Here's a provocative piece by Osho Robbins, a frequent commenter on this blog who emailed it to me.
He writes about a recent experience where volunteers ("sevadars") acted in a high-handed manner at a large gathering of RSSB (Radha Soami Satsang Beas) followers -- an India-based group that I was a member of for many years.
What is seva? What is selfless service? Great questions.
What is seva in RSSB?
by Osho Robbins
This is an interesting question for an RSSB follower to contemplate.
It is just (a) following orders given from those above you?
Or is it (b) using your own discretion to be HELPFUL to another.
Conceptually the idea of seva is to be of service to others. In fact the word actually means service.
So you would think that if you are a ‘sevadar’ at some event, like a national satsang meeting, then the purpose of doing seva would be to make the life of those attending the event easier, not harder. I completely understand that the sevadars have a set of rules to adhere to.
However, is service simply the act of getting compliance? Or is it about helping things to go more smoothly?
At the end of the national satsang meeting, the logical thing to do would be to open many of the tent exits to allow the people to leave the the satsang easily. Why would you want them all to squeeze through a few exits? And if anyone tries to leave another way – stop them. How exactly is that considered to be seva?
I attended the national satsang at Haynes park in the UK a week ago.
At the end of the satsang, when they are announcing that nobody should leave yet, I stood up and made a sharp exit. Why? Because I don’t want to be in the stampede of people who are going to be getting up in about 30 seconds time.
So I exit the tent by the closest exit which is to my right. It turns out that this is only for those who want to use the toilets and washrooms. So when I try to exit towards the car parking area, I am stopped and told there is no exit this way. Well, I can clearly see there is an exit, but what they mean is that I am not allowed to exit this way.
Anyways I turn to go back towards the tent and then start to wonder what the purpose of these stupid rules is. So I walked straight past the sevadar who tried to stop me from taking the forbidden exit. He asked me to stop and I said I need to get back to my car as I am in a hurry. Well, he called for backup. I love these situations because it tests who the sevadars are and what they are all about.
The one sevadar starts to push me back as I am walking peacefully towards the car park area. I ask him calmly to stop pushing me otherwise I will sue him for assault. This seems to do the trick and he stops pushing me. Then five more highly trained sevadars turn up. They tell me to turn around and go the other way. One folds his hands saying it’s a humble request. So then I stopped to talk to them and this is what I said.
“Can anyone explain to me why I cannot exit this way?” Of course nobody had an answer other than “It’s not allowed, please go the long way around.”
So then I said, “I am going to turn around and go the long way around, so there’s no issue about that. However, if this is not an exit, can you tell me why it was not announced in the satsang hall. How was I supposed to know this is not an exit?”
And more than that, I said to them “What you are doing is not seva. You can call it by some other name, like following orders, but it is definitely not seva because seva should make life easier for the sangat, not harder. What is the logical reason for closing this exit? All I want to do is go back to my car and leave the site. Why exactly do I need to go back into the tent and exit that way? What is the purpose and who made this rule? And if you can’t tell me, then why are you blindly enforcing these rules that are pointless?”
This does raise a lot of questions. If seva is simply following orders, then who is making the rules? If you ask the Guru, he says he doesn’t get involved in these small details. In which case, someone else is making these rules. Why? And why is no other sevadar questioning them?
I do of course know the answer.
In RSSB, there is an hierarchy. The people at the top give orders to those below them and they in turn command those below them. To question the person above you is considered insubordination and nobody dares to do it. If they did, they would immediately be asked to leave their seva. So, out of fear of losing their seva everyone obeys. And they see other sevadars doing the same, so this becomes the natural thing to do.
So seva becomes OBEDIENCE. It becomes an unspoken rule that to question the person giving you an order is akin to questioning the guru, which of course is a big no-no.
Now this explains a lot. It explains why the sevadars have no individuality and are just order followers. They cannot think for themselves. They are zombies. This is a far cry from true spirituality. No sevadar is allowed to think or voice their opinion. A friend of mine once accompanied me to a seva day and observed that is was just like a concentration camp because everyone simply followed orders.
The statements I made to those sevadars fell on deaf ears.
I said to them that this is not seva because they are making my life difficult for no logical reason. Those sevadars are too far gone to even hear a thing I say. They are too conditioned to follow orders. As far as they are concerned they have just done their duty and will feel good about it.
The other big questions this raises is about MEANS and ENDS. The seva is meant to help in the spiritual progress of the disciple. However, I would suggest that it hinders. Why? Let’s see.
Firstly the sevadar becomes totally distracted from the whole reason why he first became initiated. He did not become initiated to BE A RADHA SOAMI. He took initiation on the basis that it might lead to spiritual enlightenment. He might traverse spiritual regions and reach the goal of sant mat.
Secondly, the act of doing seva creates ego in the sevadar, not humility. It also becomes like the rat race. Instead of chasing money the sevadar is chasing power and position. This is blatantly obvious as sevadars who do seva more regularly move up the chain of command. If they decide to give their seva less time they are warned that they will lose their position and will have to start at the bottom.
This also happened to me when I was a satsang speaker.
When the powers that be stopped me from doing satsang they said I could start again but would have to start at the bottom of the chain as a local speaker first and work my way up to national status. This of course is all nonsense and just to prove it I applied to be a speaker again. As soon as they realized it was me – they stopped me from being a local speaker because this is a power game.
My point is that this is a far cry from the original reason for getting initiation.
In the same national satsang – I went to the mike and made a statement. I said “Rabi ik gunjaldar, Rabi ik gurakh dhanda. Phid is diya paunda pagal ho jai banda” This translates as:
“God is a mysterious puzzle. Trying to solve it – you will go mad”
I then spoke about Kabir and said “Kabir says that I tried in every way but failed to find God. He says as long as I was looking for him, I did not find him. Then in the second stanza he says that in the end I still did not find him. What happened instead was that kabir disappeared and God appeared. Which means the meeting never happened.”
I simply made this statement and let the guru make his own comments. He said that he agreed. The ego has to disappear first. He said this happened through meditation.
Now Kabir is making a very important point in his verse.
He is saying that God will not become a decoration for your ego. You cannot hang God on your ego. You cannot claim to have found God, as your disappearance is the appearance of God. Meaning that YOU go then GOD comes. GOD already is and you are overshadowing him. You are like the wave in the ocean. You want to survive. You want the guru to come at your death and save you. Impossible.
No wave ever survives because the wave is unreal. Only the ocean survives because it is real. The waves come and go and the ocean remains. In the same way souls come and go. However we are told that we are a soul and the soul is eternal . Therefore we will survive death. That now becomes a worry because we want to make sure that we go to Sach Khand and the guru will come and save our soul.
However, Kabir is saying that there is no separate soul. You are not real. You just think you are real. Your ego created the illusion that there is a YOU. There is no You. There is only the ONENESS. You do not exist as a separate entity. If you did exist – then the ONENESS would be an illusion because there is more than one. ONENESS means that there is only the ONE and there is no other.
Paltu says “Paltu there is only the ONE there is no other.” The scripture cannot be any clearer, but the reader creates his own meaning to make it fit in with his own beliefs.
That is all we do in life. We make sure that we are right and we make everything fit.
A man phones his mother and says “Mum, I am a zombie”. She says “Son, you are not a zombie”.
He insists he is, so she asks him to call his father. “Dad, I’m a zombie”.
“Son, you are not a zombie” says his father. Again he insists he is. So his father says, “Do zombies bleed?” “No” says the son. “Great” says the father, “Now take a pin and stick it in your finger”.
