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March 27, 2012


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Well, should we be suprised?


Religion is the best racket. In this country, it's exempt from taxes, and believers happily donate their labor as well as their money. The higher up you are in a religious organization, the more respect you get for being unscrupulous enough to exploit the human weakness that enables it all.

Must be God's Will.

It seems so,

These are the words of Hazur Maharaj Charan Singh;

I have told you that saints can do whatever they like. There is absolutely no restriction on them, but generally they do not like to break the law of nature.
They always remain in the will of the Lord.

Saints do not come merely to improve the life of the prisoners. They do not come to raise our standard of living in this world. They come to set us free from this world and take us back to the Lord. That is their mission in this life; that is their purpose in this world. So, we should always try to know the teachings of the saints, the real mystics—the mystic way that the Lord wants us to follow: how to get out of this prison: how to get out of this world; how to go back to Him. We should try to seek their teachings in their books, and not give so much importance to where they were born; what were their miracles; what they did; who were their parents;whether they had a teacher or not. We should not get ourselves confused in history, in these matters; that is not the purpose of our lives; we should not worry about these things at all.

What is it going to be used for?

Foe making of tousands and tousands of chapaties. jk

Sounds good! I'll be right over!

The lord will provide whatever is required for the masters to full fill their obligations on this plane - everything is in the power of the lord. In order for the messages that RSSB put across to be spread money is vital. The master does not steal from the chela but the master shall provide the chelas with evrything from his own, Radha Soami Ji

I am not sure whether this has been repeated before on this site but when GSD came to power so to speak my amused Satsangi friends claimed that he asked the following question...

"How do you know that I am not a fraud?"

tousands and tousands of chapaties to feed the poor,the next step of softhearted Almighty Babaji will be even a more bigger space for their shelter.

GSD has said this in various occasiones,How do you know that I am not a fraud,or Maybe I am a biggest fraud, How do you know?

Maybe 4-5 years ago babaji said the same thing in spain and in the next day satsang the speaker explained very clearly the way to verify it, and that is to take initiation from a True Master and go inside.

I'm wondering with all these satsang centres in so many countries whether Baba Ji is preparing in advance for when the worldly sh** hits the fan and the satsangis will go to these areas to survive.

There you go... a conspiracy theory as well just to annoy heh heh.

After all he might not be a fake and can actually see what's coming. I do remember him saying some 15 years ago that you won't want to be around in 40 years time.


I am curious how you learned about the planned purchase of the office building in Irvine. Do you also know about the large parcel of land that is being bought very close to the Petaluma center? I heard that a tile factory will be run on that site. Lots of seva opportunities will manifest at both locations, no doubt.

Don Pedro, someone who uses Google News to keep track of stories about Radha Soami Satsang Beas sent the story link to me. All you have to do is ask Google to email you whenever a certain subject comes up in a news story.

I don't know anything about the Petaluma land.

Hi(nagual)Don Pedro,

This comment is directed to readers interested in RSSB (Sant Mat Beas) in general and not just Don Pedro. Please feel free to respond vigorously if need be and if the motivation is there.

RSSB is big business, don't you think?

Do you have any speculations why a perfect Param Sant Sat Guru, sent here by God from the highest region of splendor and glory to release trapped souls who are deeply embedded up to their necks in the quagmire of this filthy outpost known as Pind, would be so involved with material acquisition in said cesspool? Yes, The Great Master (former RSSB guru) did call this world (region) a "latrine" in comparison to the higher regions.

Seems like that is what RSSB teaches we are to get away from. All this worldly crap. You know, live a modest, simple life and attend to your simran and bhajan.

Who knows or can understand the Mauj (will) of such a Great One even though it seems a bit incongruous and a strange example to set in light of the teachings? It must all be for our own good and best interest. Right?

RSSB is not big business in spite of what your assumption might be

Plus if you had an iota of an idea of who the person is that heads the RSSB movement you would only then be in any position as to verify whether he is a fraud or not..

as it stands you are not in such a position, so better consider your own position fraught with inadequate objectivity in this here universe.. that is all that will benefit you at any time from here on out...

O, so what makes you an expert in "objectivity"? Isn't what you say just as subjective as what you claim everybody else says.

Oh, except my blog posts about Gurinder Singh making hundreds of millions from his guru/RSSB connections are based on facts. So who wins the objectivity contest!


the best one was from the Radha Swami Satsang Beas (RSSB. In all they constructed 6 community shelters at most affected places and their state-of-art construction is just seeing-is-believing. They approached the administration for just identification of sites of construction to be done by them, and did this job in record one month time at all the places. Their next meet with us was when a soft spoken, down-to-earth, former Air Vice Marshal entered my office and thanked with all humility for being given the “opportunity” to help the people, and handed over the keys. No press statements, no inaugurations, no sign boards or marks of RSSB on these building – it was first time in my life I saw an organisation having contributed in real terms for the poor and tragedy hit people and not claiming even an iota of publicity


Are you writing this blog to the rejection of not being given a higher office seva? RS & yourself are confusing the hell out of those with a mind!!!

And furthermore you have alot of people on this site making comments-due to them not having the mindset to just leave things alone!!! Your blog should be called "Church of the Attention seekers!

Arjun, I started this blog in November 2004, after George Bush was re-elected president of the United States. I was deeply disturbed by how the religious right acted during the campaign, with their hatred for gay marriage and such. At that time I was still an active member of RSSB.

Now, I keep the blog up because I enjoy what I'm doing. I also feel good when people tell me how much they enjoy my posts. If you don't like this Church of the Churchless, there's a big wide world of the Internet to explore. Each to his own.

It always amuses me when someone, like you, takes the time to leave a comment that criticizes me and/or this blog for being egotistical or attention seeking. Isn't that what you're doing, seeking attention for your views by posting something on the Internet. We're all the same, Arjun: humans, with our own personal opinions.

Blog should be named as "Personal opinion of Brian for the shake of enjoyment & feeling good" and not as "church of the churchless".Whether his opinion r right or not is a secondary thing.How much is his enjoyment and till when it will continue or last can't be said...

..though wrongly spelt...connotation of the para.. is clear to u...

How much is his enjoyment and till when it will continue or last can't be said...
Only Almighty Babaji can say.

