Why God is an illusion, along with other supernatural stuff

Here's a perplexing question: Why are so many people convinced that they've had an experience of God, or some other supernatural entity, when there is no demonstrable proof that these things exist?

Are these people lying? Some probably are, but not all. So the most likely explanation is that they've fooled themselves into believing that their divine experience was real.

How this happens is one of the subjects psychiatrist Ralph Lewis discusses in his fascinating book, "Finding Purpose in a Godless World: Why We Care Even if the Universe Doesn't." 

I've just started reading this book,  but can tell that I'm going to enjoy it a lot. Here's some excerpts from the initial 60 pages.

It is said that seeing is believing. But actually believing is seeing -- we often see what we believe to be there, misinterpreting our senses in illusory ways. Moreover, our senses are sometimes susceptible to complete hallucinations, creating perceptions out of nothing at all.

When people experience perceptions of non-actual reality, the last thing they are willing or able to believe is that those perceptions could have been due to their own brain malfunctioning -- their mind playing tricks on them...We give our subjective experience too much credence.

...Clearly we find our own subjective perceptions arrestingly compelling and are more willing to doubt the laws of physics than to doubt our own minds. People underestimate the capacity of our brains to create their own convincing realities.

They underestimate how powerfully realistic some dissociative experiences, hallucinations, and other well-recognized mental/neural misperceptions can seem. Come and sit in my office for a week and listen to people argue passionately (and even seemingly rationally) that their demonstrably implausible perceptions are real.

Then judge for yourself which explanation is more plausible -- that the bizarre experiences that you will hear described are actually real, or that the human brain can easily fool us into believing weird things.

...A scientifically valid hypothesis must therefore be constructed in such a way that the potential for it to be falsified is built into the hypothesis itself. In other words, it should be a hypothesis that is testable and that lays itself open to the challenge of potentially being proven wrong.

The hypothesis that all swans are white is falsifiable by finding a swan that is not white. In contrast, a hypothesis that there exists a green swan is unfalsifiable: it cannot be undermined by evidence because it is structured in such a way that it cannot be definitively disproved, no matter how many swans we find that are not green.

Supernatural and superstitious beliefs are almost invariably structured as unfalsifiable hypotheses. The existence of God is the green swan hypothesis. 

Psychiatric delusions are often also structured this way: the delusional person explains away evidence that contradicts the delusion by expanding and elaborating the delusion with additional layers of explanation.

For example, the doctor who points out the impossibility of the paranoid conspiracy against the patient must be one of the conspirators. Delusions typically cannot be reasoned away. 

Comments

[Jesse]

"the delusional person explains away evidence that contradicts the delusion by expanding and elaborating the delusion with additional layers of explanation."

I can't say I've fully un-culted myself, but I've spent many years attempting to locate and parse through the layers of delusional, or maybe hopeful, elaboration I've built up in my mind. It's all an effort to find which parts are true, which parts are worth holding onto if they serve a purpose, and which parts can be immediately discarded.

The only reason I have sympathy for those who hold on to the most absurd beliefs they've adopted is because I assume that what might be easily discarded and useless for me could serve as some kind of psychological safety net for others. It's understandable that one might need a supernatural object of devotion in times of severe stress and uncertainty. For some that object could be highly abstract, such as in something like Zen, and for others a human form might be necessary like in guru worship.

Seemingly people would likely be healthier if they were more cognizant of the purpose served by their worship instead of convincing themselves of its absolute truth, even going to the extent of attempting conversions and convincing others, but maybe being truly convinced of a supernatural presence is the only way this stuff is effective for most people.

Who knows. I'm just some dork on the internet who doesn't hear sounds, or see lights and guru ghosts too often.

[Arjuna]

Just a fleeting visit - you will be the Edward Snowden of this gjhf nonsense as he isn’t done no much to stem the tide - if fact saw a YouTube clip and wow the cartel ain’t protected like that lol. Your blog was curtains for them.

Do you think Oliver Stone will direct the movie 🎥? Ha. I would love Tom Hanks to play you in the movie. 😊

Have a great day all.

[Arjuna]

Just looking for truth - wherever that may be. But sure ain’t seeing it where I thought it would be. The path I chose has left me with anger seeing the worldly stuff going on. Just hope the Real God is listening to me and maybe even reading this - as all I wanted was peace. To find out who created my soul. Not billionaires - religare and ranbaxy and fraud trials. Fixing Bollywood stars up and much more. It doesn’t take an intellectual man to realise something is amiss. All the very best folks - we may in this journey all alone. If so - let’s make it a great one.

Love all

[Jesse]

"Fixing Bollywood stars up and much more."

That was an interesting thing, Arjuna. Supposedly RS doesn't get involved in marriages, but here was this highly publicized marriage with the RSSB name all over it, which as we know doesn't happen without consent. since the paparazi are hired publicists.

It came off as a business decision by RSSB to get more big name and big money followers. I'd guess (CONJECTURE!!!!) that it's due to guru competition. You got Sri Sri high voice and Sadhbuddhu in politics and the business of faux science siphoning off RS followers with better satsangs.

As far as your "what does it all mean?" existential issues, I think it's just a personality style. I have it too. I can't stop going to temples and reading about spiritual stuff. The way I've attempted to reduce harm caused by weird cults is to stay on the periphery of many at one time and not get caught up in the social stuff or believing anything just cause its comforting.

[D.r]

Ah, the hallucination theory again. I suggest you read the other alternative explanations because otherwise your viewpoint is biased.

[Arjuna]

Hey Jesse. Hello - yep google it shahid kapor and rssb marriage. I was shocked when I came across it. And yet we were told that we couldn’t have a shag before marriage when my generation was growing up. What a crock of shit.

It has been a long day - knackered and need rest. However. You know trump is getting stock for a lot of things. Rssb have been taking the piss now for over a 100 years. - and now they ain’t even hiding it. They will decry bad karma like trump does with his fake news .

I will read your response properly when my eyes are not so sleepy.

In a bit

[Jesse]

"otherwise your viewpoint is biased."

The go-to line for people who believe in yet another nonexistent entity which we call "neutrality."
Everything is biased to a degree. It's not a negative thing to have bias, otherwise known as perspective.

[One Initiated]

Arjuna,

By finding comfort in the grip of your mind again,
you are heading yourself on a path of spiritual depletion.

If you are really getting into a story,
I would suggest to try to get to the actual truth.

By generalising the film stars, celebrities,
and calling that RSSB is looking forward to associate with big celebrity names,
this all is just a plain false and doesn't have any gravity.
Just a new propaganda spread by the critics. They will repent it.

The Kapoor family (Shahid Kapoor) had long time family relations
since the time of the Great Master,
the great grand father of Shahid Kapoor, i.e. Dariyayi Lal Kapoor, (Great Master's disciple)
were the author of famous books in sant mat and was a great disciple.
his biography and his books are worth the read.
his wife Mira Rajput is daughter of a disciple volunteer from Delhi RSSB centre.

With your half baked comments,
you are doing nothing but just helping the propaganda.

You only mentioned the quotient of bollywood,
but you or no one mentioned anything about Dariyai Lal Kapoor,
I doubt if anyone even know anything of the history.

There is no end to fake news and faking up any natural family event.

This person Jesse, can attack even you at anytime, except Brian,
by the fear of not being thrown out of this space.
Jesse has decided to run on the path of enjoying the self disgust,
and the resultant of that is only hatred for everything and everyone.

Giving the affirmation on Jesse's comments,
and receiving same form him on your stupid analogies,
will only going to rot your inner conscience. Not worth it.

You will keep yourself filling with more and more hatred.
Get rid of it.

[D.r]

The go-to line for people who believe in yet another nonexistent entity which we call "neutrality."
Everything is biased to a degree. It's not a negative thing to have bias, otherwise known as perspective."

