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May 21, 2011

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOFNYy24I4Y

The Secret of Eden, the foundation of most
yoga and religions.

I no longer believe chastity is the key,
but rather Something Else.

Chastity and transformation is not that which opens the Gate.

Nor, will enlightenment, the realization
of no self.

The Gate can only be opened here and now
in whatever condition one is in.

We are hypnotised to believe it takes time.

The only time ........ is now.

@Just me
the quote from spiritual gems:
"Man is an inexhaustible store of powers. The whole creation is within him along with the Creator. The drop is in the ocean and the ocean is in the drop. Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in all creation." Spiritual Gems, page 140.

You can find many such references in a lot of sant mat books. Duality teachings still reference the state of oneness. What they add is: You have to put in effort to 'get there'. They say the soul is of the same ESSENCE as God. But it has SEPARATED. So the disciples has to get initiated and meditate in order to take his soul out of his body and merge it with Sat Purush.
Christianity says man has FALLEN from grace.
Sant mat says the soul has separated from Sat Purush and is in the grip of Kal.
In both cases - Jesus/Guru is needed to redeem the soul.
Duality is not about any realization - it is about the soul actually leaving the body and merging.
Ironically, when I was a follower - that was a great attraction of the sant mat path, because it made it real - I would actually experience leaving the body and traversing astral and causal regions with the radiant form of my master accompanying me. This is a very romantic idea for the disciple.
Nobody achieves it (except as a delusion) but everyone HOPES that one day they will get there - it's just a matter of doing more meditation and having more love for the master.
The disciple is convinced - so he continues to meditate and do seva etc - until the day he dies because he believes the master will come at his death and take care of his soul. HE trusts the master will do what is needed - if that's a re-birth - that's fine too. However he rests in the belief that the master will come and will be in charge of his journey to Sach Khand.

In duality teachings - it is going to happen in the future - there is a place / level of consciousness / region to attain. Whatever you call it - it does not matter. The point is - it is a future goal - somewhere to get to. So you sacrifice the present to get to a fictional future 'heaven' called Sach Khand.

In non-duality there is no distance and no time between YOU and IT (the illusory goal - God, enlightenment, nirvana). It is not an attainment - no effort is required to 'get there' because 'there' is not different from 'here'.

Sant Mat, on the other hand, clearly says - "You have to meditate hard - focus - put in tremendous effort" I have heard GSD saying to questioners, "Nothing is easy in life"
Charan Singh used to say "It is a constant struggle"

Hi Osho, (agree with you)

The masters should say they are all failures.

They are supposed to be all powerful and
cannot even lift the disciple.

If the master was competent the disciple would need to do nothing.

The master would do everything.

Does God need help from the efforts
of the disciple ?

Would we not have to assume the master
(God)is incompetent if he needs help ?

If God needs help ... is He God ?

Osho,

You say: "What they add is: You have to put in effort to 'get there'."

I don't know that there is an easier way. New age beliefs talk about just being in the moment and being love and light etc and make it all seem so easy, but its not. In a sense to 'get there', if one is talking about raising one's consciousness, does require some kind of effort and as you say "Charan Singh used to say "It is a constant struggle". Yes. It is a constant struggle with the mind.

About effort. I have heard the words often repeated in Sant Mat about "effortless effort" when doing meditation. This is not easy to do. In my case its an effort to even sit down to do the meditation! But then I believe that if my aim is spiritual progress I do need to direct my efforts to that end.

Your quote: "They say the soul is of the same ESSENCE as God. But it has SEPARATED."

In Sawan Singh's quote that I posted, he clearly says that the creation is in the Creator and the Creator in all creation. I think it is the mind which creates the feeling of separation and blocks us from the realisation of being at one with creation.

Your quote: "In non-duality there is no distance and no time between YOU and IT (the illusory goal - God, enlightenment, nirvana). It is not an attainment - no effort is required to 'get there' because 'there' is not different from 'here'."

This is easy to understand intellectually Osho. Its also easy to become tired of putting in effort to control the mind, just to give in and eat meat, drink alcohol, take drugs, indulge in lust, stop meditating and give up the struggle with the mind. Does that bring happiness? Not really because if it did there wouldn't be this blog for people to vent about Sant Mat.

