What if Jesus died on the cross and was dead forever?

Since I'm an atheist who doesn't believe in Christianity or any other religion, I'm free to imagine alternatives to theological myths that would be more beneficial to society.

For example, Jesus dying on the cross and then remaining dead. 

I'd find this way more inspiring than the Biblical story of his subsequent resurrection. Sure, dying on a cross so that the sins of humankind can be washed away is an admirable thing to do.

But Jesus' sacrificial altruism is markedly lessened if we assume that the final outcome was being brought back to life and spending eternity with God in heaven. 

Hey, who wouldn't be willing to be crucified if the choices were (1) eventually dying and being dead forever, or (2) dying on a cross and then living forever? I'd choose the latter, for sure, and I make no claims to any sort of righteousness.

This is why I much prefer viewing Jesus' death as a secular, not supernatural, story.

I can envision him believing that he was atoning for the sins of humankind by his crucifixion, even though this belief was just a fantasy. And I see Jesus expecting that he would die and be dead forever, yet willing to be crucified anyway for a greater good.

Everybody loves heroes who sacrifice themselves to save others. 

My father's mother comes to mind. She died giving birth to him. Now, she didn't know this would happen when she became pregnant. However, in the early 1900s childbirth was a heck of a lot more risky than it is now, so every woman who had a child was a hero, as is still true today.

So as long as I'm messing around with the New Testament, I'd like to change the virgin birth to a regular birth. This makes Mary, Jesus' mother, like every other woman, just as my refashioned Jesus is like every other human in that he died and was dead forever.

I readily admit that my revisions to the Jesus story wouldn't attract many adherents. However, I can see numerous benefits if people didn't believe in an afterlife that almost certainly is a religious fantasy. Here's a few of them. 

Accepting that each of us has just one life to live would automatically make that life exceedingly precious. So atheism actually is the most pro-life worldview. Religious believers can be rather cavalier about sending soldiers off to die, taking health insurance away from children, or putting up with dangerous pollutants. 

Hey, their thinking goes, no problem. God is in charge and will usher the faithful into the Pearly Gates after they die, so what's the big deal with foreshortening some people's lives when eternity awaits them?

Well, this is a hugely big deal if instead of dying and being reborn, everybody dies and is dead forever. Which again, is almost certainly the way reality works.

Now I'm not saying that every atheist acts in the life-affirming fashion that I'm describing here, so please refrain from leaving a comment on this post about the horrors that unbelievers like Stalin have wrought. Atheists can be horrible people just as religious believers can be. 

My point is just that when someone sacrifices themselves for a greater good without expecting a reward in heaven, this is a more exemplary act than if the person believed that a wonderful afterlife awaits them.

Thus Jesus would have been a better example for humanity if he had willingly died for our sins (or any other selfless purpose) knowing that after being crucified, that was the end of the line for him. After all, this is the stark human condition known to anyone who sees how things are without religious blinders: 

We are born. We live. We die. Forever. 

That's scary. We have a natural desire to cling to life and avoid death, since any living organism without this attribute wouldn't be an evolutionary success story.

Thus when someone faces death bravely or willingly, putting their own self-interest and fear aside for the benefit of others while knowing that no afterlife awaits, this is way more admirable in my view than someone like the Biblical Jesus who dies with the expectation of heaven.

(I'm no expert on the Bible, but I just Googled "did Jesus know he would be resurrected" and found a bunch of Yes's on the first page of the search results, so the Great God Google has spoken. See here, here, here, and here.)

Another benefit of accepting that each of us is living the only life that we ever will have is so obvious, I won't dwell much on it here other than to point it out: this produces a sense of gratitude and preciousness in every moment insofar as we are able to keep in mind our inescapable mortality.

Meaning, recognizing that our lifetime is limited, not eternal, infuses our earthly existence with a large dose of Make the freaking most of it! that is absent when a religious mentality gives us a false assurance of an afterlife.

It's like a reverse Pascal's Wager. Betting on an afterlife dilutes our ability to enjoy and appreciate life to the fullest, while accepting the finitude of life enhances our ability to view every moment as infinitely precious, since no other sort of infinity exists for us.

 

Comments

[Spencer Tepper]

Beautifully written Brian.
Death makes life more precious, and sacrifice more heroic. This moment will not come again. Giving up something limited is real giving. So the altruist argument goes.

