like magnet attract iron U WILL not understand RSSB and if u r stamped then u will be initiated and then u will know the real meaning of GuRu"

I think this explains a lot.

It is natural to feel love.

And unfortunate anyone takes advantage of that.

And worse still if they believe it is right to do so

[Rajiv]

This guy spent 35 years following RSSB so we should listen to him 😂 dude, you took a calculator along and messed up everything.... well, we have many people who followed RSSB for more than 35yrs and they still follow... they dont write blogs 😢 and the way you are advising people here, take my advise, start writing novels pal 👌 you got the talent and that frustration whats required !!

[Jesse]

"Americans should learn love and devotion from indians"

Yeah I gotta disagree. Your so called love and devotion is why rapists are worshipped and celebrated and any dork who reads the gita can get rich.

We already have a stupid celebrity culture here which is equal in devotion. We don't need more layers of fake love.

[Jesse]

"take my advise, start writing novels pal 👌 you got the talent and that frustration whats required !!"

Rajiv, RSSB hired Brian to write books for them and he also did personal security for Gurinder.

Your baba is a guy on a stage who you'll never meet. Instead of telling people what to think you should listen to people who know more than you.

But you won't because the dunning kruger effect is all too real.... except in Japan for some reason. Japanese are a truly great race.

[Rajiv]

35yrs of his useless life and he doesn't know that babaji tells us to play our role in responsibilities at home, society and work. To manage what we have and live with it !!

35yrs of a wasted life and he digged into singh brothers life cuz he couldn't find life of his own 😢 well, its a blog and lemme take advantage of US freedom of speech here.... i never paid or received a single penny to/from RSSB in 40yrs of my life, Babaji kept telling always ke bhajan simran karo ye shareer ke darshan karke kuch nai milna which truely indicates that he himself doesn't wish us to k

[Rajiv]

35yrs of his useless life and he doesn't know that babaji tells us to play our role in responsibilities at home, society and work. To manage what we have and live with it !!

35yrs of a wasted life and he digged into singh brothers life cuz he couldn't find life of his own 😢 well, its a blog and lemme take advantage of US freedom of speech here.... i never paid or received a single penny to/from RSSB in 40yrs of my life, Babaji kept telling always ke bhajan simran karo ye shareer ke darshan karke kuch nai milna which truely indicates that he himself doesn't wish us to keep visiting his place and body... well, these are the things that made babaji's concept a bit appealing to my soul....

Secondly, i have studied ayurvedic medicine that dates back to vedic period. Its a bit more than 35 years of this banyan tree's life that he spent at RSSB though his strength of words and choice of news and statements in this blog are just perfect in accordance with his intentions.. Well, we have shatchakras in our body that are very well described in ayurveda and the teachings of RSSB follow exactly the same line but with much superior level that can be known only when you read the science or atleast any holy book that a religion may follow.. its the same everywhere !!!

Thirdly, even i'm a bit practical kinda person and i wouldn't submit my faith that blindly upon texts written in books.... shatchakras are the six energy points inside our body and going exactly with what the texts had to say, having mastered them with meditation one can have immense powers within himself like ability to leave his body and reach far away places, control over 5 elements like fire water earth sky and air, telepathy, much much much more...... its clearly mentioned there that there is a lot much above these shatchakras but only rarest of rare can have that ability and power to reach there or make a balance with that power....... well, all that was in texts and books from vedic period that we learnt in details to explain in writing for passing exams.....

A follower and a devotee of RSSB , a very old and kind of a very silent person, somewhat living in his own world always, deeply into meditation.... he happened to live near to my place.... went ill in his old age and it was like 2 days before he died that he told of the day and even that morning hours when he was to leave to his family in his broken n old cottage but in my presence......... i know this cuz nobody told me a story, i was there !! RSSB is a path that starts above 10th chakra my friend and the way of meditation, the whole science is exactly the same as described in those books written in vedic period but without a relationship or purpose limited or even related to powers.... its related to the supreme but with a purity of heart mind and soul..... u cant reach or even think og reaching there with shortcuts or dobuts in the path that u follow... its written the same in holy books of every religion !!
This was just a small example of what made me trust....

Gurinder singh did this, he did that, he is a corrupt or a thief....... you wasted your 35yrs pal..... !!!! Mere 6 months but with full dedication and trust would have shown you what exactly RSSB and teachings of a guru are..... u couldn't control your mind, ur mind defeated you by telling that your brain ur senses and ur knowledge are above everything and you created a blog in support ..... 35? Even at this hour, even at age of 70, even at a full dedication into RSSB for nearly 50-55yrs my parents are meditating at this very moment and they are highly educated to know the difference between whats faith and whats fake.... and there are billion of others like them.... they must be receiving something that keeps them going for so many years... what say???

Aight !! People are dumb and you , ur experiences n theories n education n knowledge may be right..... still, u won't find a single RSSB follower who would humiliate your faith into your theories.. unlike what you do by writing such blogs.... doesn't RSSB atleast make us a better human being in the first place? .... no compulsions, follow ur theories n path n whatever...... and dont reply cuz i won't revisit ... im not in dobut or having interest for debates or refining anyone.... ciao !!

