« Embrace with joy life's "one damn thing after another" | Main | Interesting take on how Shin Buddhism supports social activism »

June 26, 2013


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

The ex-satsangi writer was lucky to get de-programmed so quickly after just 7 or 8 years of involvement with RSSB. It took me a few decades from the date of my first satsang in the summer of 1968 to wise-up. So, hats off to him.

He wrote:

"One way or another, I ended up in the Silverlake area of Los Angeles at the apartment of a somewhat dour, but not unlikable, woman named Mary Blakemore at a local "satsang."

My first encounter with RSSB and my first satsang was given by Mary Blakemore. I was invited to go by a friend. It was in the L.A. area for sure but I don't remember if it was a Silverlake apartment. She had a certain charisma and the teachings captivated my imagination rather than my reason. I purchased a copy of "Sar Bachan", sort of the bible of Sant Mat, at least the RSSB version of it.

After the Satsang we went to a vegetarian restaurant called H.E.L.P. which is now long gone but it was the hip veg restaurant in L.A. for a long time. I had steamed vegetables with a scoop of millet topped with chia seeds. I was sold that night in the summer of '68. The veg diet and the teachings just seemed right to me.

They say that once you form an emotional bond with a house when house-hunting, usually formed within the first few minutes of seeing it, you will rationalize away any negatives and buy it. That was how it was with me and Sant Mat.

The writer said he had a revelation after a number of years and experienced Sant Mat as "pure evil". I actually had that in the very beginning while reading Sar Bachan and some of the passages in it. But I had already bought the house and pushed those feelings, doubts and intuitions out of my mind. I wanted it to be real and true. So, I made it that way...for decades.

I heard Mary Blakemore developed her own following and moved away from L.A. to New Jersey or someplace and had her own little Sant Mat splinter group.

I actually ended up working at HELP for a while making sandwiches, but I wasn't fast enough (I sweated the details) so I was made dishwasher. There was no pleasing the very intense owner, Warren Stagg, and I flew the coop. The kitchen was pretty filthy and I wouldn't eat there after seeing what went on behind the swinging kitchen doors.

Your Ex-Satsangi came in at the right moment (???)

He said :!
""Standing in my living room, I felt an overwhelming wave of evil""

Funny , . that I just related to the same, 2 days ago
my phrase about what Swami Ji writes on page 302 and how
I also expirienced this blackness :
that I could -(the Mind could)-
easily and under the right stalin circumstances
everything devilish, we find everywhere described in history books . . . and much more !

This the catholic mystics from old said "the" dark night of the Soul"
this is perhaps unavoidable, . . anyway in my case , having done mass-murder
and remembering that

and I do not know for others
(I believe there are also many angels )
this is my advise :

If such deep awareness comes
and rivers of tears come also , because of it

( yes He just was standing in the room - but med is not only while sitting )
Go to the bottom, . . or better
go to where the Guide -out of necessity- brings you for a relatively short time
and I hesitate to say it in this group
do e your 5 swords - They are All Excaliburs.

The trampoline will after this experience bring you to heights you never dreamed they were possible

stopping the black
one also blocks the white

and more : you might live the rest of your life in fear of the devil you saw , next blaming the wrong one
and miss totally the purpose of this life

Try it again, . . stop name calling here

You are initiated

Most Satsangis don't want to be reborn
perhaps it's also the wish of most ex-satsangis
( if EX was possible )

That correspondant was really far already,
it happens INSIDE the first crooked tunnel

May karmas this time be more in line :)

There a a giant grand necessaty for this 'dark night' to happen before you
can't cross the eye of the needle
Realisations coming, experiences that a satsangi will dive in are so enormous

and go so together together with a majestic feelings
, yet if one deconnects a nano-second the link with the Guide, The Satguru
the mind seeing you comming back from meditations
starts nagging you with the thought of being God,
and seduce you to start your own RS group,
blocking you and what you ever collected it vanished to pseudo disci

If not those black experiences would occur beforhand
and you know for sure
you really are and were the Lowest scum
and filth of the earth

you have no possibity to tell the mind that you are not God
at least : that nothing of what IT ever established
has any value as compared with the vibrations
of the Shabad

I hope I was clear with my bad english
and avoided sciptures you are all allergic to

Perhaps my presence is for this writer, perhaps for Brian, perhaps for Gaz to tell his parents
perhaps only One reader

These Radha Soami Masters
are collosal

They and other Masters of the Sound are the meaning, the purpose of the universes

