"Magic" of Sant Mat guru-hypnotists explained

Hypnotism works. Sadly. Otherwise I would have spent the past forty-two years believing that I looked just like a young Paul Newman.

Below you'll find an email message I received a few days ago from someon who persuasively argues that what Sant Mat gurus do is take advantage of quasi-hypnotic suggestibility. Devoted disciples are told, over and over, that the guru has divine powers. They're also told, over and over, that they will experience certain mystical lights and sounds under the guru's direction.

Not surprisingly, some disciples say they've had such experiences. Then those tales get added to the store of Guru is God teachings, which are taught to more disciples. And the game goes on.

I say "game" because there is no demonstrable proof that either the guru is divine, or meditation experiences of his disciples truly reflect knowledge of higher realms of reality. Such proof would be necessary for Sant Mat to deserve the title of "Science of the Soul" that it wishes to claim.

Genuine science isn't certain of outcomes. Genuine science, in fact, is uncertain, open to unexpected findings, doubtful of dogmatism and just have faith. Yet faith in the guru usually is considered to be essential if a disciple is to have mystical experiences of the guru's divinity.

A form of hypnotism could be at work here. As it was during an assembly at Santa Clara High School, where I had a job as a counselor's aide for a few months after graduating with my B.A. in Psychology from San Jose State College.

The gym was filled with students watching a hypnotist do his thing. He brought a female student up on stage and hypnotized her. Then she was instructed, "Go find Paul Newman in the audience." She wandered down the gym floor, gazing up into the bleachers as she walked.

I was in the second or third row. She paused when she reached my section of the gym, then stepped onto the bleachers that separated us, put her arms around my neck, and hugged me. Made my day! (More than that, actually, since I still have such fond memories of the event.)

Maybe I was as good-looking as a youthful Paul Newman was back then. Or, more likely, I was one of the older looking males in the audience who the girl wasn't already familiar with (teachers, administrators). Whatever... I wasn't Paul Newman, but the girl gave every sign of believing that I was.

Here's the message from someone who is familiar with devoted disciples believing their guru is God. Seemingly equally mistakenly.

Hey Brian,

Every year or so I find myself reading a few articles on your church of the churchless. And every year or so I always feel like sending you an email straight away to thank you for your time and energy in sharing your analysis of the situation.

I resonate 100% with everything you say. I like honesty at all costs.

I just wanted to ask whether you have covered – what I feel is the key concept of the trickery – the fact that one’s subconscious will provide whatever we secretly desperately wish for as an inner light show – as admitted by Baba Faqir Chand.

I myself have had direct experience of a lucid dream with spectacular affects involving a sikh gentleman (provided by my subconscious half heartedly at first) which my subconscious (knowing my prior programming with the Sant mat long (philosophical) induction script quickly turned into “Gurinder Singh” for me.

However, my dedication to truth caused me to take another look at what was going on behind my desperation and I quickly but reluctantly realised that I was being played by myself and the Sant Mat Hypnotists. Not many have the honesty to turn down the ego gratification of “a self centered inner visual experience” for the scientific/psychological reality of the phenomena – there is not as much happy hormones released at the truth behind the phenomena in relation to the scenario that one might actually be one of the chosen ones!

Hence when I read the “How do you know I am a guru” article, the key deception will work something like this. You would need to meditate to see me inside to know that I am the true guru.

Now knowing how the subconscious works, the Fake guru who has been handed down the secret of the subconscious from his cohorts in crime (previous gurus) knows full well that after some time the more hypnotic of his followers will start seeing him inside and due to word of mouth the rest of the sheep (who literally see nothing) will blindly follow out of peer pressure and desperation.

So that’s it in a nut shell. No big deal. Guru spell (God’s Spell – Gospel) broken by logical analysis. I feel this needs to be the “Headline article”.

I have been meaning to get onto pub med and finding if the psychology community have done any research into the subconscious in relation to these inner visions. I have also wanted to see if pub med can deliver any research on the phenomena of hypnosis – as I feel this is the key to dispelling a lot of the trickery that has existed since the dawn of time.

In fact part of me seems to suspect that the psychology people have not spent as much time on this hypnosis phenomena as they should have due to conspiratorial reasons. E.g. black ops, taking all such work into secret study, as such knowledge is useful for controlling large masses of people in national politics via the media etc. etc. etc. The ugliness has no end to it!