[Rajiv]

Lol..... they deleted my post 😂 stupid cowards

[Spence Tepper]

Rajiv
The point of irritation is the news.
The reports.
You are most welcome to share news facts or your opinion about those things.
Brian is doing Maharaji's will. He is uniquely well suited to it.
Brian has a history of pointing to fact.
Once you go beyond emotion and understand this, all there is left is admiration.
And a desire to reconcile these facts.

You are human. You can be wrong.

Any one of us can be.

Facts are the only tools humans have.

So please offer some.

[Rajiv]

Spence.... i appreciate your words 👍 i dont call him wrong or even judge him for anything at all..... yeah, i can be wrong and so can you or this blogger i forgot that name sorry...... you guys spoke of what news and thoughts you are having and i spoke about mine.... its a blog after all 😢

[Brian Hines]

Rajiv, nobody deleted your post. You got your facts wrong. Your post went into the Typepad spam folder, where I just found it and published it. See, you can be wrong when you jump to unjustified conclusions. This is a good lesson for religious believers. Think. Consider all the possibilities. Say to yourself, "I could be wrong."

[Rajiv]

Kindly keep this comment here.... dont delete.... let your news and views and mine be here to keep it fair and unbiased 👍 i just wrote what i know and have practically seen , the way blogger has written...... and Gudbye after that 😊

........

35yrs of his useless life and he doesn't know that babaji tells us to play our role in responsibilities at home, society and work. To manage what we have and live with it !!

35yrs of a wasted life and he digged into singh brothers life cuz he couldn't find life of his own 😢 well, its a blog and lemme take advantage of US freedom of speech here.... i never paid or received a single penny to/from RSSB in 40yrs of my life, Babaji kept telling always ke bhajan simran karo ye shareer ke darshan karke kuch nai milna which truely indicates that he himself doesn't wish us to keep visiting his place and body... well, these are the things that made babaji's concept a bit appealing to my soul....

Secondly, i have studied ayurvedic medicine that dates back to vedic period. Its a bit more than 35 years of this banyan tree's life that he spent at RSSB though his strength of words and choice of news and statements in this blog are just perfect in accordance with his intentions.. Well, we have shatchakras in our body that are very well described in ayurveda and the teachings of RSSB follow exactly the same line but with much superior level that can be known only when you read the science or atleast any holy book that a religion may follow.. its the same everywhere !!!

Thirdly, even i'm a bit practical kinda person and i wouldn't submit my faith that blindly upon texts written in books.... shatchakras are the six energy points inside our body and going exactly with what the texts had to say, having mastered them with meditation one can have immense powers within himself like ability to leave his body and reach far away places, control over 5 elements like fire water earth sky and air, telepathy, much much much more...... its clearly mentioned there that there is a lot much above these shatchakras but only rarest of rare can have that ability and power to reach there or make a balance with that power....... well, all that was in texts and books from vedic period that we learnt in details to explain in writing for passing exams.....

A follower and a devotee of RSSB , a very old and kind of a very silent person, somewhat living in his own world always, deeply into meditation.... he happened to live near to my place.... went ill in his old age and it was like 2 days before he died that he told of the day and even that morning hours when he was to leave to his family in his broken n old cottage but in my presence......... i know this cuz nobody told me a story, i was there !! RSSB is a path that starts above 10th chakra my friend and the way of meditation, the whole science is exactly the same as described in those books written in vedic period but without a relationship or purpose limited or even related to powers.... its related to the supreme but with a purity of heart mind and soul..... u cant reach or even think og reaching there with shortcuts or dobuts in the path that u follow... its written the same in holy books of every religion !!
This was just a small example of what made me trust....

Gurinder singh did this, he did that, he is a corrupt or a thief....... you wasted your 35yrs pal..... !!!! Mere 6 months but with full dedication and trust would have shown you what exactly RSSB and teachings of a guru are..... u couldn't control your mind, ur mind defeated you by telling that your brain ur senses and ur knowledge are above everything and you created a blog in support ..... 35? Even at this hour, even at age of 70, even at a full dedication into RSSB for nearly 50-55yrs my parents are meditating at this very moment and they are highly educated to know the difference between whats faith and whats fake.... and there are billion of others like them.... they must be receiving something that keeps them going for so many years... what say???

[Jesse]

Ayurveda is maybe the least effective form of "medicine" of all time, Rajiv. Not to mention that nothing in this article is about ayurved so it's weird that you brought it up.

Just because something is old doesn't mean it's good.

Westerners reading these comments from the subcontinent probably miss the implicit ethno supremacism in many of the posts. If you were reading into it like I am, you'd be laughing much harder at this stuff.

[Rajiv]

Aight.... Brian either u were wrong those 35yrs or ur wrong now... for me, u didnt read my text maybe.... and religious followers is what u called me? Lol.... this site and blog, everything is new to me and i know many sites where people can delete posts when they are the admins to a certain page... my post was strictly against and unappealing to you and a bunch of other people here....... i forgot her name she wrote "listen to people who know more than you" .. does she even know what i know?? How do people decide here?? Nobody happens or claims to be a cyber dictator as such !!

