Open Thread 15 (free speech for comments)

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

(Take note, commenter who goes by "777." Your wildly off-topic, preachy comments aren't acceptable on a blog post, but they're OK in an Open Thread).

Comments

[Jesse]

I just want to say that I think Donald Trump is the avatar of the new zeitgeist and that for people of my generation and younger he may be the last hope for America to resemble what every previous generations recognized as American.

For Indian readers, Trump is like our Modi.

#MAGA

[Jesse]

Another thing I'll mention which isn't related to a particular post here is that RSSB is dependent on its followers being ignorant and not looking further into topics RSSB pretends are unique to their faith.
For example, the old RSSB books, and Indian religions in general, would like you to think they have a proprietary system which has been lost to other religions for 1000 years. They use an abundance of stories from the first few centuries of the last millenium to support their claim of this indigenous Indian system that everyone else borrowed from them and which only they can teach others.
It's all very convenient branding, which I'll repeat, only rings true to the ignorant.
A few years ago during a conversation with an orthodox priest he mentioned the word "nepsis" to me which opened the door to the entire system of hesychasm and spiritual masters called Starets who also impart supposed inner experiences etc.

This was one of the many experiences after my RSSB uninitiation that revealed more and more how stupid the gurus are and how much they spoke of things they know nothing about. They are most certainly the blind leading the blind.

Now, I'm not looking for a Christian master now, but simply making the point that Radha Soami isn't unique or special in any positive way.

I'm content in what others describe as my life of "hate in a materialist hell" but which I refer to as "just hanging out on earth and thinking about stuff without limitations."

[Jen]

Jesse, I see you as a trickster character - (someone who likes to disobey normal rules and conventional behaviour) and thats okay with me.

I do see through the falseness of Sant Mat now. I think Sawan Singh could have been the real deal, an enlightened being, but maybe thats just wishful thinking on my part.

Also about the Trump phenomenon thats happening I like what you said "Donald Trump is the avatar of the new zeitgeist". I also feel a new awakening happening and I can't stand the extreme feminist movement with all its screaming and yelling and hysterical protesting and the lefty snowflakes who are so upset that Killary did not win. Can't imagine what the world would be like now if she had won!

I looked up Modi, who "is widely reviled among the country's bickering intellectual elite" - which also fits in with the ruling upper class elite in America who are so upset about Trump winning.

[Jen]

Is anyone interested in this free personality test:

https://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test

Myers-Briggs Personality Test

I am an INFJ which is the rarest type, 2% of the general population, so its kind of lonely, I'm hoping there might be another INFJ posting here?

[Jesse]

I'm an INTP, Jen, which is also rare at 3% or so. But then again, most of the categories are rare.

[Jesse]

"They love patterns, and spotting discrepancies between statements could almost be described as a hobby, making it a bad idea to lie to a Logician"

Haha the intp description on that page is hilariously accurate for me personally.

There was a semi famous blogger who I'd been going after for a while and collecting his contradictory statements.
Eventually he said some things dumb enough even to attract the notice of his followers, so I began unleashing screenshots of his previous contradictory quotes and lies which contributed the most powerful ammo that led to him being bullycided off of a certain social media site.

Stuff like that feels like mental glory to me. Popular intellectuals are almost invariably slimy liars. I Love hurting their fame goals.

[Arjuna]

I turned out to be a Protagonist- ENFJ-A.

Explains quite a bit to be fair / just put it this way you want me around if someone started on you in a bar😊

[Jim Sutherland]

I just took the Test, and ended up as ARCHITECT PERSONALITY (INTJ, -A/-T)

Jim Sutherland

[Jim Sutherland]

This is me. It IS lonely at the Top, and is why I don’t meet many Satsangis there!

It’s lonely at the top, and being one of the rarest and most strategically capable personality types, Architects know this all too well. Architects form just two percent of the population, and women of this personality type are especially rare, forming just 0.8% of the population – it is often a challenge for them to find like-minded individuals who are able to keep up with their relentless intellectualism and chess-like maneuvering. People with the Architect personality type are imaginative yet decisive, ambitious yet private, amazingly curious, but they do not squander their energy.

Jim Sutherland

[Jen]

Hi Jesse,

Yes, also rare 3% - The Logician - very true about the unrelenting logic: "INTPs are known for their brilliant theories and unrelenting logic – in fact, they are considered the most logically precise of all the personality types."

I like this bit - sounds just like you: "They love patterns, and spotting discrepancies between statements could almost be described as a hobby, making it a bad idea to lie to an INTP" lol

Hi Arjuna,

So cool, we have quite a lot in common.

ENFJ-A - The Protagonist - Extraversion, Intuition, Feeling, Judgment - A for Assertive
INFJ-T - The Advocate - Introversion, Intuition, Feeling, Judgment - T for Turbulent

The difference being E for Extravert and I for Introvert.

Also you are luckily more assertive than me: Assertive (-A) individuals are self-assured, even-tempered and resistant to stress.

And I am turbulent: Turbulent (-T) identity are self-conscious and sensitive to stress) :(

Hi Jim,

Yes, INTJs - the Architect personality - very rare, which makes life quite a challenge especially because its "a type that craves truth and depth".

Cheers guys :)

[Joe]

Well bully for you Mr. Sutherland. I'm a MEDIATOR (INFP-T), so I guess I'm ordinary.

[Jesse]

Nothing is ordinary, Joe.

Especially in the current reality we all inhabit where the rate of change in all things seems to be accelerating. If you're a mediator type, you'll be forced to mediate exotic phenomena in constant states of transformation. Sounds like a daunting task to be someone occupying a middle ground.

Like who had a transsexual in their family or friends circle 50 years ago? Nobody did. Now in this upside down environment, most people do. Japanese beetles in Minnesota killing the crops, Minnesotans in Japan eating Fukushima nuke sushi, genetic engineering of all life, biggest mass migrations of humans of all time, laser weapons, THE INTERNET (most human-transformative tech of all time) and an inescapable global culture of memes and virtual reality that's even making its way into agrarian southeast asian villages already.

Unless you're over 80 years old, you can't be ordinary anymore. Ordinary is ceasing to exist. And insanity is ceasing to be avoidable. The mediators will be in a position of navigating this new psychic terrain. Best of luck.

[Arjuna]

@ Jesse - interesting and thanks for the feedback on my result - i learn something new each day. I can be assertive but only when I am face to face with people who are out of order - the false and humble snakes we all meet or people who will bully you if one shows weakness. Unfortunately- I’m not proud of that part of my psychi...

There is a company in the U.K. which claims to have found a way of assessing the hidden traits we all have - I can’t for the life of me remember the name. Will find it and put the name on here - have a look at it when I do and give me your feedback please?

It’s claims to be able to look beyond a persons CV and education.

[Arjuna]

@ Jen - sorry I addressed I my thread to Jesse by accident.

@ Jesse - you can read that thread too. It will be interesting to see your thoughts on this company which claims to see beyond everything when I find the name. Please check this thread later.

All the best guys - Europe is roasting in this heat wave and I’m on vacation and staying in the swimming pool under water all day 😊 lol

[Appreciative Reader]

Quote Brian : Take note, commenter who goes by "777." Your wildly off-topic, preachy comments aren't acceptable on a blog post, but they're OK in an Open Thread

Ah, so it seems 777’s God has paved the way for him to win your challenge after all, Brian, with well over three full weeks to go!

PS : Kidding! :-)

[Jesse]

Appreciative Reader,

I forget basically where you stand on the RSSB Q as well as the general question of belief in religion or mystic experience.

I'm personally agnostic on general religious and mystic ideas, mostly in disbelief of individual reports of experience at all, 99.9% disbelief that any of those experiences are anything more than brain activity and obviously I refer to RSSB as a cult in a negative sense.

You?

Jesse

[Jesse]

Jen, you might like this-

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assemblywomen

I've never read it but read some commentary on it and it seems both funny and more relevant now than when authored 2000 years ago.

[777]

Jesse
The Gurmuki language Word means Love
but you might know, . . not so sure !

77

[Jen]

Hi Jesse

I found and am going to watch the play written by Aristophanes "Assembly Women" on youtube.

A long time ago I read Goddesses in Everywoman and I strongly related to Persephone: The Maiden and Queen of the Underworld, Receptive Woman and Mother’s Daughter - abducted by Hades. Just downloaded the pdf.

This also reminded me of M. Esther Harding, a distinguished Jungian analyst, her book The Way of All Women (and liked this because I have the same surname).

Synchronicity everywhere, hey 777 !!

[Jesse]

There's no such thing as gurmukhi language, 777.

It's the name of the script currently used to write the Punjabi language on the India side of Punjab. Previously it was used to write in all the languages used in the Guru Granth Sahib.But the word "pyar" is the same in almost all North Indian languages. I like the word "ishq" better, though I assume it comes from Farsi.

What is your mother tongue? Don't avoid simple questions.

[Jen]

Hi Jesse

Nope, classical Greek drama is not my scene!

I'm an oldie who was a New Age Hippie type, and now have discovered I STILL AM. Wondering if there are any more Hippies around?

I've selected these points recognising myself in: 'Signs You're A New Age Hippie’.......

You bump into the same person twice in one week and declare definitively that it’s ‘synchronicity.’

You don’t mind the taste of spirulina and whole garlic cloves

Instead of praying to God or Santa, you ask the universe to make your dreams come true.

You’ve attempted to home-brew Kombucha only to have your Scoby die because the reality of looking after something that ugly was not as shiny as a store bought bottle.

Probiotics and gut health are part of your everyday vernacular. You also try to eat sauerkraut, kimchi, and kephir on the regular.

You’re spiritual, not religious.

The concept of cashew cheese doesn’t sound wack to you. In fact, you’ve either made it yourself or tried it at least once.

Meditation is a morning ritual and if it’s not, you’re probably talking about how it should be.

You’ve read, or at least heard of Eckhart Tolle and his book The Power of Now. You’ve also read (or are intending to read) Paulo Cohelo’s The Alchemist and Jack Kerouac’s On the Road.

There’s at least one crystal in your home or on your person.

