Open Thread 16 (free speech for comments)

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

And if you want to use this blog's comments as a form of message board, where you have back-and-forth comment conversations on a topic unrelated to a blog post, please do this in an Open Thread. Visitors to this blog expect comments to be related to a post. If you want to talk about weight training (a recent example), or whatever, do it in an Open Thread. 

Comments

[Jesse]

Brian, not sure if you'd want to even if you could, but i might help if one of these open thread links were permanently pinned on the page somewhere.

Often times I get into conversations that should probably drift over to a thread like this but I'm not sure where I'd even find it when you've posted too much for it to be in the recent posts area.

[Brian Hines]

Jesse, it's pretty easy to find an Open Thread in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If I "pinned it," that would draw more attention at the top of my blog's page to a post that isn't about anything I've written, but is full of extraneous comments. So I don't want to do that.

[Jim Sutherland]

@ Arguna, Marcho, Gus and any other young Athletic Work Out Artists. ( you too, Brian! )

Scan to 2:45 in to this Video for the Ultimate Yogi Workout of Enlightenment. Let me know if it works for any of you.

https://youtu.be/BESrdlf-cPg

Take deep breaths, and shake it all out!

Jim Sutherland

[Marko]

Hey i saw this doc years ago...hehe i think my ribs would hurt affter all the beatings.

[Jesse]

Marko I'm continuing this talk here so we don't further hijack that thread about the important book of an ex satsangi.

Asking me might not be the best idea since I believe in nothing other than that I'm here being me, but I can't see what the harm would be in meditating without worshipping a guy who lives a million miles away who you'll never meet. Plus, if you do happen to believe in the general RS and Hindu dogmas, it's said that doing anything related to these masters is beneficial. RSSB even printed something with the old stories about Krishna that said hating him was beneficial because at least you were thinking of him.

If I recall, David Lane is an agnostic surat shabd practitioner. Not trying to put words in the man's mouth, but I don't think he believes in the godhood of Gurinder or whoever initiated him, yet he still claims to do the meditation and he didn't immediately become a frog or hungry ghost as far as we can tell.

I've personally gone back and forth doing the surat shabd meditation over the years and long after I lost faith. Nothing bad happened to me other than that I admitted that I'm an all natural a**hole instead of pretending I might become a saint some day.

[Marko]

Quote Jesse...
..Asking me might not be the best idea since I believe in nothing other than that I'm here being me
________
I respect opinion of others including you.

[Jesse]

777 the sad clown wrote,

"Brian
A coward you are
If a comment is to hot you delete it

Arjuna in battle would kick your ass

Delete this too
I'm going to publish anyway in an interesting
easy to find way

Coward

Of course you cannot meditate

7

Posted by: 777 "

One thing I want to immediately point out is that Brian is over 60 years old, and Arjun is in the military. If Arjun can't beat Brian in a fight, he should immediately retire from his service.

But on the topic of commenting, 777, you never make sense, you're a religious fanatic who wants to at all costs protect the image of your cult, and as can be seen by this outburst, you're not even confident in your belief since you can't let it go and want to force others to believe in you.

As I've asked 10 other times, if you're so deeply enraptured by the life giving sound of the universe that is purported and believed to kill all human ego, then why do you cry when one of your internet comments are deleted? Why is your online expression so important to you that you're now saying you'll find other ways to comment? Maybe it's you who "of course cannot meditate." At least not effectively.

I had a comment end up in spam recently and I mentioned it, but didn't really care. It's back up now, and nobody else finds it funny, but I did cause it was written to mock believers. We might call it a prophecy since I rightly predicted that satsangis would come and say that the author of that book was lying and whatever else.

Thank ONENESS I got out of RSSB. My ego has diminished and I no longer care if people on the internet disagree with me or want to ban me for acting like a childish fool. Join me, 777, in my flight to freedom.

[Jesse]

"HIS DELETING MAKES IT TRUE"

Maybe the 7 in your name indicates your age? To be fair, I understand your pain and I wish that deleting something made it true. Every online rant I'd ever had deleted would vindicate me as the premiere lay philosopher of our era if they were deemed true by virtue of deletion.

"But moreover in this cases Brian is the writer
because the style is identical
I can prove that with modern style algorithm quantum programs"

MODERN STYLE ALGORITHM QUANTUM PROGRAMS

Bro, I don't need any modern style algorithm quantum programs to confidently verify that concoction of randomness as a big ol' hefty word salad.

Are you saying that Brian wrote that book? if so, that'd be cool because I'm sure he gets a lot of emails from disgruntled satsangis who are fed up with psychos like yourself, and their combined letters would make for a good memoire.

A bigger problem we're dealing with here is the incoherence of anything you say. I can't even tell if you're saying Brian wrote the book, because two sentences prior you were talking about astronauts and then you segued into something about Charan Singh kicking chicks out of the Dera.

As they say on English T.V., what are you on about, mate?

[Sarah]

@777
Please share this with Gurinder: “I” (and he would know exactly who I am if he read any of these posts) am not finished... (he’ll know what that means too).

But he should be very thankful that I am FAR MORE FORGIVING than he is. Sheena’s story is one of many (as “Sweeto” also knows).

Yes, the gloves are off.

[777]

@Sarah
HE would know all that Charan will give HIM to know

So keep calm because all this
is on a need to know base

I see no need -

77

[777]

Ok and Thank You Brian Let s GO :

Let start with the deleted texts ( and a little what was it about for coherence)

--------Brian says: "Sure, everything on the Internet, or in life, should be questioned."
I agree wholeheartedly.
Once again, its hearsay, Sheena's version of who and what Gurinder is all about.

If you wouldn't talk about Sheena face to face as you talk about her in a comment, then don't say that in a comment. Be respectful. Be coherent. Be clear with your language.

Brian, I was a true spiritual seeker and thought Charan was an enlightened being and now have changed my mind about Sant Mat but would never have likened my original belief to "infatuation".
Its very disturbing to think that there is some kind of misconduct happening with Gurinder and his female followers.
I do appreciate your blog and thanks for the reply.
Posted by: Jen | August 22, 2018 at 08:26 PM

""""" Imagine this every time you write a comment: picture yourself sitting in a coffeeshop, talking with the person you are writing about. If you wouldn't talk about Sheena face to face as you talk about her in a comment, then don't say that in a comment. Be respectful. Be coherent. Be clear with your language.
Posted by: Blogger Brian | August 22, 2018 at 07:33 PM """""""
I would avoid that yes, . . . because i would hurt her
7
I will even try to attack Amazon for this publication
7

Posted by: 777 | August 22, 2018 at 09:00 PM
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

[777]

IQ_dull_Shame to those . . accepting this hearsay but 'welcome' attack
without RSSB
without dates
without proof
without names
without locations
false
not even circumstancial evidence
So Brian better find a third slandering story
to print in PDF
a few times
calling it a book
777

Posted by: 777 | August 22, 2018 at 02:46 AM
All you have to do is look at the pictures of Gurinder over the years to see “proof” of his change. He hasn’t had many taken but in the first he was nervous and unsure of himself, in the second he was comfortable and happy, in the third/forth he had no light left in his eyes. And the last picture taken of him under an archway at the Dera... well, all you have to do is expand the picture and look at his eyes. Truly negative energy emanating from the windows of his soul.
He’s very fortunate that hell has frozen over. I also read the book and it’s in line with many dates if you can solve simple pre-algebra word problems.
444
Posted by: Sarah | August 22, 2018 at 03:20 AM
Our ( both of us here in France ) radiant View of HIM, seeing GURINDER
24/7 inside of us
couldn't change
I see this as parallel to Brian's refused 1991 book story,
and see what hostile effect this had in this group
Recalling it in a chapter here , Brian couldn' even use
the "I did such & so" . . . but it was someone else
Charan had also mainly ladies approaching him
at night for Self gratifications
and we all know how disappointed Egos can react
This 'book' could have been written by anyone for revenge / money

777
Posted by: 777 | August

[777]

Who today has felt all seconds happy, sublime, as in Adi Granth ( paraphrasing ) :

"Those, . . who hearken to the Word, are the Creation's Cream
and the whole world is in blossem and bloom to them"

There is no fault in HIM

Gossip & Slander
777

_gollem : Please write in the "approved room" not here !!

