More weird news from the world of Radha Soami Satsang Beas

Back in the days when I followed an Indian guru, Charan Singh, the guru business was a lot more appealing than it is now. 

Charan Singh almost cerainly wasn't "god in human form" as devotees of the Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) mystical teachings believed.

But undeniably he was a fine human being: humble, compassionate, intelligent, and utterly determined to keep RSSB's form of spirituality as untainted by materialism as possible.

Charan Singh was scrupulous about keeping his family business separate from his duties as guru. He also said that RSSB shouldn't have overseas centers, as this would distract from the true duty of the disciple to meditate and realize divine reality.

After Charan Singh's death, his nephew, Gurinder Singh, became guru. A lot has changed with Radha Soami Satsang Beas since. Gurinder Singh has no problem with making hundreds of millions of dollars while serving as guru. (See here, here, here, and here.)

Understand: I have no problem with a guru, or anyone else, becoming rich.

I'm just pointing out that back in the 1970's and 80's when the guru who initiated me, Charan Singh, was head of RSSB, this organization had a vibe that was considerably more spiritual and less materialistic than it is now.

Below is some info that recently was pointed out to me. Since quite a few readers of this blog are interested in RSSB goings-on, I wanted to share -- without much comment -- links that can be read directly if anyone wants to learn more.

Religare Health Trust buys RSSB hospital property. Religare, an Indian company with close ties to guru Gurinder Singh and his family, has paid $43 million for hospital property owned by Radha Soami Satsang Beas.

Religare Health Trust, a Singapore-listed business trust housing physical assets and some businesses of healthcare services firm Fortis, is buying the Mohali hospital property from religious trust Radha Soami Satsang Beas for Rs 270 crore ($43.2 million), as per a stock market disclosure. It is also buying the clinical establishment unit of the hospital from Fortis Healthcare for Rs 15 crore ($2.3 million), as part of a larger deal.

Gurpreet Singh Dhillon, the guru's son, was named CEO of Religare Health Trust. A few months after the above-mentioned purchase by Religare of RSSB hospital property, the guru's son got a promotion from being Religare Health Trust's chief operating officer to become chief executive officer. 

Religare Health Trust (RHT), a wholly owned subsidiary of Delhi-based Religare Enterprise Ltd (REL), has named Gurpreet Dhillon as CEO of the company. Earlier, Dhillon was working as the executive director and COO of RHT.

...Gurpreet Dhillon is also a second cousin of the billionaire brothers Malvinder and Shivinder Singh who are the promoters of Religare and Fortis Group. Moreover, Gurpreet is one of the two sons of Gurinder Singh Dhillon, leader of the spiritual group Radha Soami Satsang Beas. The Singh brothers are followers of the spiritual group and their maternal grandfather had previously served as one of the gurus of the group.

RSSB Australia wants to build a large center in a "green wedge" agricultural zone. Some people in Melbourne aren't thrilled about part of the city's green space being turned into a RSSB religious center where the cars of up to 2,000 people may be parked if a waiver to planning/zoning rules is granted. Some excerpts from comments on this story:

Green wedges are our city's "lungs" to protect us from the heat island effect, and over-development. Trees and vegetation absorb heat, water and cool our city when it's needed, and allows birds to feed and nest.  Once the green wedges are gone, our city will be a concrete, sprawling, hotbed of wall to wall houses and infrastructure.  The green wedges have a purpose and should be left alone.

...This cannot be allowed. This is green wedge land and no organisation should be allowed to build here.

...NO.  Are they really suggesting that a group of up to 2000 people is 'unlikely to cause any disturbance to the surrounding community'?

Just how will they ensure that "that a practitioner be at least 24-years-old, lead a moral life, abstain from alcohol and mind-altering drugs, maintain a lacto-vegetarian diet, and give time to daily spiritual practice?

Who gains financially from this proposal?  I sincerely hope the council is not looking at this as revenue.

No, a green wedge is for all.

...This is an encroachment on a green wedge that's meant to be kept "green" and safe from any developments.  This is taking over by stealth, then it will be open slather "vacant" land for open-ended usage!  The Green wedges were preserved by the forward-thinking Hamer government, to protect Melbourne from becoming a sprawling mono-lith of concrete, infrastructure and housing!  Once this is opened, for worship even if only on Sundays, it will mean car parking and then set a precedent for more developments!  

Using medical marijuana is a no-no, even when legal. The Australia RSSB newsletter explains that no initiate, or applicant for initiation, should use medical marijuana even if it is legal where they live (as it is in Oregon, where I am, along with many other states).
Download Australian Sept 2014 No 015 Newsletter

However, the newsletter says that sometimes medicines have to be taken for pain, and these will affect the mind and ability to concentrate. Also, "if we are serious in our resolve, we will seek out the medicines that have the least effect in this regard and do our best to use them for the shortest duration possible."

Well, it's a fact that medical marijuana is much less addictive or harmful than other pain relievers such as opiates. And a research study found that the opiates are more effective when used on conjunction with marijuana. 

So if the goal is to "feel better fast" and reduce dependency on opiates, using medical marijuana arguably is the way to go. Here again, an irrational religious dogma supplants science. RSSB devotees are supposed to follow whatever rules are handed down by the guru, even when they don't make sense.

Comments

[Sita]

Cannabidiol (CBD) – It is a major, non-psychoactive component of cannabis that helps shrink inflammation and reduce pain without inducing the euphoria effects of THC. It has been used to treat rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory bowel diseases, psychotic disorders and epilepsy. Larger amounts of CBD can relax the mind and body without causing negative side effects associated with THC

[Enlighten One]

Brian! Like the Photo of Charan Singh! I wouldn’t be surprised the current Master, Gurinder Singh reads your posts! Incredible news of this RSSB groups changes / Science of the Soul spiritual organizations around the world you keep on bringing to us all.
100% agree in your facts on how Charan Singh kept his business dealing personal and separate from the Spiritual Practices of the organization dealings and daily affairs as a Patron!
A great article you’ve highlighted on a Charitable Hospital SOLD! I wonder to the reasons of the sale, wasn’t it setup by the previous Master?
You once summed up perfectly in a blog what you believed RSSB stood for 35 + years ago:
1. Get initiated.
2. Meditate.
3. Leave the body.
4. Transcend death - by discovering you are a SOUL and do not die and have a life independent of the body.
5. Meet the master within - become good friends with him as he personally escorts you through the inner regions in his Radiant Form [akin to Astral Form].
6. Become all knowing and all powerful as you become a 'saint' and arrive at Sach Khand [heaven, basically].
7. Become immortal and reside in Sach Khand forever.
8. Spend the rest of your life here on earth guiding other souls on the path to Sach Khand.
Keep up the good work !
And finally can you see users of medicinal marijuana user’s (who are in extreme pain and suffering) in countries where Doctors can prescribe, would they be wanting to join so called Sant Mat Guru’s of india?
I think highly unlikely – Finally thank you Sita for an informed medical awareness on the drug.

[Nietzsche]

I got the newsletter with the marihuana news. But also read that one has to something like 25 and has to have a job to get initiated. Woman can be married or have to have a job. Man he gets more and more on a power trip. It made me trow out the last pictures of this evil head and all these stupid books. Wasted time you never get back ;)

[Jesse]

Very interesting to hear this. In regards to the weed thing, it's amazing that the RSSB has forbidden using medicinal marijuana, but doesn't seem to have done any research on what that means. Yes, much of the entire medical legalization advocacy is obviously being masked with pseudo-science,dubious prescriptions for non-existent maladies etc, with the intent on easing it into legalization for "fun" purposes. But, there are still non-psychoactive strains which are used for many illnesses.

RSSB throws the word "science" around, but they seem to have a distaste for data or expansion of knowledge. Or, Religare doesn't invest in marijuana and to allow it to be prescribed wouldn't be in the Guru CEO's interests.

[Tanvee]

Being married into an Indian Radha Soami Family:

I came from a happy, nurturing and fun loving family, with a conscience to live an ethical, righteous life, but not religious. We are at best agnostics and my father leans towards being an atheist. Born Hindus, we were never told to follow any rituals and my mother constantly reminded us that like one chooses his/her name, geography, profession, spouse; similarly he/she has the right to take up a religion and spiritual way of life at any stage.

And I did decide to marry this person from a family that was blindly Radha Soamiites. All conversations started and ended on Babaji and Maharajji. All social conversations were looked down upon because they were not religious enough to suit their palate. It was tough to dine together because all they did and made people do is to read labels of products so that they were not consuming any egg, meat and alcohol ingredients. Their presence till date is socially discomforting not because of the choices they make but more because of the noise they make in exercising their choices.

From reading and forcing me to be part of prayers to insisting that I go for satsangs, I was every living minute being forced to live the power of the so called Guru and convert from a religion less life to a Radha Soami life. Almost like they were doing me a favor by bringing me to light from darkness. The air was always heavy with this pseudo spirituality. They didn't laugh, they didn't enjoy a light moment. Just a silent sense of superior existence. They didn't discuss religion, rapes, riots and give a perspective to anything. It was always a safe silence, muted existence and a constant determined push to make me a radha soami. There were days when I was woken up at 5am to drive my mother in law to her satsang. And as we reached the venue, I would be pushed to walk in to hear the golden words but every time I resisted. In 45degree Celsius heat of Delhi, I sat in the car waiting for her. My logic was simple, If 30 years of blind following has made you what you are, I rather not hear this guy for a minute.