Sage smudge sticks are your preferred method of dealing with life’s up’s and down’s.

Yoga is the closest thing to a religion that you’ve got and if it’s not that, it’s probably Buddhism.

You know what nutritional yeast, bee pollen, lucuma and maca is and have probably used these in your cooking or morning smoothie at least once.

You’ve fantasised at least once about one day growing a badass veggie patch and living entirely off the land.

You follow the moons cycles instead of TV series.

You blame your bad moods on the moon, or when Mercury is in retrograde.

Gluten is not your friend.

You’ve heard the name’s Pema Chodron and Ram Das thrown around the ether at least once.

You’re vegetarian at the very least. If you’re vegan, you prefer to call it ‘plant-based.’

You long ago ditched soy sauce for tamari

You wear essential oils instead of perfume.

You’re open to the idea of tarot cards and psychics.

You have a bamboo toothbrush and are well acquainted with the brands Grant’s or Red Seal.

You’re fully aware when your chakras aren’t aligned and when that happens, it’s as real as any other personal crisis.

You know the struggles of finding a natural deodorant that actually works.

You’ve used the words ‘cultivate’ and ‘femininity’ in a sentence before.

Lifestyle: By Ella Liascos March 9, 2018

https://www.greengoodnessco.com.au/melbourne/lifestyle/35-signs-youre-new-age-hippie/

[Jesse]

Got a batch of kombucha brewing in a cabinet I forgot about. Thanks for the reminder.

Classical Greek anything isn't my scene either, but it was in reference to a comment you'd made earlier.

I'm certainly not a hippy, but some of those things you mentioned are definitely on my radar, and I only use Young Living oils :-)

2 of my favorite UFC fighters are raw vegans, which I think is an amazing gap to bridge. Vegan cage fighter. Sounds impossible.

[777]

LOVE

777

[Arjuna]

@ Mrs Thatcher - was mentioned in the papers this morning with regard to how she would have handled Brexit.

Thought popped on my mind - now here was a woman who had a fierce intellectual and only slept 4 hrs a night - so yeh say. Men (politicians) and what I like to call “keyboard warriors” of today were nervous in meetings with her.

Point - in the end she was pickled - and yes I know she had a condition -Punjabi style question lol. Where did that fierce mind of hers get her? No where is the answer! Makes you think - all you have to do is visit a hospital ward and it humbles you.

It would be nice if we have a capacity to think and remember beyoing the brain/mind - the search for the holy grail marches on lol. Pardon the “holy” Brian! 😊

On that note I have training to do in this heat. Brazilian jujitsu- here I am come lol.

[Juan]

“The search for the holy grail marches on.”

Getting very close, thanks to Brian for providing the platform, where
Gurmukhs guidance and the direct grace of Babaji (still in Q&A at Haynes, maybe till 12.00) will lead us to results.

[777]

Copy past from "Why dear God is an Illusion"
before deletion ( as agreed after the 'BET' with God

I think the following makes perfecr sense now and here, yes today . . . °° :

My old friend from long ago was asked to drive MaharaJI from Amsterdam to the impressive dutch water works
He was scheduled for prostate interventions in that week and had to change the date.

Once going North half way the giant 25KM or so water stopping dike and no restaurant in view
Maharaji asked him to stop for pie-ing some.

Maharaji walked like is normal 5 meters from the car .

When he freed the willy, My friend Gert , pieing too, . . . felt an enormous heat
in his prostate area

After the 'voyage' his new prostate appointment wasn't needed anymore
The prostate had healed
Cancer had vanished

-

These evenements are always so personal, not only medical
but we - the few RSSB likers here - are spoiled with these delicious happenings
where the Master makes life a little bit more bearable up to PARADISE already, . . .

not to speak of , JAPJI :
"For Those who hear the Word, . . whole nature is in Blossom and Bloom"

Try to hear the Sound Guys
and make this blog into Blossom & Bloom

777

[Swarg]

To the author of the blog.

Rssb is not a religion or a sect. Is that clear? These are basic mystical teachings, it is gnosis, independent of nothing and nobody, it is still the same, from the beginning of the world.
One of Christ's rssb said more or less: "many come to satsang, but only a few achieve what I am talking about, only a few people listen to me and stick to the course"
This means that if someone failed, he could not meet the requirements, and most of his life was filled with pursuit of sense gratification, ie vegetation and lack of spiritual feelings.
The concept of God is fiction! Because it is impossible to separate man and God, they are the same things simultaneously. Is this understandable?
There is also a veil that is also God and Demiurge in man, hence this misunderstanding. People think they are a curtain, but they are really the Will.
What is Will and what is it?
The will is what created the world, the universe and everything. Wola, word or Shabd did everything,
the only evidence (for ignorance) of the existence of not God but of Will, are the senses that perceive the world. It is not BigBang who created everything, spitting planets and bacteria / people along the way.
Gurinder Singh initiates many, but many will return to the dungeon again.
The one who achieves inner sensations does not talk about it, because he loses it, it is an individual way. Anyone who wants to achieve "God" in himself, not ilusion / demiurge, must practice a minimum of 2.5 hours a day, in addition to the moral and spiritual approach to life.

"How easy it is to be a fool" when nothing works, it's better to laugh at everything and everyone.
When the stairs start, you prefer to stay downstairs.
I know one very wise poet, a writer from rssb, who would give his life to the Master, He also says that people are wandering and know that they do not achieve results, they are like blind buffalos going to ruin.
Many people in RSSB are not perfect, because if they were, they would not be here (time - space). Only Perfection can be known by Perfection, all the rest are only on the way. Is this clear to you? As long as we have bodies, we can temporarily stay in the "paradise", but to do so, we have to strip ourselves of everything from our little will, desires, expectations, fear, fear, conventions, conformism, hedonism, views, antipathy. Of all this, it is a real death during life. I will say it again. Sant Mat is the way of death of a man!
And how much the author of the blog and similar discussing people, killed in self a "human", it can be seen at every step. Work on yourself and leave the world alone. Why do you convince others if you are wise, yes, why are you doing this? Why are you denigrating Rssb if You are the best of people?
Because you miss a lot of this world, you have desires and pretensions, you have a lot of yourself. You fight for yours. You have not yet renounced "I". Therefore work on, effort is the only right thing.
I did not come to people here, but to you. Be afraid of death because you do not deserve to know what is beyond. But you still have time, you have the opportunity to go to freedom, to Will, indestructible Will.

[Juan]

There is a popular saying in Spanish:

"El cornudo es el último que se entera”

Please apply it if you wish to.

[Arjuna]

@ Swarg - hello and wow.

Your writing has shot through me - I needed to read that.

Thank you.

[Jesse]

Swarg,

I feel dumb and ashamed after reading your "come back to the cult" comment.

Why would you write that nonsense?

Jesse

[PJ]

Swarg - if you want to advocate RSSB, then by all means debunk the quotes attributed to Gurinder Singh. The teaching is cogent, or we wouldn't have followed it in the first place.

Threatening apostates with a 'return to the dungeon' doesn't address the issue.

[Jesse]

Swarg,

Would the perfect man get super cheap stock from corporate boards of directors stacked with brainwashed cult members and then put that stock in his wife's name to avoid scrutiny? Would the perfect master man be involved in the sale of contaminated medicines to poor people so that he can line his pockets with cash before his younger family members sell their stake in the businesses in a deal so shady that they all might get jail time?

Is this "perfection" that you speak of present in the form of "Punjabi Munda" who likes gawking at naked white chicks? Is "horny old Punjabi guy on the stage rambling about religions he has no knowledge of" how you define perfection?

You say "Sant Mat is the way of death of a man!"

I'd say so, too. There are a lot of rumors of people getting killed when RSSB does one of its infamous land grabs to procure some crappy plots of clay soil in India. Death is surely part of the culture, along with corruption.

You all need mental help, not more Indo-cult. These cults and godmen are a dime a dozen and nobody gets any benefit from them other than the ability to recite theories about astral worlds, karma and the supposed perfection of old thieving, lying, shady guru hornballs.

Jesse

[Arjuna]

@ hello all. Ask no one to follow a path or not. We all have a choice! Just my penny’s worth but I did enjoy reading Swargs blog.

Lets have fun either way- hell here we come or we are on it already - a ball of rock hurtling through space.

Have fun all and don’t get mad with each other -by all means disagree but don’t lose control.

Respect ✊

[Jesse]

PJ, you say "Threatening apostates with a 'return to the dungeon' doesn't address the issue. " and you're correct.

But threatening immense pain is certainly part of RSSB literature. We're threatened with the chaurasi lakh chakr, walking in circles for millions of years suffering and being born as rats and devils because we chose the wrong guru or didn't quite make it to a high enough heaven.

One of the funniest things repeated by advocates of Indian religions is the false notion that it's somehow unlike Abrahamic religions in the sense that it doesn't threaten people. This may be the joke of the century. "Hinduism" and all its many branches, RSSB being one of them, uses millions of scare tactics centered on the reincarnation theory.

Eternal hell doesn't sound much different than "eternally reborn to suffer in horrible pain."

[Jesse]

"Ask no one to follow a path or not. "

Why not though, Arjuna? If someone believes in this stuff, why wouldn't they ask others to join? If someone thinks its harmful, why not tell people to leave?

If nobody was asked to join, or persuaded in some way, then RSSB wouldn't exist.

I got pulled into the cult by a really nice couple of believers who frequented a tea shop where I worked long ago. They left Path of the Masters on a bookshelf in the shop which I read and enjoyed. When they saw me reading it one day they asked what I thought of it, and then told me where the local satsangs were held.

Then, as you know if you've ever attended satsang, there was an hour talk about all the RSSB topics including the horrid nature of this world, referred to by Sawan Singh as a "public toilet," and how sad it is that others don't have a "perfect living master" who will save them from maybe billions of years of torture.

These things all resonated with the 23 year old me who was insecure and depressed, looking for answers and a way out from the struggles of life. Like all cults, RSSB offered the promise of solace, though looking back, I can tell that nobody received it.