[777]

Hi Jesse i actually thought if one is already initiatef like rssb..but than goes on by himself without dogma, satsang,guru or theology around rssb..cause i was never that in ..in the whole rssb thing but i always loved meditation because i dug deep...
Posted by: Marko | August 22, 2018 at 03:29 PM

Brian
A coward you are
If a comment is to hot you delete it
Arjuna in battle would kick your ass
Delete this too
I'm going to publish anyway in an interesting
easy to find way

7

Posted by: 777 | August 22, 2018 at 04:57 PM
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

[777]

"""" As I've asked 10 other times, if you're so deeply enraptured by the life giving sound of the universe that is purported and believed to kill all human ego, then why do you cry when one of your internet comments are deleted? """"

Because the around 800
seekers and devotees
following
my somewhat modern explications
of these old truths

"The original far before quantum vibration"
and it's still available to the compassionates

One second of that equals xillions big bangs ( if they exists)

777

BTW
This Sound continues while I 'm rightly complaining

everybody of enough empathy can capture it

[Sarah]

@777
This is pointless.

[777]

Jen wrote :
"""Brian, I was a true spiritual seeker and thought Charan was an enlightened being and now have changed my mind about Sant Mat but would never have likened my original belief to "infatuation". """
-

When I at first was totally above my eyes and thinking_free
and I entered in a 3/6 month adaptation period

It included an unbelievable charming behavior from
everybody I met
Even at 5 meter distance I had a kind of Darshan effect
It was also very very seductive
I had really to battle à la Arjuna with myself

The situ dripped even through the words I wrote
Also must say : it was of course good for my worldly business
No way to avoid that ( if I had wanted)

Meditation ( no thinking + be so awake ) is always cyclic but it WORKS -

777

We are so happy
I'm in the Sound, my wife is in the Light with tremendous universes to explore

Nice to write my heart out

-

[777]

Here is a modest start of saveguarding my words, because one never knows how Brian's promises will stand
https://web.archive.org/web/20180823082658/http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2018/08/open-thread-16-free-speech-for-comments.html

Ofc for those at the Light side
better copy paste me in a text file

Today we are extremely happy again
and that at our age

777

SO MUCH LOVE FOR THE WILLING

[Jesse]

We got one RSSB mental case writing comments non stop about nothing, another weirdo claiming to be morally outraged that someone dared even listen to a woman.

The latter comes from a place where government officials routinely blame things like blue jeans for women being gang raped,murdered and hung from trees. The former still wont answer the question regarding where he's from, but he seems similarly accepting of sex crimes.

I'm no feminist, and I understand the horrible consequences of false assault accusations, but it seems like once you're in a cult owhere the god is male or you're from a very cult-accepting culture,you become completely desensitized and almost want the accusers to become victims.

It becomes like a revenge thing where these people hope this woman suffers because she punched holes in their faith illusion.

Not the first time I've said this, but I would not be surprised to see a riot at the dera some time soon. And maybe a sex scandal involving the buddhu guru will spark it.

[777]

Copy:

I'm almost 100 but still learn
Perhaps this one works

https://tinyurl.com/y7xjuovs

Jesse
Imaging you hve a crush and go with her to yr super band while first
eating your esquise meal in perfect 22° Celsius that you like
Also you just won a million in the lottery and planning to give her a lot

Thats how the Sound vibration makes u feel to the power of 99
as opposed what negetivity does 4 U

Cheers

AaaaH I was pubished . . . should have placed in 16 ( together 7)

777 ( when I talk spiritual )

Posted by: 777 | August 23, 2018 at 06:40 AM

[Jesse]

777, imagine you open a browser on your overpriced lenovo laptop, navigating to this site, and instead of writing gibberish, you make a point that isn't so abstract and mystical sounding that normal people can reasonably discern whether or not you're even attempting to communicate something human.

If the sound you're hearing is so amazing, why are you here wasting time archiving all the things that you write? Things that happen to be the most absurd and stupid things any human has ever written, I'll add. That sound you hear is most likely cicadas, which is why your ego has grown larger than most peoples even after a life of devotion to a glowing sardar ji.

[Jesse]

Appreciative Reader,

You should do a search for "Idiot Yet Intellectual" by N.N. Taleb and also "Small Souled Bugmen." The thread on small souled bugmen on the MPC forums has an amazing description of this class of people in one of the first few entries. Tell me if it feels like you're looking in a mirror as you read those articles. It would have had that effect on me 20 years ago.

Actually, I'd recommend everyone read them. You'll see what generation Z is going to become in response to the evils of bugmanism and you can prepare yourself for this change.

[777]

https://tinyurl.com/y99n7tzc

saved 15 too for as long as the internet will exist
maybe this one is ok

7

[Jesse]

I highly doubt anyone is clicking on any shady links you post, 7.

[777]

"why are you here wasting time archiving all the things that you write?"

Born to do this from the inside ,
like Brian does his part piling books with hearsay
Same as will be my next life

Again
This is only for willing RSSB satsangis
and seekers

777

[Jesse]

Your spiritual experiences are hearsay. Every book written by RSSB is hearsay.
Plus, you won't be born again. You're going straight to eternal flaming hot hell after death. Sorry homie.
I read it in a book by a Indian dude who wears funny clothes, so it's true.

[Sarah]

Something that really, really bothers me about Satsangis (Rhada Soamis as they’re called in India) is that they’re so impressed with their inner experiences. All your doing is tripping through the mind. From the 3rd eye to the crown chakra is the realm of Kal. Why would you go there?? You put yourself at great risk of being deceived and will almost inevitably start using spiritual powers. If you truly believe in this path/journey then you should safely start at the crown chakra and just pray. Meditation is good for slowing the mind down and health and relaxation but these “trips” are dangerous to one’s sanity (I feel like that point has been proven over and over again by living examples). Not everyone here believes that an inner journey is real... however, if you do then you should know that these inner revelries are no more safer than psychedelics. We are no longer living in an age where even starting at the third eye is safe. And when you meditate on a “guru” you are actually giving him your power. He grows with power... the power of thoughts and the mind. If you are focusing on a guru and repeating a mantra, you are actually carrying out some form of “thinking”. Focused thinking but still thinking. Rhada Soami’s practice the Science of the Mind... not the Soul.

[287daysleft]

Bombay Blonde:

"...she would look to the Guru for a karmic answer, and solace."

I guess that's the problem isn't it? A guru is not there to provide solace, he's there to upset your apple cart, to demolish your pride, attachment, self-importance, and every shred of vanity.

I don't know if Babaji is a good guru or not. I'm just saying why go to someone whose stated aim is to destroy your ego and then complain you were humiliated?

If you want to be coddled and pat on the back why leave home?

[287daysleft]

Blogger Brian:
I thought "open thread" was pretty much anything goes. Was my comment that "...a guru is not there to provide solace, he's there to upset your apple cart, to demolish your pride, attachment, self-importance, and every shred of vanity" ... way out of line?

[Jesse]

287, A guru might be there to do the things you mentioned, but not according to RSSB.

And we're talking about a man involved in possible criminal activity. If that's the case, why have a guru when we could just meet a drug dealer who speaks well?

[tucson]

Sarah wrote: " And when you meditate on a “guru” you are actually giving him your power. He grows with power."

-- Way back when I was first learning about Sant Mat and reading Sar Bachan I had thoughts like that. What if the guru knew how to utilize your focused energy for his own gain? Maybe he is some evil entity pretending to be good while he sucks the life out of you like a parasite?

I decided that was too farfetched and didn't go with it, but I did go for the teachings which, if you think about them, are just as far fetched.. way out there. But if you are relatively naive and receptive, the bait is tempting and then you're hooked.

I don't think meditating on the guru actually gives him any power like a garden hose filling up a water balloon, but it does give the idea of what he represents an unwarranted status in your own mind. In this way the guru does have power over you. A follower will go to any lengths to rationalize bad behavior by the guru. This is the case right now as many followers must be struggling with these revelations of possible corruption by their exalted and heavenly Sat Guru who is not looking very exalted or heavenly and, instead, is looking rather mundane and base like say, Bernie Madoff who "made off" with lots of people's money.