I saw the family as strongly materialistic. Less sensitive about people and their resources and a constant need to fulfil their own agendas in any given environment. I found them clever, selfish and unethical. Every thing they did was an effort to show someone down. I also saw them quite unsure of their stance. They weren't rooted in their philosophy and the philosophy was more a cover for appearing happy, spiritual and giving.

It took me time but I maintained my stance. I still find them so miserably living a life that they weren't meant to. But I do think we all have a choice in how we live.

I met a lot of so called spiritual people through my immediate family. They are all in a miserable journey of hypocrisy. Some honest enough to let you know that they were volunteering at Beas because it is a good, safe, retired life with state of art medical services and everything else taken care of. There was another guy in his late 40s who was phasing down his own business to move into Radha Soami volunteering full time. I probed him on the reasons and he was honest enough to tell me that he had two daughters going to senior school and if he becomes a full time volunteer, the girls education will be fully sponsored by Babaji in any foreign country. He also mentioned that old age was comfortable in Beas and what better post retirement life could he get for himself.

I have nothing against cults and religions of the world. I know we all will choose our journey but if the journey is about throttling other peoples lives, then it hardly is a spiritual way of life. If 3 other people have to disturb their schedule for your satsang, it is not a satsang. If you plan to plant pictures of your babaji all over the house, it can't make you spiritual. When you are spiritual, you don't have to go about coaxing people to convert to becoming a satsangi, they will ask you they reason for your glow & inner light. And if it doesn't, then stop fooling people. You came to live on this earth your own reality not someone else's.

Babaji, your are a rich guy taking charter flights across the globe, wearing pashmina shawls. Your son is a CEO and may become your successor too. I know you have taken the middle class of India by storm. Your satsangs leads to the worst traffic jams and the largest carbon footprint in Delhi. Why do these people need to see you and hear you? I have in so many years not come across a single educated enlightened person from Radha Soami Satsang. If you do come across one, let me know. I go for SN Goenka meditations- Vipassana. He is still not my guru but he has given me the science of meditation. He doesn't want followers, he doesn't want to make it a religion and he doesn't want meditators to keep coming back for the 10 days vipassana course, if they have learnt the science of meditation. Do you have the power to be SN Goenka? Or is this blind following by unvirtuous souls the only way you make money? Why not do some good and giving to people who refuse to follow you. You have made your millions but a lot of people will lose their sons and daughters because their blindness is not letting them love and accept unconditionally.

[Brian Hines]

Great comment, Tanvee. Intelligent, well-written, thoughtful.

I just made it into a blog post so more people could read what you said. You eloquently captured what eventually bothered me about many Radha Soami Satsang Beas devotees.

As I said in the post, "the RSSB way of life can turn into a hypocritical, judgmental, rigid, dogmatic pseudo-spirituality." See:

http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2014/11/thoughtful-criticism-of-the-radha-soami-cult-by-an-indian-woman.html

[One Initiated]

@Brian

I hope you are doing great :)

Can you read aloud this slowly ? "R A D H A S O A M I"
Got the hidden secret ?

I can't thank you enough for posting such a love filled pic of Charan Singh Ji Maharaj.

Every RSSB devotee believes that from Soami Ji Maharaj to Babaji including Jaimal Singh Ji, Sawan Singh Ji, Sardar Bahadur Ji, Maharaj Ji are all True Saints and Perfect Masters.
And some of them have experienced it as well.

@Tanvee

There are surely the enlightened ones in RSSB but you've not been fortunate enough so far to be able to meet them.
And the reality is, we won't even be able to meet an enlightened one unless we ourself get to uplift our consciousness.
The old saying is still the gist of the stuff:
"We can't realise a Saint without becoming a Saint"

How a great fact it is that "The whole world is everyone's own reflection. We see what we are". Each and every individual's time and space frame is unique and so the experience they receive with the virtually same looking world is also unique. Because the reflection of the unique frames, i.e. the world, is always unique.
The day we will start to improve and sweeten ourselves, the world will get improved and sweeten.
Some says it's just a great imagination.
Saints tells a different thing, i.e. the reality, imagination is an illusionary thing. No one can imaging anything which is beyond existence. You know why ?
Because we imagine via mind and mind has been created in the very creation. Tried imagining a new color ?

And so, we can not evaluate someone's love for the Guru unless we ourself are in love with the Guru.
But I also believe that imposing and enforcing your opinions on others is real bad. The only outcome of practicing that is scuffle b/w them and the frustration in one or the other person's mind and the similar feelings you are running through in your life.

Your interesting conclusions looks like a frustration towards a family and their belief.
I am a follower of RSSB and I got initiated by Babaji.
I would like to take time and provide my opinions on your observations in the other post which Brian has started.

“Guru guru guru, kar mann mor”
“Guru bin ab mein nahin hor”
- Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj

meaning:
Guru guru guru, is what my heart speaks of.
Without my Guru I am nothing.

regards,
One Initiated

[Lila]

"The whole world is everyone's own reflection"

This is it. We see in others exactly what we are. Good comment One Initiated.

[Brian Hines]

Lila, you're not serious, are you? I look at Hitler and I see exactly what I am? I look at an Islamic terrorist and I see exactly what I am?

That's ridiculous. People and everything else in the world have objective qualities to them, as well as subjective qualities.

[Lila]

Brian, there is a video called "The Greatest Story Never Told" which shows a very different side to the war with Hitler. Who are the warmongers? When I watched it I realised how conditioned and brain washed we were. So yes, with this conditioning we saw in Hitler certain negative characteristics which we have within us, otherwise how could we recognise them? He also had attributes which I noticed, that I have in common with him in that he was vegetarian and loved dogs.

I can see the other side to the Islamic terrorist in that they see themselves as being persecuted by the west. They go too far but I can still understand their anger and hatred.

Yes, we have objective and subjective qualities, but if we don't have a certain quality within us, we are blind to that quality in another.

[tucson]

One Initiated quoted an old saying:

"We can't realise a Saint without becoming a Saint"

--So, if we are not Saints how do we know that the Saint we are following is actually a Saint and not something else?

Seriously. If I go to Satsang and everyone says Babaji is a Saint, how do I know they know it is true? Maybe some of them are Saints and know Babaji is a Saint but since I am not a Saint how do I know that they are Saints who know that Babaji is a Saint? I could spend my whole life trying to become a Saint so I can know if Babaji is a Saint and then when I become a Saint I might see Babaji is not a Saint or, worse, I could go through life trying to become a Saint and never become one to find out whether Babaji is a Saint or not, thus never knowing if the whole thing was a waste of effort? I could have spent my whole life following a Saint who isn't a Saint and never have known it. But at least I thought so. I guess that's a good thing. Or is it?

Don't bother to answer because there is no answer. You either have faith that he's a Saint or you don't.

[One Initiated]

hello tucson,

I am certainly not being bothered in replying. But would surely like to present my opinions.

Did you realise in 10 lines of para there is 12 times "I" in it !!
An old saying:
A person asked Gautam Budh: "I want happiness"
Gautam Budh replied: "Remove the 'I' and the 'want'"

Coming back to your point:

The logical expression you've presented is:
1 + 1 = 2
Spirituality is about:
1 + 1 = 1

For a moment, leave the concern to be able to realise a Saint.
Let's consider realising the taste of a Pea seed.

To whatever extent we try to guide and teach and do best of our effort to tell the taste of a pea seed to someone who has not yet tasted it in his/her life. Can we tell how does a pea seed taste to that person ?
Answer is No. Because a pea seed tastes like a pea seed.
He will never be able to know the taste unless he himself eat the pea seed.
he can be in argument with others or he can either go on discussing for his whole life about not been able to get to a conclusive decision on how does the pea seed taste like ?
Or, he can just pump in efforts, earn some money and get himself the seed and taste it.

Naturally the efforts required to earn a pea seed and the Shabd are not at all comparable.

tucson, surely not everyone in satsang who says Babaji are saint means they are saint themselves. It's the love inside their heart which they have felt in the presence of the saint that they bow in front of their Master with love and no one needs to give them a proof about their Master and there is one reason for that is: Love.
The disciples feels Love in their heart and neither they need to prove it and neither they are looking for any proof.
The one you Love, you situate them at the highest possible position in your knowledge. Saints are those who reach the highest realms and thus the disciples full of Love for the Masters calls them Saints. It's that eternal Love doing the tricks. The eternal bliss is no where except in the feet of the Master. I wish I had better way to tell you what does it feel like when you feel His Love. It's just got one language, the language of tears. I believe no one can explain that feeling but by the grace of their Master, everyone can feel it.

However, becoming a Saint is really not even a lifetime's work, may take several lives. May take years and years of meditation in the higher realms.
By saying that "We can't realise a Saint without becoming a saint" truly means that to know the Kingdom of the Saint, one needs to be a Saint. But, one can surely start receiving lots and lots and lots of Love just by starting the journey and even slightest of the progress on The Path is going to fill our hearts with Love.

We won't dare to store cotton in a room where there is even a slightest of the spark in any of the corner.
If there is a slightest hatred inside the heart, there can not by anything which may be called Love. Love won't seep in the heart which has slightest of the hatred.
To realise anything and everything, Love required. And to realise Love, lots of efforts and sacrifices required.