Mike,

The only reason why disciples follow sant mat is because they believe the master is all powerful and will look after their soul.

No disciple loves the master, even if he claims to. Why? because he has an ulterior motive. He wants the help of the master. His motive is selfish - he believes the master will help him after death - so while living he tries to be worthy.

Hi OSHO,
I have spent these last years studying the
Sumerians, Kabbalists, Palo Mayombe, Santeria,
Zoharists, etc. Before that, I had investigated every obscure area of yoga
and occultism. Been initiaed by scores
of masters. 7 Radhasoami and Yogananda.

Liked pranahuti the best. I.E. Ram Chandra.
Top down energy. None of these type masters exist now. Ramana Maharshi was one.

I have had every experience in the book.

One way or another they open the collective
unconsciousness and typically there are energies produced.

I consider kundalini based yogas such as RS
very bad and absolutely unncessary. Literally
the Demonic energies, which deceive.

Inside our genetics we carry the past of all
our ancestors.

Seems you would call me a non dualist.
I would agree.

It's now or never.

"At the count of ten I will snap my fingers
and you will awake."
Sigmund Freud

just me,

"In a sense to 'get there', if one is talking about raising one's consciousness, does require some kind of effort and as you say "Charan Singh used to say "It is a constant struggle"."

Have you also heard a statement from RSSB Gurus that almost contradicts the above statement? Something like: "the disciple can only make the effort, and that's his/her duty; if, when and how the effort is rewarded is still in the hands of the Guru."

..... So, the master/guru/God is all capable but still wants to make the disciple put in some effort of his/her own as well. That is ok because, after all, if we go by the principles of the world we live in, one realizes the value of something only if some sort of price has been paid for that. But, why is it not defined as to how much effort would be sufficient?

IMO, statements like: "It is a constant struggle" do not help much. What's your take on that?

"In my case its an effort to even sit down to do the meditation! But then I believe that if my aim is spiritual progress I do need to direct my efforts to that end."

..... 1. For how many years have you been putting an effort do to the meditation?

2. How far have you reached so far?

and finally:

3. Do you really "believe" in "directing your efforts towards spiritual progress"? If yes, what's your definition of "to believe"? If you really "believe" in Charan Singh's teachings, don't you think that you are wasting invaluable time by keep returning to this blog? Remember, Charan Singh used to say , "We need to remain miles away from "manmukhs" (those who listen to and are, therefore, under the control of their minds). I hope you must have realized by now that this blog is FULL of people that come under that category.

"Its also easy to become tired of putting in effort to control the mind, just to give in and eat meat, drink alcohol, take drugs, indulge in lust, stop meditating and give up the struggle with the mind."

How can you say that everyone who doesn't believe in Sant Mat or who stopped believing in Sant Mat (in your words, those who "stopped meditating and gave up the struggle with the mind") will necessarily do things like "eat meat, drink alcohol, take drugs, indulge in lust"? There could be many other much more creative activities for people - who stopped meditating and so on - to get indulged in and make use of the time they would otherwise have spent in meditating for hours, etc. For example: reading and writing this blog:) thereby improving their reading and writing skills.

VVIP (very very important person?)

"Have you also heard a statement from RSSB Gurus that almost contradicts the above statement? Something like: "the disciple can only make the effort, and that's his/her duty; if, when and how the effort is rewarded is still in the hands of the Guru."

No I definitely have not heard that. Do you have any proof, or is this your own perception of what was said?

As to your other questions - I have put many years into living the life of a satsangi to the best of my ability. I have no illusions as to how much advancement I have made and as far as I am concerned I am happy to continue into future lives with the same determination to continue evolving on this path. If we have been caught in this matrix since time began (Kal means Time) its ludicrous to imagine we can escape in one little tiny life span.

You say: "We need to remain miles away from "manmukhs" (those who listen to and are, therefore, under the control of their minds). I hope you must have realized by now that this blog is FULL of people that come under that category."