Tara, there is no question of lightening up…infact, I also laughed upon myself when I learnt about my mistake…anyhow, what I concluded from Brian’s post above, I just wrote that. It appeared to me from his post that “happiness & feeling good” are the ultimate things (rather I would say more than knowledge of ultimate truth regarding God reality so far discussed since very long) for Brian. I only added comment regarding it’s ‘quantification’ and ‘time span”.

Raj your to defensive dude

OK…. if u feel so… But it would be better to focus upon “seeking peace, happiness or feeling good”- the ultimate purpose of this blog…

Fake news....show proof then talk.
People are jealous and trying to destroy image of beas dera. People always did this with all Saints. If you read story of Sikh Gurus and others saints such as Kabir sahib ji, Ravidas ji, Jesus chris.Evils demons were so scared of God that they tried to bring Saints down in all times. Sikh Gurus were actually having very few followers. Most of the people were against their teachings. Because at that time pandits were telling people to do idol worship. Muslims also wanted to do all kind of crimes under the name of Allah. So they did not want to accept their teaching. Sikh Gurus teaching was not new teaching it was as old as the first Saint's teaching but with time people mix their thoughts in original teaching.
I am happy to give all my wealth to beas dera, because I know that material things have no value as compared to my actual self- my soul.

Man make religions. Saints do not make it. Saints only make us aware of universal laws. Stop calling it a religion. You can call it a School or teaching centre, where from different backgrounds students come and according to their intellectual they take admission in their respective class.

Rahul, you wrote,

People are jealous and trying to destroy image of beas dera.
...Is it beacause they also want to start a new cult,religion or school or teaching centre?

Evils demons were so scared of God that they tried to bring Saints down in all times.
...are the evil demons trying to bring the saints up nowadays?

Because at that time pandits were telling people to do idol worship.
...are the pandits now telling people to worship the Perfect Living Master?

I am happy to give all my wealth to beas dera, because I know that material things have no value as compared to my actual self- my soul.
...though Almighty Babaji wants all his disciples to be real Gurmukhs, but do you think all your wealth will be sufficient for beas dera or for Baba Gurinder Singh?

Man make religions. Saints do not make it.
...are the saints not men?

You can call it a School or teaching centre, where from different backgrounds students come and according to their intellectual they take admission in their respective class.
...can the students complete the studies and start their own school/teaching centre in this lifetime? Is it permitted by the Master? Has anybody been able to complete the studies in this lifetime?

Tara u wrote….." Seeking peace, happiness or feeling good " is always good !
Now the question is - which is superior –“ Happiness” or “knowledge discussed so far….which is always ending in uncertainty and leading to nowhere” ...
Inspite of the tonnes of knowledge if somebody is still dissatisfied and seeking more knowledge in order to get “happiness”; what is the use of such knowledge….never achieving the “purpose”.. always entangled in the “means”..

Raj, with due respect. You need to wake up buddy. You seem so agitated by these "trivial" matters. This blogg serves it purpose very well. Your insinuation of Brian's motivations appear rather deluded. I have met many worshipers of GIHF from different organisation ( 21 century relgions in the making , you can call then spirtual centres or what ever you like) and from my experience 95% of the followers are all the same ( you my friend are one of the 95 %) there are the lucky 3% who escape (like Brian) and there is and there is another 2 % ( whom i cant be bothered to explain about now).
Anyway there is nothing to worry about and get your knickers in a twist. Just relax and enjoy the time we have.

It’s not me it’s Brian who wrote-“I keep the blog up because I enjoy what I'm doing. I also feel good when people tell me how much they enjoy my posts”. I only concluded ‘Happiness”’ is what he is getting in the end…

Brian’s motivations have brought much of the truth (especially negative) pertaining to spiritual centres (especially Beas) but what do they have ultimately given them after making them lucky enough to escape..

I do not deny that spiritual centres r not devoid of problems. There r positives and negatives.95% people r not intellectually so developed as Brian is…
However, science itself seems to rest more upon belief rather than scientific explanations. How the randomness and chance of infinitely small world of particle physics has given rise to such order and pattern of the physical universe demands equal belief as is required in case of faith systems. We r living in an universe of uncertainty whether towards faith centres side or towards brian’s.

In the end, as u wrote, the things r again ending in relaxing and enjoying the time we have amidst such uncertainty…

See how smartly you intellectual people ignored post by avs on April 02, 2012 at 12:19 PM above. This exposes your ulterior motive behind criticising RS. You are not at all ready to accept the good work done by RS. GSD himself was there in ladakh during that time to see the charitable work. And there is no hype, no media, no advertisement.

BTW, how come you missed this post Brian. Guess by mistake ;) he he

Poor souls running here and there for seeking attention. (I know you will catch this line and divert the direction again as usual)

Rahul I wrote

You are also man....Do you think you are Saint or have a clean life and knowledge of God like a Saint?
Do you think a man can become a Saint?
Do you think all Sikh Saints and other Saints who performed so much miraculous deeds,........ a common man can also do those?
If a man can do he can also open a teaching centre.............why you donot open one? I will see how much power you have to attract people. You are also man.......do you think you are God or Saint.
Moreover Saints do not start any religions bastards like you give name of religion. Nature of evils are same in all ages. They are still not trying to bring Saint up. Ex. Story of Prahlad and His evil Aunt in silver age.

Saints teaching is not man made it is God made and same in all ages. Saints just come to remind us that old teaching time to time. Man destort the actual teaching after each Saint. Just like you....comments you are posting.

We know that our SatGuru do not take a single penny from our wealth for their personal use. We also know that how discomfortable life they live for us which apparently looks very luxurious superficially to ignorant people like you.
Moreover it is my hard earned wealth ... why are you jealous? I will give to anyone to whom I love the most. I do not wish to give my wealth to Dera for langar for poor people but I want to give it to my Satguru personally.
We know our Satguru.......
You bastrad..... we are not atleast like you......who worship dead cold lifeless unspoken stone statues. Who was krishna and rama was then. They were not having men's body, wives and family. Who were they? Who performed so many miracles? You are also man body like Krishna? Why do not you go to krukshetra and fight like you beloved Krishna?
Saints physical body is like us. They are not powerless like us.
Our Satguru is against all kind of outer worship even against physical body of living Satguru. But even in the case He will tell us to worship His physical body we are happily ready to do it.

