Why I stayed with a religion for 35 years

Today I responded to a person from India who had some questions about my experience with Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), the spiritual guru-based group I belonged to for about 35 years. Here's what I said:

_____, sorry for the delay in replying. I’m not qualified to “guide you through it all,” but I can offer some thoughts in response to the questions you posed. 

The way I see it, one reason people don’t see through religions is because they strongly want to believe in a happy fantasy. That was one reason why I stayed with RSSB so long. I really liked the promise that the guru would reveal to me the deepest secrets of the universe, and that we’d journey together through higher supernatural regions of reality to Sach Khand, where I’d enjoy eternal bliss in my soul-drop form. 

I also liked the supposedly scientific nature of RSSB and Sant Mat meditation. Disciples are told not to take anything on faith, except, perhaps, enough faith to follow the instructions of the guru. I did that. I meditated every day for 35 years, much of that time for 2 or 2 1/2 hours, but almost always for at least an hour. 

I was a strict vegetarian. I didn’t drink alcohol or use drugs. 

Because RSSB doesn’t promise quick results, the path back to God supposedly taking up to four lifetimes, I felt like I should give the meditation practice many years to bear fruit. But after three decades or so, I began to question whether The Path was a genuine one. 

Part of my skepticism came from seeing how high-level sevadars [volunteers] in the RSSB organization acted. I knew that I wasn’t close to being perfect, but I’d thought that RSSB representatives and people at the Dera [RSSB headquarters in India] who were very close to the guru must have developed into advanced spiritual beings.

Well, my experience was that they were as flawed and self-centered as I was. Maybe more so. So that added to my disillusionment with RSSB and the guru. If he wasn’t transforming the disciples closest to him, what were the chances of me being transformed or enlightened? Plus, the more I learned about Gurinder Singh, the guru, the more I came to see him as just another imperfect human being, not “God in human form.”

I also believe that social pressures affect religiously-minded people. I got to know a lot of people during my 35 years in the RSSB organization. I enjoyed those friendships, and the good feelings at RSSB meetings. At first it was hard for me to break off from all that. But then I realized that if someone wasn’t going to be my friend any more just because I no longer believed in RSSB, they weren’t much of a friend to begin with. 

Probably Indians are even more affected by social pressures, since many initiates are part of a family where many (or most) people also are part of RSSB. Given the close-knit nature of Indian families, this must make it even tougher to break away from a tradition that is shared by family members and is so important to them. Us Americans are quite independent, so going against a family tradition usually isn’t a big deal for us. 

(It is, though for people in some religions, such as Mormonism. I’ve heard that it can be very difficult for a Mormon to disavow their religious faith, as other Mormons tend to shame them or have nothing to do with them.)

I don’t know if what I’ve said here will be of much help to you. In the end, each of us has to decide what to believe in and base our life around. Interestingly, I don’t really feel like I’ve changed my life goals. I’m still committed to learning as much as possible about the mysterious universe we’re a part of, and I’m still a big lover of science and the scientific method.

But in science, you go where the evidence leads. You change your mind when a hypothesis doesn’t appear to be true. I did the experiment of Sant Mat/RSSB meditation for 35 years. I didn’t get the hypothesized results. And in all that time, I never came across anybody who convincingly had achieved those results either. So I feel completely justified in going in a different direction.

I still meditate every day. I’m still a vegetarian. I’ve been practicing Tai Chi for twelve years and enjoy Taoist philosophy. So I’m still a seeker of truth. I’m just seeing it in a different way than I did before.

Recently I put up a video of my 2-minute “deconversion” talk at the Portland Atheist Festival. It echoes some of the things I’ve said in this message. See:

http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2016/07/my-2-minute-deconversion-talk-at-2016-portland-atheist-festival.html

     — Brian

Comments

[Appreciative Reader]

Interestingly, I don’t really feel like I’ve changed my life goals.

I empathize strongly with that sentence.

If one's doing it right (setting out on one's "journey" -- in a purely metaphoric sense -- towards understanding what is), then even apparently major milestones, like changing and/or abandoning faiths or techniques, are no big deal really (although important enough at that point in time), no more than physical milestones encountered while driving up the highway.

