December visits to the RSSB Dera cancelled. Anyone know why?

Today I got an email message from someone in South Africa who said that the Radha Soami Satsang Beas group there has heard that December visits with "Babaji," a.k.a. Gurinder Singh Dhillon (current guru) at the Dera in the Punjab have been cancelled.

First time ever, said this person, who asked if I knew anything about this. I don't.

Since quite a few people who are still involved with RSSB visit this blog, I figured I'd share the information/question and see if anyone else knows what is going on.

Comments

[Juan]

At the last moment, his Bangkok programme of this month and future programmes for the next four months have been cancelled.

These saints have to bear the karmas of their disciples on their own bodies, and to burn the karmas he has undergone a throat surgery, and the recovery will be in 3 to 4 months

[Mark]

It was announced in Satsang yesterday (Sunday, UK) that Baba Ji has had an operation. All Satsang programs at Dera and abroad have been cancelled (until February 2014) while he recovers. The announcement clearly states that there is no threat to his life … and that no one should worry. There are no other details.

[just me]

Thanks Juan and Mark for the information.

Also thank you Brian. Because I don't attend satsang I get my RSSB news via your blog! This is where I heard about GSD's previous visit which I attended.

I guess I'm not allowed to say "the Shabd works in mysterious ways" ... oops

[june schlebusch]

Well thanks Juan and Mark for that comment. We in SA have not had that information. Very perfexing.It leaves a lot of questions unanswered.If he is all knowing hou come this happens now.Think of the reburberations.Some people have saved all their lives for this trip.Most will loose a lot of money and all the other ramifications.Why was this not forseen.Could this not have happened in August when Dera is closed,No I think a lot of folk will be sadly dissalusioned.Im on the verge of throwing in the towl so to speak. I can no longer think of a man/ no matter how wonderful he is that he is G~D incarnate.I see it as a great illusion.Im so greatfull for this forum at least it gives us a chance to express our concerns. We certainly don't have it in the satsanga. All we are met with is platitudes.Dont question have faith etc.Im afraid its just not good enough.I want a sensible dialogue.I would not do that to poor people why could Dera still not be open or some other arrangement made. Come on if you have all knowledge you make a plan.I personally feel Very betrayed.I have invested 51 years of my life into this Path I was intiated at19 Im moving on but what about all my other dera brothers and sisters whom I love dearly. They are all very special people as you would know if you mix with them. What has let us all to this great deceptionPutting our trust in a man, Thanks Brian for letting me Vent but really man this is to much.Please excuse spelling and gramma errors Iv ist goy this laptop and still feeling my way around, but that goodness as it has opened my eyes to what is out there. Fot years I thought just do your meditation and all will be revealed and yes that stillness gives bliss but truth no I don't think so I left my interlect along time ago Now Im reclaiming it Peace and Blessings June

[Brian Hines]

June, churchless blessings back at you. And congratulations. You've come a long way, girl. It takes courage to embrace reality and truth as you've done. Bravo for recognizing the difference between platitudes and genuine truth-seeking.

[june schlebusch]

Hi Brian sorry if I keep bugging you ,promise I wont make a habit of it but perhaps you have some in sight into my delemars.I know you don't believe in The Holy Spirit saw you on youtube but L definetyly experience something. I have always wrestled with sound current verses HS.What if just for augument they are different.When I was in Dera in1979 I went into the rose garden and I was overcome with the most amazing Presence. I actually fell to my knees and wept. I asked myself was this Maharagi or Jesus. Of course got no clarity.But now years later an looking back on my life I see that the only success I ever had with my children my finaces etc was when I regeted Sant Mat doctrine.We are told its all ego ,get rid off it ,well I didn't have much ego to start with I had to develop one we are also told :You cant love G~D it all comes from the masters grace: well why did I feel this overwhelming love for Who What? I brought my children up as satsangis,the poor kids had to take vegan sausages to scount camp etc needless to say they are not happy with their upbringing>My grandchildren however are a different matter. They are very welladjusted success people>Not brought up in the SM mold. Our close nit community says I cant blame the Path for that but who then That was my God I worshiped and trusted is there a giant conperacy going on Is he perhaps the great deceiver the bringer of light Lucifer. If you sramble the letters SANT MAT you get SATAN.Is this to way out for. You seems very religious to me in your quest for truth but not in the churchy kind of sense Im not either but having meditated for all these years there must be some kind of an objective truth that Im missing. I want to feel sanctify always thought vegetarianism would help but no it does not. If you know of anyone out there going thro similar experiences please connect me but they must be satsangis I don't feel others would understand>Thanks again for your forum

[Brian Hines]

June, consider this: maybe there is no objective truth other than what the scientific method is able to show demonstrably exists. That puts the pressure on scientists to reveal those truths, so you can relax.

This leaves subjective truth, your truth. Also, my truth. Everybody has their own subjective truth, which provides meaning to individual lives. There is no proof of this. You know it directly. Right now. Right here.
Just trust your truth. You can't go wrong. Whatever you are experiencing, that's your truth.

Now you can really relax. You've got truth covered on both fronts, objective and subjective. Do your best to understand the truth about the world out there, and accept the here-and-now truth of your reality that is yourself.

[VVIP]

"the Shabd works in mysterious ways" ...

I wish one of those "mysterious ways" could be used to actually treat GSD mysteriously or at least help him recover sooner than the usual four months period. That would have saved many of his foreign disciples some hard earned money that they might have spent on buying air tickets to India.

Hopefully, those who still end up visiting the dera (during the time he recovers) would at least get to have his "darshan" (get to see him) even if they don't get to hear him. But, for that also, GSD will have to be physically present in dera.

Anyone having any idea as to whether he got operated upon in India or abroad and whether he will be in India during the time he recovers?

[tucson]

A certain American satasngi woman of some prominence due to her long association with that path was traveling with her son and Charan Singh, the guru of RS Beas at the time...circa 1970. The lady's son became quite ill and feverish. Charan Singh came into the hotel room to look at her son and then Mr. Singh went into the bathroom where he became ill (threw up). Shortly after that the son's fever broke and he began to feel better. It was thought, by those who witnessed, that the young man's karma was taken on by Charan Singh and ended up in the toilet, so to speak.

[june schlebusch]

I wish to clarify my previous quote Re spell Sant Mat and you get SANTAN IN NO WAY AM I emplying it is Satanic It is Deceptive.Yes. I trust :the body of believers" more than I trust the Sat Guru.They are at least available for dialogue, He is not.Im no longer prepared to invest any more precious time on faith in a man I want an honest debate, free of fear and ridicule. Just to add I still love :the man : Dearly. He is most charasmatic'

[Osho Robbins]

VVIP,

The master never uses his amazing powers for his own personal benefit. Because it would give the game away - and Kal is afraid that if he allows the master to do miracles - the whole planet will follow him and Kal's world will become empty because all the people will go to Sach Khand.

