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July 31, 2010

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Brian, you're leaving us hangin'!

How did your faith of so many years disappoint you?

I love Gods Whisper. Great book, thank you for writing it!

"I can confidently say that my devotion to this spiritual/mystical path was considerably more serious and deep than that of the vast majority of other disciples." What pompous bullshit! You admitted in a previous post that you broke the celibacy vow forbidding premarital sex with your fiancee because you thought it was ridiculous; did you ever try to become celibate when not trying to get your wife pregnant?

Hey, DJ, what I said wasn't "pompous bullshit." I guess you haven't talked honestly with many satsangis.

What percentage would you say meditate several hours a day, "religiously," for thirty-five years? What percentage stick to the vegetarian diet and abstaining from alcohol and drugs for the same time period? What percentage put in years and years of seva (literally), happily and enthusiastically?

Sure, I had one alcoholic drink in thirty five years. And after eighteen years of marriage to my first wife, I had sex with my next wife-to-be before we got married. No big deal. Meditation and diet are much more important supposedly, karma-wise, than having sex with someone you love absent a marriage certificate.

So I stand by my statement. Absolutely. Firmly. Unapologetically. Like Fox News, I am "fair, balanced, and unafraid." (Wow, I can't believe I compared myself to Fox News.)

damn ts like a student tellin vry1 after d results tat" oh i worked day n nite ,nvr went for any parties all d yr long..........did ma home work religiously.....listened to ma teachers and still flunked in all ma exams!"
whoz gna believe this lie?

Tara, your comment reminded me of recurring conversations I had with my heathen (meaning, non-satsangi) wife after we got married in 1990 -- when I was still very much devoted to the RSSB teachings and guru.

Laurel, a psychotherapist, would say, "I'd love to be able to see how the guru acts in his everyday life, when he's with his wife and kids, dealing with everyday problems." Her point was that it's easy to appear "perfect" when you're sitting on a dais, surrounded by ardent disciples.

The trick is handling what life brings us when we're not playing a role -- that of guru, or any other cultural mask we put on. Like you, I've heard stories that indicate the guru is decidedly imperfect when it comes to everyday life. This isn't a criticism of him, because we're all imperfect, because we're human.

Brian i hope you read this so i can explain one very simple thing to you. God created us from him. Our souls are potentially God since they are apart of him. We think we are of this world or of this body. But we are not. So Maharaji just like Jesus and us are one and the same with God. The only problem is that our mind does not want us to believe that. Our intellect does not comprehend that. All past mystics are from the Lord and return to him. Thank you.

I repeat this story which I told here maybe a couple of years ago.

I was told this by a friend of someone who witnessed it. Charan Singh was visiting a satsangi's house while on tour in the USA. When Charan walked by a sliding glass door the family dog charged at him barking from the other side of the sliding door. Charan was startled, recoiled and ducked away from the dog which sort of bounced off the sliding door that separated them.

No big deal, a natural human reaction. but when God in Human Form reacts this way it makes you wonder. Doesn't it? I mean, this is God we're talking about here, the Lord of the Cosmos, Saviour of millions, and not just any old everyday shlub.

No doubt satsangis would say that it was a lesson in humility, or the dog was cleansed of millions of lifetimes of bad karma by the blessing of master's forgiveness for this act of agression on him, or perhaps the master set it up as a test of his follower's faith. Anyway, I'm sure they thought of something. Once he's got 'em brainwashed, the coast is clear. Probably only a few of those present thought, "Gee, that dog just scared the crap out of a perfect living master. What's up with that?"

By the way, I have known a few "prototypical" perfect satsangis, as described in a comment above, who follow (followed) the vows strictly for decades. I was married to one for 15 years. None of them appeared to have advanced to saintly status, or at least did not exhibit exhalted inner status according to the conventional concept of how such an advanced soul would behave.

The one I was married to used to occasionally launch fruit, ceramic bowls, cups and even a potted plant at me when my behavior did not conform to her concept of the ideal husband. Fortunately, due to a siddhi (supernatural power) developed in former lifetimes of shao-lin martial arts practice, none of these objects ever struck me, such was the power of my cat-like avoidance techniques and also evidenced by my restraint in avoiding strangling her in response, although I admit having my hands on her banshee shrieking throat one time, but somehow by the grace of something, I didn't squeeze.

Moral of the story: PMS is a bitch.

One more thing i strongly wish to add. You tell me someone who can give a satsang for 45 min without stuttering or stopping longer than two seconds. Without having anything written and infront of a hundreds of thousands of people (at the Dera). It is natural to question and doubt. And even the most devoted at some points will have doubt until they see the Master inside.

Brian,

In as much as I can understand your need to justify yourself......I feel you should not.

Why do you need to prove what you feel and write(strongly) about and which you know is right needs a justification?

The truth as life needs no explanation. It is...thats all...and all the RSSB clowns can never get it!


