Sheena's "Memoirs of a Seeker" throws light on Gurinder Singh Dhillon

After someone told me about a book, "Memoirs of a Seeker," that described a woman's relationship with a guru, I purchased the Kindle version.

Because I'd been told that the guru was Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the leader of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), an India-based religious organization that I was a member of for 35 years, I was perplexed that Sheena, the author, apparently never mentioned the guru's name, from what I could tell from a quick browsing of the book.

But the person who recommended the book knows Sheena (not her real name), and separately another person emailed me with some mentions of the book, further confirming that the guru is indeed Gurinder Singh, and the ashram is Dera Baba Jaimal Singh, the RSSB headquarters in the Punjab.

I haven't read the entire book.

I've just looked through the parts describing Sheena's initial infatuation with Gurinder Singh and the RSSB teachings, which led to a massive disillusionment when, after a lot of personal contact with the guru, she realized that he was just a flawed human being, not a "perfect master."

I invite you to buy the book. I was impressed with how clearly and honestly written it is. I found no reason to doubt Sheena's sincerity, nor her accuracy. Here's how her book ends. (I'm sharing screenshots, because it isn't possible to copy text from a Kindle book.)

What follows are some additional screenshots of portions of the book relating to her time as a Gurinder Singh devotee, and a sewadar (volunteer) at the Dera. I'm sharing these excerpts because I want to stimulate people to buy Sheena's book, and I'm pretty confident that she wants her story as widely known as possible.

I've added some comments of my own after each excerpt.

This is a really weird story. It reminds me of the "Me Too" movement in the United States, a groundswell of women speaking out about sexual harassment in the workplace (and any place, really).

It sounds like India hasn't gotten on board with the Me Too and Times Up movements, or at least the Dera hasn't -- because Gurinder Singh's concern was with how he would be viewed, not with how Sheena would be seen, or whether the accusation that the guru "chased" a young female disciple had some truth behind it.

In this excerpt Sheena mentions an incident of a woman being molested by a male sewadar that Gurinder Singh knew about, but ignored. She also talks about the hypocrisy of the RSSB teachings saying one thing, while the reality of how things operated at the Dera was quite different. 

Sheena got to know Gurinder Singh and his family much more intimately than most members of RSSB. Given the guru's shady financial dealings, as detailed in a recent Bloomberg story, these observations about how Gurinder Singh changed after gaining his new-found wealth fit in with what I've heard from others. 

"Sweeto" refers to the guru's wife.

This is a beautiful, and brave, critique of how the atmosphere of spirituality that used to permeate Dera Baba Jaimal Singh (I visited for two weeks in 1977, when Charan Singh was the guru) has been shunted aside by a steadily creeping materialism.

Another brave and truthful observation by Sheena. What went through my mind after reading this passage was, "The guru is a jerk!" Also, sexist and, as Sheena says, a very ordinary human. 

Sheena is correct: power and wealth do corrupt. Gurus such as Gurinder Singh Dhillon aren't immune from their allure. Thankfully, Sheena saw through the guru illusion.


Sheena says that she found God, but not through the guru -- who was an impediment, not a means, to divinity. She is grateful, though, for her experience with RSSB and Gurinder Singh. Often it takes following a wrong road to get on the track of one that leads where we want to go.

For Sheena's full story of her seeking, and finding, get "Memoirs of a Seeker." I've just scratched the surface of what is in Sheena's book. 

Comments

[Jesse]

More conjecture from a woman who became disillusioned because she was too lazy to meditate enough in those 25 years of service. How ungrateful she is to the master who only treated her bad to wake her from her slumber of worldliness. She obviously failed the master's divine test.

She talks about the master's wife having gator skin bags, but did she eat the alligators? No, so there's no karma involved. We all need leather shoes and other goods to survive in this world. Sounds like this woman was just jealous because the guru treats his wife well and they can afford luxury goods. Karma.

My guess is that she's been paid by anti-guru parties and isn't being honest, but if she is serious, I'd advise that admit her wrong doing, apologize to guru ji, and get back on the path as soon as possible.

Life is too short, and only the master can provide the bani to pull us out of darkness and samsara. Don't waste precious time on grudges with god on earth.

haha j/k sounds like the guru is a dick

[Osho Robbins]

blind belief and faith never leads to truth.

most of us find this out the hard way.

I too spent the earlier part of my spiritual journey looking up to the various gurus I met.

The Sant mat teachings create that feeling because the master is considered sat purush come down to earth.

However, Baba Gurinder has changed that in his new version of the spiritual journey.

He tells people not to put him on a pedestal. They continue to do so.

I get criticized for the way I speak to him (as I speak pretty directly) by many of his followers.

Many think I am arguing with him. But I am just asking him to comment and engaging him with possible objections. Many consider that dis-respectful. I don't

People who worship him, or consider he has some divine powers and the same people that are expecting him to show up at the time of death to take their soul to inner regions.

Sheena had to drop those ideas and the only reason she could do it was because she had a closer connection with him than most people will have.

Otherwise most of the followers cannot afford to drop those ideas because once they drop them, who is going to come at death to save them? Most followers hold onto that hope which is why even when he says he us not coming - they don't believe it even for a minute.

They believe he is just saying that to motivate them to meditate, but he will still come at death.

[777]

IQ_dull_Shame to those . . accepting this hearsay but 'welcome' attack
without RSSB
without dates
without proof
without names
without locations
false
not even circumstancial evidence

So Brian better find a third slandering story
to print in PDF
a few times
calling it a book

777

[Sarah]

All you have to do is look at the pictures of Gurinder over the years to see “proof” of his change. He hasn’t had many taken but in the first he was nervous and unsure of himself, in the second he was comfortable and happy, in the third/forth he had no light left in his eyes. And the last picture taken of him under an archway at the Dera... well, all you have to do is expand the picture and look at his eyes. Truly negative energy emanating from the windows of his soul.

