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December 12, 2014


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Many people enjoy believing lies and fantasies and carrying on a pretense, so religion doesn't dilute their enjoyment of life - it enhances it. Religious, "spiritual" people delight in make-believe and what-should-be, and deplore skeptics who rain on their parade and scientists who throw wet blankets on their warm and fuzzy faith. Enjoyment is in the eye of the beholder, and believers would rather behold a pack of pretty lies and pompous promises than face a naked fact.

x, good points. I should have noted the pleasure of religious believing in this post, along with the drawback.

The "black and white" vs. "technicolor" reference in the post came from a message board comment I read on the Internet long ago. But that reference was reversed, in that it was the religious believers who saw themselves as living in a vibrant world filled with God's love.

So you're right: in one sense religious believers do feel better by embracing dogma. But in my experience this is sort of a lifeless enhancement of life. It isn't natural, or founded in everyday experiential perceptions.

It is based on concepts, hopes, imaginings, fantasies. There is a certain rigidity and fearfulness to it, because even believers realize how flimsy it is, capable of being punctured by reality. I still believe it is a negative influence on enjoyment. However, it does bring its own form of pleasure.

I know that I felt a sense of relief, freedom and release when I stopped believing and participating in an "India based religion". It was a spiritual experience to give up being spiritual.

Pascal's Wager not only assumes that there could be a God but it also assumes that we know what God wants or that God has any wants or that God cares at all about anything in any individual personal way or otherwise. Nobody knows. Or, if anybody does know, they have no ability to communicate God's reality and will in a way that is objective and observable, that can be experienced as reality by the average person in the same way we experience the reality of the sun rising. It may be that God is a verb rather than a noun. There may be no eternal noun and the verb is us.

It may be that nothing matters in a cosmic sense, whether you behave one way or another that we deem "good" or "bad". It only matters in the way we individually interpret life according to our relative, conditioned beliefs and society's group consciousness of how life is and should be interpreted. The only authority is us and what do we know?

Someone will say, "Well that's why we have the Bible or the Upanishads, Koran, gurus, prophets, Popes, saints and holy men."

Who knows if they know anything?

Tuscon - i concur. Very well said too.

Strange, in our ancient past, the rising sun was seen as God's resurrection from death. In other cases, the sun was not only proof of God (Aten), but, well, WAS God. Amenhotep III, where are you now after all the Gods and Goddesses have been vanquished from the imagination of lonesome humanity? Also a few gurus have taken a header down the sacred steps.

Over all, Sant Mat minus the God In Human Form Guru concept is as good or better than most of the other Religious belief dogma. "Some Thing" has been projected in to our physical puppet bodies, which is on Auto-Pilot that keeps us operating and bound to the Sant Mat described knotted soul/mind.

If we ignore the concept of God as some physical Dominant character running the show from where ever our "show" is programed from. we might consider ""Creator God" to be as the Christian Bible described God as being Spirit, that must be worshipped in spirit and in truth. So why limit Spirit God to planet earth, or only our Galaxy in our little Universe when there are unlimited galaxies expanding in unlimited Universes as you read this. So why not consider God as The Spirit Multiverse Who created ALL Material by expanding Spirit to crystalize as Matter?

So, if we can accept such a concept, than "we" are nothing more than "Crystalized Spirit" while incarnated as material entities, and we are "Liberated spirit" once our material bodies no longer can support the Spirit Program projected in to our earth suits from Multiverse, and our physical body dies.

We make living in human bodies way too complicated by religion, while Sant Mat minus God In Human Form Gurus still offer the most simple solution for living and enjoying life with out becoming slaves to Dogma.
My last Blog post captures my present thoughts on who I speculate my "self" to be, at this moment in Eternal time less expansion of awareness while still bound to this human body.


Life is good, when taking control of our own actions, and reaping either the benefits of positive karma or actions, or the negative sentences that we have sentenced our selves to receive by our past evil actions . If no one believes in Karma, then keep doing negative deeds, and reap the consequences of Karma! Karma is not dogma. Karma will make believers out of both Saints and Sinners, when put to the test.

