Sant Rajinder Singh: "godman" revealed as ordinary guy

Christians might be surprised to know that Jesus is alive and well, right here on Earth. Not the historical Jesus who died on the cross several thousand years ago, but other humans who share Jesus' divinity, his "son of God" status.

Such is the teaching of Sant Mat movements.

They're based in India and have an affinity with Hinduism and Sikhism. A central Sant Mat tenet is that God-realization requires initiation ("baptism") by a perfect living guru who is considered to be God in human form.

Just like Jesus!

Which makes these Sant Mat movements appealing to people who want a personal relationship with a Jesus figure, but prefer someone they can physically interact with, not a son of God who has departed heavenward.

Sant ("Saint") Rajinder Singh is the purported godman who heads up the Science of Spirituality (SOS) branch of Sant Mat.

He's billed as a spiritual master "dedicated to helping people realize themselves as soul" who "grants seekers a firsthand experience of their soul by putting them in direct contact with the Light and Sound of God."

Sounds like a highly elevated dude. If you were a disciple of this supposed modern-day Jesus, you'd expect that Rajinder Singh would demonstrate divine qualities -- such as exceptional love, compassion, wisdom, understanding.

Heck, probably even omniscience, since Rajinder Singh is a manifestation of God's creative power.

However, below is the story of someone who experienced a disappointingly ordinary Rajinder Singh. This person emailed me a few days ago, recommending some books I might like, and mentioning three and a half years of Rajinder Singh discipleship which ended after a shocking encounter with the guru.

Here's the tale:

Hello there Brian. About Sant Rajinder Singh Ji:

The feeling or belief that has been cultivated in these spiritual paths/organizations is probably familiar to you. That Indian guy is supposed to be a Perfect Master! A living Jesus Christ!  Am I right?

I don't want to speak at great length about how and for what reason I was initiated, it is not relevant. The NEGATIVE shock for me came 3 years ago. It was a incident that put Rajinder Singh's godman properties to the test and opened my mind for good. This guy is the clown of the town.

May 2009.  My late beloved father is sick. He has been diagnosed with lung cancer. I bought a ticket and visited the "living Christ" in Prague, Czech Republic, for some advice (chemo or alternative ways of healing, etc).

In the usual satsang setting Rajinder Singh meets with every one of the satsangis [disciples] at the end of the meeting. I was waiting for him to come in front of my seat. Beside me there was a young German couple with a bunch of photos of their new car. Right next to them I was holding a tiny photo of my dear father. My mind was in a storm.

Now watch this sequence in your mind:

-- The "master" came in front of the Germans.

-- They were flooding him with silly questions about the purchase of their new car and were asking him dozens of questions about their new house!!!  PATHETIC waste of about 7 minutes. Rajinder Singh, the Indian 'master', gave them some replies and dealt seriously with them. I was saying to myself: "What the hell am I doing here?"

-- Finally "He" finished with them, and greeted me as he was passing quickly to the satsangis next to me. I called out "Master, wait!"

-- I stood up. I passed him my father's picture, saying that my father was sick. I didn't have a chance to describe my father's medical situation.

-- As a supposed god-embodied and partially omnipotent guru he could have spent more than 20 seconds with me. He could have asked me more questions about my problem, if he had really understood my critical situation. From the pain in my eyes any good psychologist would be curious to ask me more questions!

My heart was aching like hell. As a living Christ he could have said something more divine or insightful or spiritual to someone who was intended to feel death in his family.

Do you know what he did say during the 10 seconds he stayed with me and looked at the picture? "HE WILL BE/FEEL BETTER!"  He said that my father would feel better or something like that. My personal Jesus devoted 10 minutes blessing the German car, and gave me a shitty FAST FOOD answer, full of generality and emptiness. 

Because my father was not in terminal stage at that time, he was driving, eating etc. He was feeling good.

December 2009.  My dear father died. As a family we gave death a great battle. I discovered that my father was a saint/martyr who endured pain and suffering. Probably I lost precious time with mind trap by believing in promiscuous miracle working. But now I feel more free and powerful than ever. 

It was nice to have a word with you, Brian.

Sententiously: In my darkest hours, Rajinder Singh, my personal godman, that well-fed jerk, uttered a sentence of four words and left. A three year long misconstruction had finally collapsed to pieces. 

"I think the world has had too many perfect masters, and popes, and mahatmas, and other such pretenders. Finding a perfect master is ideal only if your desire is to become a perfect slave."
      --Robert Anton Wilson

Now, I'm sure devout Sant Mat followers will excuse Rajinder Singh's behavior in various predictable ways. (For over thirty years I was a devoted member of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, another Sant Mat group, so I'm familiar with these rationalizations.) 

Which include...

No one can judge a guru's actions.
The guru was testing this person's faith.
Gurus act like ordinary human beings to mask their divinity. 
Expecting attention from the guru is an act of ego which won't be rewarded.
God, and gurus, behave in mysterious ways.
The father did "feel better." After he died. 

Here's the common denominator of these excuses for a guru acting like a jerk: there's no way to know whether a Sant Mat godman is a divine being from his outward behavior or statements. Well, this is the same as saying "the existence of God must be accepted on faith."

It turns out, then, that Sant Mat and Christianity indeed are much the same. But not in the way Sant Mat says -- that both religions are founded on teachings from a Son of God. 

Rather, the divinity of gurus like Rajinder Singh is supported by just as much evidence as exists for the divinity of Jesus: zero. These gurus are just ordinary guys who sometimes act like jerks.

Like the rest of us. 

Comments

[dman]

Hi Brian,
I think you left out one of the most commonly used rationalizations: You have to shed all 'Moh' or attachment.
I feel our attachment is to what people want us to be like, and what we feel should happen rather than what will happen.
I realized that a lot of our life's troubles arise because we expect someone else (the Guru) to solve our problems for us, we expect him to understand us better than we can.
I always remind myself of aloneness, uncertainty and connection, advice you gave me when I was confused. Its worked better than any Guru claptrap.
Understanding our own psychology, our own personality already means half the battle is won.
It is absurd how we seek peace and comfort in some third person, who does not even know, let alone understand, us.

[cc]

"...advice you gave me when I was confused. Its worked better than any Guru claptrap.
It is absurd how we seek peace and comfort in some third person..."

Yes, utterly absurd

[Pythagoras]

"Sententiously: In my darkest hours, Rajinder Singh, my personal godman, that well-fed jerk, uttered a sentence of four words and left. A three year long misconstruction had finally collapsed to pieces."

Wasn't it some saint who said:
"If you don't see, don't believe, even me"

- Arrivederci, Roma!
I didn't see, I don't believe, I leave.

We must find our true Self, our Holy Guardian Angel, our Higher Self etc and this process empirically demands the use of various masters or teachers or tutors or experienced guides.

They are the means, not the sole purpose.

"Rather, the divinity of gurus like Rajinder Singh is supported by just as much evidence as exists for the divinity of Jesus: zero. These gurus are just ordinary guys who sometimes act like jerks"

Agree 100%.
Maybe it is easier to empower a external projection of our divine nature. Empowering ourselves is tougher and that's why these sects, cults, organizations have been flourishing.
Some of us are weak or lazy or dumb or blind or heavily mind programmed or programmed in not recognizing our programming (!)

All the gurus and disciplines out there ought to be used as tools.

Why to be following only one path for a lifetime?
When I feel ready, I will not desire to walk anymore.
I would like to fly in infinite directions.

Pythagoras signing off.

[dman]

Nicely said cc!
But my "advice" was something to do with letting go of the dogma, (you can read the actual post), I didn't ask Brian to solve my troubles!

[Sam Wilson]

Hi Brian, get a life. Please...

[Brian Hines]

Sam, you'll be pleased to know that, after reading your suggestion, I've gotten a life. Fortunately, I have Amazon Prime, so it'll be arriving via free two-day shipping on Saturday.

(I was too cheap to spend the $3.99 to get the LIfe overnight.) I think I'll enjoy it, judging from Amazon reviews of Life. Thanks for putting this idea in my currently non-Life'd head.

[vejeestu]

Come on!! This is a story about the writer's naivety and childishness and not about Rajinder Singh at all. For all the money he spent to go Prague from ?, not for spirituality, but to ask a spiritual teacher about the best treatment for his father's cancer, he could have inquired in depth and detail from persons actually qualified on the subject. Rajinder ought to have given him a boot in the ass!

[Brian Hines]

vejeestu, if what you say is true, why does Rajinder Singh make himself available to answer questions on any subject, including talking with the German couple about their car and house for seven minutes?

Isn't this much more spiritually inappropriate than asking for some advice about the serious illness of a loved one? I don't get what you're saying here. Shouldn't a guru ignore all questions about worldly affairs, if these are manifestations of unspirituality?

[meatball]

vegeestu,
you been a stewin in those vegees for so long, that your brain has become like a vegetable. you'd best put some meat in your comment, because it doesn't have any. and btw, that clown rajinder singh is a friggin joke. and anyone who thinks not, is a lettuce head.

[Pythagoras]

@ vejeestu

The story was a XXL dildo in the ass of the ugly Rajinder. Proved!