I don't believe in go-to lines. I think that is cheap prejudice that emanates from a shallow mind.

"we" is always a blockbuster.

The rest is poop.

[Arjuna]

@ one initiated - I am pretty much condemned already but it was nice if you to put me right.

I don’t have any strength left - I just wanted peace but found war as it comes to you when one is totally alone in this world.

Thank you nevertheless for clarifying - you gave me some advice recently an I failed. Just seeking hope brother that’s all.

Love Arjuna

[Arjuna]

& one initiated - I am not seeking any sympathy- just revealing myself warts and all. That takes strength perhaps madness.

Sorry for letting me down and you.

[Jesse]

"This person Jesse, can attack even you at anytime, except Brian,
by the fear of not being thrown out of this space."

I told Brian once that I was happy he and his generation were on their way out because I think their politics are pure insanity. But I didn't say it that nicely.He didn't kick me off his blog.

He's chill, but I'm not afraid to disagree (attack as you say) because I've been kicked off of Twitter 5 times and many other websites a lot of times. It's the internet and taking it seriously is a bad idea.

You should just let people come to their own conclusions. Arjuna is one of thousands of people who might think RSSB is shady. Let him believe that. Maybe he'll change his mind. Let him do that too.

Maybe a lot of us agree with the views presented on this site and have no reason not to dislike Gurinder and his bollywood friends. Maybe we think God is not real, or that if real, not fully manifest in the form of greedy Punjabi men.

Stop crying about it and stop worrying about me and what you percieve as my hateful nature. Worry about your life, your salvation and your internet butthurt problems, One. And if Brian will permit one hindi line id like to say to you- Apni to chalti hai. Teri kyon jalti hai?

[Jesse]

"Are these people lying? Some probably are, but not all. So the most likely explanation is that they've fooled themselves into believing that their divine experience was real."

This is such a simple thing, but it never occurred to me until now that the people I've known to have experienced the supernatural are always from places or families who also believe in it. I've known hundreds of Indians, and only met one who completely rejects religion and doesn't claim to have personally seen god or known someone who has.

Same goes for Catholics I've known. If they remain in the church, they might feel some divine vibrations.

I've never heard of anyone who had no belief in God, whose parents didn't believe, lived in a country where belief was very uncommon, but suddenly started seeing Jesus or Krishna everywhere. Almost everyone who seems to be so sure of the divine comes from a background of believers.

The exceptions to this are so rare that any religion that happens upon one instance of a supposed atheist to mystic visionary will write books about that person and use their story as much as possible. They milk it like a Ganesh Murthi with a tank full of milky tears.

[777]

Wow Jesse

What an endurance

On the emotional > it is 1 vs 1

On scientific / math it' 1 vs 10 vs
but that might be bcause there s : so little "sense"

Hééééé why not trying something else ?
but when u find the Truth don't convince Brian bcause then we have no blog anymore

Bryan will come next life ,

77
2 sevens is for worldly stuff

Jesse you write and write to the bride
saying there is no marriage

[Jesse]

777, I have no idea what you're attempting to communicate to me. Do you?

[Brian Hines]

Jesse, 777 is the perfect religious true believer. He makes no sense, but he is totally convinced that what he says is the gospel truth, even though there isn't anything to back up his unfiltered stream of meaningless words. I allow his comments to be published because any thoughtful person who reads them will think, "If this is what religion does to somebody, I don't want any part of it."

[tucson]

Sometimes 777 makes sense to me.

Reminds me of a crazy guy at the beach who went around singing "Merry go, merry go, merry go 'round" over and over for hours. Maybe he was profound.

I don't see the unlikelihood of God. Oh, probably the guy in the sky who controls everything and judges you is a little far fetched... a personalized supernatural entity, nah. But something else we can't understand with our puny minds (speaking for myself) like a natural non-entity, sure, I'm open to it.

[One Initiated]

Dear Brother Arjuna,

Neither I am offering any sympathy or peace,
But I do feel for you based on the account you provided of your personal life.

There is certainly no peace in the outside activities,
we may feel comforted for a while with the online help/companions
and a little more comforted with the onsite ones.

But eventually all the positivity of the supporting words whether online/onsite
will start to fade away with time, for they have only that much penetration capacity.

The inner bliss on the other hand, has a lasting impression.
It's taste once tasted, forever keeps your tongue feel it's sweetness.

The ultimate peace is only to be found within.
There is no peace outside. Even if it is, it's quite temporary.

Witness the case of Jesse, in his own words, he is living in a soothing place,
there is more calmness at 5PM there as compared to 3AM in India.
What lovely that place would be,
and what is the state of mind of Jesse ? Pitiful to say the least.
Why? because he is not inside -
he is just shouting out on the calm streets "where is Naam, there is no Naam"
ofc that is not outside on the streets, need to sit in the calmness and get immersed into it.

I know you have your faith shaken,
but then we decided to took it as an experiment but not based on the fait and just for the 40 days.
The target is to spend 2.5 hours daily for 40 days,
but to start with we can even experiment with only 15 minutes for continuous 40 days.

Brother, it's really extremely easy to get carried away with the negativity,
and in the same proportion it's difficult to follow a positive habit.

The negative habit is so tasty, easy to get into and works like venom in the end.
The positive ones are so tasteless in the beginning, extremely hard to get a continuity and in the end they proved to be the elixir.

May you get your strength back real soon.
Lots of love and inner peace to you brother.

[arjuna]

@ Brother One Initiated. Good morning.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write your response and can only say that every word you write is right. And the beauty of it is- you are writing those words for my own personal benefit. That's says a lot.

I will start tomorrow morning the 3am seeking peace again. It is the only way in a world which is changing and wont matter to us in 50 or 100 years time.

You are a good brother brother and may you have a great day.

PS I am sick and tired of negative people in my life and will avoid them like a plague. I let myself down and once again He always sends someone to put me right - time after time. Dr. Julian Johnson once said that we must guard again our own mental processes. And I will.

Lots of love and a big hug - you are a great brother!

[777]

Thank U Brian for the complement -
this is a delight - imagine you gave me the Nobel prize, . . that would make me depressed
Now I still stay the Lowliest of th LOwly with SkyRocket Highest Pleasures

Thank also Tuscon, Appreciated Reader, One Initiated and the many of Deep Silence and all others

To be compared with Rumi, although astounding over the top is so Ego Flattering :-)
Yes, this is my view, . . . ego is still available in case U need it
Next you go back to your Lovely Spouse Source to be overwhelmed, God Willing , . .
as they say ! !

The secret is that it is a Rhythm, like a Poem, and 2 steps UP , half a step DOWN, ... or any other Dance

Amazingly at that time Rumi, Hafiz, Guru Granth Sahib ji *10, , Kabir Sahib, Tulsi Sahib, Tulsi Daas ji, Ravi daas ji, Farid sahib, Naamdev ji, Sahajo bai, Pipa ji, Sultan Bahu, Soordaas ji, Dadu Sahib, Meera Bai, Bulleh Shah, Paltu Sahib, etc. Baba ji who all tell tell that all religions have one thing in common that is Word, as Jesus has said; or kalma in the Quran; shabad or naam as in adi granth or bange aasmani, ram naam, dhun as Hindi saints describe.

survived with their non-sense: called "makes no sense"
they heard all the time

Peace , Sound, Love to all

777

[One Initiated]

Dear Brother Arjuna,

Thanks very much for your kind words and love filled response.

"we must guard again our own mental processes"
Wow, that's a perfect one for this situation.

I wish and pray for your physical, mental and spiritual well being.
Trust me it's going to be amazing... just that it's going to take it's own require time.
It's a slow process, but we can make it faster and hyper fast by being consistent.
Always please remember consistency is the key.
There shouldn't be a day when we have not attended to our meditation.
HE is waiting for us with much more eagerness.