Even if we consider the worst possible case: The Master is not a Saint and We won't even become a Saint.
The great teachings they teach to live on, being compassionate to every single being in the universe by staying away from non-vegetarian food. Living on this and all the ethical teachings is a great clean way to lead the life itself.
In all other cases you mentioned, it's a win win situation and motivates us that The Path is worth trying for. If we miss it, it's a miss of a lifetime opportunity.

Wish lots of time in the increasing sound of Shabd to all the believers.

"Guru meri pooja, guru govind"
"Guru mera paar-brahm, guru bhagwant"
- Guru Arjun Dev Ji Maharaj.

meaning:
My Master is my worship. My Master is the Preserver of the world.
My Master is my Paar Brahm. My Master is my God.

regards,
One Initiated

[tucson]

One Initiated, you said,

"Did you realise in 10 lines of para there is 12 times "I" in it !!"

--I didn't want to make it personal towards you so I chose "I" instead of "you". It was necessary to use some kind of pronoun. I guess I could have used "seeker", "dude", or "stockbroker", etc. Besides, it is always "I" who seeks liberation. "I" is very important. Without "I" masters would be out of business. "I" is at the heart of the matter here. A big problem.

You used the analogy of a "pea seed" for spiritual knowledge or truth-God. My unanswerable question is how do we know Babaji knows the taste of a pea seed or is in fact a pea seed? Maybe what he really knows is the taste of corn and is in fact a kernel of corn.

It would trouble a seeker if after a lifetime of devotion and meditation he/she still didn't know if Babaji is a pea or not even though Babaji says not to worry because it may take several more lifetimes to find out if he really is a pea. What if after all those lifetimes the seeker finds out Babaji was a kernel of corn? Damn! Corn has less protein than peas and is not as nutritious.

It is my opinion that the love we feel in the presence of a "Master" is simply our love reflected back at us. It is the love we already have within us. Once that love is recognized we experience it in the presence of not just the Master but in everyone, even the used car salesman (especially if he gives us a really good deal).

Or, in the worst case, it is the love of delusion and selfishness because we love the Master because we think he is a pea (even though he is actually a kernel of corn) and can turn us into peas so that we can be happy as peas in a pod forever. Instead, we get to be a kernel of corn on a cob. And everyone knows they aren't as happy as peas in a pod.

You say, "Even if we consider the worst possible case: The Master is not a Saint and We won't even become a Saint." You say that it is all good because you learn virtuous behavior and how to live a clean life and it is a great opportunity not to be missed just in case you really can become a pea by following the Master who may, unfortunately, really be a kernel of corn.

This could be a colossal waste of a precious lifetime if, because of devotion to a kernel of corn, you missed the opportunity to devote yourself to a pea who happened to be walking by at the same moment as the kernel of corn.

[One Initiated]

Yeah, and not so surprising that by disregarding each and every possibility and keeping even the worst and the best cases unconsidered at all and not doing anything and eating the meat and keeping our heart full of hatred, we are already wasting a precious lifetime.

Sure thing, the Love is already within us. I totally in agreement with you here.
And just like our Master, each and every single human being is in fact a God in human form, but just in an unrealised form.
Masters are realised form of God and the Love.
They help us invoking our own love from within us and help us becoming them i.e. realised God in human form.

And definitely my perspective here is not that Babaji will only be the Master for everyone and/or they are the only Perfect Master in the current world.
But yeah, the fact is that if someone wants to be an explorer of the spiritual path, a True Living Master is required and one's first and foremost task should be to search for that Master. Certainly, if someone is not getting sure of a Master, the job should remain alive and the explorer should keep on doing his search unless he finds Him. Because one thing is sure that without the Master, nothing is going to happen.
Undoubtedly, not a single seeker/explorer is going to first realise the Master and then follow Him. It's exactly the reverse process.
But then the question is how to know whom to follow and who is one's Master ?
One and only one way is to feel the Love in the presence of the Master. Because this is what he's continuously going to do with us.
i.e. Invoking our own Love from within ourselves.
And this is all He is going to teach us, to meditate and be able to invoke the Love from within us.

I can not resist myself to end this response with a marvellous quote by Soami Ji Maharaj:

"Guru he ghat bhed lakahaya, Guru he sunn shikhar chadhaya ||
Mahasunn bhi Guru dikhlai, Guru bhanvargufa darsai ||
Guru sattlok pahunchaya, Guru alakh agam parsaya ||
Guru he sab bhed bakhana, Guru se RadhaSoami jana || "

meaning:
Only Master helped at each and every step of the journey of inner realms.

regards,
One Initiated

[tucson]

Regards to One Initiated. I think we are obviously drawn to a religion, guru or path by our conditioning, background, circumstances and by our state of mind. It may not be our choice as those things are shaped by forces we have yet to understand. May your path continue to prove to be the right one for you. Despite my doubts, why should I not wish the best for any sincere, good-intentioned person?

[One Initiated]

So much Love to you, tucson.
And so much Love to Brian, Jesse, Nietzsche, cc, Lila, Sita, Enlighten One and everyone who posts on this blog and every other one who doesn't.

regards,
One Initiated

[Enlighten One]

Peace on Earth and Goodwill(Mankind) I have learnt on this post from - One Initiated,Tuscson, Brian,Jesse,Nietzche,cc,Lila and others you are remarkable humans in your thinking to describe that love and helping each other in the world we live in is ultimate goal. A true satsang participation for all on this post whether your rich or poor or of any nationality all are equal and have respect to there view points.

[june schlebusch]

A Saint Baba Ji might indeed be, but G D as you say One Initiated, most definitely NOT...I was intiated for 50 years befor I realized that...Peace and Blessings to all.

[Nietzsche]

I wonder what people would do in sach kand all day? Allways happy, smoke pot? :)

[Nietzsche]

It might be that people wo don't face their problems and escape to meditation superiority have to come back and solve their chalenges while people that do not run away but serve others in a genuine way move on...

[Tanvee]

One initiated: thank you for your comment. Most certainly, I haven't weighed each word of my RSSB rant but surely it is venting out some perceptions, judgements and feelings that have arisen in me because of being forced to convert, adhere, respect etc.
- conflict cannot survive without participation
- the world reflects what we feel
- we tend to color life with our biases, experiences and insecurities
- when we give love, love is all that comes back
- Simran, shabad, satsang and meditate
- when you are ready, guru appears

So, I am quite in agreement at the thought level with these words and may have not reached a stage where I do live by them. This forum for me is a vent, in no way intended to take away ardent followers of guruji. In the same breath I am not actively looking for people who can convince me to rethink the whole RSSB gurudom.
I am sure if you did choose to get initiated, you did so out of your own choosing. A journey that felt true to your heart and may be you were quite spiritually ready for it. But everyone lives his own experiences and that's the space I need too. For now, I have honestly just finished an active battle of respecting my choice of not wanting a guru or being forced to take on a guru.

As a seeker, I continue my journey. Don't know if I will ever end up with a guru but that isn't psyching me a whole lot. But in this journey of spirituality I do feel some things that we could give to people even if they don't choose to take up our path of spirituality, which I have been denied at a human level.

- love for a human being who may not be a RSSB
- respecting other peoples journey, howsoever spiritually superior you find yours to be
- spiritual humility
- not being a guruji's sales man.
- there is a lot of talking the good talk but I do see the walking completely missing. Almost akin to the feeling of constantly reading good books, good words and without any traction in our own lives, we think the words have become us and we have become good. What I like to call mental masturbation or constant state of orgasmic paralysis.

Sorry, I am not enlightened and thus may not have the power to see the enlightenment in my immediate family or the other people talking/ wanting to make sense to me. But I am happy to know the things I will/ should never do to another human being, even if I am not branded enlightened. And I haven't reached a point where I can give love to a rapist, terrorist, a corrupt politician and all the abusive husbands out there. So, no love to them and no love to all those who push me to make choices.

And if at all in this seeking journey, I feel within me a unstoppable fountain of love, I shall keep the world informed. For now, from my fuming furious memory, yours truly, Tanvee

[observer]

"So, no love to them and no love to all those who push me to make choices."

Tanvee, its easy to see your side of this story, of being pushed into something that should be your choice.

Once again, we see the fault in the followers of Sant Mat. The problem is that satsangis, myself included, are really not very good examples. Its such a difficult path in many respects and this trying to be good, kind, loving, putting in effort to meditate etc is too much pressure to put on ourselves. So we then compensate by having a feeling of specialness because what else do we have. If we are aware of our behaviour we can see our faults and failings and its really quite miserable and lonely walking on this path.

So, as people always do, most satsangis gather together in a kind of clannish manner because thats all they really have. We all need to have a sense of belonging. Some of us keep to ourselves and its not easy being different and then I guess that feeling of being special is a way of kind of compensating and hoping that it will take time but we will eventually arrive, even if that arrival is merely a better mental attitude towards life.

A satsangi family would be a different environment for me and they seem to be bossy and demanding in wanting you to join Sant Mat. Is this the RSSB group?

If you could see their position from another point of view perhaps? That it could even be some kind of act of kindness that they so urgently want you to join? Is it to gather you into their family so that you belong? Or maybe it is some kind of fear for you if you are not initiated?

