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July 03, 2018

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I see
many
commentators have read one of the >>10.000 books
magazines, columns about Near Death Experiences

One hasn't to do a single special exercise during his lifetime
It happens and happens all the time, it happens to everybody

Next there are stories called astral travelling,
Those happen less but the conscious goes not further
than the earth plane and its etheric surroundings

The degree of "meetings" with other entities
depends on the solidness of once aura.

If there are many holes in that protection shield,
then call for Scotty.

Next there are the sincere Yogis and others, doing mainly Pranayama.
Respiration exercises
Seldom in the first life but after many ascetic purifications
they indeed can adventure in the first of 7 heavens (Plane of consciousness)

Those really 'far' will possess one or more of the (wiki) side(h)is
The more they use these powers, the more they lose them
that is ( like here in the physic )
If 100% no ego is involved everything is OK but if it is,
the powers will be lost slowly at best or fast
and/or turn themselves against the ego shower.

So, it s easy to define what we meet
If they eat meat (yes it happens) it's even worse

For arriving in this 1/7 world one must pass through one or mostly
a combination of chakra_tunnels in the same way as arriving here by the chakras of the mother.

If the applyer really misuses the siddhis he will be stucked in the tunnel(s)
and their cavities like the Thai boys
no help in sight
In smaller parallels its the same as with all talents here on earth
ending often in cocaine for enhancing . . .
Even a novelist will use his phantasy


There are some karma_executing souls with special powers
(Hitler > Voice power ) , Bonaparte, Mao, Caesar, but that is rare.
For their reparation read some pages in OAHSPE
the link I gave a few days ago

All this has absolutely nothing to do with God The Almighty's Name
that cannot be written, neither spoken but can be heard above our eyes
via the 2 highest Chakras and NO OTHER CHAKRA AT ALL

So, . . when science will arrive explaining NDE and what the Brahma seeking Yogis do
God's name will never be exploited other than by hearing , admiring Its sweetness and
diving in it
Being That

Yes Meditation is cutting off all those thousends of ego spikes in our thinking untill we give up
Next One has really no time for Ego
Pray for it

777

Pls understand that the whole process is like a dynamic wave form
which its ups and downs
RSSB Meditation polishes the rough waves



JIM said and I SO agree :
"""" I am like a Detective, who KNOWS Lane is guilty of Spiritual Murder to the Multitudes he sentenced to death, by his Articles, Books, Pseudo Science , """

Jim, He will be reborn soon
and Yes, he can still NOW dimish somewhat the horrible effects of what he has sown
by an open publication

Remember Judas, . . Sawan said : "He is in Heaven"
I guess he used the 30 pieces to withdraw accusations before hanging

Sawan didn't tell HOW Judas arrived where he is
777


-

Same for me

Next time I enter the brothel
I must much more empesize
on the words and the sound

But I loved THEM all the time, Jim

777

-
and That was felt
perhaps some preachers do that too
without a word to say
without judgement and hypocrisy
and Jésus in their Heart Chakra
I pray
May this happen worldwide Oh My God

-

Hi Manjit

In not sure if this came through yesterday.. It seemed to be blocked. But if you saw it disregard. Otherwise, I did respond to your request for factual points below.

You wrote

"So instead of the irrelevant ad hominems, perhaps address the actual details of what she writes - which are clearly her opinions about FACTS, share them or not, but do you dispute any of the actual facts she shares? Your pedantic & selective criticisms of almost throw-away comments shows just how little you have in terms of an effective rebuttal, imo."

Apparently you missed some of the details of what I wrote. Here are four :

1.The fact that Tara accused Baba Ji of lying without listing those.

2.The fact that Tara accused Baba Ji of not being in the decision making role to keep Dera, and all the new centers, free. And then later claiming he makes all the key decisions. You can't have it both ways.

3.Ignoring the work of Ranbaxy in helping to save over a million lives as the major supplier to the Clinton Initiative at or below cost, stretching their company's capacity, drawing the ire of investors to the Singh brothers and costing them their careers.

4. Wrongly depicting belief in RS as the result of an uneducated Sangat, ignoring all the surgeons, physicians, scientists and other professionals throughout the world who are devotees from the highest levels of educated discernment. And it is these who make up the main share of donations, to help their brothers and sisters.

Ignoring most of that and depicting the rest as unbridled greed.
False. Tara's projections.

I truly hope that Lane comes forward for posting online,
and answer 100s of questions he is due to respond to,
It can help many individuals - as it has corrupted many.

I hope he comes forward before the sun sets on him.

Manjit, it appears you are on the path
of becoming the next David Lane.
You are possibly corrupting many seekers.

If you said you can achieve that state
in a few weeks, what are you waiting for ?

You said you are no longer interested in it,
but you are interested in talking and debating the topics around it ?
What does that actually mean ?

Could you please spend those few weeks
and achieve that state again ?

I heartily wish and pray for you to come out of the grip of your mind.
You said: "who cares" ... I do. I do care for you brother.
It's extremely hurting for me to observe you becoming the next D. Lane.

O.I. Writes to Manjit,.....”I heartily wish and pray for you to come out of the grip of your mind.
You said: "who cares" ... I do. I do care for you brother.
It's extremely hurting for me to observe you becoming the next D. Lane.”

Me: Manjit is still young enough to repent of his errors of doing harm to him self, but in spite of him being at Odds with Sant Mat, RSSB and Gurinder, it should be obvious to any one following his posts over the years, that Manjit is not an Atheist, and in fact, comes accross as being a VERY Spiritual seeker of Truth.

Unlike Lane, Manjit has never tried to persuade others that there is no soul, and all consciousness is Brain Neurons firing, and has nothing to do all with Spirituality.
.
From my reading thousands of posts by BOTH Manjit and Lane over the last 20 years, I have witnessed Manjit's growth, in Spirituality, not decline, in spite of his inflated Ego of thinking he has already forgotten more about what ever those he decides to debate will ever know in this life time. :-). But, unlike Lane, Manjit has never written scores of Books to persuade Seekers of how intellegent he is.

I can’t see that Manjit has ever advised ANY seeker, interested in persuing Spirituality to quit seeking, because its all in the brain, only, unlike Lane, the “ Neural Surfer” who being a College Professor, with a Ph.D. , not only destroys youg Seekers minds, in his College Classes, but has destroyed many others, who have stumbled in to his Radha Swami Studies Yahoo Group , and not only read Lane’s own Guru Bashing, of most other RS Branchers, but his own RSSB. He publically stated that he snuck up to the Whizard’s Cave, and pulled open the curtain, to expose Toto. ( my paraphrase, but close)

The difference between Manjit and Lane is,

Manjit quit meditating because he believes he has found shorter paths to Spirituality, but has never thrown the Baby out with the bath water, nor does he try to convince other Seekers that there is nothing beyond the brain, so don’t waste time looking for some thing that isn't there, ....where,

Lane, on the ofher hand, is like a Cancer Patient, using the Cure for him self, ( Meditation ), while at the same time discouraging any other Seeker coming in contact with his writtings that every body can access the brain farts by reading his books and if they do see any thing inside, its the Chandian effect.

David Lane has discouraged so many and pushed so many away from Spirituality and The Path of the Masters, that if he even starts now, and shows up to publically apologise to all he has caused to go astray from the path, he has a lot of work to do in order to avoid Reincarnation again, hopefully, in a position to burn the negative Karma he has created for himself this life.

Lane could be compared to a Military General, who has led his soldiers in to Battle, knowing that they will be killed in battle, while he remains in his Ivory Tower safe and in comfort while watching them perish, as he keeps sending more to their executions.

That does not describle Manjit, at all. In fact, I have witnessed Manjit stand up and try to reason with some of his most vicious attackers, with out running away to take refuge in a cave and hide from his oppossers as Lane is doing.

I think Lane’s biggest fear of returning, is what his Worshippers will think of him who have been his Cohorts of Anti guru and Anti Spiritual rhetoric if he comes out of his Bunker and confesses he has now changed.