Isn't there any recent Satsang coming up in London ?
Attending to the Master's satsang and having graced by His darshan
is an amazing boost to the meditation (no books here, it's self experienced - always)

When we receive His darshan (only works when we are having love in our heart not doubts and allegations) - one time darshan is equivalent to the years of meditation.

Those who have posted their wonderful experiences of love here are not lying.

Always kill the negativity (the inner negative thoughts) by using
your Simran continuously - you will see after a few minutes, everything settles down.

And never get carried away with all this online negativity and propaganda
against the Masters.
The True Masters have always gone through these insults.
Take any example and you will find the same.

Your hug and warmth is very well received dear brother.
Please always carry this love in you,
and multiply it exponentially with your daily meditation. fairly possible!

Wish you an awesome time in your journey.

[Jesse]

Imagine seeing some guy ranting angrily about how everyone who isn't in his cult is burning in materialist hell giving advice about inner peace.

You satsangis are the epitomy of hypocrisy. One Initiated , you are not at peace spiritually or in this world, but you want to convince everyone that you know the secrets to inner peace.

If your lies do anything they prove that RSSB attracts and brainwashes depressed and impressionable people, but provides ZERO cases of helping or curing anyone.

It's a carrot and stick act. Keep dupes chasing the carrot forever, wasting their short precious life for the promise of a turbaned angel carrying them to heaven after death.

Sick cult. Sick dishonest people.

[Jesse]

"Those who have posted their wonderful experiences of love here are not lying."
Yes you are lying. You frauds only love what agrees with you. That's why you label my disbelief as "hate."
RS cult tells you to distance yourself from family and friends unless they join the cult, judge them as inferior people, and then to give your time, money and everything else to Ranbaxy Corporation.
Look at how you scream slurs at me. Is that your gurus love? If for one second I started showing some kind of desire to rejoin RSSB, you snakes would immediately begin calling me brother and talking about love again.
If there's a hell, it belongs to frauds and liars.

[Jesse]

"Reminds me of a crazy guy at the beach who went around singing "Merry go, merry go, merry go 'round" over and over for hours. Maybe he was profound."

Tucson, I had an acquaintance who "suffered" from some sort of schizophrenia and we had a lot of conversations about art and history. Every time we talked I found myself in a kind of severe self doubt because I didn't know if the guy was speaking to me in the most profound and poetic language ever uttered and I was too stupid to understand.... or if he was just crazy as hell and all the uncommon words and syntax were a symptom of his insanity.

That might be the only positive thing I can attribute to mental illness. Artful expression.

[arjuna]

@ One Initaited - consider it done! Its a personal reason why we travel this path or any path and I let myself down. But I will pull myself out of this hole as I always do.

Respect bro

[One Initiated]

No Jesse,

You are again grossly wrong.

You earlier said:
"you have nothing to prove and are simply experience unimaginable bliss that I can never experience"
point me to one single comment from me where
I mentioned that "you can never experience"
Why in the universe I or You or Anyone would think you can never experience?
Ofc it will require consistent efforts and HIS grace to experience it.
You can not expect the grace will come to you by abusing the Master.
It will only come by attending to your meditation regularly and
keeping your heart filled with love and compassion. Put your venom in the gutter.

Because of the complex grip of the mind you are in,
you are left with no capacity to perceive anything related to love.

A brother is always a brother,
even if he is wrapped in his own vomit from head to toe.
You're surely still a brother to me and in I still love you,
but you are currently full of hatred and abusive towards the Masters,
and anyone with the faith on the Masters,
Under this umbrella of hatred for everyone, you are not even appearing
to be in a state of discussing any valid rational or logical point.

With your current state of mind, you are not in a good state of being a communicable person.

I am always praying for you ever since I saw your first recent comment
of abuse you posted.

The kind of venom you are spitting out,
you leave no other way of communication for the other person,
than to first rock you with the same force,
only then the words starts to hit your ears.

When you say you are a non-believer, you've lost faith on RSSB,
that's all ok, that's your current stand, got it,
I don't have anything against you,
I would love to talk to you if you are really talking,
but I won't hesitate to kick in your ass,
if you are just always showing your ass instead of doing any talking.

If a hyper cranky child is continuously throwing objects on the sibling,
and his own shouts are making him deaf,
the only choice the other person is left with is slapping him first,
and then do the talking.
Even after giving the slap, the sibling still loves the little one.

You've completely lost your civic sense to communicate and do a healthy discussion.
The time anyone gets civic with you,
you start bombarding them with your ugly abuses.

You don't have the slightest idea what I've been through,
and what I am go through currently and what I go through when I attend HIS discourse.

Nobody is proving anything to you, because no one can prove anything to anyone.
Believers or non-Believers, everyone is here to find help or
to help someone, in their own capacity.
The child in you can think someone can install a camera in their heads.
You with only your own efforts and HIS grace will prove it if ever you will wish for that.

Your calling others liars is also not going to help you in
any slightest possible sense.
The other person is only going to smile at your accusations in return,
and look upon you in pity.

[Jesse]

"You don't have the slightest idea what I've been through,
and what I am go through currently and what I go through when I attend HIS discourse."

Nor do I care what you've been through. Nor do you care what I've been through. Nor is it relevant. This is about fake religion and RS's fake appeals to emotion to connive their way into suffering people's minds for the purposes of monetary and political gains.

So sorry, One. But to call fraudsters from The Ranbaxy Soami Beas corporation what they are is righteous hate. Hate is as real and fundamental to our humanity as love is. This pretense of an all encompassing peace and love bestowed on us by a man we'll never meet is fake and I don't buy it. I see no evidence for this love outside of RSSB propaganda films showing people with clinical depression crying when a con man walks onto a stage and recites claptrap about religions he knows nothing about. Saying bad things about the fake gurus and those who attempt to sucker others into their trap is a good thing.

The cult is a joke. Gurinder is a fraud. Charan was obsessed with gold watches with expensive leather bands. Sawan Singh wrote a book that basically said dead women were a blessing to some grumpy old slave of his(if you don't know this story you didn't read the old editions of RSSB books). These people are barely civilized and yet they demand to be called gods. They deserve to be hated just like MSG, Bapu et al.

It's top top to bottom garbage. Worse than when I stepped into a room full of Tibetan monks counting massive stacks of money in front of a bunch of big screen TV's. Those monks claim to hear crap and see mandalas of light too, but at least when that fantasy fades there's some worldly enjoyment to fall back on. In RSSB, the guru doesn't even share his corruption earnings. You get the fake spirit and dictatorially forced love experience, but no money. Pure theft.

There are no "masters." Only Punjabi guys FROM ONE FAMILY who love money and power always preaching that things common to many religious groups (audible life stream for example) are the sole property of RSSB. They can't even plagiarize properly. Chan Buddhists call it the Sound of Brahma or something, and you're not required to do anything, worship any man, or tithe to medical corporations to hear it.

If anyone is to be pitied here, it's those who are still ensnared in the maya called ranbaxy soami corporation.

Jail the opportunistic godmen and Make India Great Again.

[vinny]

God is an illusion but why the electrons are revolving in atom without any input of energy.
Probably some atheist has planted his carnal desires in it and the lust emanating from those desires is making the electron move. Bravo! you atheists deserve Nobel Prize for running this dirty tricks department to be fool innocent people.

[One Initiated]

"Nor do I care " As I mentioned, I know that already

On the contrary, as opposed to your prejudiced notion, I do really care.
And I've asked you many times what you've been through.
And you've always been sarcastic with the response,
even included further abuses along with sarcasm to the genuinely asked question.

And what a hypocrisy is this that one one hand you say there is no such thing as inner experiences, and all who says that are liars, and here you say you do not care.
What kind of attitude is that ?

To me it looks like you are extremely deeply hurt
(you hinted possibly by HIS response to your question),
and you are trying to hide your emotions by being a fake person online.
You are trying to hurt everyone in every possible way you can.
However, you failed badly at me.