Once again wishing you well. Stay healthy – it makes life so much less painful and good luck with that gum graft! [Note: that was three and a half years ago, my gums are all better now -- Brian]

P.S. It takes chains of steel to enslave a rational human, but all the rest may be enslaved by a belief.

(I told my email correspondent that "priming" is another psychological process that could explain how disciples believe they are experiencing something that isn't really there. Here's an article about it.)

Comments

[Osho Robbins]

The hypnosis is kept in place by 'satsangs'. What is satsang? It is simply one preacher on stage, using scriptures and quoting them to convince the audience (the believers) that the path they are on is the truth. They already want to believe and the weekly dose of satsang keeps the belief topped up.
Then, those who want to play a greater part and feed their ego become sevadars, secretaries, and preachers. They pretend they are elevated and they believe they are doing god's work.
The longer you stay in the belief circle, the more convincing it becomes. The disciple becomes 100% convinced that sant mat is the truth. That is all hypnosis is. When you believe something to be true - it becomes true for you and you live your as if it really is true. This applies to all religions - not just sant mat.

[Laura]

I'm pretty sure God is part of the dopamine reward cycle.

[Robert Searle]

I think that whatever ones sees within as being ones "Master" can ofcourse be a deception, and a projection of the mind. In other instances, it maybe an "entity" pretending to be ones Guru. But for someone who may be "purer" than other people it could be a manifestation of the Higher Self manifesting Itself in the guise of ones Master. What is interesting here that the Guru concerned does not even have to be Perfect in terms of reputation, or character. This is indicated by Faqir Chand. Moreover, it could be said that everyone has a Perfect Master, or Higher Self which can communicate to us as any living, or dead Teacher such as Christ, Buddha, Kabir, Dayal Singh, et cetera. In other words, there are complex psycho-spiritual dynamics at work, and only by going "within" can we find out.

[Andrea]

so what about people, like me, who saw the inner light and had inner visions just sitting on meditation the first time i met my Master without knowing him and without knowing nothing about the standard experiences that are explained in sant mat?
i just sat in meditation, closed my eyes, without knowing simran, santmat theories, santmat teachings or teachers, and i had the experiences. I meditated many times before, but it was totally different.
What is the scientific explaination of this? For suggestion you must have something to suggest you, and i had not.

[Brian Hines]

Andrea, are you saying you just ran into your Master on the street, having no knowledge of who he was? I doubt this is what happened. I suspect you knew he supposedly was a spiritual being, with some unusual powers/characteristics?

Am I right?

Do you think a Sant Mat skeptic, like my wife, would have had the same experiences in meditation you did? My wife met the guru, close up, and felt nothing.

I can't explain your personal experience. But lots of people hear inner sounds and see inner lights. These are physical goings-on in the brain. (Inner sound is called "tinnitus.") What makes you sure that your experience was of something supernatural?

Please share in as much detail as possible what you saw and heard. That would help me, and others, understand your experience.

[Roger]

I wonder what a highly detailed described experience, one truthfullly sincerely gives, is going to amount to much. So, I have an incredible vocabulary and gift of GAB. So, what is the BIG DEAL? Open honest discussions are nice, don't get me wrong, however talk, written wordage, videos, etc. are still all relative and dualistic. Again, my famous phrase: What's the Big Deal!!!!!

[RSSBBabajiG-via-hotmail]

Yes, RSSB Satsangis, one & all, I have now joined with you within this realm of cyber-consciousness.

And now, having finally found a means of actually connecting with you, it is my intention to begin to correct many misunderstandings which have arisen due to the idiosyncratic nature of my RSSB Mastership.

First, I must tell you that perhaps the most salient part of my training in RSSB Mastership was in the art of such ancient psycho-religious systems as that of HUNA which, specifically, you will find clearly elucidated by such scholars as Max Freedom Long.

Now, RSSB satsangis, you will NOT find reference to this central part of my RSSB Mastership training in any RSSB texts. So, please, do not waste more time & effort seeking any such knowledge there. For, in Truth, Satsangis, RSSB literature is for the masses and you will find little real wisdom within these mass publications.