I have to disagree that people shouldn't be asked to follow or not follow a path. People most certainly need to be told not to follow the path of this cult, in my opinion. At least for westerners, joining RSSB is a social death sentence that will likely exacerbate every single problem people face in their life, and there is no evidence that anyone has ever been helped in any way after joining. On the contrary, we were told frequently not to help each other because helping people would "create more entanglements and karma."

RSSB is evil and stupid. Join a traditional religion if you want, but never join RSSB.

[Arjuna]

@ Jessie - hello. You are right you can ask people visit and see if they like it. If not - it’s no hard feelings etc.

I for something refrain - bar the fact that I have two of Brian’s books to two people many years ago.

I think after losing a lot of family through death - that part of me died and the job I have doesn’t really ask me to bring up sentiment.

That’s all I can say- really

[Arjuna]

@ Jessie - I was born into a RSSB family but that faith was broken - see above email explanation on death.

I like you as you appear honest - discussing depression is the hardest thing to mention - I fight it daily. Some days are bad and some good.

All the best fella

[Arjuna]

@ Jessie - you are right no one is permitted to help anyone in the time of need- I needed it when mum and dad died but no one came even to put their hands on my shoulder and say it will work out fine. I Made it work out fine.

The drinking ! The questioning! The boxing when I was younger and now the army. But it’s a journey.

You see a lot of people folding their hands and bowing but they would leave you for dead or walk by in the REAL world.

Phew that was heavy bringing them emotions up 👍🏽

[Jesse]

"I was born into a RSSB family"

This seems to be something that is far more common now, which means RSSB is transforming from minor guru sect into full blown religion. This also means, by RSSB's own terms, that RSSB is less true than it previously was because religions are false according to RSSB, and the guru is supposed to save us from the falsehoods of religion. "The master" used to have to use his power to grab disciples from disparate backgrounds, but now mom just brings the kids to satsang and their baptism comes at age 21 when they're told how to put their thumbs in the ears.

Most non-Indians I met still hold onto the old belief of non-conversion, as you yourself do, but in India its become a thing now to pressure everyone in the family to get initiated, or simply to present RSSB as the family religion instead of it being a personal choice. It's a major development and change that isn't talked about much.

[Arjuna]

@ Jessie - I stopped going to the meetings 15 years ago as I was abroad a lot and what I saw woke me up.

Truth be told I’m big and ugly enough to say I do feel lost sometimes but no one is coming to help to me! That I know.

So I do my best in being kind to all - well most of the time unless they are knobs.

[Jesse]

"The boxing "

I envy people who study martial arts. It's one of my life regrets that I never did. Watching UFC last night was great, and I wish I had some fight training to better understand what the fighters experience when they pull through after nearly getting k.o.'d.

"You see a lot of people folding their hands and bowing but they would leave you for dead or walk by in the REAL world."

People being harsh and thinking about themselves is common, but it's one of RSSB's prescribed ways of life, and I personally don't respect it. I think it's about money, tbh. I took a cab to a Chattarpur satsang once, and when we were leaving, all the people who'd gone in trying to look all holy suddenly became very aggressive and chaos ensued as we were trying to drive out of the parking area. The taxi driver commented on the sudden change and why they were more aggressive after a satsang.

Churches where I live spend a lot of money,time and emotional energy to feed needy people and sometimes even provide housing for them. They're real saints in my opinion, and everyone hates them all the more for the good things they do.

[Arjuna]

@ Jesse - you made me nearly choke on my coffee - damn that is so cool. Yes I noticed that many were more aggressive after a meeting lol.

Boxing is disciple - it is never too late to join a class . In my day it was the hard stuff - pure boxing and conditioning. And a few black eyes lol.

But these days we are so luck that sport has so many keep fit variations at gyms and clubs - join one and see how it feels - you could do the boxing training which as with MMA fighting training is the complete package. Join and ask to be trained in the training of the body - pad work, running , skipping and learn to move on the feet. You will 😊 it

[Jesse]

"I stopped going to the meetings 15 years ago as I was abroad a lot and what I saw woke me up."

Do you still do the meditation? I was doing it for a while after I un-initiated myself, but I didn't like the association to RSSB, so I started doing the Jesus Prayer, and sometimes the Sikh Mul Mantra.

Now I want something that has no associations to gods, saints or anything that uses words. Zazen seems to be the thing.

[Arjuna]

@ jessie- no I stopped that.

[G.S]

I envy people who study martial arts. It's one of my life regrets that I never did

I'm trying to get into MMA, it might be a little late to start a pro career on the side because I'm 26. But it's something that really fascinates me too, I've also applied to be a WWE wrestler, just for a bit of fun on the side. It's different to MMA but it's something I've always liked watching.

I know Brian's into martial arts, he could legit kick our ass lol, that's why he was Gurinder's bodyguard.

[Swarg]

Do not compare yourself with others, that this man has more and that or I have less, it will lead you no farther like a anger and a sense of general harm. Do you, who are so regretful of the poor and the sick, not get angry at the same time on the healthy and the rich? How silly is your approach! Wish you for poor people the riches, why do not you please the rich for further prosperity? And even if the poor, to whom you have had so much compassion, will become richer than you, will you not feel disgusted and disgusted with them, because you think they have too much? Why do you irritate other people's property, why do you suffer from other people's deficits?

Is it not because you have not quenched your lust and desires? Is it not because you want to measure all, how much of one should be for others as if your assessment was the only right and proper one? How easy it is for you to judge people on their possessions! Remember, often a poor man is less humble and more greedy than a rich man, because he is used to luxury, he feels empty and bored with excess of comfort, he sweeps the last dirt of greed.
And what is the wealth that you see as if not the next node to cut? Another rag that covers the treasures more valuable than you might think. I am talking about attachment to temporality, because there are no riches, they are the shadow of human judgments. And what price will you put on a treasure that can not be estimated or measured, or circumvented?

You are still only people, instead of discovering someone better in yourself, you feel, your regrets are constant, because you prefer to ask, analyze, talk, instead of going through death, remember - your lives are a plan of will, She is not for you, but you are for her . That is why there is so much sadness in you. If you put out your demiurge - your heat of suspicion and resentment - you will find a will that is always there. Regardless of sects, religions and organizations. You do not have to move out of the house to witness her voice.
What do I write for? that's her order. I do not want to write with you, but I have no influence on the event, on fate. Nobody controls the fate except the will.

Everyone has their own way, I will not check anyone for the authenticity of a Guru.
I checked myself who accepted me and I am convinced from a long time.
I am not a whip for the debauchery and licentiousness of the mob, I do not judge them, I leave it in the hands of fatalism.
This is the meaning of life, that you have to go personally, individually, no master for you will survive life. Maybe help just walk. I have no intention of convincing anyone to RSSB or propagate it, because I do not care. Only the chosen ones achieve "certainty" and "treasure", the rest get lost in uncertainty and fear. I'm talking about gnosis, kabbalah, about teachings that are old like this world. I have no intention of philosophizing what perfection is for me and what is for you. Words are too narrow, and they do not bring experiences.
But I will tell you, what is perfect is that which does not pass away, which is eternal and possesses wisdom, indestructibility, consciousness, will, peace and happiness, therefore it is the Arch-good without opposites, the single good that the mystics have spoken of since the beginning of the world, even Sokrates/Platon, hermeticism and orphism. Beyond good and evil. Beyond body and time.
If you do not like RSSB - I do not care. Perhaps another time will come and other mystics who will convince you through experience.

The kingdom of heaven, that is eternal life, or this lost treasure is within, in man. Not in any Guru or science, not in his riches or his poverty. The man who killed himself but lives on - achieves an inner sound and sees his way. In the end, he experiences that his life is the same in every Guru and every man, even in will, because life is one. Everything is from one source and will come back to this source, I can not give you other words, although I would like to.

Hell exists, here on earth and beyond, even in dreams, hell is a state of mind, the mind creates a body for pain and crying. But the mind is subject to nature, and it is the demiurge, the demiurge listens to the universe born of will. Reincarnation does not come from Hinduism, metempsychosis like exteriorization, anamnesis are concepts known in other territories, even in the "old testament", are talking about reincarnation every now and then.
Someone is based on religions and views and makes mistakes, but someone knows the truth and does not copy from anyone. Who knows the truth? Certainly not the mind, that's why I say - you have to die in person, it is a difficult path, the way of death, to transcend the mind. Is this understandable?
Do not be ridiculous, everyone just denigrates others, everybody makes up false proofs. I forbid you to believe in my words! Words are not enough. I forbid you a faith that does not need confirmation. Believe only yourself, in yourself, everything is in a man, I myself was small and stupid I was in a big shock. I was a skeptic and a doubter until I died of mind.
It's just a fake death, it's like a dream - the mind goes to sleep, and new lands awake, the man dumps the body, gets a new robe that is beautiful forever, deadly beautiful.
They called this robe a soul, but the soul is not separate from some imaginary god who lives in the clouds.

[Jesse]

Swarg,

Reading your comment is like reading a long beer burp if it were in text.

"I myself was small and stupid"

You still are.

"I was a skeptic and a doubter until I died of mind."

You only died of common sense. You're here copying cult texts and pretending to be holy online. It's annoying, and I hate you because of how badly you're annoying me. You would probably hate me too, but you're no allowed to say it because of psychological hangups instilled in you by the cult.

"I have no intention of convincing anyone to RSSB or propagate it"

You just wrote 999 words of RSSB propaganda. 999 words of pure advocacy. Stop lying.

"Do not be ridiculous, everyone just denigrates others, everybody makes up false proofs."

First sentence is a denigration of others as being "ridiculous" immediately followed by a command not to denigrate others. The rest of your entire diatribe is a list of false proofs that you've copied from John Davidson's books.

Let me denigrate you for a moment and say that you're a first class hypocrite with an extremely short memory.

I hope you go away fast and spend more time in meditation instead of proselytizing here. You probably make a better meditator than online liar.