So all what you mentioned above, is nothing new,
you've already mentioned everything,
and every point has already been explained many times.

I don't know which monk story you are mixing up here with mentions of RSSB.
That was truly nonsense.
If you randomly visit some fake monastery in tibet - what can you expect.
Correlating it with RSSB was funny and non-sensical.

So, is that all ?

Yes, more fake gurus will be exposed, of the kinds you mentioned.

Yes, after what all you mentioned on RSSB Masters (each point already clarified earlier),
RSSB is a True Path and RSSB Masters are True GIHF Masters.
Baba Gurinder Singh Ji Maharaj is the True Living Master
And many many persons have experienced HIS bliss and grace.
And those who have already experienced HIS grace are not even slightly shaken up by your fake comments.

And now a good news for you:

Even if you carry your current attitude,
You'd still be welcome at the gates,
however, for some - the journey might include the bulldozer dragging,
but after that everyone is going to receive the same.

[arjuna]

@ One Initiated. I know of Bull Dollzer dragging. I have seen it with my own eyes at the death of three old people - Lord have mercy and I don't want to see that ever again. Whatever is on the other side is not always nice. And I wont say anything more or expand- but by Christ they do make an entrance here.

I don't in this crap there is no God- that is due to our bad sins and heavy karma- when He throws (born again) people into lives where there is war, disease, hunger. I am afraid most will not have anything to so but pray to HIM!!!

I don't agree with Brian. I believe there is a God. Thats my choice.

Amen and the Lords Peace

[Jim Sutherland]

Imagine a highly educated, bright young Mythicist Author, who spent her life writing Books about Jesus and Moses as Myths that never existed. She had a very large following, of Atheists like in this Church who believed God is an Illusion. I had quite a few Email exchanges with her, and she never disrespected me, as I was old enough to be her father. She was very proud of her Books, and sent me quite a few pdfs for free. I also bought and read her Books on the Christ Conspiracy, Moses Never Existed, and The Suns of God, among others. But ironically, I got a letter from her soliciting money to fund her Medical treatment on a rare form of Cancer that came on her from seemingly from no where unexpectedly. It took a rapid toll on her, as she kept us informed via emails, but there was no treatment that slowed her cancer down, including Chemo, and she died about 6 months after diagnoses as I remember, or close. About $60,000 was raised by her followers for treatment, but it never saved her. The Lady who denied the existence of Jesus died on his celebrated Birthday of December 25! Coincidence?
Not for me to decide.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acharya_S

[Jen]

We live in a data information system. Our brains create our reality.

Somehow, within each of our brains, the combined activity of many billions of neurons, each one a tiny biological machine, is generating a conscious experience. And not just any conscious experience — your conscious experience right here and right now. How does this happen? Answering this question is so important because consciousness for each of us is all there is. Without it there’s no world, there’s no self, there’s nothing at all.

So perception — figuring out what’s there — has to be a process of informed guesswork in which the brain combines these sensory signals with its prior expectations or beliefs about the way the world is to form its best guess of what caused those signals. The brain doesn’t hear sound or see light. What we perceive is its best guess of what’s out there in the world.

We’re all hallucinating all the time, including right now. It’s just that when we agree about our hallucinations, we call that reality. . . . [so] your experience of being a self, the specific experience of being you, is also a controlled hallucination generated by the brain.

[Jesse]

One, if I remember correctly, RSSB's god was on the board of directors of Ranbaxy when they repeatedly and knowingly sold dangerous contaminated medicines.

Some monks watching dumb Bollywood songs onTV and doing side business is a bit less corrupt than that.

Gurinder could rape every woman alive and you'd make excuses for him. That's happened at other deras and ashrams though so you wouldn't be alone in your level of denial and obsession.

Calling a man you've never met "God" and a "living master" is just weird in the modern world. There's no way to verify that claim , inner lights and sounds or not. You were told he's god, you were having problems in life, and it was a way to distract yourself. That's at least the standard RSSB story.

Paramhansa Yogananda, another surat shabd yog practitioner, had affairs with women in usa, and fathered children that he never took care of. A lot of dupes still call him god but people of any value who have even an ounce of honor would call him a degenerate a**hole.

You're all liars and frauds. If you weren't, you wouldn't be here arguing with me. You'd be experiencing internal spiritual bliss.

[Jesse]

"The brain doesn’t hear sound or see light. What we perceive is its best guess of what’s out there in the world."

Ok, but we can create accurate analogs. So it's not just our brains, but magnets, coils of wire and various other instruments which capture and recreate the same things which we perceive.

When a video camera or tape recorder captures "whatever is out there" the picture or sound is nearly identical to what we originally saw with our eyes and heard with our ears. It's not like we see a red square, but during a recording it becomes a goat.

Were these vibrations so mysterious, wouldn't we have trouble recreating them with simple machines?

The machine's best guess is the same as our brains best guess.

[Jen]

The brain interprets what we see in photos. Pattern recognition.

[One Initiated]

Like I said, you are a child,
and you'll be loved even if you are covered in your own vomit from head to toe.

You don't remember anything Jesse,
The only thing you need to remember is your Simran.

The only thing you need to listen to is the sweet Sound,
not the garbage of your mind.

You won't succeed in the propaganda you are trying
to create using the space on this blog.

Nobody is arguing with you,
I am just handling a cranky and abusive child.

[Jesse]

"The brain interprets what we see in photos."

Well, as I said about sound earlier, it's frequency and wavelength of molecules in motion. Basically the same goes for light as far as wavelengths go, though light is a lot more complex.

So part of it is how the brain interprets these things, but the substance isn't unknown. Tape prints pieces of silver analogous to the air moving. An electric signal plays that same sound. These things can be transferred from one medium to another. Ten people hear a tuba, and nobody hears a tuba as a bird singing. What is the mystery?

[Jesse]

One Initiated,

You've never heard a sound sweet enough to tempt you away from internet arguments with me let alone powerful enough to drag your consciousness out of your body and into a heaven full of turbaned businessmen.

My arguments are more attractive than an RSSB guru's darshan, which I always knew, but I'm happy you're proving it.

This is a scientific fact repeatedly demonstrated by satsangis who spend much more time talking to me when they could be seeing "the master within."

Brian, I think this is something to be proud of for you. If I, a no name commenter, am more important to satsangis than their own guru, then you're like a Lao Tzu. It does feel kind of good to know that the god of Religare can be outdone by small timers.

Forget your science of the soul, people. That's old news. This is the science of the troll, and I'm Einstein.

Worship me. Send me money. I'll share the income for amazing things like Buddha Brian's Leisure fund.

Your new 5 words are "What is Jesse's Bitcoin Address?"

Jesse Out.

[One Initiated]

That's ok Jesse,
It's understood that you're no longer left with any constructive
and useful discussions anymore, you never had one in fact.

You can keep on posting any crypto absurd
as long as Brian is allowing you.

Dear Arjuna,
Yes, I've witnessed the same.
I hope that no one should set himself/herself for that.

Dear Jim,
Thanks for sharing that inspirational account.

Dear Sister Jen,
We are only not hallucinating when we are behind the eyes,
when we realise the frequency of breath has gone joyously low.
and we live in every second - and that every second appears to be so much stretched.

That is the time we experience the Time Dilation.
And that is Love but hallucination.

[Arjuna]

@ Jim. Hey hello. So good to read your words - you have such a way - it’s awesome.

I want to take this opportunity to apologise to you and Spencer if I was an ass previously. I have have done some deep thinking over the last day and can only say sorry if I ever offended. You were right about loads of things and I take my hat off to. And you and spencer only gave words of encourage.

@ One Initiated - respect brother. I have no more words to say but rather that Nike slogan “just do it!”. Action 😊

God bless all of you.