A few minutes later, the son says “WOW – zombies DO bleed!”
Good article Osho.
The current guru is now using the new-age catch phrase "we are all one". I kinda get that we all come from the same source - whatever that is.
The ego bashing I am very familiar with in satsangi circles, and I'm so over their pretence of being humble and kind. None of us are ego-less. I think its probably impossible to exist on this planet without some kind of ego. Has anyone ever met someone who has no ego?
Satsangis have been taught that the soul will be born again into the physical reality and the life it will live will be in accordance with their deeds and behaviour in this current and past lives (karma).
Osho, what does the current Master say about the theory of reincarnation and karma? If we are all just going to merge with the "One" why would anyone need to give a sh*t about anything?
Posted by: Jen | August 29, 2015 at 03:47 PM
The idea of no-ego is mis-understood especially in RSSB circles.
In fact - if understood correctly - it would make a mockery of the whole teachings for this reason:
You cannot become ego-less by any form of 'doing' and that means seva or meditation. Any form of doing is going to enhance and strengthen the 'doer'
In fact you have to remove the 'doer'
Take the story of Janak. He has a dream in which he is a beggar and he asks "Which is the truth. Am I a king or a beggar?"
Ashtavakra is the only competent person who can answer him and his terms are simple. He says I can only give you the answer after you give me everything: mind body and wealth.
Janak agrees. Ashtavakra tells him to go sit where the shoes are and close his eyes. Then he asks him what is mind is focussed on. The king says he is thinking about the kingdom and about his queen. Ashtavakra says "You have no kingdom and you have no queen. They are now mine."
He then shows Janak what is the truth. He says "You are neither king nor beggar. Once you remove the "ME" that is possessing and owning everything - then you will realize that you are nothing and there is nothing to own"
Ego is not something you have to try to eliminate. That would be like trying to lift yourself by pulling at your own shoelaces.
Ego is the mistaken idea that there is a YOU in the first place. There is no YOU! and therefore nothing to try to lose. You cannot try to lose what is already not there. You simply have to see that you yourself created the notion of a ME in your childhood. You was not born with it. At a certain age you figured out at there is a YOU that is experiencing everything. That is the birth of the ego.
Posted by: OshoRobbins | August 29, 2015 at 07:40 PM
Osho this was really bold and mediocre explanation.. You just start to babble when you try to explain something ..yes to you it sounds new approach but you are only three or four seconds away of the satsangis you talk about. And Brian you really became dry and boring with your writing...this blog died long ago only dogma remains boring dogmatic blog ..i am going away of this sect.bye
Posted by: strudl | August 30, 2015 at 01:12 AM
""" Why? Because I don’t want to be in the stampede of people who are going to be getting up in about 30 seconds time. """
So you prepared this even months ago and this 'manoevre' might be the only reason you felt for attending
Of course the repetitive thoughts about this situ to come has prevented your ego to collect
the slightest benefit of being in the company of a Holy Saint !
Your friend who preferred visiting the whore-house that day and couldn't ejaculate there because he thought about the Master all the time
was much better of.
btw
The SERVICE is towards the satsang , more than towards satsangis
and less even than towards ego exploding , exploiting satsangis; . . . which are
still in panic-ly regret that their utterings were
replaced by more lovely ones.
I remember another satsangi jumping out of a window which was even less allowed of course, but his aim was the Master Car, not his own, to have more Darshan
and he got it.
which is not OK but in all respects a whole different ball game
Take care Osho, I mean it
How for heaven's sake you can interpretate Sant Mat so wronly
after ( you said ) something like 100 "satsangs"
As I see it , you spoiled 100 reunions with your "interpretations" at that time
and Gurinder was rather late to remove you
777
Posted by: 777 | August 30, 2015 at 03:51 AM
""" Why? Because I don’t want to be in the stampede of people who are going to be getting up in about 30 seconds time. """
"So you prepared this even months ago and this 'manoevre' might be the only reason you felt for attending " - 777
What are you talking about 777? What did I prepare months ago? There was no 'manoevre' except in your mind. I simply stated what happened when I tried to exit the tent.
"The SERVICE is towards the satsang , more than towards satsangis" - 777
Service towards the satsang? Never heard of such nonsense. 'Satsang' is an abstraction and does not exist as an entity - so it is actually impossible to do 'seva' towards 'satsang'
Not sure whene you're getting your information from - but service is of the master and of his sangat (in this case - the people attending the satsang - which includes me)
"How for heaven's sake you can interpretate Sant Mat so wrongly" - 777
I am not interpreting anything wrongly. That is just how you see it. How do you know what is right interpretation or 'wrong interpretation.' Besides - on the point I made at the satsang regarding kabir - Baba Gurinder agreed with me. So not sure what you're talking about
Posted by: OshoRobbins | August 30, 2015 at 10:48 AM
Strudl wrote:
this blog died long ago only dogma remains boring dogmatic blog ..i am going away of this sect.bye"
Are you kidding? This is not a sect. There are no teachings and it's not a religion. This is a blog where people can comment freely. Adn it's far from dead or boring.
What is boring, is the weekly satsang. When I looked around aven at the national satsang when the english speaker was speaking - masses of people were taking the opportunity to take forty winks. It's a great opportunity for most of them to catch up on their sleep as it is obviously boring because they have heard the same stories again and again.
Posted by: OshoRobbins | August 30, 2015 at 10:54 AM
Who gives a dam about weekly satsang and this blog is not so free as you think. It is so scientific wannabe and dry that needs to fed up on boring rssb stories. And Osho people do not transform in one day that is a lie ...first day one can do push ups but next day soreness comes in.. And then one have to repeat this over and over again so people transform with time and dedication and work.
I think you are very judgemental when you point finger towards satsangis which come in millions. So tell me how do you know for many millions heads how they think. You don't...
Posted by: strudl | August 30, 2015 at 12:06 PM
strudl,
its quite easy to know what the millions think. Its all brainwash, many of them were brought up as satsangis and continue to follow teachings with no regard to modern science. In fact I am aware that they ignore. Things like soul and five elements creating the body, all of it is unproven. I was very surprised when GSD said: "if you look at it scientifically, the creation is made of 5 elements..." (in resp to question about vegetarianism). It's archaic and I don't like how the younger generation is being coaxed into thinking that this a "scientific path". It's not. I'm not even sure why the centers are called Science of the Soul!
Also surprising that GSD didn't give a satsang! I thought only a perfect master should give satsang. And the QnA was hilarious, it was more personal opinion of GSD rather than divine spiritual wisdom. "I don't think anyone is a worthless soul", i think he forgot about all the souls satan asked for.
About the seva Osho, I couldn't agree with you more. Its all about ego, I absolutely abhorred that many of the "sevadars" were dressed up in their suits. No humility was showing. In fact, I am 96% sure that these people would NEVER volunteer to help anyone outside of satsang. They would never go to a homeless shelter and help out there. Nope it must be done with sangat cuz thats where we get spiritual medals!
Posted by: NewOne | August 30, 2015 at 01:19 PM
First of all newone I don't have any interest in any satsangis and any satsang and no you cannot know for millions you can't know even for one man what he is thinking that's a fact. And these statements are as deluded as the object you are talking about. Wakeup it's all in your head...
Posted by: strudl | August 30, 2015 at 02:48 PM
About the seva Osho, I couldn't agree with you more. Its all about ego, I absolutely abhorred that many of the "sevadars" were dressed up in their suits. No humility was showing. In fact, I am 96% sure that these people would NEVER volunteer to help anyone outside of satsang. They would never go to a homeless shelter and help out there. Nope it must be done with sangat cuz thats where we get spiritual medals!
