A poetic debate about hell

Some influential Christians are starting to say "Perhaps there is no hell." Others hold firm to a belief in heaven's antithesis.

Recently I got together with a friend, Patricia Herron. She's both philosophically and artistically minded. During our chat she gave me a copy of a poem, introduced with some prose, that she wrote.

It's a dialogue between a believer and nonbeliever in hell. The nonbeliever gets to say the most, probably because Patricia, like me, doesn't put much stock in all of this hell talk.

Have a read. And then, add a comment if you like. As Patricia says in her introduction, open communication is what the world needs more of.

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Prose and poem by Patricia Herron, Salem, Oregon

God is an instrument of madness. Also, the idea of God is a symbol of inner sanctity and true being. There's a confusion between these two extremes, ideas swinging back and forth through the centuries. And it is still so.

There are no judges -- so no rules -- in this scenario. Thus, it will be an open debate. However, following the debate there will be a conclusion whereby Jürgen Habermas' thinking concerning communication will be addressed.

Distorted communication prevents freedom, undistorted communication moves us toward emancipation or the unforced force of a better argument. In this manner we will be able to use our common sense and critical thinking to decide the unforced force of a better argument.

According to Jacob Needleman's What is God?, "A quality of attention was passing between [two people] that is becoming more and more rare in our common world. And it is this 'something' that desperately needs to pass between people. It is the mutual flow of this special quality of attention between human beings that all people, whether they know it or not, are starved for."

This is not the case with X and Y.

Y (believer in hell)

There is a hell. God said this is so.
And God is all knowledge,
All good, all powerful, all just
And all loving
This is so as the Bible is the word of God
Hell is located as God sees fit
And spirits without bodies
Are also taken to task -- bar none
Can enter without faith in God

X (nonbeliever)

If what you say is true
Then these words must belong to God
Spare the rod and spoil the child,
What brutality, blindness, egotism it claims
How can this be so?
Toxic punishment seeding toxic ideas unto our world
Punishment; ages upon ages of pure pain and suffering
Presuming to be realistic only because
We fight against an equally religious arrogance
How can this be so?
Toxic punishment, people feel powerful, toxic though it may be.
Forgoes a sense of wonder and awe,
Seeding in our culture, when will it stop?
Is this not so?
An invitation to a hanging, bring a picnic basket
Hold your hands still little boy,
Tap-rap-atap-rap, a-rap-atap
Smothers real life of the God within,
The God of the unknown
Hold your self still young man, it will soon be over
The fruit of the hanging tree
Dangle, dangle feet off the ground
Throwing stones at a woman's head
Her body buried seeding, seeding our world
Toxic punishment has run amuck
Ages upon ages with God at the stern
A God with human attributes
Take a good look, this image of God
Is an instrument of madness
A God who can locate hell where he sees fit
Humans clap and praise such a God
Made in their own image
A God so powerful that a hell for punishment
Goes beyond what tortures mankind have
For ages and ages made do.

Comments

[Nietzsche]

Also I don't even think it is necessary to punish people in jail while they are alive. I think that if someone kills someone else than the killer is the one that will live with it the rest of his live being hunted and punished every day. We don't need a hell or a prison for that, these images are symbolic for what guild does. These hells and prisons don't solve anything also the public judgement does not add anything positive. Leave the killer alone and he will learn fastest is my opinion. It is easier to live being a victim that being a criminal. But then again we need a way to protect us and a prison might be just that to protect society against people that might likely do something again because they show no remorse. In that light a hell might have the same function? But in most cases i don't think we should be afraid of a criminal because it is more likely that a person without a criminal record might harm us. To be clear I'm not talking from experience except that I lived very close with someone that likely had these experiences but never talked about it. I have seen what guild does.

My own opinion is that hell is something we might chose. I once had a dream where I saw a woman climbing over a fence and disappearing into the wide nothingness. Her name was noted when she disappeared but it was likely that no one would see her again. In that dream she chose hell, all we could do was make a note and hope she will ever return.

[Nietzsche]

I would like to add that the mentioned dream is in fact about a woman committing suicide for the reason that she wants to end all existence. Existence can be so overwhelming that one wants to end it all.
Others chose to experience punishment because they perceive themselves as bad. They have chosen to do bad things during their existanceand now after death they can not do good things anymore so they perceive themselves as eternal bad, so eternal punishment is the logical consequence.

What they both did realize however was that either there is not a god to rescue them or god was at the other side of the bars to punish them. They both where right in realizing that they had there own responsibility and that in a way they where alone in the huge choices that they could make.

I think you have to maintain your identity above anything else to remain in these hell like states. If you chose to realize that your essence is there before your existence than you realize your essence is not bad nor overwhelmed because your essence is not touched by existence. Essence goes before existence.
So if somehow you still exist after death, you can chose the eternal punishment, the emptiness or you can realize that you are much closer to your essence sometimes called the sparkle of the light that is within you. Realizing this essence is there is crucial even during our earthly existence. It frees you more than god does!
Tell me if this doesn't feel truthful?
Also giving up your free will to follow someone else does not really free you from your responsibility and is in a way choosing the vast emptiness of non-existance.
Just my thoughts, hope they resonate in someone at the same frequency :) After all I posted about this dream than I should at least try to explain this archetypal experience...