I have visited 45 different countries during the last two years, and am booked solid to Travel more of the world I have not yet seen in 2015 and beyond.

I consider my "self" healthy, wealthy, and wise, at almost 73 by using Sant Mat as my Spiritual Balance, with out making my "self" any Guru's slave, other than being a Bond Slave to the Spirit Multiverse Who has projected in to this body that travels and enjoys the world while the rest of the Dogmatists argue about Birth, Life, and Death.

I feel like a fool for having wasted my time reading Jim Sutherland's self-promoting, blog-plugging infomercial. It is not a comment and shouldn't be posted as such.

x, I hear you. It's a challenge to decide when a comment crosses the line into preachiness. You're right: Jim's comment didn't much relate to the subject or content of this post, which it should.

I usually try to be accommodating with comments, believing in free speech. When I looked over the comment, it seemed to have at least a minimal connection with the theme of the post, so I published it.

I agree, though, that the comment was largely off-base, in that it was much more a recitation of dogma than Jim's personal opinions.

Sorry, X, that you feel you wasted more of your precious time. But, thanks, Brian, for posting my current heart felt thoughts . I don't "promote" my blog. I only use it to share my present thoughts, same as you and others are doing here. No sense in wasting new Cyber space in writing some thing I already wrote on my blog to duplicate again. In the final Big picture, will any of us really give a hoot what each other speculates?

I could change my belifs on a dime, after reading some thing you or others share here, same as you could also change your beliefs on a dime should some thing I wrote ring your Bell.


Jim Sutherland wrote above of some concepts that sound interesting to me. However, I disagree with his saying: "... while Sant Mat minus God In Human Form Gurus still offer the most simple solution for living and enjoying life with out becoming slaves to Dogma."

Sant Mat minus GIHF gurus is like taking the pudding out of the cup. That path is all about devotion to guru because of what the guru can do for you. Without guru you are sunk as far as the RSSB version of Sant Mat is concerned. You MUST have initiation by a perfect Sat Guru. What is that? How is that determined? That this guru is perfect while that guru is not? If you could determine that you wouldn't need one.

In any case, Sant Mat is stuffed full of dogma even without the GIHF concept...soul, karma, vegetarianism, Kal-the negative power, inner regions, good-bad actions, separation from God, sound current (shabd or nam) and the concept of God itself. The whole thing is full of beliefs that can't be substantiated by anyone who feels the need of such a path. If these things were known to the seeker then they wouldn't need a path to know them! So, it's all dogma taken on faith. It's all relative and conceptual as are our perception of life as it comes through our individual filters. We really don't have a clue what is happening.

If we crystalize what IS RIGHT NOW into concepts and words we surely miss the mark. We may intuitively perceive Truth in a non-relative wordless state encompassing THIS RIGHT NOW without a moments thought or reflection...from all dimensions of consciousness at once, whatever that may be. Maybe. I don't know.

And the idea of karma being the result of our actions and being punished or rewarded by/for those actions is a bit ridiculous if indeed we are helpless puppets on a string being swept along by cosmic forces we have no awareness or control of and therefore in no way in control of our actions.

We're all just splashing around trying to find a shore. Sorry.

Jim Sutherland is racking up more karma than his dogma can keep up with.

I'm not sure that's true. That religious belief necessarily dilutes one's enjoyment in and of life. As x points out in his/her comment above, and you do too in your subsequent comment.

It worked in your case, obviously, but others might be driven to nihilistic despair by lack of faith, or barring that, at least to a state that compares unfavorably with the fuzzy comfort of faith.

Different types of people and personalities get off on different kinds of things. Not all people want the red pill. There are those who find the blue pill (or pills of any numbers of colors, or combinations of colors) comforting and preferable to the starkness of reality.

There are many, many, many bona fide arguments against the monstrosity that is religion, but not the feel-good-feel-good one. Fundamentalists are likely to pounce on that one to talk of the wonderful comfort that their faith can bring, if only you'll let it. That's one of the very few arguments and proponents of blind faith are likely to actually win out on!