The world is full of many wicked and culprit people like brian. How evil can be alighned with opposition (opposite power of his)?

Brian you need to go to pshycologist for check up?

95% people of the world are wicked and have no brain like brian? While 5% people are good and intelligent who are following Dera Beas

Gurupayari, at least I have lots of company and never will feel lonely, since I'm part of the 95%.

Actually, I'm part of something like the 99.9%, since much fewer than 5% of the world's population are Radha Soami Satsang Beas initiates.

Do you really think that everyone in the world is wicked, aside from RSSB devotees?

Also, for thirty-five years I also was a RSSB follower. So during that time you say I was "good and intelligent." How did I become wicked and brainless? I feel like the same person, but according to you I'm not.



Well said. No Rational being can disagree with your last post

I definitely do agree with –‘Uncertainty is the only certainty, change is the only constant, dissatisfaction is relative’ and ‘Happiness, seeking & fun are the reasons people indulge in chatter here’. But how chatter here is liberating..? Liberating from what & liberating to where….?.....again to unknowingness & uncertainty...ever constants in both sides..

I would like to say to all these sick minded westerners that they live in a culture which is in very opposition to God's law. Did Babaji or Maharaji came to invite you for initiation. you did it with your own willingness. If after that you could not keep those 4 eastern vows of moral chracter and vegetraian food.because it is very hard for you people to do it. you are not used to it......if you could not keep it why to blame on our kind Masters. I am surprised where and how you will pay for this biggest sin against holy ghost and son. One westerner asked Babaji recently (which very usual questions from all westerners)"If one is initiated, but did not follow the Santmat rules and obey 4 vows. Would that peson will be saved at the time of death. Babaji's answer was "If someone is digging their own graveyard, what anyone else can do? If whole life you do not love Him........what can you expect from Him. Laws are same for everyone. There is no different rules for initiated. Who gave you gurantee at the time of initiation that you are allowed to do all kind of sins and still you would be saved?"
I am very sorry for you people.........

I am surprised these people are writing so much about dera. I have a question, “Were you invited by any authority in beas to come there. You came their by your own wish. Noone put external force on you or invite you personally to come there and follow it. Are you doing this for welfare of other people….I think most of the people who are following doing it by their own will and feel quite safe there. They do not need your public opinion.

gurupayari kaur

I was answering the question of raj. I would like to say that this is Iron age.really dangerous age of all yougas.if you are Hindu you know. Golden age was standing on 4 legs of dharma. Silver age on 3 legs and copper age on 2 legs and iron age on one leg of dharma and 3 legs of adharma. Most of people in this age are doing misdeeds against Gods' law and preparing their way for hell. Very few people live moral life which is very hard without the guidance of true Guru. As you said have you changed.....yes, good people can become bad if they do not have strong basis. As Babaji said" building can fall down if foundation is not strong. laws are same for every one. There is no different rules for initiated. Who has given you gurantee that you are allowed to do all kinds of misdeeds still you would be saved. Noone gave gyrantee. That was His words.

To Tara:

So u already realize that ultimate reality can’t be known ultimately. Whether it is there or not. So suspending ‘seeking’ or reason u prefer “happiness, fun or blissful feeling of expressing yourself freely” even if it is momentary.

This is what I very initially pointed out – ‘happiness is what Brian is getting ultimately out of this blog…. Whether his opinion r right or not is a secondary thing’…

Now if very act of knowing is always ending in unknowingness (in absolute terms) and ‘happiness’ is the ultimate purpose, then how Brian’s side can be better from RSSB ans…

Most of the RSSB ian are too very happy people because with their faith even if they r bound to follow certain ethical rules (for u it may be lack of freedom for self expression) it is their faith which is giving them hope, love and all such nice feelings which are ultimately giving them blissful feeling of happiness and who knows.. may be their faith may contain possibilities to realize the ultimate…..the objective non-symbolic reality…

…..and at the same time they at the same level of unknowingness like u… in such scenario I think they are at the better end..…

Stop putting comments about Dera beas and our beloved Satgurus. Dera beas and our Satgurus never backbite and criticize anyone and also never interfere in anyone's belief. Everyone is free to build their faith where ever they like to build. No one has right to criticize others belief. RSSB never criticize others beliefs and faiths. It is personal view and matter of habits only. The things on which one person's mind enjoy and feel freedom, might not be same for other person. I and my most of Radhasoami friends feel very free by following 4 vows. When even I think about breaking those vows I feel like trapped and prisoner. So freedom for one person can be a prison for others. Some people's mind inclination is more towards negative lifstyle and some people's mind is more inclined to positive lifestyle. It is matter of purity of mind and habits.East is east and west is west. Westerns mind is habitual and live on negative way of life and feel free and happy when express themselves without taking consideration to make others sufferer for their enjoyment. If you kill someone ---- cause pain and take life of other living being... how it is possible that God who is father of all can forget pain of that animal. For Him all are same. causing pain to any animal hurt God as much as causing pain to Human. As Babaji said " We are free to do whatever we want to do. But we do not put our noses into other's business because it is a encroachment to other beings freedom"

Agam, if you really believe in what you wrote, then why are you putting your nose into the business of this blog?

Aren't I free to do whatever I want to do? Isn't anyone who visits this blog free to do whatever they want to do? What gives you the right to say "stop putting comments"?

Well, it is the same right we all have. You have an opinion about what is true, and everybody else has their own opinions. Discussing opinions can be useful and fun. So what's the problem? If you don't like what's written on this web site, don't read it.

Our beloved SATGURUS never gave advertisement. Nowadays, even they started to announce before initiation that anyone who is not confident taht they are willing to follow can leave. There is no persuasion at all from Dera beas to follow them. People do because they want to do. They never force anyone for any kind of Sewa. Maharaji and Babaji can say some words about seva to very dear and near Satsangis of Him. He only say words to those who are willing to listen........ not to everyone. If they stop to eat meat , drink wine or high moral chracter.......He also explained the reason why He stopped. But grossed minded impure mind do not want to grasp.

Preet wrote,

I am surprised these people are writing so much about dera. I have a question, “Were you invited by any authority in beas to come there. You came their by your own wish. Noone put external force on you or invite you personally to come there and follow it.

..... I think it is an open invitation by Almighty Babaji Don Gurinder Singh to all to come to Dera and satsang and it is because of this he is opening new satsang centers every day, but of course he is going to initiate only the marked souls.