He’s very fortunate that hell has frozen over. I also read the book and it’s in line with many dates if you can solve simple pre-algebra word problems.

444

[777]

Our ( both of us here in France ) radiant View of HIM, seeing GURINDER
24/7 inside of us
couldn't change

I see this as parallel to Brian's refused 1991 book story,
and see what hostile effect this had in this group

Recalling it in a chapter here , Brian couldn' even use
the "I did such & so" . . . but it was someone else

Charan had also mainly ladies approaching him
at night for Self gratifications

and we all know how disappointed Egos can react

This 'book' could have been written by anyone for revenge / money

777

[Jesse]

777 your powerful imagination is great, but you're a dangerous person. People like you become "fall guys" when bad things happen because you're so easy to manipulate. Just like the Bloomberg story and how everyone took the blame for Gurinder's wrong doings, you'd do that too. Maybe the mafia is hiring.

You believe all the hearsay in RSSB books to such a degree that you're willing to lie to yourself about seeing glowing Sikhs inside your head, but after many repeated stories from people who know the real glowing Sikh that you fantasize about in your head doing bad things in real life, you refuse to accept it.

The glowing inner sardar knowingly sold dangerous and dirty meds to people. Being rude to a lady is small beans. He's a fraud, and so are you and anyone else still not ready to deny his divinity.

I wish my initial comment had gone through. It's so easy to predict how believers will respond.

[Marko]

Jesse do you think you can practice suratshabd yog further by yourself if one is liking it? Example i like ashtanga vinyasa and is really doing great to my body but i never liked and even listened to Jois i just learned it myself..i mean i am autodidact on many things and i like it like that. Peace

[777]

Who today has felt all seconds happy, sublime, as in Adi Granth ( paraphrasing ) :

"Those, . . who hearken to the Word, are the Creation's Cream
and the whole world is in blossem and bloom to them"

There is no fault in HIM

777

[s*]

Holy shit..

[s*]

So good that she found God..

I am very happy for her that she has her Love found inside herself..

I understand..

Same with me.

Maybe we needed the path to find out that it was always there right inside our ownselves.
That we do'nt need an out guru.
s*

[Brian Hines]

777, and other true believers with their heads in the sand, I've heard from several people who know Sheena and have verified several of her disturbing stories about Gurinder Singh from other sources.

I realize that it is difficult to accept the truth. Truth requires facing reality head-on, which can be tough, while religious fantasies are pleasant dreams, tempting to embrace.

It is much better to choose truth, though, because reality is all that will sustain us. Our illusions are too shadowy and ethereal to truly satisfy.

[Sarah]

I foresee a #metoo happening here... I’m sure there are many more stories like hers, but most people are afraid to speak up for numerous reasons. I appreciate Sheena’s courage very much.

[Sarah]

Gurinder is no ordinary man. He’s a spiritual vampire.

[Arjuna]

@ Sarah

Gurinder is no ordinary man. He’s a spiritual vampire.

Please explain the above?

[Arjuna]

@ Brian. Hello and I hope you are well?

I have been sent from the year 2056 in a military experiment to help you protect you from you in this time.

After reading the above you are probably laughing. You see on the Internet one can say anything:-)

This woman Sheena needs to come out and your sources need to reveal themselves - otherwise as much this story may be true. There is no evidence without the main actors making an experience.

Sorry buddy - just saying it as it.

[Brian Hines]

Arjuna, as noted in a previous comment of mine, I've gotten confirmation of several of Sheena's stories about the guru from people who have spoken with others who had knowledge of what happened between Sheena and Gurinder Singh Dhillon.

I know people who know Sheena. Do you? What evidence do you have that what she says is untrue? Sheena has changed her name to protect her privacy, as many people on the Internet do. She may also have altered bits of her story to protect her identity. That isn't unusual.

What I find astounding is that true believers are eager to believe supernatural fantasies without a trace of evidence backing them up, but they aren't willing to believe a woman who wrote a book about her experiences with Gurinder Singh and life at the Dera -- who is a real person known to others who have confirmed her identity to me.

Sure, everything on the Internet, or in life, should be questioned.

But Sheena's story fits with numerous other stories about how the RSSB guru has been behaving, so her story has a lot of credibility. Doubters, on the other hand, are motivated by their desire to continue to believe in the RSSB teachings, even though Gurinder Singh himself has said that those traditional teachings aren't true, and he acts in ways that are contrary to those teachings.

If you're skeptical about Sheena, then you should be REALLY skeptical of gurus who are considered to be God in human form and have mystical/supernatural powers.

If you read Sheena's book, you'll find that Gurinder Singh doesn't even normal human common sense. He advised her to sell her home at the height of a New Delhi real estate market, after which it crashed. Then he advised her to invest the sale proceeds in the stock market, which then proceeded to drop.

[Jesse]

Arjun, there are secret anonymous witness testimonies used in court trials. Knowing who this lady is isn't important.
We already have evidence of similar behavior from others such as Gurinder throwing a book manuscript across the floor in anger, Gurinder asking if "girls around here like to f***" and other choice guruisms. That last one is scary in light of the possibly tens of thousands of rapes of underage British girls by non British men that were covered up.

Point is, this book merely serves as more evidence of what we already have reason to suspect is true. Even if it were all fiction, it's nothing more than highlighting what we already know.

We'd maybe need more evidence in a court case, but to dismiss any claims of this man's moral perfection and godhood there's sufficient evidence as it is.