Yes, even though GSD did say that you can do seva anywhere, you don't necessarily have to do seva at Haynes Park.
Volunteering at the Gurdwara, Church or in a chairty could be regarded as seva.
Also serving your parents, friends and helping the homeless is also seva.
He also said that seva does't burn karmas which is contrary to what many satsangis believe.
Posted by: Gaz | August 30, 2015 at 02:55 PM
Amen brother! I've known people at the top of the RSSB sevadar food chain and you better believe it's ego city up there. It's all about being special because you are closer to the master. The idea of selfless service is to surrender which in and of itself is supposed to good for destroying the ego, so I understand the mindless following of orders from that perspective. I also understand security involves a certain amount of control when you are dealing with that many people. However hierarchies, especially those led by dictators, create power trips and there is no bigger dictatorial hierarchy than RSSB. I've been involved in other spiritual guru led groups that were not quite so bad, but I think RSSB tends to be worse because it's already a very inflexible rule based dogmatic philosophy that's less about love and consciousness expansion and more about following rigid do's and don'ts.
Posted by: Skeptical | August 30, 2015 at 05:44 PM
strudl - you make some strange comments
(1) "Who gives a damn about weekly satsang" - well apparently you do and so do all the RSSB followers.
(2) I think you are very judgemental when you point finger towards satsangis which come in millions"
- I am calling a spade a spade. I have nothing against satsangis - even those who stopped me at the national satsang. I am simply making observations. Take from that whatever you want to take.
(3) "I don't have any interest in any satsangis and any satsang" - then why are you offended when someone makes a comment you don't agree with?
Posted by: OshoRobbins | August 31, 2015 at 01:50 AM
"Also surprising that GSD didn't give a satsang! I thought only a perfect master should give satsang." - NewOne
Originally only the master used to give satsang, or perhaps his most advanced disciples. However, in RSSB, satsang has become a formality. It is now simply a matter of explaning the concepts of sant mat or RSSB. It has nothing to do with spiritual progress.
This is a far cry from what sant mat used to be. I even remember when Charan Singh first suggested that 'live' satsangs be held instead of tapes. Gurchetan singh and others said "But how can we do satsang? We are not worthy to sit on your stage." Now there are hundreds of satsang speakers just in the UK.
The original idea of satsang was that it was the company of a perfect master. Anything he says is satsang. Anything he does is satsang. Satsang was not intellectual.
The idea of an unrealized person giving satsang makes a mockery and a joke of satsang. It would be like a man who claims state benefits giving lectures on how to be a billionaire.
The first question before you ever listen to any satsang speaker should be "Have you done what you are speaking about? or are you giving out theory from books and what you have heard."
In the very same RSSB satsangs they recite the famous story of Vivekananda asking people who gave talks "Have you seen God, or is this from a book" Only Rahakrishna replied "Yes - I have seen"
Why is this story repeated in RSSB satsangs if the advice is not followed? Does this not amount to hypocrisy? Saying one thing and doing another?
Most other sant mat organisation don't have followers conducting satsang (at most they might read from a book)
Posted by: OshoRobbins | August 31, 2015 at 02:11 AM
In all scriptures it clearly states one thing which no RSSB follower can doubt or question, and that is that the barrier between YOU and GOD is EGO.
What is ego?
There are two distinct parts to it.
(1) Haumi - means ME. The awareness of an ‘I’ or a separate self
(2) Ahankar – means EGOTISM. The idea of superiority.
The first biggest barrier is the EGOTISM. Without having this in check – the first is impossible to even be aware of.
In seva the EGOTISM is meant to be eliminated. Take the story of Kabir and The King of Bukhara. Kabir empties the dustbin over the king and he responds with anger. Later, after a further 6 years of service to Kabir, when Kabir does the same, there is no more anger. You could argue that by obeying orders the sevadars are eliminating their ego and that I by disobeying them that day was showing my ego. However, this is not the case because of one reason. The person they are obeying is not the master – but just another sevadar who himself is obeying another. No master is in charge of the situation. So it becomes an ego-trip because the people higher up can simply command those lower down. Doing satsang, especially, then becomes a huge ego-trip because you are sitting on the stage the master sits on and are in the same position, giving talks to a captive audience who will not question you.
So the EGOTISM gets wildly out of control. You start thinking that you are special and the organisation will not run without you. Next time you’re in satsang just watch how the top sevadars walk. Even their walk gives them away. They look down upon the sangat. They believe they know more than others which is why they are in a high position of seva.
The truth is they have lost their way. They are doing seva but they have lost sight of the goal and now they have no chance of achieving it because they are no longer striving. They have become distracted by external seva, and even that seva is fake because they are fake. Fake people can only perform fake seva.
If they were sincere disciples, they would focus on getting to Sach khand, or achieving the goal of the spiritual path, which is the reason they came to sant mat. All else is pointless and a distraction.
Humility is the result of overcoming the EGOTISM. That is where the path for the disciple begins.
The path has not even begun until this point. Why? Because the disciple thinks he knows everything and is super-wise. That has to drop before he can even listen to the master.
Otherwise all he is doing is listening to his own mind, because his own mind is creating the meanings. He selectively only hears what fits his own philosophy and disregards the rest.
A true master who is enlightened has to first get passed your prejudices, the conclusions that you have made. You think you know better and that is the barrier to true listening.
Only when you are able to listen – it is possible for a master to communicate with you. Only then is it possible to eliminate the HAUMI - the sense of ‘I’.
It is for this reason that he JAPJI sahib of the Sikhs has a whole series of stanzas on the ability to listen. RSSB followers think this is about listening to the shabd.
The master has to show you that you are an illusion. There is no YOU. Yet all you know is YOU. It is not that the YOU has to be eliminated or worked upon. The YOU is different from EGOTISM – in that no work is required to eliminate it. All that is required is a DEEP INSIGHT which leads to a REALIZATION. This does not require time or effort. It just requires receptivity and openness (and a realized person).
And yes, all of the above is my interpretation. You will not find it in any sant mat book because sant mat is a dualistic path and cannot lead to ONENESS.
Posted by: OshoRobbins | August 31, 2015 at 06:33 AM
This video on youtube puts a whole new slant on meditation and what it really means.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEO87hvh8kE
a very different perspective from the RSSB view
Posted by: OshoRobbins | August 31, 2015 at 06:57 AM
You are so right Osho! What do you think of a man who would abandon his wife on their wedding day or on vacation or leave his family when they need him for the primier ego seva of driving the master to or from the airport? Is that high level spiritual realization or a hyper ego trip? Perhaps I would be more understanding if it were Mick Jagger or Johhny Depp but I wouldn't dare call it seva.
Posted by: Skeptical | August 31, 2015 at 11:52 AM
skeptical,
that is just that man's priority in life. nothing right or wrong in it and nothing spiritual. Possibly an ego-trip if he thinks he is special because of his priority towards his master.
The idea of seva or service also exists in our day to day life and in business. The restaurant you go to for food is providing a service (and charging for it) and if that service is not of a high standard, you will not go back.
What is the point of doing seva in RSSB if the ego is only strengthened? I believe the only reason the majority of sevadars do the service is two-fold
(1) They believe if they spend their time doing seva, it is of spiritual benefit and the guru will reward them - so it's kind of an exchange - a business transaction if you will. There is a hidden agenda. I serve the guru and the guru will serve me.
(2) they have nothing better to do with their lives, especially those who are now retired. Seva seems to be a good way to spend the last days of your life.