"Fundamentalists are likely to pounce on that one to talk of the wonderful comfort that their faith can bring, if only you'll let it. That's one of the very few arguments and proponents of blind faith are likely to actually win out on!."

--Yes, faith is a gift of great comfort. You just turn it all over to Jesus or the guru or whatever godly image you choose. It's in his hands. Your job is done. Whether you catch Ebola or get a 25 year old body again, it's all good. You are being cared for and salvation is assured.

There is also some satisfaction, adventure and empowerment in believing there is no guiding hand of a superpower that loves you. That you are on your own to deal with the unknown. That possibilities are endless. It's like a pioneer heading into the great expanse and potential of the West with a horizon that goes on into infinity.

Tuscon -- let'z start a Church called:

"We Don't Know WTF is Going On!"

Just read about a young person who has no re-collection of the first 12 years of her life due to illness that damaged her brain. What went on is gone for us, unless it goes into the leaky bucket of memory. What "goes on" without the bucket to catch and store and do the "Make a Me Project"? It is just a stream of well, we don't know WTF the stream is.

Here in SA today we celebrate The Day of Reconciliation...I have just received a phone call from a dear satsangi friend I wen't to Dera with...I realize I loved the followers more than I ever loved the founder..If my comments have caused any pain or distress to anyone I apologise...I know there is love and guidance is this world...I just like to refer to it as Something Else...With thanks to Mike Williams.

"We Don't Know WTF is Going On!"

Again, Very simple to prove SOLOPISM

harvesting Love where & when it sprouts , . . if you like it or not,
Suck the sweet anahabad Shabd folks



"Enjoying life" !?


Sounds suspiciously like indulging in sense pleasures that are merely temporal and don't really lead to pure, soul-fulfilling experiences.

"Pure, soul-fulfilling experiences." What, pray tell, would these be? Please describe.

And include how they differ from enjoying life. So I take it pure, soul-fulfilling experiences aren't enjoyable parts of living? Again, then, what are they, if not that?

And you imply that they aren't time-bound. Are they eternal? If so, what leads you to claim this for them, whatever they are? Have you experienced eternity? If so, when?

I don't know much about about Sant Mat, but Tucson has summed up in one post exactly why it doesn't sound right.

Its conceivable that there are more 'perfected' individuals with a raised sense of consciousness, but I'm not sure what those terms even mean.

But 'perfected' or 'raised consciousness', implies a system based on morals. Of good and bad, or put another way, being aligned with the nature of ultimate reality (good karma) or acting against it (bad karma).

So the nature of ultimate reality (God) is suposedly present in the sarguru. The satguru has realised the nature of ultimate reality and embodies it. That is the argument as I understand it.

For example, the SM moral edict of vegetarianism. But is it based on:
(a) avoiding unnecessary suffering to sentient beings; or
(b) that all killing and destruction of life is unholy (karmically bad)?

I'm no guru, but (a) makes more sense, yet it appears (b) is where SM is.

Also, killing and destruction, appear to be hardwired into the nature of reality, long before humans arrived on the scene. It is physically impossible for many animals to survive without killing and eating the flesh of other animals. This is not a manmade rule. This is nature's rule, long before man appeared on the scene. So if killing other sentient animals is an inherent rule of nature, does this not mean that killing and devouring flesh is part of god's nature?

Even the strictest vegan, kills other life forms - how sentient they are or not, is another story - but all they are doing is minimising suffering to certain types of organisms deemed to be more sentient (or deserving then others). They are still killing or destroying life - they have to do so or else they cannot survive.

But as I understand it SM is more along the lines of (b), because eating eggs is not allowed, and presumably abortion and euthanasia are also not allowed?

Euthanasia is the practice of intentionally killing or ending life to avoid suffering. This seems to me to be one of the most humane things we can do, however hard it is. If an animal is suffering, what do we do? I don't see how it should be any different for humans.

tucson, you say "Yes, faith is a gift of great comfort. You just turn it all over to Jesus or the guru or whatever godly image you choose. It's in his hands. Your job is done."

