This may surprise Christians who believe that God took on a human form only once, in the person of Jesus: many millions of people around the world consider that Gods in Human Form (GIHF) live today, in the person of various gurus.
India's Sant Mat tradition is the source of most of these GIHF's. Contemporary Sant Mat movements are led by a variety of gurus, all men, I believe.
(Sexism lives on in religious circles, whether in India or elsewhere.)
One such guru is Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the leader of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, which has its headquarters in the Punjab.
Back in November I wrote a short blog post about the unknown reason for Gurinder Singh's cancellation of visits to the RSSB headquarters. The reason turned out to be that the guru has "throat cancer," likely lymphoma. A surgical operation to treat it was performed in Singapore.
Reading the 87 comments to date on that post provides a fascinating look into the contrast between secular and religious worldviews.
Much of the terminology in those comments won't make sense to people unfamiliar with the Sant Mat belief system. But the gist of what is being discussed will.
When I heard that the guru had to be treated for cancer, my reaction was "That's too bad. I hope the treatment is successful." This is how I feel when I hear that anyone has cancer. All diseases are crappy; cancer can be especially so.
I never feel any inclination to pray for someone who has cancer. I don't believe that prayer has any supernatural effect, though it gives some satisfaction to both the person who prays and the prayee (if he or she knows about the praying being done for them).
In this case, though, the person who has cancer is a guru who is believed by devotees to be God in Human Form. So this raises some interesting theological questions. Such as...
If God is perfect, all-powerful and all-knowing, why would a Godly being allow himself to suffer from a disease?
When a guru performs a purported miracle, he is touted as being able to rise above the laws of nature. But when he gets sick, devotees say that God in Human Form does not like to break the laws of nature by curing himself. Does this make any sense?
Is there a Jesus-like meaning to the cancer? Could the guru be taking on the karmas or sins of his disciples?
These questions come up in the comments, with secular and religious commenters having very different views. Naturally I fall on the common-sense side. Everybody gets sick. Everybody has health problems. When we get ill and the illness can be treated, it makes sense to do so.
To me, there isn't much else to say about the guru's cancer/lymphoma. However, I'm glad that so many people did have lots to say. Made for interesting reading.
We are all GOD
Nothing that's matter is not God
Believing our not ; when God exists He must be Love
A SatGuru is/contains just the 'maximum' of that Love
Like a c-130 cargo plane full of food in the Philipines
The plane is just a plane
My personal intuition is
that Gurinder s 'karma'
changed world events !
Posted by: 777 | December 07, 2013 at 02:27 AM
Brian, thanks for linking back to the November post. I enjoyed many of the comments as well. I was never a Satsangee but had an inside view because of particular company I kept for close to 20 years. There is one mystery that perhaps you or one of your skeptic readers can explain away for me.
In 2000 we were in Thailand and we heard that Baba Ji was building a centre in Phuket. We were perplexed because Phuket is a small tourist destination and to our knowledge, unlike Bangkok, did not have many resident satsangees. Why there we asked ourseves?
Then came the 2004 tsunami hitting Phuket on boxing day when many tourists from all over the world would be staying in resorts on the beach. Magically though it occurred during satsang when satsangees vacationing in Phuket from all the world were safely at the center which was built well out of harms way.
Does anyone reading this blog know more about this? Perhaps I have some facts wrong, which having them put straight could alleviate one last piece of nagging magical sant mat mystery for me.
Posted by: Skeptic | December 07, 2013 at 07:52 AM
Everything that you write creeps me out.
It's insanity. Like if Hafiz had an IQ of 80. More crazy than 'spiritual.'
Posted by: jesse | December 07, 2013 at 09:39 AM
I don't recall that story, but i can remember being in Delhi and hearing about a bus full of satsangis on their way to chattarpur, and the bus drove off a cliff killing all who were in it.
I guess all the GOOD satsangis know when to be in the right place at the right time.
Posted by: jesse | December 07, 2013 at 09:48 AM
Yes : Love has an insane aspect.