As such, I suggest you now all turn to such informative texts as that by Max Freedom Long, 1948: The Secret Science Behind Miracles. You will find a ready download at sacred-texts.com. In digesting this & similar texts it is my belief that you will begin to understand how my Mastership actually works in practice. For, you must understand precisely this in order to even begin to make progress.

Honest seeking, that is now the name of the game, Satsangis. Honest Seeking! And that also goes for your venerable Master.

Radha Soami.

RSSBBabajiG-via-Hotmail

[tAo]

RSSBBabajiG-via-hotmail,

you are, most certainly, full of shit... which means you're a mastershit - alos know as a babbling buffoon. and your screws are all loose, and you're missing some marbles.

[David R]

I think precognition explains the phenomenon of people meditating or dreaming of some personage they later attribute some spiritual significance to like one of the gurus.

Aside from the materialist/atheist/skeptic persuasion of this blog, many people experience precognitive phenomena every day and i would venture to say that it is the most abundant psychic phenomena that exists in this world that almost every single person experiences in their life, whether or not they want to admit it.

It is completely irrevelent whether there are theories about precognition from skeptical viewpoints. It happens, it is a fact. So theories about it don't matter at all. Neither proponents or detractors of this experience have adequate explanatory theories of why or how it occurs. It is safe to say, therefore, that based on the fact that it does occur, it is possible to postulate that certain memories in people's meditative experiences of gurus are legitimate - even if that person doesn't remember having seen that guru before.

[Brian Hines]

David, tell me what the stock market will do every day for the next three months. If that comes true, I'll be happy to believe in precognition. Also, I'll be pleased to send you 10% of my profits. Only caveat is, you have to cover all of my losses if you're wrong. Willing to bet on the reality of precognition?

[RSSBBabajiG-via-hotmail]

Tao

How right you are, I am most definitely a Master-Shit.

However, Tao, always remember, I am a very rich Master-Shit!

RSSBBabajiG-via-Hotmail

[cc]

"It is completely irrevelent whether there are theories about precognition from skeptical viewpoints. It happens, it is a fact."

I knew you were going to say that.

[Moongoes]

You don't haffi dread to be rasta!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QVWyBtJaxQ

[Andrea]

sorry if i answer only now
the first time i met the person that then i accepted as my Master, i only knew he was a man who organized spiritual retreats of meditation, nothing more nothing less. Nobody told me he was a "guru", he was enlightened, God-man or wathever. Nobody told me of inner planes, spiritual experiences, light and sound. I did meditation many times in my life before meeting him and it was totally different that day and the rest of the week. My wife (at that time she was my girlfriend) experienced the same, and also a woman who went with us and that we know since many years before. And i've seen many times the same thing happening, many times it comes people for the first time without knowing anything and these experiences happened. Many people see the Master inside or also the past masters without never seeing them. How is that possible that someone describes clearly Baba Sawan Singh, then we show him a photo and they see "oh, it was this man, who he is??"
I see this, and there is no explaination.

[Andrea]

p.s. my inner experiences also that first time were not just light and sound, i saw many things, people who i had not met yet (then i met) such as the wife of my Guru and her physical problem at her leg (and nobody told me anything about that). I had many complex visions of things, some of them were about people i met after that, or details of the past of things i never heard about. So it was not just tinnitus or brain jokes. And i did meditation for many years before, and it was totally different. Also if you see the light one time over 1000 and then all in a sudden you see every time for hours, and nobody told you "this is a meditation to see light, you will see it" what's the explanation?

[Andrea]

p.s. i'm not affiliated with beas satsang, i never was there, and nobody in beas knows me OR my master.

[tucson]

Andrea,

Assuming you are not making any of this up I think the explanation is that you are "psychic".

The validity/reality of your master, inner experiences, the continuation of consciousness after death, a soul, etc. can't be known by anyone but you no matter what you say.

My personal view is that consciousnes is eternal, individuality (self-soul) is purely conceptual and is not.

What the word "consciousness" means to me in this context may differ from others. "Spirit" could also be used and a number of others.

[RSSBBabajiG-via-hotmail]

... Yo ! You're da Warren-G's cousin homeboy ? GSD's gonna be shit pissed off ya, you messin' wid his name, heya, in the Churchless hood. My bro tAo, he's got it goin' on. He's damn right, you're fulla crap that ain't cool. Gin and juice ?