If there was only One per Galaxy
God had a Good time

Cheers again

Question :

I start to believe after only few weeks on this blog
that most writers are Not satsangis

If "initiated" by a pseudo saint
without any power
any negative result is possible

even if they gave the right words
there ios nothing
and one is victim of fraud

Before the eye of the needle
before the third Eye crooked tunnel,
way before entering
there is a profound silence

It's the place where the bible says God placed some cherubines
to keep us out
Symbolic talk it is around some perfect truth like in
the Bardo Todol

The Boddisatwas are our own desires

Yogis, priests and all kind of "practicioners"
might have approached that silence
or have heard of it
and they claim : "God is Silence"

and next start a spiritual business, . . of their own

The USA is a fruitful ground with classifieds in magazines :
"Be a millionair, start your own church in 3 months"

777, you consistently creep me out, brother!

Although I never had fireworks in Sant Mat meditation, after a meditation in the middle of the night (eg. 3 - 5am), I would go back to sleep and often experience some awesome lucid dreams, including those that might be considered 'out of body' experiences (although I never verified whether they were any more than just cool dreams, and I suspect that's what they were).

I've done some mindfulness meditation at about the same time, but without the lucid dreams.

Could it be that concentrative meditation (as opposed to observational meditation) enhances dream lucidity ? Who knows.

I refuse to accept that humans are categorized whether they are satsangis or not.
Moreover you think that there are Saints and Pseudo Saints.
It is pure romance to think that there are humans who are saints.
There are no saints at all. It’s fiction. It’s business.
You are believing in fairy tales.
And – to use your own words – you are a victim of fraud.

It’s your brain which does all these stories. Your experiences are pure imagination. It’s fact that the brain is able to produce hallucinations. Step out of your bubble and have a look!

Thank You Sceptic

Have you ever seen a diamond
that is - a appearance of a say a 3 dimensional kind of 'object'

not as described a flash - although they come flashy but not with the random of a flash
but yes a "suddenly" appearance

but more stable

stable that is that although it's half a second at the start,
the observer sees an enless clarity in the thing
and you have even time to do some study about it

Of course these phenomenae are different per person
but my wife and I had that once in a while at the start
and my wife saw immediately Sawan Singh in it
who 'saved' her at her raping incident in 1947 in now Pakistan

I said diamond s because of the extreme clearness
as if the resolution is a billino x a billion
although it's analogue, no pixels :)
and it has volume

It was the beginning on the light side

like the extreme light at the end of the tunnel

For satsangis
itr is what the Bardo Todol says exactly in the middle of the book

On a forum like this , it would be nice if Charan-Gurinder initiated writers would start with: #

Beam me Up Scotty

Tony , in my case but opposed to the forum-tenure
the strenth, the Power is in those words - 24/7

and in the person who gave them
from who do you have them?

Brian, maybe you should start a blog about the Sant Mat religion because there are a lot of disciples and ex-disciples who need to vent, but most of what they say is lost on the unititiated. Church of the Churchless should be non-denominational.

I can't speak for anybody else but in my personal experience; after all my reading and praying and meditation (maybe not the sufficient amount according to some and I agree somewhat);all I can say is...I have not reached any closer to the ideals I once had as a young person, my fantasies were there to be broken; I dreamt up some idyllic scenario where I have a soul which can be romanced; I felt more love and longing in my lonely frustration than I did in the company of a thousand satsangi's; in spite of whatever love and longing I felt I am none the wiser, not even half the man I feel I should be in terms of spiritual development. Perhaps this is my purpose. I could play my role on this Earth cheerfully but then I would not be doing it any service as the cynic I have been born to play. A cynic that secretly hopes to be wrong everyday. Goodnight all

You can't die anymore, no joke.
Religion is dead.


that is a beautiful name
i would say : the highest
if there was any highest :)

[email protected]

Brian, hope you will post this, a bit off topic but as a Charan initiate, this is now where I am at...

to the9thGate - I think, or maybe I should say I feel, that you will enjoy this movie... taking back your power...

THE COSMIC GIGGLE (full film) (1:03:54)


A documentary film that explores the human energy field’s dynamic relationship with our environment…

"The Cosmic Giggle is a randomly roving zone of synchronicity and statistical anomaly.

Should you be caught up in it, it will turn reality on its head.

It is objective and subjective, simultaneously “really there” and yet somehow sustained by imagination and expectation."