[Swarg]

I'm not copying anyone, but it's easy to say that because you could hear similar things, do not be upset - I was small and stupid and I am, because I am still not distracted from mental/mind gibberish now. I use my mind because I can think and write, I can life here.
How could I be holy? This is not it yet.
I do not propagate Rssb, I have not told anyone yet that this is the only and true path.
It's not my business who does what. Everyone has their own way, but will everyone get to holiness - whatever that means?
I am not converting anyone, it is the will and not my will. Jesus was actually crucified for the same, his teachings seemed to be too bold and too "sure" which disturbed most people. Even Jesus had those who slandered. And finally, you have to name some things by name. You personally want to humiliate me, prove the power of intelligence and mind, but you keep on barking, because my caravan is going on.

[Jesse]

"I am still not distracted from mental/mind gibberish now." "but you keep on barking, because my caravan is going on."

Wow, you're so spiritual and above it all. So much so that NOBODY IS IMPRESSED AND NOBODY BELIEVES YOU.

I just got you to defend yourself and your written words online. Your inner doubts were revealed, and your arrogance exposed which is why you felt the need to write more words and insult me by comparing my lovely and eloquent prose to the barking of a dog. But I'm not a dog, I'm a troll, and I'm your Guru.

Obviously you are easily distracted by what you call "mental gibberish" and more obviously my words are greatly more attractive than those of the thieving nude beach gawking guru of Religare and Ranbaxy.

Here you are, defending yourself against me on the internet. You're not at satsang. You're not reading spiritual texts. You're not doing simran. You're not sitting for hours on end with your thumbs in your ears.

You are here, on Brine Hines' blog arguing with your real Guru, Jesse.

Woof woof. Bark bark.

[Guru Jesse]

My advice to everyone who wants to promote RSSB- do it silently.

Doing the "I'm so imperfect and by admitting I'm imperfect, I'm being humble" thing is gross. Humility isn't expressed by drawing attention to how self conscious you are about your faults, and comparing them to others. You're being showy, not humble.

Similarly, the RSSB adherent tendency to make stupid choices, and then attempt to blame karma for the stupid choices makes you look idiotic, too.

Everything you guys do that doesn't include being silent is a bad idea for the most part, unless you're an agnostic RSSB'er who says "I like this stuff and it might be true."

[Arjuna]

@ Jesse “... reading a burp... lol

Very Blackadder - the bbc series

[s*]

The chaurasi thing is indeed totaly terrible.

It makes people depending on the master.
Not good!!
Because out of fear.

[One Initiated]

Jesse,

we become what we believe in,
If not in common noun,
maybe you'd prefer to call it "opposite of GOD" ?
That way you can still take HIS name - amazing !

Love is everywhere, even in the curse.

[Jesse]

"we become what we believe in"

According to you.

Before I was born, I didn't believe in something called "Jesse who is on earth" yet here I am being just that. I became something I never believed in. My existence just is.

You believe in me more than you believe in god. That's why you're talking to me, and not to god. Will you become me? I don't think so.

[Arjuna]

@ all - I am back at work tomorrow for 6 months so no more reading and commenting on this blog 🙁

Laters dudes and girls - try and not kill each other in my absence. It’s not worth it!

If you want excitement and danger- come with me and leave the keyboard warrior mindset behind - however bring spare underpants ( preferably brown lol).

Have a good summer and maybe chat in February .

All the very best

[Swarg]

You do not throw the pearls before swine, as well as the dogs, have you not heard it anymore? Here we are at the public forum, what we write can read anyone. That's why I say certain things in metaphors, but a real seeker, when he reads something similar that I have written, understands and feeds on what encourages him to take certain steps. Maybe not to join the organization, but to improve yourself.
I also end up, you can not argue with a rabble that does not see or hear anything, we are all aware that it is a public forum.
Do not be offended that I say mob, because it's just curtains, you are not that - in us is the same life, all the rest is dirt and death, the human body and identity is worth as much as dust. Everything is misery in this world, we must free ourselves from it.

What is the atheist's morality based on? On unverified speculations and hypotheses, on uncertainty and on the belief that his disbelief is correct, he believes in the truth of his unbelief - even if he did not want to. The atheistic approach to life is hell, everything passes away, so atheists will also easily pass away like their supposedly important person.
There must be a sense somewhere, an atheist has two ways to make sense.
1 way is the trust in science, which eventually comes to several hypotheses, often funny. 2 the way it is trusting that nothing makes sense and that is their sense and fear at the same time.

Goodbye

[Arjuna]

@ Swarg - Christ could say that!!! Do not cast pearls before swine as he was from the man upstairs and had security clearance and authorisation! You can’t my friend!!!!!!

I hear a lot about the other side - about the fact they have seen stuff - light, angels, demons, travelled at speed, seen long gone dead people. However upon closer examination they do not even qualify to be what the world calls a “good man” so how the f*ck they got access when we are told we must have a clean heart and mind beats me!!!!

These are seriously floored humans and yes I am judging because I have had enough of this shit of not saying it how it is!!!

We are swine when it comes to the bottom of things but some of us are a better class of swine and just want answers.

Let Brian do what he wants - surely the master who initiated him knew he would do this!!!! So what he is Donn os authorised by God in a way!!!

Amen brother

[Jesse]

"You do not throw the pearls before swine"

"That's why I say certain things in metaphors, but a real seeker, when he reads something similar that I have written, understands"

Swarg (who i think might be One Initiated cause of same grammar errors) now thinks he's Jesus.

The guru defense is getting crazier by the second.

"Everything is misery in this world, we must free ourselves from it."

Funny that you're quoting all this gnostic stuff, cause this is why gnostics were so often condemned. The idea that god created a big labyrinthine hellhole to torture us in until we accidentally escape sounds absurd to atheists, agnostics and mainstream Christian believers alike. Remember the beginning of the Jewish bible? "And it was GOOD." It doesn't say "and it was nightmare hell misery."

"What is the atheist's morality based on? On unverified speculations and hypotheses"

Atheist morality is based on a lot of things. Some people seek to minimize suffering. Buddhists are atheists and definitely could be considered more moral than members of a lot of other religions.

The most unverified hypothesis of all time is the existence of god. Doesn't mean god isn't real, it just means that nobody can verify any particular god to exist. Verifying corrupt Punjabi business man's ability to create planets and life is most certainly speculative, and until verified, I won't be seeking his input on moral issues. I mean, if he's the moral authority of this world, why is he so obsessed with Euro boobies?

"The atheistic approach to life is hell, everything passes away, so atheists will also easily pass away like their supposedly important person."

I see atheists with healthy families eating meals, going to concerts in the park, riding around on jet skis, taking care of each other, being loving and being loved. Definitely less hellish than a RSSB satsang.That's for damn sure.

You're gonna pass away, too, buddy. And from the looks of your comments, you suffer from a lot of inner turmoil that you're burying under retarded dogmas and ego aka excessive self importance.

Get out of the cult, man. It's not healthy for you, obviously.

[Jesse]

"upon closer examination they do not even qualify to be what the world calls a “good man”"

Exactly this.

First I want to see exceptionally good people with exceptional self control. If that is evident, then I'll consider looking into their supernatural beliefs.

Have fun during your six months duty, Arjuna. Hopefully you're not in any sort of combat situations, assuming you're still in the military.

[Arjuna]

@ Jesse - I wrote that last post due to the fact that my nerves are kicking in now - which is a good thing as it will keep us alert. That swine mark hit a raw nerve - pissed me off!!!

Yes duty for 6 months and I’m over weight lool. 16.5 stone for my height of 6:4. I was 15 stone so thats another battle lol.

You take care and don’t let the buggers get you down - which I know they won’t. And remember - boxing fitness check it out.

All the best.

[Jesse]

Arjuna, We're about the same height and weight. It's the heaviest I've ever been, but at our height 16 "stone" isn't too bad.

You should be able to get to where you want without too much effort. Unless you're really old now. Then it's gonna suck. Good luck

P.S. stone is the most hilarious word of all time to my American ears

[Arjuna]

@ Jesse - wow that’s cool😀

I hate being more than 16:5 as we carry a huge backpack and weapons - and food supplies plus water. And I can’t say it anymore but it’s hot there.

I can’t disclose my age as that may reveal too much. There are lot of people I know and thankfully they are not RS ie who would cone to this blog- if you catch my drift. But I’m still ok - think the experience and years helps me to protect others in my core better.

Right young man - I suspect- you take care hit that boxing gym - you have a reach advantage use it 😀

[Arjuna]

@ Jesse I’m tired and need to wake in 5 hrs - so pardon the grammar and spelling mistakes - you got my drift no doubt and this dump iPhone is pissing me off with a cracked screen.

Laters dude and be good - take care

[One Initiated]

Arjuna,
You are a strong person, I will still wish you as my heart always wishes you.
Wish you a safe and good time ahead.
Good time in the day and great time in the night !!
Love.

Swarg,
Thanks for posting the beautiful comments.
In fact, I'd add each one of us is a swine unless we reach Par Brahm.

Jesse,
"Same grammar errors" - ha ha ... that was very funny to correlate.
Well, your conclusion was wrong.

believers or non-believers, but love works great.

I wish everyone here and everyone else,
will receive abundance of love.

Lots of Love to everyone.

[Appreciative Reader]

Quote Jesse : Appreciative Reader, --- I forget basically where you stand on the RSSB Q as well as the general question of belief in religion or mystic experience.

“Forget” how? We’ve only had a few odd interactions here, and I haven’t ever gone into the details of my beliefs or lack of them with you, so I don’t see how you could have known anything about this in the first place, that you might forget.

Yes, I did say this much to you, I remember, in a past comment, just this much : that I’m not a follower of RSSB, and nor do I have any hang-ups about religion at all, one way or the other.

If that’s what you’d read, and forgotten, and wanted to refresh your memory about, then I’m happy to have fulfilled your request and filled you in.

Quote: I'm personally agnostic on general religious and mystic ideas, mostly in disbelief of individual reports of experience at all, 99.9% disbelief that any of those experiences are anything more than brain activity (…) You?

We’ve both of us established that you’re a troll, and it would be silly now of me to take your bait and launch on an earnest exposition of my beliefs or lack of them, wouldn’t it?

