« Agnosticism: knowledge comes via experience and evidence | Main | Dilbert comic hits close to home »

May 24, 2015


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Wonderful book!!!!

This whole upset is false
I can't believe David Lane who 's graduating youngsters can applause

If my english was somewhat better and I would have the time to search the email addresses of all these authors Brian applauds to all the time
I would utter my amazement on a worldwide scale.
Now I stay in Brians blog inviting Mr. Coyne and other atheist fellows
to rebunk me.

If there had never been a supernova providing the elements
these authors wouldn't exist - . . not as writers
Where do they come from :-)

The notion that a God should be so powerless and low-grade that a science that is just , hardly able to play with nano parts, works in decimals and not with the Golden Rule, is just capable to throw a stone on the moon but not provide bread to the ISS, . . .
understands so little about our own hormonic regulation system
that it poisons the whole stressed planet with tons of serotonine, dopamine and so on while nature itself applies micrograms if not nanograms
and the list is so long . . .
OK , this is the science where authors refer to that God should adapt Himself to !


It would be really a shame, an embarrassment, a flabbergasting unprofessionalism among the Gods :)

Before on this Blog I mathematically proved three times that Brian is God Himself,
the same for the commenters here and Mr. Hamelin & Coyne

Each other explanation is impossible
Also it's the only plausible in view of so called "injustices"

I will not repeat that anyone of them should understand what I say
and why
plus that if they are not cruel can quickly verify my statements
IN themselves by simply start hearing the beautiful sound above their eyes
but enough - It might be seen as 'preaching' and Brian forbade that,

So I proceed on the arguments of Mr Coyne

He asked :
"""A God doesn't just sit there; what does He do?""""

Can't you see that HE does everything.
That SHE just challenge us to find Him, like the detective who can't find the stolen diamond because the thief placed it in the detective's pocket


"""Third, we make this theory testable: we must be able to determine whether it is true or false. """

I did
each VG ( vegetarian without uric acids in his blood ) can start in a minute
You don't have to meditate or need a Guru for proof
Just be aware

""" Fourth, we must test the theory by observation or experiment. - """

How easy that is, . . .
next I add : what is the catch? as Dr Phil often says :
A sublime feeling of real Love
plus an understanding of what that Love as a matter of FACT is,
NOT FAITH, but a knowledge of being secure the whole time
( Brian and David Lane will not deny that they felt like that , even before starting hearing some sound if ever that was the case )
The end of attachments to undesirable stuff , I mean temporal stuff, our body included
Eternal liberation from unwanted pain
No Death for You, . . . death means nothing because you saw that you are the sweet sweet unbelievable vibrating energy
that is recharging the molecules around

LET's END , and it shouldn't be necessary but the following
is so unbehaving, un-behoving, even as if there was no sense at all :

""" Here's the Hamelin passage. I think it's wonderfully brilliant and persuasive. Deal with these criteria, God-believers. You can't, - """



I am not sure if I understand your post 777.

But feeling love doesn't prove something supernatural.

Rather, from a purely evolutionary perspective one could see its function quite clearly: it bonds those who feel it and such bonding is more conducive to raising children. Love acts as a glue, in a sense..... But do we really need to introduce a "god" to explain it?

Of course, maybe I just didn't understand your post. So is there something specific that we can chew over?

Love is simple and also Huge
For humans it's compassion without agenda and has almost nothing to do with the hormone glue you mention David

For God: He cannot be anything than Love ( without agendatoo ) , any other energy would have been destructive and totally so long ago at these figures
like 10 Billion Galaxies per visible square meter by counted by Hubble
in this tiny universe

no, I have no questions and yes the very learned do not understand my words , neither the Word
Most of what I would like to chew would alas be deleted by Brian,
so you could alter your "guru page" in a way that comments are possible
and of course refrain from manipulation / editing

I would like to explain and destabilize All conclusions produced by yourself there , derived as a result of the wrong understanding of the faqir's situation


I wish I could find your arguments evidential but I don't.

I think Faqir explained himself very well and doesn't need me to interpret him.

Of course, you could discuss this with Professor Bhagat Ram Kamal, who is also very insightful and points out that gurus are not honest in general concerning their appearances, and so on.