[JJ]

There must be a lot of us like Brian out-here, drawn to RSSB often years & years ago, got initiated, maybe had a wealth of inner experiences, then either got disillusioned with the organisation or were simply ripe for moving-on ... either way I see that moving-on as a positive! Moving on is a positive. No one has to explain it or apologise for it ... it is a natural progression.

So, while I still look back and really value having had that RSSB experience, the Dera, the sangat, the rose-specs & ideal of a living Master, all that, when the time came I naturally moved-on. So, did I have a choice, was it a conscious choice? No - it was a natural shunt onward. That's just the way it works when the time it right. So, even now, I am eternally grateful for that RSSB-experience/shunt because it actually led me onto the likes of Nisargadatta & all he still offers.

So do I still have any contact with RSSB? Hardly ... but, if the RSSB Master will have me, I'll get off my butt and be at Haynes at 6.00am in two weeks time to get up close and personal with someone who I still consider was instrumental in getting me where I am today. It's all just the way the cookie crumbles!

[Tim Rimmer]

Hey Brian

I agree with your main points outlined in this post.
It certainly seems that Sant Mat as RSSB is now more like a religion than the 'sublime path' I was attracted to over 35 years ago. Add in all the property acquisition and apparent wealth creation issues and any genuine, open-minded truth seeker would have to raise their eyebrows somewhat. Further, I think the continuing focus of RSSB on 'old' literature is also problematic. While some recent publications appear to address this, there is little or no integration/consideration of topics pertinent to meditation and its effects, as well as other associated themes relevant to today's world. For example, findings from modern neuroscience, development of emotional intelligence, ecocentrism, conscious citizenship and the evolutionary process. The last of which will include development of machine consciousness and AI (artificial intelligence), surely one of the biggest challenges to the core concept of the RS faith and many other religions - the soul. Would a future 'synth' be aware of the sound current?

I like your use of the term 'soul drop form' as in my opinion it highlights another aspect of the RS faith I currently have trouble making sense of. Increasingly it seems to 'me' that there is no drop, nothing was separated. I do however acknowledge the role Sant Mat initiation (Charan Singh) and meditation has played in arriving at this realisation, which I now feel is settling into a more than intellectualised awareness, well that's how I see it at present. Yet the soul? - still working on it.

From what I read of comments on this blog, jewels can be found that will aid anyone who really wants to get a better handle on what truth is, like JJ's reference to Nisargadatta's teachings that have also been a great help on my journey. Thanks Brian and all those who contribute

Tim

[Jen]

All my life I have constantly questioned. Why are we here. Where do we come from. What is this life. Where do we go after death.

For awhile Sant Mat answered those questions and now I question Sant Mat. I also question "enlightenment". What works for me now is an occasional glimpse of a kind of stillness, emptiness and unknowing.

I like this from Adyashanti:

"Question your thoughts. Question your stories. Question your assumptions. Question your opinions. Question your conclusions. Question them all into utter emptiness, stillness and joy. The keys to freedom are in your hands. Use them."

[Jim]

Brian You were mislead as was I with Eckankar. But Jurgen Ziewe' slight tweak of the
RSSB technique led to his astounding discovery. Here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDyGpybZc6s. So simple, you wake up early meditate then go back to sleep , then wake in your dream . We don't need no stinkin gurus.

[Tomichan Matheikal]

I wonder if you would like to read my blog post which has RSSB godman as a character:
http://matheikal.blogspot.in/2016/09/celebrities-and-me.html

[Tiya]

Quote Brian [ I did the experiment of Sant Mat/RSSB meditation for 35 years. I didn’t get the hypothesized results.]

Sant mat is not for experimentation. But you did great while doing that. Most 99% dont see the radiant form of master, but with your kind of dedication, many see a lot...

Quote Brian [ I still meditate every day. I’m still a vegetarian. I’ve been practicing Tai Chi for twelve years and enjoy Taoist philosophy.]