Kind of inversed goose bumps :)
It's just subjective except
the 777+vivaldi comment
of months ago
That's 1000% objective
Posted by: 777 | December 07, 2013 at 11:04 AM
If you're happy and healthy, then more power to you.
Posted by: Jesse | December 07, 2013 at 05:16 PM
Wow Jesse and 777! Good comments! Im somewhere in between the two of you. We here in SA think Nelson Mandela changed the whole world. But in the final conclusion, for me... To quote Maharagi "Love and Love Alone counts in the Court OF The Lord" Im a little mad myself.
Posted by: june schlebusch | December 07, 2013 at 11:23 PM
Well said June,
You are relatively right
High IQ s go for the fall
The story of Lucifer with his 9²² IQ and he still crabs his wounds
Humans have this Sound
The 'weak' sweet sweet high frequency -bee-like tone
each human of compassion can catch !
You do not even need initiation
Initiation / meditation is just for being able to handle ( let GO )
the phenomenon when it goes wild ( roaring )
Without the force of the Oversee-er it is
as if you received the key of Fukushima
( before it explosed )
When overtones come and are added , when reverberations do the rythmic gong sound up to the thunder and the hurricane
when you start crying because of the pureness of it
compared with what you are/were ( the mind)
just to be able to cope
it's valuable to have the practise of dulling
this ENEMY of it
the usurper and the thief, THE RAPIST of decency, the ugly uglyness, the fitth of filths , , that is our mind
Let me fir the first time add a few scripoture lines
Adi Granth :
Countless the Unwise in black ignorance reel, . .
Countless the usurpers and those that steel, . .
Countless the Rulers who force their way, . . .
countless the cut-throats whom violence sways, . .
Countless the sinners whom sin engages, . .
countless the liars who wander in Mazes, . .
Countless the wretches , . . have filth as fill, . countless the slanderers, carrying loads of evil, This thinks Nanak, the lowliest of the lowly, . .
Sacrifice I am unto Thee Oh Holy, . .
It's about the mind - the thing we presently think you are
the more you will appreciate the sound this ugly
carbage can will fight
It knows it's end is near
I asked our beautiful Maharaji why typing this here
and not in a decent group
but He just smiled .
You guys have spent more time being cynics on God than many say gurmukhis
You should have better understanding that objectivity
is the TOOL of that enemy
That the elixir and everything around is JUST FOR YOU
and cannot put in words
Therefore it seems insane at all times
and it is for the mind
Hafiz, Rumi Bullah, Mirabai, Kabir, Nanak always insane
I gave the advise to Tucson
It works for the compassionates
not for the killers and torturers
This Sound is your Soul
After capturing you don't have to die because you saw long before
that the body is just a temporary cover up
and we are integrated in the Love_stream
I tried to say the best way I could
perhaps the bad english may help to read between the words
Terrific are the RSSB initiations and its SatGurus
in a way also subjectif
They care so much for their disciples -you couldn't believe it
Posted by: 777 | December 08, 2013 at 03:17 AM
Babaji is a business man.
Nelson Mandela is directly responsible for turning much of a 1st world nation into a 3rd world slum and for murdering, by some estimates, nearly 80,000 innocent white farmers, many through the vicious act known as necklacing.
He changed the world for the worse and i hope he meets Stalin in the hottest part of hell. Sorry you South Africans still believe in his holiness.
I guess media is all-powerful.
Posted by: jesse | December 08, 2013 at 03:20 AM
I think this all started after an initiation so there must've been some difficult karmas for the guru to take on for his disciples. They say Jesus died for his disciples' sins, I hope guru ji doesn't die for ours...
Posted by: some_guy | December 08, 2013 at 09:04 AM
Jesse you missed the comparation I was trying to make. I actually relate to your comments. Dec 5th about the throat and lies makes sense. But what Madiba said when he got out of prison was .... :If I remain angry and bitter I would still be in prison: Very profound don't you think. The farm murders you mentioned are actually much more than that and you don't even know about the other atrocaties, but I still want to come out with the belief that love and only love will matter in the end.