It's a contract that Kal make with Sat Purush - when Sat Purush said he would come down to planet earth to rescue his poor souls which the evil Kal had enslaved by giving them nice little goodies to temp them like "Big Mac's" and "pleasures of the senses" and shit like that.

So Kal made a legal contract with Sat Purush not to reveal his powers. I think the contract stands up in inter-planetary and inter-region high courts - so Sat Purush has to stick to it. Not sure what the consequences of breaking the contract are - could be a long term jail sentence or something of that order. There are no test cases - so it's anyone's guess.

[Juan]

Babaji Don Gurinder Singh got operated in Singapore, and I think still he is there. He will not be present on the stage till Feb. 14

All his visits to various cities during these months have been cancelled. I think the monetary loss of seva could be in the range of Rs. 50 –100 crores (500-1000 millions) which is much higher than the money spend by the disciples on air tickets.

Saints can do whatever they like. There is no restriction on them, but they generally do not like to break the law of nature. Sometimes they have to take the karmas of their disciples on their bodies.

In the decade of 80 due to very heavy rainfall in Pune India, Maharaj Charan Singh was the first to leave the satsang pandal (ground) in mid-satsang. He went immediately to the place where he was staying in Pune and stared meditating to save the city from a big disaster.

After few hours the rain stopped, the sangat was able to reach their homes safely, and there were no casualties.

[june schlebusch]

There is quote I heard somewhere goes like this The last thing a Satsangi has to overcome is The Master, also some one asked him :Do we have satsang on the astrals: I quest this is akind off ciber satsang.Also think that maybe these exsatsangis are doing just that.

[cc]

Everybody has their own subjective truth...Just trust your truth. You can't go wrong.

When you gave this advice to June, Brian, I hope your tongue was in your cheek. With subjective truth, what better way to "go wrong" is there than to trust it?

[just me]

June,

You say "I personally feel Very betrayed" also "What has let us all to this great deceptionPutting our trust in a man"

Life is all about change. We change our opinions, ideas, beliefs. We feel disappointed when our expectations don't deliver until we realise that its the expectations we have to give up.

As we become more discerning we at last realise that it has nothing to do with anyone else. Its all about our own projections and perceptions and there is no-one else to blame. Then we take back our power and continue... in our own way.

[judith]

""""Purush has to stick to it. Not sure what the consequences of breaking the contract are"""

The path is One Great 'Betrayal" to Kal

integrated in the beginning

[Kuljit Singh]

Dear all,
don't let u engage in suspicions regarding cancelled Satsangs as baba ji is much more worried for his pyaari sangat and only he know how he allow cancellation of satsangs

Babaji love us so much and he will get happiness and will get well sooner if we going do same what he teaching us from years I.e. Bhajan and Simran .

[Juan]

""""Purush has to stick to it. Not sure what the consequences of breaking the contract are"""

Sat Purush is almighty, no adverse consequences of breaking the contract, he can do whatever he likes, but of course he would not wish to break the law of nature. We should never commit the mistake of considering them as normal human.

[Avi]

"Sat Purush is almighty, no adverse consequences of breaking the contract, he can do whatever he likes, but of course he would not wish to break the law of nature."

1. What's the foundation for this "story" of a contract between Sat Purush and Kaal?

2. Is Sat Purush and God same or different?

3. Who created Kaal and why?

4. What do you mean by "the law of nature"?

5. Is this law also made by the Sat Purush? If yes, what stops him to break a law that he himself made? If no, then is the law made by somebody else who, therefore, also controls what Sat Purush can or cannot do? Do we also have a name for this somebody else?

[just me]

Avi,

Have you been initiated into the Radha Soami Beas group? There are so many Radha Soami offshoots now and their followers seem eager to discredit the Beas group.

It seems strange that you have so many questions when there are all the answers in the Beas books. I especially liked the Great Master's very informative answers to letters from the first satsangis in America.

[UNKNON]

BABA JI VISIT DERA BABA JAIMAL SINGH TODAY TO MEET THEIR LOVED SANGAT

[Judith]

June & JUAN

I think the contract stands up in inter-planetary and inter-region high courts - so Sat Purush has to stick to it.

This made me smile

Don't orget that He s doing all that with HIMSELF

He can do whatever he whats

Delete- and Recreate the whole 7 layers creation in a minute

There is no court ;)

He just does what he wants (MAUJ)

tiny AD ;
torproject.org

[Avi]

just me,

"It seems strange that you have so many questions when there are all the answers in the Beas books."

Would you like to take some time and please just answer the questions I raised above?

I am not in a hurry. So, take your time and answer just one everyday. You are free to cite any book/letter you want.

[Avi]

Kuljit Singh and Juan,

"In the decade of 80 due to very heavy rainfall in Pune India, Maharaj Charan Singh was the first to leave the satsang pandal (ground) in mid-satsang. He went immediately to the place where he was staying in Pune and stared meditating to save the city from a big disaster. After few hours the rain stopped, the sangat was able to reach their homes safely, and there were no casualties.
Posted by: Juan | November 23, 2013 at 11:12 AM

"Babaji love us so much and he will get happiness and will get well sooner if we going do same what he teaching us from years I.e. Bhajan and Simran."
Posted by: Kuljit Singh | November 27, 2013 at 07:06 AM

" ..... but of course he would not wish to break the law of nature."
Posted by: Juan | November 27, 2013 at 11:44 AM

Can we infer the following from the above?

1. Maharaj Charan Singh broke "the law of nature" in the incident described above.

2. Meditation/Bhajan and Simran by the master/guru saves the disciples/sangat and
Meditation/Bhajan and Simran by the disciples/sangat helps the master/guru get well sooner.

In other words, the master breaks the law of nature only for the sake of his disciples and the disciples should at least try to reciprocate the favor.

I am also curious to know the precise and specific definition of "the law of nature"?