Tara - and also brother Tao - how I've always admired your comments & likewise here, for you Tara have made me laugh & I love to laugh. This is simply one of your very best, so direct, so clear, so explicit.

Yet, tell me Tara, quite WHO is messing with WHO's name - is that God-in-human-form we're talking about? Ah, I guess that must be WHO you are refering to. However, having now begun undertaking some HONEST SEEKING I have to say that 'I' have yet to meet that particular form ... although I have to admit, it is God that I do now see in everyone & everything.

Radha Soami, my once-upon-a-time Satsangi, hopefully we will meet again one day.

RSSBBabajiG-via-Hotmail

[Andrea]

tucson, i did not said nothing about what i BELIEVE about my master etc... i just wrote what HAPPENED with him the first time i met him, and without knowing nothing about him, his path and his teachings. So it's wrong (i have this proof) to say that you see the light and have such experiences because you believe that you must have and they comes by suggestions. I was not suggested by anything but i had. More important was the effect they had in me, i changed my life totally.
But this is a different story.

[BruceS]

Power of 'suggestion' & how it clearly is seen to work in Sant Mat/RSSB ... isn't it precisely what FakirC talks about vis-a-vis it being a seeker's desire which is the real motivator/catalyst to inner progess.

Doesn't the Fakir say that the real 'power/energy' - in any guru/seeker's relationship - lies in the individual's belief in a 'some-thing' which, as suggested to him by an/any-significant-other, has some sort of higher power which it is then believed will aid him in his seeking?

So, guess with RSSB, could be said that it is this suggestion-belief process which - if anything - functions as catalyst for an individual's inner/spiritual progress ... which, pretty much clarifies then the role of the Master/Babaji.

So asking, could RSSB satsangis et al do just as well without a Master/a Babaji?

Answer probably, that is for most of the sangat, has got to be not! And why? Simply because it is well documented that for your average punter the very process-of-suggestion & it's 'power' as catalyst works best - just as FakirC says - if it comes complete with some physical component/physical placebo. So, just as with our medics, and their sugar pills ... guess RSSB Babaji is sweet for some but lethal, maybe, for the odd diabetic et al!

[tucson]

And Charan Singh would say, "I am only a humble servant of the sangat." or "I am just obeying the orders of my master." In fact, I am not aware of him making a claim to spiritual status of any kind. He didn't need to. The sangat (believers) did it for him.

[just me]

" I don't know of any other religion / sect that glorifies the " living " Guru as much as RS / RSSB does."

The Pope is worshiped by the Catholics as a living representative of their faith.. Jesus.. God.

Jesus was the living guru in his time and is still glorified as the 'only son of God' in the Christian religion.

[Andrea]

nobody gave to me an explaination on how suggestion worked for me IF it was present :-)

[tucson]

The Pope is believed to be God's representative. Jesus is believed to be God's son. But the RSSB guru is believed to actually be God. Case closed.

[tAo]

Well that RSSB guru must be an imposter.

Because its a well known fact, and there's simply no doubt about it, that Lemmy is God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5F7uhCIBco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UsMQSeoxUM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awpyaz58ytg

[just me]

Thing is... people willingly give themselves over to their 'faith', belief systems and all sorts of nonsense, so who is to blame!

There are those who have a healing experience from touching a statue or visiting a sacred site or looking into a guru's eyes. It's like a placebo effect but they don't want to have the responsibility of believing in their own power.

We are conditioned from birth to believe that others are the experts in their own field so we look to others for guidance and yes, some people seem to be more powerful than others.

I don't blame the messenger. It's people who are silly enough to think that another person holds all the power, is the 'only son of god' or the only GIHF.

We all come from the same source and are made up of the same stuff.. we ARE the living matrix.. all connected. The saints or gurus whatever you wish to call them are beings who KNOW this, have experienced the oneness and they are simply the messengers to show us who we really are.

