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July 09, 2014


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Yes but my problem is when did I observe something? Is it when My wife observes it? Is it when it is in my brain but I am not paying attention to it? Is it when I think about it? When I feel it? When the xxx did I observe it when did the wave collapse? That debate is still going.

But very good point the point of self observation;) Never thought about it.

For myself I hold the interpretation that the wave collapses when there is a macroscopic interaction.

Many of your such posts have made me want to scream, "What the FUCK!!!", and throw a fit, if it was possible... but i guess, i'm too lazy..

Anyhow, i did, like your take on the cat observing itself..

"It's always bothered me that a human, or some other observer, was needed to make the twin potentiality of "dead" and "alive" become a single actuality. Why couldn't the cat observe itself?"

The Cat indeed, is observing itself!;-)

T to the E, actually the point of the analysis by Gefter is that the cat isn't observing itself.

The cat, like us, is a subject to itself and an object to others. Both perspectives aren't possible at the same time. Neither we, nor the cat, can step outside of ourselves. So our subjectivity prevents us from viewing ourselves objectively.

This is similar to the problem with knowing the entire cosmos, Gefter says. We are inside of the cosmos. There is no outside to the cosmos, since it is all of reality. So here also it isn't possible to perceive it objectively, from a "God's-eye view."

Though I can't observe my actual self as clearly as an outside observer can, I can observe my thoughts and feelings, and thereby account for the intentions and actions that follow. Without this capacity for self-observation, one would be literally selfless...an automaton.

Of course if there's no free will, we are automatons, but automatons with self-knowledge.

There is neither an observer, nor anything observed. There is only observing, which is tantamount to what is referred to as "Reality" - for lack of a better way to put it.

What about the Cat licking it's own paws, would that be objective enough?

or apparently; Prince being able to suck his own...
(tried it a few times, couldn't reach!:)


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