Posted by: june schlebusch | December 08, 2013 at 06:43 PM
In my opinion, one who commits certain acts would be more honorable to commit suicide or resign oneself to abject poverty.
Love sounds nice but the Aurelius in me can't accept it as more than a fantasy.
I actually treasure a certain amount of bitterness in myself nowadays. It leads to a skepticism that has improved some aspects of my life as i criticize myself as much as others or the world.
If it's not one prison it's another. Trapped in love may be just as bad as being trapped in cynicism or hate. I guess it depends on goals.
Thanks for replying,
Posted by: jesse | December 08, 2013 at 08:02 PM
Well, Jesse, what goes around comes around, as they say. If the 17th century Dutch slave traders who founded Cape Town hadn't been so greedy for Africa's land, diamonds and gold; if the Dutch government hadn't been in an Empire building frenzy, the Zulu and Bantu and Xhosa would have been able to socially and economically evolve and flourish as primitive European populations had to do. So, if it's a mess now Afrikaners have no one to blame but yourselves.
You'll likely be dead and gone, but eventually South Africans will get their act together, despite the devastating cultural and ethnic setbacks caused by Dutch colonization and apartheid. You have no moral right to condemn black Africans throwing off an inhumane, colonial oppression, or to boo-hoo-hoo the inherent post-colonial chaos that has ensued.
Your comments must be similar to those of the peoples of the Greco/Roman civilizations who were overrun by the Old Frankish savages, from whom the Dutch Afrikaners descend, thus plunging Europe into the 800 years known as the Dark Ages. Your attitude makes about as much sense historically as the rest of the world holding you responsible for the brutish extinction of classical antiquity wrought by your 5th century, savage Dutch/Norse/Germanic forebears.
400 years ago the Dutch grabbed as much of the African continent as you could get your hands on, and systematically enslaved and oppressed the inhabitants who'd never done you any harm. Now the chickens have come home to roost. Fair-minded and freedom loving people the world over thank God for Mohandas Gandhi in India, Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. in the U.S. and Nelson Mandela in South Africa!
Posted by: A Student of History | December 08, 2013 at 10:14 PM
A student of history - this is how it is now South Africa -
The rate of sexual violence in South Africa is among the highest in the world.
An estimated of 500,000 rape cases take place in the country, every year.
While women's groups in South Africa estimate that a woman is raped every 26 seconds, the South African police estimates that a woman is raped every 36 seconds.
South Africa has some of the highest incidences of child and infant rape in the world.
In 2001, it was reported by the South African Police Service that children are the victims of 41 percent of all rapes reported in the country.
Some cite a 400% increase in sexual violence against children in the decade preceding 2002. The largest increase in attacks was against children under seven.
A third of the cases are committed by a family member or close relative.
Around 50 people are murdered in South Africa each day.
Posted by: an observer | December 08, 2013 at 10:44 PM
Now student of history, just a few facts.... First of all it was the Portuguese sailors who bravely faced The Unknown, in their little ships, to discover The See Route to India. Then the Dutch came and found a pastoral community, with no technology, just very content to live their lives tending their cattle. Nothing wrong with that by the way.Then the were the French,Germans and of course the English.... But then they had been conguered by the the Vikings so this entire world is nothing other than one conguest after another. My own ancestors were Serfs in Europe..... The Blacks here have a concept called Ubuntu, loosly translated means........We are all one, I am because of you, and you are because of me. All nations contribute something unigue to the collective and if we are now a global community we could not have achieve it without the history we have had. Just ask anyone where and how they would like to live and I guarantee it will be in a western democracy........ Just one other things perhaps the reason we all went in our droves to the east in the 60,S was that we where looking for a more gentle approach to life India is after all very passive.