Posted by: OshoRobbins | August 31, 2015 at 01:17 PM
If you ask the Guru, he says he doesn’t get involved in these small details. In which case, someone else is making these rules. Why? And why is no other sevadar questioning them? –Osho Robins
Hey Osho, a great article on truths of RSSB behaviors – it’s happening around the world I see! Who are making the rules I wonder? Are they spiritually adapt people with many decades of meditation? I do see Ego trippers! I can understand if it were for a health and safety in large crowds attending the paramount importance is for safety for the people or if GSD was to be walking that way and so the needs for rules and directions to be in places.
or if it where for someone that may get hurt or injured then the “stop” call was justified, if not it was he had the power from his military issued 2way radio. Since you saw an exit in and out to the seating area, then all is fair to follow your minds instinct to get to the car who wouldn’t.
I’ve just heard that the guru GSD of RSSB Beas is visiting Sydney and New Zealand Australia this weekend! I have been emailed this web site link from a follower, this link was only sent via email to people who were on their database only and or got to know by visiting their local satsang centres or friend.. No official web site information setup like here in Haynes Park! It doesn’t even hit any search engines, he tells me “it’s not to attract the general public to the venues it seems in case of overcrowding”.
https://gallery.mailchimp.com/e4221eca62f3404ca6c9faed9/files/2015_Tour_Leaflet.pdf
Loved to see if someone is Australia reads this blog and sees someone crosses the paths with sevadars at Sydney, or will they fix it since Osho Robins has brought it to everyone’s notice. In daily life there are ordinary people who lead normal lives are just as humble, kind in nature, help others in society who need support etc.
What is the point of doing seva in RSSB if the ego is only strengthened? –Oshorobbins
It’s to save money or make money from the people in this world mate! -Concentration camp -
RSSB Australia purchased land in Melbourne paid the deposit of over a $250m & lost the deposit and administrative costs of the application!!Because the local council & residents rejected the proposal of a building in the Green belt zone.
http://markbarnes.com.au/the-chirnside-park-mosque-myth/
Now they have purchase land next to a Hindu Temple in Melbourne – wont the Hindu’s of the temple be upset know RSSB philosophy is not to worship idols and gods! I am not sure of what price they purchased the land but this article says it’s over $2.2m A$.
http://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-land+development-vic-carrum+downs-501414479
Now I have heard they have purchase land next to a Hindu Temple in Melbourne.
http://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-land+development-vic-carrum+downs-501414479
But July 2015 newsletter says they paying A$5.8m – not sure if the real-estate website got the wrong figure or RSSB board members made a honest mistake. – I leave it to the readers to decide.
Critic's are good if it makes a difference, but I don't think it will with RSSB groups, I may be proved wrong.
Posted by: EnlightenMe | August 31, 2015 at 04:18 PM
Osho teasing rssb sevadars. Who teases gets it. Was that after you were pretending you were filming before studio audience or before?
You can really fake and pretend...bravo..great actor...
Posted by: lili | August 31, 2015 at 10:35 PM
Here's an interesting question to ponder over.
How many churches did Jesus build?
How many buddhist temples did the Buddha build?
How about Swami Ji, or Baba Jaimal Singh? How many satsang centres did they build?
No - it's not a zen koan. Just a question.
Swami Ji never build any - in fact he just had a small house from which he did his satsangs in Agra called Panni Galli. I've been there and now people have made it a place to bow down and worship at his feet - well - his feet aren't there - but his sandals are. When I asked someone why they bowed here he said it was because he got great spiritual benefit and felt it when he bowed. Each to his own.
Baba Jaimal Singh specifically told sawan not to build a proper ashram at beas because "you will get bound to this place" Jaimal never set down roots anywhere - all he had was a mud hut.
My point is that once the real spiritual values are lost - all that remains are empty shells and tall buildings, and people who worship blindly.
It won't be too long before RSSB create their own marriage ritual and have their marriages in their own centres because already sikhs are recognising that RSSB followers are not sikhs (since sikhism is already a religion) and they can see that RSSB followers only come to their gurdwaras when they want to get married.
RSSB is becoming more like a traditional religion. As more people follow it - more rules will be created.
They announce at the national satsang that only those over the age of 18 should ask a question. How ridiculous. So people below 18 don't have a brain? Why was one of the sikh gurus only 5 years old when he became the guru?
Quite often children of 10 and 12 ask questions far more profound than the elders who just want the master to give them grace and come at their death to save their soul.
RSSB is fast becoming a religion with blind followers. Lots of centres mean more sevadars to look after the centres and keep busy without thinking what the purpose of becoming a RSSB follower was in the first place.
Posted by: OshoRobbins | August 31, 2015 at 11:47 PM
I am a lover of shabd yoga but i don't attend satsangs and anything conected.. I hang with all people but I really love the meditation..it saved my life literally
Posted by: Stanislav Bezhvednjenjich | September 01, 2015 at 05:06 AM
Osho
Weniger wâre Mehr !
Did it ever occur to you that it"s All Love for This Holy Saint BabaJi
We love the Thristy Darshan, the sweet impressive flashes and internal Sounds coming from Him,
free you don't have to sit even
The equivalent The State of having NO THOUGHTS AT ALL but only LOVE
as if our brains were cleaned up as with a sponge
That Satsang is somewhat of the same by the effect of coming together in His Name.
And that explanations are heard only by those who not yet catch the real stuff ! ! !
777
Posted by: 777 | September 01, 2015 at 06:37 AM
Zombies yes that was coming to my mind too.
If life was neverending you could not bear it a philosopher said. the fact that we know we will die makes life bearable.
Now RS says you are going to reincarnate forever. Nobody can stand that idea from our point of view. So RS comes with the solution meditate and it will be at most three lives. Pfff that solves a problem. Did it? Was there a problem to start with?
Neverending life is unbearable but life ends for everyone.
Thank God.
Posted by: Nietzsche | September 01, 2015 at 01:59 PM
Stanislav Bezhvednjenjich,
you say the meditation saved your life - literally.
can you elaborate? How did meditation save your life. I would be very interested. thanks
"Did it ever occur to you that it's All Love for This Holy Saint BabaJi" - 777
No 777, it never did occur to me, because it's not true. Nobody loves Babaji. Controversial statement? perhaps. but true - yes.
I do agree that many people convince themselves that they love BabaJi. But no - it is pure deception.
The sangat appear to love BabaJi because he is the person who can give them what they want - liberation, salvation and to be saved at death.
If he could not do any of these - who would love him. No they love what he represents only.
Just as a Billionaire will have many friends who want to be close to him, not because they love him - but because they love money and he might give them some.
If today there was some scandal or negative story about BabaJi - those same people who today claim to love him would leave him.
This is nothing new. History is full of example after example. Anyone who claims to love BabaJi can see the benefit - and it doing it for benefit - the mind calculates and decides that this is a good deal. BabaJi is going to be very useful - so it would be a good idea to love him.
Posted by: OshoRobbins | September 01, 2015 at 04:21 PM
The disease is when you are convinced you know everything. Look at Osho blah blah all the time like he knows how others feel. Osho go to your room full of nobody and have a seminar.
Posted by: lili | September 01, 2015 at 10:17 PM
Nietzsche..Osho David Lane never stoped meditating does he look like zombie to you. I think he is one of the most open and honest people around.
Posted by: lili | September 01, 2015 at 10:25 PM
Osho I could tell you that only in person so you are welcomed at my house.