[Arjuna]

@ Sarah - I said to Brian - you are becoming like him!!!

You already told Fake news about a photo - I don’t believe anything now!

Take it the right was and MAGA!!! Stick to that.

Do you know if this is all a play and he actually is a demiurge - you along with Brian and many others are pretty much finished- along with me !!!

[Brian Hines]

287daysleft, you're new to commenting here, so you probably don't know that my blogging service, Typepad, frequently puts comments in a spam section that don't belong there. I try to remember to check the spam section at least once a day, and sometimes more. This morning there were about five comments marked as spam that I published. Yours was one of them.

[Gus]

This is the case right now as many followers must be struggling with these revelations of possible corruption by their exalted and heavenly Sat Guru who is not looking very exalted or heavenly and, instead, is looking rather mundane and base like say, Bernie Madoff who "made off" with lots of people's money.

What excuse do you think followers will use now? When Gurinder had cancer people said it was him taking on our karma, of course previous Guru's have had health issues and this was always the excuse that was used. But what about now?

[tucson]

Gus wrote: "What excuse do you think followers will use now? When Gurinder had cancer people said it was him taking on our karma,"

-- If he gets busted for any criminal behavior I'm sure followers will say he is a martyr for their sins. Even now they are probably saying it. I'm sure they think there is a spiritual lesson in all this directed by the guru himself out of the kindness of his heart for the benefit of all devotees entrenched in a quagmire of gross karma. If a person truly believes a guru has the power to take on their karmas, they have placed that guru on a super human pedestal in their minds.. a pedestal of reinforced concrete with a wide and heavy base. It's hard to knock him off.

[Jesse]

Osho made a comment days ago that I didn't appreciate enough. But let's say this does end in criminal charges or other undeniably condemnable actions. What then will these millions of people do? It could break them.

This is another reason why I think classical religions are better, if you need religion. Christianity or Islam can't be taken down if one man goes down. But in guru cults, there's no backup if the leader fails.

[Jim Sutherland]

@Jessie,...we good Ole USA Christians have had our share of juicy scandals as well.

You might be too young to remember Jim Bakkar and Jimmy Swaggart scandals, but I was an Assemblies of God Minister as they were, and both of them were my Mentors before they fell.

I, like other Christians, especially Assemblies of God Ministers were shocked and devastated, when Jim and Tammy Bakkar’s fell, right after their Charlotte, No. Carolina Heritage Complex was dedicated July 4, 1978, and my wife, myself, Daughter and Son were there for the opening Ceremony.

I was heavily involved in my Assemblies of God Ministry, when those scandals happened and we had to watch , as all of the facts unfolded, and the Spot Light was on all Believers.

I resigned from the Assemblies of God Denomination, joined a Non-Denominational Fellowship, graduated Seminary, but never toatally ever recovered from witnessing the scandals.

I left the Ministry altogether, resigned from all Organisations, and thought I found refuge with the Rosicrucians and RSSB,

My heart was the heart of a Seeker, always, and remains the heart of a Seeker.

I will survive, as all sincere Seekers involved with RSSB will survive, in spite of how the present RSSB scandals unfold.

Even Gurinder and the Singh Brothers will survive, with less wealth, bruised egos, but must keep on keeping on, until they love their bodies. One or more maybeven see Prison time as Jim Bakkar did.

Even Jim Bakkar is still doing it to it, ( and still drawing in new young Suckers that don’t remember his former life ).

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/living/religion/article200297074.html

It ain’t over till its over!
Jim Sutherland

[tucson]

Jesse wrote: "This is another reason why I think classical religions are better, if you need religion. Christianity or Islam can't be taken down if one man goes down. But in guru cults, there's no backup if the leader fails."

-- I too feel that Jesus offers the best deal. No boring meditation. No special diets. No pestering servers about lard in the beans or eggs in the muffins. Just accept Jesus as your lord and savior, and you're in. I've got my bases covered.. initiated by a perfect living param sant sat guru and baptized when I was an infant by a Christian minister. I think I'm in hot water with Allah though. Buddha is cool with everybody.

[Arjuna]

@ Jim - hello.

Your response above - you bring sense to it all!

😀

Have a good weekend

[Sarah]

@287
It’s only natural that people seek answers to the meaning of life. Unfortunately, sometimes on our journey tro find answers we run across people who project the qualities they don’t like in themselves onto others. Love doesn’t treat people that way... Baba Ji’s opinion of me and my character holds no weight with me at this point. So, his attempts to do all the guru-ey things you mentioned actually succeeded in making me look for truth and to realize that a truly enlightened being doesn’t break people down but builds them up. The whole guru “crush your ego thing” seems to be very particular to their culture. I have gained a newfound respect for the culture of gentle forgiveness that I was raised to believe in.

Maybe Baba Ji is an excellent “guru”. That is, if a guru’s goal is to make you search for love. He at least did that for me... 🙏

@Arjuna
I’m assuming you had a bad day. 🤔 Hope you have a relaxing weekend...

[Sarah]

Just to be clear, (because clearly I wasn’t clear) I stated about the photo that it was mixed media (an artistic term) and optimized (SEO). That’s all... 🙂

[Sarah]

@tucson
Agreed on most everything you said but I remember what an NRI from my Seattle Sangat shared with several ladies after her visit to Dera from the March/April session 2013. She shared from her hand written notes from a Satsang (naughty for taking notes 😉) that Baba Ji said he could feel a rush of love from us when we meditate on him. He said our live sustains him. He also said “your love sustains me” in a few satsangs I attended as well. That sounds like a beautiful thing to say but it also got me thinking... I don’t know... who knows...

[Sarah]

Obviously I can’t sleep...

@tucson
Also, from my experience, leaving a guru is like leaving a relationship. You look back at the relationship and start analyzing everything over and over and over again trying to make sense of it all. That’s how I feel right now. At some point I may have to accept that it will never make sense.

[777]

@Sarah

Please Lighten UP

Dive in one form of Art f.i. , that might help enormously
also as a preperation for 'NO THINKING'

Y am very fond of Jazz for instance :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcYCgMO5Dcs

Like to hear who likes tghis too
Not very many I guess

77

( is on my YOUTUBE channel ANKHATON
Hear my barack obama symphony too ,
so a part of my anonymity crushed yesse
I played when your father wasn't born :-) )

[Arjuna]

@ Sarah - I will let you off as I like the way you write.

And Brian wrote I had insulted you (he is getting old so you have to take that into account). I did not and the only person I am suspect of is Sheena.

But if it was true in that she is a real person and what she had said was true - I would back her up and the hulk would come come to ask the ones who did that to her questions - and they better have good answers! It would be clobbering time for them!

Have a good weekend 😀

[Sarah]

@Arjuna
Well, thanks...

@777
We have all had completely unique experiences on this path and with Sant Mat. Completely different which makes perfect sense when you consider that we have different karmas. Unfortunately, your “mafia proctors” (I feel crazy just quoting that but I’m trying to make a point) found me. So there. And it took me a while to slay those dragons so to speak... and I’m not even being metaphorical. Some of this stuff is serious. Since getting away from this particular path, those things have gone away. Make of it shat you will... and I’m know you will.

@287
Really??????

[777]

Also what I wrote years ago and
we here should realize what we are talking about :
http://the-reason-for-creation.over-blog.com/article-saint-francis-of-assise-and-the-inception-movie-117162909.html

777

[Jim Sutherland]

Expanding on Scandals, when I said,...” I left the Ministry altogether, resigned from all Organisations, and thought I found refuge with the Rosicrucians and RSSB,”........

After being involved with the Rosicrucians ( AMORC ) for 10 years, another surprising scandal left us all shocked, when the Guru was taken to Court for laundering the Organisations money in off shore banks in his own private accounts!

Half, or more of the Members left, and went with him, when he broke away after being litigated, by the AMORC Organisation, which never recovered a lot of the laundered money.

The other half stayed with AMORC, under the new French Guru based in France, but lost the right to the original Teaching Monographs, which the money laudering Guru won the rights to keep.

As for me, and many others, we left AMORC altogether, and never joined the other dissenting Sects.