David

translation:

jagit = a blind stuttering slave of an imaginary master.


Jagjit,

I agree with tAo that you sound pretty lame. Are you saying that the ability to speak extemporaneously for 45 minutes in front of hundreds of thousands of people is a sign of a godman?

Good grief. There are many, many politicians, pitchmen, con artists, teachers, ministers, priests, and evangelists who can do that. It is a talent and nothing more. Actually, you have to be especially careful around those with a "silver tongue". They can hypnotize you with their words and make you believe the incredible and buy what you don't need.

Actually I am going to have to agree with Jajjit on this one. I up to this date have not seen a politician, priest, or any other person on this earth speak for that long without anything written. If you have seen previous masters satsang than you will know. They do not stop or stutter. Their expression is so calm and when they are around you can tell that this is no ordinary man. That this man does know what he is talking about. Please name people you know who can do what they do.

Sevakh,
you may not have seen anyone giving a satsang or lecture or speech for that long, but that does not mean it does not happen. so both you and jagit are wrong from the get-go.

fyi, years ago, i used to give advaita-vedanta/self-knowledge satsang lectures. i typically did this for well over two hours at a stretch. it was a bi-weekly occurance for me, and i performed it quite easily. i used no notes nor any books nor any pre-written speeches, or any breaks. it was all done totally spontaneously. and i have also seen other people do the same thing in other subject matter as well. so its not any big deal, and it certainly doesn't prove that anyone is divinie or a god in human form (gihf).

people like you and jagit need to wake up and get rational. you are literally stuck in a pseudo-spiritual fantasy-land.

all humans on this earth are quite ordinary. meaning, there are no 'gods' here. of course, there are people who have exceptional abilites and/or intelligence, but they are all still ordinary mortal human beings.

this belief in supposed saviors, messiahs, and/or human divinities is nothing but childish fantasy and superstition. it is unintelligent, and it is blatantly irrational.


Sevakh,

Hannah Storm. TV announcer, sports commentator, talk show host, comes to mind. I have yet to see hear stammer, stall or miss a beat in 20 years of broadcasting.

I have heard numerous TV evangelists speak extemporaneously without pause or stutter for 15 minutes or so (except Jimmy Swaggert who bawled like a baby about his whoring ways). I assume these evangelists are able to complete their 30 minute to one hour time slot in that manner but I never can take listening to them for that long.

Jack Lalane, fitness guru, used to lead millions on TV exercise shows. He was yapping the whole time without missing a beat AND exercising at the same time. I bow at his 98 year old (or so) feet. Could Gurinder do that? maybe.

Geraldo Rivera, somewhat liberal leaning newsdude, is able to blab fluently without notes until the cows come home.

Laura Ingrahm, conservative talk show host is a machine of right wing diatribe. Other TV and radio hosts come to mind but I won't get into it.

An astrologer, "natural" healer, teacher I once knew was a supremely articulate human and could wax eloquently and calmly for a long time on many subjects from art to history to sports. Can Gurinder do that?... maybe.

I never heard Swami Chidvilasananda, successor to Swami Muhktananda, stammer or pause in her talks. I heard about ten of them, some of which lasted for as long as an hour and a half. Maybe she is a special GIHF, but I doubt she is anything other than what you, me or anyone else is, including the dog under my feet. Did you know that Muhktananda had a special passageway that led to the female devotees dormitory? Chidvilasananda forced her brother from the guru's chair in a blatant power grab, but she was/is a calm, charismatic, charming, smooth, fluent extemporaneous speaker and as a bonus you get to look at pretty flowers set up all around her while she speaks. Maybe you should check her out. Maybe she comes from a region even higher than Gurinder since she can talk calmly, sweetly and extemporaneously longer than he does? Hmmmm?

A former satsang convener I knew could sit crosslegged in his chair and yap in radhaswamish for an hour without a single error. But maybe he was/is an unofficial GIHF. Doubt it. His ex-wife certainly didn't think so.

I heard Charan Singh speak many times in India both formally at satsangs and informally at the guesthouse. He spoke steadily, calmly and well with very few stammers or pauses, but I did hear him belch once. And occasionally, he did stammer. We used to joke about the way he did it, but he was overall a very good speaker. Did that prove he was God? I don't think so. At least not any more than you or I are, or again, the dog still lying at my feet.

But you're right. None of these were "ordinary men" in their ability to talk. Gurinder is one of them. Big F-ing deal. You're banking on him being able to save your soul on the basis of that? Don't be a shmuck, with all due respect.