[Arjuna]

@ Jesse and Brian - fair points from the both of you.

Perhaps its my desire to know the facts and details of a hostile situation due to my military training and missions which make me ask these questions. But that is just me.

However, I do not know this woman and nor do I know the sources you know Brian.So I give you that. Yes agreed if she came out she may become a target....etc. So probably not the best of ideas:-)

Not a criticism but just stating my viewpoint.

[Arjuna]

@ Brian

*If you're skeptical about Sheena, then you should be REALLY skeptical of gurus who are considered to be God in human form and have mystical/supernatural powers.*

I only trust my team as we would bleed for each other- I trust no one else. That includes Sheena and Men purporting to be Gods! And yes I do have trust issues with people in the outside world but that's my demon:-)

[Jesse]

"He advised her to sell her home at the height of a New Delhi real estate market, after which it crashed. Then he advised her to invest the sale proceeds in the stock market, which then proceeded to drop."

Doesn't it also say somewhere in these snippets you provided that the guru had racked up tons of personal debt? As is confirmed with all the family business drama in the Bloomberg article, a large part of their strategy was to take on massive debt to fix bad financial decisions, so that's just one more thing that adds up.

My hope at this point is that Gurinder's biggest vice is greed, and not any kind of perverse lust. With all these worldwide sex scandals going on in the secular world as well as the religious, I'd hate to hear that Gurinder was part of something in that sick world, especially if it involved kids. So far it doesn't seem that way, but if disciples are hiding everything else, what's to say they wouldn't hide more vile secrets to protect their master? They've done it for Afro Sai Baba and many others.

[Jim Sutherland]

Arjuna writes,.....”I only trust my team as we would bleed for each other- I trust no one else. That includes Sheena and Men purporting to be Gods! And yes I do have trust issues with people in the outside world but that's my demon:-)”

Me: You can trust me, I will never lie to you. You might misinterpret what I say, but I never lie to ANY serious Seeker that I can help to escape the Matrix of Kal. Finding another soul that won’t lie to you is very difficult to find, any where in the world, these days.

I won’t bleed for you tho. When the fight breaks out, I’m too old to fight and too fat to run

😇
Jim Sutherland

[Arjuna]

@ Jim lol

I salute you Sir!!!! I mean. And you can be fat I will carry you any day! I can bench press 150-160 KG so as long as the Divine breathes life into Arjuna- I would carry you!

And no you are not bleeding for me- I will be your shield! Just make sure you know how to make a good brew out in the jungle or desert or where ever are lol. Milk and two sugars and strong please!

[Sarah]

Gurinder knows how to manipulate devotion... spiritual devotion or what have you. I try not to get too much into that side of things as it is subjective. But I would definitely encourage anyone considering becoming a devotee of his to stay far, far away.

Wow, just saw a new pic of the guru posted online... the RSSB/GSD Public Relations army is out in full force! They are working overtime doing damage control to contain this train wreck of cascading... incoming media onslaught. And if you don’t think there’s a powerful crew of PR management for RSSB, think again.

[Arjuna]

@ thank you Sarah.

Where is the new photo if I may ask?

[Marko]

Arjuna you seem to me like well Man. I would like you to train me some day. I can listen to training stories all.day.

[Arjuna]

Hello Marko - What country are you in? If I may ask.

You should join an Army boot camp if you have one in your area- these are usually run my ex military personnel. Basically its Gym training - Army style. And it usually breaks you if you have not got core strength.

[Gus]

Arjuna,

I would love to train with you, I'm still recovering from a serious ailment so I can't lift too heavy but I can still do 1500 push ups in 40 minutes with good form.
I also do tons of Hindu squats like 500 in 10 minutes.

[Marko]

Yes Arjuna you may ask but would rather told you in email

[Marko]

Gus thats quite a feat. May i ask at what age are you able to do this? What else do you train?

[Arjuna]

@ Marko - no worries. See if you can find army training in your country.

I would not be able to train you as I would compromise a lot of things and the plan is for me to go on tour once my injury is gone - hopefully in the next 4 weeks..

Hope you understand.

[Marko]

All is well.

[Arjuna]

Hello Marko

Im 36

[Brian Hines]

777, you're back to making no sense (if you ever were). That's why your comment wasn't published. Stop with the stream of consciousness gibberish and talk as if you were having a face to face conversation with someone. Your comments often sound like the ravings of a crazy person, and no one is interested in reading that sort of stuff -- other than you, i guess.

Sheena has shown a lot of courage in writing her book, and describing several instances of what sure sound like sexual harassment at the Dera.

If you have evidence that what she says isn't true, show it. If you don't have that evidence, then stop claiming that Sheena isn't speaking the truth.

I have zero tolerance for people who excuse sexual harassment, and I also have zero tolerance for people like you who doubt women who come forward with their stories when there is no reason to doubt them.

I'm OK with you insulting me, but I'm not OK with you or anyone else trying to insult or intimidate Sheena.

[Marko]

Me is 40...family guy ..musician who enjoys in other peoples feats and art...i like to learn ...want to stay student for all my life

[Gus]

Marko,

I'm 26 but I've only been training for a few months, I follow a guy named Herschel Walker, he is one of the best athletes of all time. He excelled in NFL, Bobsledding, running and MMA. He basically eats only one meal a day and does 2000 push ups, and 3500 sit-ups a day.
The guy's freak of nature.
I want to start doing MMA, but I've got a tryout with WWE, I'll see how that goes.

[Jesse]

Marko, you asked about doing Surat Shabd Yog without a master in that technique. From what I can tell, inner sound based yogas are pretty much all over the place.

