My current atheist view of a previous religious revelation

For over 30 years I was a devoted initiate of an Indian guru, Charan Singh. He was the leader of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), a spiritual/religious organization headquartered in Beas, India. 

The only time I saw Charan Singh in person was during two weeks in 1977. 

I'd just begun a new job in state government in Salem, Oregon. I had a five year old daughter who was going to get her first bicycle from "Santa." My wife dearly wanted me to be home for Christmas. 

I did too. However, I was even more desperate to see the guru in person after being initiated by him by proxy (via an American representative of the guru, Roland deVries) in 1971. 

The Radha Soami Satsang Beas books talked about the importance of having the darshan (sight) of the physical guru. If a disciple had seen the guru in person, he or she could visualize the face of the guru during meditation -- which was supposed to be a concentration aid.

Most importantly, I was eager to see if, when I saw Charan Singh in person, I'd feel like he was the God in Human Form that the Radha Soami Satsang Beas teachings claimed him to be. 

So for two weeks in late December I visited the Dera, as the RSSB headquarters was called.

Every evening, with maybe a few exceptions, there would be an intimate question and answer session with the guru and visiting Western initiates. Each of us also had two short personal interviews with Charan Singh. And we would see him from afar as we did "mitti" seva (service), which consisted of long lines of people filling ravines with sand one basketful at a time.

(The baskets were carried on top of the head, and they weren't exactly leakproof. The big "miracle" of my visit for me was that even though I wore contact lenses, I never got sand in my eyes.)

I was much impressed by Charan Singh.

I didn't have any grand mystical experiences during my trip to India. I just came away impressed with the guru's undeniable warmth, dedication, love, and sense of humor. Looking back, I must have seen him as a sort of father figure, since I grew up without a father following my parents' divorce when I was too young to remember him (except for one hour I spent with my father when I was in my thirties).

My trip back to the United States began with a flight out of the Amritsar airport. I remember sitting in a window seat, looking at the Himalaya mountains off in the distance. Suddenly I was overwhelmed with a feeling of love and devotion for my guru, Charan Singh.

"I only want your thoughts to be in my mind," I said to myself. Or words to that effect.

The underlying meaning was that I wanted to repeat the mantra ("five holy names") given to RSSB disciples at the time of initiation so assiduously, I'd feel like whatever entered my mind wouldn't be coming from my personal ego, but from the guru -- since it was believed that the guru placed his "radiant form" within each initiate's consciousness, and this spiritual entity could guide the initiate.

Yes, I realize this sounds weird.

But back then I didn't question the truth of the RSSB teachings. I was sure that I'd embarked on what amounted to a mystical meditation experiment that would end with me ascending to higher spiritual regions of reality under the guidance of the inner guru.

So what do I believe today? Well, something similar, actually. Just without any religious connotations. 

As I've written about frequently on this blog, I don't believe in free will. (Put "free will" into the Google search box in the left sidebar to find the posts I've written on this subject.)

Modern science, including neuroscience, argues that every living being is part of a vast web of interconnections that span the vastness of time and space. For example, every entity alive today is related to every other living entity via a Last Universal Common Ancestor that existed billions of years ago.

And our thoughts, intentions, feelings, and what-not are strongly influenced by all of the interactions we've had with parents, friends, siblings, teachers, work associates, and all the other people who have been part of our life. Not to mention the cultural influences we've absorbed through books, music, arts, and so many other ways.

From this perspective, what we do, think, and feel isn't our freely-selected choice. "It takes a village," as the proverb goes. 

Of course, in my everyday life I feel like my thoughts, actions, and emotions are mine, even though I understand that this is an illusion. In the same way, after I had my "I only want your thoughts in my mind" revelation on the flight out of Amritsar, I still felt like I was the one in control of my life, even though I believed that the guru was guiding my steps.

My main point here, I guess, is that becoming an atheist doesn't require leaving behind the good feelings that came with being religious. Those feelings just need to be reinterpreted in a secular sense. For example, I still feel awe and wonder at the grandeur of the cosmos. 

I just don't consider that God or any other supernatural being is part of it.