Following the $$$$$$$ always leads to Shenanigans by the Tax Exempt Non Prophet Leaders who have control over the Organisation’s income. The Truth eventually is exposed, if there have been any “shady” Deals going on.

There will ALWAYS be, Whistle Blowing, disgruntled Desciples of ALL Gurus that will expose him, or her, when they loose the Guru’s center of supposed attention up on them selves, and they will do exactly as Sheena has done to Gurinder, i.e. write a Book.

No doubt, there will be more books, coming by Authors exposing their real Names, as those Anti Trump Books are showing up on Amazon along with Sheena’s.

But Truth is all good, depending on which side of the truth we happen to have our own attachments tied to.

Its all good,....in the end or in the Big Picture. The Higher Power has it, and us, all under control.

Cheers,
Jim Sutherland

[Jim Sutherland]

http://www.theprisonerofamoorc.com/2016/10/the-rise-of-christian-bernard-to-the-position-of-imperator-of-amorc-has-always-been-shrouded-in-doubt-bernard-who-was-award.html

The AMORC Scandal

Jim Sutherland

[Arjuna]

@ Jim - hello Sir !

What’s your opinion on this scandal concerning the Master. Not Sheena but the money one?

If I may ask. It will blow away my gut feeling and then he will release the Lords demons after all those who... well that is another story for a better day 😀

[Jim Sutherland]

@Arjuna, you ask,....”What’s your opinion on this scandal concerning the Master. Not Sheena but the money one?”

Me: Opinions are like A—holes, .....every one already has one and no body needs two,...but since you ask,....😇

I follow the $$$$$, and the Bible. The Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil. It doesn’t say Money is evil, bur the LOVE of money is the ROOT of ALL evil.

So, following the money, a real Detective needs to trace who is benefiting the most from the expansion of land, Businesses, Donations, Houses, Airplanes, Cars, Helecopters, Travel, Retirement,.....etc.

In the U.S., all Americans are assigned individual Social Security Numbers that allows them to legally work in the U.S. I have had my number since I was 13, when I first worked for a Farmer and was paid.

Have you ever heard of James Bond, i.e. “007”, the Brit with “ A Licence to Kill.” He is quite famous, considering there are still James Bond Movies, and there have been several Hollywood Actors posing as James Bond, 007.

Well, guess what?

They are ALL Frauds and Posers, and I am tne Real “007 James”

Wny? The first three Numbers of my Social Security Number are 007, and my real first Name is James, with the Nick Name Jim.

So, my “opinion” is, Gurinder loves $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, which is the ROOT of all else he loves.

Nuff said.

Cheers,
007 James

[Arjuna]

@ Jim - so the initiation I got has no power behind it?

It’s pointless and leaves me at the mercy of dark forces should I manage to concentrate all my mind energies into the forehead.

[One Initiated]

Yes,
Every father loves the money,
only for the betterment of His children.

Arjuna:
I enjoyed your recent comments
and specially the disguised sense of humour in them 🙃

[Sarah]

Seems like the love of money goes hand in hand with the love of power. Gurinder loves power and admires it in others. He sees mercy/Jesus teachings as weakness. Sometimes people obsessed with power do stupid things in order to maintain their appearance of being powerful. I could have an avatar name like Glitter Puff Stardust because I don’t care about appearing powerful or ever having power over others (although Arjuna is a pretty kick ass name). I think more often than not the “love of money” is more about the love of power... and that’s a whole other conversation.

[Sarah]

And this whole “Godhwani takes the fall” is the dumbest move the Singh/Dhillon team could have pulled in defense of their collapse. If this were a game of chess, they just lost their queen... although part of me thinks Sunil needs to be placed in a safe house awaiting trial.

[Sarah]

Safe House...

[Jesse]

"Every father loves the money,
only for the betterment of His children."

One Initiated, the cult has made you behave like a disgusting creature who has no empathy for humanity. Your evil guru sold medicine to epileptics knowingly. He could have been responsible for their deaths, and you say he acts in the interests bettering humanity?

Do you think the rapes done by the other Indian gurus were acts of grace as well, you animal?

[One Initiated]

Calm down brother, they were not Gurus in the first place.
The whole further discussion and comparison is a wastage of time.

As said by the seniors:
"every inch of every RSSB centre will provide shelter at the time of apocalypse"
Most of us will witness that.

[Jim Sutherland]

@ Arjuna,...you ask,...”so the initiation I got has no power behind it?

It’s pointless and leaves me at the mercy of dark forces should I manage to concentrate all my mind energies into the forehead.”

Me: I already told you, many other times, in other ways, you got the same Medicine as we all got, which are the Five Names, Mantra, along with the Meditation Technique and how to use it, to see the Light, Sun, Moon, Star, and Radiant Form at the Third Eye. Then, the Sound, i.e. Conch and Bell. Revisit Sawan’s Lesson in Spiritual Gems if you forgot how,

But, Hey Soldier, there are no free lunches in Sant Mat, other than a “ possible” taste of Light & Sound at Initiation. After that, its up to you to dive in deep, and start walking the walk rather than talking the talk.

You won’t get much of any confirmation of what your parents and Grand Parents got until you at least, TRY to quit drinking Alcohol, and trying to kill others, ( Soldiering is lethal for Satsangis), etc. If you stay in the Military, you should apply to becoming a Chaplin.

None of us are ever successful of keeping all of the Vows we signed on to, before Initiation, other wise, we would be called Home to Sach Khand immediately.

But you have been initiated in to the Sant Mat Technique, and regardless of how Gurinder is living what life he has left in his body, you should be greatful for what he originally gave you. Use it, or loose it,.......until next life.

Charan never told us to concentrate on HIM, or his physical Form at the Third eye. He said to just look in to the dark with out straining your physical eyes until the light or flickers of lights appear.

The concentration of the photos or physicsl Form of the initiating Gurs came more from Kirpal Singh, and passed down to the succeeding Gurus in his lineage. I know, because Thakar Singh first initiated me, and told us to concentrate on HIM.

I concentrate at the Third Eye looking at the dark until the Star or the swirling Silver White Diamond appear. If nothing sppears, no big deal. I wait until next time, or until it happens. When they do not appear, other stuff appears, such as people, places, and visuals, some most likely, past life memories.

If you go to Ishwar, you will get what you already have. If you go to Rajinder, you will get touched on the forehead with his thumb for a second or two, which “ might” light you up for a second, but then, you will still be on your own to do what you should be doing right now.

Do you want the instructions in Greek, instead of Hindi or English?

I will try to find Charan's Pre Application Instructions in my blog, and copy them here for you to read again, because it appears you either forgot, or looking for an easier way to travel from the Pub to Dsach Khand directly, with out passing thru the Astral and Causal planes.

Again, USE what you were given, or Loose it all, and go back to whete you was at your worst nightmare, or bottomless Pit, where most of us were, when we applied for Initiation.

Salute,
007 James

[Jim Sutherland]

To Arjuna,....Use it or loose it!

Charan Singh's Initiation Application
PURPOSE OF INITIATION
The object of Initiation is to realize God within ourselves. It is not for the purpose of seeking any material gain, or personal advantage; such as better health, accumulation of wealth, or improved worldly relationships. It cannot be emphasized too strongly that this is a meditation discipline, and each applicant is required to set aside a regular minimum daily period of two and one-half hours in order to fulfill the purpose of this commitment to the Master.

Those seriously interested in this path of soul liberation should read widely in the extensive Radha Soami literature in order to very thoroughly understand the essence of the philosophy. Those who decide to apply for the Initiation should do so out of a deep sense of the rightness of the path and an inner conviction that the path is theirs to follow. We should not be influenced by others, not be a victim of the current "fad" of following a guru. To quote the Master, "The pull must come from within. " Further, it should be recognized that this is definitely a life-long discipline requiring effort and struggle. One places one's hand into the hand of the Master, and with the aid of His Wondrous Grace, and the guidance of His Continuing Presence Within, one makes progress on the inner road.

Master says, "This process calls for no change in religion, no shift in avocation or profession, no distinctive garment or the like. The path is as easily trodden by young as by old. The Saints do not make cowards of men. They explicitly enjoin upon all who come under their influence to do their duty by their parents, family and children, friends and relations, the poor and the downcast. Those who love the Creator love His creation, too."

