Supreme Court says prayer is OK at town meetings. Ugh!

Today the United States Supreme Court said it was just fine to have prayers from a "chaplain of the month" open a town's public meetings. 

Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, writing for the majority in a 5-to-4 decision that divided the court’s more conservative members from its liberal ones, said the prayers were merely ceremonial. They were neither unduly sectarian nor likely to make members of other faiths feel unwelcome.

“Ceremonial prayer,” he wrote, “is but a recognition that, since this nation was founded and until the present day, many Americans deem that their own existence must be understood by precepts far beyond that authority of government to alter or define.”

In dissent, Justice Elena Kagan said the town’s practices could not be reconciled “with the First Amendment’s promise that every citizen, irrespective of her religion, owns an equal share of her government.”

Well, it wasn't just a conservative vs. liberal divide among the judges who voted 5-4 to allow the prayers. All five of the judges in favor of praying are practicing Catholics. The four who were opposed to praying at public meetings were Jewish (three) and a non-churchgoing Catholic (one).

This is one more bad Supreme Court decision. As the above-linked LA TImes story said:

Justice Elena Kagan faulted the majority for approving an official policy of "religious favoritism." In her dissent, she said the majority might view the matter differently had a "mostly Muslim town" opened its session with Muslim prayers or if a Jewish community invited a rabbi every month.

True.

More difficult to imagine, but possible, is a mostly-atheist community starting public meetings with a paean to the scientific method and a godless way of life. I'd enjoy being able to serve as a "non-chaplain of the month" who gets to non-pray something like this:

We come together in praise of facts, sound reasoning, and devotion to scientific ways of looking at the world. We affirm our commitment to shun unfounded religious beliefs, faith-based decision-making, and supernaturalism of all kinds.

There is no evidence of God, just reality. We pledge to do our best to make this world a better place, ignoring those who would substitute fantasies of heavenly realms and life after death for what is demonstrably real here and now.

 

Comments

[tucson]

I don't care if someone says a prayer at a meeting, speech or whatever. This is no skin off my back. I'll just sit there and daydream or think of whatever my concept of God is or isn't. Or just yawn. What's the big fuss? Most people are religious, so let 'em have at it as long as they don't lay it on too thick or take too long. Then, I'm outa there. Does this make sense? Or am I just fucked up?

The founders said we have certain "unalienable" rights given by God. These rights are pretty good. At least they beat Cuba and China by a long shot. Land of the free, home of the bave and all that. Puple Mountains Majesty...God shed his grace on thee. So, I'm willing to put up with a short homage to this God thing.

Let's work on getting fiscally responsible instead of worrying about the details and relatively petty stuff.

[cc]

Most people are religious, so let 'em have at it as long as they don't lay it on too thick or take too long.

So a believer who politely suggests that you might be evil and headed for Hell is acceptable, whereas one who loudly denounces and lengthily condemns you is not.

[tucson]

Well cc, that's not usually the tone of the type of prayer we hear in the settings we're speaking of here. Usually the prayers are pretty generic without all the hellfire stuff.

[cc]

Usually the prayers are pretty generic without all the hellfire stuff.

"The prayers" are only a symptom - the disease is religion. Without a clear separation between church and state, all hell breaks loose.

[tucson]

Thanking god and asking for his blessings is no big deal in my mind. Sort of routine and innocuous like grace at dinner. There may be the assumption of mutual faith, but no one is proselytizing at these things. If they do, then someone needs to put a cork in it, that's for sure. At that point, there is the risk of religion inserting its messy little mitts in the affairs of state.

[Roger]

Tucson,

Good point,

"Thanking god and asking for his blessings is no big deal in my mind."

---Nothing wrong with a simple prayer and thanking god. When I pray, I am wishing something good to happen to someone in harm's way. No big deal---it's just a prayer.

That said, does Almighty God need thanks and worship and gifts and idolizing and etc.........???????

[cc]

Nothing wrong with a simple prayer and thanking god...does Almighty God need thanks and worship and gifts and idolizing?

If "Almighty God" exists, then everyone should start praying. But if He is all in your mind, shouldn't you keep your prayers to yourself?

[tucson]

"That said, does Almighty God need thanks and worship and gifts and idolizing and etc.........???????"

--Some say Almighty God is in command of, or actually is, the entire Universe of Universes. If so, why would It require such petty things? I find this concept rather odd...a needy God. Jesus! If God is needy then we're in deep doo doo and so is God for there is no end to needs and wants! Imagine an eternity of needs and wants. Hmmm. Sounds rather hellish to me. Could it be that this God with needs and wants is a Devil and in the same jam as the rest of us?

Some say worship, idolatry and gifts are really for our benefit in order to purify us and to gain favor from God. But if our essence is God, as some also believe, why does this essence need to gain favor or purify in order to attain what it already is? It's already "there". Does soap need soap in order to get clean?

Personally, I don't think there is much to be done about It. Any effort to do so just sucks you deeper into a fantasy like quicksand. They say that which is struggling is that which is struggled for.
You just quit straining at the imagined ropes and you are set free, maybe not like a bird from a cage, but rather from the crushing weight of the idea that there is a problem or anything to be done about it.

[Roger]

Thanks Tucson,

I really don't pray to an Almighty God. The "Almighty God" is just an expression, nothing more. I can pray for someone in harms way. It's just a prayer, the harm in the other person's way may or may not go away. Factors beyond my control.

"cc" person,

If Almighty God does actually exist, then we still don't need to start to pray. What would an Almighty God need of a prayer and praying? Since you have broken logic in your mind, shouldn't you keep your ideas to yourself?

[Mike Williams]

And a Hearty Radhasomai to you.

R S is now in need of a theme song
and nominations are being accepted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_PLWqnfFgU

[cc]

If Almighty God does actually exist, then we still don't need to start to pray. What would an Almighty God need of a prayer and praying?

If Almighty God existed, we'd be praying for mercy every goddamn moment.

Prayer is entreating some powerful being for what you want. Some believers take pride in how modest their prayers are; how they only pray to thank God and to ask Him to help others.

Fortunately for humanity, Almighty God exists only in the minds of those who pray to Him.

[Roger]

"If Almighty God existed, we'd be praying for mercy every goddamn moment."

---Does this supposed "Almighty God" really care about mercy and those precious goddamn-able moments?

The lunatic mind thinks so.

[cc]

The "lunatic mind", indeed.

Pray tell, Roger, when you "pray for someone in harm's way", offer your "simple prayer", and when you're "thanking god", don't you feel somewhat looney?

[Roger]

"cc" person

You wrote,

"Pray tell, Roger, when you "pray for someone in harm's way", offer your "simple prayer", and when you're "thanking god", don't you feel somewhat looney?"

---Thank god, that message came from your brain. Were you really pray telling? LoL.......

[june schlebusch]

I don't pray because I think anyone needs my prayers I pray because I NEED TO. prayer has sustained me all my life,whether or not there is Someone who hears I can't say but I feel better when I pray.

[cc]

You NEED to pray because if you ceased to believe that "Someone" was hearing your prayers you'd feel like an idiot.