If this "living christ" was 1% real, he ought to have the following Godman properties according to the "holy" texts/scriptures/books:

1) OMNISCIENCE (or even partial connectivity with the infinite information)

- So he would six-sense if a disciple was heading for serious trouble and would talk to him like Jesus or other saints would do. HE DIDN'T! FAIL!

- A godman would have known the outcome of that grave health condition. He could give an appropriate answer. HE DIDN'T! HE RUSHED AWAY! FAIL!

- A perfect master does not say and unsay. What he says is what he says.
He didn't say ANYTHING that WAS PROVED afterwards. As the guy says, the condition went worse and his brave father died. HE FAILED AGAIN!

2) LOVE & COMPASSION

- A living christ would give less time for the germans and spend more time with the guy with the serious family problems. HE DIDN'T KNOW A THING (see 1) and HE DIDN'T ASK MORE questions to LEARN from his disciple. FAIL!

- A living christ would give less attention for material things, and focus on more grave matters. I understand or visualize that he BEHAVED like the disciple's late father had a cold, hayfever or something. BLOODY FUNNY! FAIL AGAIN!

3) MIRACLE WORKING/GRACE/OVERRIDE OF NATURAL LAWS

- A godman could heal and prove something for the disciple and more.
HE DIDN'T. HE GAVE a pale false promise. THE FATHER DIED. FAIL! FAIL! FAIL!

CONCLUSION:

This raji-thing is not a Jesus Christ walking on earth, a real godman or a god incarnated. Nobody is better than you. This is slavery.

He is not even a enlightened being.

He is just a simple being like most of us.

Wait, wait a minute! Wrong!
Maybe he is WORSE than many of us. Why?

1) He pretends to be hollier than thou. Is he Sant (a saint)? Sant my ass.

2) He is attached to material things, luxury and plutocracy.
- luxury cars in ashrams in common view. Gewgaw!!!!
- golden watches etc. Gewgaw!!!!
- and of course the provocative ROYAL WEDDING of his ultra obese* ugly daughter that was held in India. Many Europeans were shocked by the luxury and the money spent for the multiple day celebration. Gewgaw!!!!

3) He looks and talks like Tex Avery's Droopy.

.
.
.
-------------------------------------------
* proof of the healthy benefits of vegeterianism :-(

[Emily]

I think that if you would look deeper into his teachings - you would realize that all of what he says and physically does stems from love. I challenge you to do this...listen to a video or talk online, go see him in person and tell him how you feel. See how he responds to you.

http://jyotimeditation.org/

I almost guarantee that if you were to write Rajinder a letter he would respond - take time out of his day to write back and give you the attention you desire.

Maybe he did not respond to this man because the man truly did not need him - or maybe it was a karmic load the man needed to burn off....these are all just explanations of what could have been the case.

In any case, Rajinder is a man, yes, but the energy behind him is something unexplainable - the love he gives to others, the dedication to his disciples is amazing (all talks and events are free, no charge, he does not make any profit what so ever!!). It is easy to cast judgment on others like you do. What does his daughter have to do with him, and her wedding? Did you know that she married a very wealthy man and that she herself is a doctor, and that her father makes a living not by his disciples. - Please do not get this confused. The fact that she is obese, the fact that she is as you say "ugly....?" You are casting your judgments on someone and something you know very little about. What he does with his family is very different from his spiritual life. What you say about him and his family is very unkind.

You and others that read this should experience the love he portrays and the kindness that he embodies in person or during meditation. All men have flaws, not one single person is perfect, not even mother Teresa or the Dalai Lama (which by the way The Dalai Lama has has spoke with Rajinder on many occasions at international conferences - and who has written many praises about Rajinders books and talks).

You have to realize that he is just a teacher, a vehicle that "god," or whomever you want to say works through. This "godman" as you say, does not make a living through his disciples nor does he flaunt his riches in front of everyone to make others feel less of a person - if anything he is very detached from money and riches. He also does not act holier than tho...and has never referred to himself as god or "godman."

I challenge you my friends! Write him a letter, view his videos or attend a talk of his - let me know how you feel afterwards.

I challenge the man who had this awful experience to write Rajinder a letter about it. He is always willing to hear you, even if you hate or despise him deep down inside.

_____________________________________________________

P.S. You miss the point on why some people become vegetarians...yes you can eat a lot of junk food and be vegetarian, yes you can be overweight and be vegetarian. Sant Mat followers are veggies because karmicly and ethically it is the right thing to do. Think of it like this...if you kill a chicken, you are eating the energy of that scared little chicken - the energy!! that's all we are right?...that's all this computer that I'm typing on is, right? Chemicals, compounds, energy...think about it.

[Don Pedro]

I went to hear and experience Rajinder Singh at a public satsang in Coronado near San Diego a few months ago. He was scheduled to begin the program at 2pm and my friend and I were there a little early in order to get good seats. By the time he finally arrived and took his seat on the dais, it was about 3:30pm. During the time everyone was waiting, a short video was shown about the so called sant and occasionally someone would say he should be arriving soon otherwise we were clueless about his whereabouts. To make matters worse, he offered no apology or explanation for his being so late and after all we went through to hear him speak, he spoke for about half an hour. Then he got up, pranamed the crowd and left. He seemed like a nice enough guy with a pleasant smile but all I can say is that I'm glad I didn't pay any money to be in his presence and will never go to see him again. To me it is disrespectful of other people's time when you are late and to be so cavalier about his tardiness tells me that he is not worthy of my respect. I am an initiate of Charan Singh who was famous for his punctuality both in the Dera and at satsnga abroad, and his successor, Gurinder Singh, is either right on time or a little early for satsang and other appointments. To me how you treat your fellow man says a lot about how evolved you are and time management is part of being a realized being. I went to see Kirpal Singh in 1973 in LA during his last world tour. He was very ill and it was hard to understand what he was saying. Frankly, I was not impressed by him and after he died in 1974 3 successors stepped forward and I eventually saw 2 of them in person. The first was Thakar Singh who died a few years ago and was succeeded by Baljit Singh, and the second was Kirpal's son, Darshan Singh, who died in the late 80's as I can best recall and was succeeded by his son, Rajinder.
Enough said about the Ruhani satsnag gurus.
Brian, how did you hear about the planned purchase of the building in the Irvine area? I just learned about it from my wife and she said that the representative , Vince Savarese, announced it somewhere recently so it must be true. It remains to be seen what the plans will be for its use in the future. Right now I could only speculate and won't go there.
Good night.

[Pythagoras]

@ Emily

Open your mind. You missed the whole point, your mind is obstructed by blind faith. Re-read the whole post or the whole blog if necessary.

The concept of the Perfect Master is THE corner stone in the Sant Mat doctrine. If the corner stone is destroyed then everything falls down. That indian guru is not a Saint or a Godman. He is not an exceptional being either. He is not the ONE who is gonna lead your soul back to such cunt. The whole fluid dogma of sant-mat is full of hypocricy. We are even witnessing the ever changing structure of the core teachings of it: Sant Mat v1.0, v2.0, v3.0. etc.
In this Sawan-Kirpal version, we have seen also intense nepotism. We have now an emerging new bloodline of godmen:

Grand-father (Kirpal) was (?) a perfect master.

Father (Dharshan) was (?) a perfect master.

Son (Rajinder) is(?) a perfect master.

- Guess who is gonna be the next perfect master?
- Someone from their rich family.

It is unheard. It is provocative and intimidating for our elementary IQ. The godman properties are inherited, the guruship quality is a hereditary trait. Disgusting. Even if the people were sheeps, they would laugh their asses with this DNA mockery of spirituality.

I understand how some people are seeking desperately comfort in various disciplines and relax in the company of teachers, but this silly game of deceipt must stop. It creates traps and weakens your true human potential. You can feel fine by yourself. It is a matter of practice and will power.

[Anand]

I am an initiate of Sant Rajinder Singh ji Maharaj since 1997 and after reading the post i felt really disheartened by the language and offensive tone of the replies commenting on his personal life and physique. Any ways what i would like to know this person is how much time he devoted daily to meditation and what level has he reached in it. Waite am not waiting for a reply cos answer to that is right out there.... People having absolutely ZERO experience of spirituality trying to judge someone who is sheer embodiment of Love, Compassion.
Sir i would like to tell u that during my bad phase of my life when i went through severe depression many times I questioned spirituality and teachings of it..... Not realizing when i suffered it was cause of my own Karma.... And instead of questioning your Master one should questione one's self..... At that point of my life I also wanted devine intervention to end my trouble just like that.... But after the entire incident was over I still feel blessed to be with the Greatest saint walking and talking on the face of Earth..... I feel strong and mature and have developed a different view to look at troubles. Only a doctor knows how to treat his patients.....

[Anand]

One more thing at his birthday event last year... People waited to see him from 11am to 1pm... I can tell you one thing for sure when we come to the feet of complete master looking for ultimate prize ie to realize self and ultimate God..... You got to prove your commitment and devotion and if after waiting for mere 1.30 hours , you are asking for explanation from Master, that only tells us a lot about your commitment and over and above all lack of deep longing for him and God. God is unbound by laws of this world and beyond and governed only by love and longing.... And you guys are trying to judge him by your own myopic view( physique, punctuality, work etc).... I sure would like to know credibility of people in terms of spiritual achievement .... Trying to spit on Sun.... Good news is that being all loving and compassionate no matter how much you guys try to look down on him, you all are always forgiven.
I want one genuine complaint A CLAIM THAT YOU GAVE YOUR 100 PERCENT IN MEDITATION AND RETURNED EMPTY HANDED.
Any takers.... Before raising stone to throw can you claim your worth....
And lastly am not waiting for replies from you INTELLECTUALS

[Anand]

If my comments don't get posted at least i will know who the real hypocrist..