Comments

[William]

Ditto. I met the man 6 months later over a couple of days, then a month in 1983. Spend a few decades within the teachings. And am now happily following my own path. They almost seem like 'the good old days' to me now.

[Spencer Tepper]

Hi Brian!

Nothing is supernatural. Just outside our experience.

But if we are all connected, can we find communion with a higher power?

We are hard wired to feel the presence of a greater benevolence. Especially in moments of quiet reverence.

It is natural and healthy, and beautiful all of its own.

Beyond that, who knows? But maybe that IS the higher power and no other words are needed?

If you feel an intense joy witnessing the awesomeness in a moment of a beautiful Oregon late summer day, or witnessing the awesome expense of stars in an internal experience in space, both are, for those wired for it, just wonderful moments in the human experience.

Then, what matters but to worship in thankfulness that reality, however it comes to us, expand on that, enjoy such innocent and uplifting experiences as rare gifts?

We are limited, so whatever we experience that is so beautiful to us becomes sacred, as it should.

Theology aside. As it should be.

[123abc]

"The big 'miracle' of my visit for me was that even though I wore contact lenses, I never got sand in my eyes."

—That's not a miracle, of course you wouldn't get sand in your eyes as they were protected and covered by your contact lenses!

[Arjuna]

Brian - Huzar certainly had those qualities as a father figure. I lost my father when I was 7 years old so in many ways wanted that void filled by Huzar. I was 18 years old when Huzar passed away. I was gutted. I only saw him once when I was 9 years old holding my late mothers hand at the Dera. He smiled upon me. I do miss that. I am not sure why this present master leaves me feeling cold - the only memory I have of him is when he called me a "cheat" playing soccer at Haynes. I did nothing bad intentionally - i think. I stopped going to satsang a few years ago. Going made me feel lonely and yes I guess that's more to do with me. I don't really miss it as I believe why worry about anything - even though I'm initiated- Master probably doesn't even know who I am. if only I was a millionaire or good looking Bollywood star I would get attention lol. It's all fun. All the best!

[Mike Williams]

I consider myself a die hard atheist ......
desperately in search of God.

Mathematics says it is a certainty a creator exists .....
The cosmological constant and the fact life itself,
over the eons, would produce a creator from evolution,
even if there had originally been none.

But, if God exists, this does not mean He has given men
an eternal soul.

Logic predicts all men are ants ... and God tramples us under foot.

If Godmen existed ... they would come down to earth to save doves
and rabbits..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUYRoYl7i6U

[Arjuna]

I have been reading this blog fora while - can someone please explain why Master's close family and friends are so rich? Is this gods grace or something I am missing. Surely money ceases to be of interest when you are seeking.

Let's see who answers this rather than debating wishy washy stuff! Amen

[D.r]

They are rich because dumb people give them money in exchange for bullshit.

[Arjuna]

Thanks D.r

It annoys me that so many people in the world are suffering due to poverty and hunger - and this Path condemns them by saying they are suffering due to their karma. The people who follow is path are told to forgive but what greater thing is there than helping the unfortunate. But instead RSSB lot look down upon these souls - there is massive double standards. Surely feeding children in third world countries who have no parents is an act greater than anything. Not against the rich if the money is earned by honest means if such a thing exists. This God we are told to reach is a pretty unforgiving God! I say! They say he is Love- really? If the rich in that group did something worthwhile with their money - I would really say wow!!! Money is the true Satguru!

[Johnny]

Wow, going from a staunch theist and "immaterialist" who was certain "higher realities" could be demonstrated (God's Whisper, Creation's Thunder) to a staunch atheist and materialist. If you are as certain now as of this orientation as you were back in '95 of the "eternal unchanging truth of God", it just goes to show that our certainty (one way or the other) may be untrustworthy.

That being said, I go a step beyond. I understand the fundamental nature of existence to be misery and view mystical experience as a psychological coping mechanism. In the end, the world that it reveals for these people is a abject fiction. Eternal Nonexistence is not to be feared. Were consciousness not snuffed out entirely at death, suffering would go without end since misery is the very essence of conscious existence. Only annihilation can "free" each consciousness from the tragedy that is existence.