[Arjuna]

Oh oh @ sister Jen - I did not mean to forget you. You wrote something when I said I was leaving this blog and your words lifted me right up. Thank you.

You too are awesome. You just remember that please.

Have a great day.

[Jen]

Hi One Initiated and Arjuna,

Nice to feel like a sister to you guys, keep up the positivity, it helps a lot :)

[Arjuna]

@ Jen - you are a sister and I meant it. Now go and have a great and glorious day whatever you are doing.

I’m going for my 8 mike run. Old military life habits is hard to give up sometimes.

[Appreciative Reader]

One Initiated, I was going through your exchanges here, and methinks you may perhaps have got it all wrong.

I wonder if you’d take a look at a comment I’ve just now posted, under the thread just preceding? (Here’s the link to the comment : http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2018/07/ive-got-a-new-non-religious-mantra.html?cid=6a00d83451c0aa69e2022ad3a58cd4200b#comment-6a00d83451c0aa69e2022ad3a58cd4200b .)

I think we’ve sorely misjudged "Jesse", all of us here. Jesse is neither an RSSB-hater, nor a racist. He’s simply a troll. (And no, I mean that quite literally, I don’t mean that as a put-down or insult for Jesse.)

I don’t think Jesse holds any sincere beliefs at all. (That is, again, I don’t mean that as some kind of indictment of his character. I only mean that I believe he isn’t discussing anything in earnest here. What he’s expressing here, I don’t think those are his sincerely held opinions at all.)

With most folks here on this site, it is religion that is the trigger. He’s found that he can press the buttons of many people here by dissing RSSB, so that’s what he does here. With me that particular button, religion, won’t work, but racism is something I hold strong views on : and in that other thread that I linked to, he’d latched on, quite at random, to a racist POV, and when he found me getting involved in a discussion about that racist idea of his, then that’s what he chose to double down on it, repeatedly. Not to actually back his idea with evidence, but simply to try to get a rise out of me. I’m sure if he’d found here someone whose political leanings are decidedly liberal, then no doubt the pose he’d assume would be rabidly right-wing! Pressing people’s buttons, that’s his thing, and that’s all there is to it.

And he’s a good and intelligent performer. I’d fallen for his racist pose hook, line and sinker, I freely admit. Although in my defense, it didn’t take me too long, after initially having been fooled, to catch on to that act.

Read that comment I’ve referred to, if you will, and think about what I said. Like I said, trolling seems to be by far the likeliest explanation of his behavior here.

And like I said, I don’t say this to put him down. I mean this literally. I’m not saying “Look, he’s a troll” as some kind of an insult directed at him, not in the least! After all, a troll is a harmless enough person. Think of him as a performance artist. All he does is just rile you up, provided he succeeds in taking you in. No harm done, really. And if you can clearly recognize him for the troll that he is, then you can actually appreciate his performance and be entertained by it.

The point is, it is foolish to take a troll seriously. You may ignore him if you wish, or you may “feed the troll” and engage with what he says here if you like, that’s your choice entirely, but what I’m saying is, don’t make the mistake of taking him seriously.

Instead of going to such pains to try to respond to him again and again and again, it would probably be wiser to just chill, and to simply enjoy the performance he’s putting up here, without taking anything he says at all seriously.

This is just a friendly heads-up, One Initiated, that’s all! Please, do not feel in any way obliged to follow the course of action I’m recommending, just because I’ve reached out to you. It’s perfectly cool with me if you yourself end up coming to a different conclusion about this than I do. I’m not writing this comment now in order to gang up on Jesse or to organize a “let’s all of us ignore Jesse” themed party, it’s not that at all! I saw you being taken in completely by what I believe is Jesse’s play-acting, and thought it might be of help to you if I shared my own conclusion with you. Just consider what I’ve said, read that earlier comment of mine that I’ve linked to, then form your own independent opinion yourself, and act accordingly.

Cheers!

[Jesse]

Appreciative Reader,

Your appreciative reading of my performance has been appreciatively read, but you're incorrect.

I sincerely believe that RSSB is an extremely unhealthy cult and that Gurinder Singh along with his family are likely involved in financial crimes. Also that most RSSB adherents are lying to themselves, as well as lying to others and working as unwitting proselytizers because there's a sort of "reverse psychology" at work in the cult.

I also sincerely believe that genes play a part in intelligence because no physical organ can be 100% the product of environment. It would be retarded to not believe that any human trait isn't in some way affected by genes. Or as you would emote "RACISM!"

Yes, I'm trolling in a sense, but trolling isn't an absence of belief. It's a beautiful science and art.

This isn't a pro-RSSB support group we're commenting on, as many of the sensitive people here wish it were. On RSSB.org, which I've heard is the most holy space online, nobody will hurt your feelings by insulting your guru.

[One Initiated]

hi Appreciative Reader,

Yes, I almost completely agree with you.
Jesse fulfils every requirement of being a troll artist.

But surely he is also doing a lot of harm,
And he is setting himself up for a heavy thing.

Jesse, it's only about the time,
currently you are enjoying,
but what you are doing,
the results of that are not going to be easy.

[Appreciative Reader]

Quote Jesse : Your appreciative reading of my performance has been appreciatively read

Thank you, Jesse.

I sincerely believe that RSSB is an extremely unhealthy cult

Perhaps.

I also sincerely believe that genes play a part in intelligence because no physical organ can be 100% the product of environment. It would be retarded to not believe that any human trait isn't in some way affected by genes.

Gene ≠ Race.

More wordy version :

A discussion on genes is very different from a discussion on racism. The nature-vs-nurture debate is wholly different from a discussion on racism. You’ll simply trolling again, I know. I know you aren’t so stupid and so ignorant as to actually believe that establishing the causality of genes directly and necessarily establishes the racist argument (that Scandinavians are more intelligent than Ethiopians). I’m sure you fully realize that the fact that some genes (e.g., those that impart hair color and texture) are racially distributed does not mean that all genes (e.g., those that contribute to intelligence) are racially distributed. While such could be the case (and one would accept such given convincing evidence), nevertheless this is by no means self-evident.

You’re obviously trolling when you forward these stupid arguments, by baiting me to step in to hit out of the park these loose balls that you throw to me.

Yes, I'm trolling in a sense

Thank you for so directly and so gracefully acknowledging this.

And it’s cool, so far as I am concerned. Yes, the word “troll” tends to be used in a pejorative sense in online discussions, but I think trolling generally -- and, in particular, what you’re doing here -- is simply a kind of performance art. You’re spending time doing this because this seems to entertain you ; and I’m reading (some of) your comments because they entertain me as well. All good.

trolling isn't an absence of belief

I never said it is. See my comment addressed to One Initiated. I say this clearly there : I don’t mean to imply, when I say you’re a troll, that this is indicative of some kind of deep-rooted character flaw in you that precludes any sincere beliefs.

No reason why trolls shouldn’t have beliefs of their own. And no reason why some of the things that trolls troll about shouldn’t actually happen to be about things they really believe in.

It's a beautiful science and art.

That’s probably going too far, if you literally mean that. But sure, I agree that effective trolling requires a good bit of skill and subtlety, not to mention a great deal of effort. And you’ve put in an admirable performance here, yourself, by volunteering a prodigious amount of time and energy.

I appreciate that, and am enjoying your performance here.

On RSSB.org, which I've heard is the most holy space online, nobody will hurt your feelings by insulting your guru.

Again with the trolling!

Except this time the trolling is less subtle, and more hit-and-miss insult-that-appears-not-to-be-an-insult. And except for the fact that it’s a clear miss this time.

GSD isn’t my guru (unlike many others who comment here), and criticizing him doesn’t hurt my feelings. I’ve posted many a comment here myself on this blog, criticizing such things about him as I felt seemed indefensible (including the apparent financial irregularities within that Indo-Jappo pharma deal that’s been written about so extensively and that’s currently sub judice).

