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October 16, 2017


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Anonymous, the entire Path of Sant Mat is based on quotations from past Masters,and Saints.

Charan wrote two books on the Bible, along with John Davidson’s massive book about Jesus.

And Dr. Stone wrote “The Mystic Bible” no longer in print by RSSB , but sells used for $300 and up, when ever it is found. Its all Bible Teachings.

The Apostle Paul, never saw Master Jesus in the flesh, and was his enemy,...until the Radiant form of Jesus appeared to him while riding his horse, and the Lght was so Bright, he fell off his horse on the way to Damascus to persecute Christians.

The Light was so bright, that Paul was blinded. Jesus spoke to Paul, as Charan spoke to me, in his Radiant Form.

Paul was told to go to Damascus and find a Master named Ananias to pray for him, which he did, and was initated in to the Path.

He became a Master who wrote most of the New Testament in the Bible.

His Epistles is the history of the transition from Judism to Christianity.

What have you got against the Bible?


Jen said :
"""Surely men will have to strive on this earthly plane to vanquish lust otherwise they will be severely tempted on the inner planes.""

Jen, if you knew what Charan answered about this
you would take back your arrogant words like lightning

Same for all judgements and so many times using on this blog vulgar words
instead of the original simple figure



Well, 777, showing your true colours at last, calling me arrogant, and saying I use judgements and vulgar words. What a joke! You are supposed to be the faultless, faithful, enlightened satsangi!

Spiritual Gems: extracts from the letters of Huzur Maharaj Sawan Singh Ji to seekers and disciples:
Page 43

"The world is the design of Kal and maya, the negative forces. To keep the soul down, they based the structure of the world on couples, man and woman. If both man and woman were to catch the sound of Nam and rise up, both would be free. Here, one holds down the other. And because we have not seen the other side of the whole picture, we take our present existence and our surroundings as the normal affair. Strictly speaking, we are living an abnormal life.

Page 44
Those who indulge in kam for the sake of indulgence are doing no good to themselves. To hide their ignorance or weakness, they call this indulgence a physiological necessity and have gone to the extent of advocating the use of contraceptives etc. All that is due to the weakness of human nature. Those who indulge for the sake of children should try to control themselves when they have the required number of children...

Again, to indulge after conception, and so long as the child is dependent upon the mother, is something inhuman. Here again, to defend our weakness, we may propound any code; but weakness is weakness, and no amount of defence will convert it into strength."

Wow, what a different world it was then. So different to Gurinder's approach now!

Concerning Lust, one of the Five Passions:

I was at a question and answer session where this young guy (a millennial) maybe in his early 20s asked Baba Ji about dating and casual sex in today's world.

As I am just a bit older than the questioner and from Gen. X still at first I could not accept the answer. Baba Ji's answer went something like this: "Yes in today's world it is harder to build a relationship without the element of sex. But by and by one should try to control it and lessen its use."

I now see how accurate Baba Ji's teachings are to the teachings of old, as Sawan Singh Ji also explained that lust can some what be controlled by our minds. But ultimately true control will only come threw grace and contact with the Shabd. So Baba Ji's reply from the top of his head shows mastership of the path and its teachings, imo. And replying to a millennial twice as young as he -at that.

Supporting Quote:
"Kam ordinarily means lust or passion or indulgence in the sensual desires as opposed to self-control; but in its wide sense, it means all outward tendencies of the mind."
-Sawan Singh Ji

[This is quote defining lust not only from a sexual sphere but as anything that can be indulged in, or anything that can keep one's focus away from Naam - Seems that the only difference in Baba Ji's style of teaching Sant Mat is that it's all from memory and Baba Ji has yet to have written any books.]

To Karim , 777 and others who have voluntarily confessed to be Muff Divers and, or, Flute blowing Satsangis, or Ex Satsangis.

Are you doing your Simran of the Five Names during giving Oral Sex?

Simran is supposed to be going on 24/7 by inititiated Satsangis.