In the video I'm linking to is a Chinese Buddhist talking about one inner sound technique used to contact the "soundless sound" that leads to hearing some sort of sound of heaven, and he never mentions the need for a "perfect living master." The TV show host calls him master but it has an entirely different connotation than that of a modern Indian guru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxQaLcfcavo

[Marko]

Hi Jesse i actually thought if one is already initiatef like rssb..but than goes on by himself without dogma, satsang,guru or theology around rssb..cause i was never that in ..in the whole rssb thing but i always loved meditation because i dug deep...

[Sarah]

@Arjuna
The photo isn’t “official”. It’s actually mixed media, but it has been optimized to appear with the official RSSB pictures in a ‘Gurinder Singh Dhillon’ search online. It’s very flattering... much kinder looking than any of the photos RSSB has released.

Here’s a link that should take you there:
https://goo.gl/images/xdpuC2

[One Initiated]

Sarah,

I have seen the original of that.

This has nothing to do with Dera promoting it or anything like that.

You probably have many reasons to spread fake things,
However I noticed that you corrected yourself that statue is at round about not at main gate.

What you've posted is a portrait by someone
of actually a candid photo of the Master during his external visit.
here is the original one:
http://www.khalsanews.org/newspics/2013/03%20Mar%202013/06%20Mar%2013/Baba%20Gurinder%20Dhillon.jpg

I wish you courage to come back here and correct your non-sensical posts.

[Jesse]

One Initiated,

If I were a member of that cult, it'd be of far greater concern to me if the Guru was hiding sexual assault cases that he was aware of, and not the authenticity of stupid photographs.

If you're trying to protect your dear leader, you'd better start making sure he's not hiding any crimes against kids in the dera, too.

There might be so much more than is revealed in this book. History tells us that it's to be expected actually.

[Jen]

Brian says: "Sure, everything on the Internet, or in life, should be questioned."

I agree wholeheartedly.

Once again, its hearsay, Sheena's version of who and what Gurinder is all about.

Brian says "I've just looked through the parts describing Sheena's initial infatuation with Gurinder Singh..."

Uh oh, don't like the 'infatuation' part.

Sheena says: "Guruji turned to me, raising his voice. 'After sleeping around with so many men, who are you to advise her on marriage?'"

Really! He said that?
There is no smoke without fire.

Its sounding like a woman scorned? Looking for some kind of revenge? Something suspicious about this and I don't buy it.

[Brian Hines]

777, if you keep up your gibberish, I'm going to have to ban you from commenting altogether. Get your act together. Obviously I didn't write Sheena's book, and obviously Sheena is telling the truth about what she experienced. Your religious fantasies are getting to be a bore.

Like I said, I'm OK with being insulted, but I'm not OK with you insulting Sheena. Discounting and challenging what she wrote isn't acceptable to me, as I'm 100% against putting women down who complain about sexual harassment. Commenting is a privilege, 777. Start acting like a normal human being, and not a religious zealot.

Imagine this every time you write a comment: picture yourself sitting in a coffeeshop, talking with the person you are writing about. If you wouldn't talk about Sheena face to face as you talk about her in a comment, then don't say that in a comment. Be respectful. Be coherent. Be clear with your language.

[Jen]

Brian you obviously did not like my comment at 07:18pm or its gone to spam.

[Jesse]

Jen, what do you think about the allegation that he knew of sexual harassment and/or assault and did nothing about it?

It would be the norm for Indian ashrams for there to be hidden sexual misconduct so it's hard to so easily dismiss it.

[Brian Hines]

Jen, your comment went in the spam folder. Please stop criticizing me. I do my best to check the spam folder several times a day. Don't jump to conclusions about me not liking your comment. You're right. I didn't like it, because it was untrue. Here's what I was about to post in response to what you said:
-----------------
Jen, I'm amazed that you'd be surprised at me using the word "infatuation." This is how many, if not most, RSSB initiates feel about their guru initially. Everything is so wonderful, so perfect, so loving. Sheena had the benefit of many close personal interactions with Gurinder Singh and his family. So she was able to see through the facade, the illusion, of the guru that the vast majority of initiates never are able to become aware of.

For your information, I've heard from another person more details about the "sex-shaming" comment by Gurinder Singh. This gives me confidence that the episode actually happened. You may not be aware of how many people share information about what the guru is doing, and what is happening at the Dera. I frequently hear from people with insider info regarding RSSB goings-on.

I realize that you want to think the best about Gurinder Singh, but the truth is more important than anyone's feelings. What Sheena wrote about fits with numerous other tales of how Gurinder Singh has changed after he became infatuated, to use that word again, with money and power. Believe me, there's more dirt to come out about RSSB, I'm quite sure about that.

The coverings are being removed. Truth is being revealed. This is making many RSSB devotees uncomfortable, because reality can be difficult to embrace. It's necessary, though.

[Jesse]

777,
I don't even use a proxy or vpn here. My real name is Jesse. Unlike you, a guy with severe mental health issues who's stuck in a cult, I have very little to hide. You're afraid to tell people what your first language is. I tell people where I live, what my parent's nationality is and anything else I feel like talking about.

Since Gurinder is a public figure, it would be extremely difficult to raise a serious case of slander against me, especially since it's not slander to say that some man isn't God, unless USA descends further and unassimilated people from the 3rd world implement their kangaroo courts here.

But again, I don't know who you're talking about because you don't know how to write coherent sentences in English. Are you threatening to take people to court for slander? That would be hilarious since how can we slander 3 numbers and what seems to be writings from a virus infected bot server.

Do you want people to take you to court? Are you saying we're gonna get taken to court because we've insulted random Indian Glowing Godman? Let us know little guy. I'll give you my I.P. if you want it or think it will help you. Until then, don't forget to take your meds.