As for God, I have always liked Stendahl's joke concerning Him,

"God's only excuse is that he doesn't exist."

Hey Lane how can Chand knows that others do not know ..that applies to him also. If they are not aware of others he is not aware of others also...he could only talk for himself.
Otherwise he's just the same as others(gurus)
...love your guru
..he talks even of semen ..more like Shivananda

...folks stop with this nonsense..there is no sant mat1.0 or 2.0 ..there is only one shabd yoga ..and it is meditation.. there are only thousand different approaches and interpretations in explaining.

Faqir Chand..meditate!
Maharshi Mehi..meditate!
Shiv Dayal..meditate..
so on..
Nothing knew it is meditation...if one doesn't like it..find stuff you like..simple..
It is like in fitness ...cause people cannot do 200 pushups and lift some weights and eat less there are million's of diets apparatus regimes and philosophies....
...i am not intelligent but Lane or Heinz does your head ever hurt or is your brain ever swollen of all the thinking and varieties and philosophies....
Lane I see you as total and just normal satsangi but you are kind of hidden against this critic.but I have nothing against you two Heinz and Laneimir I just think it is another two oppinions on the list of many. Now go and start your brain and manifest your need to clarify things to me cause you are the smarties and we have to listen your smenar now.

""" "Lane's only excuse is that he doesn't exist." """

How can you exist without a cause ?

Thank you for telling that it's not accomodating you
to open your "guru sheet" to commenters,

I wish you the Mauj of doing the least possible damage !


Bunka is right and I'm not looking for sparring partners but for Naam

Thank you for your comment 777, but again not quite sure what you are driving at. What do you mean by "guru sheet"?

Stendahl's point was ironic but I guess some jokes are in the telling (jk).

As for bunka, I wouldn't disagree about Faqir's emphasis on meditation since he clearly advocate it. As for what other gurus know, I probably should just quote Faqir directly,

"Ignorant masses are
advised to get initiated for they shall be led to heavens by their Guru
after their death. Had many of the present gurus not confessed to me
that they too remain unaware about their manifestation, I would have
thought that I am in the wrong. Hazur Baba Sawan Sing Ji, Hazur
Baba Charan Singh Ji (present guru of the Beas Centre), Late Bhai
Nandu Singh Ji of Nizamabad, Sh.Anand Rao Ji of Secundrabad and
Sant Tara Chand Ji, all have admitted that they too do not manifest
them selves to their respective disciples. Of late another guru known
as SHEHAN-SHAH, who works as successor to Sant Kirpal Singh Ji
in the western countries, met me in the train at Sonepat Railway
Station. He is a friend ofPire-Mughan-Sahib. He also admitted that his
form also manifests to his devotees, but he does not know anything
about his manifestations. Unfortunately none of them speaks out the
Truth on the Platform."

Dear David,
I guess you will agree not starting here judging holy men
c q fake holy men
but only take what faqir chand had said to you

Before entering in it I would like to repeat a question
"Why there are so many fake gurus"
Advaita Nissergadata
"Because there are so many fake seekers"
I think that covers already our subject
It's true on the Brahma Advaita level ( first region ) and also for the seventh vertical heaven. (Talmud-Zohar)

Of course we can only be reasonably sure about our own experiences, inside or outside or a combi of these two
not by declarations.

To follow Brians interdictions on preaching I will not repeat
what I have already described on this blog, yars ago
You can find one of my terrific 'outside' happening, googling
( not in another browser, strange enough )
I also have already given my agreement for what it is worth that Holy Satgurus indeed mostly do not know about these thousands or millions
of occurrences and so impressive sweet helping hands all around the globe in there name
Only when their own Master lets them know about it, . . then they know
And this goes with an efficiency that only God can provide :

This knowledge may come suddenly when the disciple comes before The Holy Man or at the reception of a letter or for another reason
or not at all.
For the rest Charan was calm and serene loving His Own Master insidely
faking reading the Herald Tribune or doing both at the same time.