Jim Sutherland

Manjit's only flaw is that he is hard on those he disagrees with.

I find him a very spiritual person.

Each of us are allowed our opinions.

Even if they are critical of others.

As for David Lane, he is obliged to no one.

He can change his mind. We all do.

Or not.

But to feed into this notion that he is responsible for your choices and beliefs is, it seems to me, more like you are creating the cult, not him. He's just a guy with opinions.

Just like the gut in the mirror.

Spencer, you don’t know Lane as I do, nor his decades of Anti Guru and Cult bashing. You need to do more research on him, not just his recent Surfer Boy stories.

I know many Seekers that I brought right to the door of seeking RSSB Initiation , who then stumbled in to Lane’s RSS Forum, read his Anti-Guru Articles, such as his Book, “ The Guru Has No Turban” and turned around and went in another another. Lane’s Professor status as a young 17 year old Catholic Charan Lover Boy, has had a giant impact on his Judas status to innocent Seekers.

Also, it isn’t so much only what Lane, himself wrote, said, and published, but what he allowed others to post on his Forum, with out moderation or deletion, such as the Pictoral Symbols of the Five Holy Names he left remaining in the Files section for years. If you ever encounter them, take a look at “ So Hung” photo, which Lane got a big laugh out of, and left it in his File Section. I don’t know if its still there, as I am blocked.

You don’t have the least clue regarding the vicious attacks on me and others that Lane allowed to go on for years on his site, and not only allowed them, but applauded them! I once abandoned the site for 5 years, and was baited to return when the long time Pseudo Poster using his Avatar, Rat baited me back, spreading the story I had died of cancer.

When I surfaced, and reported I was alive and doing well, one of my enemies posted, “ Oh, F—-, too bad. “. Lane let it remain, and never deleted the comment. Then, they all had another go at me, before I left the building.

So, Brother, don’t try to lecture me about what I should should do, with out knowing why I remain on Lane’s Case like a Detective that knows Lane is guilty of thousands of past Spiritual deaths, but has escaped ever being brougnt to Judtice by a Trial and by a Jury of his Peers.

Manjit just happened to be present al most the entire two decades to witness all that happened there, so you are really naive to be preaching to any of us on past events you know nothing about.

Manjit has also attacked me, plenty of times, going right for my Juggler Vein, but has proven to be a worthy Opponate, never running to hide in a Bunket when there was too much flack thrown at him. He has gone after Lane, as well, many times, and Check Mated him in public! Even Lane finds him as a worthy Aponite.

I would welcome Manjit as one of tne Jury Members if Lane is ever brougnt to Trial.

Even the RSSB Resident Doctor laughed when Vince Savarice, the Western Rep. said Lane is now a Changed Man. He would also be a good Jury Member to Supena, along with many of tne Exers who obviously would not be delighted to hear Lane admit he is now a changed man, and has returned to the RSSB Satsang.

Jim Sutherland

Hi Jim

If you feel compelled to bring anyone to account for their views, I think under that withering judgment we are all sinners.

I passed a church in Mulwakuee a few years ago with a big blue Neon sign, Sinners Welcome! "

If it can be true for a Christian church, if they can forgive anything, or nearly anything, doesn't that put us" enlightened" free thinkers to shame for demanding our pound of flesh?

I am reminded of Shylock in the Merchant of Venice.

But then thinking of that play I remember how Shakespeare depicted Shabd so beautifully in the final act, and in light of that divinely inspired poetry, this thread becomes irrelevant and unworthy of the nobility of our great capacity for attention just as did the drama of his play evaporate in the higher poetry of divine love he shares at the end.

Come Jim! Let us spread our wings and soar above it all, sharing kindness with all.

LORENZO
How sweet the moonlight sleeps upon this bank!
Here will we sit and let the sounds of music
Creep in our ears: soft stillness and the night
Become the touches of sweet harmony.
Sit, Jessica. Look how the floor of heaven
Is thick inlaid with patines of bright gold:
There's not the smallest orb which thou behold'st
But in his motion like an angel sings,
Still quiring to the young-eyed cherubins;
Such harmony is in immortal souls;
But whilst this muddy vesture of decay
Doth grossly close it in, we cannot hear it.


Enter Musicians

Come, ho! and wake Diana with a hymn!
With sweetest touches pierce your mistress' ear,
And draw her home with music.
Music

JESSICA
I am never merry when I hear sweet music.

LORENZO
The reason is, your spirits are attentive:
For do but note a wild and wanton herd,
Or race of youthful and unhandled colts,
Fetching mad bounds, bellowing and neighing loud,
Which is the hot condition of their blood;
If they but hear perchance a trumpet sound,
Or any air of music touch their ears,
You shall perceive them make a mutual stand,
Their savage eyes turn'd to a modest gaze
By the sweet power of music: therefore the poet
Did feign that Orpheus drew trees, stones and floods;
Since nought so stockish, hard and full of rage,
But music for the time doth change his nature.
The man that hath no music in himself,
Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds,
Is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night
And his affections dark as Erebus:
Let no such man be trusted. Mark the music.
Merchant of Venice, Act 5, scene 1,
Will Shakespeare


Mark the divine music in yourself
And find that softened heart.

Brian,

I don't know how my comment isn't being published but 777's is lol.

"" If it can be true for a Christian church, if they can forgive anything, or nearly anything, doesn't that put us" enlightened" free thinkers to shame for demanding our pound of flesh? ""

We have power to forgive what is done to us personelly; not mre.

The requests ask for clarity only

Is he still poisoning children
He can limit that !

If not Jesus answer applies about the millstone on the bottom
of the Antartic
hurry David to not only have negatives on your account

But if the enlightment was temporal and
your mind tells you all the time that what you saw/heard was not true

From France : . . . . Ainsi soit-il !
There are more sources
like sweet Sound & Light and above everything LOVE

karma obliges - Not 4 lives anymore I heard

777

""" I don't know how my comment isn't being published but 777's is lol. """
You can't delete Gurinder Singh s comment Brian, . . come on

7

@ chill folks - a lot of you can’t let things or people go. You are their prisoners now looooool.

I might get angry but I let go.

I’m not going to have you on my mind unless you pay me rent x

C’mon England tomorrow

Hi 777?
"He is poisoning children"?

777, David, just like you, Manjit and Brian, and Jen, Dungeness, Arjuna and are doing exactly what Master has set forth. Diem to the microsecond.

"If you don't like sausages, don't watch them being made! "

Actually I love Manjit's comment, "Gotta go! Those Astral regions won't travel themselves!"


Let's go. From there you may get a glimpse of his this is all working.

"I’m not going to have you on my mind unless you pay me rent x"

Way cool Arjuna

@ Spencer - thank you it just popped into my mind and c’mon for England against Croatia in the semi Finals tomorrow!

C’mon Spencer 😀

Arjuna writes,...”I’m not going to have you on my mind unless you pay me rent x"

Me: Are you a greedy Land Lord?

Perhaps that is why Gurinder does not visit you?

He prefers free rent, free Seva, and free access to your mind.

😇
Jim

This was really nice timing on your part to post Tara's comments being that the Singh Bhai Bhai's are in the news again after being accused of outright stealing many millions in cash from the companies they once headed.

https://www.livemint.com/Companies/qtfOwrskdEFz1TTfU7Ci6K/How-the-Singh-brothers-squandered-their-business-legacy.html

Good timing on my part, too. I haven't come to the site as much lately. Partly cause your boomer hippy views on politics are so surreal and absurd to me(though I still think you're a pretty interesting and cool guy), but also cause even reading negative stuff about RS irritates me.

It fascinates me that after all Tara has revealed people still can't accept that Gurinder Singh is simply one of many ultra-corrupt Indian spiritual business dynasty families. It's sort of the system there. Anyone who looks beyond RSSB will find this same thing all over India, sadly.

Those who are remotely familiar with Radha Soami literature would know that money is incessantly referred to as something we need to provide necessities of life, and that any more than is necessary is said to be activity wholly antithetical to spiritual progress.