Nobody can understand you.

[Jen]

Brian, I was a true spiritual seeker and thought Charan was an enlightened being and now have changed my mind about Sant Mat but would never have likened my original belief to "infatuation".

Its very disturbing to think that there is some kind of misconduct happening with Gurinder and his female followers.

I do appreciate your blog and thanks for the reply.

[Brian Hines]

777, I'm getting tired of deleting your gibberish and insulting comments. From now on, I want you to only post your comments in an Open Thread, of which two are showing in the Recent Posts list in the right sidebar.

If you don't do this, I'm strongly leaning toward going back to moderating comments -- which means no comment gets published unless I approve it.

I don't want to do this, because I realize that most commenters on this blog are respectful both to me and each other. But one bad commenter like you can ruin it for everybody.

I've given you plenty of warnings, but you keep on ignoring them. I'm being quite reasonable to demand that you keep your comments in the Open Thread posts, since you rarely leave a coherent comment on my substantive posts.

It's your choice: either put your comments in an Open Thread, or you won't have your comments published at all, and you'll be responsible for making every other commenter on this blog wait until I approve their comments for publication.

[Sarah]

@One Initiated
Oh... OK. And as my nieces would text—pfff (I’m still not exact sure what that means but they are adorable)

[Brian Hines]

One Initiated, your comment got deleted because I have no patience for people like you who call women's reports of sexual misconduct or sleazy sexual behavior "fake." Shame on you, and shame on every dogmatic RSSB believer who makes excuses for Gurinder Singh and the conduct he tolerates -- both at the Dera and in his personal life.

[s*]

In Soamiji's time there was a woman who sucked his toe and underwent ''shabd''as I have read it.
They used water pipe.
Maharaji did not want become a master because he knew he could not be the one..he had no special spiritual gain.
He played his role very good..but..He did not really like it.
Go from the form to the formless his last words on his photobook.

Then Gurinder came..so different..

[One Initiated]

Well, ofc Brian, it's very clear that you are biased towards those who
resonate with your opinions of being against the Masters.
And well, in a sense you are rightful to do that since you are the owner(tenant)
of this space.
However, this sheer biasing ditches the author-reader relation badly.
There are many many other commenters, the first and foremost these days
is Jesse who has posted so much rotten and ugly stuff since last month
and you've never expressed in similar tone ever.

Save some shame for yourself as well, you will require that badly.
You play a role of a critique,
and what an irony that you can not withstand your own critiques.

If you don't realise, you need to scroll through the comments of Sarah,
who has posted contradicting comments.
Did you realise the above comment of Sarah and the response I added,
do you think what Sarah mentioned in her comment was true ?
And when I responded to it, she chickened out writing absurd.

But yeah, you are still cool with that, because again you are standing
on the same podium.

This sort of partiality is actually disturbing and disgraceful.
Anyways, this is what it is - so cool.

[Arjuna]

@ Sarah

That’s an old photo - been in the web for ages.

[Arjuna]

@ Brian - I appreciate the response you gave me - I myself am conflicted and don’t know to believe in God or not. But I don’t believe in there nothing being there.

However I do agree agree somewhat with one initiated - you are showing signs of being vindicative now. Take that the right way. This is not a support of rssb ad I am saying this to you as human being. You worship Gurinder than most of his followers.

Also be wary that most of your sources will deny or turn away - should Gurinder turn his guns on you - a lot of what has been said is slander. If Sheena felt hard done or if she noticed the serious charges she should have gone further to authorities in India.

Be careful my friend I know her people are like when the sit hits the fan. You will find no one of worthy nite stands with you!

All the best and be good

[Jesse]

777 mentioned fake accusations, which is the only meaningful thing he's ever posted here, but doesn't understand that even false accusations need to be investigated.

The trial by media and public opinion stuff is evil, but so is the immediate denial of even the possibility of something like this happening.

Sexual misconduct is somewhat normal in Indian ashrams. To simply say we should ignore it here is akin to saying that even if true it's ok.

Get out of the cult people. It's made you callous and spiteful.

[Appreciative Reader]

Wow! So finally we move, now, from simple off-the-cuff jokes about tits and butts (which most sane non-religious folks who aren’t channeling some particular theology would brush off as inconsequential), to the real deal. To “sewadars” actually harassing women “devotees”, and the Guru not doing much about it, much like within the RCC hierarchy -- or at least, to definite accusation of such.

Of course, any charge, any accusation, needs to be actually proved, not just simply leveled off. And of course, no defendant is obliged to prove their innocence. Nevertheless, as with the “Me Too” movement, I think we owe to women who come out with allegations of this nature against powerful people, our whole-hearted support (if only provisionally, and conditional to their allegations being proved true subsequently).

Also, GSD’s apparently dismissive and overtly sexually loaded comments against the author -- unless of course there is some context that clearly justifies such a comment, not that I can off the cuff imagine any "context" that might justify so eggregiously disrespectful a remark -- ill suit a so-called spiritual leader.

Of course, “Sheena” makes clear, in the initial excerpt here, that GSD himself is not involved, at least not with her personally. But still, the other things she speaks of are disturbing too.

Does RSSB -- the functionaries there at the top, perhaps the Guru himself -- ever read this blog, I wonder? If they do, I think it’s time they came out with a clear engagement with this kind of serious allegation. Because this goes beyond a simple harmless joke about butts and tits. Unlike simple jokes of that nature, this kind of a serious allegation cannot -- and should not -- be brushed off.

.