Rajiv certainly can be wrong cuz rajiv is a human being but its the same with you and everyone out there..... lets respect each others point of views and cut the crap.... now i read that alias "jesse"... jesse, did u go inside my head and life for a while to know my knowledge and compare it with someone else ?? 😊

[Rajiv]

Jesse 😱 there u show up again !!!
I care a damn about what you have to say.... i didnt teach ayurveda here.... i said that it was very well known then, its very much into practise now and i have many practically seen and felt facts that made me believe.... and im NOT speaking of ayurveda, its just a reference i gave in support of time... and i myself want you to giggle 👍 i'm doing the same.... there's nothing wrong at staying happy lol ... and just to conclude here i'd like to say that i dont enjoy talking to the bullets and blind n frustrated people... i talk to guns, i analyse their point of view, i read their complete state of mind and intentions and then i dont mind at refining them or even if its for me to admit if i'm myself wrong or incomplete at knowledge....... blogger definitely seems to have a refined soul but full of confusions and you all are simply the people who nod their heads finding yourself frustrated and sailing somewhere in the same boat......

You guys couldn't satisfy me and i couldn't satisf you.... lets all walk on our own paths without insulting each other is what i meant in the beginning and is what i still mean 👍

[Jasmine152k]

Hey, I'm just a kid so I don't know much about the topic u r discussing but aren't you all more concerned about the 'group' rather than what the purpose is? I have been a radhasoami since I was born and even before that. Maybe it is because of the culture difference or language difference but when u talk about all of this I cannot feel any of the vibes I would naturally feel when I am listening to a satsang. It has been 18 years of my life and no one in my family or during any of the satsangs did any one say that I will suffer in the afterlife if I don't follow this path. Trust me it comes naturally. Why focus on science and truth and being in a higher state when not even once u mentioned that all of this is because of a reason. That reason being our love for God. Do you love him? Do u trust him? If yes then why do u worry about what's happening with him(master)? You just need to focus on your love for God and he will not disappoint you. If you trust him he will not let u go on the wrong path. RSSB is a location where people come to seek guidance and not a religious group. It is not in any form religion. It is you your guru and God. No one else in between. If just anyone can go to that place (I'm not talking about beas but the place we are meditating to go to) then why would we be working hard? You are tested and it just requires a small ripple to break your trust apart then it is better if u don't meditate. Why can't you understand? Human brain is not enough to see everything if it was then rather than writing this blog you would have been a master. Did you follow everything that was said or did you mix it up with what other people said (they don't know any better than you if they can't guide you right) did you just follow the rules ( meant for your own good. You breaking them would not harm me or master) or did you meditate with all your desire? Did you ever for once succeed in meditation? Did you ever see master guiding you through the dark? Did you ever feel the mutual love of God? Did you ever cry just because you want to go back to him? If not then did you really experience what truly sant mat is? Did you experience his protection?( If you didn't then maybe your faith was not enough). It makes me sick that your point of view about RSSB is just this. It is so much more. Standing at the feet of mountain and you only notice rubble because your view isn't high enough. Trust me and take my word for it. I have been a radhasoami even in my previous life. My family from my mother's side has been into meditation since lives and they know what they talk about in satsangs. I don't blame you because if you haven't experienced it, it is easy to take it the wrong way. There is always a reason why he does things they way he does. It was fate to have seen this blog when I don't even check my phone for days. And it was fate that I commented on it when I usually don't even care. But I pity you really. No matter how much I type I cannot explain what sant mat is just by plain words. And a real satsangi won't be sad or broken hearted or angry at this post or any news about him because we know he will deal with it all because we trust his capabilities,what we need to focus is on meditating. We know his capabilities. I don't know if you have read it till the end but if you did then I thank you for putting effort in writing so much material so that I can comment on it. It doesn't matter if you get what I mean. But if you feel like you want to talk to me then I will love to have a talk with you( I highly doubt you would want to tho). May God show you the truth.

[Jesse]

"lets all walk on our own paths without insulting each other is what i meant in the beginning and is what i still mean 👍"

Hey that's a good idea, but I find trading insults to be a fun time.

How about we meet in the middle and keep the insults light?

[Jen]

What a clash between cultures and beliefs! For those who are upset it is important for you to know that Brian, the owner of this blog, was a satsangi many years ago and is now an Atheist.

Atheists do not believe in a God or gods. They do not believe in a spirit, or a soul. After death there is no reward, no judgment, no heaven, no hell, when they die they are dead and there is nothing else.

Satsangis following a spiritual path have very different beliefs and when I look at the difference between an atheist and a spiritual person there seems to be a huge chasm dividing them.

[Vicky]

Dear fellow satsangi brothers and sisters,

Our Master tirelessly explains the value and importance of humility, speaking kind words and minimizing our karmic load on our spiritual journey.

The above is the very basis of spirituality, please avoid hurling insults at the 'angrez' as this act would not make our Master happy and in fact leaves a bad name for his disciples too.

They may have their own views and thoughts and likewise we have ours too.

You can express your love, devotion and faith in the path and make your point (even though honestly speaking, there is no such need to) but without saying harsh/unkind words please.

An elderly uncle used to say that 'These Radha Soamis take so much care of what goes IN their mouth (because of being strict vegetarians) but not of what goes OUT of their mouth.