Not sure how you meditate or what you do but great to know you are still a vegetarian and practice some form of going within... a request when ever you are stuck, say door knob not opening, lost key, etc etc repeat the holy words. Its not just for sitting in lotus position and meditate like a yogi. you dont have to do only that. every once in a way repeat the words while walking and eating and bathing ... the earning of naam will get collected in your account and one day... it will come handy in a way you wont even know. do it now...just repeat the words five times :)

[Arjuna]

I think a lot of us just want hope - but you are right that there are not many souls who can say there is something.

Perhaps they can tell us what Dark Matter is lol.

However - money is True God in that I was heard that if you do your repetition - the Lord gives you loads. This was at Haynes from a gent who held a high seva once. All we ever wanted was Hope. Not money.

[Spencer Tepper]

Hi Brian

You wrote

"But in science, you go where the evidence leads. You change your mind when a hypothesis doesn’t appear to be true. I did the experiment of Sant Mat/RSSB meditation for 35 years. I didn’t get the hypothesized results. And in all that time, I never came across anybody who convincingly had achieved those results either. So I feel completely justified in going in a different direction."

Absolutely agree about going where the science leads. However, I did get results, some immediate and the more substantial ones, over time.

But most of it, even the simple ones well documented in the mystic literature, are not transferable.

The only transferable information, and it is proven fact, is the hard science on the benefits of meditation (and to a lesser degree the benefits of a largely plant based diet) . And those are substantial. And those effects are measurable.

One worldly benefit I discovered for myself includes the use of Simran and the release of current issues to Master throughout the day as a means of focusing on the actual task at hand and performing much better than when I forget to do so. However, anything that is morally questionable I am forced to state and relinquish. That becomes automatic. So there is also a much more limited life, though a happier one.

The second major effect for me was the realization after the first decade of practice of how much the mind forgets. There are things in deep meditation one remembers that in normal daily consciousness are entirely forgotten. Then meditation becomes a lifeline to one's own self. And lacking that daily mental and emotional cleansing and elevation we are like the Alzheimer's patient who has already lost much of who they were. That is actually most people in their wakeful state.

So when I read about someone meditating sincerely for years without result I wonder if they are like me, but never having gotten far enough above their normal mental functioning, or else having lapsed in their practice, perhaps they became a victim of the amnesia that appears to be built into the normal functioning of the human brain.

If you seriously approach meditation scientifically there are all sorts of wonderful discoveries and enhanced abilities. Our subconscious can become our friend, rather than a threatening, mysterious and largely unknown enemy. There is so much there to discover and enjoy.

But there is also the ever more restrictive lifestyle one adopts to maintain that progress, though that is a happy limited atmosphere, because it maintains and defines the greatest possible "me", and lesser, more emotional and reactive versions, less aware versions of myself, become simply unacceptable.

[Osho Robbins]

Spencer: However, I did get results, some immediate and the more substantial ones, over time.

What results did you get?

"Results" means different things to different people.

You might see some light, even see the radiant form.

But how do you know it's real? and not just hallucination?

After all, there are people who claim to see Nanak, jesus etc.

There is even a person around who claims he WAS Jesus in his previous life and says he has memories.

Do you believe him? or is he deluded?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1XaNU20II8

and mary magdelene is with her too - as his girlfriend

So if you think he is deluded, why can't others be?

[Jim Sutherland]

Osho,

Here is a man claiming he is the Brother of Jesus. He is very intellectual.

,http://cronshaw.us

He has solid past life memories all the way back to Atlantes.

[Arjuna]

Hello Brian

I trust you are well?

May I ask a question and if you don't wish to reply - please don't. In what ways did you begin noticing Gurinder Singh was just as imperfect as the rest of us?

This may help this soul as I need closure on the above question.

Regards

Arjuna

[777]

Arjuna

He certainly thinks like
Nanak : I am The lowliest of the lowly

Seth Shiv Dayal : I'm nothing than Sins - "never did meditation when not forced"
and even sating this I m a hypocrite

Yet, They were appointed
. . the Lovers only think :

https://www.google.fr/search?client=opera&q=lyrics+What+are+you+doing+with+the+rest+of+your+life&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

777