If Gurinder is supposed to be the RS spiritual leader and the perfect exemplar, then the entire cult is schizo at this point. He didn't amass close to a billion dollars by focusing on "naam." He's not doing his bhajan and simran in board rooms and conference calls. Trust me.

You'd think by now people would have figured out that when he comes to US and gives 2 or 3 30 minute satsangs, it's likely not the real reason he came here. The most likely explanation is that he's coming for business, but uses his "spiritual" talks to avoid taxes and other expenses. Not to mention that it gives him a cover for the sangat who might otherwise question his flight and other spending that likely comes from RS coffers.

Were he so devoted to the "sangat" you'd think he would have more than an hour during a week long visit to spend with all his beloved chelas.

I feel sorry for those who haven't awoken to this most obvious reality yet. But I can say for sure that I'm happy to have left that weird cult behind. There are many better cults in this world.

@ Jim - I didn’t mean Master Gurinder and how would you know he doesn’t visit loooool. Or for that fact how would I know. My mind is open for the Lord 24/7😀. It is now after reading this blog. In fact this blog has had the opposite effect on me.

I meant people - I don’t really think about people that much bar in my immediate vicinity 😀

All the very best.

@ Arjuna and 777,......You Satsangis are not very good Advertisements for RSSB Initiation.

Arguna has Bars in mind, and visits them occasionally, , and 777 has Porno cams in mind and visits Brothels, he confesses.

But really, there is a lot of wishful thinking in this Church.

I think Arjuna is on a Dry Drunk, and 777 has in ingrown erection, and is raping himself to death.

HaHaHaHa Loooool

😇

Jim

Radha Swami

Life is a mystery and an adventure and 'letting go' opens the doorway to the unknown.

"But the attitude of faith is to let go, and become open to truth, whatever it might turn out to be" Alan Watts

Hi Jesse

You wrote
"The most likely explanation is that he's coming for business, but uses his "spiritual" talks to avoid taxes and other expenses. Not to mention that it gives him a cover for the sangat who might otherwise question his flight and other spending that likely comes from RS coffers."

While the article you provided had some facts, all your comments above are not facts but conjecture.

And if one 's judgment is sound it usually must be based upon facts.

It really depends upon what you choose to read, to investigate, and to believe. Or what you choose to ignore. Tara's report is biased to her grudge. She ignores some of the most important facts.

RE Ranbaxy, whose sale in 2008 fueled the astronomic leap of Religare, the investment firm originally founded to help grow the Indian economy and provide Healthcare access to more of India.

Ranbaxy was a successfully run family business bringing low cost medications to India for decades. The patriarch, Bhai Mohan Singh was a financier who bought the company in 1952 when his cousins who had started and owned it were on the brink of bankruptcy. He was the husband of Maharaji 's daughter.

In the early years of this century they became , as they remain today, the third world's largest supplier of low cost critical drugs, for TB, Malaria and Aides. They supply most of the HIV medications and Ampicillin going to Africa, including those for the Clinton HIV initiative and other impoverished nations, at fraction of the prices offered by others. This is the company's tradition and their business model.

The grandfather, in the 1970's, realized that medication prices could be slashed by retro engineering western drugs so that these medications could be supplied to India and other indigent countries as generics.

After the father died in 1999 the sons began to expand their offerings into other countries. But as they began to grow exponentially the sons ran into trouble with managing quality, specifically for their acne medicine.

And when they were approached by the Clintons for their global HIV initiative, they simply expanded to fast.

When they went after a generic version of Lipitor, they became serious competition for established drug companies, Roche, Beecham and others.


https://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/40-years-ago-and-now-ranbaxy-grew-with-liberal-regimes-moving-out-of-family-control-114102101500_1.html


Then in 2004, within their organization quality records had been found missing or rubber stamped approved without actual inspection. And while it took a few years, in 2012 they were fined the largest penalty in the entire history of the United States Food and Drug Administration. To be cautious the FDA listed a large ban of most all the medications Ranbaxy made at two of their India production facilities. By that time the brothers Singh had sold their shares, so there was contention about how much they knew about the FDAs concerns. That resulted in an out of court settlement, leading to juggling inter company loans across units of Religare to cover the penalty, and the recent expulsion of the brothers from their positions at Religare.

It should be noted that the FDA fine was for the falsified inspections. After conducting intense audits and inspections at Ranbaxy's Indian manufacturing facilities over several years the FDA also reported that none of the batches of unchecked acne medication had actually left the plant. None were shipped out. None of the other medications were found to have quality problems since the original complaint in 2004. The FDA also confirmed that there were never grounds to close the factory and finally lifted the bans.

Random checks of Ranbaxy's HIV drugs throughout Africa since 2004 have proven they were always safe and effective.

http://www.politifact.com/global-news/statements/2016/sep/23/daily-caller/conservative-website-wrongly-ties-clinton-foundati/

Were these corrupt men? Or visionaries in a family tradition of using business profit to expand and serve, caught in a growth explosion they could not manage effectively?

Bottom line, with all the messy human flaws involved, just as with the Clinton Initiative itself, their direct efforts have resulted in saving over a million lives.

Yes they are Satsangis, flaws and all. Egos and all, Lust, anger, greed, attachment and pride. But something else that cannot be denied.

Demons or heros?

On the human spectrum, in the balance, I'd say heros, on an international level.

Jim wrote

""" Five Holy Names he left remaining in the Files section for years. If you ever encounter them, take a look at “ So Hung” photo, which Lane got a big laugh out of, and left it in his File Section. """

Don't worry Jim
first :
I have never seen the 5 names correctly spelled on the web

But let me for the fourth time
here explain why this is a TOTAL impossibility

The Master was so friendly to seek names corresponding somewhat
with the vibration of the ruling deity/proctor of a region (Brahm/Yahweh for 1/7 )
Both mind_constructs
Don't underestimate mind constructs > They created this Universe
Little bit slappy work

OK
Next a Saint puts His Own Holy Power in the word at initiation
Therfore the Lord of the 1/7 astral bows deep for this holy vibration
and lets the disciple pass

THE MASTER COULD HAVE TAKEN : PEPSI COLA RANK XEROX APPLLE
and put His power in it at initiation

Do you see how ridiculous it is to say he published some

Even the Torah researchers in Jerusalem know this, all these kids
That the real thing cannot be written or spoken

Etc so for all the next 4 regions

These Utra Powerful xillion times big bang energies mostly give giant goose bumps
which will be controlled by the disciple in meditation
the slow removal of the thorns of Ego

I believe I told David here on this blog
together with the Faqir stuff
Next, he published the same week "The Guru Quest"
and suddenly stopped the conversation
I liked Einstein better

OK , when I give somebody my 5 words , I only can put my power in them,
actually something like zero

777

Very happy person with goose bumps all over the place all the time


-

@ Jim and you are obsessed with Lane or whoever he is lol.

He doesn’t think about you but you do about him loooool.


You carry and obsess about him. Loooool.

Have a great day 😀

Laters buddy must attend to worldly matters ie work that pay the bills .

X

-

Why should God create Souls (His own essence) to nag them

Brian's "existence" did create the universes for pleasure
but we should not HURT

It was the first kill (apple was a steak) ending paradise Vinny not pleasures
Stop hurting if you want Paradise back

Jim
Since Gurinder addressed specifically YOU @dera
and U still carry that
here's a thought
you would even harshly have whipped Jésus for frequenting Maria Magdalena
You have never been in the mission of Love
but in Dogma
An attacker like the inquisition
Lane has nothing to do with you
Only with his Master

777

PS
In the above
( yr words )
I have read
you always
were
like that


Spencer Tepper,
Please don't quote entire 2000 word articles as if the whole thing is a relevant comment of your own. It's internet etiquette 101.

Also, I know you think you're uber-smart and that you "be doing the facts and the logic" and all, but your comment is the same degree of conjecture as mine. The only difference is that I said that I was stating an opinion whereas you seem to think pro-guru-cult=fact.