[Pythagoras]

Αnand you fool.

Do us a favor and read ALL THE SHOCKING blogposts of the CHURCH OF THE CHURCHLESS.

And stop writing like a ten year old slave. You only delay your spiritual advancement. Lol

[Sandeepak]

After reading comments from all. I would only say please don't fight, just spread love, which I am sure no one can say wrong.

I don't want to comment on any of the above blog, but only would say that don't abuse anyone & also let's not comment on any one's & his family especially children's personal life. We all are having families & children and would not like anyone to comment on our family.

I don't want to write more, because I know whatever I will say, either in favor or against the same thing will be taken in negative way & I don't want to spread any negativity

Love to all & May God bless you all

[Kanchan G]

SO when jesus christ declared himself as the son of god and said I am the way ...it didn't go down too well with the jews and they kept telling him if your the son of god go save yourself ...they kept telling him to show something so they would believe...finally they humiliated and crucified him ...Seriously all those Jews who were challenging Jesus's claims were not interested in God and His words and Jesus who came to spread His fathers teachings...even if Jesus would do something to prove himself they were too blinded in their egos and their own intellect to understand the son of God...Similarly I feel from the article, the guy who went to seek relief for his fathers ailment is quite smart and was just trying to Catch up with Master Rajinder Singh for some Magic or Miracle ...I Suggest to this gentleman if the next time someone from his family or he fell sick he must take his family pictures to Some Woodoo specialist or probably Mr David Blaine....they will surely keep his sick family and him entertained and probably get his dead father alive from the grave..! Check out for David Blaine next time....for all your problems...Saints are mystics are beyond your Calibre !

[The9thGate]

That's the thing with Jesus isn't it...whether he existed or not is a different matter but most seekers of spirituality believe he did and the stories of his miracles have set the bar in some way haven't they. Any other saint claiming to be a God/Man has to be able to mirror the powers that Jesus supposedly possessed. From my limited understanding; the only difference is this....Jesus was broke ass poor and most Guru's these days have a lot wad to spend and they all have a thing for fast cars!
I guess the question is...is it wrong for seekers to expect so much from modern day God/Men? When did the protocol of not showing outward miracles commence and does it have any correlation to introduction of media technology. God-men don't like showing off on t.v....leave that to the Thespians I suppose.
Regarding Rajinder Singh's appearance....one could argue that it may not be the vessel God would choose to inhabit but then what body would God choose? Brad Pitt? Or is it just the plain fact that God likes Gee(clarified butter)and hence incarnates himself in a place where that need can be readily met?

[Kanchan G]

The little that I've heard, learnt or known in my life so far is that the Almighty, Allah , God etc or whatever names He is referred to, as the Creator of U and me,and every form of existence, the maker of the entire existence according to various scriptures He can incarnate Himself in any form....God could come in the form of a tree , Mother Theresa or Brad Pitt ...how does it matter...? He is the boss, the owner....

In any of the gatherings I've attended of Master Rajinder Singh..I've never heard him saying follow me or else you will go to hell....or Im the living Jesus..I've never heard him even saying I AM THE GURU..AND THERE'S NO ONE LIKE ME ....TALKING ABOUT MIRACLES.....i HAD A FRIEND WHO HAD ATTEMTED SUICIDE AND ALMOST WOULD HAVE DIED WHEN SOMEONE SUGGESTED SHE MET MASTER RAJINDER...HE DID MEET HER..SPEND A GOOD DEAL OF TIME LISTENING AND UNDERTSTANDING HER CRITICAL STATE ..HE DID NOT PROMISE HER AN OVERNIGHT EXIT FROM HER PROBLEMS BUT BLESSED HER AND SAID HE WILL PRAY FOR HER AND ADVISED HER A FEW THINGS...SHE DID FOLLOW HIS ADVISE AS A LAST RESORT OR HOPE TO COME OUT OF HER MISERABLE SITUATION...IT TOOK HER AROUNG 2 YEARS HOWEVER SHE NOW COUNSELS OTHERS AND WORKS FOR VARIOUS NGO'S IN INDIA HELPING PEOPLE IN DESPARATE SITUATIONS.....about fast cars my friend I believe the existing pope also lives in a very Kingsley environment...Does that make him a Bad individual ?

JESUS ALSO SAID " IF U HAVE FAITH AS LITTLE AS MUSTARD SEED , AND U SEE A MOUNTAIN AND SAID MOVE ...IT WILL MOVE "....TELL THE GUY WHO LOST HIS FATHER TO FOLLOW THAT AND GET HIS FATHER BACK FROM THE GRAVE...LET HIM SHOUT " DADDY COME BACK..what will he do if his father does not come back...Oh God..Jesus was a lair? is this what the guy will write......THESE THINGS REQUIRE AN INDEPT STUDY AND PASSION AND THEY HAVE TO BE DEVELOPED OVER A PERIOD IN ONE'S LIFETIME...!...

[The9thGate]

Kanchan G....I see what you are getting at...I'm curious...what made you a follower of Rajinder Singh and how did you come upon the path? I'm guessing you go to Chicago a lot?

[desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

You can only know Sant Rajinder Singh at a level that he chooses to reveal to you. Some desciples are blessed with the ability to experience his greatness within the inner regions through meditation. Some desciples have little to no inner vision in their current state, but still have the ability to recognize his greatness on the outside. There are some desciples that are still not sure who he is. There are different reasons for this, but if one follows his teachings, in due course of time it becomes very clear that he is of a consciousness beyond our comprehension. Sant Rajinder Singh is a lot like the character "Yoda" in the movie Star Wars. By appearence, he looks like an ordinary individual, and one that has never seen him would not look at his physical appearence and think he's all knowing. Saints blend in, and walk the earth in disguise. Like "Yoda" in Star Wars, Sant Rajinder Singh may even pretend to be un-educated, or confused. Expect the unexpected when in the company of a living saint!

[Roger]

desciple,

In your opinion, is Gurinder a GIHF? Please be honest.

[desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

Yes, in my opinion Sant Rajinder Singh is the Christ power so many people speak of in our day and age. He is the current GIHF. My inner eye is not very developed spiritually, but I have had many examples that have happened to me outwardly which have confirmed his greatness for my own mind. I have talked to many advanced desciples of Sant Rajinder Singh, who under his guidance have developed their inner vision. I have spoken to desciples that have the ability to enter the astal, causal, and regions beyond who have confirmed that Sant Rajinder Singh guides them within, and that he is the gatekeeper of these regions also.

Sant Rajinder Singh can give initiates a firsthand experience of inner light and sound through meditation. I never saw any light. or heard any inner sound until I met Sant Rajinder Singh about 15 years ago. Once he gives you something to start with, it is up to the desciple to develop it further.

[Furious Sam]

desciple of Sant Sant any.

YOU CAN PROVE ANYTHING.

EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG

PERIOD.

[Roger]

Thanks desciple,

In your 15 years, where did you hear or read of the Master being a GIHF? From a fellow devotee or group leader type person?
This GIHF topic isn't a big deal, just an interesting topic. Oh, and is the guidance through the various spiritual regions a supernatural power of the master?

Thanks again for your continued responses.

[desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

I heard about Sant Rajinder Singh from a close friend of mine. I was about 25 years old, and had developed an interest in spirituality. My friend explained to me that there is always a living saint present on the earth. I saw videos and listened to tapes of Sant Kirpal Singh, Sant Darshan Singh, and the current living saint Sant Rajinder Singh. This peaked my interest further, and I visited Sant Rajinder Singh for my first time in Chicago. Soon after meeting him physically, I got initiated into the inner light and sound from Sant Rajinder Singh...The various spiritual regions can be accessed through our single or third eye through meditation. These regions exist at a different frequency from the region we currently experience with our physical eyes and ears, the physical plane. If we had been taught at birth to spend time through meditation accessing our single or third eye,it would be easy for all of us to rise above body consciousness and experience the astral, causal, and regions beyond. However, most of us are unaware that we even have a single or third eye. For those of us that are aware, we have spent little to no time gazing into it.Therefore, we experience mostly darkness in the initial stages.....it's necessary to have an inner guide if you advance far enough through meditation and reach the astral plane and beyond....The physical plane we currently live in is but a speck(in size) of the astral plane. Without a living saint guiding you within and providing protection, a soul would have no chance at making it through the astral region. We have all been to the astral plane many times before in previous incarnations. When you see it once again, you will have many recollections of it in your being.

[Furious Sam]

desciple(sic) of singh.

Stop believing in fairy tales..
You CANNOT PROVE a THING!

If you had experienced something in the likes of the story described in this post, you wouldn't have said all these "stories" and "theories"

Practical experience and Proof BEATS theories and misleading childish philosophies ANYTIME.

