Uh-oh. God in Human Form doesn't like this blog.

Guess I'm doomed, salvation-wise. (Of course, I already knew that, having denied the Holy Spirit and embraced eternal damnation in exchange for a free DVD.)

Someone sent me some copies of Australian "Science of the Soul" newsletters, figuring that I might be interested in news about Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) -- the India based religious organization I was an active member of for over thirty years.

RSSB is led by a guru. The guru is believed to be God in Human Form.

So not surprisingly, whatever the guru says is taken very seriously by his devotees. Me, not so much. In fact, not at all any more.

Nonetheless, I was interested to read in the February 2012 newsletter that social networking sites and blogs have attracted the attention of God in Human Form.
Download Science of the Soul February 2012 

This how a newsletter item, "Correspondence Received from Dera" (RSSB headquarters), starts out:

With the increasing popularity of social networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter, as well as personal blogs and personal websites, the RSSB organization and the Master have been unwillingly drawn into an arena of endless chatter and frequent misinformation. Most of the individuals who actively participate in these discussions are innocent in their intentions.

They believe that these online discussions are somehow beneficial and that they can receive spiritual motivation, clarification, and inspiration through these chats. However we should not confuse these outside distractions with something of spiritual value. Such spiritual ideals are gained only through satsang, the reading of spiritual literature, simran, and meditation.

Interesting. 

Since 2004 I've written from time to time about my experiences with Radha Soami Satsang Beas. Not "endlessly," but fairly frequently. I'm not sure how the RSSB powers-that-be define "spiritual value." All I know is that I've gained a lot from writing about different approaches to spirituality, and learning how other people look upon these subjects.

RSSB publishes lots of books that are filled with lots of words. The RSSB guru gives lots of talks ("satsangs") that also are filled with lots of words. If you visit the Dera, headquarters of RSSB in the Punjab, you'll find people from both India and all over the world engaged in lots of conversations involving lots of words.

Yet somehow engaging in discussions, or reading, about spirituality on social networking sites and blogs is a no-no to the Radha Soami Satsang Beas organization.

Oh, except when the sites are run by RSSB. The last paragraph of this newsletter item says:

In order to inform people of Master's views on this matter, a decision was taken to put up official pages for RSSB, SOS/SSRC, SMRF, and Baba Gurinder Singh [the guru] on Facebook and other social networking sites. In this way, individuals participating in online discussions on Sant Mat and the Master will have an opportunity to view offically sponsored pages rather than become confused by sites which appear official but are not.

So the message is, online discussions aren't spiritually helpful, but if you're going to use the Internet in an attempt to juice up your spirituality, head to the official social networking RSSB sites (which don't seem to be active yet).

Thus if you're reading this, and are a RSSB disciple who believes the guru is God in Human Form, you'd better click your way elsewhere. However, if you want to live dangerously and risk damnation, read on.

What I disagreed most with is the statement that "spiritual ideals are gained only through satsang, the reading of spiritual literature, simran, and meditation." This is an other-worldly attitude that bothered me even when I was active in the RSSB organization.

("Simran" basically is mantra meditation, the repeating of a word or words to the exclusion of other thoughts.)

I no longer believe that spirituality, whatever that word means, can be separated from everyday life. Now I reasonate much more with the chop wood, carry water philosophy of Buddhism and Taoism. Anything, anywhere, at any time can be a "spiritual ideal" -- again, whatever those two words mean.

I've known RSSB disciples who paid little attention to their family (spouse and/or children), yet considered themselves to be saint-like when they headed off to India to spend weeks with the guru, doing what they thought was "selfless service" via volunteer work and meditation.

Well, selflessness and service begin right at home.

If we can't be decent with our family and friends in everyday life, or while interacting with other people on the Internet, what makes us think we're gaining anything from the "spiritual value" the newsletter says can only be gained through religious talks, reading of spiritual literature, and meditation?

