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September 21, 2012


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Thanks for this very beautiful story,
encouraging that every little thing has meaning..


Some people enter a kind of darkness or dark void in their NDE which transforms later on into a light at the end of a tunnel. It sounds like the same experience here.

He makes a mountain of words out of a molehill of a notion.

"This was not intellectual reasoning, careful thought or persuasion. It was that deep dark death where something greater made something clear -- without talk or inner thoughts. This was not “me” reflecting or thinking. It was something bigger in nature, it was that greater something within. It entered and the effect was the same. What I now think of as death, it is all motion stopping, darkness, quiet, still; something takes control and makes its point. It's that something bigger in nature, god, a higher power."

-----Well what exactly is the it, mentioned over and over again. The wordage is a good dualistic narrative. We need to have an updated discussion on what an experience is. In addition, what a supposed spiritual experience is or is not.

Dear mK,

When you say "The goal is perfection": of what is this the "goal"? Of you (= "mK")? Of me (= "RPH")? Of us all (even those who do not read Brian's blog)? Of some "god," or of some more fundamental (or inclusive) entity than either/both/all of us? Why need this ~whatever-it-is~ be pursuing some "goal" which is not (apparently) already present?

Robert Paul Howard

Thank you mK, for your courage in sharing your story with us. It's not an easy thing to do.

I understand the wordiness (as mentioned by another), it's difficult to convey the depth of a personal experience, the nuances of interaction with our thoughts. I would, however, caution against jumping to any black and white conclusions about it. All of our experience, ordinary or EXTRAordinary, is subjective to our own state of mind and belief system at the time, no matter how vaguely grasped at. We interpret through the only framework we have available, what's already inside our heads.

I also agree with RPH's quibbles about perfection. It's a left over religious notion which is meaningless. If we ever achieved this imagined perfect state of being we'd be like statues, dead, unmoving... And consciousness is ever on the move.

But hey, something is going on, something more than we see on the surface of things. These events help push us onwards to discover what it is :-)

"But hey, something is going on, something more than we see on the surface of things."

--Yes, something could possibly be going on, more than we see on the surface. But, what surface of a particular thing, are you referring? I'm not finding fault with you. Oh, and what is the difference between a personal and a spiritual experience?

[Note: mK, the author of what was shared in this post, wasn't able to share a comment due to an overseas corporate firewall. It was emailed to me. Here it is. -- Blogger Brian]
I can only apologize for the length of the post - I was trying to give
enough background so you could look at and understand this experience the way I did. Cropping it down to a single paragraph would have detracted from the tremendous impact it had on me - it would've been easy to discount by the wave of a hand.

The "perfection" was a standard, or benchmark, against which my
actions were being judged. If simply defined that perfection would
have to be called love. Yes, a universal standard with the goal being
to advance away from materiality towards a spiritual domain. This is a
common theme with most religions.

I was hoping that some of you may have had similar experiences,
something that would help me put this into perspective. In particular
I appreciate David's comment that my deep dark thing may turn into a
light at the end of the tunnel - now there's a thought!

And I couldn't agree more with Deb about such experiences being
presented within the context of my own current beliefs and
understandings. Can there be more than one "truth?" I think not but
certainly many different presentations of that truth.

In a nut shell; I use to be intellectually disposed towards the ideas
of karma and reincarnation but now I feel as if I "know" these are
facts. The deep dark thing troubled me because it's so unlike what
everyone else reports.

And finally, what do I do with that now? Knowing the truth about anything doesn't mean anything unless you can apply it somehow.

Again, I do appreciate all your comments and opinions.

The deep dark place will not always be the same it can become light also or something totaly different.
Nothing is always the same.
Every meditation is different in my exp.
So nothing is a fast thing.
I found it an inspirational'letter'/exp.
When one flows..it flows..nothing hard and fast..
The experience was beautiful in my vieuw.
And I agree with you about Love..(the real)..

Roger, you asked about the difference between spiritual and personal. These days I don't think of life as being divided up this way. It's a holistic experience, for reasons we consciously have no inkling of. Well I'm assuming that, maybe there is the odd exceptional person who arrives knowing just why they're here.

And by the surface of things, I meant the physical existence we can see, the being born, living, breathing, dying... What we often assume to be a finite existence in the flesh, unless we're aiming at a bit of harp playing in the stratosphere.

I'm reading a totally crazy/brilliant book right now (the jury is still out), and some it it is reminding me of your word's mK.


Thanks Deb,

Could a personal experience and a holistic experience be the same? Oh, and is there a separate spiritual experience?

Thanks for your continued comments. You seem very honest and sincere.

Hi again Roger,

"Could a personal experience and a holistic experience be the same? Oh, and is there a separate spiritual experience?"

It seems to me that each of us can only see through our own perspective. We can try to take on another person's perspective, but it can never be the same. So every experience we have is personal to us, even though it may be an event that others take part in.

We can put these experiences, as we see them, in different boxes if we like (spiritual, etc.), but in the end it's all our own personal life experience, seen through our eyes.

Sharing is great though. I've really learned to appreciate my own innate intelligence and sanity by being forced to confront the half-baked notions of others. Heh, heh, only kidding :)

Have I answered your question, or have I missed what you were driving at?

Thanks for the Monroe link, Deb. It presents a completely different perspective on similar experiences.

Your experience are inline with people in an isolation tank, when one is deprived of all senses and the mind comes to a stop...you will notice being embraced in darkness...

Most will be scare and seek the light, but it is those who has the courage to face the darkness, embrace it and see what it shows you, will start to understand a part of this world that is hidden.

Embrace the darkness my friend, for its is from darkness the light is born. Do not be scared, do not resist or hide, do not lead or imagine - just watch it in all stillness and you will see what you might be seeking.

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