This guy who pretends to be a saint, does not have any clue of what enlightment is. He doesn't have a grip of light in any plane. Material plane, astral, subterranean, suburban or turban or exogalactic plane.

Bring real evidence (video, audio, mathenatical or any scientific evidence) or shut your mouth.

And something more. To call arbitrarily yourself "Science" in the case of science of spirituality, is blasphemy to SCIENCE.

[paul]

mac duggal + scandal? do tell....

oh, and by the way, when are the stephens/duggal's gonna produce the next perfect master baby....

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Furious Sam

I've had my own experiences within through meditation and on the outside visiting Sant Rajinder Singh physically on many occassions over many many years.

As far as proof, I'm not out to prove anything to you personally. In fact it's up to you to discover the spiritual riches within yourself. If I tell you im tuning into a radio station at a certain frequency, and experiencing light and sound at that frequency, its up to you whether you want to use your human body to tune into that frequency also or not.

Nobody can force others to tune their radio frequency to regions of the Astral, Causal, Supra Causal, and Sach Khand. I dont have access to your dial. I only have access to my own. However, there are other readers that may have an interest in discovering it for themselves, so I am sharing what I see and what I experience.

I don't call anything Science. The Science of Spirituality is the name Sant Rajinder Singh has used for the spiritual movement he is in charge of. I'm simply a person that heard about it, tested his theory, and experienced the results within myself.

I enjoy your posts. You are rather entertaining. Feel free to fire away. :)

[Juan]

Im tuning into a radio station at a certain frequency, and experiencing light and sound at that frequency, its up to you whether you want to use your human body to tune into that frequency also or not.
Nobody can force others to tune their radio frequency to regions of the Astral, Causal, Supra Causal, and Sach Khand. I dont have access to your dial. I only have access to my own. However, there are other readers that may have an interest in discovering it for themselves
...AND to listen the sound and see the light ONE NEEDS A PASSWORD (INITIATION) AND GRACE FROM SANT RAJINDER SINGH OR FROM BABAJI DON GURINDER SINGH DHILLON.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Juan

I looked up Gurinder Singh Dhillon after reading your post, as I had never heard of him before. Is this post below accurate about Gurinder Singh Dhillkon?...........

Because the current guru, Gurinder Singh, now is saying that God, heaven, and the savior (using Christian terms) are fictions.......This is Big News in the Radha Soami Satsang Beas world. Except the guru doesn't allow his talks to be recorded, and he never writes anything, so the news is only slowly trickling out to RSSB disciples.......Well, change happens. Join the real world. The only certainty when it comes to God and all things religious is that there's nothing to be certain about

[Roger]

Desciple,

Thanks for your messages. Is there a possibility that only one living Master(guru) can be a GIHF at a time? Would Rajinder be the current GIHF and Gurinder not so much a GIHF? This topic, I find rather interesting. Thanks for your reply.

[Furious Sam]

If you read all the posts Brian has posted all these years, you could re-program your mind to think more clearly.

What you experience with Rajinder in meditation, could be experienced with any other guy that you could accept/ project as a "godman". Maybe this can be true and without godman.

This "Church of the Churchless" very post is a PROOF against your claims.

The story of that guy is a MASSIVE Proof that rajinder is not a godman. He is a jerk.

Why to believe you and not believe that orprhan guy above?

In order to finish this self-illusion of yours. I would like to help you and tell you that:

"The map is not the territory"

"The search for truth never ends"

" When you define God.
You confine God. "

MAKE an EXPERIMENT:

Do your meditation wih faith but without rajinder, or any other silly mantra. Just you and the darkness. Or choose another high idealistic mantra that suits you.. Repeat for a couple of weeks..
Come back and report your results.

You would be astonished. The same peace and love will be present again in your life. Just get rid of the religion, old school spiritual junk. Evolve!

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To Furious Sam:

Sant Rajinder Singh remains with all his desciples regardless of whether they follow his teachings or not. I would be unable to do your experiment without his presence.

Im afraid following your advice would cause me to reincarnate atleat one more time. I'm growing weary of this physical plane. I'd just assume get out of here for good after this incarnation is complete.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To Roger:

There is always one present on earth at a time. Each time a current living master passes away, there is a real successor that takes on the mission. At that time, there are always many others who claim to be the real successor also.

For those that have developed their inner vision, it is easy to verify the real one from the fakes. For most who do not have the ability to see the radiant form of the GIHF within, there are different tests outwardly that can be done to help verify who the real one is.

Ultimately it takes some grace from the living GIHF to see anything correctly though. If it takes us many incarnations to finially discover a GIHF, then grace is a factor to ever discover one at all.

[Need Some]

Nice posts from all of you ! Can anyone tell me why are girls and women called to his delhi ashram in night and what happenes in personal aashirwad ?? (Near nanak pyau) :P

I know late nights visits from Nice and hot girls are common thing for whole 3 months when he is in india.
What does a saint has to offer in midnight which he cant offer during the day ??

Need proof,?? go and visit and see yourself.

LOVE ALL HAPPENS THERE :P

[Juan]

Need some, you asked,
Can anyone tell me why are girls and women called to his delhi ashram in night and what happenes in personal aashirwad ??
...One should follow the teachings of these masters and not indulge in what they are doing and why.
I know late nights visits from Nice and hot girls are common thing for whole 3 months when he is in india.What does a saint has to offer in midnight which he cant offer during the day ?
...It is the biggest sin on earth to doubt these masters, maybe these are their mysterious ways, they are kindhearted and are so much in love with humanity that they never care whether it is day or night. The mystery of these masters is beyond the comprehension of the mind. We have to rise above the mind and intelligence to understand them.

[Roger]

Not sure I understand the hot girls going to the guru's ashram late at night. This on the surface sounds rather weird.

and,

"It is the biggest sin on earth to doubt these masters, maybe these are their mysterious ways,......."

---Related to this specific topic, this statement is really nutty and weird. The biggest sin? What bull sh---t.

"The mystery of these masters is beyond the comprehension of the mind."

---Mystery, the absolute kind, is beyond the comprehension of the mind, is true. However, truth about a horny guru can be comprehended.

"We have to rise above the mind and intelligence to understand them."

----I think we can get some good info on a Master, using our mind(brain) and intelligence. Information is relative.

[Roger]

Thanks desciple,

I think your comments on what a GIHF are correct, with the traditions of RSSB. I have read that information before. You have your opinion, based on teachings, experiences and your meditations. Nothing wrong with such. Main thing, you seem very honest and sincere.

Others can have a different opinion on the GIHF. For myself, I don't have a belief or non-belief in such persons. I find the topic very interesting, with other RSSB topics, and nothing more. I like discussing such issues through blogging. None of this is a big deal.

[nietzsche]

Desciple of SRS wrote:
For most who do not have the ability to see the radiant form of the GIHF within, there are different tests outwardly that can be done to help verify who the real one is.

I don't know of any such outward test. Should we look at the way the guru reacts on confrontation with factional investigations into his private life? Should we try to see how he lives when he thinks no one is looking? What are these tests?

btw Hitler was a guru. He promised a new world order and said he was the God of the new world. Most Indian guru's do the same but they talk about conquering the inner world where they are the God. The difference seems to me the worldly power but both have the same need to be a guru. Both call themselves ubermensch or godman. Fact is both are sociopaths without a normal developed conscience.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: nistzsche

......I don't know of any such outward test. Should we look at the way the guru reacts on confrontation with factional investigations into his private life? Should we try to see how he lives when he thinks no one is looking? What are these tests?....

I'd suggest reading "Spiritual Awakening" by Darshan Singh. In that book it lists many different ways a desciple or seeker can test the legitimacy of a perfect master.

A great book I recommed is called "journey to the Luminous" by Arron Stephens. This author is a desciple of the last three living masters, and he had his own occurrence of experiencing a fake master for several years. He ultimately discovered the real one, and he tells his story in the book and tells of his experiences with the current GIHF. He's a successful business owner in Canada, and you can read about his food company online called "Natures Path"

For those sincerely seeking out a GIHF, it is good to read the experiences of their desciples as well as reading the teachings of the masters themselves.

-Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

.....Can anyone tell me why are girls and women called to his delhi ashram in night and what happenes in personal aashirwad ??
...One should follow the teachings of these masters and not indulge in what they are doing and why.
I know late nights visits from Nice and hot girls are common thing for whole 3 months when he is in india.What does a saint has to offer in midnight which he cant offer during the day ?.....

The Satguru sees all comers at all hours of the day and night. Bbeauty is in the eye of the beholder. Your inference that attractive females would have any kind of pull on Sant Rajinder Singh is silly and innaccurate. Furthermore, it's simply not true that this happens. Sounds like you are spreading disinformation to me. Fire away, the world is full of disinformation.

-Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh

[Dave]

Left this sect (S.O.S. Rajinder Singh) some years ago and very happy about it. It totally undermines your selfrespect. It shows many faces to the outside world, is very well organized and knows exactly what words to use to hide the truth. Truth is that on a deep level this is a very dangerous destructive sect. A sect that is not even on most of the usual lists of sects too. So clever. You may go insane, lose your health etc. They do not do any research at all about the condition of people who join and order all to sit 2,5 hours a day. Very dangerous and indeed i saw one go insane. Long meditation when you have some illness in the brain or trauma's in the past can be very dangerous. When you drop out forget it , nobody will come to help you. You did not meet up to the abnormal demands so... And of course the demands are abnormal because people are not meant to live up to them. Otherwise they see through the lies too quickly.