[Juan]

Avi, I would try to answer your questions, as I have heard in the satsangs and read in the books of RSSB.
1. What's the foundation for this "story" of a contract between Sat Purush and Kaal?
…..Sat Purush, being pleased, gave a word to kaal that he would not interfere with the souls allotted to Kaal, and would let him rule over them.
2. Is Sat Purush and God same or different?
…..It is same.
3. Who created Kaal and why?
….God created the whole thing. His will (Mauj).
4. What do you mean by "the law of nature"?
….Laws made by God for its smooth administration.
5. Is this law also made by the Sat Purush? If yes, what stops him to break a law that he himself made?
….Yes, maybe to give a living example.
"In the decade of 80 due to very heavy rainfall in Pune India, Maharaj Charan Singh was the first to leave the satsang pandal (ground) in mid-satsang. He went immediately to the place where he was staying in Pune and stared meditating to save the city from a big disaster. After few hours the rain stopped, the sangat was able to reach their homes safely, and there were no casualties.
…..I was present there at that time, and this is what I saw and heard.
1. Maharaj Charan Singh broke "the law of nature" in the incident described above.
…..Saints are so much kindhearted that sometimes they do break the laws of the nature.
2. Meditation/Bhajan and Simran by the master/guru saves the disciples/sangat.
…..Yes, if you think the Masters are not lying.
This is neither a promotion nor demotion…If you can, please read the book THE MASTER ANSWERS- by MAHARAJ CHARAN SINGH. It has answer to all your questions, whether it be regarding Satpurush, Guru, why of the creation, need of master, initiation etc. and further it will be helpful to give you a clear image of these Almighty Satpurushs and Perfect Living Masters.

[manjit Singh]

Today babaji gave darshan at beas. He was not at all well. He has gone lean, his complexion has gone dark.....

[Evolkings]

Why doesn't he save the whole world from the daily disaster?

Why would it be considered as a disaster as the context is the grand scheme of life?

Also if he taken a Karma for a sick child what about all the other sick people that are satsangis?

folk tales...

[Osho Robbins]

Juan and Just me,
Those questions which Avi has asked have two types of answers: The official sant mat answers and the real answers when you go deeper into the questions.

Let me take one of his questions. "Who created Kaal and why?"

Why would Sat Purush knowingly create so much trouble for himself? Did he not know that Kaal would be a problem? If he knew, why create such a problem. If he didn't, then how come he didn't when he is supposed to be all knowing.

According to the story - Kaal was a soul that went a bit power mad and started creating problems. He demanded his own world and souls and Sat Purush obliged.

The question is - why allow Kaal to create so much trouble for everyone. Why not just destroy him, just like he created him?

If he can do anything, why allow one soul to cause so much havoc?

If Sat Purush is the supreme Being, how can laws be bigger than him? How can he be subject to laws?

[just me]

Osho, its not for me to argue. I reiterate, if people want answers they are all there in the books.

I think there are people on this blog who are moles who are looking for information to discredit the RS Beas group, hence all the questions and arguments thereafter.

We each have our own individual story running through our mind. So who is right and who is wrong? Some people will rely totally on their logical, reasoning brain. I prefer balancing intuition and feelings with my analytical, reasoning side.

If we have an open mind we question and filter information. Not only what we have learned but also question our own story which our mind is telling us is true.

[Judith]

""" Today babaji gave darshan at beas. He was not at all well. He has gone lean, his complexion has gone dark.....

Posted by: manjit Singh | November 29, 2013 at 10:31 PM """

can someone ( manjit , juan, or other )
tell good hearted BabaJi
that he should follow doctors orders
and NOT give Darshan

if not we will strike meditations :)

Darshan even more than speaking weights heavenly on His Throat Chakra

Charan often went to the third Eye directy but then some ( first life ini ) Satsangis don't see what they want
and the 2-nd & UP satsangis dont really need that
They can go inside

We all have seen Charan
swallow throat often
or in higher place

Let s pray for HIM
even the cynics here

[777]

I was there too - with the rainfall incident
The water around the Satsang place was later half a meter High
and we had no drop
I remember those taxidrivers faces

It was the occasion when I saw Charan' s face changing in the form
of these Vishnu s statues and paintings

believe it or not
4 Heads in 4 directions with the majesty of a roaring Lion

Anybody ??

Like : don't dare to touch my children
I believe I told this already before I was chased away from this group against the first amendement

I explained also at that month that I was still in grace here-
that a miracle ( an impossibility )
by a Sat Guru Saint is a simple thing :

He just changes the rules and items concerning this Big Bang
AT THE START,
included those so called promises to a KAL
That doesn't exist exempt in all jeevas

Kal is a neutral centrifugal force ,without there wouldn't any creation
A neutral centrifugal force we can hike on or not !

The left side creative Sound Stream down

So He exists and exists not ( without us )

All my Love to You all
We are all fools , to be here

777

[Virender Sharma]

Some of the above posts shatter our faith towards babaji. I think it does not matter that how many years we have put in following this path but our "Faith" in what we do. Do we care what we loose in terms of money when our own father, mother or childerns get sick ? We immediatley react to such situation and accuse someone becouse of our own weakness. Let me elaborate it further the way i see it. Master told us to give certain time for the meditation everyday. Have we followed that ?? atleast not me ?

But becouse of not delievering what we were asked to instead we start blaming, it is all minds fault which always looks for excuses. I think if we keep allowing our mind to fickle the day will come for departure and we will be empty handed.

I don't know about others but for a deciple like me who has not obyed what i was told let me keep quite and pray that my father gets well soon!!

[Juan]

Great are these Babajis and great is their love for sangat, though not feeling well he is back again on the podium to give darshan and take more karmas.

[Juan]

I was also there at the time of rainfall and the water entered in the satsang place, as far as I remember the whole traffic was paralysed for hours. It took me hours to get a taxi to get away from the place.
I did not see Charan’s face changing, because he was the first to leave the satsang place in mid of the satsang.
The captain of the ship left the ship with the passengers in mid sea to meditate and ultimately save them.

[Juan]

Osho, Charan Singh was interested in true seekers only, whereas all these questions are no more than mental gymnastics, which he was not at all interested, inspite of that you can find the answers to all these questions in the book, The Master Answers.( Get initiated by a Perfect Living Master and go inside)

[Vivek Verma]

Today Maharaj ji gave Darshan at Chattarpur N-Delhion 2nd Dec. It was announced at all centers in Delhi on Sunday Satsang..To the surprise of every one
there was around more than hundred thousand Satsangi wanting to have the Darshan..many ended up on the Road itself,( could not make it to the Chattarpur site), as the government had refused to spare any extra traffic police or security personnel as New Delhi is due for Election for the New State Government on the 4 th Dec.
His voice was soft and shaky and he informed the Sangat to stay "in the will of the Lord and attend to Meditation ...."
RS...

[Jesse]

Why does God get operations?

Why do G'sIHF fall ill at the same time as everyone else? Do they not take on other people's karma while young? Seems kinda fishy that their bodies decay the same as everyone else but only due to others' karma.