REQUIREMENTS FOR INITIATION
The Master has set forth four requirements which constitute the vows or commitments which are made by a seeker at the time of application for Nam. These are serious commitments and each seeker is strongly advised to sincerely search his heart before applying; he must be sure he thoroughly understands these requirements and is willing and able to live up to them. The Master has asked that these requirements be expounded upon at some length and so the following information is supplied so that the seeker can very clearly understand the nature of the commitments.

I -VEGETARIANISM- THE FIRST REQUIREMENT
The applicant is expected to adopt a strict vegetarian diet, omitting meat, fish, fowl, and eggs (fertile or infertile). Food which contains any of the above must be rejected. This diet must be rigorously followed for a MINIMUM OF 90 DAYS prior to making application, and thereafter permanently.

By "meat" is meant any product of slaughter, including shellfish, fish, fowl, flesh and their derivative products; such as gelatin or albumen. One must avoid unlabeled bakery products or those with vague labels indicating shortening or pure shortening, without describing it as vegetable shortening or butter shortening. Such products very frequently contain lard.

Including the above, one must avoid jello, albumen, animal gelatin, animal lecithin, animal glycerin, and foods without a label clearly listing contents. Most crackers and pies do not specify which type of shortening is used and, therefore, should be avoided. Any product containing eggs, egg whites, or albumen must al s o be avoided.

Eggs are found in mayonnaise and certain other salad dressings, rich ice­creams, rootbeers, sherbets, cookies, rolls, candies, and marshmallows. A careful check on labeling is, once again, quite important.

Even in the taking of vitamins and food supplements, one cannot relax his vigil. For example: frequently fish oil is used as a source of Vitamin A, and some Vitamin D is animal in origin.

Satsangis are permitted to eat all dairy products (milk, cream, butter, cheese, buttermilk); all vegetables and fruits, whether fresh, dried, canned, or frozen; nuts, grains, seeds, cereals, and legumes; also, fruit and vegetable juices. Health food stores carry a large variety of meat substitutes for those who prefer them, but these must be carefully inspected as some contain egg products. However, with each passing year, the number of vegetarians in the United States increases markedly and processed foods of a suitable nature become more and more easily available. One will find no problem in preparing a wide variety of tasty and healthy dishes within the requirements of the teachings of the Saints. Nature's bounty provides us with vast varieties of wholesome vegetarian foods to supply all needed minerals, vitamins, and enzymes in abundance.

The Master says, "To be a vegetarian is not a mere formality in Sant Mat. It is a very vital matter and no exception under any circumstances is possible to this rule."

"In the matter of diet, Sant Mat principles are very clear and I cannot give any advice contrary to these principles. The vegetarian diet is not a mere ritual or ceremony, but it is a vital matter in the teachings of Sant Mat. I also do not believe that there is anything which, if curable, cannot be cured through the vegetarian diet. It is all a question of the right selection of food suitable to the needs of the individual."

"As it is virtually impossible for us to exist in this world without killing, the Saints advise us to go on a strictly vegetarian diet. This enables us to live a healthy life and at the same time collect the smallest possible load, as we are taking life consisting of one element only, in the form of fruits and vegetables. In this way we collect the least load possible during our life span. The Saints tell us that whatever meditation we do daily helps to clear or pay off the load of karma which we would have to pay otherwise for these innocent killings (of vegetables and fruits) that we do everyday for existence in this world. So when our purpose of existence is to attain God-realization, and we try to achieve that purpose by daily spiritual practice, these karmas that we incur daily through the annihilation of vegetable life are automatically taken care of through our devotion to spiritual practice. But if we are not concerned about our destination at all and just to fill our stomachs, we kill or are instrumental in having killed for us fish or fowl or other animals, surely we will have to pay for our evil deeds. And that becomes such a heavy load that we can hardly stand, let alone walk or run. Of course, killing for sport is much worse than killing for food and results in a much heavier load. So we are advised to be vegetarians to collect the least amount or load of karma. We have such a heavy store of karmas, such a heavy load with us already that we should try to reduce rather than increase that load during our life span."

II -ABSTENTION FROM ALCOHOL AND DRUGS- THE SECOND
REQUIREMENT

The applicant must avoid the use of all alcoholic drinks or any substance containing alcohol. Some medicines and many beverages contain alcohol. The Master has indicated that any person who uses alcoholic beverages should allow himself a period of THREE MONTHS of total abstinence before applying for Initiation. During this time he must make absolutely certain that he can live a life without the use of any form of alcohol or substance containing alcohol.

For those who have been using narcotic substances and/or psychedelic drugs, including Marijuana, the Master has indicated that these persons must be entirely free from their usage for a period of AT LEAST SIX MONTHS, and then permanently across the future.

The Master points out that the use of intoxicants or drugs of any kind has no relationship to the inner experience of meditation. He therefore requires each applicant to reject the use of such substances for the rest of his life and does not permit Satsangis to use these harmful substances under any conditions.

Below are some of the Master's comments regarding abstaining from the use of alcoholic beverages and/or drugs:

"Abstention from alcoholic drinks does not need much logic to support it. We all know what fools people make of themselves when drunk, and what follies and crimes are committed under the influence of alcohol."

"Give up the use of alcoholic drinks, narcotics and the like, for they are verily the worst of poisons. They gratify only for a moment. The end is constant remorse and disease. Their use so clouds our vision and so warps our sense of values that we fail to differentiate between good and bad, fair and foul, right and wrong. The result is that we commit deeds that land us in unsuperable difficulties. Alcoholic drinks are truly the mother of all vices. They lead us to evil actions. A moment of pleasure unmistakably weaves a long net of pain and suffering."

"Those who take drugs like LSD or marijuana or deal in them should be clearly told that they cannot be accepted on the Sant Mat Path, unless they give up these things completely."

"I quite understand your anxiety about young initiates, more and more of whom are drifting back to their old ways of moral looseness and the use of drugs. It is very unfortunate that in this present society, morality has lost all value, and the use of drugs has become so common that even respectable grownups find nothing wrong in the use of marijuana. The modern "permissive society" has become the bane of the younger these days. In view of what you write I feel that a stricter scrutiny of the applicants is necessary. Examine them more thoroughly, going into their background, the atmosphere they have lived in, for how long they have been taking drugs and since when they have given them up, the company they move in and their general interests in life. All these will give us a much better picture of their sincerity for following the Sant Mat Path."
{Instructions Written to American Representatives by The Master)

"It has been brought to my notice that in view of the present day unstable social conditions around the world affecting especially the young, a greater check is needed upon the applicants asking for Initiation.

"The widespread use of mind-affecting drugs and the loose moral permissiveness of the present society makes it advisable to increase the preparatory period for such applicants. Those living on meat diets, including eggs, on alcoholic drinks and drugs like marijuana, heroin, LSD and also leading immoral lives (unnatural and unlawful companionship) which Sant Mat does not approve, should assure themselves before applying for Initiation that they have been able to give up all these permanently and can now live strictly in accordance with Sant Mat teachings.

"For achieving this, I feel that an applicant should live on a strict vegetarian diet and be a teetotaler for a MINIMUM PERIOD OF THREE MONTHS before submitting his application. A similar period should be prescribed for those who have been leading a PERMISSIVE LIFE which is not in accordance with Sant Mat principles of morality.

"In cases of those who have been using some sort of mind-affecting drug, an evil so widely prevalent in modern society, this preparatory period should be of MINIMUM OF SIX MONTHS.

"During this preparatory period the applicant will be able to judge for himself whether he will be able to live the Sant Mat way of life and it will also give him a firmer foundation and stability so essential for spiritual advancement."

NOTE: The letter reproduced above is so very important and relates to so many of the prerequisites, that the applicant is advised to reread it in light of the other two requirements-vegetarianism and the standards of morality.
{ Further Instructions
Written to American Representatives by The Master)

"We always like to have experience without working- without doing anything. We want the results, but we don't want to work for the results. So it would be very convenient if we could take a pill and get all the internal experiences, but unfortunately that is not so... The experiences of those people who take drugs differ from each other. But spiritual experiences do not differ from each other at all. All spiritual experience is bound to be the same, though our approach may be different.