Quote: Terence McKenna

My name is hope Smith from united states of america. I never believed in love spells or magic until i met this spell caster once when i went to Africa in February this year on a business summit. I meant a man who’s name is Dr johnson oracle he is really powerful and could help cast spells to bring back one’s gone, lost, misbehaving lover and magic money spell or spell for a good job or luck spell .I’m now happy & a living testimony cos the man i had wanted to marry left me 3 weeks before our wedding and my life was upside down cos our relationship has been on for 3years. I really loved him, but his mother was against us and he had no good paying job. So when i met this spell caster, i told him what happened and explained the situation of things to him. At first i was undecided, skeptical and doubtful, but i just gave it a try. And in 7 days when i returned to Canada, my boyfriend (now husband) called me by himself and came to me apologizing that everything had been settled with his mom and family and he got a new job interview so we should get married. I didn’t believe it cos the spell caster only asked for my name and my boyfriends name and all i wanted him to do. Well we are happily married now and we are expecting our little kid, and my husband also got the new job and our lives became much better. His email is ([email protected])

Brian, aren't his experiences examples of what RS is talking about? Granted they didn't come during meditation, but he claims to have experienced the astral form of the master no?

"I felt an overwhelming wave of evil and that evil was associated with Radhasoami; I experienced the entire RS Master/Initiate relationship as sinister and manipulative."

Isn't this the negative power? Doesn't this happen when a satsangi is getting very close to full inner realisation of self? I often think when I read your postings Brian, that you as well as others like tucson reached some kind of threshold where Kal really started to take notice. Just like this fella quoted in this thread.

Also, when I read about satsangis wanting to commit suicide because it all gets too much. It gets difficult and we do get pushed to the limit but even if we do have doubts and want to chuck it all in, its a choice and we can just keep going with an unknowing attitude. Having an open mind and 'Not knowing' really helps imo.

I think there is also pressure to conform to the scientific viewpoint and anyone who experiences anything different is put down and told to use the reasoning, logical side of the brain. So we keep our silence and use the intuitive part of the brain with logic and reason, balance in all things. Also comment here on your blog Brian :)

Observer Iread your comment with interest..I followed the sound current and got to a{place, Point?} not sure what, but knew it would lead somewhere..I did not like the direction it was leading as I did not like what I was becoming..I,m more comfortable with The Cloud of Unknowing..I just can't trust a man to determine my direction anymore.

observer, wow... you're using the "devil made me do it" argument? I realize this is a favorite of Christians, but geez, it makes no sense.

If we want to go down the supernatural route, it seems a lot more likely that the Positive Power, God, showered her grace on me to keep me from being deluded about her divine nature.


I guess you were waiting for one of your 'watch dogs' to chase me off with some kind of abusive comment.

No, as you very well know, I'm not talking about the devil from the Bible, but the negative power, Kal, which is mind.

It's not the 'supernatural route' its about you 'changing' your mind about the path of Sant Mat. You now believe you have woken up.

I know you don't believe in a supernatural god in some heaven showering divine grace at her every whim. Neither do I. So, sarcasm aside, you do seem to believe now that you were deluded in following Sant Mat.

I agree that Sant Mat seems very fanciful and our reasoning mind rejects so much of the belief system that it prescribes. This is why I choose the 'not knowing' path.

observer, so you've never changed your mind about anything in your life? And if you did, you consider that this was the doing of a "negative power"?

Wow. I consider open-mindedness to be a positive power.

Also, you do realize that choosing the "not knowing" path is a choice by the mind, don't you? Or are you the only human in the world who can write blog comments without a mind?

Since the mind is the brain in action, if you say "yes" to that last question, you're saying you don't have a functioning brain.


I consider an 'open' mind to be an 'unknowing' mind. You consider an open mind to be a positive power. Maybe what you see as positive may actually be negative, as in you have now defined in your mind that Sant Mat is totally wrong.

Yes, of course I still use the mind, just like you and of course I have changed my mind and my opinions many times. I am also aware that the mind is very tricky.

The difference is that I have not 'made up my mind' that Sant Mat is totally right or totally wrong.

Thanks for clarifying. We agree! I'm not 100% sure about anything. I certainly haven't made up my mind about Sant Mat, not completely. I still hope some or all of the Sant Mat teachings are true, because that would be super great for my afterlife.

I just base my life on probabilities, as we all do. The probability Sant Mat, or any religion, is true/correct strikes me as very low. So until I see evidence that changes my mind, I'll keep on living my life accordingly.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.