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November 28, 2015


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Brian, If Sean is correct, he would first need to be able to explain just what Consciousness is, and where it originates from. I think this Article is a good counter to Sean's and your skepticism.


Also, Sean's prognosis of there being no life after death and there being no mind outside the body would cancel every thing that Tom Campbell teaches, including his massive Book, .,,,,"My Big TOE"
Jim Sutherland

Jim, so what do you see as the evidence for life after death that outweighs the evidence against it?

Sure, anything is possible. But some things are more possible than others. Understanding possibilities is the way of science. Nothing is certain, but some things are more likely to be true than other things.

Since you seem to be more open to the possibility of life after death than I am (or Sean Carroll is), maybe you could explain your reasons for this.

I realize that lots of people have stuff on the Internet claiming that we live on after we die. But "stuff" isn't evidence, or reasonable arguments. What evidence is there, or reasonable arguments, for life after death?

Brian, of course, you ask a loaded question of me. Other then personal experience of the fact that, I am another reincarnated verson of an old soul that has lived many past lives. But when you don't even believe you are a soul, or have a mind that is not your brain, proves that you have never been successful in seperatng from your physical body as the Observer to look back at your self as Brian. I have, as many others have, who document their out of body travels all over the internet. You don't believe them, so why would you believe me? The fact that I am here now as Jim proves ( to me ) that there is life after death, because I am alive again right now.,after haven died physically, many times. I have already posted many examples here of people now, who clearly remember haven lived many past lives. One more example would not convince you, or be able to prove the reality of life after death. But if you ever are successful of a real OBE, and are able to see your self as Brian, you will now longer need to ask such unprovable questions.

Jim, I'm not doubting that you have had meaningful experiences that can't be adequately described to others. We all do. In fact, no personal experience really can be understood by anyone else.

But personal experiences often don't reflect some objective communal reality. Dreams and hallucinations, for instance. So unless we are supposed to believe that every personal experience represents some genuine objective reality, it is necessary to distinguish between personal and universal, subjective and objective.

That's all I was trying to do. I really didn't expect that you'd be able to provide evidence for life after death. If you could, you'd be world famous. I mainly was using my questions to point out the subjective personal nature of your seeming claim that humans live on after they die.

This is a belief that gives comfort to billions of people. But it isn't a proven fact.


Start here, Brain to challenge your skepticism.


Brian, Sorry the Link won't load. But this is the Book I tried to Link.


At least, read the Amazon reviews. It also is available on pdf free, but I can't find the Link, as I am not home.


appreciating the Brian- Jim dialogue , like for instance'

'' But personal experiences often don't reflect some objective communal reality. """

I guess it therefore I got the recommended OPEN letter in the local Daiky Newspaper undersigned in print on paper with the name "Maharaji"
because it was done with real atoms / matter , we all can read.

It helped / directed me at the time to make a decisive decision

We have three categories :
1- INTUITIONS , y'r right : they cannot be communicated !
2- INNER EXPERIENCES, Y'R RIGHT AGAIN, 100% non communicable

(impossible outside the quantum theories ! )

These serendipities apply to every human being
on a need to have them basis
The then impact is inversely proportional

I mean a person very close to the Source has many serendipities per day but is much less astonished than the cynicus, IQ fanatic who is really flabbergasted with one serendipity per 20 years able to change his life completely

A Holy Person , Completely One with the Source ( far above the quantum effects )
seeing all life unfolding as it is ment to go
He is just loving because of so much geniosity


This applies to all mankind and even the animal kingdom
and in all religions and all nON-religions
One could write a unique book around these 3 phenomena


I forwarded this Article to a friend of mine, a Harvard Grad. Physicist, asking him if he could debunk Sean's prognosis in the Article regarding his "proof" there is no life after death. Here was my friend's answer.
Until Sean can explain consciousness he has no argument.
However, there may be no life after the second death,
the one where you lose your memory to be reborn.

"My view is that consciousness comes from a soul that images everything outside of you to within you.
Scientifically the soul imaging process is explained by the T-duality of string theory and quantum field theory
where physics on a circle a distance r from the center of the soul is the same as the physics a distance 1/r inside the soul from its center.
But since I cannot say exactly what consciousness is, Ishwar says it is what is listening Astral Body Is a Capacity of Sense Perception | Ishwar Puri, I cannot prove that consciousness come from the T-duality.