But question is are those sewadars that you teased really doing Surat shabd practice or Sant mat practice. We mix too much of social events and behaviour with actual focused and concentrational practice. It is not how many hours you spent in practice but what level of concentration you get makes you acceptive. Osho now your oneness is booklearned but when you'll experience real state you will find it quite different than you imagine it right now.
Look at Maharshi Mehi who came together withsant mat and advaita. Love!
Mehi...
Propounding the philosophy of Sant Mat and Advaita Vedanta His main motto: "The utmost & the most solemn goal of human birth is to attain, forsaking all worldly desires, complete liberation of all transmigration. The purpose of Santmat is to provide a system which fulfills the desire of attaining absolute Peace or total liberation."
Posted by: Stanislav Bezhvednjenjich | September 02, 2015 at 01:07 AM
lili,
You are deluded. When did I say I know everything? And when did I claim to
know how anyone else feels? I have enough problems knowing how I feel!
And that video on youtube is in front of a camera. When did I claim to have a studio audience? You make up your own conclusions in your head and think they are real. I guess you do the same when listening to your guru speaking. You hear what you want to hear.
'Meditation' means different things to different people. For example what OSHO calls meditation is not the same as repeating a few 'holy' names. His idea of meditation is awareness.
You also wrote "Osho teasing rssb sevadars. Who teases gets it."
What kind of nonsense is this? what will I get? Not sure what the 'it' is.
If I am in trouble for breaking the RSSB rules, it doesn't matter to me because I am not an RSSB follower and am not waiting for some master to come at my death to save me.
However, you have broken the rules of your own beloved BabaJi by commenting on here which is specifically forbidden for all disciples. So aren't you going to 'get it' or are there special rules for you?
Firstly I wasn't teasing anyone - but just trying to get back to my car. It was the sevadars that created the issue. All I was doing was peacefully making my way to my car. If they had let me pass - nothing would have happened.
All I am asking is how is it seva to make me walk the long way around, when there is no logical reason for it? If there is a reason - tell me. BabaJi had long departed so they could not claim I was chasing him. There was nothing there that was out of bounds.
I was simply walking beside the tent. All this does it keep the sevadars in a job so they can feel they have accomplished something, when in fact all they have done is make my journey back to my car 10 minutes longer. How can this be considered service?
Imagine going to a Gurdwara and while leaving they tell you to go around the block to get to your car. When you ask them why - they say the road is closed - when it isn't. You would think they were a little crazy.
Posted by: OshoRobbins | September 02, 2015 at 01:41 AM
David Lane is not a part of the sick sewa organisation around the filthy rich masters of deception with their sales pitches. I wonder if he meditates to be a wave in a different ocean? Perhaps he meditates because ones centuries ago there was someone that knew the sound and had a way. After him the masters apeared like salesman looking for free sewadars and slaves. We woul have to ask David Lane. In my opinion it all started nice but became a zombie parc.
Posted by: Nietzsche | September 02, 2015 at 01:43 AM
Bitter Osho hopes :
""" If today there was some scandal or negative story about BabaJi - those same people who today claim to love him would leave him. """
This feels like hate
What a God given blessing for the UK Sangat that you were removed from the microphone "
You heve not the slightest idea about Love
and The Look of Love !
Don”t ever go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it1NaXrIN9I
777
Posted by: 777 | September 02, 2015 at 04:25 AM
Perhaps David Lane would say that the masters should stop pretending to be more than they are. They are just sewadars and something else is helping the students even if it looks like the master. Perhaps even it is good for some time for a student to go through rehab with the masters but in time you should leave the sewadar indoctrination and become an independent seeker of the shabd. Stay to long and you might very well become a victim of mental abuse guild and general retardation.
Posted by: Nietzsche | September 02, 2015 at 10:05 AM
Osho quote
lili, You are delude
Lili the deluded:...ah same as everytime... Insulting by spiritual people
Quote Osho What kind of nonsense is this? what will I get? Not sure what the 'it' is. .
Lili da deluded:
Oh dear little indian friend don't be scared..i just meant attention..nothing to be afraid from my side...i wish well for you....i am big Gama like guy with melting heart...i could kiss you before bed
Quote Osho...However, you have broken the rules of your own beloved BabaJi by commenting on here -
....i don't have a guru...i don't have beloved baba ji.although it sounds nice maybe I will buy one ..one day
Nighty nighty Osho kiss kiss sleep well
Posted by: lili | September 02, 2015 at 01:31 PM
Ay ay Nietzsche you were deeply influenced by the great internet scammer tAo... I think you could not do this meditation and you started to search faults and excuses and you found them.
Nobody is zombie unless you feel so.
But you are not zombie also.I think you just lack of confidence . I will not say do meditation or anything it is your beautiful life but one thing I say. Don't believe guys like tAo he will use weaker persons for his twisted aims cause he is robust. Please respect yourself and don't think people are zombies cause you never know maybe one day you will meet greatest friend amongst them. Love
P.S. Nietzsche no ...David L. does exactly the same Surat shabd yoga of rssb and even more today..and he still deeply loves his guru..and he is not zombie..peace
Posted by: lili | September 02, 2015 at 01:50 PM
Pretending to be humble is worse than being egotistical. Better to be whatever we are than being fake. Forgiveness helps, otherwise we spend our lives judging others when really we are no better. Letting go of Sant Mat and the old behavioural habits as a satsangi is quite an enlightening experience. We are just creating our own reality, each of us and maybe one day we will wake up or maybe not.
Posted by: Jen | September 02, 2015 at 03:47 PM
777,
what makes you think I am bitter? And there is no wishful thinking, I would not wish that at all. And I definately don't hate GSD. In fact I think he's quite cool at times.
I simply made a statement that you didn't like. Many claimed to have loved Sant Thakur Singh ( a Kirpal successor in Delhi) until the scandal, then those same people left him.
What microphone was I removed from?
Posted by: OshoRobbins | September 02, 2015 at 04:04 PM
Lili
http://www.integralworld.net/lane11.html
Thanks for comparing with tAo. Truth apears in more people over time.
I recall Lane writing on Fakhir Chand who said that Great Master should stop lying.
Lane loves his guru Charan but he knows him to be imperfect. In time he will realise that the whole religion including the diet is fake and dangerous because of the one sidedness. It is good to have a picture of the shabd that you love do not confuse it with the person. if it is not the person should gou pag to much atention to what they say?
You may call me evil for using my own mind to guide me. I could call you evil for being under a spell. I think you will need this for a while and than take your own responsebilities again.
I did not find meditation to difficult I found the sewadars and the mind controll to difficult and against my own integrity as a human being. I can not use that system on others too.
The shabd will protect you you know that and no one owns the shabd allthough the masters sell it.
Posted by: Nietzsche | September 02, 2015 at 09:53 PM
One of the problems when you let go of your individual thinking and judging is that your judging of good and bad will be gone and you will feel a good person by following some rules that make you a 'satsangi'. That is very dangerous as whe the whole group is doing things that affect others you are not capable of stopping it in yourself. You need to train your own sensitivity to good and bad. It does not help if others award you for being right and chosen because you are a vegetarian. You need to feel what you think is right and act acording to that. Now that is not something they sell you ;) it is very dangerous to them.
Posted by: Nietzsche | September 02, 2015 at 10:07 PM
Quote Nietzche
Thanks for comparing with tAo.
Lili:
I did not compare you. Where do you get the idea. I read all posts here and many time you felt under his lies..don't you know his a proven scammer?
Quote Nietzsche
You may call me evil for using my own mind to guide me.