Does the shabd perform better in youthful bodies? Do our karmas get worse as our Guru ages?

Why does the Guru, who is massively rich, make everyone travel to see him instead of himself traveling? Rock stars do non stop world tours all the time. Certainly God could keep up with a bunch of debauched musicians.

To continue my questioning,I also always wondered why RSSB was so race conscious. I'm pretty race conscious as well and I think it's natural to be non-multicultural, but why the segregation while doing satsangs in India?

Separate rooms. Separate satsangs. Separate food. One sangat? Hmmmm.... seems the masters missed out on some cultural sensitivity classes. We foreigners are equal humans too. Stop profiling us and putting us in segregated hostels as if we can't handle ourselves!.. or is it something else?

Why 100% of the "charity" is dedicated to Indians? Seems more of a political move and a sly transfer of wealth from wealth creating westerners into the hands of the religious rulers of a dependent India who act as the party leaders in a utopian soviet-style dera where all are the same even in their differences.

Just some thoughts as I read over the comments and remember why I don't miss RSSB and am not worried about the condition of a guy from Panjab who I foolishly gave wealth.

[Preety]

GSD made an announced himself this past weekend at dera, that he has been treated for throat cancer. It is the first stage and he isn’t allowed to speak much, or eat or drink by mouth. He had an operation done in Singapore earlier.
If he really is God in human form according to all his followers, then shouldn’t he have known this before he cancelled all programs until feb, 2014. His followers have spent thousands in travel expenses to the dera this winter. Some followers argue that he has to deal with his Karmas as well, but then again that just makes him just as much human as anybody. Their arguments are very contradicting. They are just blindly following, without any logical reasoning.

[Jesse]

Preety,

I read an article long ago about the connection between really hot tea and throat cancer. I wonder if Gurinder is suffering from the bad habit of ingesting excessively hot drinks or food.

Charan Singh had some kind of diabetes and he was constantly seen in pics eating cookies and drinking chai.

If one were to take the old Upanishadic teachings literally it would be noticed that saints aren't supposed to suffer from any disease and that their habits should be such that their bodies are utterly free from any impurity.

Seems these guys just have bad habits and all the ills that come with bad habits.

Luckily Baba G can afford to fly to a decent hospital in Singapor and not be treated at one of those classic religious show rooms in Panjab which they call hospitals to attract donations from the west.

[Gaz]

Jesse,

I read an article long ago about the connection between really hot tea and throat cancer. I wonder if Gurinder is suffering from the bad habit of ingesting excessively hot drinks or food.

I think it is prolonged acid reflux over time which can cause throat/esophagual problems/cancer, stress, tea,coffee, tomatoes, spices etc can cause acidity. It is a common problem today in society.
Unfortunately the medical doctors prescribe drugs such as omeraprazole, antaacids which only hide problem and make it worse.

[just me]

Thanks everyone for the information about GSD.

I have only visited the Dera once about 14 years ago. I really liked Gurinder's practical down to earth attitude. I didn't hear him say this but heard from a satsangi that Gurinder had said that the Shabd was being blocked by Charan's initiates because they don't meditate.

I'm not into the religious claptrap but I do believe in the audible life stream. Loving thoughts to Gurinder and doing my best to tap into the Shabd!

[Jesse]

Justme says

"the Shabd was being blocked by Charan's initiates because they don't meditate."

Does this imply that the actual initiates/chelas/disciples of Charan Singh have the ability to withhold the power of God from others or that Charan/Gurinder hold such power?

So, effort brings grace but only grace allows effort. If the Gurus or their initiates refuse the all-mighty being's power to flow then there is no grace and subsequently there can be no effort.

I guess NOBODY gets to Sach khand! Suckers! You're just not good enough. And don't even think of going to a psychologist or seeking any form of help outside in other religions once you understand that the promised heaven is out of your reach forever. Don't you have faith in the master? It's all your fault.

Well, at least the bad stuff is your fault but the good is the masters grace. Really, you deserve ONLY bad experiences with your horrid karma that doesn't even allow you to utilize your initiation. Basically,devotees, you SUCK!

Also,for the millionth time, there goes that whole myth that RS doesn't use fear tactics (which was never more than anti-Abrahamic rhetoric in the first place. Does anyone really think that the abstraction of "hell" sounds any worse than being reborn as a bull, walking around a well drawing water for "millions of yugas?")

[VVIP]

On November 18th, just me started with saying:

"the Shabd works in mysterious ways" ...

Then, he said on November 30th, "I prefer balancing intuition and feelings with my analytical, reasoning side."

and see where he ended up by saying:

" .... the Shabd was being blocked by Charan's initiates because they don't meditate."

on December 2nd.

As per Santmat teachings, that you claim to "believe" in, "Shabd" / "Naam" / "Word" is ubiquitous and the whole universe is controlled by "Shabd".

So, just me, before making such contradictory statements about "Shabd", first decide for yourself, what exactly "Shabd" is. Make use of your analytical, reasoning side, if required.

Is it all powerful and so can "work in mysterious ways" or is it so weak that it can be "blocked" by mortals like you and me?

[Jesse]

And hey, Judith,

The entire philosophy of so-called Sant Mat rests on the idea that the whole chakra system is bypassed by such great ones as Baba G. I mean he "starts his journey and RESTS in the 3rd eye"(whatever that means) so how could this master of master(business men/con-artists) even still have a throat chakra? Know what I'm sayin'?

Don't worry about his throat chakra. He lives above all chakras all the time, on a lotus pad way up high in an astral region inside the Religare headquarters. It's more convenient that way since he lives in the world yet not OF the world ie he stacks cash between major meditation sesh's.

Being that he's a super human and all and exists above the realm of us mere mortals, it's quite surprising that he was able to contract a disease at all.

I mean, this guy CAN STOP STORMS with his magic Guru-voodoo. Either that or, in my experience, rain doesn't last long in Delhi. Most of the storms pass within minutes.But he looks really cool and powerful staring at the sky as the storm passes anyway.

I didn't comment for a year. Felt good to rant a few times. I should be done now, but I'm not promising that this is my last comment.

Carry on.

[Akhil]

The more intellect we develop, the more confusions we have, lesser is the progress within.
Go and watch indian poor people whose inner consciousness developed while getting initiation from the master just because they were short of intellect about this path.

[just me]

Wow, angry people... chill out!

Why does it matter so much that others have their own belief system?

Its okay... be happy in your bitter and twisted state of mind.

[Brian Hines]

just me, thanks for the marvelous bit of satire! You chastised people for being angry, then called their minds "bitter and twisted."