"For example, if you drive from London to Edinburgh, your main experience, that is, what you see on the way is bound to be the same, though it varies in that sometimes you skip one scene and you give more importance to another village, but the experiences are bound to be the same for whomsoever travels on that road. But according to what little I have read about this drug (LSD) experiences differ with different individuals.

"Actually, these individual experiences are just of their own mind; they are mental experiences and have nothing to do with spiritual experiences. Only last night 1 heard from an American that there is a book written by some Englishman, who has contradicted the experiences which have been so much talked about by taking this drug. It may give you a little physical concentration, and may put you in a semi-trance, and you may be in a half-conscious state or in a sleeping-conscious state, and you may see something over which you have no control.

"Spiritual experience is something over which we have our own control. We can go there when we want to; we can come back to the flesh when we want to. But with this drug, the moment the effect is gone, nothing is within your control; you are again victim of the senses and become again the same sort of person.

"But spiritual experience is not like this; it develops our soul; it makes us much finer, better humans. We are no longer a slave of the senses. We control our mind, and the mind starts controlling the senses. But by taking drugs, we remain slaves of the mind and slaves of the senses, so these are completely useless experiences and I can only advise that we should not try to find shortcuts.

"We have to practice; we have to concentrate, to open that door and find for ourselves those experiences which are of a permanent nature. It is those experiences which will take us back to the Father. But these experiences, however little you take, perhaps you may get some sort of experience by over-drinking; by taking some sort of other drug, which may make you a little semi-conscious, even chloroform. I have seen many people when they have taken chloroform; they become senseless; they have many things to tell that they have seen in that state. So this LSD is something very different from spirituality. I can only advise that we should not dabble in these things, but keep to our practice; keep to our own path."

III -MORAL LIVING- THE THIRD REQUIREMENT

Every religious philosophy and every world religion stresses the need for high moral principles. Without such guidelines, life in this world would be subject to our own dictates of mind. Indeed, without morality as the foundation, spiritual progress is impossible. The applicant must agree to abide by a code of highest morality and integrity. The Master's instructions in this case cover several distinct areas, namely:
1. The regulation of sexual expression.
2. Dress, appearance and conduct in society. 3. Business and social dealings in the world. 4. Obligations and responsibilities as a citizen.

The Master requires that one be LEGALLY MARRIED if sexual relations are to take place. Again, the stress is on the word "LEGAL ." So-called "living together" is not sanctioned by the Master; even when permitted by the law, such as in the State of California. Master insists that we form a legal and lasting relationship and requests us to go through a conventional marriage ceremony according to our religious upbringing. If we are not legally married, we must remain SEX DALLY CELIBATE. Below are pertinent instructions from the Master on these points:

"Yes, it is necessary for two people who wish to live as man and wife to go through a ceremony of marriage. They should conform to the laws and customs of the country in which they live.

"A Satsangi takes the pledge of CHASTITY at the time of Initiation. One should not have any sexual relations with anyone other than one's duly wedded spouse. Any such relation out of wedlock is a sin and necessarily hampers spiritual progress. Such acts cause the mind to crumble down and lose all strength, and the result is apparent."

"The word CHASTITY, as used by the Saints, applies to people of all countries and ages. If Americans do not find any meaning in it, then they will not find any meaning in GOD-REALIZATION either. A high moral character is a condition precedent to God-realization. Lust and the love of God are poles apart and cannot remain together in a man's heart. When one comes, the other goes."

"Sex is a powerful force, and the best way to deal with it is not to suppress it but to sublimate it. Hazur Maharaj Baba Saw an Singh Ji also used to recommend reading aloud, but slowly, Kabir's verses on Kama (lust)."

"The sex energy is very useful if it is transmuted, that is, turned inwards and utilized for Bhajan and Simran. This is the real transmutation, i.e., of the lower self into the higher self. Seeking relief in any other manner would establish wrong tendencies and deprive you of the advantages of that energy."

"How can you believe from anyone that a high standard of morality is not necessary for following the Path of Sant Mat, when at the very time of Initiation one has to take a pledge to lead a highly moral and pure life? N O spiritual progress is possible unless a Satsangi's life is perfectly chaste and above suspicion. This weakness is a great hindrance in the way and has to be uprooted completely."

NOTE: For married applicants letters 16, 55, 262, and 379 in The Master's book Divine Light will be helpful.

"Keeping good company and reading good moral and spiritual books is also very helpful, but. Simran is the most effective method. Long and steady Simran will turn the mind inwards and bring it into contact with Shabd. Shabd is the thing and as you begin to enjoy the Divine Harmony you will automatically forget the lower sensual pleasures."

"I cannot lay adequate stress on living a pure moral life. High moral character is most essential for spiritual progress. Nam and Kam (lust) cannot exist together. They are as antagonistic to each other as light is to darkness. Where there is Kam, Nam does not enter. And when Nam comes, Kam vanishes. A Satsangi should be an example to the world. His eyes should radiate purity around and a spiritual fragrance should issue forth from his body. Avoid the life of sensual pleasures and turn out desire for lust from your heart. A life of virtue, peace and contentment is possible only when you rise above the nine doors of the body. To indulge in sex pleasures and expect to enter the Kingdom of Heaven is sheer mockery. For such a one that door will never open."

"Immorality cuts at the root of Spirituality. A Satsangi should never succumb to such weakness."

Continuing along the lines of MORAL PURITY, The Master goes
on:

"It is wrong to assume that because one is a Satsangi he need not pay attention to the moral code nor to any of the ten commandments. On the other hand, a Satsangi is supposed to do all that and more. The former is to prevent us from accumulating more karma, while the additional requirements for a Satsangi are to go beyond that by cleansing the vessel (our body and mind) and putting something in it by means of Spiritual Practice.

"So, by adhering to the moral and spiritual code, we cease adding to our karmas and gradually shed the burden of karmas which we have accumulated. The soul is thus freed from the chains that prevent it from returning to its True Home."

A point which frequently comes up, relates to dress, appearance and conduct. The Master's response:

"Regarding dress, I am not against moustaches or beards, but what I advise is that one should not be abnormal in his dress and appearance. Others should not talk about him deprecatingly, stand and stare at him or turn their faces in disapproval of him. It is not very proper to be too conspicuous anywhere because of one's bizarre appearance or dress. One should be decently dressed and have a proper appearance. Cleanliness, of course, goes without saying. That is a MUST for any decent person anywhere in the world. Sant Mat has not laid down any rules with regard, to dress or appearance, but a general sense of decency requires that one should not become an object of disapproval in any society anywhere."

A cardinal tenet in the teachings of the Saints is that each disciple M U S T earn his own honest living. Again, no spiritual progress is possible if we live off of others or do not earn our own wages, through honest and socially useful work. The Master recently gave us a beautiful statement with deep meaning: "When the young have no useful and suitable employment or occupation to keep them profitably engaged and occupied, they are likely to drift again into bad company and undesirable habits. "

Finally, The Master gives us guidelines on the points dealing with social obligations and responsibilities:

"Just be a good citizen but d o not get so much involved in these things that you do not live with yourself. The main thing is that we must live with ourselves. We must live with our meditation and not get so much involved in these outside things that they pull us down and make us forget the real purpose of this human life. It depends on individual circumstances as to how much we should get involved and how much we have to withdraw. We cannot have a hard and fast rule about these things. We have to live in some country and we have to be good citizens of that country. But as to how far we have to get involved in these things, 1 think our circumstances and our own feelings will tell us.

"The essence of the matter is that one should follow a career or profession to make one's living but should not become engrossed in it to the detriment of one's spiritual attainment.

`HAND TO WORK, BUT MIND IN SATGURU,' is a saying here.
IV -DAILY MEDITATION- THE FOURTH REQUIREMENT

The first three principles serve as foundations for the meditational life. Sant Mat is, after all, a meditational science designed to bring us Self and God­realization. The applicant must be prepared to give the full two and one half hours daily to meditation after Initiation Because this vow is to be fulfilled AFTER Initiation; the applicant should take this vow as one of intent. The period of sitting may be broken up into several times during the day, but the full two and one half hours must be performed each day. Slowly, we consolidate the several sittings into one sitting so that the full two and one half hour period is done at the one sitting.