But, hey, this is just my opinion, expressed on my blog. If you trust in the RSSB guru, you won't find anything of value in what I've said here, or in any comments left by other people. 

On the other hand, you might want to make up your own mind about what provides spiritual value, and what doesn't. Just a suggestion.

Comments

[David C. Lane]

Excellent points. Beas has been suspicious of the internet from day one. Why? Because it cannot be controlled.

And if there is anything that seems characteristic of Gurinder's management style (rightly or wrongly) it is his overarching control of all things related to Beas...... and, of course, cheese (jk).

[tucson]

The Beas gurus do indeed exert "overarching control". Charan Singh, back in the early '80's, prohibited near-beer when satsangis (devotees) expressed interest in it as a refreshing beverage alternative to real beer (prohibited). Being nearly a near-beeraholic, which I guess was Charan's point, I was quite disappointed.

[Adrian Mendoza]

"Well, selflessness and service begin right at home."

You are so right with this phrase, hope everybody could read it and understand it, thanks.

[dj1]

Old news Brian;borrringgg.

[Brian Hines]

dj1, what do mean, "old news"? This news is from February 2012, pretty darn new news.

[nietzsche]

Misinformation on the internet that would be like everyone is wrong except for me. Okay the internet does not support godly revelations. It has to be based on arguments and observable facts or major opinions but to say that the internet misinforms is just beside the truth. The matter of fact is that these religious organizations misinform with the intend to mislead their followers. So we might declare this argument applicable to the person that uses it ;)

Endless chatter depends on how you see it. I am slowly letting go of a lot of old believes through this chatter. Last week it was easter here and I suddenly understood my own fear when these christian days come up fear because in my christian days I would feel inspired, I would feel a holy spirit in my life a force of nature while in all the days of RSSB I would experience the powerlessness of it, I would experience the being mislead the believing in a non exiting god. How sad that is. This endless chatter it opened my eyes. Let this Gurinder chap perform a miracle with his godly powers, let him proof something send me to hell or so don't matter what just some little power..

[Robert Paul Howard]

Dear Brian,

For any slight value my addititional comment/opinion adds, I also agree with what you have concluded. I have long thought that way. (And I have never hidden behind some phoney name when making any of my remarks to/for you or others on your blogs.)

Robert Paul Howard

[Betty]

Brian,

Read/heard this some time ago. So this news has, indeed, been circulating for maybe 4-6 months?? It may have been in one of the bi-monthly, single-sheet bulletins available at Satsang. (My memory these days if fairly sketchy... sigh, the frustrations of getting old.)

I think the Correspondence from the Dera was directed toward groups of people who blogged very favorably of Babaji....that is, about their love and devotion. Inspired. They post(ed) poems, songs, shabds, pictures of Charan, themselves as at Dera 30 years ago, etc. Well, all very effusive, warm, and loving. But still, errrr..... pretty theatrical. The great theater of the WEB.

Betty

[Dogribb]

Pass the rennet please

[Manny]

Excellent endless chatter-chatter from you on this RSSB Social Networking & Blogs debate - It makes sense what you say Brian! RSSB joined on the Internet Highway!! Gives no "Spirtual Value"! Oh! Power of Brian's Hines Church of the Churchless Blog must be giving value to the seekers for enlightment!-
Enjoy your web!
What about the web site www.sydneyprogramme.org, when looked up on whois.com its not registered to RSSB but an American Hosting Company in America - but says it official RSSB? Beas has moved to the Americas?
Universe (Almighty) Creator, the One doesnot want humans from around world to attend an Australian programme this JULY! - will they be kicked out of the venue by the organisers and sent to hell?
Where are thoses Christian values of being decent folk in society when taught at schools to us I ask myself.

[Tom]

Brian this was not meant for this blog for sure the news were meant for other many facebook and other pages.Don't unnecessarily twist around.The news was not for your blog-

[Brian Hines]

Tom, what makes you think that praising the glory of the guru on this blog is different from praising the glory of the guru on other blogs or web sites?