If you want to challenge conjecture, please contest the RS wiki page where it says Gurinder supports himself on his own and takes no money from the sangat. We have precisely ZERO evidence to support this claim, unless of course you have access to RS as well as Baba's bank accounts.

A man who calls himself God and claims that chasing money is bad, yet he himself chases money incessantly over decades long periods is a hypocrite by definition. You can make personal justifications for his hypocrisy, but your justification proves no absence of the hypocrisy. And the hypocrisy is the meat of the matter. Practicing what you preach is important, and more so for those who personally claim to be God.

Get back to me when you've exited the cult. All of us who've left started where you are now, and thought our way to the exit. You've yet to begin thinking.

Jesse

Hi Jesse

If you read the politifact article you will see that it contains only some of the info.

The other info came from another article in Bloomberg.

What you read is not a quote. I wrote that summary.

Though I've been accused of anything but summarizing!

You wrote

"A man who calls himself God and claims that chasing money is bad,"

Sorry but I was there in front of thousands when He angrily told a questioner not to call him that, following by saying, "calling someone God is the height of presumption. How could you possibly know. Please don't use that. You are here and I am here, that's all that matters. What do you want to know?"

So Jesse, all you or I can say is that our experiences are different. And we can compare and contrast those.

But conjecture is born of belief. And if they belief is prejudice then it is a open to question as any belief, any conjecture.

As I pointed out in my essay, everyone puts the facts together for themselves in their own way. You are right that some conjecture is a part of filling in the blanks.

But the hallmark of maturity is giving up favored conjectures, beliefs and prejudices when facts prove otherwise.

The politifact article offers facts from investigation.

Did you read it?

So..... England lost......:(

Hi 777!

Hear this little verse from the ever gorgeous Rumi:

"“Ignore those that make you fearful and sad, that degrade you back towards disease and death.”
― Jalaluddin Mevlana Rumi

Assume here, for a moment, that what Rumi refers to by "degrade you back towards disease and death", he means those who frighten you with karma and transmigration?

In other comments clearly referring to me, you mention later in the posts, as usual very ambiguously, "eating meat" and the use of "cocaine". No (though I am not a strict vegan, and I am quite ashamed of it, preferring instead, through pure cowardice, to remain in ignorance of the suffering milk & cheese apparently cause) & no (cocaine and other stimulants, thanks goodness as I have seen the effects of addiction on close friends, doesn't effect my state of consciousness).

Hi Spencer & Dungeness - your most recent posts (Spencer's one on the "existence is futile" (whaaaa? :( thread) are raw, honest, sincere & wonderful posts with a beautiful sentiment, and I quite agree! :) (though, Dungeness, I would argue the sincerity of Sawan's famous claim to "show" him "a better path". What do you think would actually happen if somebody went up to him and said "advaita", or "tibetan buddhism", or "shabd yoga via breath control, like Kabir, Nanak and other past mystics did", honestly? Regarding dogma, I would also suggest actually reading Sawan's satsangs in print, as well as the 3 volumes of "With the three Masters"; they are full of unbelievable & potentially dangerous dogma, dogma which no modern right thinking person would consider remotely plausible, and indeed think it silly nonsense. Seriously, read those books again!)

In regards the recent "revelations" and critical posts of RSSB & Gurinder, I would think there may be some lessons here to be learnt. And, funnily enough, I get the feeling Gurinder would agree whole-heartedly with these:

Do not judge the guru or path, or lack of or disbelief in, of others! As Jesus, a "Master" Charan had a great deal of respect for, is alleged to have said:

"Matthew 7:1-5
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you"

"Luke 6:37-42
37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven".

Basically, perhaps we should all hope that EVERYONE, RSSB initiates, Muslims, Christians, sceptics, critics, faith-abusers, atheists, criminals, politicians....even Trump (;-) is equally taken care of and loved by "God" (should there be such a "Being"!), and that even if others are following other paths, other gurus, perhaps even rival gurus like Kirpal Singh or Rajinder, that "God" loves them all EQUALLY so that SHe isn't insistent on putting everyone through perpetual suffering of transmigration as a punishment for not realising the billionaire was, in fact, God-Man, in some absurdist paranoid game of escape your own creation?

Constantly on forums like these you have so-called RSSB devotees come here and pontificate on how special their practice is, how all the other experiencers of "Divinity" in whatever form; other gurus, religions, lucid dreamers & astral projectors, entheogen users, the AWE & MYSTERY of the scientist like Einstein etc etc etc do not know or participate in the "divine mystery" like they do, that they are somehow "special".

Perhaps it is best not to "judge" and think you know & understand beyond your actual reach, and remain focused on your own selves? Perhaps it is the very act of "non-judgement" that can "save" you, should it in fact be your very own "Satguru" who wasn't the "real one", or that this was the "highest path"? Perhaps "Reality" will extend the same courtesy to you?

Talk of threats like "eating shit", or disease and death and rebirth, "agents of kal" etc?

Gurinder says there is no Kal; I've heard it myself! (though as Baudelaire once said “The devil’s deepest wile is to persuade us that he does not exist.” ;).

So on whose behalf are you talking when these "time-bound" threats are made?

"How can anyone praise or slander anyone else?
The One Lord Himself is pervading and permeating all."
Guru Amar Das, Guru Granth Sahib, page 1128

It is said by the mystics of the Granth Sahib, "not a leaf moves without Your Will", so which poster is posting outside the will of your beloved all-powerful "Satguru"?

Manjit,

Where are you from in UK? I'm 26, but my brother and cousins are around your age and they used to do seva in the trenches back in the early 90s. I did seva a few times back in 2008/2009 and never went again, i met quite a few people who weren't happy with the path, maybe you might have been one of them lol.
Do you know Osho Robbins?

Thanks,

G.S

Hi G.S.!

I'm from West London......my local centre when I first started actively attending satsangs (around 1996) was the Hounslow centre, which later merged with the larger Southall centre. I attended that school (Villiers?) satsang hall for a few years, which then moved to the permanent property on Southall Broadway which RSSB purchased. I attended there for a while until I stopped attending (though a while later I was "alerted" Gurinder would be coming there for a "surprise" visit, and attended with a good work-mate (and still close friend) who had no interest but was up for the experience.....memorable for because, me by then being quite sceptical of RSSB and Gurinder, still having a few tears fall from my eyes, quietly (I don't even know why! :) & my friend, thinking me to be quite a "tough" sort prior, teasing me about it for years.....

Annnyway, that was all around 1996 to 2000ish (I keep repeating years & dates more to remind myself than anyone else, which may sound a bit silly! :)

So if any of your brothers and cousins did seva, even if infrequently, around then, I would probably know them??......regulars (on cold & windy days) were only around 50-100 people, so we knew each other quite well.....I was of course one of the "younger uninitiated generation", aged between 18 and 22ish, but I spoke to everyone :)

Which centre/area are you from?

Yes, I know "Osho Robbins"......he played a very important, integral part in my own "awakening" (whatever that even means!). We once even had an interesting day out together to meet the UK "neo-advaitist" Tony Parsons......I keep meaning to contact him again privately, we got to meet up again for sure! But I am a notorious hermit....if you're reading, sorry Brother, I will contact you soon for sure! :)

Anyway, G.S., it's interesting you say in regards your few visits to do seva at Haynes; "quite a few people were unhappy with the path"....actually, mind-blowing. These kind of sentiments were NEVER shared, when I used to go?! On which day/s did you go? Was it "event" related or when there was a "rumour" Gurinder was to appear? On those days attendance used to increase 10 fold.....in amongst which were all sorts of people whose interest in RS ranged from none to enforced by senior family members, so I guess amongst some of them you'd hear sceptical remarks?! :) Asides from that, I was probably one of the most "questioning" people there, yet I absolutely loved & believed in Gurinder regardless!

Anyway, would be nice to hear more about you and your experience, if you feel comfortable sharing it (I can understand family pressures etc)?

Good virtually speaking to you! :)

Manjit

Hi Manjit,

Thanks for your message.