But since you ask, and do me the courtesy of first detailing your own beliefs (or at least, take the trouble to describe the beliefs that you’ve vested your online persona with, which fictive beliefs may or may not actually coincide with your personal beliefs), it would be churlish of me not to return that courtesy in some measure. In very brief, then, and leaving out nuances and details, I’d say that my position is more or less similar to yours (or at least, to what you describe there as yours), in so far as belief itself is concerned. I wouldn’t agree to your “99.9%” number myself, neither in terms of the spurious precision that number evokes, nor the near-total certainty it ascribes to the contra-position, but that apart, we don’t really disagree with each other on this, you (or at least, your online persona) and I.

I have to admit, I’m not exactly thrilled to find that you and I seem to agree about this. You -- that is, your online persona, as you project it here on this blog -- isn't the kind of person that is an asset to anything you might associate with. To the contrary, your association is, in my opinion, no less than an actual liability. To that extent, I am discomfited to discover the commonalities that we seem to share in our worldview as regards religion and spirituality.

Quote: I refer to RSSB as a cult in a negative sense. --- You?

Obviously I see and realize the apparently shady elements within RSSB, such as GSD’s business-related shenanigans, and the unbecoming level of wealth that he seems to flaunt, as well as the apparently classist segregation between the haves and the have-nots at the Dera and in how GSD interacts with his flock, et cetera.

As for GSD’s apparent roving eye (that Brian describes his correspondent as having reported), while I do not share the RSSB faithful’s horror at that suggestion -- after all, if an Einstein or a Pablo Picasso can appreciate female beauty and companionship without that in any way detracting from their essential genius, why not a GSD? -- nevertheless, I agree, for what it is worth, that that sort of thing does not comport with my personal ideas either of what I imagine true spirituality might be (always assuming there is such a thing as spirituality at all!). Nor do I rule out the possibility that these may be no more than instances simply of GSD’s sense of humor. (Or, of course not. I don’t really know enough about that man or his sense of humor to have an opinion one way or the other about this.) I’m saying, GSD’s apparent sexual references aren’t really a big deal, as far as I am concerned. Having said that, obviously, if there were any suggestion of actual impropriety (in terms of coercion about matters sexual, of the sort that one hears about elsewhere, with some priests and some godmen), then that of course would be a very different matter!

You asked me about my views on RSSB, specifically about my views of RSSB as a cult : Well, I’d say that its cult-ist elements are obvious. But I see no reason to be any more “negative” about it than other cults (including larger and more mainstream cults, aka religions, like Catholicism, or the other denominations within Christianity, or for that matter the different versions of Islam, or the various sects and denominations within Buddhism and Hinduism, et cetera).

They’re all cults, all of them. Might some of them have something of real worth hidden within all that dross? Perhaps! There is no reason to believe that such might necessarily be the case, of course ; and no skeptic is required, following rational enquiry, to consider even the possibility of such ; however, nor is there any reason why anyone who’s personally interested shouldn’t investigate this and see for themselves. That kind of personal inquiry also is a bona fide part of the rational process, albeit no one is under compulsion to undertake it if they don’t want to. I wouldn’t mind doing that myself, except that at this time I do not have that leeway in terms of time. Perhaps some day going forward, who knows?

.

You’ve mentioned, as I remember reading in one of your comments some days back addressed to the poster who calls himself “Arjuna”, that you apparently sometimes visit churches and find peace there, something like that. I forget which denomination, but as far as I remember it wasn’t mainstream RCC, it was some other denomination, but the details of your admission escape my memory.

Rationality isn’t exactly your strong suite, Jesse, we’ve clearly seen that in the course of your interactions with me : but surely even you can see the blatant hypocrisy in yourself seeking solace, of a kind, in the places of worship of your own choice, while at the same time going out of your way to loudly berate those who seek their own peace within their own particular place and mode of worship?

.

Religions in general have, potentially at least, two separate aspects. One would be their theology, accepting which requires blind faith on the part of its adherents. The other would be the Gnostic element, which is (allegedly) experiential in nature.

I would say that that, at least in my opinion, the blind faith portion can be wholly jettisoned, in every case, as almost certainly fictive. (Not with cent per cent certitude, obviously, but as near that as makes no difference.) And that wholly disposes of all religions that do not, at least in their mainstream versions, contain a Gnostic element. And that would include all mainstream Christian denominations at this present time, which either downplay mysticism, or else advocate outright a fideist stance (that glorifies blind unquestioning faith as a virtue in itself, without even seeking any kind of verification, neither in reason nor in gnosis/mysticism/realization).

With mystic religions like RSSB, which stress the experiential part, we can assign some subjective probability to their being true (or not). It may be only 0. 1%, as in your own personal assessment, or else it may be a higher number (or else it may even be zero, depending on one’s personal opinion) : but the point is, mystic religions obviously, by any rational assessment, occupy a probabilistic range of the mystical portion of their tradition being true, a range that is, by definition, higher than for non-gnostic faiths which do not, themselves, give credence to mysticism. Mainstream religions share almost every negative that Gnostic religions are accused of (see the splendor of the Vatican, the sheer magnificence the luxury that generally surrounds the leading members of the clergy and even the current Pope -- whom personally I admire, incidentally -- who personally so abhors personal pomp and chooses to embrace poverty, see the sheer ostentatious luxury that surrounds on all sides even his self-embraced and self-declared “poverty” and “simplicity” ; and see also the numerous instances of choir-boy diddlers that the Catholic Church shamelessly harbors and often actually enables), while clearly missing out entirely on the mystical element (no matter how subjectively small a probability we ascribe to the latter).

Given that, do you see the incongruity of your finding solace in (presumably Christian) Churches, no doubt dropping a little something in the collection plate at the end of the service, while at the same time berating those who happen to find their solace in some other church (in this case RSSB) and who are not averse to making their contributions to the RSSB donation boxes?

The only way this curious antipathy of yours specifically towards RSSB might make some kind of sense -- the only way we can think of it as not actually owing to some kind of mental imbalance -- is if it owes to some unfortunate personal history that you may have with this organization, or with a member of this organization. If that is the case, then it is silly to extrapolate this personal history into a crusade specifically against this particular faith.

So no, I am by no means a RSSB believer. But nor do I share you particular negative sentiments specifically towards RSSB. I do not see that RSSB is any worse than any other religion, and see no reason to single it out to direct any antipathy against.

.

There! It seems I’ve taken your bait after all, Jesse, and, in answering your question, have gotten carried away and waxed on far more about this than I’d intended to when I started typing this comment. If this question of yours also was a troll, then congratulations, it’s worked for you, to an extent. Only to an extent, since as you see I’ve managed to return, right after, to awareness of the possibility of a troll.

(Here’s what’s fascinating : After all, a troll is a human being too, with arms and legs and head and heart and blood flowing within their veins. Just because a great many things that a troll says are insincere, that does not mean that everything you say here is necessarily insincere. Perhaps it is safer to ignore everything that the likes of you might say , and hence that cliche about never “feeding” trolls. I suppose it’s a judgment call, every time. This time I’ve ended up responding to your question with a sincere (and detailed) answer. If that results in a spate of sniggering troll-glee at your end at having taken me in again -- and in your pretending, as you'd tried to once, that you do not have the time to read and respond to this rather long comment of mine, even as you seem to spend, cumulatively, literally hours and hours simply flooding this blog with your hate-filled diatribe -- then so be it, Jesse.)

[Jesse]

Way too many words man. What is this?

"I wouldn’t agree to your “99.9%” number myself, neither in terms of the spurious precision that number evokes, nor the near-total certainty it ascribes to the contra-position, but that apart, we don’t really disagree with each other on this, you (or at least, your online persona) and I."

You obviously have debilitating autism and don't understand how colloquial language works if you're picking the number 99 apart so much.

Have you ever talked to a girl before?

[Jesse]

"Rationality isn’t exactly your strong suite, Jesse, we’ve clearly seen that in the course of your interactions with me"

This is only because you're mistaken about what rationality is, which you clearly announce to the world in the second half of that lengthy defensive manifesto that focuses on my personality instead of the simple question I asked you in good faith. Won't make that mistake again.

It isn't hypocritical to use temples for personal reasons and to simultaneously tell people that their literal belief that a money grabbing pervert isn't God. How could you ever come to that conclusion? Doesn't even begin to make sense. And it took you over 1000 words to say that.

Also understand that I don't think much when I write these comments. There are logical problems in what I say that I'd have to correct if I wanted to submit it to one of your university gods. But the totality isn't irrational. It's just careless language. Unlike you, I dont reread and edit what I write as if internet comments matter and will harm my status.

[Appreciative Reader]

Quote Jesse : Way too many words man.

Bravo, Jesse! Lovely response!

That’s exactly the kind of response that this obnoxious troll persona “Jesse” that you’ve created would be expected to make : wholly vacuous, half-witted, and desperately trying for malicious sarcasm even through the fog of its slow thinking, in order to mask the patent emptiness of content in what it says (vis-a-vis my comment that you were replying to). Word perfect, that response of yours!

Despite knowing that everything you’ve said here is wholly insincere, I’d like to play on, for just a bit. Allow me to respond to what you’ve made your “Jesse” troll character say to me here, OK? I think it would be entertaining (you know, the “lulz”), and perhaps not entirely without instruction, of a kind.

Quote : You obviously have debilitating autism

Terrific! This keeps getting better and better!

Obviously, this “Jesse” persona of yours is exactly the kind of out-and-out asshole that would spontaneously think up exactly such an insult as this. Apart from being wholly empty of actual content or even relevance, it clearly shows your pathetic lack of empathy for those who actually do have autism.

Quote : don't understand how colloquial language works if you're picking the number 99 apart so much

My slow-witted friend, it is your own powers of comprehension that are sadly lacking. What you display here to the world, through your comment, is your own lack of simple reading comprehension skills.

I’m not “picking apart” your “number 99”, I’m merely disagreeing with it. Do you understand? And nor, when I say I’m “disagreeing”, am I saying that you’re wrong, I am merely saying that my subjective assessment (of that probability) is different than yours.

Do you understand, even now? Has the meaning of my words managed to penetrate into what passes for thinking with you, even now?

