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September 02, 2011

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A 'believer' is going to take the stance that 'I believe in THE God'.

He will claim that 'his' God is the only one. So he will not say that he rejects
other gods - he will say there are none to reject.

This is how 'belief' works. You become 100% convinced that what YOU believe to be TRUE,
IS in fact THE TRUTH; it is not a belief.

so we have three people. Call them C for christian, S for sikh and R for radha soami and M for muslim.

Oh and by the way - did you know there are THREE types of people in the world: those that can count and those who cannot.

so these four people have their own personal 'stance' - which is as stated below.

C: There is ONE God and Jesus is his ONLY son. The others are all DELUDED. Only I KNOW the TRUTH

S: There is only ONE God - his name is Wahe-Guru and he also has lots of names; but he is the chap that Guru nanak spoke about.

M: There is ONE God and his name is ALLAH. He wants me to pray FIVE times a day. I am lucky that I KNOW the TRUTH.

R: There is ONE REAL GOD. He is called SAT PURUSH and resides in SACH KHAND. The way to GET THERE is to MEDITATE REALLY HARD. I am so LUCKY because His personal representative on EARTH has given me a TICKET. All these other idiots are SO CONFUSED and LOST!

So there you have it.

Four deluded little people - each one fully believing and convinced that HIS PERSONAL DELUSION is THE TRUTH.

Each one believes there IS ONLY ONE GOD - HIS!

But he doesn't say 'I believe' because that would give the game away and he might just wake up to reality. He says 'I KNOW' - and as long as he claims to KNOW - he will remain deluded.

It is only when you are HONEST enough to see the reality: that I have no idea: I am just holding onto a BELIEF.

That is when you see the possibility that you have NO IDEA what the truth is. All you have is YOUR VERSION.

A believer HAS TO believe his version and REJECT all others. Why? because they are mutually exclusive.

can you imagine person Z who believes in ALL the above?

Z: I believe there is ONE God - he goes by MANY names: On MONDAY he's called SAT PURUSH; TUESDAY ALLAH; WED: Jevohah
THURS: WAheguru; FRI: just GOD; SATURDAY: well it doesn't matter what you call him because he's out shopping;
and on SUNDAY: He has NO NAME (NAMELESS). Jesus was his ONLY son. Mohammed was his PROPHET. Nanak was his 'other son'.
and Baba Gurinder is his CURRENT REP on planet EARTH. On mondays I meditate all day. Tuesday I pray 5 times. Wed: I go to
church. Thursday I recite JAPJI and four other scriptures. Fridays I do some 'new age' practise like affirmations that I AM GOD.
Saturday - I go shopping and forget all about God - because - well I have a life too you know - it's not all about God!
And on SUNDAY: I just sit there with a BLANK LOOK on my face because I realize I have no idea what I am doing.

Now Z would be an interesting character to meet, and if you ever meet him - let me know because I want to meet him too.

ALL BELIEVERS live under the delusion that they are PRIVILIGED to KNOW the TRUTH. This is what keeps them stuck where they are.

Well...true believers might as well remain "stuck" where they are, since there is nowhere to go in the first place. Believing and not believing are simply thermodynamic happenstance.
The atheist and the true believer are both scared shitless when the doctor tells them of the incurable disease process occurring in their body. And they are both the same kind of "dead" when the life process terminates.

Just another cheerful reminder from Blogger Brian's resident nihilist.

"...the difference between an atheist who rejects all Gods but one, and an atheist who rejects all Gods including that one is very small."

Much as I'd like to agree with that statement, it misses the fact that atheists have their own gods as well - it's just that they're secular in nature and largely unacknowledged. As time goes by, I personally see less and less of a real distinction between what people call "secular" and "sectarian."

OH, and a comment for osho - when you say "ALL BELIEVERS live under the delusion that they are PRIVILIGED to KNOW the TRUTH", is this not something that you "believe" to be "truth", as well? Just askin'....


With dualistic consciousness, the psychological "truth" that I exist apart from everything else makes it imperative that I believe things in order to function. But the molecular truth that I exist only in my mind tempers this madness.

osho you raised very simple natural and normal doubt,
will get back to you soon,
with step by step realistic reply to your post.
right now sorry do not have much time,and replying you will take time.

cc,

If I'm following your talk of function, imperatives and molecules, one might think you perceive yourself to be some kind of a machine - a Touring Test program, perhaps?