When these thousands of disciples during mitt Seva got Darshan ,and He stared at them, it's The complete Power of all His Holy Predecessors radiating what we call Darshan
He is just admiring the extraordinary Love of Sawan who on His turn does the same in Jaimal, which can go
to the Divine in hundreds of Saints Manifestations

My wife has seen Jesus that way, amazing : she has no christian background

I know an american professional hypnotizer working for your GOV
and I took him to a Bandhara and while I saw the radiant liquid river of Diamonds flowing from Charan's forehead in all directions ,,
that friend said to me : "He's hypnotizing the guys "
I said : Yes He might
and then knew that THIS is a flow that comes from the Divine
and Yes
like there are psychics in the world and 0,001% can be the real , one
in the same way might be using this giant power of Darshan , . . . some drops of it can be used by few people who have it in their karma
the hypnotizing talent and many use that the wrong way, . . in most cases , JUST NOT FOR LOVE

This is the whole quintessence of the RSSB Path and it is beautiful
At another occasion I saw Charan ( while the massive rain was uphold by Him in Delhi only on the Satsang Ground )
I saw Him as the indian deity statues with four Lion Heads,
The difference was that I saw the Giant Power outflowing and these heads were as it were symbolic, YET REAL, and in 360° in all azimuths
all around Him and the Beauty I cannot explain.
One can only cry.
In this way The rssb Masters ""subconsciously - their Master does that "" give hints to the disciples , so encouraging doing the meditations were things can be an whole new ballgame !

Back to what these masters do.
Nothing in the sense that we can understand with the exception of those who due to their meditations casu quo LOVE
see that synchronoties and serendipities occur each day more
and more
producing the knowledge that Their Master indeed does everything

When I, myself as a very low end disciple
and qua Jeeva really beyond any acceptation
and I have seen that in meditations
When I can understand these workings of God in His projections ( the Jeevas )
why can the Faqir not ?
When he had been a real Faqir which also means Saint
I would have known that the prime characteristic of a Holy Saint is SUBMISSION

You yourself wrote somewhere that Charan was not happy at all when appointed
that He couldn't stand it and I believe Gurinder also said at the appointment : " Now my life has gone "

Yes, Sawan also . . He couldn't believe what happened with Him

And so the RSSB Satgurus they start trying submission, but lucky for them,
at the same time they are overloaded with happenings and serendipities , just enough to stay in balance and then see around themselves
the Sangat flourish more than ever -
and continue doing what They have promised to their Own Holy Master
Their start and everything that follows is Obedience.

You have not forgotten that Charan said : "It ever Grows !"

With this definition of what Heaven is - not a place or time but a state of consciousness - it's the disciple adding certain space-time environments ),
He, Charan defined also the essence of SatGuruShip

I'm pitying the faqir that he didn't understand that
he hadn't the slightest idea
but shame that he used this ignoramous situ to start blaming the real Saints
Btw : who was his guru ?

This Path of inward progress goes with outward seredipities for every initiated who possesses a little piece of Love.

The most essential in believers of the faqirs slander is that it temporary kills the Love, essential for the tiniest ascend

Now, why was/is he capable to sow the nonsense ?
It's the MAUJ *
I have seen many former lives , deplorable of myself
they are really ego-killing
when you relive them just as clear as your last vacation
Also magnificent former lifes of satsangis , the Master showed :
so Great as Giant Deities producing myriad streams of Life per second
for the Almighty, they are called 'Powers' in catholic teachings,
strange while they are here on this planet poor and sick
they go on in their heavens at the same time
and I can say you : HIS Will is : He does what he wants,
nothing is fixed * there is no end * He is the demonstration of the tripling of Love exponentially when you give Love away as in Mirdad

That beautiful JapJi Page of the Adi Granth plus the Magnificat is tiny
peanuts, compared with His Power
and compared with His Love

When the faqir would have had a nano second of what millions Satsangis receive ( specially those wo cannot read )
he would have kept his mouth shut

I mostly say to a seeker :" Ask for initiation only if you can't stop the desire"

I think the most tiny Love coupled with INTUITION, which I value far over science
a tiny piece of Love which can endlessly grow will do it

David, you must have had some of it before faqir killed it


Again I hope some harm can be repaired before you die
which is much easier than after



Wow, 777 - I would go to satsang if I could hear things like this.

You're right about the synchronicity and serendipities that occur and also that feeling of being secure the whole time (I used to have that and kind of lost it for a while). Very inspiring, thank you.

Thanks Brian.