If I was in your position I would concentrate on good communication and really try to find out where they are coming from, what is lying underneath the surface of their demanding ways, and communicate very clearly to them just how you feel.

Having said all that there must be some really good examples besides the Master, satsangis who are making progress with their meditation and have love, kindness, compassion etc .

Sorry about the preachiness - just my thoughts.

[a believer in truth]

RSSB Australia wants to build a large centre, yet the Congregation have been told not to go to the site in Melbourne it was announced which they have purchased for them. This is so not to disturb the community yet!! and NOT to make it hard to get planning permits passed by council local governments, plus they don't want the community see a mass of overseas Indians in the area - till they have planning permits. Can you believe it! I understand the Chairman is an Indian guy called Pradeep - lives in Melbourne, but to get this over the line for planning permits they have replaced him on paper by "white " person Michael Cooke - who lives in Perth so not to show suspicion of intent when doing council negotiations to get planning rights.
Mr Allchin who is he I asked? When questioning some of the congregation so to check out a few weeks ago, no one knows of him in Melbourne! And the Indian people I asked, don't know fully of the planning stages they are at.
One person said to me they want white people to be the front for this organization in Melbourne, The Australian resident community in the Green Belt area, haven't seen the scenes' I saw at their current location: Melbourne Girl College - Yarra boulevard in Richmond Melbourne on Sundays in parking congestion that is caused and parking on nature strips foot paths and residential streets where families are sleeping still on early Sunday mornings from 8:30am till 11 am.
Indian people in yellow coats standing at the side of the roads directing traffic, I don’t think they have permits to do so!
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE ARTICLES BELOW, DOES THIS HAPPEN IN OTHER COUTRIES?
See this article.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/east/chirnside-park-development-raises-concerns-with-community/story-fngnvlxu-1227108300223
Are they right to object!

[New Seeker]

Some people in Melbourne aren't thrilled about part of the city's green space being turned into a RSSB religious center - See more at:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/east/rssb-australia-chirnside-park-place-of-worship-proposal-attracts-more-than-400-objections/story-fngnvlxu-1227138633009

The Guru has requested this purchase of land and farming to be setup, so by putting in a lot of farming activity, like the olive grove and market gardens,and people can do free seva!

[Mike Williams]

I blame Charan for the greatest distortion
of Indian GURU history I have ever seen.

AND HE READ ALL THE BOOKS BEFORE THEY WERE
PRINTED BY BEAS OWN ADMISSION AND KNEW THEY WERE LIES.

I consider him one of the greatest fraudsters
and scam artists of all time.

LIE AFTER LIE AFTER LIE.

I can find nothing honest in him.

[Mike Williams]

Let me make it clear. If you were initiated
by Charan you were a fool. If you believed
his theory, or history, you were a dupe.

This guy dished out so much horsecrap on
a naive public that it could feed a flock
of billygoats till the Mahayuga.

Willie Sutton could only stand in awe
of this shyster.

Al Capone could only marvel at making money
from pure bullshit. Money from thin air.
(At least Al gave you a bottle of beer.)

Charan used proxy idiots to write his books.
These people were so stupid they couldn't
tie their shoelaces with a magnifying glass.
An old lawyers trick, (of which he was a barrister, to insulate himself.)

The magnitude of deceit, ruined lives,
broken promises, this man left behind
is truly one of the classics of gangsterism.

Nothing he told you was the truth.

Satan is an innocent pixie compared to
this snake oil salesman.

Charan was a gypsy. Pure and simple.

A flat out sociopath. He screwed you and
he screwed the world.

[the9thGate]

Amen Mike!

[Nietzsche]

Great Mike. Most people don't dare to speak as you do. I appreciate the truth more than a sweat ly.

You know another thing that is funny. I think you said tomatoes helped to cure cancer for you. Well guess what statistics show that people with mental problems like I used to have seldom have cancer. And now the second part. I stopped with tomatoes, potatoes and other nightshade family fruits and all anxiety and paranoid has disappeared. It seems that I am allergic to them. I guess the poison in tomatoes that kills cancer cells also ruins minds.
So I got a little bit angry as RSSB forbids marijuana. They make an absolute bullshit choice on what food to forbid and Gurinder himself gets cancer. When do they see that food requires much more study than 4 simple rules especially because marijuana might be a plant that helps a lot against disease.
Anyway I hope he will rot in hell for lying to people and withholding cures that work and dying himself of cancer. The fucker!

[lola]

Gurinder was asked for marijuana and was open about it as a cure.
Nietzche you are saying all about yourself as wishing to other people dead and disease..

[Nietzsche]

I am not lying or misleading. I just am angree at the sociopath that is. You seem to me a deluded person that can't even understand what I am saying. Your holy man is fucking you in all places.

[Nietzsche]

Start to become an active person again and look for real answers to the problems you need him for. That will make you feel better and you don't have to cry about the sick world so much but handle it.

[Nietzsche]

Let me make it clearer.
When you have a broken bone is meditation or suffering your karma going to solve it? No off cause. Now when you have a mental problem like anxiety or depression is meditation going to solve it?
Now the final step. Do you need spiritual escape whe. You don't have a mental problem? What for?

[Nietzsche]

What really happens is that you have a problem with the world. You feel bad or lonely or depressed or abondened etc. You think by removing the world you will not face the problem anymore. But the problem is a lesson to you. If someone could take away the world you would bring the problem to the new world. It is like asking someone to bring the sunlight back while you are wearing sunglases. You should take of the glases and realise the problem is gone.

[Nietzsche]

In RSSB the metaphor of the prison is used often and they say when you search for a better health you are making it a golden prison. But if you use the metaphor of the school they are in fact saying to put fingers in your ears and close your eyes while you need to learn a lesson. That way it will take you much longer. ;)

[One Initiated]

Dear Mike and Nietzsche,

It's like you had a suffering, you went to the doctor, he gave you medicine and it didn't work for you.
Mainly for two reasons:
-> You kept the medicine in your closet and didn't even looked at it
-> You didn't refrain yourself from the things which have altered the effect of the medicine.

And you are shouting to the world that the doctor is a cheat.

Just like you have no proof that SantMat is wrong (or right in your case).
You have no proof that you took the medicines and followed the procedures thoroughly.

If you meditated righteously and didn't get anything in your life, how come there are so so many people who claims unlike you, that they received everything. Why would someone believe in your negativity than the others' positivity?
Also, it's clearly observable that those who have received the bliss from their Masters, looks, sounds and feels much much more positive that the others.

And the fact is there are many more successful initiates that the failed ones.

We just see the world the way we are. It's super easy to tell others about the sunglasses/shades whereas the whole world is wearing them, the teller and the listener, the writer and the reader.
Just that who happens to tell this, thinks proudly that they themselves are purest of the pure.

Just like that I have a faulty mind, I am discussing here the faults in yours. Guess we are all faulty.
Faults are ok, hatred not at all !
With the hatred in your heart, the only one in the universe who will be in loss is just you.

BUT, I trust and Love the Masters (with my accepted faults) and HE gives me the bliss.

Maharaj Charan Singh Ji were one of the greatest Saint this earth has received by the grace of The One.
For me, there is no doubt in this, because I've a proof that I've had received so much bliss from HIM. Surely, I can not prove that proof in front of anyone.

Wish you guys lots and lots and lots of Love.

regards,
One Initiated

[lola]

First of all i dont have any master and am not initiated into any path. You bombed out very hard attacks and you just showed what you are like.

[Brian Hines]

One Initiated, a few thoughts on your comment....

(1) You've heard of the placebo effect, right? People feel better after taking sugar pills with no active ingredient. Likewise, people feel better after joining religions based on falsities. Christians do, Muslims do, Hindus do, and yes, believers in Sant Mat/RSSB do. Feeling something is subjective; it doesn't point to objective reality. A feeling of bliss can come from many different sources, and is very subjective.

(2) What is the difference between a "successful" and "failed" initiate? Please define. How do you distinguish them? Do you mean that a successful initiate continues to believe in the dogma he/she has been taught, while a failed initiate doesn't? If so, what if the dogma isn't true? Wouldn't the "failed" initiate then become the "successful" initiate, having come closer to truth?

(3) What makes you think people commenting on this blog, including me, didn't take the "medicine" correctly? As I've noted before...

For 35 years I meditated as instructed for 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours. I followed the other requirements, including a vegetarian diet, no alcohol or drugs, etc. I did a lot of "seva" (volunteer work) at various levels of the RSSB organization, including serving as our local sangat secretary for many years, writing books, and giving frequent talks. All at my own expense, of course. I felt deep devotion toward my guru and went to India to see him in 1977 for two weeks.

In short, I took my meditation medicine as instructed. I got a lot of benefits from it. I just never experienced many, or most, of the things that the Sant Mat philosophy says should be experienced at some point. So am I a failure? Or did I conduct the experiment of meditation correctly and properly observed/reported on the results that I got?

Again, you seem to be mistaking your feeling of bliss with objectively true statements about reality.

Don't you realize that people feel bliss when using heroin, watching a Lady Gaga concert, walking in nature, having sex, drinking alcohol, volunteering at a homeless shelter, and in countless other ways? Do you really believe that only YOUR way of feeling bliss is valid?

If so, you should consider changing your belief.

[Mike Williams]

The five names are Luciferian in its forms.
Surat shabda yoga is kundalini yoga with all
its sights and sounds at each chakra.