Whether a "God" exists or not is frankly beside the point for me. What we can know with assurance is that if a "God" does exist, misery is not foreign or incompatible with its existence. In other words, at the very least, suffering and God would be coexistent. This means that if suffering is not incompatible with God now, it won't ever be. There is no future without suffering. And if a God exists, you can be sure that it suffers too. If it is eternal, then it will suffer for eternity.

[777]

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Yes , math proves it and it's undeniable

Yet there are all these "arguments"

Please for 5 minutes step out of the box

And consider Solopism or Solipsism (wiki) , I'm fine with SOLO : a lot more clear

YOU are really and ever were are 100% GOD

Everything around you is of your own making, You generate every nao second all those illusionists waves/frequencies resulting in atomes/molecules
It's so easy
the good, the bad the ugly, everything, . those complete universes
Not as an accusation meant but as just as a fact ( pls stay a little longer out of yr box )
YOU did this Big Bang some time ago, . . YOU ( much later ) caused cruel evolution
Next you placed YOURSELF in all that with necessary amnesia

What is it, . . that will be squeeze out of all that "imagination" ( because it is not really happening )

Majestic Love

Do you have to go in , to see all that as fundamental truth ?
I don't think so
Math says, proves it :
It's : It's impossible that no God exists
It's also in all rssb books with ancient words

Complaints ? . . . the "culprit" is closer to you than your nose ! ( jésus said that )

REASON :
Whatneeds a guy who has it all , . . knows it all, . . . can't err, is omnipotent,
and already a Zillionair in Love

What does He wants more .....

LOVE

So this is one of 'thousands' ways to accumulate it
Seems hard from the outside
No single atom can escape
and Is so sweet from the inside ( the Truth side )

Those who agree
Do some RSSB meditation ( with a super straight vertebra - for a start ) which opens the necessary Love Sound Stream and Whooop , you are in the "need to know" . . "before Abraham , I am" category

from 777 with Love

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[777]

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Arjuna :
""" called me a "cheat" playing soccer at Haynes. I did nothing bad intentionally """

Perhaps the greatest blessing of yr life, He said that

Years later you might discover the "unknown" subconscious cheat , . . we all are

777

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[Arjuna]

@ 777. Thank you for your kind comments. You made me think!

Years have passed now and I must admit I am lost but inside I knew I was a cheat. I wasn't mediating and I was drinking to get over my demons and sleep at night. Now there is a strange combination drinking to sleep.

I thank you again

[tucson]

Brian wrote: "Modern science, including neuroscience, argues that every living being is part of a vast web of interconnections that span the vastness of time and space. For example, every entity alive today is related to every other living entity via a Last Universal Common Ancestor that existed billions of years ago.

And our thoughts, intentions, feelings, and what-not are strongly influenced by all of the interactions we've had with parents, friends, siblings, teachers, work associates, and all the other people who have been part of our life. Not to mention the cultural influences we've absorbed through books, music, arts, and so many other ways.

From this perspective, what we do, think, and feel isn't our freely-selected choice. "It takes a village," as the proverb goes.

Of course, in my everyday life I feel like my thoughts, actions, and emotions are mine, even though I understand that this is an illusion. In the same way, after I had my "I only want your thoughts in my mind" revelation on the flight out of Amritsar, I still felt like I was the one in control of my life, even though I believed that the guru was guiding my steps.

My main point here, I guess, is that becoming an atheist doesn't require leaving behind the good feelings that came with being religious. Those feelings just need to be reinterpreted in a secular sense. For example, I still feel awe and wonder at the grandeur of the cosmos.

I just don't consider that God or any other supernatural being is part of it."

-- I think Brian does. He just doesn't like the term "God" or the idea that it is supernatural because it isn't. It's natural. It is just as he said above: " a Last Universal Common Ancestor".

[naresh]

have the fake god men threatened you and do you work for them to find traitors i hear that

[Brian Hines]

No, I haven't been threatened by "fake god men." And no, I don't work for them to find traitors. That's ridiculous.