This doesn't apply to all satsangis. If they are expecting an easy ride and that the guru is going to do everything for them and all they need is faith, I don't think so. No way.

Meditation is a struggle, pain and numbness in the limbs, never mind the falling asleep constantly, and this has to be done, no getting away from it. Otherwise we make no progress on this path. Its easier to just chuck it all in.

The feeling of being isolated because of being different to others. I'm so sick of being asked about being a vegetarian, why no alcohol etc. Its easier just to avoid people.

Keeping control over the passions: lust, anger, attachment, greed and ego.

Why continue? For myself, I realise how entangled we are in this world. How little we know and how much we have forgotten.

So, does religious belief dilute enjoyment of life? Does that mean giving up worldly pleasures for something that means so much more?

The journey is important, the small experiences on the way, the feeling of an inner connectedness, that there is something else so much more than this. We live. We die. Meaning is important.

The journey is important, the small experiences on the way, the feeling of an inner connectedness, that there is something else so much more than this. We live. We die. Meaning is important.

Yes, but what if "the journey" is all in your mind, a matter of hope and wishful thinking, just like the "inner connectedness"? Is there really "something else so much more than this", or is that just your fervent desire? Could it be that you're dismissing and discounting "this" for what you earnestly hope for?

Yes, "we die" and "meaning is important", but the meaning you attribute to your experience is determined more by what you want to be true than by what the facts indicate.

No doubt you will continue with the "struggle" of meditation in pursuit of "progress on this path", but if the whole endeavor could be an exercise in wishful thinking, a commitment to a fantasy cooked up by delusional minds and served up to credulous consumers, wouldn't you want to know?

x, everything is mind.

Inner connectedness comes from feelings - not "wishful thinking" - which is also the mind. Life is a journey, although it is moment by moment, and I'm not "earnestly hoping" for anything. I think it would be nice to continue my journey in a higher state of consciousness. Where do you read "fervent desire" in my comment. This is your perception. As always, you judge from your own perception that anyone with a different point of view is deluded and credulous.

I disagree that the meaning I attribute to my experience in life is determined more by what I want to be true than the actual facts.

I also use reason and logic which I balance with feelings and intuition. Who knows - intuition may be a higher state of mind. Reason and logic can be very cold and limiting. There are other states of consciousness and this is not necessarily "fantasy cooked up by delusional minds and served up to credulous consumers".

You have your perception about life and people and I have mine. It must be terribly boring, cold and nasty to be constantly dealing with logic and reason without at least the understanding that we are all different.

Observer, dear sister, if you find medidation difficult and painfull might I suggest that something is not right..It should be a joy..Simplally sit..and seek The Beloveds Face, do your simran if you must, but let your yearning quide you, but you must be carefull, if you are diligently meditating doors can open up..What I have discerned is that most western disciples come from that region that SM speaks about between the third and forth (if there be such things) and that is a very dangerous place or state (not sure) to be. Take care.

I think it would be nice to continue my journey in a higher state of consciousness.

It might be nice to fly to the sun on a winged unicorn. Good luck on your journey toward your imagined "higher state of consciousness". I hope it isn't as "terribly boring" as your current state sounds.

Hi June,

It should be a joy you're right! Thanks for your encouragement and I will take care :)


...my journey in a higher state of consciousness

Whenever I hear or see the phrase "higher consciousness" I'm reminded of the many ninnies who took a lot of LSD back when it was the thing to do, and of the sanctimonious, scripture quoting, robed dingbats who found their leader and followed their bliss down into the rabbit hole of grandiose delusion and self-righteousness.

A few, like Brian, found their way out of this foolishness, but too many are still pursuing the dream of freedom and enlightenment through slavish devotion to "practice", which is anything but practical when, instead of learning how deceived and deluded you can be, you deceive and delude yourself.

If there's any difference between "higher consciousness" and being "high", it's that the former is come by through devoted practice, and the latter, by means of a drug. But when you hear or read what those who have earned their alleged highness through practice have to say, you have to wonder why they went to all the trouble. They're as dopey as the druggies...but without the humility or the humor.

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