Astral Body Is a Capacity of Sense Perception | Ishwar P...
View on www.youtube.com
Preview by Yahoo

So I cannot debunk Sean. But I will add that Lubos Motl, a former Harvard professor and a string theorist, thinks Sean is an asshole. But you should not believe either Sean or Lubos in my opinion."

This man, ( Allan Chronshaw ) claims to remember past lives all the way back to Atantes. But, he caught my personal interest claiming to be the present Reincarnation of James, the blood and flesh Brother of Jesus. I have had many debates with him regarding Sant Mat, and told him he keeps reincarnating because he is a prisoner of his mind, and can not rise above body consciousness as we are taught by Sant Mat Masters.

777, he needs some good Ole Sant Mat Teachings. Why don't you put your Sant Mat debating skills to better use than here, as Brian is already being pulled by Charan Singh's Buuldozer along with you and I. :-)


Great observation Jim
Until now , . . it's Mauj ; Wauw say the french :)

I started in this blog telling
at the time of Seth Shiv Dayal MaharaJI,
I was a big time murderer
then He learned me some compassion , the Key to everything

I feel fine at my age ( 80 almost ) that Delhi Satsangis who like
a modern coating on the old teachings
plan to open some of these discussions,
the IQ vs INTU / LOVE approach and the reasonability of God to do what She does,
in hindi and punjabi
So nice to hear

a rough start in english ( orthographically yet to correct )


Dear Brian
I hope you wont mind a few simple questions
You wrote a book "Gods Whisper, Creations Thunder" and, I strongly suspect that at the time of writing, you believed and agreed with all that you wrote. You were a seeker and then initiated. These are, I suspect, facts that you do not contest? We can conclude from your Church of the Churchless content that you have changed your position, your beliefs.
Q. Is it an impossibility that you could change your beliefs again, or do you now know that you have found Truth ? If so, what is different this time compared to last time when you chose to be initiated that makes you so confident that you have found Truth?

I ask you to look at your debunking of Thomas Cambell's My Big Toe: MBT is a trilogy, three lengthy volumes, with evidence based experiments, results, practical methods to conduct one's own experiments, written by a true scientist (you so often draw upon scientific methodology as 'gospel' yet, my understanding is that you yourself are not a published scientist?) and supported by other well known, highly respected scientists. Some have even put forward their own theories, not dissimilar, for example, Lanza and his Biocentricity.
I suggest that your attempt to put down MBT theory by drawing upon one scientist only, one that has been criticised by members of the scientific community, is, distinctly unscientific.
Q. Could it be possible that your desire to debunk 'at any cost' is because MBT presents evidence that does not fit your current belief system?

Many of the great scientists of the past, even Einstein, have reached the conclusion that there must be some kind of God. There are many quotes to this effect. Your conclusions are very different, yet you often quote these 'greats'
Q. Do you consider yourself as a greater scientist then they?
Q. Is your idea of the spirit of open enquiry one that selectively quotes from science to fit your belief?

Science of yesterday was different from the science of today. Yesterday science was above politics, economics, borders, scientists considered themselves uninfluenced by these petty restrictions, and explored reality for the benefit of mankind.
Today, science has changed, its research is driven by intentions of funders, sponsors, employers, politics and large corporates. In other words, science is driven by an economic and politic elite belief system.
When you refer to scientific method, I, as one reader, assumed you refer to the former vision of science, but I suspect you belong to the latter.

Lastly, I would like to remind you that science first and foremost is based upon data. But data is meaningless without interpretation. Information is 'data' plus 'story': where 'story' is the interpretation of the data, the human element. Story is where human intent is applied to the data to create information. Data is irrefutable, Story is subject to influence. I believe the sum content of Church of the Churchless clearly defines your 'influence' content and intent.

Of course, it is your blog, and it may or may not influence others, but in the off chance that it does, I do feel some honestly written statement to the effect that this represents your current belief system would be kind and acting responsibly. You may or may not be right, you thought you were right once before, you have completely changed, and you think your views are correct now, but please do not claim openness, that is a falsity.

I do hope you have the courage to publish

Tom Campbell makes sense imo in his theory that we are living in a digital information system. We are living in a kind of virtual reality, a data information system.

His theory ties in with the inner experiences that satsangis have (my thoughts) in that we can move from this reality to a non-physical reality through intent and having a different focus, and then connect with a different data stream (meditation perhaps is doing this?)

There are many interesting youtubes with him discussing his theories. I think its time to give up all our beliefs and change our thought patterns and as Tom says "take full responsibility for our present quality of consciousness". Interesting times indeed.

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