We are all human and are bound to react but remember that every karma, every insult (whether light or heavy) needs to be accounted for.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jasmine!

You wrote, quite eloquently:

"Did you ever for once succeed in meditation? Did you ever see master guiding you through the dark? Did you ever feel the mutual love of God? Did you ever cry just because you want to go back to him? "

[Naresh]

--------"Dear fellow satsangi brothers and sisters,

Our Master tirelessly explains the value and importance of humility, speaking kind words and minimizing our karmic load on our spiritual journey.

The above is the very basis of spirituality, please avoid hurling insults at the 'angrez' as this act would not make our Master happy and in fact leaves a bad name for his disciples too.

They may have their own views and thoughts and likewise we have ours too.

You can express your love, devotion and faith in the path and make your point (even though honestly speaking, there is no such need to) but without saying harsh/unkind words please.

An elderly uncle used to say that 'These Radha Soamis take so much care of what goes IN their mouth (because of being strict vegetarians) but not of what goes OUT of their mouth.

We are all human and are bound to react but remember that every karma, every insult (whether light or heavy) needs to be accounted for.
Posted by: Vicky | September 18, 2018 at 05:57 PM-----"

This is the rare quality, that is the reason so many westerners are attracted to join RSSB. They come from far off, Actuality they are more attracted towards humility and spirituality which they don't find there.

Their Governments have given them freedom of speech, but have not taught them how to avoid hurting others' sentiments. They think that as their Government has given them freedom of speech so that they are free to tell anybody as Pig openly. They are not even ashamed to whom they are pointing.

The Blogger is in 70s. Though he has writing skills, but for learning - humility and spirituality, very difficult now. The values which are missing at the age of 70s, how can they come in his rest of life?

The Blogger has to think seriously about himself rather than RSSB and other faiths and try to learn and follow humility fist.

[Jesse]

Naresh calls himself, his religion and his country the best, and says they also have the most humility.

This is the definition of "humble brag."

[Dharam]

Jesse
What Rajeev and Naresh mean is you people mind your own business.Why to criticise a master of millions.If you do not believe him,do not believe but no need to criticise him.If you adopted a path from India ,you should respect sentiments of Indian Sangat also.

[Jesse]

"you people mind your own business"

Dharam (misnomer), why don't you dimwit satsangis mind your own business? Nobody is forcing you to come to this blog and whine like little bitches trying to control what I say.

I don't care about any Indian except my wife and I certainly don't care about your thief baba or his idiotic sangat of dupes.I think you're one of the most corrupt and backward people who've ever lived and I have every right to express my dislike of you, your country or any one of your religions any time I want.

None of you have enough sense to say anything relevant about RSSB or the possibility that your lame guru sold dirty meds to epileptics. Baba Gurinder is just one of a million idols to you. Ethics, morality, none of these things matter and they never will because you'd worship anything that you're told to worship. You'll be the same superstitious and backward people you are today 2000 years from now because you're the product of irreversible dysgenics.

Good luck with the brain drain and good luck being broke losers getting tricked by guru celebrities until the end of time.

[Best]

Hello everyone
It's quite amusing to read all the comments from believers as well as church less ones.
All the religions are basically business, just their modus operandi is different from each other. They basically survive on fear and tell us about things that we fear. It's human nature to always go in past or future, we don't like to live in present. Religion take advantage of our fears and insecurities and further their propaganda.
The song called GODMEN and religious elite use us and we willingly do what they expect or want us to do. Be it Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism or any recent sects or whatever you call them.
They all say the same things. We should speak truth, love others,stop hate, don't run after worldly possessions, lead moral life, give donations, shouldn't question, obey them, love them and so on. Just their way of saying is different.
Funny thing is that they do the opposite of what they preach. They collect money, abuse women and kids, buy big properties, make churches, temples etc, hate other religions etc. Etc.
You can donate any amount to them, they will happily take it. But if you eat lunch at another person's home, the load of your karmas will increase and you will have to take birth again to return the favor. What BS!
We should love our guru or perfect master or anyone in that position. They rape and take advantage of the women and kids that love them. They all stress on complete surrender. When you surrender, they do as they want to. They do it, because they all know the futility of all this BS.
We just can't tolerate the views of anyone who doesn't agree with us. So much for love and compassion that we say we are getting from following a particular path. We just act like sheep, follow blindly.
Now, coming to RSSB and it's current problems. It's not a religion or path. It's just a cut and paste thing. They just try to cut teaching of old religions,saints etc and try to push that mocktail down the throat of believers. Why is teaching of guru granth Sahib not taught by Radhaswami dyalbagh people? Beas line focus on selected parts of gurbaani because majority in North INDIA already know it and they try to spin it as it suits them. Rest in later comment.
Good luck everyone.

[Jesse]

Yeah, Best, that's pretty much it.