Is there any surprise that everything we
learned was a lie ?

You will come away empty handed. The same
way you started... no matter how much you
think you have progressed.

Not even enlightenment will help you if you
follow other groups than RS.

If all these groups are wrong ... then the
answer must be Something Else we have not
discovered yet and may not know exists.

Logic itself is a trap. Logic is only
good inside the contained box one finds
oneself in.

We must go outside the box.

[tucson]

One Intiated,

I think Brian's comment above is worth considering.

You said:

"BUT, I trust and Love the Masters (with my accepted faults) and HE gives me the bliss."

--First, the bad news. In my opinion, the guru, Charan, Gurinder or whoever, does not have the power to give you bliss.

The good news is that the bliss you feel comes from within you. It IS you. The love and peace you feel is INNATE within you and available when you are in a receptive state, and this state, in your case, is brought about by what you believe about the guru and what he supposedly is and can do for you. This catalyst, as pointed out by Brian, could be anything. A quiet moment in nature, a noisy moment at a family gathering, while working in your yard.

One time, for me, it was waking up, turning on the news and witnessing the 911 attacks. That was the most bizarre, evil thing I had ever seen. The concept of it was shocking. That someone actually conceived this diabolical act and pulled it off...flying commercial aircraft into the WTC and causing it to collapse with thousands trapped inside. What ?!?! I mean we know about Japanese Kamikaze pilots in WWII, but this?

This emotional shock sort of put me in an altered state. My usual, habitual thought patterns were pushed aside. Oddly, for me, this had a "spiritual" effect. As I went about my activities I experienced a heightened awareness. My "self" seemed to have merged with everything. Checking out at the store, the clerk was me and I was her. There was this peace. My truck seemed to go down the road on its own. Like I wasn't really driving, yet somehow was.

Of course I am not you and have no way of knowing what you know or feel. This is just my guess and opinion based upon my experience with the same guru and life in general.

YOU are the Master, not him.

[Nietzsche]

A short comment on the medication and why the 'it is all you' pissed me of.
The medication that is subscribed in my case has a big chance of causing side effects in the kidneys and in the liver and in the digestion system. Apart from that there has been a study called 'ill in America' by Whitaker that showed that America did not do better with medication than the third world did without. Foster has published a great work on comparing alternative science all through the world with regular medication and the results can open your eyes to Hoffer that used food therapy and vitamins to cure 90% of his patients. And yes it works far beyond placebo.
Well if I listened to the master and took my medication and meditation where would I have ended up? Probable some side deseases and amputated feelings. I did not and where did I end up? I feel good and am healthy and am lucky that I survived a desease that killed in our familly. The first in generations.
So did I do all that? Yes I did all that. I abandonned RSSB did not follow the medication or meditation path and ended up not rebelling against my fellow being that I do not see as prison guards.
I love my fellow being be they jewish, RSSB or whatever. No need to select my company to RSSB only.
Am I wrong did I miss the escape door?
I think the whole rebellion against the world resembles the rebellion of satan. I wonder who is f* in the end.

[Mike Williams]

Your right Nietzsche,
It turned out I never had prostate cancer on
followup tests. Just high PSA. The biopsies
confirmed.

I spent hundreds of hours studying clinical
trials and taking high powered extracts before
the biopsy.

What I learned was shocking. They can cure
most cancers now. Right now. They know exactly
what the cures are.

But, since they come from natural plants, the
drug companies can't patent them and the doctors
are not allowed to prescribe them to you.

I still take these every day, even though I don't have cancer.

All they have to do is give the population
a pill or two a day and it will wipe out
most cancers and heart diseases. Extend life
by 10 years on average.

People should not drink cow milk. They should use almond milk. Eggs are the death in a shell.
Eating eggs was shown to be the number one
killer of humans for very many reasons.

I now drink vegetable juice. 2 beers a day
is recommended. Red wine is great.

Cucumin, amla, resveratrol, magnesium, Vit K
are sensational.

A few nuts a day will stop you from dying of a heart attack 50% of the time. Any nuts are
fantastic, even bottled peanut butter.

Chicken is the worst of all meats.

I eat fake cheese now. My vegan diet
is radically different with a few simple
changes. I am a vegan since early 70's.

Latest study shows coffee cuts dementia and
you have 50% less chance of getting liver cancer with 2 to 3 cups a day.

I smoke, but do not inhale, as I am asthmatic.
I drink 8% beer every morning at 5 AM at the park, while my dog watches.

I watch old episodes of Combat, Untouchables,
Have Gun Will Travel.

I carry a box cutter and stun guns when I visit
my friend on the riverbank as there have been a few murders there. My friend was brutally attacked in his sleep and left him with a shattered hand and huge cuts in his forehead.
He is homeless.

He believes in non violence. I was bit on the forearm by a mother coyote at 2 AM one morning.

Was feeding the baby cheese and didn't see the mother in the dark.

[june schlebusch]

For all intiates..You are right..Sant Mat is the Crème dela Crème of all paths, nothing else would have held me captive for so long..He came like a comet, blazing his trail, and oh what a journey he took me on...I lost my individuality, ruined my childrens lives and very nearly lost my sanity...Beware be very aware...He is The Bright and Shining Morning Star.

[Mike Williams]

June,
That was a very interesting post. Could
you fill in who initiated you and what your
experiences were.

The Shinning Star is Lucifer...angel of light.
Master of deceit. Am I correct ?

[Nietzsche]

Hi Mike, absolutely true. I found similar facts about the pharmaceutical industry.

I also use 2x500mg B3 100mg B6, B complex, Selenium and Omega3.

Much food related stuff is highly individual. I had to do a sort of exclusion diet to find out what I had to exclude. The B3 is a natural tranquilliser.

[the9thGate]

June that was beautifully said.

[tucson]

Mike wrote: " I was bit on the forearm by a mother coyote at 2 AM one morning...Was feeding the baby cheese and didn't see the mother in the dark."

--Probably because you were feeding the baby "fake" cheese.

I wonder why you think eggs and chicken are such bad things to eat. Was Charan really onto something? Eggs, the #1 killer of humans for "very many reasons"?

I agree research shows nuts and resveratrol to be highly beneficial.

[Mike Williams]

Hi Nietzsche and tucson,

Reason why vegans only live as long as meat
eaters in 15 year clinical trial. Lack of
omega 3. Which can be solved by simple supplement.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2386667/

Eggs ? There are tons of studies on eggs. 1/2 egg screws
your body up for a week. Bacteria, cancer, heart disease..

Go to above web site. Punch in chicken for example
and read clinical studies.

They already know the cures. But, they cannot be patented
because they come as extracts from natural plants and
organisms.

These cures are far better than prescription drugs and
have no side effects.

Doctors cannot prescribe because a formal 10 year study
costs a billion dollars to get the drug approved.

Curcumin is considered the greatest discovery for all
kinds of diseases. It comes from Indian curry.
Also from India, the Indian gooseberry, called AMLA
as extract, is spectacular for curing all
kinds of diseases.

I am spending these days posting on the collapse of the fiat
monetary system and gold (I don't like silver). I am debunking
many shysters in the field of finance to help this new generation
of youngsters.

I have a B.S. in Business Accounting and am also a real estate broker
for 33 years.

The new laws have bank bail ins, the FDIC will no longer apply,
as they have no money. The insurance on stocks is also
a scam.

I am trying to tell people to stay away from all electronic assets
and buy a house and gold. 80% house....20% gold. Storage food, etc.

If you have money in a bank take it out and put in your safe at home.
Same with gold.

I expect within 5 years the fiat currencies of the world will
collapse. The same central bank owners control 98% of all countries
banking and currencies. It will be a world wide event.

Study Argentina to see what will happen.

Imagine the entire world in this situation. One of the most remarkable
documetaries ever seen. The New World Order has no heart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsqa-YHE36A

[Nietzsche]

While we are on the food topic. It might be that RSSB is so difficult to escape because of the fluor that is in our toothpaste and in our water. It is in our water even if it is not added as it is dumped by industry.
Fluor makes your iq get lower. Fluor makes you a person incapable of questioning autority.
Old research showed it to be beneficial for the tooth but that research has been questioned many times but still dentists do not know the scientific publications on other area's.
It is an incredible scam of using a wasteproduct to poison the population. Guess what when they plot the results of fluor poisoning it turn out black Americans suffer far more thatn white Americans so do other minority groups. Now how is that possible you think.

Personally I found that brown spots on my teeth disappear after using different tootpaste. I am able to think more clearly too.

watch this video or google fluor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3ARhMPVu-A&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[june schlebusch]

Yes Mike that is whom I perceive him to be...I was 19 when I had just smoked a joint, sitting on my stoep, it was 5am, Venus was high in the sky, I looked up and started meditating, I felt it come down, the currents then came up my spine, I resisted, as I felt it was wrong, the currents then went out the left side of my brain...I knew I was in big trouble..I had heard about the Path, so I sought intiation, I did not know I was walking into the lions den..That is how it happened.

[Mike Williams]

Hi June and Nietzsche,

June, these people here think Lucifer
funny idea.

Yet, Radhasoami admits itself the devil
exists and controls the lower planes.

The hallmark of the great beast can be
easily seen.

A child can see it. Meditating his method
will not advance a person one iota. If you
watch a Walt Disney fairy tale movie and
study it closely.... are you more advanced ?