Simran is suppossed to be the “Tool” used to raise the soul above body Consciousness, while stopping the Mind from binding the knotted soul.

So, how can the soul escape from the mind using tongues for Oral Sex?

The tongue is not used in performing Simran.

Maybe there is becoming a new, Sant Mat Mantra , that is Hummed?


:Quoting Jim:

"To Karim , 777 and others who have voluntarily confessed to be Muff Divers and, or, Flute blowing Satsangis,"

I admitted to a truth that I've pleasured women in the past. But then you add to my words other things that are your own judgements when you don't know me or If I've risked my life to save other peoples lives. Yet I'm not bothered much by your judgements because I know I was being truthful, yet I still done claim to being a human without sin or weakness of the flesh.

Do you claim you are without sin, Jim? If you can truthfully claim that the more power to you.

Sadly, I could have taken a jab at you for your comment downplaying Islam before. When Sant Mat as taught by even your Master Charan Singh Ji accepts all religions and would never advocate the downplaying of anyone's religion to which they were born. Especially another disciple's or a honest seeker. And Islam has many different doctrines highly misunderstood even by Muslims.

Yet I don't feel it would be right to take a jab at Christianity like you did Islam. As Baba Ji even teaches that all the major religions are accepted into Sant Mat. So your judgements are something you will have to answer yourself for to Jehova/Allah/Radha Soami or which ever name you give to the One God of Abraham.

The Holy Bible says;
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Mathew 7:1-2 KJV


"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone" John 8:7 KJV

On Simran; it is to be repeated anytime the mind is free from active thought. Done to help the practitioner still the mind and hone in to catch the Shabd that is ever resounding in the eye center.

Good luck to you Jim! :)

Jim yes you confirmed you are obsessed with sex thoughts! Thats for sure now.

Anonomous writes,...”Jim yes you confirmed you are obsessed with sex thoughts! Thats for sure now.”

Me:.....I traveled accross the planet to get a break from discussions about sex, considering that Sex and Politics in the U.S. has been in the News Media daily, since the Presidential election.

It never seems to end. It has always been the Elephant in the room, but it surfaced as daily dscussions since Pres. Bill Clinton was caught receivieving oral sex in the White House, and said to the Amercan people on live T.V. ....”I have never had Sex with that woman.”

Since then, youngsters in school do not consider going oral each other Sex!

Then, Clinton’s Haram of infidelity and sexual escapades surfaced, and it has never ended to this day!!

In fact, it has now become so ramped and has surfaced in present Politcs, among elected Officials, Hollywood, Sports Stars, Police, Colleges and Under Graduate Schools, and it goes on, day, by day, by day, with another new sexual scandel a day appearing on the Media,

And, let’s face it, India has as many, if not more, sexual scandals, among Gurus, Lamas, and Monks!

So, to accuse an old man like me that has to pray to take a piss, let alone to even think about sex, is about a big a Joke as it can get.

So, I travel to India to join a “SPIRITUAL RETREAT” according to the Dera Brochure of Instructions, of how to act, and what to expect, and I expected to escape the usual daily Sex jokes I hear daily on T.V. and the Political scene, and I expect to hear from God In Human Form how to access the fastest Path to Sach Khand.

And what do I hear from the Master, His Self?

Quote Guriinder,....”do you like buts? Do you still like your wife’s but? Do you know what a 69 is?”

So, it should be no surprise that I am I’m in a captive audience of sexual deviants, and can’t even find any refuge away from sex discussion here, among Satsangis and Ex Satsangis, and supposedly, Spiritual Seekers!!!

So, why would I have sex on my mind?

Excuse me. I need to go mediate, and do Simran so I mght be graced long enough to take a piss.

To you males under 70, don’t laugh, because your turn is coming!!


Jim wake up you talk about oral sex and butts for more than a month now. Its you and only. Gurinder joked but you are rabling all the time. I feel kinda sick now...sorry ...but you are the problem you are talking about. And my but was of no sexual mean and i hope you will not turn to it. I think you are the problem but i still wish you well.