[Dharam]

Jesse
No doubt,you are materially advanced.I just rquested you to stop hurting sentiments of Indian Sangat. But there are believers from America and all over the world.You may take care of them.
But writing so rudely shows your level of frustration and ego. Do not lose temper .Just relax and think ,"Does criticising benefit You."
Suggestion was given to you since you told you are initiate of Maharaj Ji.
One thing more,Master never dealt in medicines,don't write baseless things.
Ranabaxy was owned by Singh brothers who are his nephews. And I wrote earlier also one cannot be blamed for any wrongdoing of relatives.And so far as medicines are concerned, they are not pharma educated.Execution of business is handled by experts appointed by businessmen and those experts are responsible for any wrongdoing in manufacturing.
Again,relax!

[Dharam]

Jesse
jockily saying.
We,in India have date 19Seotember,11:50 am
here wheras You have still
18 September there.
That way,we are ahead of you,atleast in time.

[Dharam]

Jesse
One thing more,for example if a citizen criticises President of a country,it will least affect to the president and he will enjoy his full term of appontment.But it may hurt to his counrymen.
If You are free tto criticise due to freedom of speech,we are free to request you on behalf of millions of followers all over the world not to criticise our Master.Final decision is yours.

[Chico and the Man]

Both sides of this discussion have some good and some crap. The wise among us will pick and choose the best from both. That's how human intelligence comes into play, not just by tearing each other down wittily (though that's fun). :-)

Practicing satsangis do indeed develop love, joy, meaning and calm focus (best case scenario). Otherwise, who would do these practices, sometimes for decades on end? However, these folks (incl. their leadership) superstitiously attribute these benefits to false, unsubstantiated causes. This can quickly deteriorate into religious dogma, fanaticism and fraud.

Materialists / atheists see a bit more clearly in terms of scientific, material, cause/effect truths (best case scenario), but are often (not always) cynical, joyless and lack a sense of larger purpose / duty.

We don't need a world that's split between extreme materialists and supernaturalists. That, IMO, is hell.

We need more scientists who have a profound love for and sense of duty to the world and humanity.

We need spiritualists who aren't afraid to doubt and test their beliefs so they can separate the gold from the dirt, and share the good stuff with the rest of us. [Scientific research shows that there are indeed health / emotional benefits to religious practices.]

Like everywhere else in the US (and world) right now, people on this blog (with a few exceptions) seem to separating into extreme, warring camps.

IMO, the satsangis especially should not use harsh language. Each time they use words of racism or hate in their comments, they are degrading their path. If you are so ruffled by comments on a blog, you need to meditate more!

[Bombay Blonde]

@ Dharam : What kind of comment was that ? " We are ahead of you, at least in time. " ( ? ) That's just funny ! What you are also suggesting is that the West could be ahead in other ways, in more important ways and that's because India may never be able to get out of its collective Guru-con and the majority will always be blind.

Don't read this blog if you feel so disturbed. You really are as clueless about the financial misappropriations as you are about Sant Mat. Why don't you start a blog of your own for all the RSSB'ers / Satsangis ?

This is the Church of the Imperfect Oregonian. Dera Saccha Salem. Baba Brian Hines Ji Maharaj. Truth Wale.

( Okay, let's have a few laughs and agree to disagree, you have a good day Dharam. )

[Delightful East/West Mix]

Stop being such a fragile sissy, Dharam. Are you and "millions" of other Indians really that scared of some random Jesse's comment?

If that's the case, your faith is already on very shaky ground.

btw, I'm Indian American and don't give two craps what Jesse says...as long as its entertaining, lol. Don't make Indians look bad!!

[Dharam]

Bombay Blonde
I really meant it that you are ahead of us in all fields,rather ahead of whole world.
I wish all the best to Baba Brian Hines Ji Maharaj,Truth Wale of Dera Sacha Salem.

[Vicky]

Do you guys think that Babaji gives a care about what these guys say about him? Saints are above both ninda (insults/ slander) and tareef (praise). If he doesn't care, why do you?

It may be hurtful to hear such things about our Master esp if they come from the one and only foul-mouthed Jesse, but eventually, he will need to deal with his own karma. so let him be.

No one can escape the canons of this beautiful law of karma….. so….to each his own.

Pleading or begging these guys to stop saying such things is a futile waste of energy and time. They won't stop, they will do what they have to do and they are right in a way that this blog was created for this sole purpose. so leave them at it.

Let us instead focus on what we have to do.

Peace, love and blessings to all my fellow satsangis and to the churchless ones too ;)

[Dharam]

We are not afraid of anybody's comment .Our faith is on the solid ground.But nobody including Satsangis should use absurd language.By the way,criticisers are also all satsangis and ex RSSB associates.Baseless allegations such as blaming master for any mistakes by his relatives is wrong.
This fight is among satsangis and ex satsangis who are spreading rumours just because they were fired from their sewa due to indiscipline and disobedience.
Since ,they are using RSSB sub title for their blog,RSSB members have right to object to rumours and baseless allegations but nobody should use racist and absurd language.

[Bombay Blonde]

@ Dharam : Speaking of being ahead, can't you see that you are at least bothering to read some of the stuff that's posted here ? That's called being ahead. Give yourself some credit ! If only you'd care to take a closer look at your own potential and find a way to build a new and more authentic life and purpose. Go back to the original precepts of " dharma " ... you'll find more peace and joy in the simplicity of everyday religion.