Bambi, Donald Duck, Goofy, Snow White are
all people will find.

Yet, they take great delight in their cartoons.

They are becoming spiritually advanced.

Can anyone see the insanity here ?

Nietzsche,
The drug industry actually tried to ban
herbs and vitamins. Why ? Because they work.

Look at Gurinder. His latest applications to the FDA were denied. They are now suing the FDA.

The impurities in his products are a disgrace
and he has been often cited.

His proxy idiots...that is... whom are a front for him.

No one asks the historical question... how can
you go from Sawan, a sugar farmer, to a billionaire family in one generation ?

[tucson]

Hello Mike,

I think that article was based on an old premise/hypothesis that fat, saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for you. This has largely been debunked by current science. Although breakfast cereal was mentioned, the study did not take into consideration the amount of flour and bread products that were eaten by the aboriginal study group. These products are now being recognized as the real culprits in heart disease, diabetes, cancer, even dementia and Alzheimer's, and not dietary fat and cholesterol as has been promulgated by believers in the "fat hypothesis" that resulted from studies done 60 years ago.

Surprise!! The staff of life may be the staff of death.

This is too involved and technical to go into here. An interesting book published in the last year or so called "Grain Brain" is quite good for getting up to speed on what researchers now know. However, high carbohydrate vegans (grain, potatoes, even fruit) will not be happy with the science presented therein.

I am not happy about this because I love bread. However, I have been cutting down on bread consumption since about '96-'97 to about two or three loaves a day ;) which has been beneficial for me.

Curcumin (turmeric) appears to be highly beneficial as you say. As well as the Omega 3 fats and coconut oil!

[Mike Williams]

I have decided after about 20 years
of helping people, that I will no longer post on the internet.

Fate threw all this stuff in my lap, which I
did not want, but found myself in some instances
where I was the only person whom could help
in various areas of life.

Whatever I have owed my code of ethics is now
paid to humanity.

My duty is over.

I will say no more ... forever.

Goodby everyone.

[Lila]

Wow, interesting read, the haters versus the lovers.

[the9thGate]

Mike...please reconsider.

[june schlebusch]

Yes Mike I agree with 9th Gate, we need you, would you at least consider private communications with some of us? Brian has my permission to give you mine.

[Mike Williams]

Hi 9th and June,

You can contact me privately via Brian when ever you wish if you want to.

I have been through a lot in my life. I am so worn out right now. So, worn out.

So, I will leave it like this. If I can get enough rest and recover I will come back someday here.

There have been so many battles in my life.
For causes that are obscure to society, but
which were very important in my mind.

In many fields of life. There is too much
evil in this world. Really overwhelming.

The world has been hypnotised since birth.

People walk around in a trance, even the
highly intelligent. Even those whom think
they are no longer hypnotised are still
under a spell. Even those that think they
have done good are a danger and do not know.

Logic does not help people. Learning how
to dehypnotise people does.

Implanting new ideas into people that will
someday sprout up from no where within them.

They will then think the idea is their thought,
when in fact it was from a benefactor they cannot remember.

People do not so much need food and water...
as they do need new ideas.

New ideas free people. They are like little seeds.

So, when I feel better, I will come back if
I can.

May Something Else be with you. And , may you
think new thoughts you have never thought before.

[soki]

Yes June do that and after a few years you will again wake up disappointed.

[june schlebusch]

No soki I will not wake up disappointed...I'm 72 so not many years left..Mike and have many others here, been of tremendous help to me...WWithout their imput I would not have the peace I now have..Although being a catholic proberly appauls them I know they are enlightened anough to except that I arrived here thro much pain and suffering. I just took a different route.

[nto]

Mike....who is Balkan...who is Corso....I don't know. The ninth engraving was a forgery. Let's go find it. I am sorry this year has taken its toll.
Nietzche I empathise with your anxiety. I was diagnosed with depression. This year I have attempted suicide and prior to that I had a heart attack. Not how I wanted my early 30s to be but hey...It will make me a better person hopefully.
It was nice to read you all on the churchless site in hospital. Those celeb mags just bore me. My gratitude for making me think out of the box goes to you all.
Brian please forward me mikes details as per his consent.
Buckle up dorothy cos kansas is going bye bye!

[the9thGate]

Sorry...nto...is me the9theGate...bloody smartphones

[Nietzsche]

@nto might be gluten allergic. You might try if you are allergic. As I figured out the best way is to simple exclude gluten for a few days or longer. You will feel it soon enough. Thanks for sympathy there is not much sympathy received in my life. People completely ignore it and stay away or don't know what to do.

[june schlebusch]

Dear 9th gate please don't think about suicide...My father shot himself, he suffered from depression and was an alchoholic..He was also deeply confused about my mothers and my involved with the gurus..If it ever gets that bad please call me and we can talk..Corsos big battle was trying to slove the problem of who his companion was...There is lot about the symbolism of the 9th gate on google it might help if you read it, but I do find it a bit dark..St Teresa of Avila Interior Castle also speaks of the gates although she only mentions 7, but she is very uplifting..Why don't you give her try. You got nothing to loose. Much love to you dear brother.

[tucson]

FYI anyone who cares...The guru of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), Gurinder Singh, has apparently issued new edicts. This information comes to me from an active member (satsangi). I am not an active member so cannot verify. I hope I have this straight.

1) Tobacco use is now forbidden.

(Nisargadatta, one of the more respected sages of modern times, was a smoker. But, since he was a non-dual Upanishadic Tantric Nath type, I guess he would be viewed as an agent of Kal, the Negative Power. So his activities would be suspect in any case.)

2) Medical marijuana is forbidden even if prescribed by a doctor.

This comes as no surprise.

3) Pregnant women may not be initiated after the fourth month of pregnancy.

What?

This is in addition to other forbidden things such as eggs, wine coolers, unprescribed oxycodone, and shacking up with ones girl/boy friend.

As far as I know, masturbation is still permitted. At least there has not been a formal edict issued prohibiting it. Perhaps this topic is viewed as unseemly by the guru. Or, it is viewed as an act so obvious in its lustful depravity that it need not be mentioned. However, its practice could well be a barrier to esoteric success for unmarried devotees (or unhappily married devotees), the gravity of which may not be readily apparent to them. Perhaps this issue could be raised to the Satguru and settled once and for all.

Masturbators, you better not ask.

[Simran]

Dear Friends,
Why we are arguing here on this social site? If the one which we follow is right, there is no need of proving that to world. People will think only what they want to think. We can not change someone's thought.
I was among those who never believed in these Gurus & their teachings, although my family is indulged into this practice from last many years. I used to go to satsangs just for time pass & for making my parents happy.
But suddenly i felt something different in satsang. Something very soothing & peaceful. As soon as i saw Babaji sitting in satsang, i felt vibration in my body. Some kind of current passed by. Tears started rolling over my cheeks. I was just staring on babajis face without blinking my eyes for a second. The feeling which i had that time can not be explained in words. On that day, i realized that he is not a normal human being. He is different.
In Guru Granth Sahib ji, it is written

Sant ki ninda naanka bahur bahur avtar.

That means, we should not speak anything against of any saint. If we do or not follow them it is our decision.

[Brian Hines]

Simran, I hope you realize that everybody has feelings that can't be expressed in words.

Believe me, people who go to a Lady Gaga concert feel almost exactly the same way about her as you felt about your guru.

Wonderful feelings are wonderful. They just don't prove anything about someone's divinity or lack thereof.

[Juan]

Masturbation is permitted to avoid any sex scandals. Of course the practice is a big barrier to esoteric success, but by the grace of Almighty Babaji it will not be a hindrance, if the disciple is also repeating the five holy names during the practice.

[cc]

Masturbation is permitted...if the disciple is also repeating the five holy names during the practice.

Audibly, so as to sound more like devotion than exertion.

[Johny Stratchitello]

Juan you need a doctor

[New Seeker]

Simran, those are your emotional feelings you describe, because of the way the atmosphere of silence created in the seating hall's, and the way they have special effects lighting for the stage and and sound effects for the stage, to where the Master is going to be seated and plus the special chosen singers for there beautiful voices so they resonate in singing shabds. I have seen sevardar's being so helpful and helping the old and using wheel chairs to seat them, when Baba Ji's attending, but outside in the real world, they would not help any person or family members who are sick or elderly. If you had reached the 3rd eye, then that may be a different matter, Did you see anyone unconscious, and left the physical and go within whilst in the presence of saints?
See what the Australian Community who are peace loving, help mankind in the human services, in charity work, hospital fund raising activities and disaster relieves how they can see through the goings on:
Just see the news head lines of "Sant Rampal" in jail. Remember everyone has a right to make his or her choice, and thoughts on the subject!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/east/plan-to-develop-green-wedge-property-in-chirnside-park-for-worship-opposed-by-council-officers/story-fngnvlxu-1227149559983

[Preity]

In Guru Granth Sahib ji, it is written Sant ki ninda naanka bahur bahur avtar. That means, we should not speak anything against of any saint. If we do or not follow them it is our decision. - See more at: http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2014/10/more-weird-news-from-the-world-of-radha-soami-satsang-beas.html#sthash.gWH8cCoX.dpuf

Simran, it is not "ninda" or speaking bad of someone, if we don't consider him a saint. If Gurinder is your saint, that doesn't mean he is a saint in everyone else's eyes. Gurinder is just as human as we are, other than being a millionaire and so called "God in human form".
They say, he will come to save you at the time of death. Has any satsangi ever come back from the dead and told you that "babaji" came to save him or her?