Gurupayari kaur wrote,

As Babaji said" building can fall down if foundation is not strong. laws are same for every one. There is no different rules for initiated. Who has given you gurantee that you are allowed to do all kinds of misdeeds still you would be saved. Noone gave gyrantee. That was His words.

.....Words of Hazur Maharaj Charan Singh in his book The Master Answers... One is given birth according to his/her karmas,in a lower specie if his/her karmas are bad, but an initiate will never be sent lower than the human birth, so during the time of Maharaj Charan Singh there were different rules for initiated.

Has Almighty Babaji has changed the rules?

There is no such thing as transmigration,no, not even for the animals. Its a lie that was made up to control human beings. Once a human always a human. At re-birth (if in fact reincarnation is proven to be a fact) an individuality; note, not "soul" (because "soul" is only one part of our human make up, the others broadly speaking being body and spirit), may find itself, in less favorable circumstances, but always in a human body. There is not a shred of evidence physical or extra-physical to support the theory of transmigration. Its totally irrational and its irrationality is provable.

Some one asks:

Do you think a man can become a Saint?

Of-course! That is precisely the idea. Anyone can become a Saint if they want it badly enough.

Do you think all Sikh Saints and other Saints who performed so much miraculous deeds,........ a common man can also do those?

Absolutely. Given motivation, time, appropriate instruction by a qualified teacher (s) absolutely and resoundingly - YES. That my dear is the whole purpose. Saint Hood and Guru Hood is not for only the elect. Its a little like Motherhood. If a woman has a healthy uterus, an ovum and a sperm she in all probability can reproduce.

Saints teaching is not man made it is God made and same in all ages. Saints just come to remind us that old teaching time to time.

I can go with this but even a Saint got it from somewhere right? Some other "Saint" passed it on to him or her, right?

Saints physical body is like us. They are not powerless like us.

You see, this sentiment above is a clear example of mind control and learned helplessness. YOU, as an individual Ego are NOTHING, GURU is EVERYTHING. In fact give up your hard earned and hard birthed individualizing ego to the group ego. This is what all cults are about. You cannot be a Free Thinker in a cult. Elementary.

Agam wrote
:Has Babaji changed the rules
You also have not read which was written in one othe book that every one has to pay for Karma whether Satsangi or non-Satsangi. Actually Satsangi can not become by mere initiation. Initiation is not more than expressing you desire to get rid of this world. Sat sangi means Sat means Truth sangi means company. Truth is which doesnot destroy. Material world is temporary, no realty in it because it is destructible just like your own body. if you find yourself indulging in material and senses pleasure its mean that......you are away from truth. He definitely help who sincerely try to lead path. But who do not put any effort from their side He also can not do anything. It does not mean he has limited power........He is all powerful.but rule is "Jhan asa whana wasa" it means where ever your attention will be, you will go" Where is will, there is way". Babaji used to say that when whole of life your mind has been scattered in worldly things, it is not at all possible to draw your attention to God at time of death in short tiem of period. Because mind is quick learn to develop habits. deep impression of wrong doings can not be erased in short cut way. If you drive your car on opposite side on fast speed. Someone stop you and say that you are going opposite side. right direction is where you have strated. You will stop and turn back, it will take you same time to go back to that point from where you started your journey at first place then you can start your journey on right direction. because everyon's desires are needed to be fulfilled in this life or another. Till you are not satisfied with material pleasure you will keep coming till you are fully satisfied......as per mind's nature it never can be satisfied.....more desires you ignite more it demand...thus without becoming rational and controlling it you keep coming and going trillions of years . Also remember with all material desire and sensual pleasures there is bill attached. Because no pleasure can be enjoyed without causing pain and sufferingto others. Pain and suffering to His creatures (whether it is your own 'agam') cause pain to Him which is unforgivable. If you got a visa (which is human birth), you buy a ticket (which is initiation) but do not prepare yourself for trip and get on the plane .... how can you reach your destination. If on world level you have to make efforts how can you think that you can cross 3 vast planes (which are beyond understanding of human brain and mind) without proper plan, preparation and getting on ship of truth. Many Satsangis who ate eggs after intition has been sent to lions life to fulfill their desires of flesh and blood eating. There is no concession for Satsangies. Hurt for hurt.......if you are hurt, you feel pain same way when you hurt others, others also feel same pain. Do you think God is biased who can forgive you to cause pain to others but punish others to cause pain to you. There are trillions of living cretures.everyone is same to Him. No one is soecial except who spend time in His rememberance for thanking His gifts and obey His rules. Yes, they are special and those Sat-Sangis are not sent to lower species. Babaji said, "We should not hurt others feelings even with bitter language and words. We create very heavy Karma" If you have brain and have capability to conclude...you must understand that God's law is very strict in the matter of hurting others" Babaji used to say " If you will walk 10 steps, He will take 100 steps to help you". God help those who help themselves. If you wish and very happy to dig your own grave.....what anyone else can do. Then why are you not happy when you face consequence of that enjoy. You are happy to enjoy and unmindful of hurt to others at the same time, when it comes back to you...you must be happy at that time as well to accept result of hurting others for your momentary fun. If you criticise God at that time it means you are hypocrite or fool. You want to have all kind of fun yourself without taking care of others and still want favor from God. Do you think you are centre of universe and everything is revolving around you for you only even God is at your disposal who must favor you only and must give you everything at the cost of rest of creatures. Yet you are not responsible for others and God? So shall you saw so shall you reap.....same rule for everyone. In His house there is only justice........equally justice. there is no bribe and partialty at all.

To Agam and janya barish.....