You aren't marked. You aren't special. Don't let anyone make you believe in any of that crap that keeps you from taking responsibility and gives you a false sense of superiority. It's a twisted way to live.

You are clinging to your beliefs. I've been there. It's a life and death situation.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dharam

You wrote
"Baseless allegations such as blaming master for any mistakes by his relatives is wrong."

I'm sorry Dharam but the incidents that are now week documented not only involve Gurindar but RSSB as well.

They are evidence. A court can determine a verdict.

There is an extensive basis for the allegations of embezzlement, fraud, conflict of interest, nepotism and cronyism.

These have been tried extensively.

Your comment did not honor the evidence. You may draw different conclusions, but if you deny simple factual evidence, there really is no basis for dialogue.

You may talk at others and over others, but if you wish to communicate, it is best to talk with others. And naturally listening with respect and sincerity and part and parcel of that.

[Spence Tepper]

Just to provide easy access to the facts, here is a summary and links to the evidence

Gurindar sold an RSSB charitable hospital, and all its acreage, to himself, into his private equity company, RHC, run by his son.

https://www.cnbctv18.com/views/the-devotion-of-the-singh-brothers-of-fortis-runs-deep-into-their-businesses-63575.htm

And in this legal document, where a construction company is suing RSSB and Fortis, it is confirmed.

https://indiankanoon.org/doc/87320658/

Worse, we learn that the contractor was hired to build a new RSSB hospital to replace the old one. But once the old hospital was demolished, Gurindar, through RSSB, sold those 200 acres of property to his private for-profit firm, Fortis, and build a specialty hospital, not a charitable hospital. There were no community or public hearings about this. The contractor who sued RSSB claimed this switch was done "in a clandestine manner."

And we read of the myriad companies Gurindar has placed family members, including his wife, into principle roles, siphoning illegal loans from Fortis into these through the Singhs.

Here's some additional links to some of the stories in the business press:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-08-16/billionaires-and-the-guru-how-an-indian-family-lost-2-billion

https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/the-hub/the-baba-singh-brothers-and-the-squandered-rs-225000000000/story/281437.html

[Spence Tepper]

And in this extensive expose, brought forward by Brian and colleagues, the link directly to Gurindar and his wife, as well as some RSSB board members who formed Prius Real estate investments, which received loans siphoned by the Singh brothers while at Fortis, where Gurindar's wife is also a major shareholder, is detailed...

http://hinessight.blogs.com/files/singh-brothers-story.pdf

[Bombay Blonde]

... can a sane voice out there just give me a blog-slap for my polite attempts with the RS Looney Brigade ?
I really want to be empathetic ... but, but, but ...

" Baseless allegations such as blaming Master for any mistakes by his relatives is wrong. "

Dharam, you have proved that being indoctrinated has no limits.
You have proved that the truth is so evident that you have resorted to denying the very existence of it.

[Jesse]

@dharam, ahead or behind. Nobody cares. Cultures and peoples come and go.
The point is that Gurinder was caught in unethical acts and so many are saying we should stop discussing it or calling them "baseless" as you have.

The accusations are not baseless. Some are confirmed. Everyone's gonna keep talking about your guru and investigating whether or not it hurts anyone's feelings. Get used to it and expect rude replies every time you request an end to inquiry and discussion.

[One Initiated]

"Baba Brian Hines Ji Maharaj,Truth Wale of Dera Sacha Salem"
he he - had a laugh :D

Dharam, with this comment, you've made this post/page worth reading.

[Jasmine152k]

Can't you all stop please? 😭🙇🙏
This discussion is baseless. If radhasoami follow the wrong path according to you then let them. If atheists don't want to believe in spirituality, let them be. Can't we all mind our own business including me. It was the biggest mistake of my life to have read this. I wish I never did. I really don't give a damn about whatever fraud happened. All I know is that I have no one else. No reason to live. Without him I really wouldn't have survived all these years in a broken family. You wouldn't know but I do because he is the only family I have and the only one I can trust. Can't you elders go a little easy on us kids. I really hope that one day you come across the truth and that day you feel the guilt of what you did to me and all the other followers. I am not perfect and he accepts me as I am so why can't I accept him as he is? I will and I will love him till eternity. I really wish you could get in my brain and see what I have seen. Feel what I feel. Know what I do. If you think he is a false guru then why is it wrong? No atheist or normal human being loved me and tried to save me when I was about to take my life. He did. Fake or not perfect or not? As long as it is him I will live for him. So stop trying to tell me the reality you live in because I prefer to live in what you call fraud. It really makes me so so sad to see people I should be looking up to and learning from fighting like this and trying to force their ideals on each other.May god bless you.

[Suspence Trapper]

Spence its GurindEr not GurindAr.

....Bombay Blonde, nice comments.

[Jesse]

Using an A would make it a more consistent transliteration, "suspense." Same with Panjaab instead of Punjab which westerners often call Poonjaib because of it.

Jasmine152k, get off the internet if you can't handle it. Nobody is going to stop investigating Gurindar from Poonjaib.

You've never met the guy so don't expect much from the trust. People say the same things about lady gaga. "She saved my life."