Posted by: june schlebusch | December 09, 2013 at 02:16 AM
A student of white guilt,
I'm sorry but iv don't think Dutch greed from a century ago justifies someone raping and killing today. It absolutely sickens me that you would say something like that and I'm not kidding, i hope horrific things happen to you. You deserve pain and suffering.
Here's a quote from your other hero, Ghandi
“Only a degree removed from the animal.” “Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized - the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals.”
Posted by: jesse | December 09, 2013 at 03:21 AM
These appalling statistics are in no way unique to South Africa. They are unique only to an age in which statistics are kept by modern means. How many people do you think died during the 400 years of the trans-Atlantic slave trade; men, women and children? The scholarly estimate is between 9 and 15 million. We'll never know but the trail of human bones on the ocean floor, along the shipping lanes between Africa and the New World, is still visible by satellite.
Rape? Look at old photos from the American slave holding states---see all those light skinned slave children? How'd that happen? Rape was institutionally considered the slave master's right. Young African women were routinely raped during the Middle Passage--- after all, a pregnant nigger wench was more valuable on the auction block-- Two for the price of one, Mister. And, ain't she purty.
Women and children have always been the first to suffer at the hands of men of all nations, during times of social upheaval. It's a horrifying but historically inevitable consequence in the wake of violent oppression, economic depression and genocidal suppression of one ethnic people at the hands of another. What you see in South African society today is a linear result of the dynamics put in play by the greedy, Dutch settlers who thought, Oh well, we can just take this land, subjugate these people and everything will be just fine--for us. But it's not just fine, is it?
Centuries of brutal colonization of the African continent is going to take decades, if not centuries more to recover from the disruption of the natural, cultural and political evolution that should have been allowed to take place in Africa over the last 500 years. That Africa, and South Africa in particular, is in the immediate violent throes of societal rebirth is a direct result of the violent disruption wrought by centuries of colonial rape, murder and pillage.
I'm sure there are white South Africans anxious to just wash their hands of the blood in the streets now, and claim victim status in "their" beautiful country. But the country of South Africa was conceived in violence, flourished through violence and is now having to endure a violent criminality that will take generations to unlearn. It was inevitable; but without a powerful conciliator like Nelson Mandela the overthrow of apartheid would have been a gruesome battle to the death of the white oppressor. South Africans are right to thank their stars (as most do) that such a rational and powerful figure as Mandela was able to take over the reins of revolution and bring about a humanitarian, and relatively peaceful resolution to the overthrow of apartheid. It could have been much, much worse.
Posted by: A Student of History | December 09, 2013 at 08:25 AM
I agree with you entirely. The history of humanity is a bloody one, no doubt. My only observation is that the people who have benefited from the violent conquests of their ancestors ought not to be finger pointing and absolving themselves now that the historically inevitable backlash has South Africa in the grip of violent criminality. It's going to take generations to clean up the mess left in the wake of apartheid, and the beneficiaries of that system should be the last to complain about it. It would be lovely if we could just convince the whole country to sit down and meditate their way to peace and harmony but unfortunately that's not the reality of the situation. Even at Dera I've seen the open hostility between white Afrikaners and black South Africans. While Huzur's visits to S.A. had a very positive effect I'm sure; it was Mandela (whom Jesse wants to see in hell) who was the instrument to bring about justice in a political system that legally held Indian "coloreds" like Huzur to be just another nigger.
Posted by: A Student of History | December 09, 2013 at 08:38 AM
You condemn yourself out of your own mouth. I said nothing about the violence in S.A. being justified in any way. It's heartbreaking and appalling. But we live in a world of cause and effect. Violence always has a cause (anger, lust, greed, insanity) and an effect (more violence).
There is a reason S.A. is awash in violent criminality. Perhaps it's people like you who, even now, still want to see other people in hell, and wish horrific things to happen to other human beings. Your sick, violent "hoping" and "wishing" demonstrates my point exactly. There won't be true harmony and peace in S.A. or anywhere else, until the hypocritical haters, who wish for horrific things to happen to people who disagree with them, are gone to their graves.