I have just one question to ask you people (Do you give time to meditation regularly?)
If we meditate regularly we will have no questions, no doubts and would never judge because we would know the truth from our own personal experiences 🙏

Wonderful sharing and comments. Speaking of imperfection I too have one thing I'd like the perfect living master, their original title, to walk back: they stated unequivocally that as as PLM they had no former past lives. Only we mere mortals had them, which we cannot recall. I beg to differ on such fine points. I do recall my lives and those around me and have a lead on gurinder life as well.

Again this talk was simply to leave the initiate barefoot pregnant and in the kitchen with an apron girding the loins lol. I believe in Sant mat not because of any masters but because of one fine wonderful thing I heard charan say in the winter/Christmas dera visit I had before he died. He said if we knew the depth and connections we had to the satsangis we encountered we would never want to part from them.

Thus it was all about detachment then and now.


Hi Heloise

You wrote
"as a PLM they had no former past lives"

I'm sorry but this is false. Please provide a specific reference to any Sant Mat book.

In this instance the person who needs to walk back their claim is the one who told you this false statement.

Or you have mis-heard or misunderstood something.

Saints are just like you and I. They may have been pulled to duty for any number of reasons. They may have done this duty before or are new to it in this life.

But if you can find something stating otherwise from the books I would love to be informed otherwise.

We should all be responsible for any accusations we make about others. As we hope they should be about us.

It's a golden rule thang.

I walk a lonely road
The only one that I have ever known
Don't know where it goes
But it's only me, and I walk alone
I walk this empty street
On the boulevard of broken dreams
Where the city sleeps
And I'm the only one, and I walk alone
I walk alone, I walk alone
I walk alone and I walk a
My shadow's the only one that walks beside me
My shallow heart's the only thing that's beating
Sometimes I wish someone out there will find me
Till then I walk alone

Chèr Sean,
Consider it done
Just Look and then Hear

Endless Love


If it was easy there was no creation
next : pray for all

We are ALL Duality Creatures, and will remain so, until we HATE every single material memory we remain attached to, including the Physical Form of our Master, every one of our Relatives, i.e Father, Mother, Brothers, Sisters, all blood reletves, friends and Associates, or people in general.

Then, our Pets, Cattle, Homes, Auto, Scooters, and every single possible attachment. We only are attached to what we remember in THIS lfe, but in Meditation, we become exposed to past lives, and more past attachments and Samsaras of our Higher Soul Selves.

Are there any among us who are 100% ready to permanently depart Duality to merge in to Oneness of THE ONE , and remain there , deleting all of our past created Dualities and karma?

Or ..are we all just blowing smoke and Bull Shitting and trying to one up each other?

I like my Duality, as long as I can come and go from here to the Void , and return when ever I sit in Meditation.

Jim Sutherland

Osho Robbins is a big lier.
All fake allegations.
All are fake.

RS Skeptic wrote,,....”Jim has nothing but belief, and that too is now shattered.
what a wasted life”

Jim answers, .......I just noticed this snotty remark, Mike, and have to ask, why do you imagine my life has been wasted! I may be a complete unknown, among RSSBers, and Satsangis in total, including the Gurus, but trust me,...I have had a very complete, satisfying life, while perserving my Dignity, ethics, Moraity, all while proving value to dozens of Employers over my working Career of well over 50 years, and retiring as a self made Millionaire after starting in poverty, born in a no where town in the USA. Plus, have visited 70 countries. So, Mike, show me your Credetials, up to date, and I’ll show you mine. Then we will allow the Church Members here to determine who’s life as been wasted the most.

Third time now I repeat Charans reaction

"I dance like a bear"

That was when a potential Ballerina gave her dancing career credentials

But Jim, who are we to judge : YOU learned about Jesus
saying "Before Abraham, I AM"

I think everfything needs to be interpretatated "in relativity"
and as Juan said : "so personal"

. . . and so nice for all of us : "You are already in Satch Khand", Enjoy

This is touching somewhat the Babani situ ( I read this whole chapter again)
Imaging He thought to be a Prima Ballerina himself ??