All the socalled progress you make is fake, from dubious sources and has nothing to do with real spiriuality or God.
It has literally all the characateristics of sects, you can read those on other pages. The history of s.o.s. is one dirty lie as too you can read online, but is all hushed up. I saw the people who had joined long ago become more and more strange. Almost all meditators i met had severe problems before they joined, be it poverty, abuse, loneliness, loss of kins, disease etc. etc. and in fact seek healing from that. This is cleverly exploited by sects.

The treatment of sex in S.O.S is very insane, in fact sex is not allowed. TOtally insane.Ah but Rajinder owns that Duggal business together with his brother, and the advertisements sure show women in eh pretty poses, and the dresses are provocative too... telling the meditators to be chaste but ah when cash comes in...

Hee do they still use that imbecile spiritual diary? On which you can note your schizophrenic fantasies on one side and on the other you have also to note if you had sex that day... and forget privacy in that ashram, many can read your letter. They ask meditators there to read the letters of others when these are in an unknown language.. forget privacy.

I am ashamed that i ever joined, but well i only came in contact with locals who were pleasant people. It took me long time and much research to find out the truth and well i must say, it cured me fully of all proudness and i lost all attraction for the new age blabla gurus etc. etc.

Some meditators became ill due to the wrong diet, many folks can not digest lactose, use it though as it is recommended and well what else to eat.. but this may lead to severe diseases. Most people in world can not really digest lactose.

In Islam they know the subject of djinns and people who work with them, are subjected to them. Islam warns strongly against all this. Islam sais djinns have other powers than humans and when they get power over a human it looks like this human has extraordinary powers but it is all fake and very dangerous, origin is the djinns and certainly not God. It is a road to insanity. I know not enough about it to explain it here, but the characteristics of strange feelings and events etc during meetings were 100 procent that of possessed people. But as here in the West i was ignorant of all this i took it for signs of spirituality.

They are very good in using the words, make you believe that really the teacher is just a human being and we all meditate and are peaceful to grow in religion etc. Ah but the truth is very different. It is evil in the long run. In the beginning you may feel fine as you meet many goodwilling but also deceived people, are taken up easily in the groups... and after some time your health goes worse, your mind too a bit, you lose all self respect as you can not do the chores of f.e. 2,5 sleepy- oh sorry meditation a day or abstaining from doing 'it'with the one you love. They slowly undermine your selfconfidence which probably was not too strong to begin with.
I am happy i left, and consider this sect to be evil, treacherous, a bunch of liars who somehow make lots lots lots of money out of it not by asking money but by stimulating people to do unpaid work for them. Ah enough for now maybe more later, Dave

[Dave]

Dave once again.
Yes the ultimate argument that can never be discussed or denied is that to understand the socalled master you have to go inside, it can not be understood by the mind etc. etc. You can never refute this argument, they always have an answer, either you are not developed enough to see the truth, your karma was sooo bad that the master does not reveal things to you, and of course you did not meditate enough or not well enough (most sleep anyway) etc etc. And that calls itself science of spirituality. Science wants to be discussed and maybe proven wrong. All this is impossible here.
By the way, schizophrenics too see inner lights etc and they are same as those of the meditators.

Seeing inner colours etc etc and hearing sounds is nothing special. I had that long before i meditated, it happens worldwide and also in insane people. DOes it make me more social towards others? More sincere in praying? Or whatever? No. It only makes me mentally unstable and proud for having these experiences oh special me i am making progress.... Like children in a class the meditators compare their socalled inner experiences, though officially you should not talk about it. (again, of course you should not otherwise you find out too quickly)But you sure have to note it on the silly diarypaper and send it to India.

It is very deceiving, i was in it for years and was also deceived. And again, some members are fine people. But, watch them carefully. When like me you are with them for years slowly you will see a change. Creepy. The very least that will happen is that you feel yourself special, oh a satsangi, what a grace to be chosen etc. blablabla. A very subtle but very devastating destructive mental development. So subtle that at first i did not notice it in myself. Now i see that me too i had the holier than thou mentality. Brr i am happy that that has been cured.

They warn oh do not judge the meditation by looking at the results in the other meditators... haa but then how to see if the meditation is good? again deceiving. They warn go inside and see for yourself.. but what you see is fabrications of the mind. When you would meditate on a tree you would see t he tree inside and hear him talk.
Like in all sects they got you coming and going, a normal discussion is impossible.

Follow the dole. Yes the national department showed the finances OK but no way you will get insight in the worldwide organization, its finances and maybe political interests too? No way you can find out. Where does the income of the Singh family come from? Is the buildup of the huge richness connected with the meditation, not only now but also in the times of Kirpal and Darshan? Does the whole business bring them great profit f.e. by meeting the important people, which is most convenient when you run a business?
Also people are stimulated very much to pay by having meetings in their houses or rented place, free donations, buying books,buying gadgets with photos of the oh so humble masters ... etc., renting places for speeches etc etc etc. Buying photos of the masters (yes me i did that too...) You sure pay but indirectly.

The meditation is free they say. but this is not true. I now see that my physical energy from a basic physical level was literally drained. I know nothing about magic otherwise i would talk about that. It damaged my health and i stopped just in time for recovery.
During the first few meditations i had strong strange feelings that silly me i took to be spiritual oh this meditation is good at least now something happens. Now afterwards i can only subscribe it to mental unstability, or some kind of magic, or persuasion, group influence being used. It was not positive at all but how was i to know.

Well happy to be out of it and feeling myself just one of the many people that live on this world. I wrote a goodbye letter and asked them to remove my adress etc and the letter that came in return returned confirmed all i thought, it was filth. I should just listen to the maaaaaster, keep mouth shut and by the way i had this and that characteristic that was the problem, not all i said. they did not answer any of my questions i had put in the letter.
and this characteristic (that i keep private) well they have my birth date and oh coincidence an astrologer (i stopped all that too do not worry) indeed told me that this characteristic was very strong in my whatsthename, the stars.so anybody could predict that and by the way, now afterwards i see that at least now that characteristic has lessened considerably in the course of years - after i got out of the sect.

And about the allknowing master, well the letters of the centre in India to individual meditators are full of huge mistakes i assure you. THe masters do not exist at all, only psychopaths. But very clever psychopaths, victim to their own mind abnormalities and making others victim too. I hope everybody will leave this and other sects for good. Do not think low or yourself (yes being sect member kills your selfesteem) please and do not think low of others.
You can pray to God, try to find inner peace and connection with likeminded people, in your own human and therefore imperfect way, but NOT by joining a sect.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Dave

Are you a CIA dis information bot? Your writing doesn't make a lot of sense. Try again, but perhaps you could make it sound more human.

There are clearly people on this site posing as real people spreading dis information. Welcome to the age of the New World Order.

[Gaz]

''You may go insane, lose your health etc. They do not do any research at all about the condition of people who join and order all to sit 2,5 hours a day. Very dangerous and indeed i saw one go insane. Long meditation when you have some illness in the brain or trauma's in the past can be very dangerous. When you drop out forget it , nobody will come to help you. You did not meet up to the abnormal demands so... And of course the demands are abnormal because people are not meant to live up to them. Otherwise they see through the lies too quickly.''

Very,very true, meditation if not done correctly is deleterious. You have to have certain ethics, such as honesty, being decent to one another etc. Chand stated this in his autobiography.
If one doesn't have the above qualities, your mind can lead you astray in meditation.
There are some satsangis that don't have the above qualities and they really are doing more harm than good.
Meditation should only be done for a certain amount of time in the day, a few hours, not all day long. Our minds cannot handle that, IMO, sitting in meditation for that long is like depriving your mind, what happens when you deprive your mind to a great extent? It leads you astray.

Some meditators became ill due to the wrong diet, many folks can not digest lactose, use it though as it is recommended and well what else to eat.. but this may lead to severe diseases. Most people in world can not really digest lactose.

I'm one of those people that can't digest lactose, its recommended by Sant Mat to consume milk,chapati etc.
You may have seen in the other posts that RS diet is unhealthy.

[Gaz]

Hey Tara,

Did you know that Rajinder doesn't stay in India for too long, his main territory is the US. This guys target market is white people, IMO, I think he is scared of Singhs, i think back in 1989 his father was gunned down by a few Singhs, please correct me if i'm wrong.

Check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVEdFLKz27E

So funny

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Gaz and Tara

BRAVO! I had a few good laughs from your postings. Not the most believable propaganda I've ever read, but entertaining never-the-less.

Watch that Lactose. It can get ya!

Stilling the mind through meditation for long periods of time is scary stuff. lol ;)

Thank you Gaz for the utube link to a Sant Rajinder Singh video. I found that inspiring. I didn't see what was funny about it. Sant Rajinder Singh looked great in the video.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Tara

As i read your message, I was eating crackers with Goat cheeze. I love goat cheeze. I got use to eating it while living in Europe for about 6 years, and I have continued ever since.