There was one particular guy who was english, he was confused with some of the teachings, he said there were a lot of contradictions and that Baba Ji was different to the other Guru's. I was in the same seva group as him, all the other people in the group ignored him. Then at lunch time, a few people from the group warned me not to listen to him and to do seva with them instead.
So i ignored him, i felt quite uncomfortable, I had only just turned 16 at the time (2008)
Then when it was time for the private q&a, he asked Baba Ji about the changes in teachings and contradictions, Baba Ji said that there were no contradictions and that he misunderstood it, they argued, and then the guy just walked off. I never saw him again, maybe he was sent by Kal, i'll never know lol.

Why doesn't Brian forward you my email address and then we can talk further?
I would like to share some of my experiences with you but not on here where it's too public.

Thanks


Gurinder says there is no Kal; I've heard it myself! (though as Baudelaire once said “The devil’s deepest wile is to persuade us that he does not exist.” ;).

Hi Manjit,

I was baffled by this too. Of course, RSSB is replete
with contradictions. The mind is alternately an "enemy"
that transformatively becomes a great "friend"; simran
and bhajan are our "weapons" but, in the end, "useless"
to take us within; etc.

It would be totally speculative to say what Gurinder's
remark meant without knowing the context. Was he
answering a question, for instance. If so, was he
trying to allay an imaginary fear or a false idea.
Or, was this just a way to subordinate the importance
we invest in childish notions that we can "fight Kal"
with the mind which is itself an agent of Kal. Maybe
the intent was to redirect us to simran and bhajan,
to remembrance of the Guru, to positivity instead of
fear.

Sometimes, you tell a child "there are no monsters"
until he's old enough to understand who they really
are and how to fight them effectively.

Quote One Initiated :
I am not sure why - but so many comments of mine are not getting posted,
Is there some filter / rules which protects posting of some comments ?


Hello, One Initiated.

Brian's already responded to your query, but I've faced this issue a few times myself -- and in fact faced it today, just now, just a short while back -- so I thought I'd chime in here.

Here's what I do : If I suspect a comment I'm starting on will end up getting longish, longer than a few short paragraphs, then I simply start a Word document alongside, and do my typing there. Then when I'm done, I copy-paste it on to the Comments box.

If the Comment does not take -- it happens at times, on account of length probably, but no clue why exactly -- then I simply open another browser (say firefox, if I'd been working with Chrome to begin with) and copy-paste it there from my Word document, still open alongside. This time, this second time, it does take.


In the past, I'd had a few long comments lost in limbo myself. And, like you, I'd email Brian and request him to rescue that poor comment of mine, languishing in limbo. But these days I no longer need to bother him over this sort of thing.


Don't know why this should be so, the technical hows and whys behind this I mean, but it works for me. So I thought I'd share this with you.

Appreciative Reader, sometimes Typepad, my blogging service, wrongly puts comments in a spam section. I just checked. None of your comments are there. And none are in an "unpublished" section. I have no idea why comments don't get published. I'll check with Typepad staff about this.

I log in when I publish comments of my own. Have you set up a log-in account via one of the options Typepad offers? That might help resolve your problem.

I do my best to check the spam section as often as possible. Sometimes, like yesterday, I'm away from my computer for a lengthy period, so this isn't possible. I very rarely delete a comment, usually because it actually is spam -- someone using a comment to plug a product or web site. Occasionally I'll delete a comment that makes no sense, or is in a foreign language.

Bottom line: there's no nefarious reason comments don't get published. Mostly it's a Typepad glitch, or maybe someone doesn't submit a comment properly. Again, logging in could make it easier to submit a comment. Like I said, I have to do this myself when I leave a comment, logging in to my Typepad account.

Appreciated R

You don't have to go that far

When finished, you select / copy your text
next you type shift_F5

the frame is fresh then and you paste your text in it

Also if you have that "Word" habit
Word contains certain command , which after the paste
might be wronly interpretated in the frame
which can prevent posting

I never had problems with long texts
and as the man said
I need only 10 words , . . a delight

The karma I endure lately
is never to be sure if Brian deletes me
You don't know if you go to the voting box for nothing
like is custom so often in Africa,

777

Years of meditation with the help of the supreme lord in human form, and the ego isn't even diminished enough to let go of an inane comment on a blog.

Is this the fruit of radha soami practice? Worrying that your thoughtless sentences were lost on the internet?

Maybe it's time to try a new religion.

hello Appreciative Reader,

Thanks for explaining the procedure that has worked for you.

And thanks Brian, for explaining it further.

If Brian is deleting the comment, or banning a user,
that's totally a different thing than Typepad counting it a spam.

I am noticing definitely some Typepad glitches to have wrongly count the comments as spams, earlier that has never been the case.

Didn't you accuse my grammar Jesse ?

-
I mentioned only the First Amendment

plus

I''m a rare participant here So Happy about my non religion

RSSB is just Love and that is easy

Are YOU happy Jesse
Perhaps now you have yr way


777


"RSSB is just Love and that is easy"

Don't tell lies.

Love has no trust funds or offshore bank accounts. In RSSB everyone is a stranger, especially to the guru who doesn't recognize people he initiated. Love requires familiarity.

I'd suggest leaving the cult and ceasing your dishonesty.

Aaaaaaah

You decide that I'm not happy !

Show me one of 2/400 posts of mine expressing that

77

I just read my post, 777. Nowhere in it did I mention your happiness or happiness at all.

I said you're not being honest about what RSSB is, because it is in fact a massive religious organization with ties to various corporations which are invested in and managed by both the leader or RSSB and his immediate and extended family.

I've never seen a dictionary which lists "giant religious org with corporate ties" as one of its definitions of love.

Once again, I'd suggest you leave the cult.

King Akbar was so much richer

I guess the 10 Gurus too

You tell God how to organize and which man to appoint
He could even take you

Anyway
Everything Charan predicted, promised and more became true in my case and my wife's case
and many I know plus a lot of bonus
Fact is : I do not know disappointed satsangis except some 10 or so writers here
today I went to David s blog and saw a few more

Nobody promised the end goal which is "That is Me", in One life
even in three lives although all that is also possible

God is NOT in the business of nagging Himself IN us

Read the Way of a Pilgrim and you will understand
and know how anger destroys body cells

"Leave the cult" . . . are you telling Richard Bransom to destroy his nice Island"

I don't remember you

I guess you are a total and complete outsider concerning RSSB
and I wouldn't address U if you hadn't come with your attacks

777

"I guess you are a total and complete outsider concerning RSSB
and I wouldn't address U if you hadn't come with your attacks"

For someone who can discern between gods and men with such expertise, you certainly do get butthurt on the internet easily. I, God, never initiate the impatient.

"The 10" Gurus might have been just some greedy Punjabi guys too. The Russian guy in Way of a Pilgrim might have been a superstitious fool. How do you know who is close to God? Just cause their poetry was preserved? Maybe Edgar Alen Poe was the most Saintly poet of all time and Sachkhand is a surreal nightmare.

I have no reason to believe that anyone is more enlightened or holy than myself, Saint Jesse, who were you wise would never disrespect as I'm the perfect living Master in human form. Sorry to inform you, but I bhajan harder, like way as f*** harder than that business man who you're being led into hell by.


Jesse

hi Manjit,

I've noted you many times mentioning about eating shit
which itself speaks many things.

I wanted to extend my sincere apologies to you,
for I did use the wrong selection of words
and used a very wrong expression.

You stand where you stand with your
experiences, beliefs and understandings.
In fact everyone does in their own created worlds.

Also just noticed how Jesse is now insulting the 10 gurus.
Truly devastating to read all this shit.

Whenever I will meet HIM,
if anyone who will require to eat shit will be me and not you.

Lots of Love.

Just noticed One Initiated is insulting the living guru and God, Jesse.
So utterly devastated and heartbroken.