Let me repeat that one more time, taking care this time to break up what I said into words of one syllable :

You said that you subjectively assign a 99.9% probability to individual reports of spiritual experiences being wrong. I essentially agreed with your approach, and merely clarified that I would probably assign a lower probability than that to these being wrong. (In other words, I would probably assign a higher probability than your 0.1% number to these perhaps being right.) How much higher? Might it be 2.5% when compared to your 0.1%? Might it be 5% when compared to your 0.1%? Might it be as high as 10% when compared to your 0.1%? I don’t know, I haven’t really worked that out myself, and cannot really put a precise number there at all, like you have done. But I’m sure it’s higher than your teeny tiny 0.1% number, that much is sure. (And that’s fine, it is perfectly understandable, and actually quite natural, that the two of us should assign different subjective probabilities to this eventuality.)

In other words, what I myself said was : I am somewhat less certain that you of the spuriousness of all instances of mystical experience, and somewhat more open than you to the possibility of at least some of them being true in some sense.

Have you now understood what I’d tried to convey? And do you now see how your lacking of simple reading comprehension skills prevented you from making sense of my clearly expressed words?

Quote : Have you ever talked to a girl before?

Ooh, that burns! What a wonderfully witty put-down that was, Jesse! I am truly devastated by that piece of sarcasm! Have I ever talked to a girl before, Jesse asks me. Why “before”, Jesse? “Before” what?

English isn’t your first language, is it, “Jesse”? You’ve managed to pick up the language fairly well, but you seem to lack the instinctive understanding of English usage that the educated native speaker would take for granted. You see, that question, “Have you ever talked to a girl before?”, would make sense only if I am talking to a girl now, not otherwise.

You understand what I’m saying? That sentence of yours, specifically your use of that “before”, would make grammatical sense only if, in my comment that you quote, I were actually talking at that point itself with a girl, not otherwise. And this usage is something you’d have an instinctive ear for, if English were actually your first language (and of course, provided you were properly educated in its usage).

So, simply from the grammatical construct of your question, one can infer one of three possibilities :

Possibility 1 : English isn’t your first language. (Which is perfectly okay, nothing remotely wrong with that!)
Possibility 2 : While a native speaker of English, you are actually semi-literate, and do not have a good grasp on even your own tongue.
Possibility 3 : You’re a girl.

So which is it, “Jesse”? Are you a girl, or is it one of those other two possibilities?

.

And moving on from the grammatical construct of your sentence to the actual sense that your sentence conveys :

It would appear that you move in very limited circles! You seem to imagine that “girls” follow a certain ‘type’, dumb-ish, not particularly articulate or intelligent, et cetera. You’ve mentioned elsewhere that your age is somewhere in the thirties : well, your mental age seems to be nearer to 13 than 30!

I assure you, Jesse, that in the real world there are as many intelligent and articulate “girls” are there are intelligent and articulate “boys” (men?). The sex of a person does not have anything to do with their intellectual capability. (And nor does race!) And no, before you jump to one more of your knee-jerk misogynistic generalizations, there actually are plenty of very beautiful and very attractive women who are also very intelligent and very articulate.

So no, speaking with “girls” does not require one to dumb down one’s speech. And the fact that I do not dumb down my speech has no bearing, in the real world, on whether or not I’m accustomed to speaking with the fair sex.

(Fascinating what a whole wealth of information a single sentence can hide within itself, isn’t it, Jesse?)

.

Pathologically obnoxious, half-witted, racist, and misogynistic as well : This is one remarkable online persona you’ve constructed, this “Jesse”. Thanks for devoting such a prodigious amount of your time and energy in inventing and fleshing out this remarkably entertaining persona/avatar!

[Appreciative Reader]

Quote Jesse : This is only because you're mistaken about what rationality is

I simply love these half-witted responses of yours, Jesse!

So, now you’re saying I’m mistaken about what rationality is, eh? Well, surely you realize that your stomping your foot hard and telling me in indignant tones that “You’re mistaken!”, does not actually mean that I’m really mistaken. You do realize that, don’t you?

This is how rational thought and rational discourse works : Since you say I’m mistaken about what rationality is, you’ll need to clearly explain what it is you think I’m saying about rationality, and in what way that is different from what rationality actually is.

Go on, have a shot at being rational : go ahead and try to explain what it is you mean to convey, exactly.

Quote : lengthy defensive manifesto that focuses on my personality instead of the simple question I asked

I only sought to sincerely answer your question as correctly as I could. Go back and read my comment one more time, slowly this time, and see if you cannot understand that this second time round.

Nor was what I said remotely “defensive”. It was only descriptive. [ Although yes, you may perhaps have found parts of what I said to be somewhat ‘offensive’, but that is a different matter altogether! ;-) ]

As for the references to your personality (or, more correctly, to the fictive online persona of "Jesse" that you've built up) : You detailed your own position, and asked me to describe mine ; that is, you asked me to speak about my position as juxtaposed against yours, my views vis-a-vis your views ; and that is exactly what I did.

Quote : I asked you in good faith. Won't make that mistake again.

Ooh, have we hurt the poor little troll’s feelings?

I agree, this is so unfair! The poor little troll, after spending hour after hour making rude offensive comments to others, including directing some rude offensive comments specifically towards me as well, sits down for a space to rest awhile, and suddenly, bam! Instead of responding to this poor troll’s protracted obnoxiousness with understanding and kindness and sweetness and sympathy, along comes this unkind heartless person here, who is so heartlessly frank in pointing out to our poor troll all its errors and fallacies, and points out all manner of inconvenient facts, and speaks of inconvenient things like rationality, when all this poor little troll seeks is nothing but some hard-earned respite after toiling so untiringly at insulting others.

It seems that underneath the scales and the calloused skin of the troll there throbs a heart after all, and that heart is hurt when, in response to unprovoked unkindness, it finds unkindness directed back at it.

Oh, the unfairness of it all! What is this world coming to, when a troll cannot insult others without having its own flaws clearly pointed out by unkind inconsiderate people? What, oh what, is a poor troll to do?!

Quote : It isn't hypocritical to use temples for personal reasons and to simultaneously tell people that their literal belief that a money grabbing pervert isn't God. How could you ever come to that conclusion? Doesn't even begin to make sense.

It “doesn’t even begin to make sense” to you because, as we have clearly seen, your basic reading comprehension skills are sadly wanting. You’re arguing against a strawman.

It is indeed hypocritical, blatantly so, to yourself seek peace in “temples” of your own choosing -- where the Gods worshipped are just as spurious as elsewhere, where the clergy are just as ignorant and hypocritical as elsewhere, and where the potential for abuse of trust is just as real as elsewhere -- while criticizing others for doing that exact same thing. It is blatantly hypocritical to go to “temples” for “personal reasons”, while at the same time insulting others for doing that exact same thing. It is blatantly hypocritical to yourself give money to “temples” of your choice (as you no doubt do at the end of the service, unless you’re a cheapskate that enjoys the hospitality of these churches without giving anything back to them!), given that your particular “temples” represent “money-grabbing” just as much as anyone else, while at the same time criticizing others for doing just that. It is blatantly hypocritical of you to support and enable the freeloading hucksters that run your own particular “temples” in the name of a non-existent God, while loudly and rudely criticizing those who choose to do the same at “temples” of their own choice.

Hypocritical is exactly what your conduct is!

(And nor am I defending RSSB in saying this. Not for a minute! The wrongs at RSSB remain wrongs, and I wouldn’t dream of attempting to defend what is clearly indefensible, never! Why would I, given that I have nothing to do with RSSB myself? What I’m doing is simply and clearly pointing out your own hypocrisy, that is all.)

Quote : Also understand that I don't think much when I write these comments. There are logical problems in what I say that I'd have to correct if I wanted to submit it to one of your university gods.

This is so quaint, your ideas about rationality! You seem to imagine that rationality is something stiff and formal, that comes into play only when writing formal research papers for some university. You seem to see this “rationality” as something that you turn on and off, like a light switch : turn it on when writing serious papers, as for a university, and then turn it off again when in more informal settings. My God, you actually seem to think that! This is too good to be true! You, Jesse, are one fascinating specimen!

Although writing research papers does require one to be rational, absolutely, nevertheless rationality isn’t exclusively the domain of “universities”. Rational people tend to speak rationally with one another at all times (unless they’re deliberately joking). Indeed, rational people tend to think rationally even when by themselves. Do they do this always, at all times? Obviously not! Rational folks aren’t Vulcans, after all! But absolutely, that is the broad ideal, definitely : and when a rational person catches himself thinking wholly irrational thoughts (and thinking these things unintentionally, as opposed to deliberately), then absolutely, he does seek to correct himself.

And nor is it exactly a strain to do this, you know! Rationality is no big deal at all, once you’ve internalized the idea. Rational people generally behave rationally most times, more or less spontaneously, more or less effortlessly.

Your problem is, rationality is truly not your strong suite, like I said. That is why you harbored those absurd ideas about Kenyan distance runners (for instance) in the first place. More importantly, that is why you did not accept your mistake and correct yourself when I pointed out to you how wrong you were. That is why you harbored those absurd ideas arguments about genes in the first place (imagining naively and somewhat stupidly that in speaking of genes you were also speaking of race), and spoke out that utter drivel about NASA and space travel. Again, more importantly, that is why when I pointed out your error about your primary argument involving genes, not only did you not correct yourself, you actually tried initially to double down on your fallacious argument, and later, no longer able to make any rejoinder, simply retreated silently from that portion of the discussion.

The rational person is never ashamed to change their opinion when the evidence so warrants. That is the hallmark of the honest rational person. Like I said, rationality is obviously not your strong suite at all!

Quote : the totality isn't irrational.

There you go again!

You’re yourself admitting that the individual words and sentences you write are truly irrational, but now claim that the “totality” of what you say isn’t irrational.

You think it is enough that you simply pronounce that? You don’t think you need to back that up? You think you don’t need to clearly explain how, in spite of the individual irrationalities that your comments are entirely made up of -- as I’ve been very clearly demonstrating, in my own comments, and as you now yourself clearly admit -- how it that in spite of this the “totality” of your position is nevertheless, as you claim, rational?

