Below is a Church of the Churchless guest post by Osho Robbins.
My wife and I had some new neighbors (husband and wife) over for dinner last night. The man used to be a hypnotherapist. He had a lot of interesting things to say about hypnotism, a topic Robbins raised in his email message to me.
Hi Brian, I've been reading some of your recent postings. The following might be of interest to you to post as a new topic.
A lot of people who follow a certain belief (whether Radha Soami, Islam or any other) don't realize that they are simply brainwashed by that belief. Of course an outsider can see this clearly - but not the person 'in it.'
It's a bit like a live hypnosis show. The person hypnotized cannot see he is hypnotized - but the audience can.
Anyway - here's the posting. I just thought it would be interesting to see how people respond to it.
Regards, Osho Robbins
God Save Us From Religion
There are many religions and there are many who believe the tenets and beliefs of those religions.
Once they believe – they become brainwashed by the beliefs.
From that point onwards, they view everything through those beliefs and cannot see outside that religious box. They give away their ability to think freely because they create their own prison around themselves – unaware they are doing it by their own beliefs.
In effect they are wearing coloured glasses and those glasses colour their view of the world.
After a while they become 100% convinced that their version of the world IS the real world.
People who buy into a religious or spiritual system do not see themselves as brainwashed, but rather they feel they have found the truth and can even get quite evangelical about spreading the word.
They go on a mission to save the world – but they themselves are not saved (whatever ‘saved’ means!). If you take the example of Radha Soami followers: they will become ‘speakers, secretaries, authors, sevadars etc’ and gain prestige but they can’t really honestly say they have made any progress on a spiritual path, even though they might have become quite good at being a hypocrite.
The idea of an external GOD figure is a major part of the religious trap.
Someone asks Osho – “Do you consider yourself a God?” and he says “My God! There is no God! How can I be a God?”
Then he goes into how this deep seated belief arises.
This is a far cry from the Radha Soami belief that the guru is God in human form.
and also this one – there is no creator
All religions claim to KNOW and that is the trap. The follower believes and... game over.
The Buddha went in search of the truth. After decades of searching the conclusion he came to was that there is no external saviour (including himself), and certainly no external God.
So any religion that is based on a God figure is delusional, in the sense that fictional statements are made as if this fictional God is making a factual statement. Like commandments etc.
Islam, Radha Soami, Christianity, Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Scientology, are all just a few examples of these types of religions that claim to know the truth, but in reality just trap the believers into thinking they are privileged.
Here’s a video on Jehovah’s witnesses –
There is always something in the message of each religion that promises you something profound – like eternal life, Sach Khand, or being part of a privileged class.
Once you believe that promise – you are screwed, because all of the promises are false.
Then there is another type of ‘spiritual message’ which is profoundly different. However it can also become the same after a while.
The message I am referring to is one that frees the follower. This is what Osho was doing – his message was not to believe him – but to stand on your own feet.
Another similar movement was ‘est’ from the 70’s which later became Landmark.
Werner Erhard’s original ‘est’ was very different from what Landmark has now become.
The Buddha did not start Buddhism – and his purpose was not to create another trap.
Here’s a video of Werner Erhard creator of the original est training (trailer)
I have bought the whole video and it’s very interesting to watch how Werner created a training programme designed to free people of beliefs that took a lifetime to form. In two intense weekends he would free the participants from a lifetime of false beliefs.
Oh man .... another ratio wanting post by Brian and than you both Osho and Brian rape us with Osho Rajneesh come on are you too both serious. Osho where is your pretending video you have room full of people ....arent you liing to the people they will transform in one day?
This religious paranoia is set deeply into your cells.
And Osho again why do you pretend you hace room full of people on the video and why do you lie to people they will transform in one day when you even cannot fight your own obesity oh i know why...you need money. And Brian tell me do you think Lane is religious believer cause he meditates everydayfor4h? Why dont you become more professional in your criticism..why are you on school boy level? Why come and rape me with Osho ...why you criticise and than come with this guy Osho? Come on you can doit better. Stick to science so i can read your posts and stop rsping us with gurus of anykind. And how can one believe to Osho Robbins who pretends on his video he has room full of people and that they will transform in one day. That is also fundamental believing. And Osho show me how you transform your obesity in one day and than i will believe you. Otherwise do not force me in your personal belief. You seem like you have been brain washed . And guess what fuck religions of anykind... And now go and do 100push ups and stop fuckin force me with anykind of gurus.
Posted by: leri | January 25, 2016 at 12:53 AM
I’ve just been reading some of the past comments to several of Brian’s blogs and the types of criticism they elicit. I feel that any belief/story is valid – so long as it does not threaten or damage people’s lives. To this effect religion definitely can be guilty as ‘Brainwashed by religious beliefs’ shows, but of course any belief system which maintains its ‘rightness’ over other beliefs which can include science and often racial and nationalistic beliefs for example.
Live and let live – as long as it does not interfere and hurt others. To this effect I am again reminded by the comment made by Dustin Hoffman to his son in the film ‘Accidental Hero’.