The directive from the Dera doesn't single out particular blogs or web sites. Are you saying that this blog is particularly favored by God in Human Form, so it is OK for devoted satsangis to leave comments here about their Sant Mat faith, while it isn't OK for them to do this elsewhere?

Maybe you're right. I like to think that I'm the special favorite of God. My only problem is that I don't believe in God. But if She exists I agree: this blog must be a special favorite of God if I also am.

[Manny]

I reckon its meant for all blogs,Facebooks,Internet users! My interpretation! and as Brian states!~ Tom did you get this idea & information direct from Dera decision makers or GIHF, or were you in on the meeting when RSSB decided which blogs they were targeting to inform their followers stop visiting and reading but let Brian's website of the hook since hes a critical thinker & closer to God ( but doen't believe)so they made an exception.

[Boo]

The non-Asian RSSB Sangat (Europoean, Aussy, South African, white USA, African-American USA, etc.) is almost irrelevant these days, and we are getting OLD.

The RSSB guru is initiating India-Asians (and far-east peoples now in increasing numbers as well)at about 14,000 a pop in India. (Only a smattering of non-Asian's appear to be interested in getting initiated these days.) Of course as the Indian-Asian and far-east peoples are increasingly monied that means they have computers and are on line... Facebook, Twitter, personal blogs, etc.

So, yes, it is not so much that Brian is not included as his blog is increasingly obscured by the flood along the RSSB initiate's information highway, i.e., the Asian population being on-line and blogging and Facebookin' away. It is crowded.

[Brian Hines]

Boo, good points. That's my impression also -- that RSSB initiations are coming almost entirely from non-westerners.

[tucson]

Does anyone have a theory why initiations are dropping off in the west and increasing in the east? I thought business was good here in the USA where new centers and land are being built/purchased.

[Boo]

Tuscon, here are a few thoughts. I am sure you and others can add to this.

(1)Interest in Eastern religion, philosophy and meditation was nominal in the West until us Baby Boomer’s started dropping LSD, smoking pot, imbibing magic mushrooms, and following the Beatles to India, (Transcendental Meditation). Previously the West was rather embedded in the Abrahamic religions, football, and Western philosophical traditions. With the Baby Boomers interest spiked, and a large number of Western people were initiated by various gurus. (It would appear that son’s and daughters of the Boomer’s are not as inclined as their parents, perhaps because of the way they conducted themselves in their personal lives.) At any rate, gurus are out of fashion….with Western young more inclined to composr an interesting array of spiritual avenues plucked from various traditions and people (such as Eckhart Tolle).

(2) Indian culture surely continuously prepares more fertile ground for interest in gurus and meditation, and all the teachings that go with that. The whole subcontinent has been gripped with gurus and esoteric teachings for quite some time to say the least.

(3) India is immensely traditional, that is, family oriented. Although there is no policy for family to conscript relatives, I am sure the kind-hearted inspiration to talk about the Master (with many tales of wonder, no doubt) happens all the time. Nobody likes to be left behind and it is quite human to enjoy being in the fold of an ostensibly magic person.

But the West does not have any of those things. We are wise to the guru thing, its pitfalls and scandals....we are no longer the innocent flower children, and neither are our kids.

Western families are now fractured, so we rarely see our relatives, and our society/culture does not hugely support the vows, I am quite sure the *sex only after marriage* vow must seem laughably quaint to today's young Western "seekers", thus,
“The Path” must seems an uninviting climb to a questionable end.

Another bit of perspective: How many Hindus and Sikhs do we see at, say, a Baptist church in Atlanta? Why not? Obviously, because it so different from their indigenous culture, their way of life. The Beatle’s and LSD made a bridge, and that bridge is long gone. What is left but a lot of old people, and Indian faces, offering a difficult philosophy that has absolutely no cultural moorings, other than a few parents that may have succeeded in building enough inspiration in their kids for them to give it a try.