Actually we are not putting nose in others business.........you people are one who started this stupid blog and hurting feeling of many believers on this path. What ever your belive is, we do not care. Does anyone of us write against your believe on publically. We respect all Saints teachings and all man made religions. We never criticize any one, never back bite anyone's faith as you are doing. I think everyone is free to make their decision that what kind of life a person want to live. In this free world, We are free to choose our teaching schools or faiths (if that faith is not harming other people). Your blog is meant to hurt others feelings by insulting their beloved Gurus and their faith. I have not seen this kind of nasty comments not even by terrorists. Even terrorist respect to lifeless idols of Hindus? terrorists take life of others and you people are hurting others feelings..you are not less than any don and trying to rule the RSSb with your nasty mind.
Question of controlling ego and mind? If you do not have control on your mind and building your ego due to you earthen pot physical body which is like a sinking ship and you are imagining that it is unbeatable and unsinkable? You will be proved wrong very soon. When death comes it comes to even strongest people of the world also who use menatlly, emotionally and physically weak women for sensual fun and use kids for satisfying their greed of money by putting them in factories to suck their blood to gain teir false status. They suddenly realise that their unsinkable strong body and intellectual brain is drawing in tusanmi like a straw. In ego of this strong earthen pot, he was thinking himself unbeatable taht all rest of creatures can do no harm to him because he is the strongest. Many kings of this world have cause pain and shown hellish life to many women for their lust. But what they gained at the end of day. One day that unsinkable unbeatable strong pot met with an tragic accident and disease and it finished in one second and after that see same hell as he has shown to others. Now, Where is your ego man? Are you not now feeling helpless, the weakest and ego less in front of nature' strenth and power? Are you feeling as weak as rest of creatures were feeling under your rule? We are rational and logic so we do not place our faith on impermanent weak earthen pot. it is better to become humble and kind towards others rather than to be ruler of all and create false ego of being the strongest. Whatever teaching we following, we are doing so with our intellect, under full consiousness and not under control of any cruel and brutal ruler. West is west, East is East..both can not meet. Western theory is based on drawin's law " Survival for fittest" which means if yuo are mentally, intellectually and physically strong if you can use and kill other creatures, only then you can survive. Eastern theory in vedas, "Survival for the rightest", which means you are not strong enough to fight with powers which are much stronger than you. Humans are very weak infront of nature and cosmic laws. If you want to gain Nature's favour then be good, humble and kind to all creatures and obey cosmic laws. you will be saved by them"
Some children was tested in USA, and shown 2 games one was football and other was bull fighting. They were asked all the children what they rember, "Some children said, we saw football match" while others said, "we saw bull fighting" Researchers found that children who remembered bull fighting was one who were from mexico and voilent families. Others were from very good environment. So conclusion is that you perceive things as your mind is trained to do. If your mind developed negative habits, you will find negativity in every positive thing. You might be thinking I am living positive life it is you perception but if it will be measured with unbiased mind, it would be found that you are verymuch at negative pole on scale of life style. It might be very normal for you to kill others for survival but for other people might be thinking different way. Carribans think killing man is not a sin, there is no punishment for that. Westerners think killing man is sin but killing animals are not sin, so there is no punishment for killing animal. Indians (traditional and actual) think that killing both are wrong. (But in laws there is very less punishment these days to kill animals die to influence of western culture. generally people do not think it is right to kill animals. If you go beas, even plucking flower without good reason is not acceptable behaviour? Do not you have brain to think? If you have brain then think, think and think on that statement. Are you animal? Animals are made up of 4 elements, humans are made up of 5 elements. If you think and behave like animals what is the use of extra 5th element. Then you dserve to go to 4 element body.

To Tara:

U have suspended seeking (ultimate knowingness); u have also suspended hope & faith and have chosen to enjoy the life as it is freely with it’s temporary enjoyments….

It is the point where our trajectories are dissociating…realizing that there is no ultimate knowhow I have chosen to drift towards faith side. U are finding same risk in both sides however I not.. where your side is totally denying any possibility of ultimate knowhow and also rejecting faith & hope, here even if we are not having the former, we have the later one…

Hope for what… hope for new experiences (paranormal) and their enjoyment…. When I am talking about such experiences I am not concerned with the knowhow of their mechanics.. subjective or objective nature….

I am concerned herewith quality & quantity of enjoyment…whether it is coming from real or virtual experiences……at least I am enjoying the purpose… This purpose(happiness) is the ultimate herein faith side for me and not the ‘ultimate’ of knowhow arena…

…and happiness is something not always dependent upon knowhow…we may know and still we may not be happy….

Janya,These are the words of Hazur Maharaj Charan Singh in his book “The Master Answers:

The problem with the Bible is that nobody took notes at that time (Christ’s teachings were given to the masses and some of them passed them on to others and so on). So many things were suppressed by the church and by interested peoples. Only that much is given to us which can keep us under their hold.447 Q. Is it ever necessary for a satsangi to reincarnate into animal form? That is, one who has been initiated by a true Master?

Even if his karma was bad, he will not be sent lower than human birth. It is not necessary for that soul to come back into the animal form. We do not come down. We go up. Such a person may get another human form and in that form he will have to go through all those bad karmas, but he will not go down into a lower species.

448 Q. If people do wrong, do they not come back as animal?

NOT INITIATES. Of course, otherwise, one has to come back according to his karma, into whatever species our karma designated. But you had asked whether it was “necessary” for a satsangi. It is not necessary. He can improve right from there.

Whereas you wrote:
There is no such thing as transmigration,no, not even for the animals. Its a lie that was made up to control human beings. Once a human always a human.

Was Maharaj Charan Singh lying?

Maharaj Charan Singh, might have been mistaken. Gurus are not infallible.

There is no such thing as Transmigration. There might be the "results" of inferior actions that show up in an individual's higher bodies/states, but no there is no physical transmigration. No, people do not come back as animals.

Dear sirs I am a satsangi of Beas,but no I quit and not attending satsangs at Chennai,because the Sindhi dominated funtioneries they want only postings for that they will do what ever they want, we local sangaths were duing seva and this sindhies will command us that they are masters. They buy lands with their black money and donate to Dera.Dera was happy.I request Babaji through lot of letters but no action againest this sindhies. So we local all left RSSB and the sindhies happy and spending cores of rupees to develop a land 0f 4.5 acors with out inform the dera and their black money is become white.