Sri Sri Ravi Shankar

Jesse

I don't think you speak many languages
Because your grey cells would be more developped

Do You feel fine with all that turmoil inside of you
Shouting names is not the way
Even those agreeing will turn their back to U
If conventional Khalsa Sikhs read this, . . they certainly will have a desire to trace your IP
and kill you.

I never addressed you without your attacks and have no desire

My explanations are not mine but a resumé/ compilation from Patanjali Yoga Sutras
(Christoffer Isherwood ) Sri Yuktewar and RSSB Masters
Those were enforced by the 24/7 beautiful Anahabed Shabd
jubilated in Jap Ji
which makes possible to see (Dhyan) the real form of many Saints

777


777 now claiming that terrorists are gonna find me and kill me for a not very bad internet comment about 16th century men who nobody alive has ever met.

The stupidity of religion is all the more clear now.

The funniest thing is that these people such as One Initiated and 777 claim to know everything about God and Saints yet they aren't seeing MY radiant form.

You're both frauds who think popular personalities are real Saints. You'll be born as worms. Sorry.

Hi Jesse

You asked
"How do you know who is close to God?"

What they wrote is similar to our own experience.

So while the notion of God may be debatable, the lessons and experiences written in ancient writings resonate with that of many readers, myself included.

I'm curious, what works resonate with you?

Quote Brian : there's no nefarious reason comments don't get published.


Brian, thanks for taking the time to point out those tips about commenting.

Re. that sentence from your comment, that I’ve copied above : I’m sure that’s just a general remark, a global remark so to say, as opposed to addressed specifically to me, but still, taking it at face value :

I wouldn’t dream of suggesting anything of the kind! Your blog is, quite frankly, my favorite place on the Internet, albeit I no longer am able to spend quite as much time here as I used to earlier, and not a fraction as long as I’d prefer to hang out here if I could!

And what is more, I believe your conduct of this blog is amazingly laissez faire, extremely liberal, and very admirably accommodative of all kinds of contrary views. Most people like to surround themselves with like-minded folks, and prefer support as opposed to critique (which is a very short-sighted thing to do, and yet most people do this) : while the comments here in your blog, that you so willingly accommodate here, almost always end up critiquing either specific things you say, or else even critiquing your basic worldview.

Now I’d myself say that such critique is probably far more productive than a brain-dead sycophantic echo chamber of the kind that some other bloggers sometimes attempt to cultivate, but of course I say this as mere observer : for the person occupying this central space, to be surrounded by such naysaying comments at all times, while no doubt generally stimulating, must certainly be tiring at times, and perhaps at times demoralizing as well. That is, it takes both courage and fortitude to keep on supporting an environment which is critical (not necessarily always negatively critical, but critical nevertheless) of most things you say. And yet that is exactly what you do.

I guess I’m trying to offer up to you both a thank-you and a congratulations, on your continuing to take the trouble to support this space that is so often critical of your own views. And to assure you, and assure all readers, that (at least in my view) there’s no question of the slightest possibility of any nefarious agenda on your part behind any comments not getting posted here!


Quote Brian : logging in could make it easier to submit a comment


Sure, but One Initiated seems to have this issue with long comments despite logging in.

It has been my experience that, at times like these, simply changing your browser does the trick. I’ve no clue why this should be so, but it seems to work for me.

To be clear, I myself encounter this issue only very rarely, perhaps once in three months or six months or so. But earlier, when this happened, I’d simply email you, badgering you with requests to dig that comment up ; while nowadays, I find that simply switching browsers (in my case from Chrome, which I tend use generally, to firefox) does the trick painlessly and quickly, and without my having to put you to this bother.


For the technically minded (or for you, Brian, should you wish to share this with the Typepad folks) :

Here’s my conjecture about the “issue”, the reason why long comments sometimes end up not getting posted. This is just my guess, my surmise basis my own anecdotal experience, made with zero technical knowledge about the algos supporting this system, but still :

I think it’s not so much the length of the comment per se, as the time you spend actually composing the comment within the Comment box, that is relevant here. If you spend too long in the Comment box typing, then after a point, something goes wrong. (And of course, if you compose your comments within the box itself, then obviously the two -- the length of the comment, and the time taken within the Comment box to type out the comment -- are directly correlated.)

Therefore, when you compose your comment in a separate Word doc, and simply copy-paste here, then even a very long comment ends up sitting in the Comment box itself a very short time, and as a result ends up getting posted (as opposed to getting blocked, which is what might happen if you type everything within the box itself).

Yeah, this is separate from having to switch browsers when it does get stuck, I realize as I type this, which is what I’d originally started speaking about. Two separate issues.

Could be I’m wrong, but basis my own experience this seems to work : (a) Spend less time in the Comments box when typing long comments, by composing long comments separately in a wordprocessing program like MSWord -- no need to save the Word doc, but at least keep it open until your comment has actually been posted ; (b) If you still get stuck, despite copying from Word, then simply switch to a different browser, by copying again from the Word doc you’ve got open alongside ; and finally, as you point out yourself, (c) Log in with Typepad or whatever, because not only might that make posting easier, that also helps you easily access your past comments. And if you do choose to log in via Typepad or whatever, then privacy settings can be tweaked to ensure that this (the whole list of past comments, chronologically arranged) stays visible only to you, as opposed to the world at large, despite your having logged in, if confidentiality is an issue with you.


Quote 777 : When finished, you select / copy your text … next you type shift_F5 …
the frame is fresh then and you paste your text in it


Hello, 777. Thanks for your tip!

I agree, if you remember to CNTRL-C your entire comment before clicking “post”, and if you remember to do this every time you comment, then I suppose there’s no need to take the trouble to open a Word doc at all. Then you can simply CNTRL-V this on to wherever, instead of having to copy the whole thing from your Word doc. (Not that it’s any trouble to open a Word doc, if you’ve got yourself a shortcut for it, but still.) That’s a valid point. Saves one step, absolutely.

However, what you say about simply refreshing your page, I’m afraid that doesn’t work, at least for me. If the comment gets stuck, then I find that simply refreshing the tab, or even re-opening the same page on another tab or even another window -- within the same browser -- simply does not work. You end up getting your comment blocked again and again, no matter how many times you refresh or open a separate tab or window. On the other hand, opening a separate browser (in my case, firefox, as opposed to my usual Chrome) does the trick, every time. At least it has, thus far, for me.

And also, 777, what I said just now about the duration of time you spend within the Comments box. If I'm right in concluding it's this duration that is important, as opposed to the length of the comment (with the latter relevant only in as much as it affects the former), then that would be another reason to go the wordprocessor route.

Always provided my surmise about duration being a relevant factor, is correct.

Hi Jesse

"You asked
"How do you know who is close to God?"

What they wrote is similar to our own experience.

So while the notion of God may be debatable, the lessons and experiences written in ancient writings resonate with that of many readers, myself included.

I'm curious, what works resonate with you?"

I'm not sure that mystics of different traditions had similar experience. This is a RS trope that can only be sustained by cherry picking mostly incomplete quotes that initially sound similar until you go deeper into the writings. On top of that, there is a great deal of auto suggestion going on when you're told what to repeat to yourself and what you'll subsequently see if you do.

Maybe Mr Lane could study the effects of RS meditators who haven't been given a description of what they're to expect. Might find out that all these wonderful inner experiences that one in a million satsangis are having were simply imagination.

Not only that, but most RS books are questionably translated anyway. I'd say most aren't translated at all but rather the name of the author is used and RS propaganda that isn't even remotely similar to any other translation is inserted in place of the real writings.

Ancient writings also resonate with me, which is a big reason why I find the Radha Soami cult's usurpation of foreign texts to be grotesque and offensive. I can think of nothing more offensive than taking someone's religion or philosophy and telling them that "even though I don't know the language or anything about it, I know you're interpreting it wrong. Your ancient religion is actually about bhajan, simran and various other Indian things."

Jesse

Appreciative Reader, I've described the commenting problem to Typepad staff, and they've suggested some changes to the comment settings of this blog, which I've made. Hopefully that will lessen the chance that a "good" comment will be sent to the spam section.