This is fascinatingly meta! “Jesse” announces to us that he is being rational, in “totality”, despite the incontrovertible evidence of the individual irrationalities that his comments are comprised up, which evidence he himself admits. He doesn’t realize that even that is something he needs to back up, with evidence, and with arguments. This meta humor -- unintentional humor on his part -- is truly priceless!

Seriously, Jesse, you’ve no clue what it is to really be rational. Although it is never too late to start learning! Try it, it’s wonderful, this rationality thing. Never again will you be afraid to be wrong, once you’ve truly embraced rationality. Because if you’re proved wrong to your own satisfaction, then you simply change your views in accordance with the fresh evidence, as simple as that! Go ahead, Jesse, try it! After all, you’re not religious, or so you claim, so what have you got to lose after all?

[One Initiated]

Dear AR,

On a side note:
(Not trying to get b/w yours and Jesse's ongoing discussion)

Your writing style reminds me of Socrates,
(telling positively - I do like reading Socrates and Plato)
Do you like to read them as well ?

[777]

Spendid A. R. analysing "
"" Ooh, have we hurt the poor little troll’s feelings? ""

Sometimes I'm trapped in starting reading this _esse's vomits
I forget sometimes to check the pseudo first.
So sometimes I witness these 2+2=5 tragedies

But A.R.s rebuttals make my day. - Thank You so much !

Like You AR I write this out of Love ,
tamas will only improve a little out of fear of its inner reality

7

[Jesse]

Appreciative Reader, I don't read your posts anymore. You're about 30% as intelligent as you believe yourself to be, and you use too many words to prove it.

[777]

L'arroseur arrosé . . . :-)

7

[Jesse]

Had you never heard of Charles Manson or was most of the interview linked to below transcribed and attributed to a guru, you could read it and much of what he says would sound "spiritual."

Some people object to RSSB being labeled a cult, but why? You're asked to put a healthy family life at risk, leave your religion, and worship a man by giving him all your time, money and attention in exchange for afterlife promises. That is by definition a cult.

What solidifies the proof is that even when presented with evidence that the religion itself is simply borrowed material, and the leaders are caught up in numerous scandals, the adherents' excuses increase at the same rate as the evidence of their guru's corruption does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmnHfh4w0Hc

[Sarah]

I’m gonna be honest, we attend a home Satsang (I still go every other Sunday because my husband throws a fit when I don’t) and don’t a have a seva box so haven’t ever felt pressured to give money... and there’s not really any work seva to do because of where we live—other than read at Satsang. It’s a weird set up. Anyhoo, I like all the people at our home Satsang (it’s not held at my house) so I don’t mind it much. Plus half of us share the same feelings/questions about Sant Mat. There are a few zealots (including my husband) who never question RS dogma but the rest are pretty open minded.

And ALL of us (even the zealots) also go to other churches or gurdwaras, temples, and bible study groups for cultural or family reasons. Maybe we’re a weird bunch but I’ve never felt like I couldn’t raise questions at our Satsang... except by my husband who freaks out when I say something completely contrary to Sant Mat at the meetings—he’s hyper reactive to anything and everything, though. But like I said—there’s a lot of love there because we’re friends. I’m not sure the love has anything specific to do with Sant Mat.

I go to make my husband happy... and I enjoy my friends. Occasionally something is shared that I take home with me and own. And I’ve gone to Dera several times for similar reasons—always looking for a reason to stay on this path and trying to understand why my in-laws are so devoted to it. For a while the path made perfect sense but then the questions came and it doesn’t help being surrounded by family that constantly tell you not to question but to “have complete faith in the guru”. Gurinder is a very charming, funny guy if I look at him as a friend. I could hang out with him and laugh and joke. But if I look at him as GIHF he freaks me out. It’s just weird to me. A guru that’s considered a teacher is one thing but GIHF a completely different game altogether and I guess that’s why I’m so critical of him at times.

To accept a person as GIHF is culturally foreign to me. I never even believed Jesus was GIHF when I was Christian... God is God. Humans are human.

[Jim Sutherland]

Sarah writes,....”I’m gonna be honest, we attend a home Satsang ”

Me: Should we take that to mean your past comments about Gurinder saying he looked forward to seeing the naked Babes on the beach was not honest?

When ever any one starts a conversation with me by saying,...”.Well to tell the Truth,....”, my reaction always is, well have they been lying up to now?

As for Home Satsangs, I thought Gurinder abolished Home Sat Sangs? Is this not true? If so, your Satsang is not affiliated with RSSB. I lived in So. Califirnia, for 31 years, and as soon as Gurinder came to power, Home Satsangs and all socializing with Satsangis was abolished, including Potluck lunches.

Regards,
Jim Sutherland

[777]

""" accept a person as GIHF is culturally foreign to me.
I never even believed Jesus was GIHF when I was Christian...
God is God.
Humans are human. """

GURINDER DOEN'T UNDERSTAND THAT JOB EITHER
Everybody ( minus 10 here ) consider HIM as GIHF ,
and HE stays as Guru Nanak says : "The lowliest of the Lowly"
and for real

Ha ha That is God's sweet trick in this Galaxy !!
Elsewhere he has even more funny ones
A beautiful puppeteer !
Doe everyting for a milligram of LOVE

Nothing in the universes is NOT God
but only some know it

Not in the last place through constant serendipities

777

Sorry Cleopatra, . . You are doomed to see it tooo !
and you will see it better than yr hussband :-)
Cheers for once

[Jesse]

"Everybody ( minus 10 here ) consider HIM as GIHF ,
and HE stays as Guru Nanak says : "The lowliest of the Lowly"
and for real"

777, Gurinder took on the title of god, literally. He has full control over the entirety of a cult who prints books in which every one of them call him god in one way or another. It's on the website. He says it at the satsangs.

Why do people in religions lie so much? It makes me sick.

You know what the books say. You know what Gurinder says at the satsangs. There is no way to escape the fact that he accepts that he is god, yet you say he's calling himself lowly?

It's like catching your wife in bed with a guy and believing her when she says "he's just my friend. We're having coffee."

Certifiably insane.

[Sarah]

@Jim... “I’m gonna be honest...” sorry it’s just a very common expression around here (the South). We just say it... without considering how it might sound to someone from California. LOL My husband is from South Africa and he has all sorts of crazy sayings that would bother you far more I’m sure. I’ll be more conscious about using that phrase going forward. ;)

Yes, our Satsang is affiliated with RSSB. There are still several home satsangs in small towns all over America. GSD did away with home satsangs during the week though...

@777, does Gurinder pay you to write this stuff?? LOL ~ Cheers

[Jim Sutherland]

Hi Sarah,.....I have lived in Virginia, right in tne heart of the Blue Ridge Mountains since Jan. 2011. We love if here, with the 4 perfect Seasons, and mild Winters. The people of the South are the friendliest people I have ever encountered. Every body waves at me, even the UPS, Fedex, and Garbage Trucks? Surely, I must have a Golden Aura around me to have so many strangers wave at me, no matter if I’m walking, riding my Harley or Spyder. After living in Califirnia for 31 years, its a Breath of fresh Air, and I mean that literally! In So. Ca., We could SEE the Brown Air we breathed in to our lungs!! What Southern State do you live in? The only friendly Satsangi I met while at the Dera in Oct. 2017 was a South African Male that looked to be about 40. He was a Gurinder Initiate, and a Christian Penticostal. He actually took me by the hand and led me to a man who helped him buy a Telephone Coupon to call a Taxi to drive him to the Train the next morning, as I had been unsuccessfully been trying to do up to then. Also, Jen who posts on this blog, is a South African who now lives in Australia. Also, I have a Satsangi friend, born in So. Africa, my age, who is a So. African who has been living in Israel since 1989. He has told me the history of the So.. African Sanghat as well as the tiny one in Israel. What does your Zealot Husband think about Gurinder’s Sexual Jokes during Q & As? Is he O.K. With it? What Christian Denomination were you with prior to Sant Mat! Are you close enough to the Fayetteville Sanghat to attend Sat Sangs there! The closest one to where I live is 2-1/2 hours away, so I have never gone. The only reason I would go any way, would be to socialize with other Satsangis, ...which is not allowed by Gurider. Do you have the Southern Drawl, “ All Y’all? 😇😍
Cheers,
Jim

[777]

"" @777, does Gurinder pay you to write this stuff?? LOL ~ Cheers ""

YEEES SWEETY

With Souls

You can't belive the Loving Excitement in myself
when an "exer" says : Yes , . . let s try again

Souls also - when I like a person I meet in my life
and I just ask/pray to bring that soul in safety
outside chaurasi

. . and then it happens

Love upon Love , upon Love
Like Jim had planned for him but shit_dogma is in the way

Thanks for the beautiful question

777

ps
My answer is literally true

[Sarah]

@Jim

Hi there! You don’t live too far from me but I can’t really say where I live st this point... I mean, I’d rather not say for privacy sake. Have been to Fayetteville a few times but I think Baba Ji is planning to go to a Satsang Hall in New Yourk somewhere (a new one?) instead of Fayetteville next year.

Yeah, I’m not sure if GSD did the right thing or not about not allowing Satsangis to socialize. I say that because if Satsangs has been a lot more warm and social then I probably would have created so many great friendships outside of Sant Mat that have allowed me to open my mind and begin to question things. So, as annoying as his stance on that is (and selfish) it has helped me see the bigger picture. I hang out with my real friends and even go out for drinks with them. I don’t care what GSD thinks about that... I drink responsibly and besides, thanks to GSD’s management I don’t buy everything Sant Mat is selling anymore. He’s “so humble” and yet it’s always “his way or the highway”. What about Charan’s way. GSD doesn’t seem to care about warmth. All he cares about is that EVERYTHING is focused on him.

Sorry, I’m in a little bit of a negative space right now. When it comes to running the Dera and Satsang centers, Gurinder is incredibly selfish when it comes to the comfort of others. I wonder if when he has guests over if he has them sit on benches in his home and refuses them any food or drink as they are forced to sit in silence.