[Appreciative Reader]

Quote Spence : http://hinessight.blogs.com/files/singh-brothers-story.pdf

That article presents a complete picture of the financial interests of GSD's family. Impressive!

All of these details about RSSB are of only peripheral interest to me (unlike the RSSB faithfuls and ex-faithfuls), and I haven't really been going too much into the details of these unending exposes. I suppose I must have missed this link : I suppose this is something Brian must have published some time, given that the PDF is of a CotC link?

Anyway, thanks for posting this. An interesting read.

[Jasmine152k]

Ur right Jesse I can't handle it. When I was about to commit suicide because my father no longer wanted me, I saw his love for me. I've never met the guy? Indeed I haven't but when I was disappointed with my life and asked him to forgive me for being so weak and he did. Thousands of people in the satsang but it felt like he was talking to me. Specifically telling me it will be alright. Tell me should I visit a doctor? Am I insane. Yes I am. I am on medsfor depression and anxiety. I hope you fall in love with someone just like me. I hope at least for a fleeting moment god shows you the truth so you know what you took away from me. I can't handle it so I will get off the internet. Thank you for your care and concern. I was an idiot to believe that for once someone will understand me. You are no different from my father. If I am weak I don't deserve to live right?

[Sleepless in Seattle]

Hi Jasmine,

You indeed deserve to live and thrive. We are ALL weak at times. And no one here can take anything from you unless you let them.

Continue to do your practice and enjoy the RSSB faith & community as you are getting strength from these. Meditation, faith and community are powerful things.

However, people are also free to discuss any RSSB wrongdoings and work through these topics. Many people are impacted by these events and are trying to sort it all out. You must respect their needs as well.

My advice would be to stop reading this blog as the discussion upsets you. Better to meditate.

Have a great day, and stay strong!

[Bombay Blonde]

@ Jasmine : Being weak is human, but don't let it define you. You have been brave enough to come this far, and you have it in you to tide over whatever it is that has caused you so much pain. All of us are capable of turning our lives around. For the moment, spend time with your real life friends and don't read stuff that causes you so much grief, especially if you cannot handle it. Take care of yourself, you are stronger than you think you are.

[smita84]

good pointers for those who are seeking to heal after involvement with radha soami satsang dera.
My husband has had a hard time disengaging. blessings to all who are in the same boat

[Jesse]

Jasmine. If something is helping you, then don't go out of your way to listen to people who don't believe in the same thing.

Being on this site is like being a recovering alcoholic in a pub. Makes no sense.

[Brian Hines]

Vicky, you said that this blog was created for the sole purpose of criticizing RSSB. This isn't correct.

Actually, I started it in November 2004 after the re-election of President George W. Bush, who got a lot of support from the religious right (conservatives) in the United States. Mixing religion and politics bothered me so much, I wanted to start a blog about churchlessness.

When I started Church of the Churchless I was still a RSSB devotee, though I had some doubts at that time. If you read my early posts, you’ll see this reflected in what I wrote about. Those posts mostly were about subjects unrelated to RSSB, though a few were.

I enjoyed writing "God's here, but I've got to go" early on. See:

http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2004/11/gods_here_but_i.html

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jasmine!
The inner support you received is real. Believe in that.

But keep in mind the Master at best will connect you to the Spirit.

And if one teacher has flaws, that does not reflect in any way with the spirit.

We all have flaws.

So all that Baba Ji can ever do, at best, is connect you to the power of the spirit within you.

So long as you are making good progress there, continue.

No better Teacher can do any more than that.

If you find that you have reached the limit of what Baba Ji can do, you are most welcome to investigate any one else.

Where there are photocopies, there is an original.

And if you have a photocopy in your hand, do not dispair. It also serves a function.

And your faith should be strengthened that the original is also there, when you are ready for it.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jesse:

You wrote:
"Jasmine152k, get off the internet if you can't handle it. Nobody is going to stop investigating Gurindar from Poonjaib.

You've never met the guy so don't expect much from the trust. People say the same things about lady gaga. "She saved my life."

Jesse, I'm not sure I would like you very much. And there are things you and I do not agree upon.
But for whatever reason when I read what you write I can't help bursting out in laughter.

You have a wicked sense of humor and timing.

Humor is a universal language. Where spirituality has failed to bring the world together, humor succeeds in an instant.

Thank you!

[AJ]

Here are some questions -
(1) Is every Master a PLM? or is it possible that a light or sound Master is an Astral Master, Causal Master or Par Brahm Master?

(2) Could an Astral Master/Causal Master give significant inner experiences? They are operating under the Kal/Mind domain after all and should be able to give significant "inner experiences" generated by the mind.

(3) Could an Astral Master/Causal Master bi locate? Doesn't anyone who reaches the Astral stage acquire the possibility to bi locate? So, can we merely trust similar outer experiences?

(4) Does a PLM always appoint another PLM? or is it possible that a PLM can appoint a non-perfect Master?

(5) Do successive PLMs always take birth in the same family?

(6) How do we identify a PLM? Are we capable of identifying a PLM? How will we recognize a PLM?

(7) Are feelings/emotions generated from lower chakras (heart)? How do we tell if we are operating from lower chakras/our Mind versus our Soul?