Hello Sir how can I contact you? I need your guidance related to santmat, I am so confused right now and you can help me. This is the first time writing in this blog though I am a regular reader.

Yes I am initiated, a woman from India.


Mr. Osho Asked

I have a few questions for those who are familiar with the RSSB teachings.
Just simple true/false answers.

1. When the disciple reaches the first region, he becomes all powerful. He is then a Perfect being. True or False-
Ans: Disciple is surat (who is already all powerful but have forgotten) Disciple untill and unless leaves his mind back to par brahm, from where it has been originated, not becomes a perfect being. Even yogis can achieve first region.

2. All the regions were created from Anami region. True or false.
Ans: I dont know about it.

3. The region known as Anami has no beginning and no ending. True or False?
Ans: I cant say.

4. Being able to send the surat up at will and to bring it down again at will, this is called Dhyan. True or false
Ans: False, being able to send surat up at will and bringing it back at will is the whole process of surat shabad yoga where dhyan is just an essential part of this process.

5. The "opening of the shabd" - this is the same as hearing the Dhun and enjoying it's bliss. True or False?
Ans: Yes, this is what I have heard about it.

Now, I want to ask one question to everyone on this blog, do we really have a single person who is initiated and have managed to reach at least to the first region (shasradal kamal)?

Hi Soni:

You ask if anyone on this blog has reached the first stage?

Most initiates, even the exers, but they don't remember, as the brain has not been conditioned to, sensitized to these, and so they have no impression of them, nor any record of them. As far as they remember nothing happened. Further, access isn't under their control.

The regions hardly matter if we ourselves aren't changed. And if we ourselves have had no access how can anyone else's experience help us? How can we even believe them?

Many here have developed an anti-experience perspective.

But yes, the Path is real.

if we are changed, does any region matter?

But if we are not changed, no region can exist for us despite what anyone else says.

But if the question is "how do I make progress?" I would humbly approach any respected member of the Sangat, and be prepared to do two things : 1 Share candidly not only your doubts but more importantly your efforts ; 2.Be prepared to take advice and make renewed and adjusted efforts.

Everyone's efforts are flawed, because we are humans. But human beings, if they are determined, adapt to those flaws and work through them, learning and adjusting. We have so many great creations of humankind, so many inventions, so much beautiful literature and all of it was created in this way: flawed author, flawed designer, flawed researcher working the details over and over to get it right. Meditation, and access to the regions function in the identical way. It's just another achievement and it starts with determination and leaving our ego and pride at the door.

Now, I want to ask one question to everyone on this blog, do we really have
a single person who is initiated and have managed to reach at least to the first
region (shasradal kamal)?

Although not under our control, mystics assert dream
states often reach and draw inspiration from the first
region or astral realm.

There's a fascinating survey of ten discoveries and art,
that were attributed to insights gained in dreams. They
include those of Einstein, Ramanujan, Mary Shelley, Paul
McCartney, Neils Bohr, etc.


Again according to the mystic those who go higher gain
realization about who they are and ultimately can reach
their true home.

@Spencer Tepper- Sir, radhasoami to you..!!
to your answer to my question: Now, I want to ask one question to everyone on this blog, do we really have a single person who is initiated and have managed to reach at least to the first region (shasradal kamal)?