Of course, my saying that this “should” be investigated does not actually mean that such will be done, I realize that. Especially when it comes to religions, people are known to go off scot-free with all kinds of misdemeanors and actual crimes that lesser men would go to jail for, with only exceptionally egregious transgressions actually punished. There are sexually adventurous godmen aplenty, and choir-boy-diddling priests aplenty, merrily going about their lives, who bear evidence of religion, across the world, continuing to cloak these misdeeds, even in this day and age.

Should Sheena be reading this blog post about her book, and this comment here, then I whole-heartedly -- if conditionally, since this is after all only one side of the story -- extend my own support, for what that is worth, to her. It takes a great deal of courage to come out against forces so overwhelmingly more powerful than one.

[Mystic]

I smell BS here....if the author had any true evidence she would have put who the guru is...

Read eastern mysticism and you will see they have called out many who surrounded them....they call an ace and ace and a spade a spade when needed.

[Jesse]

"if the author had any true evidence she would have put who the guru is..."

Not necessarily. It's pretty common for people to write memoirs and use pseudonyms in place of real names.

What do you mean "read eastern mysticism?" It's a vast topic. Nobody can read it all.

[Appreciative Reader]

Quote Mystic : I smell BS here....if the author had any true evidence she would have put who the guru is...

Obviously that is one possibility. It could be that you're right, of course.

But surely you see how difficult it might be for a person who's been mired in that environment for whole decades, and many of whose friends and family number among the faithful, to come out and clearly announce their own name as well as clearly denounce the particular "Guruji"? After all these are rich and powerful people, and overwhelmingly powerful in the context of someone's whose social life might revolve around RSSB.

I agree, we mustn't rush to condemn without actual evidence, but surely you agree that this courageous lady deserves our respect and support? If only provisionally?

[Arjuna]

@ question why would the master say to her: “ who are your give advice ” bearing in mind the number of men you have slept with?

Sounds fishy - pardon the pun lol

[Jesse]

Assuming he said it, it could be for a number of reasons. One would be simply to demean her so she'd shut up about something. Maybe she confided in him about her personal life and he used it against her.

Who knows?

People say mean stuff all the time. As always, none of this would be much of an issue were it not for the money, scandals, and the fact that this man is considered to be the pharaoh.

[Juan]

Jen wrote:

Sheena says: "Guruji turned to me, raising his voice. 'After sleeping around with so many men, who are you to advise her on marriage?'"
Really! He said that? There is no smoke without fire.
Its sounding like a woman scorned? Looking for some kind of revenge? Something suspicious about this and I don't buy it.
…Jen, its normal IMO for these Gurus. For me it would not be surprising even if this sort of behaviour was by Charan Singh or Sawan Singh. Knowing these Gurus after listening their satsangs just for few hours a year is difficult.

Arjun wrote:

If Sheena felt hard done or if she noticed the serious charges she should have gone further to authorities in India.

…Arjun, what authorities you are talking about? theoretically yes, but in practice no authority is going to hear her, on the contrary in case of a normal person, the so called authorities would definitely drag that person in some other serious offence which could easily ruin his/her life. Operating an Ashram of that magnitude, needs contacts and ties with the highest governing authority of the state at least, and without donating to the political parties, its impossible, and the Guruji is in the front row. In such situations the only option is to escape.

Jesse wrote:
Sexual misconduct is somewhat normal in Indian ashrams. To simply say we should ignore it here is akin to saying that even if true it's ok.

…Jesse, sadly yeah, Brian’s awakening the public through his blog is definitely a bold step.

Mystic wrote:
I smell BS here....if the author had any true evidence she would have put who the guru is...

…What sort of evidence the author should have? Which Ashram do you know is having a Living Guru, equipped with shopping Mall , school and big houses etc.? None.
Further, if she puts the name of the Guru, do you think the followers of the Guru, or the Guru himself would let her live in peace, especially in India.

[Arjuna]

Or he could see her for what she was 😀

Gods can do that😀

[Jesse]

It's possible. I don't believe it because the ratio of godmen to normal men pretending to be godmen favors the normals, but anything is possible.

There are people who feel spurned and end up turning against their spiritual masters in publishing deals, but even then the stories are generally filled with many truths which otherwise remain hidden. One of those "Amas" had a western disciple who wrote a book about behind the scenes events in the Ama cult, and assuming even half of it were true, it's still far, far more than the cult wants revealed.

Cults are in the business of avoiding transparency.

[Brian Hines]

One Initiated, my bias is toward women who have the courage to speak out about sexual harassment by rich and powerful men, which includes gurus such as Gurinder Singh Dhillon. I am relentless about this. Maybe you live in a country where harassment is tolerated. Here in the United States, our eyes have been opened by the MeToo and TimesUp movements.

As I've noted before, it's amazing that you and other RSSB religious true believers are so willing to doubt the credible accounts that Gurinder Singh ignores sexual harassment at the Dera, while you want religious skeptics like me to unquestioningly accept unfounded claims of supernatural experiences.

You've got things backward.

You should believe women who come forward with disturbing stories about Gurinder Singh unless there is solid evidence to dispute their account, and you should doubt supernatural stories unless there is solid evidence to support that account. Why? Because we know that sexual harassment by rich and powerful men is common, while there is no demonstrable evidence of supernatural experiences.

[Arjuna]

@ Brian - poor men sexually harass women too. So what’s your point?

In fact more poor and the average joe are bonking (fucking and cheating) like mad.

You haven’t been on a dating site as you have been married along time - mate it’s rampant. The rich do it as most women flock to them like STD diseases in a prostitute!!! Sorry for the crude langaunge. Perhaps you need to spend a week or two with me in England - I will show you what poor men and women do!!!

I don’t believe In supernatural crap however I don’t rule out!!!