I wasn't doing anything wrong with the settings. They just may have been flagging some comments as spam, when this wasn't actually the case.

Thanks for the positive observations about me and this blog. Yes, I do try to be liberal in the non-political sense of the word. Meaning, accepting of differing views and being accommodating to free and open discussions.

If anyone thinks I'm too restrictive, because I occasionally delete comments that don't make any sense, or are excessively insulting toward someone, they might want to check out the guidelines for commenting on Washington Post stories.

The Post has way more rules for commenters than I do. Of course, they also have paid staff who oversee the comments, and obviously I don't. This blog is run by the Unholy Trinity of me, myself, and I. Here's a link to the Post guidelines:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ask-the-post/wp/2018/06/11/community-rules/?utm_term=.be3c86eea43a

Hello G.S.! Thanks for your response, your experience at Haynes is interesting.....it brings back fond memories, the people you'd often meet who'd only come once or twice, so really interesting interactions!.....:) I always looked at Haynes Park as a space of intensified "path"...I observed, read & interpreted every single small & minor interaction or experience as incredibly significant, a "teaching" Gurinder was trying to impart to me.....it seems you also had a fairly significant "lesson" learnt there, of some sort at least? :)

You ask "Why doesn't Brian forward you my email address and then we can talk further?
I would like to share some of my experiences with you but not on here where it's too public.".

That would be great! I'm loathe to disturb Brian, he is far too generous with his time and patience with us all (as well as letting us continue to clutter threads with comments which wildly deviate from the topic!)...but I am also a little cautious at sharing my email address publicly.....I guess if you contact me on my yahoo forum email address, I can get back to you on my private email? My yahoo username is manjitd101 ......if you add a @yahoo.co.uk to that, I'll get your email! I am a notoriously slow responder though, so thanks in advance for your patience.....would be great to chat though! :)

Hi One Iniitiated - thanks for your comment, and no worries! :)

However, you write: "Also just noticed how Jesse is now insulting the 10 gurus."...and 777 adds "If conventional Khalsa Sikhs read this, . . they certainly will have a desire to trace your IP and kill you."

Well, One Initiated, I personally (who is a Sikh by birth) do not find Jesse's comment to be an "insult". Regardless, even if it was, I find 777's projected threat disgraceful & abhorrent. And I am ashamed as a Sikh to be associated with such fundamentalist hatred & rage (even if 777's threat is only a projected claim, and possibly untrue), and as somebody who was once a follower of RSSB to be associated with such transparent projection of rage and hatred.

In the face of such absurdity, I would like to again state that imo Jesse's comment wasn't even an insult! Rather, it is a very valid question that I have asked ALL those (elders) around me who believe in past gurus; what do we know about them, really? Perhaps in today's world, they would be caught doing Sat Purush only knows what!? How can we possibly know who they were in their private moments, gurus 500, 1000, 2000 years ago, when we don't even know what the current gurus are up to in their private moments? It is easy for traditional religionists to laugh at the numerous sexual, financial and celebrity scandals associated with today's "gurus", whilst they blindly believe their gurus from hundreds and thousands of years ago were "Saints". The truth is, we don't know anything!

Moving on from that, here is my personal thoughts on the Sikh gurus (I hope I too am not traced and killed by Sikh fundamentalists....I know some of them, and live less than a few miles from their heartland in the UK! It would be quite ironic if they did kill me, whilst most of them probably actually know very little about the Sikh gurus, I used to sleepwalk as a child of 4 or so, and I would get up & go and sit in front of our family picture of Guru Nanak and and place my palm on his forehead for ages, on many occasions.......my mum used to follow and observe me, and tell me afterwards and when I got older! Primary school teachers would say "draw a picture of your family", and I would draw a picture of Nanak, etc etc What's that all about? :).

Anyway, in regards the Sikh Gurus, when I started following RSSB properly, aged 18 or so, I read all their books (multiple times!) and I was forced into an inevitable conclusion, even though it is nowhere stated in any RSSB book even remotely.......that the 6th to 10th Sikh Gurus were not actually "Satgurus", according to the RSSB definition. The criterion for discerning a "Satguru" is clear; an explicit selection of a successor by a "living guru". "Satgurus" CANNOT be elected by a society or committee, they can only be recognised and appointed by a LIVING "Master". All agreed so far? Good :) Well, we know some certain facts; that Guru Arjan Dev Ji DID NOT choose a successor. The 6th Sikh guru, Guru Hargobind, was ELECTED, at age 11, by a COMMITTEE! Further, whilst the first 5 Sikh Gurus were shabd yogis, "turn the other cheek" mystics par excellance, and the gurus whose writings are included in the Granth Sahib (compiled by Guru Arjan Dev, the 5th guru), the 6th to 10th gurus were "warrior-saints" (whatever that even is, as there is no precedent for such in shabd yoga!?) who left no explicit mystical poetry at all (Gobind's "Dasam Granth" was notable to me, personally, as being the most generic and essentially vacuous "spiritual text" I've ever read from well regarded "past mystics", for example one long section with just a thousand descriptive names for God. The others more or less wrote nothing).

This idea came to me, but I kept it to myself (who and why would I tell anyone, and does it even matter, really?!). So, you can understand my surprise that when I visited the Beas library (I used to go every day, as I had nothing else to do at Beas after morning satsangs!), I picked up a random book written by some independent Sikh guy whose name & title I forget, and in it he makes the claim that "it is known" (or some such) that RSSB and Sawan do not believe the 6th to 10th Sikh gurus to be real "Satgurus"!! :-o I was flabbergasted that what I considered my personal theory was apparently also believed by Sawan! I believe I have mentioned this once or twice on the RSS forum, and if I recall correctly, somebody affirmed they also heard this.....perhaps it was MBW (very well known & informed RSSB devotee)...it is possible I have imagined that RSS confirmation though.

Now, retrospectively, I still believe the first 5 Sikh Gurus were "mystics" in the traditional sense........but I believe "the universe" sent the 6th to 10th gurus to preserve this teaching and faith (due to the attacks of Islamic regimes, with many Sikh gurus actually killed or tortured by them), so both "currents" were needed, as there is no way the first 5 gurus, the mystics, would have armed and defended themselves.

Point is this.....if Sikh fundamentalists were to find out about this hushed up RSSB view about the 6th to 10th Sikh Gurus, a view which if not explicit is IMPLICIT in the RS teachings, how do you think they would react?

It is best not to wish attack on others, lest such witchery turn back on you seven fold :)

Cheers, Manjit!

Just returned from G. Singh's visit to Johannesburg South Africa-

His gas-lighting and dependency on flirting were nauseating. As before, initiates were often depressed, beside themselves and on the brink of suicide. His response to their anguish was reflective of the ' careless rich' of 'The Great Gatsby.'

His visit followed shortly after Mandela Day- Mandela would have walked out.

Catherine,

Mandela (were he alive and not burning in the hottest pit of hell for his uniquely evil life) should have been thrown out by the crowd and "necklaced" as he and his wife prescribed doing to white people.

Thank goodness Russia is trying to help the Afrikaners. If any of the cultists here want to pray for something, pray for their safe escape from the openly declared genocide being committed against them.

If Gurinder didn't mention the farm murders going on there, then he only came to extract money and he has no soul.

Jesse

Race is the issue in South Africa, which leads me to ask- 'Are North Indians white?

"History of Ancient India' by Rama Shankar Tripathi tracks the history and cultures of people of Ancient India to the Moslem Rule. Over and over he reveals in great detail, that the cast system is based on colour.

Gurinder is very white; he hails from the ruling class/ high cast Jat system in the Punjab and continues the ancient subjugation of the farm workers as serfs through the convenience of the post Moslem rule vehicle of the Dera- a tax-free haven for his pharmaceutical family; and through a member of the family posing as the self-effacing charming Guru God ( a construct also only permitted by the colonial British after the Mogul rule) In this case the Guru has an unprovable method and an ever changing cosmology borrowed from whatever is currently popular.

Today, Gurinder, is a populist with a dumbed-down, simplified philosophy- a front.