It is totally waste of time to put comment on this stupid blog. You are cooking your own stories and twisting and distorting sant mat message. It is not that easy to understand for human brain universal truth. If you are initiated and want to condsole yourself that you will get 4 more human birth after that and will be freed afterwards so you can disobey all the rules of Santmat.Because after all you are intitiated and can not go to lower species so can enjoy all sensual pleasure, you are wrong. I think you are trying to misinterpret message of Maharaji. He used word "Satsangi" which means who have company of truth. You can not be satsangi if you have company of worldly objects and enjoying all kind of sense enjoyment. In this casae you are "Jhootsangi". Mere initiation does not make you Satsangi. It is just expression of desire that you want to have company of truth. Till the moment you do not put it into practice, you are not in company of truth. If you behave like animanls..you deserve to go to lower species.... that law is same for everyone. If you do not have control on your mind.. you can not even take one step on this path. If your mind is controlled by wine and enjoyment...there is no way you can reach ultimate destination. You will have to come and go just like normal creatures. But because you are initiated, there is one benefit, when your lust will finish you will meet again with a Saint. It is written clearly in Gurugranth Sahib ji" If you have lustful desires for men or women you will become prostitute in next birth. If you are mad for having kids or loving kids, you will become pi, where your desire can be fully satisfied. If you love money, you will become serpent. If you are attached your house, you will become ghost. Definitely these things are not for Satsangis but jhoothsangis who are attached to worldly enjoyment and sensual fun.

You are the only one who is talking from real world experience because you do not have control on your mind. Rest all of us are fool.

You people are commenting against a faith which never crticize anyone, never backbite. We are not interested in your life that whom you follow and by whom your mind is controlled? Why are you interfering in our faith? It should be none of anyone's business. If you do not want to follow, noone is going to invite you to come Dear? We want these kind of dons away from our dera. Please never enter into Dera and do not follow them. We do not need you. If you will show your identity, if myself will give all of you people detail on the main gate that they should not let enter you people back in dera. Stop critising our faith. Enough is enough. Talk about your faith....we do not care.

Don't take it so personally, honey.

The masters have ample means of protecting themselves, much more than you and I. I feel certain that a "true" master would be delighted that some upstart "chela (s)were astute and independent enough to ask important questions. A "master" or "Guru" who is confident of his own teachings, would probably laugh and blow it all off with a wisdom filled observation.

And its not just "your" faith, isolated at Dera in Beas, Punjab,India, next to Amritsar and a hair's breath from Pakistan, but this "faith" has a world wide presence, which in itself piques interest, comment, appreciation and criticism as well.

Also, don't you think that for a cult

((you know darling, it is a cult, even if a very high, noble and lovely one and a decent one that one cannot help loving and wanting to be a part of, even if vicariously))

that encourages "getting away from this stinking hell hole of Pinda", to indulge in very Pinda like activities is ironic?

This type of worldy materialism, even if for a good cause is bound to raise eyebrows.


Not even Quid Pro Quo but Stockholm!

What would happen if the world wide sevadars presented a bill for services rendered? I mean, really, what benefit do you get by providing free services to an organization that purchases a multi-million dollar office building in a foreign land?

My comment is directed at the anonymous person and no one else.

Thank you anonymous for telling that we are all one.
Thank you Tara for living in a real world.
Thak you very much Tara thatb you are so much jealous of people who are giving free services by their own will to their Beloved SATGURU. Thank you all of you to hurt many people's feelings by telling them that their faith is cult. You are judging other's faith. First judge yourself and judge your faith.
Whether this school has world wide presence, it does not give advertisement to increase the number of followers. So it is not forcing you to accept its teaching, be a follower or do free Seva. Only those are following who love it. We need quality not quantity. We do not want dogs like you in our dera. You have no authority to xcritisze us, because we are not inviting you. SO in no way dera is playing any role in your life. Take care of your life just as we are concerned about ourselves not about others that what others are doing.

We RSSB followers do not care.. What is your faith?
We do not care.. Whether your faith is cult or not?
we do not care... Are you able to control your mind or not?
we do not care....If you are not, How much harm you are causing with your uncontrolled activity of your mind?
We fdo not care... If you are unable to control your mind, then who is controlling your mind?
Who has given you dogs this right to criticize others faith?
If you do not like discard it, do not follow it.....noone is forcing to accept this intenationally known school? This school has not become internationally known because of you or your advertisements. I am 100% sure you did not come to know about it through advertisement, public gatherings. You know about it because you are taking too much interest in our school without any reason. No one approached you to join our school. If you do not like leave it. Keep away yourself from it! We do not need culprits like you. Our Masters are part of our life, any comment against Him is personal to all RSSB followers because as you said above we are all ONE.......we do not feel seperate from our MASTERs. UNDERSTAND! These comments are very much personal.

First judge yourself what are u doing? You are encroaching our freedom. I think basically you all are the most cult, wrongdoers, devils minded ...Can not stop critisizing others while others do not bother you. you are COMING AS UNINVITED GUEST to our BELOVED school.

Agam, I've got a suggestion for you: if visiting a web site on the Internet and reading what you find there bothers you, don't visit that site and read what's there any more. Unless you like to be bothered, then keep doing what you're doing.

But in either case, don't blame people who are exercising their free speech rights for saying things you disagree with. (That's how we talk here in the United States, because of our First Amendment.) They have a right to say whatever they want to, just as you have a right to ignore them.


You are a real Gurmukh. You have no power to say or wirte all this, it is only Almighty Babaji Don Gurinder Singh Dhillon doing all this.


Please read the book “The Master Answers” It will clear all your doubts. All you need is to have faith.

The laws or rules are not the same for the Initiates of these True Living Masters. They are the most fortunate persons on earth as they have been choosen by the Master, and these masters do not let their disciples to go down to lower species. So if one is initiated he/she should not worry about anything, and enjoy this life and leave the rest to the Master.

Teara you and your friends are making people annoyed by misinterpreating meaning of Maharaji's life. Maharaji nowhere said that if you are intiated you can live sinful life and you will not have to pay. Everyone has to pay their karmas. You are also telling that rssb's faith and their way of living is wrong. On the other hand your thinking is the rightest. individuals have different opinions. This is interference in freedom to make decisions to choose their own options of right and wrong.

People who are donating their hard earned money is spent on 24 hour langar and centers. Babaji has no use of 1000's of centers, He doesn't go there at the same time. It is disciples who need a study center in their city for study, benefits and for thier own personal development. It is of no use to Babaji. this is their demand and they also fulfill their demand with their own money. You are intruding in our lives. If you open million dollar office, do you think it is anyone's business to oppose you. You dumb ??????????think about it.......how would you feel?

You also have 2 set of hands, legs, eyes, nose, mouth and 5-6 feet body like Saints. you also have same power to protect yourself as Saints.