I have been following this blog for a long time and my life is spent entirely in communication with manmukhs, as you call them. Whats the big deal. There are different ways of following Sant Mat. You don't have to have a fanatical, religious mindset or go the other extreme of being totally anti Sant Mat.

I said: "Its also easy to become tired of putting in effort to control the mind, just to give in and eat meat, drink alcohol, take drugs, indulge in lust, stop meditating and give up the struggle with the mind."

You say: How can you say that everyone who doesn't believe in Sant Mat or who stopped believing in Sant Mat....

Where in the above quote did I say that "EVERYONE who doesn't believe .... ? Once again, you think in black and white opposites. There are always extremes but there is also the moderate, middle of the road attitude.

Good post VVIP,

Maybe the people who are "THERE"
have decided this world is real
and want to spend their time helping
future generations.

Maybe the worst fate of man is to get old
and look back and have to say to oneself,
"I wish I could have contributed to humanity
when I had the chance. I wasted my life."

Mike Williams,

You seem like a very wise and informed gentleman, I am no longer an RS as you may know, I have not started to eat meat or drink alcohol, I never will, however, i am very unsure about the consumption of egg. What do you think about eating eggs? You seem like a man who has tremendous regard for humanity and animals, I respect that very much, I want to contribute to humanity.
I wouldn't want to commit an act that would hurt animals, so I just need you to elucidate this egg issue for me.

Thanks

Hi Gaz,
I see you are better (read between the lines). You will be OK now. It was your destiny to go through this period. The dark night of the soul has ended for you.


I eat lots of cheese. Eggs are non fertile
now days and I like raw eggs in my beer.

I eat no meat of any kind and do not even kill ants, in fact I feed them candy and the birds bread.

I am even careful not to step on ants.

Because if God does not care for ants,
how can He care about humans ?

Gurinder is a grinder and his disciples, defenders, and detractors are his sausages. Shame on all of you.


No chicken needs to be harmed by using its eggs. Chickens lay eggs in response to seasonal light whether a rooster is around to fertilize them or not. If the eggs are not fertile, the hens sit on them anyway, so it is a help to the hens to remove and use the eggs rather than have the eggs accumulate, rot and go to waste and also make the hens look dumb for sitting on them for no reason at all. Help the hens to save face (beak) and use their unfertilized eggs! They don't mind at all if you do this and they don't complain.

An egg is not a chicken unless it has been fertilized by a rooster. Then it is a developing chicken. At least the embryo is. Actually the egg is never a chicken under any circumstances although the fertilized embryo needs the yolk as a nutrient source, which also is the reason why eggs are so nutritious for people and other animals to eat.

Most commercial eggs are produced by hens not kept with roosters. There are exceptions to this, so if avoiding eating fertilized eggs is important to you, then you will have to find out if the producer keeps the chickens (hens) with roosters. Hens than run around free range on a farm with roosters present are going to be laying some fertilized eggs.

Eggs are good to eat (unless a person is allergic to them) and are very nutritious. There is no need to fear the cholesterol in the yolks. This fear was fostered by antiquated science from the 50's and 60's (long since debunked) and unnecessarily resulted in many egg replacement products, egg white omelets, eggless egg nog, and the like.

Purist vegans avoid even unfertilized eggs because their ideology prohibits them from using any animal products at all. They don't like animals to be exploited for any purpose.

You can go that route if you like.

Eggs hinder meditations

Sant Mat Versions :

It's both true

Solopism and dualism

That is because creation is
done very professionally and delightful

Complaints ?
Go to the doer : YOU

Me Personally :
"It takes two to dance the Tango" and I love it

for doubts : google
hinessight+777+vivaldi

777

"Have you also heard a statement from RSSB Gurus that almost contradicts the above statement? Something like: "the disciple can only make the effort, and that's his/her duty; if, when and how the effort is rewarded is still in the hands of the Guru."

….These are the words of Hazur Maharaj Charan Singh which can be helpful.

Our duty is to be sincere in our efforts to meditate. When He wants to give His grace to us, He will definitely do so…..A.46 The Master Answers.

We are always concerned with our own Master. He is the Lord to us. We have to look just to our own Master and nobody else. We are not concerned how many Masters have been in this world before, or how many Masters are present, or how many Masters will come after us. We are only concerned with our Master and He is everything to us….A.255 The Master Answers.