But If there is no after life, what is the purpose of toiling for humankind and wasting the opportunity to enjoy these precious days? You only go around once so grab for all the life you can get. If you can get away with it now, you will not have to pay the price later. So the hedonist argument goes.

But the ethical argument is a little different. The instrument of ethical behavior is a compass, not a clock.

People do good without thought of reward, and sacrifice their time here for others because it isn't a sacrifice for them. It's their passion. They do the right thing "just because."

Jesus didn't actually sacrifice. His only job here was for us, and that included His crucifixion. He was doing His duty out of love for His Father. Time had nothing to do with it. He sacrificed nothing that was his. His time here was assigned to duty, which He fulfilled perfectly. But that was not limited even to this life.

Life, death and sacrifice had nothing to do with it.

To do good has no reference point in time. Doing good because of the joy of being good is a connection to something universal and eternal within us.

Yes, "we" will die. "We" (this personality) will end (and some of us are fine with that). But our immortality comes in living inside an eternal love, a principle of duty, truth, kindness, goodness, justice, forgiveness that has no beginning and has no end. Time doesn't exist for anyone acting on a duty to honor, compassion and love for our fellow human beings. There is our immortality, the only one we ever need. And the only one that actually exists.

[Joe]

I've never really understood how Jesus dying on the cross is supposed to save us from our sins. Maybe somebody can explain it to to me.

[Spencer Tepper]

Hi Joe
You wrote
"I've never really understood how Jesus dying on the cross is supposed to save us from our sins. Maybe somebody can explain it to to me."

In the laws of Judaism sins are cleansed through the blood sacrifice of an innocent creature.

Jesus said this didn't cleanse the heart of sin, and was both a misguided and foolish practice, but just to put an end to this once and for all time, He Himself would become that innocent sacrifice to cleanse all the sins of the world, in keeping with the law. And then the Jews would no longer need to continue doing this.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

:Quoting Blogger Brian:

"atheism actually is the most pro-life worldview"

Is this not preaching atheism? I could be mistaken, but I was almost just inclined to start only believing in the darkness of my shadow.
---

:Quoting Blogger Brian:

"recognizing that our lifetime is limited, not eternal, infuses our earthly existence with a large dose of Make the freaking most of it! that is absent when a religious mentality gives us a false assurance of an afterlife."

False assurance, what if this assurance is actually true -then what? As Hazur Sawan Singh Ji taught, Maharaj Charan Singh Ji just relays the same message. "Go within and see for yourself what is there.."

Even if there is only darkness continue to do the method given at Initiation. For within that darkness hides the the truth. No true teacher has ever veered away from the 'doing' in this scientific experiment. As with any experiment, the correct formula must be acquired from the proper professor. Then properly applied to know for sure.

Any good scholar will ask questions aftarwards. Even do extra credit or endeavor a tutor if sincere in the study.

This 'assurance' as you call it taken from a spiritual professor is just a gesture on a leap of faith. If God doesn't exist, then what have you lost? But if God does exist, then what have you gained?

I have a quote that illustrates this same point:

"..if someone were to say to me, "I have here a six-shooter and I have slipped one cartridge into it. Why don't you just spin it and pull it once? If you survive, I will give you $1 million." I would decline―perhaps stating $1 million is not enough. Then he might offer me $5 million to pull the trigger twice―now that would be a possitive correlation between risk and reward!.." -Warren E. Buffett

[tucson]

This body-mind we call "me" appears in and ceases to appear in consciousness.

Consciousness cannot be known as an object because there would have to be a subject consciousness to know the object consciousness.

There aren't two. There is just consciousness.

As what I really am, I am consciousness unconscious of being conscious.

I can't know what I am because I would be objectifying my self and calling that objectified concept "me".

I see that I am a kind of thing that is no thing.

But I am not a non-object which is, when conceptualized, a kind of object.

I am objective absence which is subjective presence unaware of its absence or presence.

I, therefore, am not, whereby I am.. I who am every and no thing, and neither any nor no thing.

Any concept we have of ourselves is making an object out of formless subject.. trying to objectify itself.

This process is futile and illusory.

What is real can't be known.

There is just the being of it.

Merry Christmas.