The CIA has countless dis information agents swarming the media and web. You sound like one because of the dis information you say about Sant Rajinder Singh.

The way you attack in your writing sounds choreographed. I'm giving you some positive feedback, so you can imporove your approach. I respect that you have your job to do.

[Brian Hines]

Desciple, I hope you're kidding about the CIA/Tara. If not, you really should get more in touch with reality.

Just giving you some positive feedback, so you can improve your approach.

(Now, where did I hear someone say something like that?)

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Blogger Brian

Tara knowningly spreads dis information. Is that not a fair question to ask someone?

Since its known that the Government and CIA have employed thousands upon thousands of dis information agents to post and blog throughout the web, is it not a question that can be asked to someone in this day and age?

Is that question any more silly than the dis information I've read on this thread about Sant Rajinder Singh?

Thanks for the positive feedback. I like your spirit of positivity. ;)

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Tara

I'm currently eating White Corn Tortilla chips with cream cheeze. I ran out of goat cheeze, so when that happens I like to go to the back up cream cheeze.

Feel free to call me what you like. If the word Troll excites your mind, fire away.

If you feel the Science of Spirituality and Sant Rajinder Singh is a cult, call it what you wish.

When you spread dis information on here, don't be so suprised when someone calls you out on it.

[Mike Williams]

Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh,

Prove you are a true disciple of Rajinder.

Say Matzah Ball Soup in Yiddish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX0PHt1HDQI

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Mike Williams

I'm initiated by Sant Rajinder Singh. I'm not a "true" desciple. Controlling the mind is no easy task. I'm far from being a good desciple.

I need practice in yiddish. I've never heard of it.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: tara

I just finished eating at Chipoltes. I hope the corn flour tortillas I ate there meet your health standards.

Calling you out is definately not in my imagination. If you read the posts I made, I do just that.

Your post you made on March 29th was pure dis information....a bunch of garbage.

[Mike Williams]

Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh,
Tara is capable of drop kicking
you on the moon, she is so smart.

What you don't understand is we are
here to help people like you.

We are here to help crazy mixed up
people. We are concerned for the terrible
nightmare you suffer under Rajinder.

This site also provides free exorcism
for Rajinder initiates.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Tara

I'm thrilled you are a freedom fighter. Unfortunately, nothing you do can "save" me. Once initiated from Sant Rajinder Singh, you cannot leave. He stays with a desciple until that soul merges back in God, whether the desciple leaves the path or not this incarnation.

I am not well versed on your beas belief. I have no doubt you are exactly where you are suppose to be at this time. That was not the garbage I referred to. It was the other garbage you posted about Rajinder Singh.

Perhaps you should spend your energies saving someone else. My destiny is beyond your reach.

I appreciate your concern.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Mike Williams

Tara is very intelligent. I have no doubt she knows exactly what she is saying and doing.

You both are a nice tag team. I'm enjoying the show you are providing.

I look forward to reading more info on the free exorcism that can be provided. Could you expand on that some more please?

[the9thGate]

Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh :- The notions and "esoteric" belief's conveyed by the Beas group and Science of Spirituality are practically the same; although there seems to be a shift in Beas regarding inner spiritual regions....nonetheless....the idea that the Master will never leave your side once initiation has taken place is paramount and still prevalent. I am guessing you are an initiate. I am assuming you denigrating yourself as a "bad" disciple is a display of humility or guilt about a past only you truly know about.
In my opinion (and it is only an opinion and bears no importance in the grand scheme of things)...your intentions to serve your Guru are noble and sincere. You clearly want to a be good Gurmukh.
Please consider for a moment the idea that your Guru is constantly attached to your psyche. So much so that even if you want Him to leave...He will not. Furthermore; he will find a way to drag you back on the path should you falter. I can see the appeal....it's not Fifty Shades of Grey but there is something about submission that caters to the satsangi in general. Reality can be so harsh and painful and letting someone else take the reigns....someone who is offering bliss is naturally very alluring.
I am sure at some point in your life you have loved a woman in such a manner also (depending on your sexual preference). You may have loved a woman so much that you have wanted her by your side eternally and romanticised of how having her in your life would make you feel like you could do anything, have anything and be anything you desire! That million dollar feeling!
The thing is...once you get the girl....and I mean truly get the girl in EVERY way possible....you realise there is always a price to pay and over the years you learn to appreciate that humans need closeness but also need personal space to breathe. Freedom is refreshing...the drug that very few have a dealer for.
My point being (and I suck at getting to the point...just ask Tara)....Rajinder Singh is "the girl" you are pursuing right now...you want "the girl" with all your heart and mind. Have you truly got "her"? Not yet.....had you got "her" you would not even have the time for the this blog. You'd be too busy having spiritual seduction sessions with your beloved. You'd be loving it up!
I hope Rajinder does offer you that union; That you merge with your Master as you say. I hope Rajinder gives you the Darshan you crave both physically and mentally. Once that happens....will the union be enough to satisfy your needs?...will you feel suffocated by the constant eye of your Master or do you like being choked, gagged and bound? Realistically, is it possible for you to have such an intimate relationship with your Guru and is this truly what you want? We all have a choice....your fate is in your hands...how much of your hand are you willing to give to Rajinder Singh? A few fingers...the whole hand perhaps? Does Ranjinder represent freedom to you or do you want to be in a constant state of surrender to him?

[Roger]

Tara,

"IMO, true seekers will always question."

---A true seeker, seeks only the relative, for relative truth. This type of seeker doesn't bother seeking the non-relative. The non-relative could be something else.

Ohhhh....that damn something else pointer.

[Mike Williams]

Actually Tara, I wish you were a CIA
agent.

I don't think this person is a Rajinder mole.

He doesn't possess enough flair,
or cunning deceit.

My bet is he is a Beas initiate, trying
to get us to critisize Rajinder.

The fact he can't speak Yiddish is a big tell.

[nietzsche]

He I missed this thread. Do we have a way to test a guru yet? All I've read was books that where supposed to have these tests. I want to know the test so I can test Gurinder!

Just ate my delicious chicken rice meal today. Mjam mjam better than cheese.

By the way we are not allowed to read this blog anymore. It distracts from meditation and our inner peace will get disturbed. Just met a Santsangi the other day. Both eyes wide closed. Such a shame she used to be intelligent now she is retarded. Also trying not to notice things like new well looking glases! So I started the conversation mentioning how well I must be looking :) LOL We almost got into a fight about my misplaced pride.... Sad story what Gurinder is doing to these people. A whole new kind of demon leading on no road to anywhere. Keeping people from making some progress from learning something from doing something good.
I don't argue with them anymore because I don't know and I can't see beyond my present vision but I'm waiting for the proof or the test I can do. The intellect is the biggest trap these cults use. No proof, no miracles, no love, no progression. Just the intellect is fed a nice story that somehow originated from some true stories and was twisted by imagination. Than started to live a life of its own like a meme. And now it is ruling Satsangi's and their master. Slave to the meme. Slave to the intellect.
Just open your eyes. What you see is what you are.
Nice talking. Bye!

[nietzsche]

Espescially intellectual people like most here are very susceptible to a story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3TVgEpMyhI

[Mike Williams]

Jiddu Krishnamuti and Adolph Hitler

Could WW II have been prevented ?

It is well known Adolph Hitler kept one book
on his nightstand every night.

The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky, founder
of the Lucifer Trust, later to become Lucis Publishing.

Alice Bailey, her disciple followed and the Theosophical
Society was born.

Leadbeater and Annie Besant adopted Jiddu Krishnamurti
and brought him up to be the vehicle for the Lord Maitreya.

The World Christ. Most occultists awaited Jiddu Krishnamuti's
appearance as the world saviour, including Adolph Hitler,
an Aleister Crowley initiate.

During the years I knew Jiddu Krishnamuti, many questions
were asked to him why Adolph Hitler did
not follow him. Jiddo never published these questions
and answers.

Many Gurus endorsed Adolph Hitler, including Yogananda,
as referenced in my website.

Jiddo was attracting vast crowds, such as the 16,000 overflow crowd
at the Hollywood Bowl. Many Hollywood occultists were there
including Rudolph Valentino, Greta Garbo and Charlie Chaplin.

It is true Adolph Hitler awaited Jiddo's incarnation of Lord Maitreya
in human form. But, when Jiddo disbanded the Order of the Star, Hitler
turned away.

[just me]

Just read nietzsche's comment... "By the way we are not allowed to read this blog anymore."

I can understand why.

I do like Brian's more philosophical musings but really the negativity in some of the comments does trigger my own in wanting to respond, somehow trying to put things right.

"It distracts from meditation and our inner peace will get disturbed."

This is true.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To Tara{

... there is a good chance that a few months or years from now, Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh will be free of his belief system....

Your prediciton is not looking good. I've been am initiate for over 15 years.

My destiny is beyond your reach because I doubt you have gained access to the Astral, Causal, Supra Causal, and Sach Khand regions.

Interesting that you trash spiritual leaders on this site. I cant imagine your Beas group teaches people to slander spiritual heads of other groups.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Nietzsche

.....Just ate my delicious chicken rice meal today. Mjam mjam better than cheese...

The chicken didn't think so! ;)

Great song you posted. I have never seen that video or heard that song before.