Ha-ha! Great stuff. You showed how hypocritical santimonious religious believers can be, by pretending to be one yourself. Clever. Criticize anger, then get angry.

You WERE kidding, weren't you?...

[just me]

Okay Brian, got the message, out of here, things are getting nasty.

Cheers

[SATSUNGEES]

BABA JI PLEASE GET WELL SOON . WE CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT YOU IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ALL OF US PLEASE BABA JI WE LOVE YOU TOO MUCH .

[Brian Hines]

just me, you just keep getting better and better -- more hilarious.

Wow, you call people "bitter and twisted," then complain that "things are getting nasty."

Apparently you didn't even see your own hypocrisy until I pointed it out to you, and now you're irritated at having that pointed out.

Lesson: look at yourself before you complain about defects in others. We're all in the same boat, just me. Trying to do the best we can in an imperfect world.

Lighten up. Life will seem more pleasant if you don't expect perfection. In yourself, or in other people.

[dk]

anyone tell me in which hospital baba g treatment go. baba ji now well, anybody give msg of baba ji, I want to see but I`m helpless. I have never money to see baba g where his treatment go and I`m also very bad man, but I want to see baba ji anyone give my msg to my baba ji tusi jaldi theek ho jana. everything is vain without you my baba ji. You are seeing good always happy.
I want see you in happy face.
I see you are looking so week. but baba ji there are nothing any karm of saints but why are you have so dangerous decease I can`t believe it. you are very innocent you got anyone karm upon your self. baba ji you are great.
I want to see you
please anyone give message of baba g health

[Judith]

Jesse said :
If he really is God in human form according to all his followers, then shouldn’t he have known this before he cancelled all

While many many Satsangis really SEE He is GIHF
He Himself does not !

Guru Nanak in Jap Ji, pâraphrased :
Such says Nanak , The Lowliest of The Lowly.....

Nanak is really MEANING THAT
and it is like that because what is given to such GIHF s

is the recollection of what they since ever have done with their given jeeva_ship /
Egos
before the order to serve as a Guru

Jesse
It's a blessing for yourself that you gave some moneys
and if it s spend in India , .. the people who gave their 10 cts during a century.

Judith

[777]

Hi Jesse

Seeing the tragic or funny comments :

" SHABDS WERE BLOCKED "

Hilarious is to say to people who hear 24/7 and are overjoyed.

It is just reverberating
like grand prix motors in the pitch,
and with meditation the ascending roaring of the Soul is facilitated

It is not that a Master is roaring the whole time
These are cycles on an ascending
spiral
There are peaks and downfalls according to destiny

I get tears in my eyes
reading in Charan's last book
that sometimes He was not 100% happy

HE WAS SO SWEET for Us

777

[777]

Osho asked :

why allow Kaal to create so much trouble for everyone. Why not just destroy him, just like he created him?

Because It is Osho !

777

-

[june schlebusch]

A lot of comments say go read :The books" its all in the books. Well its also in the bible, but they are totally different, Which books? Books are only other peoples opinions even though they maybe inspired. So must one follow blindly because its in the books?

[june schlebusch]

Responding to Akhil I agree about the interlect being a problem with going within (I personally find Confusions In Conclusions I concluded long ago, to quote from The King of Siam) but one of the things that most disturbed me at the Dera were the "simple people" going within. It scared the living day lights out of me. How do you know where they were going? If that is an example of spiritually I cant relate to it.

[Juan]

THROAT CANCER STORY

Sooner or later the throat cancer will disappear in a mysterious way without leaving any signs and this will be enough to certify and renew the belief of believers of the power of almighty Babaji.

But, the disbelievers, if they so wish can think that there was no throat cancer in the first place and Don Gurinder Singh was just admitted to the hospital for treatment of a minor infection.

[Juan]

BABA JI PLEASE GET WELL SOON . WE CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT YOU IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ALL OF US PLEASE BABA JI WE LOVE YOU TOO MUCH .

...The Shepherd will never leave his sheep.

[jesse]

Thanks triple seven, I've read the books, too.

And juan, the cancer won't magically disappear. It will be treated and cured, thanks to western medicine.

[Avi]

Sooner or later the throat cancer will disappear in a mysterious way without leaving any signs and this will be enough to certify and renew the belief of believers of the power of almighty Babaji.

Very funny!

Yes, of course, the cancer will disappear as it has happened with many other normal people as well. It's simply because GSD aka Babaji took the right decision and got himself treated by the professional doctors in Singapore who did a good job.

One could attribute the "disappearance" of the cancer to the power of almighty Babaji only if he (Babaji) had taken the risk of treating himself through the mysterious power of Shabd, etc.

But, GSD is much more intelligent than many of his blind followers and did the right thing.

[Avi]

And, Juan, why do you have to speak for disbelievers? They are intelligent enough not to confuse a cancer with a minor infection.

[Avi]

A lot of comments say: "go read the books, its all in the books." Well, its also in the Bible, but they are totally different. Which books? Books are only other peoples' opinions even though they may be inspired. So must one follow [something] blindly [only] because its in the books?

Very well said by June above.

Ironically, GSD himself has been quoted, a couple of times on this blog, as saying, "Burn the books."

So, whose advice shall one follow, GSD's or the followers' ?

[Avi]

It was nice not to "see" 777 here on this blog for quite sometime.

I fail to understand why is 777 being allowed, once again, to post comments that probably make sense only to him.

[navjot]

BABA JI GET WELL SOON, WE ARE WAITING FOR YOU
WE ALL LOVE YOU ALOT ,CAN NOT LIVE WITHOUT YOU.

[Juan]

GSD is much more intelligent than many of his blind followers and did the right thing.
…. Shepherd is always much more intelligent than sheep.
They are intelligent enough not to confuse a cancer with a minor infection.
…. They are, but maybe the believers are getting confused of a minor infection with cancer.

[Juan]

So, whose advice shall one follow, GSD's or the followers' ?

The sheep should follow the shepherd alongwith other sheep, but if one has his own brain in working order, he/she can make use of it.

[Juan]

So, whose advice shall one follow, GSD's or the followers' ?

The sheep should follow the shepherd alongwith other sheep, but if one has his own brain in working order, he/she can make use of it.

[Kanta rahuja]

Radha
Soami..its a request to evry one pls do bhajan simran as much as possible we want our babaji to get well and perfect in front of us pls do hath jodh ke venti a sareyaan nu ...

[Avi]

Juan,

…. They are, but maybe the believers are getting confused of a minor infection with cancer.

Now, you are trying to speak for "all the believers."

Why can't you just speak for yourself and let others (both believers and non-believers) think and speak for themselves?