That wouldn't seem to leave much room for meaningful discussion about such quaint notions as "mind" and "madness".

"That wouldn't seem to leave much room for meaningful discussion about such quaint notions as "mind" and "madness"."

You wouldn't think so, but I'm a very sophisticated machine.

But a machine nonetheless, and not aught else?

And they became like ghosts clinging to the grass.

Brian from Colorado, give us an example of a secular "God." I'm not sure what you mean. Yes, everyone has beliefs, many of which lack demonstrable evidence to support them.

But God is a special sort of supernatural belief. Billions of people subscribe to various religious ideologies, whereas every secular "God" I can think of has a very different character.

Willie R, I like your "resident nihilism." Every group needs one of you. There's so many cheerful optimists in the world. It's refreshing to hear from someone with a "we're all screwed!" mentality. In college I used to enjoy reading French existentialists. Your comments are in the "nausea" and "no exit" frame of mind.

Churchless,

Think of it this way. It's all about how we construct meaning, how we position ourselves between the indivisible poles of objectivity and subjectivity. It's about every individuals personal quest for self-affirmation.

In our times, fundamentalist doctrine is represented first and foremost by the theory of evolution, as set forth in the iconic text of (the prophet) Darwin. I'd also argue that the (empirically discredited) Newtonian world view fit's the bill just as well. For sure, there are other secular deities that people use to cobble together a sense of their fractured identities these days - and many of these are angry gods, indeed. Social Justice (accompanied by its demon, Racism), Environmentalism (it's shadow best personified by the wrathful and apocalyptic god of Global Warming) - you get the drift. Here, all of the hallmarks of religion can be found, perhaps most easily recognized by the intolerant impulse for ideological purity.

Consider that if the monotheistic God is nothing but a personal/social construct, as Nietzsche has informed us, then so too, are these new idols and demons of the present age.

Not that you or your nihilist readers agree with any of this, of course. But I'm ok with that.

Cheers old boy!

Brian from Colorado, Wow! So you don't believe in evolution or global warming... you should become a Republican presidential candidate. You'd do great among fundamentalist Christian primary voters.

Well, as I like to say, "reality is a terrible thing to waste." Turning a blind eye to how the world is -- that strikes me as sad.

Likely we only have this one human life to live. Why not live it clear-eyed, doing our best to understand and enjoy the world as it is, not as how we fantasize it could be?

"ALL BELIEVERS live under the delusion that they are PRIVILIGED to KNOW the TRUTH. This is what keeps them stuck where they are.'
quote OSHO

Elite, priviliged, superior, high born,
arrogant, class distinction.

Religion is VANITY at the expense of others.


Osho you wrote:
""IS in fact THE TRUTH; it is not a belief.""

so we have three people. Call them C for christian, S for sikh and R for radha soami and M for muslim.


""C: There is ONE God and Jesus is his ONLY son. The others are all DELUDED. Only I KNOW the TRUTH""

Yes you are right for christians there is only one god Jesus,well but thinking that others all deluded this is the problem of the follower,the misunderstanding of the seeker but its no Jesus fault,
what he said was truth,but who understands it the way it is written,
Like you Osho everyone scratch their own brains and create several meanings and point of views.
Thinking "only i know the truth is their ignorance,Yes we can think in way that jesus knows the truth.


""S: There is only ONE God - his name is Wahe-Guru and he also has lots of names; but he is the chap that Guru nanak spoke about.""

Yes what guru nanak dev told,is the same jesus told,
but the follower understanding the real meaning hidden in the granth,
created their own theory,
just like you osho,
what are you doing right now,creating your own theory,and confusing a large number of other seekers,its because you have not able to understand,you instead of getting to know more facts,you are confusing many others.
Like wise,people misunderstood guru nanak devs word,
he always spoke about the "One" the "ONE" whom they have experienced.

Like very clearly explained by KABIR DAS JI and SOAMI JI maharaj about their inner journey.

""M: There is ONE God and his name is ALLAH. He wants me to pray FIVE times a day. I am lucky that I KNOW the TRUTH.""

Again what is written in quran is almost sounds same like as written in Bible,
almost same characters with different name.
ADAM and EVE and SATAN in bible.
Adaam and Hawa and shaitan in quran.


Now thinking that they are lucky,is their ignorance.Quran cannot be blamed for Your ignorance.