[nietzsche]

@just me
[quote]
"It distracts from meditation and our inner peace will get disturbed."

This is true.
[/quote]
I am sorry but I made that up. I found it ironical because I see so little inner peace with Satsangi's and even less meditation :)

But don't let the truth make you depressed. I myself am so sad to see that the whole Santmat thing is just a story. By the way do you see this one? Every story that can be told can not be the true story. So is it possible to stop growing, to stop thinking?

Meditate on it. What stories have been told to you. Are they the endpoint of the mind, do you live with a lie? Questions, not answers here. Sorry to disturb your beauty afternoon sleep ;)

Enjoy the music.

Nice talking.

[nietzsche]

@Desciple
The chicken would not have had a life at all if it was not for me. All I can do is make his life as nice as possible and let it dies without pain or fear.
And would you rather die by the claws of a fox and be ripped apart. I recommend the work of Temple Grandin that makes slaughter houses more humain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin

I myself rarely eat chicken but now and than an egg or meat from a bio source does not bother me too much and I thank the chicken cause the chicken thanks me for haven had a life. In India cows are treated very well but there are also very few and they are very badly fed. So it is not that simple at all in my opinion that we can do good by just not doing bad. We have to exist.

Just thoughts..

[Juan]

I want to know the test so I can test Gurinder!

....Simple... all you have to do is get initiated by him, meditate and go inside, but you have to be a REAL GURMUKH.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Tara

I was implying that you do not have the ability to bring a soul to Sach Khand. Sant Rajinder Singh can go there and come back at will. For this reason I am not worth your time to try and "save".

I'm a maximum kind of guy. I'm yet to find someone higher. I have ended my search outwardly. The final journey lies within for me. I'm very under- developed with my meditation practices. I have plenty of work to do. Who knows, I may need another incarnation at the rate I'm going.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Nietzsche

....The chicken would not have had a life at all if it was not for me. All I can do is make his life as nice as possible and let it dies without pain or fear......

If you raised the chicken from birth as a pet, you would never eat it. You would love it too much.

You would not eat your pet dog or cat You would protect them.

[Mike Williams]

If you raised the chicken from birth as a pet,
you would never eat it. You would love it too much.
quote Disciple of Rajinder Singh

Yes, the whole answer lies in love and
compassion. Laws and rules and regulations
and boundaries and beliefs only seperate
and rationalise the most horrible of deeds.

Man is an animal, whom eats other animals.
Therefore man is a cannibal.

[nietzsche]

@Tara
Indeed guilt is the main thing with RS. Guilt about receiving help from any force at all. Everything is Kal in our part of the world. But they have to go to acupuncturists and astrologers with a guilty feeling. This way they show no trust in the master and karma. The diet is often followed and only causes fear and panic when you have to eat somewhere else where everything is not under control.
Than there is the need to be not attached that leeds to depression. The need to close your eyes to everything you see or dream. It is al Kal. Even the people they are agents from Kal making you lonely and full of distrust.
You have to maintain a low ego and feel good at underachieving.
Then you have to meditate making your body numb and without lifeforce and people will see you as having very little aura or charm or radiation. In time the illness will creep in at the bones and muscles. Sometimes I wonder if this whole RS thing is made up by a spirit sucking the life out of its followers.
To go short I was very unhappy there and I'm glad I am free now!
Apologize for the bad chosen words...I try to make a point of how I felt.

[nietzsche]

About the testing method.
As a scientist I followed the hypotheses from RS but after a while I realized that there was something wrong with the equation. I did my experiments over and over again and although I did occasionally feel happy during meditation and my body got lifeless I never came close to changing into a point thingy and going through the third eye. To be honest that seemed like impossible to me. There was also no progress in that direction and from the inquiries around nobody came even close to something miraculous like that.
So after a while I started hypothesizing that it might not be just me that is not successful in meditation. And that idea was confirmed all the time. So together with my own experiences I found it save to conclude that I had to abandon the RS hypotheses or at least change it somehow. Now in that search I discovered that G is not clear on what I would have to expect within giving me no clear guiding and it became more and more obvious that perhaps the RS hypotheses is not the point but G is the point. That hypotheses I am sad to say got confirmed over and over again using all kinds of information sources. This Blog is just one of them.

So what is wise. To go on blindly believing or to abandon the hypotheses and try something else. This later method was followed by all true scientific pioneers so I think that is the way to go now.

The new discoveries I've done this way are far more interesting and can be confirmed and tested in an independant way. I am not saying that I am on an all objective path now because I firmly believe in the interaction between subject and object under study it did give me more insight in the source of our consciousness and the principle of life that I do understand much better now. If there is someone with true intuition in this Blog they might see that all of this is true and not exaggerated. There is a lot to discover outside RS when you open your eyes fore the beauty of it. Life can become meaningful again.

About the chicken. Forget it we don't understand this universe yet. Is it really evil when a lion kills a deer? Perhaps we hold the wrong hypotheses to understand what is going on there. And if there are so much enlightened souls out there than why is not one capable of giving me the right information about matter and life like Mirdad hints at in his book. Seems to me most people are big mouths.

Best wishes none the less.

[Avi]

"Indeed guilt is the main thing with RS."
"You have to maintain a low ego and feel good at underachieving."
"Sometimes I wonder if this whole RS thing is made up by a spirit sucking the life out of its followers."

Some really interesting comments above by nietzsche. I really enjoyed reading them.

Then Tara summed it up beautifully:

"What a disciple loses most is self belief, self trust and self confidence."

To me, the essence of the RS teachings is just following a "simple rule":

Give credit to the Guru for all that is good in your life (both physical and spiritual) and blame yourself (your karma) for all that is bad.

And since this "simple rule" seems to have worked quite effectively for a long time now, I fail to understand why a confused GSD is confusing many others by being inconsistent both with his words and with his actions.

[Gaz]

What a disciple loses most is self belief, self trust and self confidence.

So true, I was going through some problems in life, one of the high RS reps who is assigned to answer questions said to me 'accept it and write off things i cannot have,put it to destiny/karmas'.
Now what would that do to someone who believed in all of the RS dogma? They would beat themselves up, they would say i did this to myself, its my past life karmas,i'm to blame etc.

Karma does exist but i am not sure about past life karma etc, I feel a lot freer now. I feel that I can achieve anything, when I was an RS i didn't have that feeling, i believed in fixed destiny etc.

[Avi]

Gaz,

I do tend to believe in "Karma Theory", but I also believe that it has got nothing to do with what we did in our past life/lives - if at all there was/were some past life/lives at all in the first place!! I also believe in the related proverb, "As you sow, so shall you reap", but again, in my opinion, both sowing and reaping happens in the same (current) life and has got nothing to do with our "past life/lives". I know it's a highly debatable issue especially because it's not always explicit enough for everyone to see "wrong-doers" getting punished for their deeds but I tend to believe that the wrong-doer (who could be any one including me ), himself/herself does perceive the punishment in one way or the other.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To Tara:

There is a current of Light and Sound that flows out from God through the various regions of creation. This divine stream also returns to God. If, through meditation, we connect our soul to this current, we can travel on it back to our Source.

- Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj

Having faith is the key, but without effort it is not going to take us any place. That effort is what takes us from the human to the Divine.

- Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj

Love is contagious; Be a carrier

-Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

TO: NIETZSCHE

"Are we just dabblers in spirituality, like a novice or beginner in a sport or field? Are we more serious and want to put in more time to practice and develop like an intermediate student? Or have we made spirituality our total life? Have we committed to putting all our heart and soul into spiritual development?"

-Sant Rajinder Singh

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: the9thGate

Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj says it is our birthright to know God. He travels the globe giving talks, holding meditation seminars and offering initiation into meditation on the inner Light and Sound, all free of charge. He is a constant support amid the ups and downs of life and a guide and companion on the spiritual journey. A true spiritual Master seeks nothing for himself. Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj lives on his own earnings and accepts no donations. His only wish is to help connect people with their true essence as soul.

-Profile of Sant Rajinder Singh(Speaking Tree)

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: the9thGATE

.....I am guessing you are an initiate. I am assuming you denigrating yourself as a "bad" disciple is a display of humility or guilt about a past only you truly know about....

My intentions were to be sincere. I never used the word bad. I have spent time around advanced initiates of Sant Rajinder Singh. They have spent 10 to 30 years meditating, up to 6 hours a day.

They have the ability to rise above body consciousness, and traverse the inner realms. I'm consciously aware of a living saint, and I know we all have a single or third eye. If opened, we can experience different frequencies of existence while meditating. To get there takes the kind of effort that people currently put in to be professional athletes, business people, or champions in any field. The time factor and amount of effort is similar.

I have not put in that kind of effort, so yes, I don't feel like I've accomplished much spiritually yet.

[Avi]

Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh,

After the three comments above, you should also have posted a fourth one saying something like:

I have been appointed but not sure by whom / I have appointed myself to do extensive advertising for Sant Rajinder Singh on Brian's Blog.

- Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh

[Brian Hines]

Avi, good point. I'm getting tired of the preaching. No more proselytizing "Desciple." Discuss stuff in your own words. Don't preach. I don't want this post to be turned into a Rajinder Singh Praise Piece. Start your own blog if you want to talk about how marvelous this guru guy is.