IMO, your comment will be appreciated even more if you speak just for yourself.

Also, according to the following comment made above, GSD himself, and very rightly so, provided details about his condition. There should not be any scope for any rumors or confusions after that both for believers and non-believers alike.

GSD made an announcement himself this past weekend at dera, that he has been treated for throat cancer. It is the first stage and he isn’t allowed to speak much, or eat or drink by mouth.

[tucson]

The word I have from a current RSSB devotee with fairly good connections is that the guru (Baba Ji), Gurinder Singh Dhillon, has lymphoma. Lymphoma is a cancer that can affect the lymph nodes such as those in the throat, hence the rumors of "throat cancer".

[jesse]

"fairly good connections"

RSSB in a nutshell.

[AJAY]

if we do love with our guru, than this is a right time to show the love to our guru by doing SIMRAN and BHAJAN.

This is our exam time that our guru will see our devotion and love with SIMRAN and BHAJAN. Coz SIRMAN and BHAJAN is NAAM and NAAM is GURU. So Keep continue Chatting NAAM and do Meditation.

Every time, we all urge help from our guru. And our guru always with us to save us from our bad karma stroms. that is why our GURU is facing this problem, coz he has taken our bad karmas to save our disples from the problem.

OUR GURU Ji is a GOD. He is free from KAAL and from every stars. we all are the culpits that is why our guruji is facing this problem now these days. COZ WE DO NOT DO BHAJAN AND SIMRAN.

SO NOW WE ALL HAVE TAKEN A PLEDGE FOR DOING THE BHAJAN AND SIMRAN ON DAILY BASIS UNTILL OUR LAST BREATH. SO THAT WE CAN GIVE THE HAPPYNESS TO OUR FATHER AND MAINTAIN GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM.

AND HE ALWAYS KEEP OUR SOUL HAPPY EVERYTIME BEFORE THE DEATH AND AFTER THE DEATH AS WELL.

************* RADHA SOAMI JI ***********

[Sukhbir Singh]

(copied from an FB forum) for more information

RSSB Letter from Dera

Following the Master’s first round of medical treatment, he returned to the Dera for a few days to give darshan to the sangat and relieve their concern about his health. Sunday, at morning satsang, the Master addressed the entire sangat and told them in detail about his illness and said that they should not worry and should be positive. He said that the sangat’s crying and long faces will not help him but that their meditation will help him.

Today the Dera released the following memorandum which describes the Master’s medical condition:

This memorandum is for the Sangat’s information regarding Baba Ji’s health. Since there has been a lot of speculation, we would like to bring forward the full facts.

Baba Ji had not been keeping well for the past 2 1⁄2 months and went through extensive medical tests. Subsequently he was diagnosed as having lymphoma, a type of cancer, and treatment was started immediately. The doctors diagnosed that it is at an early stage and can be easily treated. He has gone through the first session of chemotherapy and will have to go through a few more sessions as required. According to the doctors, there is nothing to worry about, as this type of cancer is fully curable. The only apparent side effect is the weakness caused by the treatment, but the doctors say that he will recover and his health will return to normal in a few weeks following the treatment.

The sangat is advised not to speculate or worry in any way. Although Baba Ji will be taking his treatments, he will be visiting Dera regularly.

With Radha Soami Greetings Yours affectionately,

[777]

Simran and bajhan

It's good for any human (read : "the way of a Pilgrim" )

But easier when the tools came from a good manufacturer
These words are TERRIFIC, . . like Excalibur, much more practical than Tolkiens Ring !

Who cannot sit, . . just do them night and day
that s do-able , isn't it

AVI , I'm sorry but understand I'm disturbing you

Just do this 24/7 thing, it will amaze you

Even if you thought you tried some already in the past and google
hinessight+radha+777 once in a while

777

[Relish goodness]

Guys,

I couldnt read all but yeh read most of the conversation here.
My understanding says Santmat is a path which is based on love and affection which all kind of faiths also insist on. Lets take good from all we hear and see and filter the negativities n try and stay away. So i would like you all to follow what u believe in n shun doubting.
Lets all live lovingly.

[tucson]

777,

I did the simran/bhajan thing for more than 20 years. I ate no animal carcasses, I humped no babes out of wedlock.I stayedaway from heroin, PCP, etc. and I was quite an honest, righteous dude.

I experienced no Excalibur-like effects from simran except for a numb mind and numb legs. Bhajan? There was nothing to listen to even after 20 years of effort. Oh, maybe an odd sound here and there, a flash of light or a thunderclap/sonic boom type thing but nothing transformative at all. Zero/nada/zilch. No radiant form or hansas on dweeps. How about you?

[june schlebusch]

Hi Virenda Sharma 2/12 You say "We have not followed the intructions,etc" Well I speak only for myself, however I think some may agree with me.... I came to this Path as a seeker after truth. I to the best of my ability did most of what was reguired of me.It might not have been good enough >But IT was my Best. I cried, I begged, I pleaded and I put in Effort. Im am sorry that Babagi is ill and yes I do pray for his speedy recovery but he is not my father, my father was Ralph Roos passed away 1980 My "Father" The Supreme Creator Im still trying to get to know, Peace and Blessings to all those seekers,those that don't except anything that cant be proved. AS Maharagi said.. :We are all just struggleling Souls:

[lk to much]

Hi Tucson

I'm so sorry that you feel bitter

but are you sure it brought you nothing ?

Isn't it swell that you do not kill anymore ?

Are you afraid of Death - Most people are - Are YOU ?

Did you indeed beg on your knees the Master who initiated You for LOVE ?
Not for happenings but just LOVE

And you asking me about me ?
I didn't even do 1% of what you describe . . .
At the time I thought
This path I can never do and I still think so
but what I'm sure I can do is Simran,
at all times
Even when you rob a bank or fuck those babes

It is really ( in french ) THE CLUE

I did great business deals with ( the help ) of Simran
but I couldn't help it because I really did it night and day

Next , suddenly without other "merit"
from my side
things started to happen
All kind of things . . .
I told about in my (irritating :) ) posts from the past

The most important and first -as I see it-, is that I really have seen what my mind is - inside yes - that, before anything else
and that that my mind : there is no splitsecond or nanogram good in it

This is very anti advaita thoughts

It is just one uglyness
For me, that was very essential to know

I don't know if I already told
but next to that what made me cry loud and long

The Sound came and made clear that IT was the my 24/7 simran,

Also that in earlier times all mankind in what form so ever but always with a Crown Chakra
was in a situation that everybody from his birth on heard the Sound.