I am grateful that you answered. I am a satsangi, initiated from India. Recent personal incidences of my life has shaken me from within (those are so personal that I dont want to make it public). I come from a satsangi family where my parents, grand parents almost everyone is initiated and they are loving satsangies who keep their faith in Baba ji (we never call him with his name). I too used to sit in meditation since I was a child and I always felt a special connection with Hazur Maharaj ji.
Its recent after something happened in my life that I got shaken up completely from within I started searching for a peace of answer to my questions. I dont know what the questions are.. but I want to know the truth...I dont want to be a blind believer. I love my Master, who initiated me and I have my own reasons and experiences to do that.
Its when I came across this blog I learnt very new things like changing of teachings and all, one among them is that baba ji says no one will come when we die, where in India he specifically says, "don't be in any illusion that the master will come when you will die if you have not attended your meditation (that is if you have not seen the truth by taking your surat up), then it will be his grace (mauj) whether to come or not."
He tells stop reading books, running behind physical form of Master, attending lots of satsangs. This is not cause he says its a waste and he has changed any teaching. He has told this in his many satsangs remembering his master (Hazur), in his words," Hazur taught for years and left, what will you get by reading books, or running behind physical darshan and satsang if you are not obeying the real teaching. The real teaching is to attend your meditation. What are we fooling of, whom are we fooling, if we did not get it when we are alive then we should not fool ourself that after death it will happen automatically and Guru will come. If you have not found him in this life while you are still alive by obeying your master then it is upto Guru whether to come or not come."

For us no teachings are changed, its a myth and the way it is been comprehended by us.

For my personal problems, (which are purely worldly but meant a lot to me) I want to have a talk with someone like you, who could help me to pick my brokenself and get back on work to obeying my duties. I know there is only one way to know the truth and it is to do and see.

You say,"Most initiates, even the exers, but they don't remember, as the brain has not been conditioned to, sensitized to these, and so they have no impression of them, nor any record of them. As far as they remember nothing happened. Further, access isn't under their control."

This has given me a lot of support, we learn from the loving satsangis... you know there are 1000s to bring you down but only few will help you to see that light. By his grace, I think he wants me to go and see the truth and not merely believe what is there in books and satsangs.

Thank you so much for replying..... Lots of love from a satsangi sister from India
Radhasoami ji!

So many here talking ill about Dera. How it is changed from the time when Hazur was there, How captive they felt for they were not free to make call and all the problems they went through during their stay at Dera. People also have problem with the money Baba ji is having. Someone presented Dera as ISIS center where one will always be scared of losing life any moment. Someone explained someone snatched his luggage at station and threw in the vehicles to Beas Dera....

Dera is not some small place where only known, initiated satsangies will come, there come all type of people from all over the world and Dera dont get their police verification done before they step inside dera. The discipline and rules are there to control security of the people like us so that we be safe when inside dera. One day if they will let you be free who knows, not everyone is coming there to search for the peace or light, all sort of local goons, pickpockets, terrorist may come there by seeing the crowd assemble there every month every day. Someday something went wrong, then you only will blame Master for he is a human he was not knowing that bomb will explode and 1000s of satsangis will lose their life. This is like walking both the ways, you want security of life and you crib for the rules and regulations they have in Dera. Is it possible for anyone to control that big crowd only with love and peace when you know you are responsible for the security of lives of 1000s of people? They dont let you call freely from your phone and want to trace every single call made from Dera they have a reason for that, and it is your security. I think we should respect that.

Everyone see that Baba ji is a multimellionaire and has a lot of money. He flies in private planes and what not. Nobody sees how much charity work Dera does for free everywhere in nation and outside as well. But unlike other organizations Dera keep dont publish it on news (as Master says, when you give it from your right hand left hand must not know that is real giving else it creates ego, arrogance). How many time have you seen Dera in news? Free health camps, free surgeries, free medicines and IPD for days and what not. So many poors get benefited and they dont judge them for if they are satsangi or non satsangi while giving free services. Other organization before doing any such charity make sure that it should cover in media. Every satsang witness 1000s of satsangies who stay in satsang to get benefited by the physical presence of Master. They eat lungar, canteens are there and so many free services. Do you think only satsangies attend those satsangs? all local poors, goons and others gets interested otherwise and come to programs like these they be there for free and take the benefit of free lungar and other services (I have seen this with my own eyes).

Hazur before leaving his mortal form has said once,"I am sending someone with stick this time who will bring discipline". Every loving satsangi knows Baba ji likes discipline, that doesn't make him cruel or some terrorist who is gonna kill you if you ask him any question or try to come near to him.