[New Seeker]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/east/yarra-ranges-council-rejects-plan-for-green-wedge-land-in-chirnside-park/story-fngnvlxu-1227151177301

[meyo]

Your master is a fool you follow a fool!

A fool you say?.. yes indeed..
But if this fool can show me a bliss of light, and the beauty of life.
Then who were you calling a fool?

A fool you say? ...yes indeed...

[x]

if this fool can show me a bliss of light, and the beauty of life, then who were you calling a fool?

You, of course!

If you can't find your own way and must depend on someone to show you light, bliss, beauty, and all the rest of it, you've fooled yourself into believing you're helpless and hopelessly dependent on the guru/leader/saint you pretend not to have chosen.

[meyo]

You are right if I think I am helpless. And and I need something outside of my self to feel safe again. Then a can be fooled.

But I dont feel helpless. Nor incomlpete. I think we are all sons of god. We are all masters. And even if my master is a imposter, and full of lies. I can see the bright side of it. Because when I accept there is truth in everything, even lies. So I can accept all the information and knollege.The expirience is real. And human learn from experience. Experiense is my real master(within). So even if the guru is a fool , I learned myself to learn from fools.

[x]

I accept there is truth in everything, even lies. So I can accept all the information and knollege.The expirience is real. And human learn from experience.

What a human learns from experience is demonstrated by what he says and does. You can learn to love lies, live them, and justify the behavior with cliches and platitudes.

[BilboBagginses]

About the masturbation issue, in Philosophy Of The Masters (I forget which volume), Baba Sawan Singh Ji clearly states that it is forbidden and is a severe hindrance on the spiritual path. That every drop of semen contains "God Source Energy" or something along those lines. A good satsangi is self-controlled in this department (or just a very good liar!).

About the tobacco issue, it's weird that they've banned it seeing as we have photographic evidence of Swami Ji from Agra smoking a hookah pipe. Double standards here? Maybe once you get to Swami Ji's level of spiritual development you can smoke all the hookah pipes that you want...? Or (obviously!) one of Kal's agents on Earth (Mike Williams?!) did a very good photoshop.

[Brother Chris]

Hello everyone who have (previously) posted their own concerned comments....(all kinds of comments) most of them showing frustration of not having experienced a truly and believable moment of spirituality such as described by the Saint Himself. And you ("I") never will exerience such a moment in our current lifetime! WHY? Because "Spirituality" starts with you ("I") ...not from the Saint. Let me explain simply if I may: UNLESS you have found the Truth FIRST by yourself about (your OWN "I"), how can you "go to a Saint" and ask Him to give it to you? "Man know thyself". Unless you know first who/what "I" you are in this very world, how can you expect to know about "God's Spirituality" such as offered by the Saint. Verily, verily, it all starts with YOU (with "I")...NOT with God NOR with the Saint. "I" can assure you that God and the Saint will NOT do your homework for you! And where do "I" start to realize myself? ONLY WHEN "I" AM WILLING TO DIE... "TO LIVE". It's so simple, yet unattainable for the strong intellects. QUOTE: ""Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:3.
My last word: throw away your intellect now and dare to take a step upward to be yourself like "I" before Death.
Bless you all!

[june schlebusch]

Thank you brother Chris.

[777]

HI Brother

"I" gave positive testimonies, many , , ,

But you are somewhat right

This is the sequence :
1)
By "some" reason and in one of the many physical formes the jivah engages in an act of Love
2)
next he receives birth with a 3rd eye Crown Chakra Combi
That might be the human form
3)
S/He is capable to hear the Sound, which is her/his Soul
but very soft and if not hindered by God's firewall against dirt
that meat ( hate ) is
4)
Depending of the circumstances She can associate ( be absorbed by this sounds and see for _self that THAT is what she is

So far no Guru

5)
If kal yuga circumstances arrive She needs help
6)
Help will arrive automatically by a Jeeva who already made progress
I wrote yesterday how that works to David Lane
7)
Attachments ( masturbation included ) will be replaced automatically by the sweetness of the Sound and because we recognized ourself in It
death will not occur

To say simple : just before the last physical breath you place consciousness totally in the Sound

Of course there is a little bit more to say , specially about extreme Love which was compared with orgasme by all mystics
without using the word

777

[x]

My last word: throw away your intellect now and dare to take a step upward...

When you "throw away your intellect", you're falling, not taking "a step upward" to anything. You've lost your footing and you're rapidly descending...right along with mass murdering jihadists, among other religious idiots who believe they're upward bound.

[777]

My last word: throw away your intellect now and dare to take a step upward... -

Not throw - - just use it for things it can do.
It would be a great blasphemy if IQ could do God

777

[Brother Chris]

Thank you all for your kind comments following my humble post.
"My last word: throw away your intellect now and dare to take a step upward...." obviously deserves some further clarification if I may.
1) Intellect is one of the many active functions of the mind.
2) Intellect alone will never make you see, understand or realize spiritual truths. At the most you (I) can become a "scholar", but without any inner realization.
3) Spirituality is all about inner realization, which is Self- realization. "The unexamined life is not worth living."
"Know your Self." - Socrates
Such a small "self" realization is the prerequisite before the Self-realization occuring in the eyes of God such as offered by the Saint.
Without (small s) self-realization there can't be no accsess to (capital S) Self-realization. In other words, if you don't know your petty "(I ) self" to start with, how can you expect to know your big "(I) Divine Self", such as offered by the Saint.
4) Meditation is meant to stop exercising the functions of the (I) mind...like when the wind is not blowing waves anymore on the lake, then only you (I) can see the bottom of it.
5) After you (I) have succeeded in quietening all the functions of your (I) mind (and there are many!) you (I) will be in full unhindered consciousness to realize the (small s) self in the dying process, while fully and clearly retaining all your mind's (I) functions.
Paul said, "I die daily." He couldn't have meant that he died daily physically. He couldn't have meant that he died spiritually. He had been made alive spiritually from spiritual death through the new birth when God saved him and His Spirit moved into Paul's spirit. - Bible

That's it brothers and sisters. I don't want to intellectualize the matter any further. Bless you all!

[Brother Chris]

Last words on the matter of DYING TO SELF.
This principle of dying to self is based upon the first of the teachings of The Saint. In John 12:24-25 The Saint (Jesus) said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone: but if it die, it brings forth much fruit. He that loves his life shall lose it; but he that hates his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal." Such are the Eternal Teachings of The Eternal Saint.
Paul said, "I die daily." The first time that one comes to The Saint in order to believe on Him is also the first time that one dies to oneself. No one can truly come to The Saint for salvation, unless it’s their intention to do His will. "They that lose their life shall find it."
Maharaji Charan Singh may not have "directly" mentioned First Corinthians 15:31. But He repeatively mentioned Paul and John. I suggest, for anyone interested to simply know more on this, to google your way to "First Corinthians 15:31" and select "BIBLE GEMS". It's a good reading "worth dying for!"
Above all I truly believe that no matter what, no matter what you practice hard/believe (or not), IT'S ONLY THE GRACE OF GOD THAT WILL TAKE YOU WHERE YOU BELONG.

Wish you all a good life journey.
God bless!

[parm]

What's wrong with being rich and enjoying material things?? If one reaches the highest potential of all material and spiritual things, isn't he or she already entitled to own anything and everything?? Isn't that the goal?? If I'm not going to break all the financial barriers even after being enlightened then what's the point?? I worked hard now I wanna get paid? I think it's very simple. I'm tired of begging and I wanna be a king?? Haha!! Maybe not The King but A King?? Wabading Namaste!! Jai ho!!

[Oh Holy Knight]

The "wrong" is not wealth, but greed or avarice. It is not what you have but what
one does with what one has, obviously.

There is also a distinct emphasis in the lore of the Christianity (esp. in Catholicism's "Vow of Poverty" for Priests, Nuns and Monks) in the appreciation of poverty. For example from the Bible Luke 18:18-23:

"A certain ruler asked him, 'Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' Jesus said to him, 'Why doyou call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: 'You shall not commit adultery; You shall not murder; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; Honor your father and mother.' He replied, 'I have kept all these since my youth.' When Jesus heard this, he said to him, 'There is still one thing lacking. Sell all that you own and distribute the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me. Jesus looked at him and said, 'How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!'" [Lk. 18:18-23]

In the Jaine and Buddhist lore the Special Adept/Saint/Turthankara is generaly born under "Auspicious" circumstances, in a household of political prominence and wealth, and THEN, when mature or thereafter chooses to lead the life of renunciation. In the Christian lore the adept/Saint/Savior, Jesus (with far fewer Saviors to choose from and take a clue from) was BORN in poverty. This would give hint that no less than Lord God Himself deemed such an inauguration (birth) in lowly material circumstances necessary and thereafter inspirational. So this, and later scripture, set an ideal. Such as Mathew 19:24:

"And again I say onto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, then for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Now that is pretty explicit.

Furthermore a guru is allegedly not "just" a regular person in the Sant tradition. They are supposedly spiritual adepts of the highest order, and through that give example of the overcoming of lust, anger, greed, attachment and pride. Hello?