The increase in initiates in the USA and England, etc., is due to Asian immigration. It is hard (although not impossible) to find a white or African-American in Fayetteville under the age of 60. It is, indeed, an Asian-INDIAN religion with PROPERTY in America and England, Spain, etc.

[Brian Hines]

Boo, again... nicely said. Good analysis of the changes since the baby boomer years, of which I was a part. From LSD in 1967 and 1968 to gurus promising WOW! soul travel in 1969 and 1970 -- made sense to me, and many others. Another way to get high and experience alternative realities: meditation.

[tucson]

Yes, good analysis Boo, especially #1 which to me seems spot on. I have nothing to add except that continued facility expansion and purchases in the USA and elsewhere in the West may have to do more with investment than spirituality...the cynic in me speaking.

[NC]

Boo,
Thanks for the observation, I didn't realize it until you said it out loud. Seems so obvious that I can't believe I didn't see it before!

[Aha Maha]

Wrong

Jesus himself traveled to India more than 2000 years ago and imbibed the rich tapestry of Indian mystic culture and teachings and returned to impart same elevated teachings to his own personal disciples

Many such mystics have traversed a similar path and had similar guru / disciple relationships as is prevalent in current spiritual or mystic climes.

India, Tibet, Persia, China, Middle East, Russia, Egypt, Greece, Judea, Syria, and who knows the extent of unwritten teacher / disciple relationships across North and South and Central America throughout unwritten history, have all rich exposure to the mystic experience though relatively little is known from a scholastic western intellectual framework.

Baby boomers and their theories and extrapolations in respect to what is essentially a spiritual evolution of an individual soul, is just more of the western contained intellectually contaminated self deluding mind, which looks for theoretical premises of closed conditional thinking to verify and justify the individuals lack of personal experience and elevated consciousness.

No amount of self reasoning justification and intellectual analysis will work out why you are born in human form, why you get exposed to particular experiences or relationships or influences, whether they be LSD, Eastern Guru's, or any other such rationalized attempt to detract the mind from understanding the root of who the individual is, and for what purpose the individual participates in any fashion toward seeking or attempting to discover his or her essential identity or being.

[Aha Maha]

lets see you post the other one on the other thread.. lets see if you open and honest and unconditionally appreciative of the fact that free will and conditioned will are not something you can have all that much control over, even when you may think you do.

[Brian Hines]

Aha, so YOU know the truth. Congratulations. Of course, there's no evidence you know what you're talking about. But you've got a right to pretend, just like other would-be gurus, prophets, and enlightened beings do.

Thanks for sharing. Just don't expect me, or anyone else, to take you any more seriously than other religious pretenders.

[Aha Maha]

your limitations are your own Brian.. try not project them onto others..

its your right to test the waters of your own conditioned rationality, if your own inadequacy for sight aligns you with blindness then continue to believe in that which you are unwilling or unable to see.

after all some sage or other said some time ago.. the truth shall set you free... you didn't believe it then like you too conditionally afraid to believe it now. That ain't anyone else loss, only your own.

[Brian Hines]

Aha, still waiting for the evidence that YOU know the secrets of the cosmos that other sadly unenlightned beings don't know.

Still waiting...

Also, please keep your dogmatic B.S. confined to the topic of a blog post. Otherwise comments aren't published. Religious spam is just as offensive to me as selling-stuff spam.

[Roger]

"unwilling or unable to see"

--what would "it" be that is seen? Please, let the one that is willing and able, answer this question.

[Robert Searle]

Does anyone know anything more about this "group" started by Alexander Markus? Link to official site included here.

http://www.human-academy.com/english/5_initiation_alexander_markus.asp

[Someone]

Hi there,

This is to the author of this blog.

I came across your blog a couple weeks ago and since then spending some time occasionally here.

Even while moderation, if you'd delete this comment which I am writing right now, it's my humble request to you to still keep it at a place where you can read it or remember it that there was something of this sort.