[tAo]

Those saints or gurus whatever you wish to call them don't know any more shit than anybody else. Its only fools who think that they really know something. Moreover, since "oneness" is merely an imaginary idea, there is no need for any so-called "messengers". Live Fast Die Old:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7oVnCgUY2Q

[7 months left]

Pure Land Buddhism vs. Sant Mat

Sant Mat is "Pure Land" buddhism (sometimes called "psuedo-buddhism"). Traditional buddhism may seem too daunting for the average person, thus Pure Land Buddhism was created.

Traditional Buddhism is the way to enlightenment by eliminating ignorance and attachment.

Many people feel unable to eliminate ignorance and attachment. The more we reflect upon ourselves, the more "unliberated" and hopeless we feel.

This leads to fear, worry and contraction and we sink into despair. Amida Buddha[the Master] provides a way for us to attain salvation from this hopeless state by means of the grace of Amida Buddha [the Master].

The Pure Land school opens the channel to attain salvation for anyone in a simple manner. It requires only the simple act of faith and recitation of the mantra as its primary religious disciplines rather than actually getting to the root of our false beliefs, attachments, and resistances to reality.

The Pure Land school [Sant Mat being one of them] may be called the way of salvation by a "power outside of ourselves," or "other power" ( the power of Amida Buddha [the Master]).

In Pure Land Buddhism we admit we cannot find our true nature by ourselves. Its revelation is by grace. Our salvation is dependent upon Amida Buddha. We believe that Amida and God are the same, but Amida also has a different aspect from that of God. Amida Buddha is not the creator or ground of all being but rather an intercessor. Belief in Jesus or Mohammed as a saving intercessor would be categorized as a form of Pure Land Buddhism which pre-dates these religions by several thousand years.

A later innovation of Pure Land Buddhism is to have a sacred book serve as the intercessor such as the Adi Granth, the Qu'ran, or rules of Judahism, though no doubt historians would likely find these practices in Pure Land Buddhism thousands of years ago.

The beauty of Pure Land Buddhism lies in its simplicity. To grasp emptiness with the mind is impossible. To hold onto Amida Buddha is do-able for anyone. Ramana Maharshi talks about using a thorn to remove a thorn. Similarly in Pure Land Buddhism one need only to hold on to the Master with firm conviction.

Pure Land practice:
1) Is relatively easy to practice in almost any environment: alone, with others, and even amid the hustle and bustle of everyday life.

2) There are no difficult entry-level criteria. Even if one’s abilities and knowledge are modest, with belief, vows, and practice, we will reach the Pure Land. We need to believe that by living a moral life and being mindful of Amitabha [Master] we will be born into the Western Pure Land and become a Buddha.

3) This method is simple.
We carry deep-seated bad habits and negative karmas.
Believers put their faith in Amitabha Buddha and recite his name, confident in the promises he has given to deliver all who invoke his name. All classes of people, whatever their shortcomings, are guaranteed salvation in the Pure Land [Sach Khand].

Traditional Buddhsim is utterly abstract and in fact inconceivable, so for most people this is the only way that buddhism can become comprehensible and of practical use.

Taking the Pure Land vows means a reorientation of belief and will. No longer is the purpose of life brute survival, fulfillment of a social role, or the struggle to wrest some satisfaction from a frustrating, taxing environment. Believers shift their focus. The joys and sorrows of this world become incidental, inconsequential. The present life takes on value chiefly as an opportunity to concentrate one’s awareness on Amitabha, and purify one’s mind accordingly.

The hallmark of Pure Land Buddhism is reciting the buddha-name.
This promotes devotional love. In the end love was always the way, thus Pure Land Buddhism can be a helpful step toward regaining a foothold to our loving nature.

[Roger]

PL Buddhism sounds more like the standard religious this and that. The reorientation of belief and will sounds rather corny. The taking of vows, again is corny.

"Believers put their faith in Amitabha Buddha and recite his name, confident in the promises he has given to deliver all who invoke his name"
---the standard religious "tease" of promising some sort of attainment for doing this and that.

[7 months left]

"Sounds like standard religion."

Yes, most standard religions are indeed forms of PL Buddhism. Offshoots you might say as PL pre-dates them by thousands of years.
Corny? To you, yes. To someone confused, despondent and a bit naive it can be a priceless jewel.

[tucson]

7 months left makes a good point. Religions may in the end be dualistic, purely conceptual and ultimately illusory, but some people are helped by them at crisis points in their lives. At least they are feeling and behaving better. Not bad, unless they become evangelists, jihadists or proselytizers...a hard word to spell.