Yesterday I said he’d be a cool guy to hang out with—but that’s if he’s not in his Im the Master, it’s all about me mode (the lowest of the low, humble servant). Extreme false humility.

Jim, I will continue this when I’m in a happier space.

Thanks for reaching out. You are very kind. 😊

[Jim Sutherland]

Pseudo 777 writes,...”Love upon Love , upon Love
Like Jim had planned for him but shit_dogma is in the way”

Me: strange comment, for some pseudo Elder Sstsangi who condones others like me, who are not ashamed of our past enough to hide behind fake Avatars and throw dog shit at those of us who are proud enough of our lives to at least, share our real names, so challengers may check out our profiles to see if we are even real.

To answer your prior question about should I be worried, .....,No, I am not worried at all. You should be so confident.

If you are the Poster Child for online RSSB, then Gurinder must be counting his blessings to have you as his Approved Spokesmen.

I won’t be pimping fir RSSB any longer tho.
😇

.

[Sarah]

@Jim, I wrote a response to your email a little earlier but it may have wound up in Brian’s spam box which is probably where it should stay since I was in a pretty negative space—not towards you, just REALLY frustrated after leaving Satsang with my husband PREACHING at me about something I said... (which really wasn’t even that bad). It’s difficult keeping the peace in the family when one spouse is so dogmatic. That being said, he is trying in his own way and I recognize that. My husband always says that his first priority is taking care of me and his second priority is surviving me. LOL

With regards to what my husband’s thoughts were about the Dera session (he wasn’t there so got the news second hand) he said Baba Ji must have had a reason for saying the the things he said... 🙄 So, that’s pretty much how our conversations go regarding Sant Mat. His blind devotion and my endless questions. And of course, occasionally the conversation explodes, but for the most part we don’t get too much into the details with each other anymore.

We live not too far from you actually (I’ll keep that a secret for the sake of our sweet little Sangat here—don’t need my waywardness reflecting badly upon them). And NO I don’t have a southern drawel (oddly enough)! LOL 😂 Even though I was born here I moved away after school and lived in Boulder, Austin, Seattle, Boston, Atlanta... We’ve enjoyed the opportunity of living by my parents and brothers/nieces for the last 4 years but looks like work will be relocating us again—possibly Chicago. Not sure yet.

Where you live is BEAUTIFUL! I love that area! Have driven through it many times.

Interesting how many South African Satsangis there! My in-laws live in Joburg and are blindly devoted but don’t attend Satsang there because they feel the atmosphere is too clinical. Which is said because they end up hanging around people who don’t share any of the same values. Humans are social animals. If one doesn’t find good associations through church or their religious community then they will find friendships elsewhere often with people who don’t share their same values. I guess that’s what happened to me...

[Sarah]

@777
I think I know you... 🤔 Kind words never hurt. ☺️

[Sarah]

Jim, my posts to you keep going to the spam folder! I’ll ask Brian to post the second one I addressed to you today (not the first one). 😊

[Jim Sutherland]

@Sarah,...I think your posts have posted. I understand about wanting to keep your exact location private. I did as well, until I retired. I have been posting on these kinds of chat sites for at least 20 years, and many Stalkers still stalk me, using different pseudo Avatars. Its difficult to stay Neutral, in these forums. The Exers hate me, when I post any thing positive regarding RSSB ( used to, at least, until my Dera Visit ), and the Fundy Satsangis hate me when I express my opinion about ........, well just about ANY opinion that isn’t Pro RSSB! As for you finding yourself on the Fence, and your Husband holding you up there on it , so you don’t fall off and commit Spiritual suicide for even “ thinking” any thing negative about GSD,, my advise is to just keep your thoughts to yourself when around your husband, and Fundy Satsagis, and don’t let Sant Mat destroy, or come between your love for your husband and yourself. My Wife has never been a Believer, but has never stopped me from doing what I do. I brought her with me to Sat Sang in Califirnia a couple of times, but she never had any interest at all to further explore, but she also never said any thing negative about them either. She did go to the Dera with me tho, in Oct., because she loves to travel. But she did not like it there, and felt incarcerated, as I did!! Being there, and reading the RSSB Books about it are quite different.
But all in all, continue to love your husband, and leave his fate, karma and Destiny to God, ( how ever you imagine God to be ), and you will keep Peace in your family. Let’s face it? Would you rather have your husband being an Atheist than a Satsangi?
Today is my Wife’s and my 57th Wedding Anniversary! She has distanced her self from all of my religeous activiies I have put her thru for 57 years, but has never distanced her self from me! 57 years together with out divorcing is a hard Act to follow! Ishwar Puri says that the QIICKEST way to burn the most Karma is to marry! I agree. 😇
Cheers,
Jim

[Sarah]

@ Jim

Jim that is beautiful! Happy Anniversary!! Thanks so much for the advice.

Enjoy the rest of your special day together.

Best,

[Sarah]

@everyone

Re: post “by Sarah | August 12, 2018 at 11:13 AM”

I apologize for such negativity. I’m really working hard on trying not to lash out at other people. Negativity seems to magnify 100 fold in my life when I’m not careful with my words.

Sorry... even if you didn’t find it offensive it’s not the type of energy I want in my life.

[777]

"" Yesterday I said he’d be a cool guy to hang out with—but that’s if he’s not in his Im the Master, it’s all about me mode (the lowest of the low, humble servant). ""

Hi Sarah
were U ever invited with HIM - or is this imagination or hear say

Also yr message on the Rose Garden . . . was it deleted really
We have so many photographs

On agressivity here, . . you sit not very high on the scale
You came to an anti rssb blog and now it shows fairley positive

777

ps
was your father a pilot?

[Sarah]

@777
Do you know why 6 was afraid of 7? Because 789. LOL 😂 😂
That joke never gets old,

No, I have never been invited to hang out with him... never spent any time with him except for a few min when I got an interview. It was very, very brief.

(FYI, you and I both are on an anti RSSB blog).

And I’m curious—regarding your other post—why would any being choose to come to this plane?? Why? I certainly wouldn’t...

You’re right though.

No, my dad wasn’t a pilot. Are you? Is that why you go by 777. LOL

[Sarah]

@777
I appreciate your opinions but am a bit surprised you took it so personally...

[Jen]

Sarah, I've had this feeling since you first arrived on this blog that you are South African and I've also been quite suspicious. I understand its not easy commenting and we have to be very careful with what we say about ourselves.

My family and I moved to New Zealand over 40 years ago and lived there for five years before coming to Australia and I have become a kind of loner now because of the reaction I get when people know what country I was born in and very bluntly judge me and call me a racist. Can't win. Even having changed my accent as quickly as possible and not telling anyone where I was born has helped although I simply don't trust anyone except my family any more. I think its a sh*t world and we are here on this planet to suffer but it can also make us strong beings in our own right.

I know I'm too sensitive about being negative but its good to acknowledge our own suffering and also releasing the negativity is a big help. Brian is like some kind of saviour because he allows us to speak our truth on this blog. I'm really fond of Jesse because to me he is a good example of someone just calling out the bs and I've always been too polite. I try to speak my truth and at the same time being careful of not hurting other people's feelings, its like a balancing act.

Anyway, just my thoughts,

Cheers

[Sarah]

Hi Jen,

I really appreciate you sharing that with me and empathize strongly with your situation. Actually, I’m not South African my husband is. And he and his family are Satsangis. Oddly enough, I never knew he was a satsangi until after we were married (that conversation did not go well).

Yes, my brother-in-law gets that reaction from people even here in the US when he visits us which is shocking to me. He and my husband were born mid ‘60s. They weren’t part of the “Born Free” generation which is a whole other situation... At least you are lucky enough to be living in Australia and not SA. It’s really tough there now, as you know. We just returned from South Africa a week ago.

Are your family members part of RS?

There’s a lot of little things about the path that have bothered me—things that I could have ignored. My Satsangi friends tell me “it’s a simple” path. But it’s not “simple” for those of us who have had very negative experiences on the path. I had an extremely negative experience during Satsang at Dera and since then (almost 4 years ago) have been really struggling to find a reason to stay on this path. I’ve tried and tried and tried but it hasn’t been resolved. I can’t do this anymore... if every satsangi had experienced what I experienced during a Satsang several years ago, there would be no Satsangis on the path. But of course, that’s not how the world works. We all have experienced unique to ourselves and no one can ever truly know exactly what it feels like to be someone else—to have all the cumulative experiences unique to each soul.

I asked GSD numerous times, but he never truly understood.

So, now I just have to deal with my family—my husbands family. Luckily my family doesn’t know much about RSSB but think it’s all a bit weird anyway (the whole guru thing).

When I’m finished with someone, I’m truly FINISHED with them... and I’m getting to that point.

Australia is on my bucket list! I’d love to chat with you more...

All the best,

Sarah

[Jim Sutherland]

Why does 777 use such an Avatar, and hide behind his pseudo Mask?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/777_(number)

😇
Jim Surherland

[777]

Jen
You told that 2 years ago - Is so sad and unbelievable
Why not to Europe
We are friendly people
7

[Jim Sutherland]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaner_Resistance_Movement

777’s pseudo Avatar

Jim Sutherland

[777]

""" (FYI, you and I both are on an anti RSSB blog).

And I’m curious—regarding your other post—why would any being choose to come to this plane?? Why? I certainly wouldn’t... """"

It is a mixture between addiction an equilbre

You come from a place where you see God at a distance ( like sunset )
and you feel so much the Love that you were willing to do everything to be a little closer
Next you understood that some troubles from the paste had to be solved first
and you plunged in this mafia planet where yr troubles originated
Btw probably you hv already read me saying that this is God doing it with himself - You are God and always were/are

At the start U installed a kind of justice system and equilibrum to have a honest playground

Nobody will fail in eternity -each one plays his part
the benefits are so much bigger than the negatives

777

PS
Nothing is mandatory
but what you stole you must first give back
an apple , a car, a wife ( in your case perhaps ) a planet
a galaxy
just give it back, be compassionate and the sound will carry you back to what you always were
And you can also stay - - for winning a lottery

[Sarah]

@777
My troubles didn’t originate here. So, why are you here? What karma do you have in France?