At the time of Initiation, very specific and detailed instructions are given regarding posture, technique, and other matters relating to the meditative process:

"A Satsangi must realize that this (meditation) is, in fact, man's real work, for which our benign Creator has bestowed this precious human body upon us."

"Apply this unfailing test: IF IT INTERFERES WITH BHAJAN (spiritual practice), DISCARD IT UNHESITATINGLY."

"Nam is our only true friend, both here and beyond. It is our only constant companion, our only sustenance, our only guiding light, our only refuge; and therefore, we must assiduously practice it. The friends and relations of this world are really fair weather friends. They desert us even in our lifetime. But Nam does not leave us even after death."

"The highest service to the Master is when we vacate the body, concentrate our consciousness at the eye-center, and contact Nam. It is this alone that unites us with the Guru and with God and takes us to the highest realm of Ultimate Reality."

"My only advice is that whatever we may do and whatever circumstances we may live in, our meditation should be our main concern, and this should never be sacrificed to anything of this life."

PROCEDURE FOR APPLICATION

The sincere seeker must comply with the first three prerequisites fully (meditation is done only after Initiation). Then, when eligible, the form included in this booklet, entitled APPLICATION REQUEST should be sent to the Master's Representative at the address indicated.

Upon our receipt of the "request form," an application will be sent to the applicant, whereupon he or she will be referred to the area Secretary. The applicant should call the area Secretary or the Representative for the required Initiation interview. For those who may be outside of a General Satsang area, special instructions will be included as to the procedure to follow.

Some seekers have raised the question as to why a true Master stands in need of making inquiries about the background and qualifications of seekers for The Gift of Nam through Representatives and why The Master asks for recommendations, when He knows everything about them. In answer to this question, Daryai Lal Kapur, former personal secretary to the Master, has written:

"When God comes to earth in human form, He always acts like an ordinary human being. He eats, sleeps, lives, works, suffers pains, insults, imprisonment, crosses, and dies just like other men. God also follows certain laws, though made by Himself. A question might also be asked as to why He does not call back His children to His home without taking the trouble of coming to Earth as Master. Well, such intellectual gymnastics can be of no avail. Saints never call themselves God, or assume any superior airs. They call themselves the servants of the Lord and always behave as such. They have no vanity to feed, nor any personal axe to grind. A kindergarten student will surely get confused if his M. A. teacher were to expose his knowledge to the child. But as the student rises in grade the teacher unfolds Himself to his heart's content. Our intellect is too limited to understand the limitless laws of the limitless Master."

To Simplify the process of application, a step-by-step procedure is outlined below for the seeker's guidance and information.

1. Before submitting a request form for an application, the Master has asked that each seeker should have a very thorough knowledge of the Sant Mat philosophy so that all intellectual doubts can be cleared up and satisfied. To insure that this requirement is met, each seeker is asked to read A MINIMUM OF 1 INTRODUCTORY S ANT MAT BOOK such as:

A. Path of the Masters by Dr. Julian Johnson
B. Yoga and the Bible by Joseph Leeming
C. The Mystic Philosophy of Sant Mat by Peter Fripp D. Liberation of the Soul by Dr. J. Stanley White

2. After reading 1 introductory book listed above, the seeker should surely read several of the books written by the Master Himself, such as:

A. Die to Live
B. Divine Light (Discourses and Letters: 1959-64)
C. Light on Sant Mat (Discourses and Letters: 1952-58) D. Light on Saint Matthew (Gospel of St. Matthew) E. Light on Saint John (Gospel of St. John) F. Spiritual Discourses
G. Quest for Light (Letters: 1965-71)
-9-
H. The Master Answers (Audiences in America: 1970)
1. Thus Saith the Master (Audiences in America: 1970) J. Truth Eternal
K. The Path

3. Finally, each applicant is asked to study the classic Sant Mat publication, Sar Bachan by Swami Ji Maharaj, the founder of the present line of perfect Masters. It is a veritable treasure-house of wisdom and spirituality, and should be re-read many times after Initiation.

4. Before submitting the request form, be certain that you meet the standards established by the Master for applicants:

A. Women must be age 20 or older, but married women age 19 are accepted.
B. Men must be age 22 or older.
C. The vegetarian diet has been strictly followed for the past 3 months and hereafter permanently.
D. No use of alcoholic beverages for the past 3 months (minimum) nor mind-affecting drugs, including marijuana, for the past 6 months (minimum) and henceforth permanently.
E. Standards of morality, as defined in this booklet, have been met for the past 3 months (minimum) and henceforth permanently, including the requirement of lawful marriage as per Master's instructions wherever couples are cohabitating. For the unmarried, sexual abstinence is required.

Complete the"Request for Application" form which is the last page of this booklet complete and mail it to the Master's Representative:

6. When you have received the application form and completed it, phone your area secretary and arrange for a personal interview.

7. To the interview, be sure to bring your completed Application. The Secretary will forward your Application to the Master's Representative who will, in turn, send it on to the Master in India.

8. Notification of the action of the Master regarding your request will be sent to the Representative and the applicant will be notified by mail immediately upon receipt of the Master's decision. If you are accepted, instructions concerning the Initiation time, place, etc. will be included.“

[Arjuna]

@ Sarah - hello . My name is Arjuna due to my Hindu parents thinking I may be good with a bow and arrow!

I’m better thanks to the forces with a rifle and hand to hand! But thank you

[Arjuna]

@ Jim - think a higher power worked through you. Thank for all the information. Had a letter to say that o have the option of being released from the forces as I told my general just that a few weeks ago.

You have just confirmed that I should or the answer cane through you. It’s late and I’m tired and I will respond to you in depth tomorrow.

Thank you Sir. I salute you!

Arjuna (your friend and bother of the uniform)

[Jen]

777, loved the jazz piece, my brother introduced me to jazz and also Sant Mat, he was seven years older than me, brings back memories.

So much negativity about gurus, religions, spiritual paths, just remember we recognise and project onto others who we truly are. I just have a longing to go back home, hope this is for real:

https://www.nexusnewsfeed.com/article/consciousness/7000-souls-recall-their-life-between-lives-during-regression-hypnosis-the-similarities-are-astounding/

Certified Master Hypnotherapist Michael Newton developed a technique to regress his clients back in time to recall memories from their past lives. During this process he stumbled upon a discovery of enormous proportions. He was able to bring the souls back to the place where they go before their next life — a life between lives. Out of 7,000 regressions, a large majority had eerily similar recollections of a place that many of them called “home.”

[Jesse]

"Calm down brother, they were not Gurus in the first place.
The whole further discussion and comparison is a wastage of time.

As said by the seniors:
"every inch of every RSSB centre will provide shelter at the time of apocalypse"
Most of us will witness that."

Ok. By your standards as well as RSSB standards, Gurinder isn't a guru either. He knowingly sold potentially deadly meds to innocent people.

The apocalypse is a Christian concept, and according to it cults like RSSB are screwed. Good luck with that.

Last time they said this the Dera became an extension of India's military and installed anti aircraft weaponry on the roofs of certain dera buildings.

You're telling bad jokes at this point.

[Jesse]

Borrowed end times prophecies are another quirky little RSSB thing, especially for those who care about dumb concepts like racism as a bad thing and not just a natural "it just is" thing.
I say this because RSSB while borrowing a line from the Bible about saving a nation because at least just one good person existed there, they repeat the Indo-centric view of self purity and claim India is the only nation who has good people and thus why it has existed longer than anyone, and why it will survive gods wrath. Never mind that India isn't one culture, and never was, and also that it's continuity isn't as real as advertised by the Hindutvites from whom Charan not so bright Singh got his historical narrative from.

Once you read RSSB literature from the outside it really becomes hilarious. Even more so now that we know the gurus are shady people you'd be dumb to trust your children with.

[Jim Sutherland]

@ Jen,...”Spirits can experience two lives on earth at the same time.
A dormant part of our soul remains in heaven during incarnations.”