Lili: I didn't call you evil and would never call you that...do you think someone could actually like you...
Quote Nietzsche
I could call you evil for being under a spell
Lili: I am under no spell I said I am under no guru or path. Why do you constantly think of evil
Quote Nietzsche
I recall Lane writing on Fakhir Chand who said that Great Master should stop lying.
Lili:
Yes i read this Chand but then he also said "obey your master till every word" now you get a confusion right? And Chand beside few twists has totally same advices and sentences like in your rssb books.
Quote Nietzsche
and the mind controll to difficult and against my own integrity as a human being. I can not use that system on others too.
Lili: Nietzsche no one can control you ..you are under no control..who forced you to think like that..tAo maybe? Nietzsche you are great guy I read many if not all posts here and you are great guy...don't be scared and paranoid of anything no one has or ever had you no rssb no guru no one..
Lili:
And why would you use system on others....you just have system to concentrate to the point where you hear the phenomena of sound and light that is all.simple...everything else (like explanations,experiences,social behavior, personal interpretations...) just grew around through history . I am discoverer anthropologist and psychiatrist and strong man and I find thus same issues in all groups(sports,religion,music,..) around the world.
Drop negativity and live yourself the right way and be happy.love
Posted by: lili | September 02, 2015 at 11:38 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SwXgHmTOfXs
Osho why can't you just say you tried to look everywhere in the room like you have a room full of people so you could have a nice seminar video? It is obvious you are doing that. Ey ey ey people are doing everything these days. And many people are victims and we should help them not attack them that they have a disease and make money from that.
Posted by: lili | September 02, 2015 at 11:46 PM
There is nothing else than :
https://www.youtu=it1NaXrIN9Ibe.com/watch?v
777
Posted by: 777 | September 03, 2015 at 03:13 AM
So Lili is a man pretending to be a woman. He has no negativity he says. He even says others to drop negatvity. He says tAo is a spammer but spams himself. He tries to confuse just like the masters. Oh and RSSB is just like any group downplaying he rigorous mindcontroll that many outsiders witness in the so called positive satsangi's.
Posted by: Nietzsche | September 03, 2015 at 04:54 AM
Please don't laugh at me lili is a man name in our country . And I didn't find out tAo Manjit found him on many lies and message deleting.
Confusing ? Negativity? I didn't said or done anything like that.
Posted by: lili | September 03, 2015 at 08:43 AM
And actually I said I like you don't you read posts where did I say about negativity
Posted by: lili | September 03, 2015 at 08:46 AM
Dear EnlightenMe,
Thank you so much for posting the tourleaflet !
I am Dutch, living in France and due to your link Icould send this leaflet to a german friend living in Australia, just in time !!
Wow,life is wonderful !
Posted by: Happy TiGer | September 04, 2015 at 01:38 PM
Last thing from me.
We should not feel righteous because of a certain way of eating or dressing or because we follow dertain rules but because we have righteous thaughts and acts.
I ate meat the other day not because I liked it but as an experiment. I found out that I no longer have a reason to look down on other people and you know other people become a little more like me and I do not feel like judging anymore. Try the experiment! People are beautifull all of them in a way.
Posted by: Nietzsche | September 04, 2015 at 07:16 PM
I ate meat the other day not because I liked it but as an experiment. I found out that I no longer have a reason to look down on other people and you know other people become a little more like me and I do not feel like judging anymore. Try the experiment! People are beautifull all of them in a way.
What happened when you ate meat? Did anything bad happen? I don't eat meat because i think something bad might happen to me, i might incur bad karma. I still hold this assumption even though i am no longer an RS.
You are right about people being beautiful, we have to love people first before we can love God.
I have noticed when i think well of others have love for them as well i feel peaceful, people smile at me in the street. It's like my love for people radiates outside.
Never think ill of anyone, wish the best for everyone, we are all one.
Posted by: Gaz | September 05, 2015 at 02:02 PM
Here is my longish response to why I still meditate....
https://sites.google.com/site/whyimeditate/
Posted by: david lane | September 05, 2015 at 02:36 PM
David wrote on his page :
“”” hagiographical rendition) St. John Bosco went to Church and offered his lunch (or was it an apple?) to a statue of the Virgin Mary and it came alive and took it. “””"
Funny you r telling this David,
I live for 40 years now in this house where Don Bosco came daily around 1889,
The house is neighboring an Intern-School for 300 boys He founded then.
As many, . . I came also on the Path through Yogananda ; very impressed by his master Sri Yuteswar and specially by his description of the vertical heavens system, up to the second of the seven heavens
, . . and so I wanted to join the Yogananda Self Realization Fellowship.
At my first visit
to them in their ’temple’in Zeist , the representative Piet Romijn a Doctor in Psychology refused us ( my fiancé & me )
He offered tea and cookies, showed his bees, and next gave us the address of Krisnamurtie’s long time ex secretary, a Lady Doctor in Sankrit,
who was initiated by Maharaji .
But I described the wonderful circumstances including the actual complete amnesia of this representative Piet , in this blog already years ago.
An impossibility again , while nobody ever can forget the beauty of my wife, then fiancé .
777
Posted by: 777 | September 05, 2015 at 06:38 PM
It seems that many people who enjoy meditation and the experiences and visions they have within their minds have also experienced taking mind-altering drugs. I think probably certain parts of the brain have been triggered or opened or become more sensitive from taking drugs.
I now think that all this exciting phenomena (I used to be quite impressed with) are probably just brain hallucinations.
Posted by: Jen | September 05, 2015 at 11:21 PM
Ditto Jen, it can all be explained biologically. Numbing of the feet, body, happens regardless of meditating whilst sitting for long periods of time. Anything you "see inside" is just your brain's activity. Why would you want to make it more complex and give neuron firings a "divine cause"?
Posted by: NewOne | September 06, 2015 at 01:02 AM
Hey mr Lane what part of the discussion you mention was intense to you?
Posted by: rhubarbara | September 06, 2015 at 02:29 AM
Ok point taken. A master is not perfect. Al Capone was not perfect either. Is there a difference between a master and Al Capone? Il capo di tutti capi ;)
Posted by: Nietzsche | September 06, 2015 at 02:58 AM
When a master kills a wasp's nest without second thought he falls into the Capone category for me. Ok I could kill a wasp's nest but I would feel very bad about it and search for other solutions. Gurinder is reported to not have that character trait. Just how imperfect can a master be? Can he be without to much compassion? Makes him a good business man but a master?
Posted by: Nietzsche | September 06, 2015 at 03:50 AM
Dear David
I'm at the end of your autobiography and can tell you what's the beginning and the end of succeeded meditation
and why you still on hold.
It's LOVE
When Jagat Ji says not to resist the suction, it can only be done by LOVE
You Yourself are the only who can discern if LOVE ever played a role in your life.
You didn't mention the word even , like Ramana never did , - I might have missed it - I ‘v read the same books as you did.
Don't worry :
Love is a gift ; like any puber knows one can hardly decide. - You are initiated. LOVE will come.
A great help would be to throw away that hyper sleep or half-sleep inviting chair and sit on the ground with a vertebrae straight, straight and very straight , physically reaching to the ceiling
Or buy that very old , very a creaky wicker chair
next avoiding all possible sounds produced by the chair
and then cry for LOVE to the Beloved Satguru and when it's honest and devoid of self-importance
you will join the great vertical stream of the ( what catholics 'r not understanding ) Saints , - one being sucked in the former one - going up through those “mind-regions" up to the center of LOVE which is ever accumulating.