Someone also complained about misbehavior or strictness of Sevadar when they strictly follow what is been told to them. Even in a school the most difficult (who loves to rule, dominate others and sort of goon type of a student) is made the monitor cause he knows all the ways anyone can do mischief and he only can have a control as he does not fear and knows how to dominate and control. Master knows what seva to be given to whom, thats why you have so called strict bad sevadar in security and loving and extremely polite sevadars in lungar, medical department and book stalls, water counters etc. You cannot control all type of public with politeness and love when security is to be maintained.

Dera is beautiful, we in India we would love to spend our life there (even if it is slavery to the beloved Master). No sevadar is been taken as a slave, I too have done mitti ki seva and I totally loved it. When you have pure love inside you, you love becoming a slave of your beloved. I was a slave of the love I had for my late husband and given a chance, I would give anything to get that slavery back.

Dera is changed for good.... Dera is changed as we have changed.

Please pardon me for my bad English as I am not convent educated, but I tried my best to make myself clear here. I am not an intellectual that I know a lot about world and how it runs, but whatever I understood by my personal experience and a little of knowledge I have of santmat I tried to put my thoughts in words. Hope you will forgive me if I unintentionally hurt anyone here.

Radhasoami to all..!!

does post automatically get deleted from this blog? Or someone can purposely delete it?

@Spencer Tepper- Thank you so much Sir, for your reply. It meant a lot to me (who is going through a phase which has a lot of confusion and fear).
You say: (But if the question is "how do I make progress?" I would humbly approach any respected member of the Sangat, and be prepared to do two things : 1 Share candidly not only your doubts but more importantly your efforts ; 2.Be prepared to take advice and make renewed and adjusted efforts.)

Me: I am open to take advice I really want to know the truth, blind faith wont work for me. Whatever logic I have, whatever little experience I have with Master's grace I know I am not on a wrong path. But, I dont want to make it on a public forum, regarding my experiences and problems I am going through ( as Baba ji says one should have strong digestion to excel in spirituality).

I am initiated by Baba ji (we don't call him or any master with name) I accept I am one worst disciple, I cant question for my progress as I did not do my duty of a disciple. Some incidences of recent time has shaken me from within and I am dying to know the truth. I know there is only one way, to attain to what I have known till now since childhood. I need help, I need guidance.

It is my situation which I am fighting with, I started exploring every possible medium to know more about the path and I don't know why I started that. Untill and unless one has personal experience, talking about faith is useless. I end up to this blog and since last one month I am reading it.

Teachings are changed:
I saw people making comments saying Baba ji has changed the teachings... I don't think so, no teaching is changed in India and I wonder if it is only changed for westerners.
1. Some say Baba ji said not to read books (throw books) and claims like that. Yes, he does say that but he also accompany his sentence with ,"Untill we dont practice, we dont attend to our duties (meditation) satisfying our appetite merely by reading books wont work for us, be it we give our life reading books. He also gives example by saying if we are hungry and keep reading books on how to cook we don't get satisfy untill we cook and eat. He also says, " Hazur did satsang for years and went, what did we do...nothing..its time to do some action, reading books, attending satsang and seva all these are for wetting the appetite for his love.
2. Someone also claimed that Baba ji said no one will come when you will die. Now, this is something which is said by him again and again in satsangs. But, nobody told here what he also tells is that if you will not do your duties and will not attain that peace when you are still alive don't be in any illusion that Master will come when you will die, then it will be His will weather to come or whether not, you are claim that you are a disciple and He must come. What you did not get when you can (alive) then dont think you will get it which you are not sure of what will happen after death. He tells this to motivate his children to show some action and not mere words. How beautifully father does his duty, if not with love he uses scoldings to get his child on right path.

It is just how we comprehend what Master tells, and I believe telling the whole story is necessary to let one understand what it exactly was not just telling one sentence "he said throw the books" "he said no one will come".

I am very small in front of all of you and I am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings or faith.

Radhasoami to one and all....!!!

Radhasoami Brian!
I hope you're happy at what you're doing through this blog. May God be always with you!!

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