And BTW, read a book why don't you: Dutch slave-traders settled Cape Town in the mid 1600's, not a hundred years ago.
Posted by: A Student of History | December 09, 2013 at 08:52 AM
So when a disciple gets cancer, he/she is working out their own karma.
But when "Master" gets cancer, he/she is taking on the disciples' karma. Fancy how that works. (You see, because the Guru has no karma's of his own since he is God in Human Form).
Kind of sucks doesn't it?
There goes that "heads I win, tails you lose" game I read about in the Satguru Handbook.
Posted by: Sukhbir Singh | December 09, 2013 at 09:02 AM
The South Africa-related comments obviously don't fit with this topic. Off-topic conversations are OK up to a point, but then they become distracting.
I'm not going to publish any more related to the history and current conditions in South Africa. Worthy subject to talk about, but not here.
Posted by: Brian Hines | December 09, 2013 at 09:35 AM
If I could give God a human form I would want it to be a hot temptress...I could meditate on that for hours...Sach Khand guaranteed baby please!
Back up option- someone in the Iron Man suit.
When all Guru's are turban wearing Sikhs coming from India it becomes quite unoriginal. Get with the programme Sat Purush...us mortals have better imaginings!
Posted by: the9thGate | December 09, 2013 at 04:04 PM
9thgate sais :
If I could give God a human form I would want it to be a hot temptress...I could meditate on that for hours...Sach Khand guaranteed baby please!
Consider it done
A kind of third Eye chaturbate.com for spiritual starters ag EX-cers
When the cams will be 3 dimensional
you will have dhyan like that
From many SatGuru s , All genuine
and women too
Read my lips
God bless You All
9th gate : you are the one who was sad for your parents
isn't it -
Y'r young and will witness the giant spectacle
Posted by: 777 | December 21, 2013 at 07:57 AM
777- Blessings to you and your positivity. May you live to see the dawn.
Posted by: the9thGate | January 05, 2014 at 03:20 PM
Yes - I wouldn't miss it !
I see it already :)
Posted by: 777 | January 06, 2014 at 03:16 AM
Feeling the love inside our heart is of utmost importance.
Love is the only reason of the existence of everything and anything.
The only true physical form of love in the physical world is the true saint. They are the reflection of the Truth, the Shabd, the Naam or the Word.
As my lord says, as 777 repeats in most of his comments, 24x7 makes the big difference.
The sentiments in many comments are the results of the feeling of failure from the meditation. The thing is there is no such thing as failure in SantMat. It won't matter if we forget our Lord, Lord is not going to forget us. his Astral form is waiting for us with much more curiosity than us.
It may have been 100s of 1000s of years and births we've been struggling, why can't we struggle just for another some 10s of years. All this chaos for every single initiate is going to end forever. Feel the love, feel the contentment, feel the "Santosh". It's going to be really amazing for everyone.
If one's super determined to realize it during their lifetime, it needs one greatest of the effort. It's not going to be easy. One thing to follow "Never giveup".
But yes, many of us gave up... hear the audible life stream, hear to your inner conscience.
Even if we do not want to spend time on meditation/satsang now, still let's help ourselves and make sure not even to think of taking a single byte of meat/egg.
As repeated by Maharaj Ji numerous times,
The only efforts are required to collect your passport, essential papers, ticket and climb the stairs and sit in the plane. The Captain of the plain knows every single bit that when to take off, at which speed and where to.
Whether you are on the path or not, never ever abuse the saint. Everyone's going to realize the eternal beauty sooner than later. This life is all about 60/70/80 or 90 years, but it still is very less to be able realize the eternal if we know we have been waiting for this day since uncountable births in an unpredictable bodies.
Posted by: One Initiated | February 17, 2014 at 12:59 PM
If Jesus would like to stop his pain full death he could do it but he love God and want to be in God wish. Saint and messengers do not interfere with God's planning.