[Desciple of Sant Rajinder Singh]

To: Blogger Brian

Has the post gone in a different direction than what your mind intended?

I have enjoyed the commentary from all. It has put my attention on spirituality, and it has been inspiring.

Thank you Blogger Brain for the discussion. Any conversation about Rajinder Singh is a good one. Just having your attention on the subject gives benefit.

This has been a wonderful thread.

[Sanjeev Sharma]

I am his disciple & I know that in more than 3 decades of my association with his mission, they have never asked for money. Sprituality is not everybody cup of tea. Masters have said that if they kept a doctor,a accountant & a lawyer, the world would stop at their gates & take the advise of the three & go.

Everybody knows the body is not for ever & the sooner we realise it the better we are. You need to have great depths to understand the words of a Master.

If you are going to a Master to find answers to your illness,a car or a property you are probably going there for wrong reasons....

Did this man expected miracle that his father would live 500 years if he went & asked about the illness. He should have known that we all are sitting on a time bomb which may bring us near to our death anytime anywhere.

A Master makes us realise it to us sooner & put us to path of God , No where Sant Rajinder Singhji has said any time he is saint or living God. It is a matter of faith either one has it all in all or not at all there is no mid way.

& above all he lives on his own Income & he is a renowned Scientist in telecom also with many inventions to his name.

[Avi]

Sanjeev,

"If you are going to a Master to find answers to your illness,a car or a property you are probably going there for wrong reasons...."

That's a good point, Sanjeev. Ideally, the relationship between a Master and a disciple should purely be spiritual. The question, however, is why does Sant Rajinder Singhji not put an outright ban on asking any worldly questions by the disciples? Don't you think it's pretty easy for him to do so by making a categorical statement to that effect in public?

I have never attended any of his satsangs/meetings, but in the several videos available on youtube, he seems to enjoy discussing worldly problems with disciples and also providing "divine grace" to several worldly articles, brought by his disciples, by touching them with his "godly" hands.

What do you think of such actions?

[Je Suis]

Sant Rajinder Singh like all other Godmen in the past in the present and in the future are simply reminding us to empower ourselves as souls by living a consciously aware life - by focusing our attention in the present.

They advise their followers to keep a diary of what they have done against their own individual consciousness - to observe that that thought word or deed has dragged their attention away from the state of purity to a state of indulgence.

They do not have to take the karmic burdens of non initiated souls or interfere with their destiny. They can only do that out of love for an initiate - that love grows when there initiated loves the master and does what the master says.

Sant Mat is not a modern day Jesus path.
It is the path where the initiates are linked to the lowest spiritual realm Sachkhand or Sat lok via the shabd or naam called the ceative power mentioned by John in the Bible as the word. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God. Those who are linked at the time of initiation know they are linked - those who sit in for initiation and have not seen or heard has not been initiated. You should know if you hear or if you see and if not you keep searching or following until you have realised what you need to do to be.
Initiation is a step few really want to take yet many jump in hoping for the blessings without the effort.

Many people think they do not have to do anything and they will get his grace. This is not correct. We need to be aware and to make every effort to purify ourselves. The naam and the shabd of the Sat Guru helps us in that respect. Use it and then see and then hear. Only the Sat Guru can take the soul to its home. Not everyone is going there in this life time as they do not want to as yet. "free will clause"
They prefer not to live their lives consciously aware of their negative desires. Their mind is demanding they indulge and they are following it to its end - suffering.

The Godman is only interested in the soul's realisation and not the minds self created issues out of delusion and desire. Our mind resists this because of its nature - it is a tool of the negative power and we are empowering it with its one true purpose - it deception illusion through lust greed anger ego and attachment. A true master does not have these qualities and shows you how to live by the fruits of your actions. In other words everything that one bad human being can attain so can a good human being. One does not have to be lustful egotistical greedy or angry to get there. Just be good and do good and the fruits of your actions will reap the rewards of your effort. That is the law.

The path of San Mat teaches that by using the same laws we will reap the goods we sow - And offers the truth that if we give love we receive only love in return. We should know if we are doing this for we will be creating the rewards of love. Love is the destination - Love knows no other service but that of sacrifice. Lets keep it pure and real. Lets be consciously aware of our thoughts words and deeds.
Happy Meditating to all who understands where they want to be and become.

[tucson]

Je Suis,

You have taken the words out of Sant Mat books perfectly. You are fully steeped in their dogma. Soaked to the core. No differently than a Catholic, Mormon, Jew or Muslim. I don't say this maliciously or as a personal attack. I am just calling it as I see it.

I think RSSB is a con and you have been duped. I once bought into it. Wake up!(even though there is no volitional choice in the matter). Many have and are shocked at what they once blindly believed without any sort of evidence.

Do you want to base your life on a roll of the dice? Many do. Anyway, we all reach the end of our lives one way or another no matter what we do. So, it really doesn't matter. We all get back to the undifferentiated state after this phenomenal, apparent interlude.

Still, as the days and years pass I seem to know less and less with certainty. So, I could be wrong and the joke is on me.

I have known many Godmen. In fact I have never met anyone who was not a Godman in my eyes. Some Godmen are like saints and some are assholes. Very few of them serve up the same load of concepts like your "Godman" presents. Most do carry a conceptual overload though..of infinite variety.

For some reason you have jumped aboard this ship. It is as it has to be. My words will change nothing. Still, I find myself writing them in the same way we all find ourselves living and doing, or better, being lived and being done.

I wish you well and have a blast!!

[Slayd]

Tucson did you jump from dogma to dogma? Are everybody just jumping from dogma to dogma? than is the new question.
Remember from believing in PLM to imagining you are moon watching her self. Many time i see you guys just left RS but you actually did not change the thinking you just jumped from subject to subject and again you will have to wake up in a few years.

Tara said that she jumped from RS to zen approach of Huang Po but does she know that Po'e deciples were beaten by him how she would describe that as more relaxed approach?

Than many preach about Dzogchen and with Norbu you can also find many superficial sayings as in RS

And i will not go further but i am saying that you guys did not leave dogma you just left the subject you are just looking in another direction thus far you have different feedback.I think that dogma is still in you no matter which subject you will reach and i think you are no more awake than christians mormons rs's... you just intelectualy chewed different subjects so now you can trick yourself to any emotions and feelings and you cannot be wake up and if i take your word 'should i tell you or should i leave you in your self convincing world that you are right' I think that there is so small difference in your thinking before and affter leaving these groups that is not even worth mentioning i think you still dwelling in dogma. If you want to leave you have to change the structure of your thoughts and not the subject
when you leave the subject is just a small ammount of change which decreases in few days and than if you do nothing with renewing your thoughts the same sample comes back but you are already looking at different subject so your own samle tricks you so you think you are the new awaked thinking but ,you don't.Peace

[Gaz]

Hey Tucson,

Do you recognize the person below?

http://www.rssbcommunity.com/home/status_details/247#prettyPhoto

It's the official photo of Gurinder.

[SupBrah]

I suppose the gist of Sant Mat philosophy is to have inner revelations by doing the meditation, not in giving out random healings (i.e. meddling in someone else's karma).

[Mike Williams]

I watched hundreds of initiations by Darshan,
Rajinder's father and also Kirpal.
99% of all people got nothing and the 1 %
saw blue or stars, etc.

I have seen a great many from this
particular group possessed by entities.
It is the most dangerous group on the
earth in my experience.

[Gaz]

Hey Mike,

How did Darshan die? I heard he got shot in Birmingham UK by Sikhs.

Also what do you think of Michael Martin?

[Mike Williams]

Hi gaz,
Darshan Singh was not killed by the Sikhs.
That was another Darshan, just same name.

As far as I know Darshan died unexpectedly.
He had a heart attack and just keeled over.
Yogananda died same way only he
was standing up and fell face down in a Los Angeles Hotel.

Michael Martin was very ill. I say that
in the mental term of the word. Disturbed
person. I believe he was possessed.

[tucson]

Hello Gaz,

Well, I only saw GSD once in San Francisco circa 1991.

With so much beard and turban covering him up I don't see much change since then or from the last official picture. Glasses. A wrinkle or two. A little more white in the beard. Still, it must be very gratifying for satsangis to finally have a new official picture of their param sant satguru. I think the former official picture was all they had for about 22 years if I am not mistaken. That man does not like to have his picture taken.

The visit to SF by GSD in '91 was the beginning of the end of my association with Sant Mat. It wasn't just him. I looked around the auditorium and something just clicked. I no longer was one of the fold. I was on the outside looking in, so to speak.

I guess you could say I was initiated in 1970 and uninitiated in 1991.

Slayd,

There is quite a difference in our respective viewpoints and "where we are coming from". I don't think further comment will help. But yes... Peace.

[Slayd]

I am member of no group just simple peasant and sorry Tucson if i left feeling that i am talking to you only i just wanted to stress out that when you left one subject of thinking there could be that only subject was changed and not thinking.
I wanted to say that only leaving the group is only the beginning . When one removes the drug he is not cured of addiction it is only the fundament.And this is not my critic this is my review of thousands of read messages here and by rounds of conversations here i see that people are just changing subjects and not the way of thinking.