[tucson]

Tara,
Yes, it was nice in the RS days to feel secure in the teachings, the master's guidance and protection, and the glory of heavenly realms to come, but in the end it turned out to be a selfish faith...devote as much time as possible to simran and bhajan to work out your own personal salvation and involve yourself in the world only as necessary to fullfill family obligations and earning a living. Any more worldly activity than that was seen as a waste of this human life. They would say "who knows when we will get this form again." So, it was all about me me me. Even service to the master (seva) was about me me me even though it was supposed to be done out of pure love for the master. But why does one love the master? Because of what he can do for me me me.

I think what you describe is a path that can be verified in the here and now! A good one to follow.

[7 months left]

The purpose of Pure Land teachings is reach the Western Paradise where the conditions to realize truth are more auspicious. For many in a confused and unhappy state, the eliminating of attachment, beliefs, grasping, resistance and ignorance is too daunting, too impossible, simply too much to even begin.

The compassionate teachings understand beliefs cannot be simply discarded easily by a desparate person. Instead, they are given a Super Belief, one that can be used to discard lesser beliefs.
This super-belief will make the ordinary struggles of life inconsequential. The beliefs in unworthiness, shame, lack, hurt … none of them matter anymore since the aspirant is assured of going to the Pure Land … what importance can such limited beliefs hold?

The wondrous part of it, is that once in the pure land even that super-belief drops. It too is seen as simply a no longer helpful tool on one's journey.

Many people are already in the Pure Land here and now. If you are what's left but gratitude?

[Roger]

pure land and super belief and wonderous parts, and compassionate teachings and one's journey --- well thought out teases.

[nietzsche]

I'm back on a kind of spirituality the way that I believe it can't be proved and I don't have to proof it. Science on its own can not make up for the whole picture of my existence. Spiritual systems can not either. I come to see that we need both and whenever there is a problem I use both visions and when they say something contradicting I search for more arguments and in the end I chose. I've given up the need to live in one world be it scientific or spiritual and I've come to see how often we fool ourself in taking a simplistic view for all there is or for taking our own imagination for gods.
But somewhere someone smiles down on me ;)

[tucson]

7 months left says there is a "journey", and that many people are "already in the Pure Land here and now."

How does one know if someone is in the Pure Land?

How does one journey to the here and now since we are already here and now?

Since the Pure Land is here and now, aren't all of us already there including the cockroach and the white tailed deer?

Now, just so it doesn't seem like I'm picking on 7 months left, I saw one day that everyone was indeed the Buddha playing their roles as if they didn't know it but really they did (this is impossible to explain). In this awareness it was possible to recognize those who were really and truly "awake". Lots of cats are Pure Land sages.

[7 months left]

The journey is from misery and suffering to love and peace. Love and peace, that is the Pure Land.
Heaven and hell are not places, they are conditions of consciousness.

Many people on this message board are in the Pure Land [condition of joy] I'm sure.

Yes, we were always there usually never recognizing it, always thirsty for something more, always resisting what is here now. Heaven is here now but if we resist it we can turn heaven into hell.

It reminds me of that quote from the film jacob's ladder. Something like, “if we resist and hold on, our death will seem like there are devils tearing us away from what we hold dear. If we make our peace and let go, those same devils will appear as angels freeing us from the earth.” It all depends on how you look at it.

[nietzsche]

I wanted to add something because I was unclear. My reaction was on tucson and Tara about the faith basket. My concept of spirituality right now has little to do with gods or guru's and certainly not the master. It is about the life force that we do hardly know. It seems this force is a part of existence just like magnets and electricity we just don't understand it yet. I have no need for new gods, we can life without them I do need air however and the whole science only model stops all 'prana' from flowing through me.

[Brian Hines]

Tara, ask these questions of your uncle:

"If a creator created creation, then doesn't there have to be a creator of the creator? And if there is a creator of the creator, then doesn't there have to be a creator of the creator of the creator?"

Follow-up: "Isn't it simpler to accept that the creation just is, always has been, and always will be? That is, if something has to be eternal, why not the evident creation, rather than a hypothetical creator?"