This RSSB path is great joy, not just comfort, , in and outside the sittings. You can be in that state ALL THE TIME , even while paying the casher in the mall . . .
Radha Soami
777
PS
Ego will never be deleted by ego
Love can, because when it increases , . . there is no time left
Posted by: 777 | September 06, 2015 at 04:53 AM
Would you trust a physician when he or she shows more interest in your money than in you. Would you trust your body to him?
Would you trust your soul to a 'master' that is not interested in the life of wasp's that is not emphatic according to people that lived close to him?
Think twice ;)
Posted by: Nietzsche | September 06, 2015 at 09:35 AM
Numbing of the feet, body, happens regardless of meditating whilst sitting for long periods of time.........
It is different kind of numbness my legs don't hurt after 4 hours of meditation but of few hours of sitting they hurt.
Posted by: really nasty smell behind ears...like cheese like | September 06, 2015 at 11:11 AM
I haven't read all the comments so forgive me if I repeat what anyone else has already said.
But it is mentioned in this article that the Guru supposedly doesn't get involved in all the small details of satsangs etc. This seems to be a Radha Soami claim of convenience, because at other times, they speak about how the Guru is so perfect and involved that he even comes to the US centers to make decisions about tiny things such as which door handles will be used and other minor details.
I don't say this in disagreement with Osho Robbins, but as an observation I've made about claims being made and changed about the Guru's character when it suits the context and will make him sound better.
Posted by: Jesse | October 05, 2015 at 10:30 AM
Another thing I feel like mentioning is that some of the defensive pro-RS comments come across as downright creepy.
It's not the belief or hope that is creepy, it is the arrogance to think that because of immersion in a particular hagiographical history(one out of many which are almost identical i might add) you think you know the nature of God, the universe, who will and will not make it to "heaven" and everything other supposed spiritual mystery.
I won't name names, but "you" would do well to exercise a little agnosticism in my opinion. If you're wrong about what you think you know, it'll probably be really disappointing after you die.
Posted by: Jesse | October 05, 2015 at 10:37 AM
What is seva in the RSSB organization?
¿Mandar Gilipollas a Trabajar Gratis?
Posted by: Juan | October 05, 2015 at 12:10 PM
Hi Brian,
I read your views about the sewa during the exits from satsangs and sevadars way of handling exits and entry points. I too get the same sometimes.
Actually, at every satsang, lot of people come and often their number is unknown in advance. So the organization follows the Croud-management policies which sometimes focuses on maintaining the flow of people coming out and going into the hall for satsang. Further each of the sevadar is given only a part of instructions as per the full-flown "crowd management policy" in which each follows the instructions so that collectively they are able to avoid any mis-happening to happen due to crowd movement.
In my view, such avoidance of accidents is also "sewa" as it saves people from getting hurt physically.
Sometimes, we miss to see the whole picture and that's where we becoming wrong otherwise everyone on the planet is The Most intelligent person.
Thanks
Take care.
Posted by: Vijender Singh | October 07, 2015 at 05:28 AM
Jesse:
you wrote this observation:
"claims being made and changed about the Guru's character when it suits the context and will make him sound better."
I have noticed this also. Both ways. People who have a vested interest in continuing to believe in the PLM-- they gerrymander the biography to make him seem just splendid and offer fancy tales of wonder. Those people who have a vested interest in concluding he is -- well -- less than perfect gerrymander the bio too, featuring less favorable accounts and negative gossip, and present negative conclusions. Both, in my estimation are cause to sigh heavily and shake my head. And the ones who proffer negative conclusions are as dishonest, from time to time, with themselves (motives) as the ones who sing the praises. Both sides get pretty hot under the collar when you call them on their horse manure.
Posted by: Doodles | October 08, 2015 at 01:27 PM
Jesse and Doodles, we are all arrogant at times. We all have an ego. None of us have all the answers. Do you even see your own arrogance in your comments?
We are all here on this blog just stating our opinions, which is a huge help in many respects, (thanks Brian).
Posted by: Jen | October 08, 2015 at 02:40 PM
Jen,
Arrogance and ego are just descriptions of human character. Lies and justifications of the absurd on the other hand are actions. It doesn't interest me to discuss the abstract concept of ego in a vacuum.
I would never claim that i wasn't arrogant,nor would i accept that arrogance is in itself a bad thing. My arrogance doesn't lead me to steal millions of dollars from people nor to ask others to call me the creator of the universe.
If you can't see a difference in these things, that's your issue. Not mine.
Jesse
Posted by: Jesse | October 09, 2015 at 05:08 PM
Doodles,
In my opinion,it's much more reasonable to have a strong argument against the guru than a defense of him.
There is exactly zero evidence to support the gurus amazing holiness,and some evidence to support the position that he is a charlatan.
Jesse
Posted by: Jesse | October 09, 2015 at 05:13 PM
verinder singh wrote:
"Actually, at every satsang, lot of people come and often their number is unknown in advance. So the organization follows the Croud-management policies which sometimes focuses on maintaining the flow of people coming out and going into the hall for satsang."
There's no crowd management going on there. If anything it's crowd mis-management.
If you take a close look at what is actually happening is that sevadars are standing around saying - "please stay left or right of this imaginary line."
How does that help anything? And like I said in the main article - why not open all the exits and let people exit without having to squeeze through a few bottleneck exits.
Also - what is the logic and benefit of stopping me from exiting the way I was exiting?
What I am saying is that it is pointless seva to stop be from exiting the way I was going. It was not causing any harm or inconvenience to anyone.
Who makes these silly rules? That is really the question. And why do all the other sevadars simply implement them without asking the purpose?
Most likely the reason for placing sevadars at the rear exit where I was exiting was so that nobody sneaks out that way and meets the guru. However the guru was long gone, so now there was no reason to continue with that rule.
As fas as I can see - seva is just an excuse to boss people around for kicks. It feeds the ego of the sevadars who get a double benefit because they feel they are doing something useful for the guru.
It's just a massive ego-trip, not seva. If the sevadars had a brain - they would simply stop doing this seva and tell the people at the top of the organisation to do their own bossing around. Instead people queue up to do seva thinking it has some huge spiritual benefit
Posted by: OshoRobbins | October 15, 2015 at 04:38 AM
You can go to your guru Osho Rajneesh which is your latest hot bun...and have a nice gang bang
Posted by: smellodion | October 15, 2015 at 10:18 AM
When Gurinder Singh came to Fayetteville, NC. His satsang was pretty boring. He is not a great speaker. He did satsang for about 10 to 15 minutes and then we had Q&A. Gurinder Singh doesn't take the Q&A part to seriously he just jokes around a lot and just makes people laugh. In one question he made of the gay people, saying hello to the tutti frutti people something like that. He did offend some people. Gurinder Singh did apologize to the Fayetteville Center.
Posted by: Jimmy Singh | November 07, 2015 at 08:15 PM
When Gurinder Singh came to Fayetteville, NC. His satsang was pretty boring. He is not a great speaker. He did satsang for about 10 to 15 minutes and then we had Q&A. Gurinder Singh doesn't take the Q&A part to seriously he just jokes around a lot and just makes people laugh. In one question he made fun of the gay people, saying hello to the tutti frutti people something like that. He did offend some people. Gurinder Singh did apologize to the Fayetteville Center. Gurinder Singh is a fake. Someone needs to start recording his satsangs.