Furthermore, in Catholic way anyhow, it is not just a personal vow of poverty through asceticism, but also a way of life for monks, nuns and priests in that property is not personally held, but communal.

Perhaps this is why the situation with incumbent guru at Beas is particularly difficult for those that hale from the Christian West (foundationally and idealistically Christian anyhow) to accept? It leads to a dissonance...whether seen or not.

[Jim Sutherland]

Dr. Randolph Stone, who wrote "The Mystic Bible" RSSB sells with Brian's Book, was sort of a later Julian Johnson type, i.e. A RSSB Initiate who liquidated Assets, moved to the Dera, and did Seva free with his "Polarity Therapy System.

http://www.digitaldrstone.org/v1b2c11.shtml

Here is the Link to his free Holistic healing System. Was he another RSSBer Lunitic,...or another normal Sant Mat Initiate , i.e. A struggling soul?

[Enlighten One]

From the main topic above:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/east/radha-soami-satsang-beas-developers-still-deciding-on-next-move/story-fngnvlxu-1227167068361
“So we are thinking that maybe going to court (VCAT) is not the right option, that we’re probably better off doing something that both the council and community would see as proper for that area.”

“We don’t want to upset the community; we want to be welcomed from day one.”

Mr Allchin said the board had considered leaving the area, but “it’s not our preferred option at the moment”.

Is this Satsangi of RSSB real Mr Allchin, saying "We don’t want to upset the community" They have already done that in Melbourne I see... what's next I wonder for Melbourne?

[Josephine Later]

Look at it this way-We evolved,and in the process seemed to need a "connection".Maybe religion/Cults did serve some obscure purpose in our evolution.
Yet why must we search for the "Divinity" which dwells in each person-in another human being(ie "Perfect Living Master")???
As a former satsangi-I watched another Satsangi go stark raving mad.That was "IT" for me-RS is just another politically motivated SCAM-v152

[sliv]

Vinny nobody is said to search in other the guru was there to initate you were about to sit but you cannot.so what ..that satsangi wasn't mad because of rs ..many of you really understand it wrongly or are stuck in one concept. But cannot sit stll that is when IQ comes to play with never-ending excuses..

[Holy]

Reality :
1> We are governed by what we "sense", "feel" which in turn is governed by our so called "intelligence"
2> Now imagine that our "intelligence" was limited, which means that what we are perceiving and sensing is limited. In other words there is more to reality than what our "intelligence" is telling us
3> This means we never get the "complete picture"

This is exactly what is happening. All debates and comments and the outcomes of our so called "intelligence" above is just a manifestation of our intelligence processing the information. Since it is limited, we never get to know the reality.

Experience the higher realities for yourself. All will be crystal clear. No more questions.Cannot be put in words. Words, mind and intelligence are too limited. Go and see for yourself !!

[Surjeet Singh]

I read every comment and it's counter. What I felt that majority of the people are in favor of Radha Soami or may be their member. As far as i know about them is, the one who started this Radha Soami thing or the chief of Radha Soami never gave his power or position to any of his disciple, in other word he didn't make his successor. Those in the past or in present are just fooling people with the name of spirituality. Guys if you really want to feel spirituality, just sit alone somewhere where there is no noise. If you chant "OM" or "WAHEGURU" or "Allah" depending upon your religion then you will definitely feel something and your body will become light.

Those who have mentioned Guru Arjun Dev ji shabad, let me tell you the word guru mentioned in the shabad doesn't relate to any human being. The one who created all of us and the nature is the true guru. People like you are the main strength of these guruji or babaji or maharaj ji for that matter. Meditate by taking name of the supreme power. They are the one who are giving you unlimited oxygen to breath not these man made gurus are giving you anything.

If you have left eating egg, chicken, meat and if you have left drinking liquor then naturally your body will become pure but for making your soul pure you have to follow whats actually written in our religious books (Granth). Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Gautam Budh was known to be the master of spituality, they doesn't have any guru who could teach them or showed them the right path. God has given this ability to everyone but some can find it naturally and make their lives worth living and some follow man made gurus or god and spoil their lives by following them.

I am from sikh family and i have faith in my religion alot and i do give respect to other religion. But i don't understand any religion made by these gurus and babas. I am sure those who are following these gurus or babas have never tried to read their own holy book. If you have ever done that, then you shouldn't have started following these gurus. If you stop following them their power will be finished and i am sure you will see this thing with your own eyes.

[Priti]

All satsangis are requested not to comment for such blogs.

Leave people with the belief they have for RSSB.

People commenting against us are innocent. But commenting against them, knowing that they dont know santmat, will add to our karmas.

Lets do Bhajan and Simran and reach sachkhand.

:)

Radhasoami

[777]

PRITI

You'r lending lines from official RSSB requests with that tone.

Why then you are an anonymous here

Many readers here ARE definitely
satsangis ( calling themselves EX-satsangis )

I agree that we shouldn't act against them
but FOR them
helping them with Love which yes will add to our good karma

777

[Ruhari Abdullah Sawan Singh]

Baba Ji asked me personally to write a book 2004 October session about Maori & Polynesian Spirituality,He mentioned in his tour of New Zealand in 1996- Polynesian Masters being present before colonisation of New Zealand , and that Polynesian Masters exist today as they will in the future, indigenous spirituality all over the world is part of RSSB Book Project,Publications take time but they will show the worship of the sound the searh for light et al.(Moriori the non violent ribe that lived pre Maori and European colonisation. Books are great friends where you can read it all day inside a prison, or outside in the other prison.Charan Singh used to call us A class prisoners or B class prisoners.In our country New Zealand Maori People are 16% of the population, however they occupy 50% of the prisons. I am mindful of the sewa Baba Ji asked me to do and Im working on it,spirituality is caught and not taught,experiencing the Masters Inner drshan,becoming One with Huzur is the true experience.One never forgets the humility of his prescence every day.I find it hard to stomach the criticisms of RSSB in the past now I dont care people can say what they like dera is s good or bad as any other place.Its like geting degree being initiated,one can apply ones self to the science of the soul study within daily OR drop out of class and criticise the University and the professors,deans of spirituality-to what end.They are the losers going into the womb again for another life without having graduated with a Degree in Sach Khand.Ready for pHD,status and to carry on with the educative process.We must remember what sant mat is, and what it is not I could set up a blog with Baba Jis permission and answer 24/7 counter arguments to the criticism,run down other faiths it so easy, but why bother? The real work of spirituality IS way from the laptop -sitting in simran and bhajan.Baba Ji said it only takes a click of his fingers to gain access to sach khand.So there you go,Love is all you need Love is God God is Love...eventually there will be One flock and One shepherd..that is why Melbourne will be approved Perth, and every other RSSB Science of the Soul Study Centre the Lord dems fit to ordain upon this ear.One visit to a Perfect Living Master in all humility to ask him for His Grace-will always be rewarded..."Humble thy self before a lofty mountain" Maori saying. Sant Mat will NEVER become a religion...just imagine Sawan Singh being reincarnated in Hawaii in the late 1950s hahahaha...all saints return eventually to save us from our minds.Hope for everyone in this creation dont diss the Perfect Living Master....think of his predecessors...no contest.Tihei Mauri ora e haere ana maatou ki te
Baba Ji.....kia ora koutou

[777]

Hi Ruhari

Sach Khand is not a place or a time

It is a State of Consciousness
( one could give it a name when associations with other Souls invite to do so )

BabaJi doesn't have to click. * And He doesn't praise Himself
He might have said it about His Master and even then in the subjunctive.
Masters follow the Mauj
You are so right that His Merci and Love vibrations are everywhere
and at the root of many religions and cults
when Help was needed

My special Love for the Maoris with their hardships

777

[dontfluckme]

they are making fools of you by telling 1+1=1 but they themselves are enjoying the 1+1=11 of it

[EnlightenMe]

Ruhari,you said:
that is why Melbourne will be approved Perth, and every other RSSB Science of the Soul Study Centre the Lord deems fit to ordain upon this earth.
Follow this link of Perth Council:
http://www.planning.wa.gov.au/daps/data/metropolitan%20daps/metro%20east%20jdap/meeting%20agendas%20and%20papers/%5Bs%5D7645b87b%5C20150715%20-%20Agenda%20-%20No%2059%20-%20City%20of%20Gosnells%20-%20City%20of%20Swan000101-000120.pdf

What do you make of this link after one year or so, has it been built in Perth? and have local council given the go ahead?

I understand the article above about the Chrinside Green Zone Wedge property, failed and RSSB Aus lost $25000 deposit and all expenses incurred. Why didn't the Lord deem it fit to ordain?

You may be writing a book or researching, have you honestly seen the radiant form of your master and speak to you? That's what I would call proof if you are!

[777]

EnlightenMe

"" That's what I would call proof if you are! ""

NOO, . .
It would not
Not even if it were printed black on white
in all the newspapers of the world .

Remember the blind-born man Jesus healed
They preferred to kill Him for that heinous crime

777

[T Vijay]

Why someone is trying to oppose RSSB unless you have your own way to guide the people.Dont try to show that you are the most intelligent and all the followers are fool.Let the people to make his own decision about his life .Dont try to show your intelligency unnesessary .Do your work , if you dont like someone then leave it nobody will force you to stay there.Dont make any commemt unless you dont understand things very well.

Radhsoami