But we don't , a combination of to much mind development
and just no interest,
even when we are initiated

Therefore the Masters cannot advise other than : Simran+ Bajhan or Bhajan
Hihi - I don t know how to write

But when you had the roaring inside of a hurricane of Sound but also as I hear from other satsangis who ta

[777]

the text went in Save
automatically and I could
not go back
so I typed the two words

and continue a little bit

========
The last point was
and I don't see the text anymore
perhaps I typed some words where the name 777 should be
but Brian will see and understand

Other satsangis they hear
and it is all random how that happens, . . . I mean different not really random
because all our hairs are already considered done

Like the man with Sawan after He said :
"Now you have only 2 weeks to live, .... please do some sitting "
and he said :
WXOW what cool is that Sound
Why didn't you tell me earlier !
( By the way a story that not very much puts people on meditation but very honest )

We are just so powerless and the longer we think we can do one breath on our own, without That " Source
but you do not need to say : "The Master" - But it helps . . . .
less will happen

Therfore I hear sometimes that revelations come in a kind of "Book of JOB" - like circumstances - touch wood :)

You know Tuckson
All that 20 years
could you have done something better than what you told above ?

Hardly so I think - if so , tell me
and I try that out . .

Blessings and Streams of Love Dear Brother
Don't give up with Kate Bush and Peter Gabriel -

It is a marvelous path
It is natural - it can also be done - I think - without a Master
but then it takes so much longer

A Master is just a Zillionair giving a few millions to a beggar

"It's More important Who you know than What You know !"

777

-

[the9thGate]

Seems like this Kal dude is one cunning son of a gun....where do I sign.
It's startling that some satsangi's have posted that they feel the sangat are responsible for Gurinder's ill health because of a lack of practising simran and bhajan. That sure is one big guilt trip! I'm beginning to think Sat Purush is more cunning than Kal Niranjan. All Kal wanted was ultimate power and to be worshipped...oh and a massive place of is own..sound familiar? Maybe God is just a schizophrenic.

[jesse]

the9thgate,

Spot on about the guilt trip.

It's not only bad enough that they are responsible for their own spiritual failings,even when they do everything right, but now they are considered responsible for God himself getting cancer.

I can't imagine a more fucked up way of thinking, and all of it just because some Panjabi guys want to make an easy rupee the only way they know how in India.

It's been going on for ages. Pathological guru worship. A sick inheritance. A cancer in itself.

If karma is real, I wonder of baba g's cancer comes from his misuse of the throat. What sin it would be to call oneself God to get money and what better punishment than damage to the organ used to spread the lies.

jesse

[Juan]

It's not only bad enough that they are responsible for their own spiritual failings, even when they do everything right, but now they are considered responsible for God himself getting cancer.

… Such heavy is the load of karmas of 8.4 million lives and the biggest sin a human can commit is doubting the True Masters.

[jesse]

Jaun,

There is no way to respond to such propaganda other than to call names.

You guys can't even name the number of heavens that you, in only your own lineage, believe in. How can you count millions of species?

8.4 million species. So, since probably thousands of species have gone extinct in the past few generations just on this earth, should your number not be adjusted for that? Maybe 70 lakh and about 980 "hazaar" at this point?

And what is the style of taxonomy used to declare all these species? Sounds pretty primitive to say "of an egg" as a serious category. But, for a ultra-scientific community who believes the world is balancing on a f$%$%&ing dolphin, what should one expect?

I don't doubt true masters if they exist. I doubt the jatt panjabi business man who runs the business known as RSSB.

Peace out Bro,

Sri Sri Baba Jesse Ji Adi Sat Sant Maharaj Hazoor 108 USA Wale (cool title eh? Means I'm super spiritual)

[Preety]

"… Such heavy is the load of karmas of 8.4 million lives and the biggest sin a human can commit is doubting the True Masters."

Juan, I disagree, I believe the biggest sin a human can commit is to take the life of another human, aka criminal. We live in the 21st century, everyone has the right to make their own decisions.
Just because someone doesn't agree with YOUR "true master's" path and has doubts, doesn't make him or her a sinful person.

[777]

"… Such heavy is the load of karmas of 8.4 million lives and the biggest sin a human can commit is doubting the True Masters."

These are just lines from old books
to indicate a kind of unfortunate karma

Fairytales are also very barbaric

Its almost Montezuma - like - such lines :)

I agree with Preety

The Path is a Gift and seeing my case not
for the good guys

But there are also many angels on this path
and a lot of other stuff in between

There are even ( avi : pl. close eyes ) what is mentioned in the Church
"Powers of God", higher than Arch Angels in Sant Mat terms 4th region responsible for xillions of 3th level creations
and they bow for a This sick Man with cancer who doesn't understand why and what
but tries his best

Everything is done on this path : to avoid (ego powering) understanding
on all levels
Objectivity can't apply because it' subjective as Brian said a One Man"s world

It's just Love for the Sound at a moment it will not be to hot in your kitchen, next being the Sound,
next love for the Man who gave the loudspeaker
( the sequence of
Simran-Master-Sound-Soul
is not mandatory)

777

[tucson]

lk to much wrote:

"Hi Tucson

I'm so sorry that you feel bitter"

-- I'm not bitter. I was totally finished with Sant Mat (except to comment on it) around 1996-97. I started to drift away after seeing Gurinder and his audience in 1991 in San Francisco. That was my big wake-up to the reality of the whole thing. I actually felt relieved. Big monkey off my back. Freedom!

"but are you sure it brought you nothing ?"

--It brought me nothing in terms of significant "inner" experiences. All of my significant "spiritual" experiences occurred outside of Sant Mat meditation. Sant Mat helped me to form an honest character and I made some good friends along the way. Not all bad.

"Isn't it swell that you do not kill anymore ?"

--I kill. I began eating meat again in 1997 with improvement to my health. I don't like killing animals but the type of body I have does best with some animal food. Life feeds on life. One day I will be food for something...a tree, worms, an animal.

"Are you afraid of Death - Most people are - Are YOU ?"

--Yes, if I dwell on it. You are never sure what death really is, satsangi, christian or whatever. However, the "Essence" of what we are will always remain, I feel. I don't think death is total, eternal annihilation.

"Did you indeed beg on your knees the Master who initiated You for LOVE ?
Not for happenings but just LOVE"

--Sure, lots of times. Didn't help.

777 wrote:

"You know Tuckson
All that 20 years
could you have done something better than what you told above ?"