…IMO these great Masters always talk in parables, and to understand these parables you need a Living Master, one can never understand their teachings with logic, you have to be a Real Gurmukh to understand their teachings, because what they say they don´t mean and what they mean they never say

" one can never understand their teachings with logic "
quote Juan

Beautifully spoken.

"Eggs hinder meditations"

--Here is a test. Go find one nice fresh chicken egg since those are the ones most commonly used. Cook it to your taste, plain without added spices, etc. Eat it on an empty stomach. Wait about one hour for the egg to digest. Then meditate. See for if there are any negative effects on meditation.

Please avoid thinking, "Oh, I have eaten an egg and I have done a bad thing and my meditation is being disrupted and I have accumulated bad karma that will result in rebirth. Oh, oh, oh!". None of that. Just meditate.

See if your meditation is disturbed.

The results of this experiment are due here within two days or you will be suspended and will receive an "F" on the assignment.

Did you know Muhhamad in the Koran
authorises men may screw little boys
and animals ?

I am literally talking sheep here people.
Muslim men may also screw young boys.
(Married women get hung for the same offense)

Did you know Jaimal Singh lived with 3
little tiny girls down the street from
Salig Ram's (founder of RS) ashram ?

Did you know Salig Ram threw
Jaimal's ass out of the satsang for this ? Did you know
Salig Ram's successor, Misra, also threw
Jaimal's ass out of satsang for the exact
same thing ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POhryDr0Q4g

I meant to say Muhhamad said in the Koran
men could rape little girls and boys.
Girls, as soon as they could stand up.

Don't believe it ?

Watch Ann Barnhardt burn the Koran
literally and explain in detail what
Muslim men may do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htshvId51UE

Every general knows not to give the boys
eggs during the week ( only on Friday ) and that eggs make somewhat aggressive and more than somewhat horny !

Works fine for contemplation on the first 2 chakras

777

So, 777, you did my test and your result from eating an egg was that you became "somewhat aggressive and more than somewhat horny"?

I wonder if you gave an aggressive and horny person some milk if he would become passive and uninterested in sex?

Tucson,
You don't understand women. She took
your test and is too bashful to adnit
she has fallen in love with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dvBjKr2LcY

For you people tuning in late,
Tucson and 777 are having a love fest.

We can all learn a lesson from them,
when in conflict .... make love.

Don't be caught in the Crossfire
of your uncontrollable passions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F73EcycGCO8

I'm going to have to give more females the "egg test" and prepare for the results by eating more of them myself!

Easy Rider was cool back in the day. Good nostalgia although I think the writers had it a bit wrong. The guys should have been in a VW bus and not on choppers.

I'm not sure what this has to do with Sant Mat going from duality to oneness.

" In the highest stages of development man does not develop a keen sense of omniscience, but a radical and irrevocable understanding of unknowingness. In sum, one realizes that he or she is nothing but a mere bubble in a sea of existence which is infinite in all directions. As such, the bubble simply surrenders its entire being to that Power which is, in truth, living it. "

http://webspace.webring.com/people/de/eckcult/faqirchand/faqir1.html

Could this be Something Else ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jid8JEhd98c

I pretty much did not understand the purpose of the video...I could not go beyond 4 min of the first one and wondered what is the meaning of this.

You are obviously someone who does not understand the path, that being true have no right to hold a study on this...

Teachings of the gurus never change...and they never will, as what Swamiji taught, and sawan singhji till today is the truth, and truth does not change...what changes is the way you teach and what works for the audience...sad to see someone stand there and make this comparison when you are someone who have no knowledge on the subject.

It was very kiddish of you to say that earlier teachings talked about existence of sach khand and today guru does not speak of it. OMG - it may be in such a different context. Earlier gurus never said that god is not here or he is ONLY in sach khand, and today they dont say that he is only here and nothing like sach khand....

A request - dont speak and try tarnish something if you dont understand it. This is spiritual science, those who do not go within wont get it - if you are someone who is initiated...go in...and you will pull off your videos - I Promise !


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