Looking into the void...and waking up

Recently I got an email from someone who resonated with my take on death, not-existing for eternity, and the virtually certain unfortunate/fortunate fact that when we die, we're gone forever (aside from the atoms that make up our time-limited assemblage into a living entity).

I asked the guy, Yeager St. John, if I could share his thoughts. "Sure," he emailed back. Here they are.

Hey Brian,

I came across your website, "Church of the Churchless" and must say, bravo. I have only read a few of your posts, but have enjoyed every bit. I came across your "death and the primal fear of non-existence" post and what you said really resonates with experiences I have had. I have never seen someone explain exactly how I felt.

It's not so much the act of dying as much as, "what about everything that was before and will come after," thoughts on eternity and infinity, where the universe is, what it all means, etc. I too have had the experience of looking back into the void, as if a curtain was pulled away suddenly. I feel like so many people have not realized this both unfortunate and fortunate truth about ourselves.

Instead so many people seem to concern themselves with material things in order to feel happy and deny the fundamental nature of their existence and being, using other things (monetary goals, religion, material things...) to distract themselves from their own existence and coming to terms with it.

Sometimes I think it is only the smarter people who ever have this epiphany of life, and that we are also the only ones who are able to deal with it and actually "wake up" to ourselves. Just like yourself, I do not seem to have "beat" the feeling of....I don't even know how to describe it. There are no words for the emptiness and fear that comes to you when you realize non-existence, as I'm sure you know.

But, I have found that being "woken up" to this fact of life and death has made me appreciate all that I have, which is to say, all that I have in the here and now. I have begun the process of living and being aware of the current moment and just doing what I can to be happy, which is mostly controlling my outlook on life, as that is the only thing I am completely in control of.

I don't let petty things bother me, because I've seen behind the curtain and don't fall for the social distractions. It's not to say that I live a perfect happy life and wake up every day happy, smiling, etc.

I still have off days, I still dislike certain things, I still get angry, sad, and a whole range of emotions. But I remember to ground myself. To remain in this moment, the only moment I have - and enjoy every bit of the eternal here and now. I take bigger risks, my levels of anxiety and fear in every-day life have reduced, and continue to do so, because I realize it's all a big game and really there is nothing to lose.

Listening to Alan Watts, Carl Sagan and other philosophers and mystics has really helped as well. It seems that we are all in this together, and even if we don't really understand, it's ok. Whatever this is will keep on going. I might not understand my purpose and existence, but like chaos theory proves, every little thing seems to matter and influence everything. 

I hope I've made myself somewhat clear, hahah. I tend to get jumbled when I think on this matter; my brain races and all the thoughts I have inside come gushing out. 

Either way, I just wanted to let you know there are are other deep thinkers out there, curious and aware about ourselves. Keep living and enjoying the here and now, and may your life be thick with experience.

Cheers,

Yeager
Yeager St. John

Since Yeager shared a link to his web site, I browsed around a bit. Checking out his videos, my eye was caught by the title "Dreams," and an image that said when did we forget our dreams? Great question.

For an answer, see below. I liked the video, in no small part because Fuck. That. Shit. is part of the answer.  

Dreams from Yeager St John on Vimeo.

Made in Adobe After Effects, the text is from an amazing comic - xkcd.com. The title of this particular comic is 'Dreams' and the number is 137 if you're up to read it, it's worth it.
 
"Does the routine destroy our creativity, or do we lose our creativity and fall into the routine?"

Comments

[Willie R]

The funny thing about the "primal fear" of non-existence is that it doesn't exist.

Both existence AND non-existence are transient states. Their perfect equivalence is pretty much obvious. Beyond both transient states is Reality itself, which is the foundation of both states and about which nothing can be said.

I can honestly say that I have no fear of death - only of dying. When I lay my head down on the pillow each night, I always invite the Grim Reaper to do what he does best. And he invariably does - he just ignores me.

[cc]

The experience of existing can only be known by contrast with its opposite, non-existence, so consciousness involves unconsciousness; being on is inseparable from being off. Only to the degree that I, the living am nothing, am I something. To be anything I must be constantly reminded that I am potentially nothing.