[Arjuna]

@ truth be told Athiests are the worst as they think they are GOD - fear no higher power. Are stuck up their own arses (intellect) and fuck, take drugs, cheat and do much more. They think they don’t have to answer to anything!!!!! Saying how it is - spend time with me I. London with some athiests!!!

Not backing them up but at least The majority of Gurinders followers lead clean and decent lives. And their eating habits and actions don’t impact the environment. And before you start I know a lot of decent ones!!! Who have made me feel welcome on Christmas Day - compared to atheists!!!!

My beliefs and my opinion from my observations!!! And not from “sources” !!!!

[Jesse]

"their eating habits and actions don’t impact the environment"

There are organic farming methods that are far more destructive than normal conventional methods of raising livestock.

As to the fact that not only rich people do bad things, nobody would dispute this. Bad behavior isn't class specific.The difference is that the rich tend to be able to buy their way out of trouble.

It's not even men who are solely implicated either as we now see with one of the main proponents of meetoo now having her texts leaked wherein she reveals her relationship with an underage boy and that she thinks it's justified.
But there does seem to be an overrepresentation of men in these cases.

[Jesse]

I don't know about your views on atheists, either, Arjuna.

The most religious places I've been are the most corrupt and dangerous, and there's a lot of overlap according to international transparency index too, though I think they're slightly politically biased.

Atheism may or may not be good for society, but I see no evidence that it correlates with crime or other things destructive.

Satsangis seemed decent to me in USA, but there were a lot of hidden scandals and gossip in the community too. Just pretty average overall.

[Jesse]

And sorry for so many posts, but I wanted to say in response to your diet comment that almost all the vegetarians and vegans I've known were atheists. This is just my experiential anecdote. Take it how you want.

[Arjuna]

I was thinking my idea of a master was like that scene in Ben Hur - where charlton Heston falls after a long march being a slave and the Romans won’t give him water.

All you see is a shadow and then a hand with a bowel of water - charlton Heston get given water by Jesus Christ.

That was all my desire and dream to see him as opposed to this bullshit of intellectual atheists, RSSB, Religare, the One, Bloomberg articles, sheenas book, the Singh brothers etc etc etc

All some of wanted was a simple life where we could get to meet the divine and have hope.

Peace to all on here - I’m bored with this now. Time to get better and kick ass so that you guys do not know pain and sleep well at night. Bogeymen do exist until they come across my ilk!

Over and out

[Jesse]

Never apologize to me, Arjuna haha. Have you seen how I write here?

Venting is good, and I don't even necessarily disagree with everything you're saying, but I simply don't have enough evidence to know.

Crush or not, there is a certain fondness felt between ex believers often times. Just as communities spring up around belief, so do they around disbelief. I know I'm always more interested in what ex-satsangis say here than what satsangis say. Even if I disagree with an ex-sangi in general, I know that we've taken a similar train of thought through the belief system to end up where we are and I respect the journey they've gone on.

[Arjuna]

@ Jesse you write cool! And I agree with your sentiments .

[Bombay Blonde]

" After sleeping around with so many boys, who are you to advise her on marriage ? "

He publicly shamed her. Gurinder is really despicable – a thoroughly vile, hypocritical narcissist with mental health issues. Believers, this is your Param Sant Sat Guru being a sexist asshole, an abuser in his own words and otherizing his disciples because he’s too stupid and privileged to see past his own nose. This toxic Guru-mess is unfathomably horrific.

[777]

Hi jesse

How many exers you know now ?
I am Really Curious

777

[287daysleft]

Interesting book by Sheena. Interesting how we go to a guru with the stated intention of letting go of lust, anger, greed, attachment and vanity.

And then leave in disgust when the guru did not assist us in clinging to wealth and good reputation.

[287daysleft]

We go to someone saying we want our ego murdered, then when they proceed with the process we run screaming from the room, calling them a monster.

[Juan]

“We go to someone saying we want our ego murdered, then when they proceed with the process we run screaming from the room, calling them a monster.”

….The mysterious ways of these True Living Masters are beyond the comprehension of human mind.

[Bombay Blonde]

@ 287 whatever’s left ...

If a sexist remark is a spiritual process, please explain how. ( ? ) Sheena most likely confided in Gurinder, spoke of her disappointments with the men in her life ... sex would be just a small part of the larger landscape of emotions. As a RSSB’er, she would look to the Guru for a karmic answer, and solace. It’s plain creepy that the Guru would use a confidential confession to demean her publicly. 287, you sound like a Beas sympathiser, who can’t differentiate between a spiritual philosophy and out-and-out abuse. Save us the mansplaining, please.

[287daysleft]

Bombay Blonde:

Looks like my comment got deleted so I will post it on the open thread. Perhaps most of my comments will go there from now on as they seem to be out of bounds.

[Jesse]

"We go to someone saying we want our ego murdered, then when they proceed with the process we run screaming from the room, calling them a monster.

Posted by: 287daysleft "

Do you use hard drugs? This is the most absurd thing I've ever heard in my life.

[Arjuna]

@ Brian - why did you delete my post on the “atme# movement????

[Arjuna]

@ Brian - the offer of you spending time with me In London still stands - I will show you why women flock to rich men!!! And why they empower rich power!!!

I would open your eyes in the ways of the world you could not fathom.

And yes poor men do sexually harass women - that is why fights break out on weekend nights at nightclubs!!! It’s not just rich men who do the harassing!!!!!

[Arjuna]

@ Brian - and don’t worry I would protect you like you can’t imagine in London. That is my role to protect, serve and safeguard - without too much detail 😀

[Bombay Blonde]

Arjuna ... dude, some of us ( women ) are independently wealthy. Well, I for one am afraid of being freeloaded off ... so, the flocking is on both sides regardless of gender, it’s all about the GBP’s.