Nor do I have any hang-ups about religions in general. (That is, I am open to some of them perhaps holding elements worth discovering ; and I am fully cognizant of the immense harm that some of them clearly do perpetrate. But neither am I a fervent pro-religionist, nor am I a rabid anti-religionist.)

I’m afraid that attempt of yours at sarcasm, that attempted subtle insult, was a waste of effort. Sorry, that trigger won’t work on me!

(But don’t let that dishearten you, you and I haven’t interacted enough for you to have known that about me. It’s perfectly understandable that, seeing me on friendly terms with One Initiated, you assumed me to be religious too, and proceed with your trolling on that assumption.)

[Appreciative Reader]

Hey, One Initiated.

Sure, if you feel he’s doing harm with his trolling, and if you feel the need to correct that harm by posting counter-arguments, you go ahead and do that.

As you see, I’m not averse to occasionally responding to him myself. No reason why not!

Like I said, this isn’t about responding to him or not responding to him. It’s about the meta-understanding behind these responses to his trolling : I just wanted to alert you that you were being trolled, and being taken for a royal ride on this thread, that’s all.

[Jesse]

Races, ethnicities, gene pools. Synonyms in many practical ways.

Either way, you're not going to read research that scares you even if it has more than adequately addressed all of your objections for many years.

My original point was less that these shared genes are a cause (even though they are) but that religion is often not a cause. That's not as controversial and nobody has been indoctrinated to immediately reject it without studying the topic.

In the most simple terms- Christianity, or any religion, is an insufficient environmental factor to overcome many innate traits.

[Jesse]

And no, this isn't about superficial traits necessarily correlating with any other biological function. You're right.

But though unnecessary, the truth of the correlation still stands.

I'm going to get some kenyan coffee right now.

[Appreciative Reader]

Races, ethnicities, gene pools. Synonyms in many practical ways.

Non sequitur.

That races and ethnicities share certain gene pools does not imply that every characteristic that comes from genes is necessarily related to race.

To claim this in the absence of evidence is textbook racism.

Either way, you're not going to read research that scares you even if it has more than adequately addressed all of your objections for many years.

How on earth would you possibly know what I would read and what I wouldn't?

My original point was less that these shared genes are a cause (even though they are) but that religion is often not a cause.

Oh no it wasn't. Your original statement, the point that I objected to, was that Scandinavians are more intelligent that Ethiopians. That statement, unless you can clearly back it up with evidence, is racist cant, pure and simple.

That's not as controversial and nobody has been indoctrinated to immediately reject it without studying the topic.

You're getting incoherent now.

I suppose you're trying to accuse me of rejecting your thesis without studying it?

While that's one way of looking at it, you realize how the religious can use exactly this argument to tell you that you haven't adequately studied religion before rejecting it?

That isn't how rational discourse (or rational thought) works. You don't need evidence in order to not accept a hypothesis. (Although sure, you may spend time studying it if that is what you want to do.)

You make a claim, you need to back it up with evidence. If you can't produce that evidence, then we don't accept your claim. That simple.

If you make a claim, you cannot wish away the burden of proof that that places on you. Not if you have any pretensions at all to rationality.

In the most simple terms- Christianity, or any religion, is an insufficient environmental factor to overcome many innate traits.

That sentence is garbled nonsense.

I remember the original context. Vinny had claimed (or at least implied) that it is Christians who had harnessed electricity, that Sufis lack that basic capability.

I agreed fully with your argument, in my comment addressed to Vinny, that this is nonsensical in every which way. Religion has nothing to do with the ability to harness electricity, obviously, or in general to make scientific and technological discoveries.

What I objected to was the racist comment you added to that original argument, clearly stating your belief that Scandinavians are more intelligent than Ethiopians.

.

But WTF, here I go again, earnestly and at length discussing racism with our Jesse!

*Switches off from earnest mode, returns to smiling away at Jesse's lovely trolling technique*

[Appreciative Reader]

*Takes bait, returns to earnest-discussion mode*

.

And no, this isn't about superficial traits necessarily correlating with any other biological function. You're right.

Thank you for acknowledging this.

But though unnecessary, the truth of the correlation still stands.

So you claim. But I won't accept your claim unless you can back it up, you know.

And nor should you yourself, even in my absence, subscribe to random beliefs like these unless you have evidence, provided rationality is something you like to base your worldview on. (And, should you actually have done that, that is, should you actually have based your beliefs on evidence, then it shouldn't be so very difficult to produce that evidence when someone requests you for it!)

I'm going to get some kenyan coffee right now.

All right, time out! Enjoy your coffee, Cheers!

[Jesse]

"How on earth would you possibly know what I would read and what I wouldn't?"

Cause I've given you the name of the same book over and over again and you aren't going to read it.

As I said, 100% of your objections have been addressed a million times and the rebuttal "textbook" racism won't change that.

Call NASA racist if you want, but all its findings during space travel are the same.

That word has no meaning, and the only reason you say it is because you're a virulent racist trying you hide your blatant racism.

[Jesse]

Here's THE thing about "science" and the inability of mankind to be reasonable. Whether or not it's good for us, humans have all kinds of emotional and faux-moral weaknesses that can be easily manipulated by clever people.

Whether we're talking about the the truths concerning the most obvious and glaring differences in human populations, or we're talking about the likely falseness of a meditation cult, the majority of people seek to reason morally before ascertaining truth.

So, in going back to the topic of this post on the supernatural, every day on this blog, there are commenters who object to criticism of their cult on what they feel are moral grounds. Things like "keeping the peace" or "being fair" etc. Truth is not on most people's list of priorities. Affirmation and ego satisfaction is, and that is easier accomplished by agreeing with the popular tropes of our time, or in the case of cult members, keeping the discussion surrounding the cult positive.

In practice this means possibly lying to keep the internal social order of the cult, so that while people can't help to reveal or imply that they're not experiencing supernatural phenomena, they are compelled to assure others of the existence of the supernatural, or use guilt, shame and other emotional motivators to discredit doubters.

None of this is to say that the motivation to place people into in-groups and out-groups isn't valuable, or that there aren't truths in these processes themselves, but that other truths and falsehoods can't be ascertained by the application of moral preferences.

Photosynthesis is photosynthesis even if you think that admitting to the existence of photosynthesis is evil.

Similarly, Gurinder Singh is a man or a god, regardless of if I say he's a bastard, or if you call him a salvation granting saint. We only have the evidence, and in this case, the evidence points to his undeniably non-transcendent humanity.

[777]

A R
What a time lost

Since some time and it knows , . . I read it's last lines only

That's more than the last 10 book publication it visited have read, and who refused its publication

These refusals make TAMAS things seeking innocent victims or victims
it's sure will not defend like a Saint
Others will take it seriously for a few hundred words,

it is a kind of gollem,

Equally it might find tomorrow a best-cook forum and do the same

Swami Vivekananda : tamas will only react on fear, . . not on love
destruction is their only thing

777
-

[Jesse]

777, what is your first language?

Your answer should not be longer than one word.

[adam balm]

To be disillusioned is to see an illusion for what it is. Once you realize how easily you can be deceived by an appearance, you learn to look more closely at everything, always questioning, doubting, never being convinced of anything, knowing that a good illusionist can always deceive a credulous or inattentive mind.

[777]

-

ਪਿਆਰ

IS the word

-

[Jesse]

I was gonna write "don't write love." But you had to do it, in gurmukhi no less. What a tool you are.

You're so annoying 777. Most definitely the worst person who comes to this blog.

Right here let me tell everyone, there is almost zero chance that 777 has ever had any superconscious experience of any kind, or that he has some supreme love of any guru.

777 is just a weirdo on the internet wasting time like everyone else and his way of expressing his inflated ego is to write cryptic junk about how above it all he is. But he isn't above anything. He's just self-obsessed.