Posted by: Premi | August 08, 2014 at 07:24 AM
At Master's recent visit in Petaluma (July 23-24), someone said (paraphrasing), "...it is good to see you in good health. You look well". He replied, "how did you expect me to look?" and he stuck out his eye and tongue like someone from Walking Dead. Pretty funny.
Posted by: Ray Ford | August 08, 2014 at 10:47 PM
At Master's recent visit in Petaluma
"Master"? You have a master? Are you a talking dog? Pretty funny.
Posted by: cc | August 09, 2014 at 09:29 AM
I heard Gurinder Singh has got cancer again and cancelled Satsangs. Some say he has left for Singapore. Is it true? Anybody know more about it?
Posted by: G.K. | February 15, 2015 at 04:15 AM
His satsangs abroad of Malaga in April and in Jakarta and one more place have been cancelled.
Posted by: Juan | February 15, 2015 at 02:58 PM
Just got the following info:
14th and 15th there were the Satsangs at Beas.
Babaji delivered the Satsang on Sunday 15th Feb, 2015.
At the end of the Satsang, Babaji said:
"I've been told to not to travel much thus probably I won't travel much for the rest of the year.
Everyone is welcome to come to Beas and attend the Satsang.
Satsangs at Beas will continue."
Posted by: One Initiated | February 16, 2015 at 05:13 AM
Anybody considered that He may have been got at by the CIA?
Posted by: D. D. | February 16, 2015 at 10:21 AM
My observation God took the Karmas of satsangis to make them comfortable and He suffers their karmas otherwise He is Pious Soul. He is above from this world. His words are full of Amrit which can turn any impossible work into possible. C. K. Kapoor
Posted by: C. K. Kapoor | June 03, 2016 at 10:33 PM
My observation God took the Karmas of satsangis to make them comfortable and He suffers their karmas otherwise He is Pious Soul. He is above from this world.
….These saints are kind and soft hearted and so much in love with the humanity that they take the karmas of their disciples and only a real Gurmukh can see it.
His words are full of Amrit which can turn any impossible work into possible.
….Nothing is impossible for these Masters but they would not go against the will of the Lord.
Posted by: Juan | June 06, 2016 at 01:49 PM
I remember GSD QnA where he said that no one can take anyone else's karmas. But then he 2 questions later he said that we shouldn't beg since we take that persons karmas onto us.
Posted by: Neon | June 08, 2016 at 08:53 AM
I remember GSD QnA where he said that no one can take anyone else's karmas.
Maybe this applies to normal people and not to Saints/ True Masters. They can do whatever they like, there is no restriction on them.
I would try to put here a Q&A, more or less relating to Karmas, of this year in April in Malaga, Spain.
Q- Babaji, I have children staying with me from my first wife with whom I divorced, and now my marriage with my second wife is also causing big troubles and she is not behaving properly.
A- You should try to make adjustments and live in harmony.
Q- But Babaji, inspite of changing her behaviour she wants a divorce, please bless her.
A- What can I do in this?
Q- Babaji, you are the one who has initiated me. You have to take care of the karmas
A- So what if I have initiated you, I have to take your karmas. She has not initiated you that she is going to take your karmas. This is not a marriage counsellor office.
This indicates that these Masters sometimes take karmas of their disciples, who knows? The mysterious ways of these Masters are beyond the comprehension of a normal mind.
Posted by: Juan | June 10, 2016 at 05:12 AM
God is not a guru. God doesn't get sick.
Hope that answers the question.
Posted by: david r | June 10, 2016 at 11:57 AM
Fuck you okay?
Posted by: X | July 24, 2016 at 01:05 PM
I hope you weren't replying to me there.
Because if you were, you are a loser.
Posted by: David W | July 28, 2016 at 03:38 PM
Babaji Don Gurinder Singh Dhillon was admitted in Fortis Hospital, Mohali because of Food Poisoning. The doctors have advised him One week rest, so his programme of satsang of 12th Feb. 2017 is cancelled.
There are rumors that he will be leaving for Singapore.
Posted by: Juan | February 10, 2017 at 07:39 AM