[Arjuna]

@ Bombay blonde - couldn’t agree more 😀

[Arjuna]

@ Bombay blonde - please don’t call me “dude” Princess - I am not a Yank (American).

Thanks

[Bombay Blonde]

@ 287 ... it’s what devotees within RSSB look for, especially the women who come to the path after bad relationships ... these are women who have been hurt, mistreated, abused ... lost ladies looking for some balm for their aching hearts and they find that in the comfort of a Perfect Living Master. I personally know more than ten women who have had private audiences with GSD just to confide in him ... to tell him the things they cannot tell their closest ones. This is really how close some followers feel to Gurinder, it’s a fact.

[Bombay Blonde]

@ Arjuna. I was just listening to the Charlie’s Angels soundtrack mate ... lol ...

[Brian Hines]

Arjuna, I recall that your comment cast doubt on Sheena's stories about sexual harassment at the Dera. As I've said repeatedly, I have great respect for women who have the courage to speak out about what men have done to them, especially rich and powerful men like the guru Gurinder Singh.

I want this blog to be a place where people feel comfortable sharing their experiences, especially disturbing ones involving a religious organization. Your comment, if I remember correctly, mentioned a woman active in the MeToo movement who was accused of abusing an under-age male.

I don't want any comments on my blog to come across as attacking the credibility of women like Sheena and Sarah who speak about things they've seen the guru do. I'm fine with some attacks on credibility, including my own, but not attacks on women who speak out. Fairly frequently I hear from women who have a disturbing story to tell about a religious leader, but they're afraid of the consequences if they speak out publicly.

I want this blog to feel like a safe place for them. Your comment struck me as unduly attacking. I realize this is what men do all the time, doubt women who speak up about sexual harassment, but that strikes me as wrong. Strong men aren't afraid of strong women. I'm married to one, and I consider myself a strong man, so I know what I'm talking about.

I urge you to reconsider your impulse to immediately doubt women like Sheena who tell a story about sexual harassment. Instead of doubting, the best thing is to believe them, unless convincing evidence comes out otherwise. Why? Because almost always women have few reasons to speak out, and many reasons to stay silent, so it takes courage to speak out.

[Arjuna]

@ Brian - support Asia Agento too. If that is the case!

You are not being fair and truth be told Sheenas is a crock and bull story! Deal with that! Your hatred of Gurinder is driving you mad!

You clearly have lead a sheltered life and not many women have played you. Perhaps the irony will be that it will be a woman who brings you down. Take care

[Arjuna]

@ Brian - answer this question and don’t be a coward and delete this.

Why do some woman flock to the rock and powerful???? And vice versa to a lesser degree.

[Arjuna]

@ ps Sarah was blogging about a new photo of his on the web. I investigated her statement and it was an old one which appeared to be a photo shopped one! Fake news MAGA!

Lecture her too pal!

[Arjuna]

@ Bombay blonde - I’m not your mate.

My mates are the ones who serve my country with me! Don’t call me that!!!!

[Brian Hines]

Arjuna, you're sounding like an angry scared man. I have more courage than you do. I'm not afraid of women who speak their truth. And don't tell me how to live my life. I'm happy with my life. It isn't perfect, but whose life is?

By the way, I haven't communicated with Sheena directly, but I've heard from people who do. Through them I've been told that Sheena appreciates my fierce defense of her. This is what men should do -- stand up for women who speak out against abuse by rich and powerful men.

I hope one day you will become less angry about women, and listen to them more. Yes, not all women tell the truth, but most do. More, I'd say, than men typically do.

Also, I noted your comments about "protecting me." Thanks but no thanks. I've got a black belt in a semi-mixed martial arts style of karate, and I continue to take Tai Chi classes with an emphasis on martial applications. What I've learned over 25 years of so of martial arts training is that guys who talk a lot about how tough they are, usually aren't as tough as they think they are.

I'm not saying this applies to you. I'm just saying what I'm saying.

[Marko]

....quote Brian

Thanks but no thanks. I've got a black belt in a semi-mixed martial arts style of karate, and I continue to take Tai Chi classes with an emphasis on martial applications

......again Brian
Man who talk a lot about how tough they are, usually aren't as tough as they think they are.

[Marko]

Brian why did yiu delete Sheena is a punkrocker.
It was support for her cause she is a rebel like a punkrocker.
It was a vote for her cause she is Brave.

[Arjuna]

Brian - I’m not scared at all. I serve on the forces and have carried woman and men to safety while the under the risk of Gun fire and me stepping on land based explosives.

That did make me laugh- fair play!

But you are right in that tough men can be weak with respect to lost childhoods and I’m glad you did not aim that at me 😀

I had a lovely wife who served and died on action - she was worthy as a person and I was scared that would happen one day and it did.

I started dating and met loads of woman - let me tell you that I don’t hate them or fair them but I know that a few can make lies up. I’m stressing the point that both man and women can be evil. Have you googled Asia Agenta - the atme movement had to be let down by a woman!

I do martial arts and Krav Maga - to keep me in shape - I know men are weak but not the ones In my team - they would have you for breakfast along with their beer 😀

And yes you did mean that at me as you said I was “scared” 😀 - I’m not scared of women who speak their mind. You challenging me ????????

[Arjuna]

@ Brian - I’m kidding with about the challenge I live that kind of stuff but not with you as I respect you.

I just want you to have your facts right about Gurinder and it not to back fire on you! That’s all.

I’d be more angry if he was not what he was - my parents died of cancer and I used to pray to him so did they to the bitter end! You see why I would lose hope In humanity if it all comes out.

Please understand that- my point for a change.