[One Initiated]

Jesse: "I was gonna write "don't write love.""
You were gonna write, what other person should NOT write ?
Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy!!!!
And says the other person has inflated ego.

You, who claims to never had any experiences,
are telling about others' experiences details and validity ?

I am sure you must have explained your father how to fuck !

[Jesse]

One Initiated, 777 isn't very creative which is why I predicted how he'd respond to my direct question. You must have missed that part where he said exactly what I knew he'd say.

You're pretty dumb tbh, and illiterate too? Sad.

For someone capable of traversing the astral realms, you have a bad anger problem. Try RSSB.Org It might help you overcome your anger issues.

[Jesse]

"You, who claims to never had any experiences,
are telling about others' experiences details and validity ?"

By the way, I have had many experiences during meditation. Who told you I hadn't? I just don't care about them.
Please seek medical help. You seem dangerously unstable.

[One Initiated]

Don't worry Jesse,

Brian has already deleted my comment,
so you don't need to clarify or cover yourself now.

So Brian,
what you didn't like in the comment, the F** word ?
which you've used many times ?

[Jesse]

I can't speak for Brian, obviously, but people can sense some sort of tone online. My tone is certainly not polite, and as I've told you all before, I'm a professional at getting kicked off of forums and websites so I sort of know how it goes. Here, I'm much more careful.

Your tone seemed unduly aggressive and unhinged, and for what reason? As a professional receiver of ban hammers, I can tell you that you'd have been kicked off a lot of sites for that comment. It's hard to explain why, but doing the "YOU DO IT TOO" thing certainly won't help you. It's the worst thing to do, actually.

But again, why are you so upset that I think 777 sucks? Why do you care that I'm talking about the RSSB cult negatively? That is the reason this site exists. Churchlessness. There are RSSB forums where you can talk positively about your guru unchallenged.

Look at the title of this post- Why God is an Illusion. Now compare that to not only the comments by you and 777, but also to the extreme defensiveness of you guys. Would you walk into a butcher shop and start yelling at the customers for eating meat? Would I walk into a vegetarian restaurant and complain that there was no beef?

Get it together, man. Or do as I've suggested 1000 times and stay close to your guru and read RSSB.Org every single day. If our conversations agitate you so much, why are you not avoiding the site and meditating instead? This is your guru's instruction anyway.

[Brian Hines]

One Initiated, I was trying to save you some embarrassment. But since you want me to publish your comment, I did. You told Jesse, "I am sure you must have explained your father how to fuck !"

Me, I've never said anything like that, and I never will. Because I treat people with more respect than you do. Shame on you for what you said. Or maybe you have no shame.

I draw the line at commenters insulting other commenters' family. That's really low. But since you're proud of yourself, the comment is published.

Now, why don't you tell us your real name, and where you live? Since you're so proud of how you treat other people, let's let the world know who you are. But I bet you won't do this, because you're a coward who hides behind a fake name.

[Bob]

One initiated get some medical help.
You fell deep down. even as a satsangi i tell you you are very rude.
Jesse i am a satsangi and like baba ji but am totally with you my friend.
Jesse you dont bother any Real satsangi with your comments it is free land to have opinion. But One onitiated your representation of surat shabd yoga is not what this yoga really is. I could ask you only one small qouestion and would know where you are on the inner game but i dont need to ,cause you revealed much of your shades by yourself. People, thats why Gurinder gave advice to not discuss on the net because he knew how some satsangis will behave...like 777 and One initiared. Gurinder never disliked critics like Jesse or Brian. Gurinder gave advice for people like 777and OI to protect them of not put them self into such a big shame like 777 OI did. OI and 777 you did not listen Gurinders advice...you are the ones who criticize your selfs. And in between, you also insult other humans just because they are critical. 777 OI i will not discuss further with you cause i know you will not take my words seriously and i dont want to indulge in your endless insulting debates. You faild the test and i hope for you, you will realize this soon and i wish you well on the way out of this false yoga of yours (dark insulting other people) cause this is NOT surat shabd yoga at all.

[One Initiated]

Thanks so much for reposting the comment, Brian.

And thanks for your concern, I value that.

Ofc, I also never ever never even think of saying millions of things
which you've said on your blog.
Just like you, I am also trying to save you and Jesse from some embarrassment.

Medical help, hmm ?
How touchy we get when we feel disrespected, right Brian ? right Jesse ?

Read the dictionary and just find the meaning of one word: Hypocrite.

[Jesse]

One Initiated ,

You remind me of women in losing arguments or young children when they get caught doing something bad.

" No I'd didn't, YOU did!"

Or the classic

"I'm not doing anything but trying to help you."

Super sad to see you so butthurt, but as a former RSSB cult member myself I can't say I don't understand. That denial and sensitivity was once a big part of my life too.

If the "master" can't even transform our most basic characterer flaws, what is he capable of that doesn't include hiding massive amounts of illicitly procured stock and currency in accounts under his wife and other family members names?

Jesse

[One Initiated]

With or without arguments, You are still the same Jesse.
Even then you are losing every time.
You're failed over and again.

Don't be sad Jesse,
the problem is grossly different than what you perceived.
you totally miss the comprehension.

maybe you've good vocabulary (claimed not proven yet)
but surely bad comprehension which you always prove.

You got it wrong even in the phrase, mine for you is:
"I am doing everything to help you"

And I am quite sure, it will help you one day.
Be courageous to come back here to admit and amend the mistakes.
It will help you speed up further.

[Jesse]

Ah, jeez. You're right.

I'm so sad, One.

So sad that you can't find anything more cool to worship than a businessman who loves gawking at naked European women from afar like a creep but is too afraid to talk to them.

I'm so, so sad.

There are a bunch of easy if/thens you can work through to decide if your guru guy is legit based on the printed manuals they hand out.

If you're not morally upright, then you're not capable of ascending to heaven. If you're not ascending to heaven, then you're not a sant sat guru. If you love staring at tiddys and chasing money, then you're not morally upright etc etc etc.

God is an illusion. Gurinder Singhs moral flaws are real. If the guru is a hornball, the chela is a supreme dupe.

[Appreciative Reader]

Quote Jesse : Cause I've given you the name of the same book over and over again and you aren't going to read it. --- As I said, 100% of your objections have been addressed a million times and the rebuttal "textbook" racism won't change that.

I see that you’ve totally ignored the actual meat within my comment. I wonder why you do that, since neither I nor you have any need to follow RSSB’s particular proscription on eating animal flesh? ;-)

You’ve wholly ignored the part where, in my comment, I clearly demolish that argument around genes that you’d been holding up for some time. What you do is cherry pick one small portion of my comment, a small portion that is a side note as it were to my comment proper, and respond to it, probably because that’s the only part of my comment that you could frame a somewhat coherent response to. I’ll get to responding to this comment of yours, but before that, let me take the time to applaud your trolling technique, as clearly demonstrated here.

In anyone else, this kind of dishonest discourse would have resulted in some amount of consternation on my part. But we all know you’re a troll. I’ve clearly and with evidence proved that you’re a troll, and you’ve yourself clearly admitted that you’re a troll. So all that remains is for us to enjoy and to applaud your performance.

I’d posted another comment here last time, where I touch on this “meat” I refer to, that is, to responding to (and clearly demolishing) your gene argument. In that comment I’d also appreciated, at some length, your lovely trolling technique. I’ve just now bumped up that particular comment, and I’m now linking to that bump-comment of mine : you may like going through the comment immediately preceding the target of this link. Here’s the link : http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2018/07/ive-got-a-new-non-religious-mantra.html?cid=6a00d83451c0aa69e2022ad3a6bc54200b#comment-6a00d83451c0aa69e2022ad3a6bc54200b .