I told my wife about you
and how difficult it can be
and how you told to renew your efforts
Be sure you endure only a tiny part of was due to the bookkeeper

[email protected]

Is the investigation of consciousness by consciousness science or religion? Or philosophy or mysticism....?


A very good point, you are making here
The investigation ( leading to Gnosis) is merely a by-product
it even can do harm : inflation to the ego
We can balance Love and curiosity from amazement
with Simran

Satsangis often wish happenings, films, views
more than Love
When something progresses in the inside, they can lose balance

The Power received by a RSSB Saint , in 5 Words are often SO underestimated
The "may His Force be with you" sword is in those words,
They keep us in balance

They are SO much a perfect equalizer,

Happy you brought this up today


Brian, an interesting post. I'm in overall agreement with you on this, but you slightly lost me on one step of the argument, which is this bit: "If her theory can be tested only by private revelation, not by observations available to everyone, she unjustifiably claims private knowledge." Please could you explain this a little more? Why is private knowledge unjustifiable? I see that it's not provable or shareable, but could it not nevertheless be true? The reason I ask you this is partly that when I try to explain to satsangis why I'm no longer "one of them" then it's always some version of this "claim to private knowledge (or an aspiration to one day making such a claim) that they hold up as some kind of clinching argument. I don't think it is a clincher, myself, but I haven't been able to explain adequately why it isn't... Your help would be appreciated.

Unknowing, you ask good questions. I had some similar thoughts when I read that rather enigmatic part of the quotation. Here's how I see the issue of "private revelation" and "private knowledge."

Can knowledge be private? Only if we define knowledge in a way that makes it virtually (or completely) synonymous with subjective experience. But then it isn't really knowledge -- something that holds true for more than just a single experiencer.

I feel uplifted when I gaze upon a rushing mountain river in early morning sunlight. (Just did that half an hour ago, actually.) That experience happened to me. But can I call this "knowledge" and expect others to accept it as such?

Well, they can trust that I did indeed have that experience. But there's no way that I, or anyone else, can prove that I really did. Even brain scanners, if one could be hooked up to me on the riverbank, could only show broadly what is happening in my brain, not the experiential feeling associated with this.

So I think the author of that quote was claiming something defensible: a private experience is unjustifiably claimed as private knowledge. Meaning, a person's subjective experience can't be held out as actual knowledge of some objectively real aspect of the world without evidence that is more than private.

Otherwise, what are we left with? Anyone could claim anything to be true, demanding that others accept it as true. I get pulled over by a policeman for speeding. I tell him "God told me that I needed to go that fast, so speeding is part of my religious freedom." He or she should laugh at me.

Yes, satsangis and other religious believers make claims to private knowledge. All the time. So does everyone else. Whenever I say "I feel..." or "I dreamed..." I'm claiming private knowledge. But like I said, this really is a claim to a private experience, which isn't objectionable.

I can accept that you had a private experience, because I assume you have subjectivity, just as I do. However, if you want me to accept your private experience as something true about the world, you need to bring forth more than just a subjective claim.

""" If you want me to accept your private experience as something true about the world, you need to bring forth more than just a subjective claim. """

The hyper objective Vivaldi history wasn't enough
The churched would pay half a billion for such sturdy miracle

Must I throw the moon in the sun without damage in Salem ?
It wouldn't be enough

Further , it's areasonable comment but you forgot
that we, Satsangis were invited by slander and gross accusations to speak.

Then we bounced here on the stupid assumption that
the universe and we exist but there is no cause
Next we use math and you call that subjective.

Time to explode Brian


What is with 777? If this person is truly an RSSB devotee, then I absolutely cannot see why he (or she) is so hell-bent on arguing with people who don't share his beliefs. This is absolutely against the recommendation of the RSSB guru, for one thing. It's also utterly pointless, according to the doctrine of RSSB, which states that whoever is destined to come to the guru and be saved by him will come, willy-nilly. (And indeed whatever will happen will happen.) Nothing 777 says will make any difference to the destiny of any other commenter on this blog. Presuming that 777 is as confident of his own destiny as he claims to be, then why doesn't he just let the rest of us alone?

""" ( whatever will happen will happen.) """

Your comment happened :-) and some more !... https://sites.google.com/site/theguruquestion/

and Thank You Brian


Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.