--I could have meditated 24/7 but I think that would have turned me into a zombie. I think being involved with Sant Mat restricted my social contacts and life opportunities as I was reluctant to involve myself much with so-called "worldly people" many of whom were probably just fine. Being hung up on avoiding egg whites or a glass wine is stupid unless you are allergic. So, Sant Mat was limiting and restrictive for no good reason, imo. But it doesn't help to dwell on the past, just learn your lesson and move on.

[777]

"I think being involved with Sant Mat restricted my social contacts and life opportunities as I was reluctant to involve myself much"

Tucson
That was very honest and clear !

But 24/7 Simran doesn't produce a zombie, . . .
Did You ever observed or heard of Charan :
How flashing efficient He was , even His last month

My own experience in 7 figures business
It adds a kind of intuition . .

And yes several times I told the other party at dinners that they had to pay their own meat

How can defending the weak makes us less
At all times it brought me respect ( based/judging the outcome of business contracts )

If you have no better path today
I would take it up again
It makes life easier, when you mean it

Plus Heaven in this lifetime -- Yet you identify this Sound for what it is : YOUR SOUL , the flesh doesn't matter anymore
YOU are that Sound

Blessing and courage my Brother

777

[tucson]

777 wrote:

"But 24/7 Simran doesn't produce a zombie, . . .
Did You ever observed or heard of Charan :
How flashing efficient He was , even His last month"

--I actually became like a zombie after only 2 1/2 hrs of meditation! I don't think repetition of the 5 names is an effective meditation method to enhance awareness. There are better methods, imo.

Yes, I was initiated by Charan in 1970 and visited the Dera twice. I saw Charan lots of times in India and the USA. I shook his hand and had three private interviews with him. He was a gentleman, but I don't think he had the special powers Sat Gurus are supposed to have. He was just playing the part of a Sat Guru like an actor. He himself admitted this.

"If you have no better path today
I would take it up again
It makes life easier, when you mean it"

--I meant it when I was doing it. I was sincere and really made an effort, although I was not a perfect devotee or gurmukh. Meditation for hours on end was very difficult for me. I admit. When you are young and have excellent health and vitality your body wants to get up and move.

Now, I have no interest in "paths" or faith-based belief systems. Life just is what it is. If you can accept that, it makes life easier.

"Blessing and courage my Brother"

--Thank you for that and the same to you.

[Mike Williams]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtamu_pU-hw

[Suki]

Those who are disillusioned, saints do get sick, spiritual and the physical are twp seperate things when the body goes through the process if dying does the bogy go with the soul? no it decays and dies and has served it's purpose. If we have mental suffering why can't we accept physical. Look what Jesus went through - could he not have stopped it! and ask his father the Lord. Guru Arjan Dev during time got an infected toe, Guru Ram Das out of love cleared the infection through love by sucking this out. Lets not get down to the nitty griyty of our disillusioned reality. We dont understand as we don't have the divine knowledge or understanding.This is KAL JOG lets take some responsibility for our own sake. Always want to blame something or someone else.

[the9thGate]

TO SUKI- You said " lets take some responsibility for our own sake. Always want to blame something or someone else"
Then why does Gurinder want to take the responsibility (i.e. karma)of people. Should they not be responsible and deal with it themselves. I am all for taking FULL responsibility and not selective. Regarding blame...I have heard many a satsangi's blame the sangat for Gurinder Singhs current health problem. Is that not blaming?

[tucson]

If you analyze the guru with logic, he will always fail under that scrutiny. He only looks Godly if you have faith. You either have faith or you don't.

To the logical, the faithful look foolish.

To the faithful, the logical look foolish.

[Avi]

"To the logical, the faithful look foolish.

To the faithful, the logical look foolish."

Sums it all up in two small sentences!

Very well said, tucson.

[Osho Robbins]

"To the logical, the faithful look foolish.
To the faithful, the logical look foolish."
- Tucson

A quote to make you famous, Tucson.

Everyone is completely convinced that their view of reality / The world is the correct and only true view.

We all have this idea that "Because I think it is the truth - it IS the truth. It's not my opinion - it IS the absolute truth and you better agree with me - or else you are deluded."

Religious people stick together because it gives them comfort to know that others also believe the same - hence it MUST be the truth.

It really doesn't matter what anyone else says - each group (the faithful, and the logical) have their own arguments and that's their story and they are sticking to it.

What you believe is true becomes your truth - it is true for you. That becomes your reality - your way of seeing the world. And your way is always the RIGHT way - all others are deluded.

"If someone else says it - it is just their OPINION - not the truth. If I say it - it is an undisputable FACT"

That is how we all live and we have collected a lifetime of 'evidence' to prove that we are right.

When I used to believe in sant mat - there was no question about it. It was a known FACT! anyone who denied it was simply an idiot who has not examined the evidence. I was not interested in debating with anyone about it - after all - why debate with an idiot. My view of sant mat was the truth. It was only when I met some Muslims that I realized that they believe just as strongly that THEY had found the truth - when to me their whole argument seemed absurd.

To them - my ideas seemed absurd. Everyone believes that what they have concluded is unquestionably the truth.

Many years ago, in a training called 'est' Werner Erhard would spend three whole hours before the penny dropped and the participants realized what he was really saying. What he said was: "The way you have figured it all out - the way you think it is - is not related to REALITY as it really is."
Everyone thinks they KNOW what it going on and he was saying: You have no idea - but you are incorrectly confident that you know!

"If a person who thinks he knows realizes that he doesn't know - then he's a lot wiser than the person who doesn't know - but thinks he knows." - Osho Robbins
and you can quote me on that!

[the9thGate]

Osho I see what you are saying regarding truth, perception and reality but if Mike Tyson were to punch anybody in the face; they would feel pain....there is no question of relativity and differential truth there...a punch is going to hurt..and as far as evidence is concerned...the person who was on the receiving end would have either the bruises, the concussion or worse to prove it was painful.

[VVIP]

"If a person who thinks he knows realizes that he doesn't know - then he's a lot wiser than the person who doesn't know - but thinks he knows." - Osho Robbins

Osho,

According to your "most current mindset", which of the two categories do you currently see yourself to be in?

[VVIP]

......and you can quote me on that!

If a quote has some worth, people will like it and possibly also quote it. One doesn't have to ask or beg others to quote him/her.

[777]

There is not the slightest connection with failing satsangis

if so, Gurinder would be dead !

This is the modifying of world karma
Like avoiding W III
which indeed happened to be the case
with the very clever "U turn" of Barack against Congress

Wishing the RSSB initiated a lot of mind numbness

and the others merry christmas

777

[june schlebusch]

Well I certainly hope you are right about the WW 111 bit. I always find your comments very kind, and encouraging. Peace and Blessings from me as well to all and sundry.