Getting back to your actual comment, such as it is (and I’ll quote it again, below, before responding to it) :

Quote : Cause I've given you the name of the same book over and over again and you aren't going to read it. --- As I said, 100% of your objections have been addressed a million times and the rebuttal "textbook" racism won't change that.

Do you really not see the utter fallacy of this line of argument?

Let’s say the theist tells you that your disbelief in God, and specifically his particular God, stems simply from your ignorance, and insists that there’s lots of evidence for his God, and you have only to read up the works of St. John (Dark Night), and Fenelon, and St. Teresa (of Avila, not the more recent one), not to forget Meister Eckhart and Thomas Aquinas. This theist insists that you go to the trouble of procuring and going through these books, and insists that all the arguments you put forward against theism have already been addressed there, and that all the evidence that you demand have already been presented there. He himself -- this hypothetical theist you’re debating with -- is unable, himself, to put forward these arguments himself, nor to himself present this evidence, but insists that these are clearly presented in those books that he’s referring to, and demands that you read them.

Do you see the fallacy now? Sure, if the subject itself interests you, then you may, despite not being a theist, read all of these books, and more, why not? Despite being a non-theist you may research this subject to your heart’s content, if this is a subject that for whatever reason draws you. But in as much as your theist interlocutor insists that he’s being rational in presenting this argument to you, he is mistaken.

Just as you, Jesse, are being irrational in making your argument. You are unable, yourself, to make the argument for your racist thesis (that would lead to us accepting that Scandinavians are smarter than Ethipoians), nor are you able to present your evidence yourself. You simply point out your finger towards some book, again and again, insisting that that book answers all anti-racist arguments, and insisting that it contains the evidence that will prove your thesis.

We have one of two possibilities. Either you’re really ignorant of how the process of rational thought works and honestly do not see how your approach goes in the face of accepted norms in rational discourse ; or else you’re being cleverly disingenuous, and only pretending to be stupid, in order to troll me.

I think the evidence thus far leads us to the latter possibility.

Either way, irrespective of whether you’re being honestly stupid or whether you’re simply being disingenuous, there’s no doubt at all that you’re plain wrong. That I’ve been able to clearly show, I hope.

Quote : Call NASA racist if you want, but all its findings during space travel are the same.

Heh, this is getting really, truly hilarious!

Now you’re sounding like religious nut jobs, crackpot flat-earthers, weirdo creationists and whacko conspiracy theorists, who keep on name-dropping “smart” things like “space travel” and "NASA". In such company, your nut-job racist ideas would not look at all out of place!

How does NASA come into this, Jesse? How does space travel enter into this? Do you realize you’re just stringing together random words (words that no doubt spell “smart” to you!), and making no sense at all?

You’re sounding exactly like some out and out nutjob that makes wholly incoherent arguments by invoking what he imagines are science-y references, like “genes”, and “NASA”, and “space travel”.

Again, either you’re really a nut job with weird ideas (the idea, in this case, being racism) with a penchant for buzzwords that you believe sound impressive (but which you’re basically ignorant about), or else you’re trolling away, and play-acting at being a nut jub.

Provided it’s the latter, Jesse : Well done, good show!

Quote : the only reason you say it is because you're a virulent racist trying you hide your blatant racism.

Heh, someone seems to be getting all riled up! Someone seems to be getting their panties all in a bunch! And what is that, do I detect smoke coming off from their ears?

This is cool! Looks like I’ve managed to reverse-troll our troll! Looks like I’ve actually managed to get under the skin of our troll! Is that cool or what, Jesse?

The fact that you’re now getting riled tells me that at least your racism is real. Your racist ideas are real, that is the only reason you’re now getting irritated. So that part at least is not a troll act.

And this means that I was wrong about your intelligence and your subtlety. You’re a troll all right -- as I’ve already shown, clearly, and as you’ve yourself admitted -- but you’re not a very intelligent troll who’s subtly play-acting at being stupid ; it would appear that you’re actually stupid, actually ignorant.

Jesse, just read that sentence of yours, that I’ve quoted above, aloud to yourself. Does it make any sense?

You’re saying, I’m calling you a racist because I’m trying to hide my own “blatant racism”? I’ve clearly described what is racist about your comment : What basis do you have, exactly, for saying I’m a “virulent” racist, Jesse? Or any kind of racist, for that matter? Can you explain that at all, or have you now given up even the barest pretense of rationality?

You realize your commenting has now descended to actual incoherence, don’t you, and that you’re making no sense at all any more? Or are you unable to even see this, that you’re making no sense, not even when I point it out to you?

[One Initiated]

That's ok Bob,
you are missing the sense of humour.

I've nothing against you and neither Brian or Jesse.
And always wish them best for their spiritual, mental and physical well being,
here and also on email.

There are million times more shameful things here to be shamed upon,
the fake blog post previous to Open Thread 15 is one of them.

AR,
My analysis is that Jesse appears to be deeply hurt
and fallen badly into the grip of the mind and turned the guns towards the Master.
All this energy which should have gone into meditation and listening to sound,
is getting wasted here in communicating hatred.
he is behaving surely like a troll - but I think the matter with him is some deep inner pain.
I think he will recover sooner or later and will be all fine.

Lots of Sound to everyone.

[Sarah]

On a tour of Beas in 2014, the conductor explained to us that the old, beautiful Satsanghar was not used anymore except for initiating elderly and then the counting of seva money on Saturdays.

Brings to mind something in the Bible about money changers, temple and Jesus...

[One Initiated]

Yes Sarah,

The old satsanghar could no longer accommodate
the growing number of disciples.

If the new bigger satsanghar was not created,
there would have been complaints of not providing ample sitting arrangements by the Master.

Food and the Langar needs to be prepared by money,
and if we have money in your wallet,
we also count it for organising and before spending, don't we?

If the doubts have seeped in our hearts,
we will criticise the rain for moisture and drought for dryness.

[Jesse]

"Brings to mind something in the Bible about money changers, temple and Jesus..."

They said the same to me, Sarah, and they were proud of their misuse of the building.

It's a sales tactic.They say that RSSB is just so absolutely spiritual that there can be no rituals. But that concept of anti-rutualness continuously expanded to being that there can be no culture or beauty, either. And if there's no culture or beauty, there is no inspiration, which is why RSSB'ers are so often salty depressed people with dull and uncreative spirits.

Obviously Sawan Singh that that old building was really beautiful and inspirational or else he wouldn't have had it built. He too could have constructed a giant ugly shack had he wanted to.

The reality is probably that they try saving money on all sides, and expanding on a beautiful building would mean one less helicopter or one less rolex watch for god. It's much cheaper to build obscenely ugly and oversized structures that resemble picnic areas at American parks than it is to build something that inspires men to seek truth.

[Sarah]

Yep. Quantity vs. quality...

[777]

@jesse

Would u like to have such a life
even with 10 Boeings

Is HE behaving like a saoud prince, . . no . . it's only work
U would have declined long long ago

7

[Sarah]

@OI
OK

still wish GSD hadn’t torn down the old tea garden though. The was the COOLEST place at the Dera. I don’t think he understands Wabi Sabi.

I’ve spent way tooo much time on this blog today.

Must. Go. Do. Something. Productive.

Much love ❤️
Cleo

[Jesse]

777,people who don't desire vast amounts of money don't do business deals with corrupt family members, sell tainted medicines and hide money in their wife's name.

Gurinder Dhillon does those things. He is not a guru. He's an inheritor of a money making indian cult. There are thousands of them.

You're not an honest person, and you don't have blissful shabd experiences.

You're an internet proselytizing clown who writes ungodly horrible poetry.

None of you go to RSSB.org Tell us why?

[Jesse]

By the way 77777777, you just said earlier that any and all degenerate, lustful and greedy behavior is ok if we love shabd.

Now you're judging the sant sat gurus of the saud dynasty?

Get your story straight and then get your soul right by praying to the saudi princes of love and light, heretic.