Don't you think its the ultimate insult to the unknown, the nameless one the final reality, The GOD, to call someone else by its name? How can you all say that Guru is GOD? And not feel ashamed about it? Would YOU please go up to your Guru and ask him if he is GOD? If he says no, my respect for him will increase. OK?

So if I have the same power as Saint then Saint and I are equals? If Saint and I are equal and Saint is GOD, then I too am GOD, no? Which means you are GOD as well. WOW! Now that would be something.

"We do not want dogs like you in our dera.
Who has given you dogs this right to criticize others faith? "

quote Agam

Yes, we understand the gurus are against
democracy and are dictators.


The reason that we are asking these questions is because there are people on this blog who were initiated into RSSB as well as others who are debating whether they should go for RSSB or not. Obviously everyone is seeking clarification on many issues one of which is about recent reports about Guru Gurinder changing the direction of the original Radha Saomi system, most importantly that there is no GOD and no Inner planes. The previous Gurus had taught that there is Radhosoami, the supreme Godhead and there are many planes, including the last Sach Khand. Another reason is that there are unanswered questions concerning the tenets and leading principles of RSSB system. The Guru Gurinder Singh Dhillon needs to state his position on the following:

(1) Does he affirm or deny that there is a GOD, a GOD-HEAD?

(2) Does he affirm or deny that there are spheres, planes, dimensions, lokas, spaces, that the disciple traverses on the way to Sach Khand.

(3) Does he affirm or deny that he is GOD, that all RSSB gurus are GOD?

(4) Does he affirm or deny that RSSB gurus have the power to show up at the satsangi's death and escort him or her?

(5)Does he affirm or deny that the maximum time a satsangi has on earth are limited to four lifetimes and no more?

(6) Does he affirm or deny that foreign satsangis, especially certain groups of foreign satsangis get special treatment, like going to special satsangs, parties, get-togethers that Indian satsangis (local or residing in foreign countries but visiting Dera) are excluded from these special events?

(7)Does he affirm or deny that the RSSB has taken charitable donations from questionable sources?

(8) Does he affirm that the RSSB is becoming a voting block for politicians?

Clarifying these points will help in clearing the atmosphere for all concerned.

Don't be disturbed by these Bloggers's comments. That is what their pupose is? "We should not judge and react to any person, according to our teaching. I know it is hard and hurting, when fake, baseless and false comments are made. We are still in learning process, noone is perfect. Everyone has freedom to choose their path of life. They are away from truth. Can you see even they are denying the teaching of old religions? There is no use to be in this discussion. They are standing on different, gross and hard level. They will not understand our point of view.

Hi Janya,

I have one question for the Beas guru.
Why do they continue to print books which
have been debunked over a decade ago ?


Bloggers' main purpose is to hurt sentiments, insult and disturb others. As per Sikh Gurus teaching " Don't react and judge others. Everyone has freedom to choose their own path of life". I know no one is perfect. We are still in learning process.It is hard to digest fake, baseless and false comments from bloggers against someone who have nothing to do with these people. Bloggers are insensitive foolish moles. They are hard hearted and gross.......can go to an extend, it would be hard for us to do what they can do. They are standing on different level. There is no use to be in this discussion. Let God make decison for their this fun!!!!!!!

Ya Mike - I am checking out the link again. Great info. I do not think that Mr.Salig Ram, Param Sant Sat Guru was a sikh, or was he? Because Chita, above quotes from the Sikh Guru's teaching, "Don't react and judge others." But which Sikh Guru is she referring to? The real and last Sikh Guru was Guru Gobind Singh, the last human guru for the Sikhs and the 11th being their holy book the Guru Granth Sahib. And if some guru did say it, its a good thing because instead of judging, Chita, you need to understand what the issue is and how important it is to know the Truth, because the TRUTH will set you free. It doesn't mean you won't care about your SatGurus anymore, but you will begin to understand them better and that is a good thing. If they have nothing to hide, why do you worry?

Mike that video on how Baba Gurinder Singh is changing the teachings for the good is interesting. (link above) This sounds like he is keeping up with the evolution of our human brains - because Science is proving that our brains are changing even in size! That is modern man's are. Good job.

Tara, you're right. The comments are all from the same person, posting under different usernames.

Hi janya and tara,
Janya, Salig Ram was the founder of Radasoami Faith. Ironically, most
Radhasoamis don't even know who their founder was. (They think it was Swami Ji)

Tara, the moles are learning. Before they
would make a factually incorrect statement
as propoganda for their group. But, they
learned the ex sats would use this as ammunition to blow them away.

So now they tend to stay away from bogus facts and express opinions. Even moles evolve.

The Church of the Churchless is really
the ultimate conspiracy theory. A small club
in the middle of vast cyberspace, claiming
they know better then the Great Godmen
on earth.

Can you imagine we mere mortals having the adacity to criticize the Godman ?

What a crazy conspiracy theory we on this club look like to Beas believers.

Poor Brian. Your life purpose is to criticise and only criticise. And through many ids.

All those RS people, please let him do that. This makes him happier in life. Isnt it good to let someone feels happy about something?

He has full right to demonstrate his intellect. After all he is the one out of only few on this world betrayed by RS.

ha ha Poor Soul.

I watched The New Sant Mat Teachings - video- excellent. But it has to be integrated with existing concepts - it cannot be totally and radically different, like the presenter states. Its just another perspective of trying to understand this infinite being of whom we are a part.

Zurvanism (Zurvanite Zoroastrianism), Manichaeism and Mandaeism, are representative of dualistic and monist philosophies

Hinduism is generally monistic and henotheistic

Pantheists believe in one subtance/GOD/Ultimate Reality

But the TAO contains them all (I reckon)

A Gyana Yogi can hold multiple conflicting view without freaking out or fixating on just one. That is the beauty of Gyana/Knowledge.

The ONE is unknown in its nature, we can see and feel its effects, how can one particular orientation do justice to the whole?

The whole is not dead. It has all sorts of things in it - spheres, substance, time, space, dead beings, living beings, material, non material, anti-space, beingness, no beingness - wow! What a trip!

We mustn't get tee -d off at the burrowing ones because they are here, and that in itself is a meaningful indication of their search.

To Sundeep,

The Founder of Radhasoami Faith died less
then 100 years before we were all born
on this club.

Can you tell us why there is no picture
of founder Rai Salig Ram in your satsang ?