“The thing about life is it gets weird. People are always talking about truth. Everybody always knows what the truth is, like it was toilet paper or something and they’ve got a supply of it the closet. But what you learn as you get older is that there is no truth, all there is is bullshit, layers of it, one bullshit on top of another and what you do in life like when you get older is, you pick the layer of bullshit you prefer – and that’s your bullshit so to speak.”
Posted by: Turan | January 25, 2016 at 05:07 AM
"If you live your whole life being good and serving the Lord and then discovered there is no God, what would you have lost? If you spend your whole life doing your own thing and serving self, and you ultimately discovered that God does exist, what would you have lost? Are you really so sure there is no God, that you are willing to risk your chance at eternal life?"
The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and nothing magically exploded for no reason creating everything and then the bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason whatsoever into self replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs makes perfect sense isn't it ???
Posted by: gossip | January 25, 2016 at 06:27 AM
Leri - you're an idiot
You have nothing useful or meaningful to write - so you write bullshit.
if you have an actual argument - make it - otherwise - it's pointless just showing everyone what an idiot you are.
Posted by: Observer1 | January 25, 2016 at 08:56 AM
Observer you would not dare to call me idiot in person. All this I wrote is true look at Oshos(not Rajneesh but poster here) video about how he can transform people in one day and watch how he pretends there is room full of people there. And than you think I will buy bullshit from someone who criticise others and sell me Rajneesh. Yeah right.
Observer you would not have the courage to call me idiot in person.
Posted by: leri | January 25, 2016 at 11:11 AM
Keri, yes - I would call you an idiot in person.
You obviously fancy yourself as some tough guy by using words like "dare"
You are a joker
I don't know much about OshoR or Rajneesh - but your comments are pointless
make a constructive comment if you can - otherwise - shut up.
Nobody here is interested in your stupid pointless opinions about another poster or Rajneesh
You use works like "rape" - when it's nothing of the sort.
You are obviously bitter for some reason and are using this platform to voice your frustrations. With all due respect you probably don't know the first thing about the people you are commenting about
Posted by: Observer1 | January 25, 2016 at 01:44 PM
Inasmuch as all comments are moderated, it seems obvious that Blogger Brian allows posters to make fools of themselves if they wish to. He might even get a kick out of it! I am basically an "erstwhile" poster, having been around this blog for the better part of 10 years and finding myself no longer having much to say. Still an avid fan, though, and never miss a post.
There has been a sea change in the character of the comments on Brian's blog. Some of them are downright hateful. I would direct the haters to Blogger Brian's "I Hate Church of the Churchless" blog. Stop boring sincere commenters with misspelling and poor grammar.
Posted by: Willie R. | January 25, 2016 at 07:58 PM
Willie R, I do moderate the comments. I deleted some profanity and extreme insults from a recent comment on this post, and I haven't approved several other comments that were just trash talk. You're right: civility has gone downhill all over the Internet, but this isn't anything new. It's a balancing act for me as moderator. I understand that people have strong feelings about certain subjects, and it's fine to express them.
However, as I often have said, it's one thing to say "You're an idiot!" and another thing to say "You're an idiot because..." Ideally the part after "because" would be based on sound arguments, and not just emotion. It also would be better to say "You're wrong because..."
Posted by: Brian Hines | January 25, 2016 at 08:07 PM
Gossip, you wrote "If you live your whole life being good and serving the Lord and then discovered there is no God, what would you have lost?”
Actually – quite a lot – your life. Let’s take the example of a Radha Soami follower (I could equally take a Christian or a Mormon*). A Radha soami follower is supposed to meditate for 2.5 hours a day. Many of them dedicate their whole life to RSSB. They do seva, or spend a lot of time in what they think is their future. After all, if they spend their time now in RSSB and the RSSB guru looks after them after death – it’s a good deal. It's a huge investment of time and effort.
The follower is convinced 100% it is the truth – that is why they follow and make the investment.
Here’s an example of someone who is so convinced that he is out to convert the world.
Take a look at this video.
David C Pack (The Restored church of God) claims that God’s existence can be scientifically proven
he says it is impossible for God not to exist – not improbable – but impossible
I haven’t watched it all – just intrigued by his conviction that he has 100% proof
Of course there cannot be 100% proof – but he is absolutely convinced that there is
Leri - if you have any more abusive comments to make - email me personally instead of
posting on here which is pointless.
Posted by: Osho Robbins | January 26, 2016 at 05:46 AM
Buddha did indeed create a religion that came to be known as Buddhism. A pretty good one at that. He went around teaching, gathering followers, creating sets of rules and disciplines and practices, ordaining monks, encouraging lay people to take up his way, etc. He had lots of detractors too, from religious and secular quarters.
Posted by: conradg | February 05, 2016 at 03:04 AM
Religion like Drugs ,Sex and Rock n Roll are peoples attempts to have "THE EXPERIENCE" For just a fraction of a second they do that. Yet the search goes on for what we know does exist. Everything we do here reminds us of our true home. It's embedded in us. Want proof? Why can we stare at a fire,or sunset forever? Because it reminds us of the other worlds. I describe "THE EXPERIENCE", as every step or movement is " Orgasmic". Like Faqir Chand describes a "joyous bubble of consciousness".That's all we want but when it happens is a mystery to me.
Posted by: Jim | February 10, 2016 at 02:32 PM