[George]

I find this fear of non-existence very strange. We do not fear sleep, nor being put under anascetic, the lights simply go out and why should death be any different. What is fearful about death is the possible pain that might be involved depending on the process of dying, and the notion of leaving your loved ones, but death itself is surely not a problem, since there is no consciousness to fear the void. IMO it is only when we are awake do we contemplate things like the void, in death we dont contemplate or fear anything.

[Brian Hines]

George, you're right: dying is what we fear, not death. But while we're alive, the anticipation of not existing can be scary. This is natural. If animals don't have a survival instinct, they won't survive very long, and we humans are animals.

Evolved ones, so not only do most of us fear genuine threats, but also imagined ones, both physical and psychological. We also can envision a future where death threatens our existence, which can be almost as scary as an actual immediate threat.

So just as we can get chills up the spine by imagining a killer is following us as we walk along a dark street, so can we become afraid by imagining ourselves dying and never existing again.

Going to sleep isn't scary, because every time we've done this, we've woken up again. Of course, this isn't guaranteed.

I agree with you, though, that there's something strange about fearing a state where we don't exist. I don't think it's unnatural to do this, just strange -- like so much else in life.

[George]

Yes Brian, I suppose there is a fear of dying, which could be attributed to either the evolutionary survival instinct or the pain associated with dying. However, the idea of vast fathomless cold bleak void, seems more an imprinted cultural belief. I find it interesting, but I think death if anything is a release from the actual tormented process of dying.

What is interesting for me about nature is that on average we tend to die when we are older, when we have experienced the world and perhaps even grown tired of it to an extent. What i think might be a very traumatic experience is to die when one is young and feel that one has missed out on so much of what life has to offer.

If the atheist worlview is correct, and you subscribe to it, then there is absolutely nothing to fear, since its lights out, end of. If however, you believe there is an afterlife or some consciousness or reincarnation, then there are are sorts of 'fear' hooks which religions and various spiritial traditions have played on people's psychosis and fears since time immemorial.

I understood the whole point of your Sant Mat escapade was Shabd Yoga, which is teaching one how to die in effect. I dont quite see tho how knowing how to die in such supposedly altered states, teaches one about life tho.

[tAo]

God -or- Not God:

http://innersites.com/visible/f2f-visible.111211.mp3

(audio file)

[tucson]

Being "dead" forever after we die could be no worse than being "unborn" forever before we were born. Was that so bad? And the eternity before birth was just as "long" as the eternity after death.

[Mike]

I agree with Tuscon (it's a variation on a famous Mark Twain quote) but for me, the thought of non-existence brings up questions of meaning and the point of it all. If I'm not going to remember any of this, who I am, what I experienced, if I'm not even going to know that I'm dead....then what's the point of any of it?

I find myself fighting nihilistic thoughts often. Anyone have advice on this? Would love to hear your thoughts.

[Brian Hines]

Mike, maybe nihilistic thoughts don't have to be fought. Maybe those thoughts bring us closer to the truth about reality and are to be embraced.

I talked about this at the end of a recent post:
http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2011/12/god-didnt-design-the-world-neither-do-humans.html

Here's a direct link to my "Joy of Nihilism" post:
http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2006/09/the_joy_of_nihi.html

[tAo]

Mike wrote:
"If I'm not going to remember any of this, who I am, what I experienced, if I'm not even going to know that I'm dead....then what's the point of any of it?"

Good question. In fact, that is the question that humans have been asking since time immemorial.

What IS the point of it all?

Well, there quite possibly may be no point. No point at all. So there is no answer to the question of... Why do we (why does anything) come into this apparent (conscious) existence, only to vanish again after some relative period of so-called "time"??

In the natural world, the world (universe) of nature (that we are part of), everything proceeds in cycles. Like the seasons of the year and the orbits of the planets and moons, the migration of birds, or the stars in the galaxy, or the birth, growth, decay and death of all organisms - plants, microbes, animals and humans. Event the Earth. Everything moves in cycles - from birth to growth to old age to death... and so it goes on and on, seemingly for countless millenia.

Whats the point? I think "the point" all depends on who or what is doing the asking. In this case its humans. The universe isn't asking, nor are animals, nor the mountains or the sea.

So maybe, its pointless to ask.