Posted by: Jimmy Singh | November 07, 2015 at 09:04 PM
I remember how the older satsangs (before GSD) were much more "spiritual". They'd talk about the lives we had, how many souls couldn't go back, how the different ages revolve around each, the five elements etc. In the western satsangs, these things are never mentioned. It's all just the same feel-good, psuedo-bs being regurgitated by every speaker (gsd barely does satsang in the west). They all take some old satsang, translate to english, mix it up and say it like they know it.
Are you allowed to be gay in the path? It was celibate or hetero. But I'm pretty sure that's one comma that has to be changed in the teachings ;)
Posted by: Neon | November 08, 2015 at 02:11 AM
Brian
Why do you still discuss things that you dont like about spiritual organisation ? People don't discuss about their ex love .
Posted by: gossip | November 08, 2015 at 10:57 PM
Brian can comment on anything he wants to - BECAUSE HE CAN. There's no argument to it.
Posted by: david r | November 09, 2015 at 07:33 AM
Jimmy Singh, you said " Gurinder Singh came to Fayetteville, NC. His satsang was pretty boring....he just jokes around a lot and just makes people laugh - I agree with you there! This was the same in Sydney 2015 was my experience, he was only there for 2 hrs each day and had around 12 people following him into the hall, don't know who they were.
They book the hall for 3 days of payments, you would expect him to stay at least 8 hours with his flock. If the hall has been booked and chairs, TV screens and Stage has been setup for the weekend event wouldn't you?
Jimmy I would like to hear more facts, about the q & A on offend some people. Gurinder Singh did apologize to the Fayetteville Center.
Posted by: enlighten one | November 13, 2015 at 10:26 PM
His satsang was "pretty boring"? A lot of people do not care if he talks at all. They are there for his darshan. The Q and A part is longer, and I believe of more value than another Sant Mat lecture, i.e., beating a dead horse.
And given the guru's health issues it is surprising to me he went to Sydney at all.
Agree. He can seem a bit
glib when not on his own turf. His Sunday satsangs at the Dera though? They are very memorable. Maybe he is pleasant rather than profound in the Western theater because we take offense so easily.
Posted by: L. McGinnis | November 14, 2015 at 01:10 PM
About the comments made by Gurinder Singh. A lot of people were just laughing. I don't remember the question. He was just joking around to much like he always does. Eventually your going make mistakes. I heard he apologized from someone who does attend satsangs on Sundays and does a lot of seva at the Fayetteville Center. Mistakes sometime do happen and I'm glad he apologized.
I am an Ex-Satsangi. I usually attend these gatherings to just meetup with friends who travel from all over the US. I got really bored with Sunday satsangs. They kept repeating the same stuff over and over. The satsangs were just so boring. They would not take topics into deeper levels. The people at the Fayetteville Center are not very friendly people. Most of them have really high egos. So I left this path a few of years ago.
There is one rich family that gave this land to RS to build the Center here. When Gurinder Singh comes to NC. He spends most of his time with this family and other rich people. I never saw him hanging out with the average Joe. The rich keep the lights on and pay the bills for the Center. What can an average person offer to Gurinder Singh NOTHING, Just free labor which is called Seva.
I just wish the RS path was more serious in producing high quality intelligent Satsangis who followed just the basic teachings of being a good human being instead of high quantity of mindless, confused, lost people. I think that's why Gurinder Singh is not serious. He just jokes around a lot. He wants to keep the satsangis dumbed down enough so the RS empire can keep growing.
Posted by: Jimmy Singh | November 14, 2015 at 03:56 PM
Well Jimmy Singh, if they are "mindless, confused, and lost" he does not need to dumb them down as they are already there.
It all boils down to who or what is the guru? Does anybody know? One wants a clear answer, but, alas, it is generally quite saturated in East Indian guru lore,and Bhakti double-speak. It IS, after all, in many respects a full-on Indian religion. Look at the congregation in NC or Petaluma! Do you see a preponderance of white faces, or African American faces? No. And my guess is that at some point you will see none.
There are plenty of high quality Satsangis. They are all Indian though. They understand guru Bhakti things. It is THEIR culture. No ours. Period. You want our culture? Go see Benny Hinn or the Pope. (joke)
Posted by: L. McGinnis | November 14, 2015 at 04:46 PM
Hi Jimmy Singh, Thanks for your comments as evidence “I don't remember the question” you said!
I bet there would have been 100’s of people in this category! Or just went as an entertainment show.
Hi L.McGinnis, “he does not need to dumb them down as they are already there”. I am one of them!
Your observations of RS Beas satsangis of today in this organisation, I too concur are similar to Sydney centre why? Because I have asked several people after these events of Baba Ji attendance, to what was said, and what they will now achieve through this get-together, I never get a response from the sevadar!
They love walking around with Two Way Radio’s like guards and telling people where and how to park their cars.
This is as a seeker who’s asking, probing and looking for signs if it’s the correct path to go within.
I was once informed the land purchased in Sydney was of one person’s donating the land, amazing how similar to Fayetteville Center!
Have you ever reflected back a few weeks later or months from “boring satsang’s from the speakers” give you, how much is remembered of what was said?
You’re not allowed to write anything down or asks questions from the speakers because they leave the hall quickly I am sure they have ego of being on stage and feel they are better off that others. I always wonder have they progressed on the inner stages. Because they seem to just read text book material, or memorized long passages, some of the speakers give wrong translations when comparing with other speakers what they have said is what I have found.
I am sure this blog which Brian has setup from his vast experience in life and interactions with Gurus and people, just like David Lane, will and does give seekers and the like to make their own decisions and to the practical workings of this type of meditation, and if achievable within a period of time?
My thoughts have always been will the Guru attend at the time of death.. OH I never hear this mentioned to new seekers any more, since we see no evidence of older satsangies when pass away from this world they generally die in the same manner as others do.
Posted by: enlighten one | November 15, 2015 at 03:31 AM
enlighten one, you're hitting the nail right on the head. Things like master coming at death, yea we never hear that these days. Neither the 10% souls destined (to go back?) nor the world made of 5 elements, etc. etc.
So much has changed, they're trying to appeal to the youngsters. There are only 2 types of people who believe in RS, either illiterates or their offspring (1st gen). Younger people have a much harder time "believing"
Posted by: Neon | November 15, 2015 at 11:51 AM
...neon quote....Younger people have a much harder time "believing"
.....you wish
Posted by: sooni | November 16, 2015 at 12:13 AM
We had a speaker that had a business that sold meat. The person in charge of the speakers is a member of the rich family that bought the Fayetteville Center property. They pretty much control everything there. The speaker was really good friends with the Secretary. He kept saying how else is this guy going to feed his family. I’m like what kind of response is that. The speaker is preaching us to be vegetarians. But at the same time the speaker is selling meat for a living. The people put a lot of pressure on management and finally he couldn’t be a speaker anymore. We have speakers now that don’t really follow the path. They preach to the people. But they don’t do meditation. They don’t behave in a loving/kind way.
Posted by: Jimmy Singh | November 16, 2015 at 12:13 PM
If anyone doubts reincarnation, read "Many Lives, Many Masters," by Dr. Weiss MD. He was chief psychiatrist at Mt Sinai Hospital in Florida, one of the top teaching and psychiatric hospitals in the US. He`d been trained at Columbia and Harvard Med Schools. Treating a deeply neurotic patient called Cathy with all the usual techniques, he found he was getting nowhere. After taking her into deeper hypnosis, he found he was actually taking her into her past lives; only then did healing start to take place! (This to his amazement, as he`d had no prior experience of this kind of thing, given his Jewish and scientific background). He has since gone on to write a number of books on healing and reincarnation. RichardB.
Posted by: richard binstead | April 29, 2017 at 09:42 AM