Me: I have been saying the same, for years. Our Dormant part of our soul is our Causal body, where all of our past lives and memories are stored since our spirit was created and individualized. Our totaility of Karmas there, have not been balanced enough to release us to return Home, i.e. Sach Khand/ Heaven.

Our Astral body is existing in both our physical body and Astral Planes at the same time, but is active in the physicsl body when it is awake, and active in the Astral Planes when the physical body is asleep and resting.

Our Astral Bodies are actually Missionaries sent to rencarnated physical bodies to hopefully burn more Karma than create more, because Karma only is created or burned while in human bodies , and no other place, so the only way our Higher Soul may be released from the captivity of the knotted mind, which is an Agent of Kal, i.e. Universal Mind, our Mission during each incarnation in human bodies is to Balence our Karmas enough for our Causal Body, i.e. Higher Soul Self, to graduate to Sach Khand/ Heaven to never be sentenced to return to reincarnation again. Our Credits must exceed our Debits,

Spiritists had no knowledge of either Theosophists or Radhasoamis, because they had not yet manifested on earth. So Spiritists used the word “ Perispirit” for the Astral body, and “ Soul” for the Causal body, that animated in the Three Tier Christian System of “ The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.’ The Astral Body is the Condom or outer Membrane of the Soul, which keeps our physicsl bodies from being fried like Crispy Critters by our spirit.

Mixing different Theologies and Philosophies can get confusing, until collaboration by the different Mystics compare their Inner experinces, and discover they are very similar, in spite of totally different Theologies, East, West, North or South!

The Bible states that “ God is no respecter of persons.’

Cheers,
Jim Sutherland

[777]

""" Since getting away from this particular path, those things have gone away. Make of it shat you will... and I’m know you will. """

Yes @Sarah
Although I was never in a position to forget about the Path completely
I understand that it can give some "relieve" to throw it all completely aside

A little like a drinking sufficient alcohol wimm appease temporaly

I don't go into what I have done in my life opposed to the Path because they will again use that against me HERE for a year, six month at least .
We would, both of us, have been born on an angelic, non mafia planet when it would hv been better for us. ( stepping stones )

When we fall , just crawl up.
On think is super against the mafia procyors . . Really
It's Simran
No sense they will say again but say it once and it will be stronger than a supernova.
Further is important : don't hurt !

And everyting will go in blossom & bloom for us

777 , lover of nature but Shabd more :-) > really

PS
@JIM

I have many many times on tape Charan saying
"Concentrate on Your Master"

Also before entering Extreme Love Energy Without form
but Source of ALL existing
I bcame first One with HIM and WE BOTH with the SHABD
and the 5 words

Next you realize What and Who You really are

I'm SO OLD , I should say it

[777]

""" Since getting away from this particular path, those things have gone away. Make of it shat you will... and I’m know you will. """

Yes @Sarah
Although I was never in a position to forget about the Path completely
I understand that it can give some "relieve" to throw it all completely aside

A little like a drinking sufficient alcohol wimm appease temporaly

I don't go into what I have done in my life opposed to the Path because they will again use that against me HERE for a year, six month at least .
We would, both of us, have been born on an angelic, non mafia planet when it would hv been better for us. ( stepping stones )

When we fall , just crawl up.
On think is super against the mafia procyors . . Really
It's Simran
No sense they will say again but say it once and it will be stronger than a supernova.
Further is important : don't hurt !

And everyting will go in blossom & bloom for us

777 , lover of nature but Shabd more :-) > really

PS
@JIM

I have many many times on tape Charan saying
"Concentrate on Your Master"

Also before entering Extreme Love Energy Without form
but Source of ALL existing
I bcame first One with HIM and WE BOTH with the SHABD
and the 5 words

Next you realize What and Who You really are

I'm SO OLD , I should say it

[777]

-

81 too
like - i hope - McCain- perhaps has as his last words pronounced: Don't vote 666, please - !!!

777

[Jim Sutherland]

@777 and Keyboard Gurus,.....here is me banging away on my Yahmaha Organ

https://www.facebook.com/jim.sutherland.351/videos/1368259694784/

Jim Sutherland

[Jim Sutherland]

https://www.facebook.com/jim.sutherland.351/videos/1368329976541/

Jim Sutherland

[777]

Hi Jim
I m really curious
But facebook sais "Not Available Now" for both links

Perhaps you hv it on Youtube

Yes, music is such a great preparation to live in the NOW
in my case the NOW while playing is many many goose bumps

( They say we are re-constructed on quantum level a million times in one nano second )

777

[777]

on
@Brian's request :
I repeat deleted answers @ TIM f.i.

------

. Do they need this to affirm their own doubts? More often, I think atheists feel offended and annoyed by unverifiable religious dogma, especially if it is used as a basis for forming public policy. Like, "God says gays are sinners so you don't have to bake a cake for them." Although you shouldn't have to bake them a cake if you don't feel like it. Personally, I think it is good business to bake cakes for everybody, even hard atheists.

Posted by: tucson | September 01, 2018 at 09:11 AM

--No.
Athiesm is NOT a belief. period. Just to make it clear, I am referring to the "weak athiest" position.
The theist says "I believe in a God"
The athiest says, "I lack that belief" so "prove to me that God exists"
The theist cannot respond by saying, "well you prove that god does not exist!"
because
the athiest will say, "I am not saying that god does not exist"
all he is saying is that he does not believe that he does exist.
This is not semantics.--

I didn't say THAT was semantics, did I? No. Read what I type, not what you THINK I typed.

An atheist position is rife with beliefs (sensible and sane ones, but still beliefs). For instance, in the atheist position of 'no-belief' you use is present sorts of beliefs. For instance one holds the belief that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That's a belief. It's a CREATION of the human mind that acts as a HEURISTIC device. Now, it happens to be incredibly sensible, but that doesn't alter the fact you can't actually prove that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence in either the sense of a mathematical equation (mathematical proof) or in the sense that if you jump off of a building, you will fall (undeniable empirical 'proof' up to now).

Posted by: NaturallySelected1 | September 01, 2018 at 09:52 AM

I believe much more that no hard atheist exists
your ( not mine) discussion is between :

1)
is this energy/existence interested in us
2)
not at all
3)
has some interest on a personal level

Would produce better answers

777

Posted by: 777 | September 01, 2018 at 10:07 AM

""" Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. """

@287

Yes So true, . . . but some hardships work in seconds

777

Posted by: 777 | September 01, 2018 at 10:13 AM

@TIM
Are you (777) referring to cessation of thoughts in meditation or all the time while awake? Wonder who this observer of no thought is?

______

In RSSB meditation
It's only LOVE that can do this
First Love your Master, Love some Simran ( 5 minutes or 15 years ) next hear the sweet Sound ( shorter )
Love all this together
like a teener's first crush
Then experience these 3 are entirely the same
Next be ONE with that and it accumulates & swells giantly °°
You cannot even think in these circumstances: YOU ARE THAT COMBI !

Concerning daily life between these peaks
We must adapt - like that puber dreaming the whole day & night, cannot sleep, cannot eat
All is about His/Her LOVE

Hyper constant Orgasmic above our eyes

Please Read some Rumi , Tim

In general : Which other reason would be Gods Motiv then LOVE
as opposed to IQ

7777

Posted by: 777 | September 01, 2018 at 10:37 AM

[Jesse]

I'm going to post a link here for those who may want to leave RSSB but have family members, or others who they feel might treat them differently for leaving. Depending on how long you've been in, and who your associates are in the cult, it can be difficult.

While RSSB isn't the most dangerous cult, it certainly meets the criteria of a cult, and some people thinking of joining or wanting to leave should be aware of how cults work to make better decisions before joining, or to handle the process of leaving better and not get tricked, shamed, or otherwise made to feel negative emotionally by ex members.

When I left, I simply didn't exist to them anymore. While that might sound ok to some, that is certainly not how healthy communities operate. When you build up relationships over years with normal people who care, they tend to check in on you and wish you well, regardless of if you believe the same as them or not. I could have been homeless and dying on the streets of cancer and nobody would have known or cared. Others have reported far worse things upon leaving, including shunning from family members and worse. Again, definition of cult behavior.

Not telling anyone not to join or to leave, but just to beware of what you're getting into.

https://www.cultwatch.com/howcultswork.html