[Arjuna]

@ jasmine ! I read what you wrote - I really hope you read this.

Stay strong I myself come from a very bad history with no family and yes I found a way forward but to do that you must believe in yourself ! You have as much right to be here than anyone and state your case and feelings and I’m sure Brian would agree!

Bombay Blonde wrote a beautiful blog to you and I agree we are all weak but we have strength also - if Master gave you strength I am sure the Lord will give you strength in the future.

I become a solider as it was my only way out - it started as a selfish endeavour and as soon as I saw the suffering caused by some - it became a mission to serve and protect the weak and those who could not defend them selves - to me that’s my seva.

You are stronger than I ever was or will be! Believe in yourselves - and ignore the idiots who write offensive things. They are children or as I call them key board warriors - you are a real warrior more so than me - for being honest and open. That takes strength!

God bless and believe in yourself.

All the very best

Arjuna

[Arjuna]

@ Brian - please post my reply to a certain lady here - it’s compassion

[Brian Hines]

Arjuna, I'm not sure what you mean. Wasn't your reply just published above your comment asking me to post your reply?

[Arjuna]

Sorry Brian - I thought it hadn’t come through. My fault. Hope you are well and thank you.

[Sk- Ug]

My RSSB brothers/sisters, I guess it's best not waste time with the blogger for that's his new job- to blog! But rather put all the energy in our real work... For what do we have to worry about the blogger???!!! - Nothing at all if u ask me. Let's continue listening to the Sound and seeing that Light and we shall be there with the Ultimate Being, our Lord! And let's not forget to always be a good example to others... Let's not talk with our mouths but let our actions talk for us!

[Brian Hines]

Sk-Ug, just to keep things factual here... I've been blogging since 2003, so this certainly isn't a new thing for me. And it isn't a job, it is a labor of love, to speak the truth as I see it. I have earned exactly nothing during the past 15 years from my blogging (I now have three blogs, this one plus HinesSight and Salem Political Snark).

[Spence Tepper]

Hi AJ
. Excellent questions.

Swam Shiv Dayal Singh in Sar Bachan points out that gurus in the first and second regions of Spirit all thought they were perfect, and the lord of that region was God, and there was nothing beyond.

And so did their disciples.

As for question 5, Maharaji didn't appoint Gurindar to be a perfect Master.

He appointed him to continue the work as the organization's head, to initiate people into the teachings of the Spirit.

Subtle difference.

[Vicky]

@Jasmine,

Only you know what it’s been like to walk on your journey of life and only you know what the Master has done and will continue to do for you. He will always provide guidance, love and heal those under his protection and trust me, if it is only he that you have in your life- it is enough.

Stay blessed and keep well.

Lots of love, blessings and good wishes.

Vicky

@Brian- Ah, I see, thank you for the clarification. Didn’t know that.

[An EX disciple]

Sk - Ug says let's not forget to always be a good example to others... Let's not talk with our mouths but let our actions talk for us!

Very good advice, that you might perhaps give to your own guru. His actions are now talking for him and what they are saying is its okay to borrow a lot of money and then not return it when the people who helped you really need it. Your gurus sons are now rich, while his nephews are poor. is it a good example? be honest

[AJ]

@Spence
Thanks for all the information.

Do you remember which section of Sar Bachan talks about the gurus in the first and second region? I would love to re-read it.

“As for question 5, Maharaji didn't appoint Gurindar to be a perfect Master.”
This is probably true. Why do you think Maharaj Charan Singh bowed to GSD at the Dastarbandi (after GSD was “appointed” as the new Master)? I was just curious what could be an explanation for that act.

Do you think GSD is an Astral or Causal plane Master? Even though Astral and Causal plane Masters are not Perfect but compared to the ordinary humans on the physical plane they are not something to be scoffed at. That can explain, at least from Sant Mat perspective, some “inner experience” experienced by initiates and some bilocation reports related to GSD. Also, can explain some flaws like interest in Materialistic side of things. Perhaps, he was “appointed” to cater to the desires of the Indian Sangat which is, I think and I stand to be corrected, predominantly materialistic – marriages, jobs, better life, etc. Astral/Causal plane Masters are best suited for fulfilling those desires because PLMs are mostly concerned with winding up of the Karma and taking the soul to Sach Khand. They don’t want initiates to have a cushy life because then they would not be interested in going back (Just some thoughts based on my limited understanding). Thoughts?

Do you know or have any information about the Sound experienced by initiates of Maharaj Charan Singh and GSD? (I presume it is not discussed much because of the ordinance related to not sharing inner experience). I was just curious if some initiates hear the pulling sounds (bell or higher that pulls the sound to the Astral self or do most of the initiates merely hear some physical sounds (such as blood flowing in the arteries, etc.) or tinnitus and mistake it for Shabad?

[AJ]

For those seeking advice on how to deal with news that their Master may not Perfect but believe that Path may be perfect even though their Master is not, from Sant Mat Perspective, keep on seeking the Ultimate Truth and a PLM will find you (Provided you are fed up with the cycle of birth and death and seek the True Home).

Based on Sant Mat, when a chela (disciple) is ready, Guru Appears (NOTE - It doesn't say you will find a Guru)