[Jim Sutherland]

To Joe,.....
The death on the Cross is a Biblical Allegory, meant to be understood by Mystics initiated in to Spiritual Esotericism,....i.e. ANY SPIRITUAL Path that takes the Initiate Inside.

The Christian Bible, New Testement, was not written by any historical man named Jesus.

It was written by Initiates using an example of a physical, historical man, to explain Spiritual, Esoteric instructions of how to discover the Master Within.

The Bible records ( written by these Mystics) that “ Life is in the Blood.” / this may be proven, scientificslly, by Medical Science, under microscopic examination, viewing the Blood cells in blood. )

The Biblical Allegory is, every physical Human, ( Jesus, as the Example), must shed his blood,....i.e. “ life”,....up on the Cross,...i.e. human body, = arms out stretched from standing torso,..( Cross example), ,....for the “ Sins of the World.”

“ Sin” is missing the Mark, or separation from God.

The Allegory of the historical man, Jesus, ( every Mystic) came to shed his blood, ( life), on the Cross, ( human body) , to pay for the Sins, ( separation from God) , of the world. ( ALL of US, from the beginning of Creation.

Sant Mat Initiation is the continuation of the Age Old Initiation of Blood Sacrifice of the Cross, by all humans trapped in human bodies seeking to escape sin by blood sacrifice.

Jesus was the last Sacrifce, and The Sant Mat Sacrifice is bloodless, when practiced by praying in the “ Upper Room”, ( our forehad at the Third Eye, ), until we hear “ a Mighty Rushing Wind, ) as taught in Acts, in the Bible where Mystics were praying,...and seeing “ Tongues of Fire”,....The Light, or Flame at the Third Eye.” ( all taught in the Book of Acts, in the Bible.

Tithing is taught, in the Old Testament, i.e. giving 1/10th of our time praying, seeing God within, testing Him, to see if “ He will open tne Windows of Heaven for us to go within.”

But, those who fo not Tithe, ROB Him, by not going within.

I can give references, to any onecurious. PM me, if interested, ( no Preaching allowed here.)

Merry Christmas on Christmas as Day from the Good Ole USA

Jim Sutherland

[vinny]

Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
Born again implies breaking / destroying identification with mind / body / psycho-somatic complex.
This identification with mind - body complex breaks when mind stops with the strength of Ruh.
Its a brutal war against carnal self / desires - thoughts . By following teachings of Saints & enduring hardships , Slowly Ruh gains strength & mind is frozen by strength of Ruh.
At that moment when mind stops , disciple enters Samadhi / Trance . This brutal war against Nafs results in damage to physiology / anatomy of body & disciple can even suffer cardiac arrest or coronary artery disease . Only a Saint Soldier can fight against Nafs , this path is not for weak hearted risk averse people.

[Spencer Tepper]

Hi Vinny

You cited Jesus in the Bible but out of context, to replace birth into Spirit as Christ teaches (birth into the audible spirit gives us freedom to come and go as we please - freedom from death), but instead you describe it as some sort of inner battle.

"Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

Here is the full citation from John 3:
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
John 3: 1-8

[777]

For more Bible Bashing :

Lilith the beautiful

Eva the steak (apple) introducer, ending paradise plus nice animal-understanding

Abel : Killer of the Lambs

Kain The Vegetarrian

and they didn't even start the Queeste :-)

77

the Githa makes more sense

[Joe]

Thanks to you all who answered my question. Best of the season to you.

[Arjuna]

At Spencer - point 8 you quote is just gorgeous. I take it it’s a reference to the sound?

Sorry Brian - I have a question. Jesus stated if thine eye be single - they who body will be full of light. I recently read a book called the Science if mediation and monks have the ability to concentrate and switch to the world and back which is truly amazing. Are they able to access this portal if it exists? Is that what Jesus meant.

Kind regards to all of you.

[Spencer Tepper]

Hi Arjuna

Point 8 is actually passage 8 from John 3: John 3:8. These are all passages from John 3.

As for Matthew 6

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Matthew 6:19-22

This is how build our treasure in heaven.

The Latin vulgate has the term nequalm where we read the word single. Nequalm is "undisturbed", ie; focused, undisturbed mind immediately sees internal light, and this is the first major heavenly treasure.

[Arjuna]

Thanks Spencer - that was nice to read