This time around- there are no levels, no rulers of regions and souls just go straight from here to Sach Khand to sit forever next to 'Huzur.' Who would like to do that as an ultimate goal? Anybody? Do we even know what that entails?

Seekers were advised not to google. Initiates were advised to stop reading and questioning. The ideal initiate was described as someone who would believe him when he said the sun was the moon. Speakers, he said, should not really prepare- it was preferable that they spoke off the top of their heads.

I still cannot work out why he wears Sikh clothing- Sikhism ( and the Indian Government) practises the rejection of the cast system- even though most are tall, white, with high foreheads and in higher positions.

Since he was in South Africa, he could probably see what kind of reaction he got from gaslighting not just about what appeared to be a soft target- women,- but perhaps he should try in future, colour, race, weight, height and religion.

At least Mandela thought- the SA constitution is one of the most liberal in the world.


Entire abuse & anger of Tara & this blog operator is based only & only on financial dealings of Dhillon families & singh families.
Babbajji is a Spiritual Perfect Master so it will be better for this blog owner & Tara to try & find out from those enlightened souls who are sincerely following the path as a true disciple that what kind of Spiritual experiences they have experienced so far. I know most of them will keep mum as ordered by Babbaji. But I definitely know many sincere disciple who after getting Intiated by Babbaji have experienced inner light & sound loud & clear as a result of their sincere efforts on the path as ordered by Babbajji.
So request you guys to stop fooling yourself & harming yourself by propagating against a True Perfect Master who is God in the form of Human came to the earth to liberate those souls who wanted to get liberated from the cycle of Birth & Death.
Rest is your Goodluck or Badluck depending on your actions. 😊

Hi Darmesh!

Good post, but while I mostly agree, and can confirm the truth of your statements in the main, my view has changed a bit recently in light of the financial revelations.

The Masters enjoin us to meet four basic vows:
1.Vegetarian Diet,
2.Abstain from alcohol and recreational drugs
3. Live a clean, moral life
4. Engage in at least 2 1/2 hours of meditation each day (that's tithing 10% of our time).


There are other recommendations, such as Seva, and the Masters teach us to forgive and forget, as well as to place the highest value on the Spirit and our duty to develop that through our meditation. Part of that, as Baba Ji Himself taught, is to view the three vows as chair legs for the fourth. Our meditation and spiritual development can only proceed in a calm environment of humility before the spirit, and that is what the other three vows help to create: The atmosphere and the attitude for meditation.

Where there is immoral behavior, the entire system falls apart.

Baba Ji's cousins, even his wife, and his friend Sunhil, all were engaged in land speculation that involved keeping secrets, engaging in illegal activity, and involving RSSB assets (if only as collateral). They gave loans to their own private holdings, and made loans to organizations so they could borrow back from those organizations in order to pay other loans.

In America, we've seen this sort of thing before: The housing loan bubble, the 1929 stock market crash. It's called leveraged buying, buying on margin, and there are very tight regulations to prevent financial collapse. Where those regulations are ignored or circumvented, disaster happens.

So why engage in illegal behavior?

Similarly, the Singh brothers knowingly allowed medication quality inspections to be rubber stamped. This is both illegal and immoral. People depend upon these medications. It wasn't a single incident, but multiple incidents.

In some ways this has nothing at all to do with our mediation, or Baba Ji as a spiritual leader.

But when we find ourselves connected to illegal activity we must, out of pure moral duty, help to bring the truth to light, and to make sure justice is done, hopefully with compassion.

Baba Ji has simply been silent through all these dealings. In fact He pursued all these centers across the globe that became the collateral for many of the loans. His actions, whether by design or accident, became the foundation for much of the corruption that has taken place.

So now he is tainted by these issues.

it's one thing for a Master to act strangely, kiss prostitutes, etc, have folks make platforms until the cows come home.

But it's another altogether to be in the center of immoral behavior that has harmed many other people in the service of those proud young executives trying to better the world by making lots and lots of money quickly.

It's immoral.

And if there is one single benefit that accrues from spiritual practice, from working to become a little less sinful, it is the capacity to understand morality.

And it makes those violations, over decades of time repeatedly, but hidden, and with Baba Ji's tacit compliance, simply the more agregious. It's wrong. No way around it.

Our Master must be the model of morality, not the model of corruption.

Baba Ji would not be the first soul to reach spiritual heights, to help many others, and then fall himself.

No true Saint would associate with such financial corruptions, would tacitly support such behavior year after year after year, decade after decade.

No true Saint would hide their own sins. They are accountable to the Sangat as is each of us.

Vow 3. It may not be easy, but for a true Saint, should be a piece of cake.

The path is real, Baba Ji's power is real.

But breaking vow 3 is an abuse of that power.

Tara claims that Baba Gurinder Singh has not built a single hospital.

Totally wrong, he built Charan Singh Charitable Hospital and the Bhota Charitable Hospital, here is the link

http://www.rssb.org/hosp_mcschSikanderpur.html

http://www.rssb.org/hosp_bhota.html

And she claims Dera Hospital has been closed, ridiculous as per the website it is still functioning.

http://www.rssb.org/hosp_beas.html

Since not all claims of Tara are verifiable, atleast these were and some of her claims are therefore false. Who knows about other claims she made.

1989 Dera Eye Camp was going to be the last one thats why only 1989 Eye Camp was filmed as a Documentary

You can download it here
https://player.vimeo.com/external/167816180.hd.mp4?s=cddfce0ad521021ef23f68aa3b8802438830665a&profile_id=174&download=1

http://www.rssb.org/pdf-dl/Love%20In%20Action.pdf

Mr. Gurinder singh dhillon after departure of Maharaj Charan Singh is not deserve to be Guru, This is Maharaj Charan Singh order for you to surrender your post, Maharaj ji gave you his seat for the welfare of public but you are taking the people to Ashtray, As he is Billionaire and run for his money and business round the clock also he is greedy for luxury like move in private jet etc, and he is giving naam process to million of people and now when million of people will follow his instruction they will gain his greedy energy, for the people who want to become rich and want to grow in business for them to contemplate on Mr. Gurinder dhillon is very good, as he is successful business man, but for the true devotee who want to grow on spiritual path will take him to Astray, Maharaj Charan singh was spiritually lifted man and know the inner path with his own experience, by gazing on him the follower get peace, but why gurinder dhillon is doing this with public , he has to ask for forgiveness from all human for making them fool and accepting he is not Guru, he can not lead the human kind and must give advise to bow head only in front of One God, not in front of Fake guru, Guru and god is same , one but Guru should be complete, but it is very difficlut in today time to find true guru So guru Gobind singh has given command to accept Guru gRanth sahib as Guru, I also state accept Bhagwat Geeta, any Vedas , Guru Granth sahib or any writing of previous true saint as your guru but do not follow fake gurus , Mr. Gurinder dhillon before you die ask forgiveness from the public, and request you to don't give seat to next person who is not spiritually lifted when you depart from this earth, give the land and all for public homeless people .WAO WAO GURU Gobind singh ji before his departure he stated very clearly to accept Guru Granth Sahib as Guru so that human will not lead to astray,

Like

WOW AND BUMP.

Even more Kudos than I originally lavished for this remarkable collection of comments by the Goddess Tara.

Astonishing these date back to 2014!

If this was going to be written - at least do a decent coherent piece. This just appears a bitter article because you have started to question your perceived observations and seem to have twisted these to fit your argument and point. You seem to hint that their wealth means something snidy is going on. World doesn't change much - poor or rich - lets judge them! Your probably thinking also this is a deluded conditioned follower who can't know their left from their right!
All I'm acutely aware is that my relationship with 'truth' in my relationship - that which I'm aware in this wordly plane, call me deluded - I really don't care. Words are limiting. Everyone is accountable by their own actions - faith or no faith. A good person or god being does not have to be in golden robes and walk on water on this earthly plane. But oh I forget they have to woo us. Lets just focus on ourselves - I'm sure you are now!!!

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