Is there something you are hiding from us ?

I wonder why they are called Godmen. Is this supposed to indicate that they are actually God? I'm sure there's a few simple tests that could be conducted to disprove that idea.

There's nothing humble about worshipping a human being and claiming they are God incarnate. It's the opposite to that - megalomanic egotism, or severe mental illness.

Some may be interested in another system of delusion, just as a matter for comparison:


Robert Paul Howard

Rai Saligram is the creator of the Radha Saomi path.

Soami Shiv Dayal ji on his deathbed said that his was the path of Satnaam (True Name) and Anaami (Nameless One) only.

Where did Radha Soami come from? Some say it represents Shiv Dayal and his wife Radha. So the title Radha-swami represents Shiv Dayal and his wife. RSSB thefore being the path of Shiv Dayal and his wife Radha. Shiv Dayal had said that after his death, his wife was to occupy the same status as himself, so this would imply that she was a Guru in her own right. Radha-Soami is not the neme of some deity but an appellation; the husband of Radha, i.e., Shiv Dayal ji.

Got this info from another guru who discredits RSSB gurus, saying that a true living guru is one who does nothing without the ok of his own guru - this Rai Saligram did not do with permission from Shiv Dayal Sahib, although it was reluctantly accepted by Shiv Dayal on his deathbed. This guy also says that the five names of RSSB are not the true names of the correct initiation,i,e,. the pre-emminent initiation of Kabir, that the five names are of the negative power, Kal. That no one in the system has the true name.

The only reason I am posting this information here is for clarifications, not to do away with the Real Path of the Saints. I do not believe that the true path of the Saints is a delusion. If by some far fetched, dubious evidence it is proven to be so, it can be no more a delusion than anything else, including Science.

Radha Soami Five Naams (Panch Naam) in Ghat Ramayan - Tulsi Das ji of Hath Ras
Five Naams in Radha Soami are up to Kaal according to Tulsi Das ji of Hath Ras


Is there a delusional false path of the Saints? Are there false saints? Is there a false science?

Hi Janya,
Whoever gave you the information on
the RS history is a fraud.

What he told you is so naive and nuts
it makes him a space cadet.

Completely bonkers.

Mike, its this guy on that link - apparently he is spreading this info along with videos on Youtube. Its all in Hindi! Its on that link and he speaks from RSSB books. He discusses paragraphs in details. He says the only one had the real name was Sant Kabir, whose dohas are replete in the Guru Granth Sahib as well. He does make some good points, but appears to be extrapolating at times.


His name is Santh Rampal Ji Maharaj. In another video he reads from a book called Jeevan Charitr by Swami Ji Maharaj (Shiv Dayal), published by RadhaSoami Trust, Radhasoami Bagh, Agra.

Apparently, there seems to be some sort of tradition of "absorption" of the dying guru into a particular disciple. This seems to have occurred with a disciple of Shiv Dayal as well; a woman. Detailed description of this women's obsession with SD, and her possession by him after his death. Even Rai Saligram is reported to have received instructions from this Bukkiji + Shiv Dayal combo. Absorption, a case of possession or mental illness?

Made me ill listening to it.


Hi Janya,
Santh Rampal Ji Maharaj, awhile back, was using the copyrighted name of my book.

I had to contact one of his reps to get
him to stop using the name, which he did.

For example, Rahda in Radhasoami, did not come from Swami Ji's wife.

Radha came from Radha Krishna (Salig Ram had been brought up Hindu).

Salig Ram was Gurmukh of Swami Ji and chief
disciple. Even Radha Ji acknowledged Salig
Ram as the Gurmukh, as did the entire Swami
Ji family.

Radha Ji was a sant. But, the master power
only resides in the Gurmukh.

It was Salig Ram who wrote all the Radhasoami Books on the new religion.
Jaimal Singh used to attend his satsangs
to learn the new religion.

Even Sar Bachan was written by Salig Ram.

I knew the great Radhasoami historian
Maheswari personally for years. He wrote the books Santh Rampal reads from in his videos.

I also know the other great living historian
Agam Mathur, Vice Chancellor at Agra Univ.
In fact he initiated me directly and personally into Radhasoami. Agam is the great grandson of Salig Ram and guru at Peepal Mandi.

I see.

It sounds like you've been to India, have you?

Santh Math has an interesting history. Pretty much stayed away from the books and the history all these years. Too messy.

Rampal does make some interesting observations though.

Is there a delusional false path of the Saints? Are there false saints? Is there a false science?

Sure, seems like it. We have been discussing one for quite some time now. Sure there are false Saints, the Catholic Church has a very strict criteria by which a Saint nominee gets beatified. Sure, there is a false Science. False assumptions lead to false science - take for example the recent vaccination breakthroughs for whooping cough. The B. Pertussis vaccine creation process was changed based on false assumptions/bad science years ago, the result of which are now evident in the whooping cough epidemics all around the world.

OK, now tell me why this thread is never ending? Explain what a $4.5 million building is? I need to know this stuff.

The $4.5million office building is for the benefit and comfort of the sangat.

very good business,,,just catch the people ,dont do any thing ,,make people extremeist via religion ,,make thousands of category in one religion,,

pls stop commenting on saints.

What are they going to do with the new Irvine, CA. Center?

Bunch of Knobs

Read this then you will know the true story :

Radha Soami Satsang Beas

haha true story? What a shameful way of promoting your false faith in the name of a travel blog:)

The entire information is wrong. First of all, RSSB is not a NGO.In every satsang, its been announced by Babaji that this is a religious organization not charitable. RSSB is not involved in any charitable work except some work satsangis did during a earthquake in Gujarat. RSSB is only exploiting the laws/tax exemption provided for NGO.

you wrote: "This organization does not involve in any fundraising activities" Plain simple wrong. This org put money boxes everywhere and promote / brainwash people to donate money. If that doesn't work, this org first ask people to surrender their intellect ( in the name of devotion) then ask for minimum 10% of their earnings.

i think this man who made this blog is mentally disturbed....he needs to go to himalaya for the rest. of his life in the search of true light...
rssb teachings r so easy tgat even a 5 year old can understand y cant an old adult lyk u c mon ...man..
instead of looking at otger once look at ur face in the mirror ..
whole life i hv been cleaning the mirror..later i realised dust was on my face not on mirror..be a man bro grow up

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