""R: There is ONE REAL GOD. He is called SAT PURUSH and resides in SACH KHAND. The way to GET THERE is to MEDITATE REALLY HARD. I am so LUCKY because His personal representative on EARTH has given me a TICKET. All these other idiots are SO CONFUSED and LOST!""


What RS said is the same written in all holy books,God is one and thats very true,Satpursh is just another name,sachkand is just another name,
And yes without meditation you cant reach there,as written in any holy book,
but people do not understand,create their own thoeries according to their own understandings,thus all the inner work has been diverted to outer work.
Like going to holy places,ringing bell,doing pujas and all stuff.
Now if Rs followers thinks the same they are lucky its bad,
every one is lucky,but that one should realise that he is lucky,and yes like in Jesus times,jesus was the representative,in guru nanak dev time nanak dev was the representative,in kabir das ji time he was the representative,and so and on and on,in this time GSD is the representative,bu thinking that other are idiots,is actually not following the path at all,

spiritual path is full of compassion(which rarely seen these days),
is full of love(rarely seen these days)
but if you cannot see compassion and love in other seekers,it doesnt states that the path is wrong.

No path on earth which leads to god is wrong,
but the disciples who follow the path are the one who are actual wrong,
and give wrong messages to the fellow seekers.
Osho you are just among one of the them,
you have shown more interest and concentration on fellow seekers,
but forget to focus the attention for your own inner self,
thats why very naturally you lost the way.

you always finds a way to pin point the guru,
you always says GSD Is GIHF and then keep on taunting for his human mannerism,
now my dear,
one side you say he is God in HUMAN FORM,
and other side you expect something different from him,something unusual,
my innocent bloggers,
when you yourself mentioned he is GIHF,
then ofcourse he has to project the characteristic of a Human only,he can't act like any illusionary characters like,spider man or super man.


Every holy path reach to one point that there is a supreme being.
but because saints have come in many religions,people instead of taking the original teachings of saints,they adopted the religion of the saints,
thinking that following religions is the message of the saint.
Which is actually not,
Saints have one aim,self realisation-god relisation.

And like here,all are confused and left the path,
there are many many many many disciples,who have progressed their inner journey,
who have seen , felt and experienced.

But you guys are for proofs,
My dear does any one has the proof where we were before we born-but still yet we got birth and we are living.

Does anyone one knows where we go after death,but still every one dies.

Without having the proof from where we came from and from without having the proof where we will go,yet the system works and its happening.

Like wise in spirituality,attaining realization is purely self realization,
alone individual can experience,you cannot explain and express it in words.
Like we have no explanation of where we came from and where we will go,inspite of the fact we came,we are here and one day we will leave,
like wise we cannot explain or express inner journey.
but then it exist.

Churchless, I said none of the things that you that just attributed to me.

Interesting that you'd immediately follow that up with in an irrelevant expression of prejudice against the Evil Others, though.

Brian, you called evolution a "fundamentalist doctrine." You said that global warming has the "hallmark of religion." It sure sounds like you consider that science is faith-based rather than evidence-based.

Regardless, if you don't understand the difference between religious and scientific ways of knowing, you really should study science and the scientific method more closely.

Thanks for the sage advice about what I really should do to become more properly enlightened, Churchless! Alas, after numerous exchanges, I see that you still have no idea where I'm coming from.

In the meantime, feel free to gratify yourself with this fine gem of evolutist wisdom from someone who calls herself - with not the slightest trace of irony, I'm sure - "The Scientific Fundamentalist".

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201003/why-liberals-are-more-intelligent-conservatives

P.S., I greatly admire the fact that you are not deleting (so far) my post submittals. It's a sign of integrity, IMHO.

Brian, I enjoy our comment dialogues. Yes, we have different viewpoints. That's fine. Open discussion is how we learn, grow, gain in our understanding.

On that point at least, I am happy to know that we are sympatico.

Perhaps I can try to be more effective in better elucidating my views when another opportunity presents itself.

Ciao for now, though!

"Do you believe in God? If so, you're an atheist. Because you believe in a God, a singular God, a particular God."

No, that means you're a believer. An atheist doesn't believe in any gods at all, by definition.

It is unusual the gods of the inner regions
are not described well. The Sikhs thought
Sat Nam was God, only later for Radhasoami
to be God.

What higher God will be next ?

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