Please don't mind this comment. I am sorry in advance, if it'd hurt you by any means.
I am no one to ask you to follow/unfollow this or that SantMat/Spiritual Practice.
I just want to give my little try to at least present The Truth.

Almost each and every post of this blog, which is against the RSSB, shows restlessness.

You've said many times in many posts that now after quitting the RSSB you are more open and have learned all new ways towards the understanding of Spirituality etc.

Please don't argue on this with anyone, not even yourself by teaching yourself that change is inevitable and counting on so many studies which proves you should get changed as well. Ask yourself honestly... what kind of change is inevitable and what kind of change should even be thought of ?
It's as simple as it looks:
"What changes is false. Truth never change."

Death never changes, why the change is not inevitable in consideration of Death? This is the fact that was, is and will be the truth of this false world(because the world changes, it's indeed false) i.e. The Death.
The Death, is the truth which has never changed since the inception of the world. And so the aftermaths of The Death has never changed since the inception of the world. The changes that you observe in the RSSB books, in the satsang, in the BJ's words are towards the fast changing world and the too curious thoughts of the new generations. But the meaning of the Satsang never changes and is The Truth and was the same years and years ago, is the same and will remain the same. i.e. Meditate and Meditate and Meditate and achieve The Truth.

The restlessness which appears from the blog posts, I'd even call it frustration and anger. Why these all are there ?

Instead of becoming a more spiritually knowledgeable person an activated Soul, you've more become a Critic. And most of your blog posts are doing nothing but merely criticizing the RSSB and other teachings.

Why it's all there ? Why it is the case ?

The reason I found is:
Have you ever experienced The Truth ? The Sound and The Light ? And I guess not. And The Truth of this blog is only this.

Do meditate and The Truth will appear right in front of you.

By the way, your year is 2017 and you'll indeed realize The Truth. A request again to you: Do meditation. The True meditation I mean, a singly focused one.

All my heartiest wishes to you and your experiences towards the life.

Again, I am really sorry if anything said above offended you by any means.

[Brian Hines]

Someone, I'm not frustrated or angry. I'm happy and contented with my life. It sounds, though, that this blog makes you frustrated (also, judgmental), or you wouldn't have spent so much time telling me how I should live my life

Are you serious? Do you know anything about Gurinder Singh's current teachings? Have you ever attended one of his talks? If so, have you really listened to them? There's little doubt that what Gurinder is saying is quite different from Sant Mat 1.0. It's at least Sant Mat 2.0. Maybe 3.0.

Also, have you read much of what is on this blog? Guess not. If you had, you'd realize that most of what I write about doesn't involve RSSB or Sant Mat. My current interest is neuroscience and how the mind really works, as opposed to outdated hypotheses about soul, mind, consciousness and all that.

Thanks for your advice to meditate. I've meditated every day since 1970. Still do. That's 42 years. Mostly of that time for several hours a day, in conformance with the RSSB meditation approach. So I don't need your advice. But thanks anyway. I realize you have a strong need to tell other people what to do, because you think you know the Truth, and others don't.

In a follow-up comment you should enlighten us deluded beings as to what the Truth is. Please be specific. Tell us all about your experiences of sound and light. Don't leave out any details. And be sure to give us some convincing evidence of things you know about the cosmos that no one else does.

Regarding your least statement, I'm not offended by your comment. I just had to point out where it wasn't truthful. Hope you aren't offended by being corrected.

See, you don't know the truth even about this world. What makes you think you know the truth about the next world?

[Roger]

"By the way, your year is 2017 and you'll indeed realize The Truth."

---why 2017?

[tucson]

Someone,

Blogger Brian is correct. What Gurinder Singh is teaching is quite different from traditional RS teachings. See the difference between Sant Mat 1.0 and 2.0 as presented by Osho Robbins:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+new+sant+mat+teachings&oq=the+new+sant+mat+teachings&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=12&gs_upl=201l11623l0l15417l26l25l0l0l0l0l182l2778l11.14l25l0