@ TARA
For YOUR Kind info svthrt ,by baba jiz grace i was very gud at academics n co-curriculars both!
n nw by baba jiz grace v been able to crack aieee n pmts wid gud ranks....n now since i want to serve at beas hospital i v tkn up mbbs course...n m sure u knw dat pmts in india r really tuf n thrz cut-throat competition...n tat i v crackd both i think ts gud enuf an ans 2 ur dumb que!lolz

@ TARA
n u guys r d 1 who r makin dumb-ass anology vry nw n then !
ma time at skul was awesome thanx to baba ji's blessings...n m sure ts goin to b all d vry same for ma mbbs n future studies...baba ji alwayz tks care f both wrdly n spiritual needs f his disciples! that m sayin cz i v alwayz been gtn more than i hve wrkd 4 only cz f baba jiz grace

You are all very knowledgable and rational people. However faith is one thing that sometimes is not rational. my point is that one philosphy that i go by is that there has always been someone "sent from God, son of God, GIHF, or etc." For example like Jesus, Buddha, Muhommad, John the Baptist (before Jesus), the Sikh Gurus, and countless many others who were from God. Having those sort of beliefs may not be considered intellectual but we all have to belief in something. Thank you.

I'm glad so many commenters cited the ability of various people, other than the RSSB guru, to speak flowingly and eloquently for 45 minutes or more. That makes my own addition to the list look a bit less self-centered, because I'd like to add me.

I gave 45 minute satsangs at least twice a month for quite a few years. Usually I would prepare only minimally. As is probably obvious from my rather verbose writing style, I also am fully capable of blabbing on verbally for a long time, and even making sense (more or less).

So the ability to speak spontaneously and clearly isn't a sign of divinity. Unless you want to call me divine, a compliment I'm totally ready to accept.

@ tara
Girl !dont tell me that teenagers(and even elders) in your country write full sentences even when they are not taking some exam.Which era are you guys living in?( see i am very used to this sms language because its in use everywhere ,on internet,text messages & even letters and stuff.you know, it takes an effort to take up the long one if you are used to some shortcut.thats the reason why i end up writing sms language here.now that i know that most of the people here are not used to this language i will try n write full sentences)btw how come you guys prefer it this way? i think sms language saves time!

Tara dear!
m pleased that once in a while you like to keep your mouth shut ,for all the good reasons.lolz i dont want to indulge in any sort of war of words with any one of you who criticize rssb or baba ji!
but you see i cant keep my cool for long yet!(though i am working on that coz baba ji alwayz tells us to take both criticism and praise with same attitute and refrain from swearing n loosing temper...m trying to follow that but for now i am not very good at it) .......AND ACTUALLY, EVEN I DUNNO KNOW WHY I RETURN HERE DAY AFTER DAY DESPITE KNOWING THAT ITS ALMOST USELESS TRYING TO EXPLAIN THINGS TO YOU GUYS..MAYBE BECAUSE I CANT STAND SOMEONE CRITICIZING MA MASTER! THATS IT

Fuuny that, human nature - how we are so calculating? So 35 human years of devotion, YOU considered that you 'walked the walk and talked the talk' by your measurements? Someting tells me you don't get it do yer? Look I'm not against you, I have no reason to be. Man is so limited, he can only see from the end of his nose, He knows nothing of tmr or the past yet he spouts like he created the universe with the limited intelligence and faculties that he has. I sigh - just live and let live. This site is therapy for you but deep down you are a 'lost' and 'scattered'.

Hope not Hate,

you apparently don't read too well.

i never said that i spent 35 years in "devotion". i said nothing about "devotion". i also said nothing on this thread about walking the walk.

on another thread i did indicate that i had indeed "walked the walk". and that was, quite literally, true. but none of that was on or pertaoins to this thread. so you are cross-mixing and confusing content.

furthermore, my "measurement" of my walk/path/journey/experience is far superior to your measurement or judgement, since your measurement of me is non-existant owing to the simple fact that you were not there with me at any time during the 44 years of my spiritual sadhana and experience. thus, you have only suceeded in making yourself look like a presumptious fool.

you said: "Someting tells me you don't get it do yer?'

-- well exactly what is it that i "don't get"? and how could you possibly know what i "get" or "don't get"? i'd say you have no possible way of determining what anyone "gets".

you said: "I'm not against you, I have no reason to be."

-- then what's your point? if you are not against me (as you say), then why do you jump to negative conclusions of doubt and sarcasm? i don't think you know anything remotely enough about me to cast assumptions of doubt on me... especially about the facts and history of my own personal life, about which you basically know nothing.

you said: "Man is so limited, he can only see from the end of his nose, He knows nothing of tmr or the past yet he spouts like he created the universe with the limited intelligence and faculties that he has."

-- well, you can really only speak for yourself as far as "limited intelligence and faculties" goes. also, i did not "spout" as if i had "created the universe". i simply shared a minute bit of personal info relative to the commenter Sevakh's claim that speaking for a mere 45 minutes was somehow an indicator of the RS guru's divinity... which is just ridiculous.

you said: "This site is therapy for you but deep down you are a 'lost' and 'scattered'."

-- fyi, i don't post comments here for therapy. i have no need for therapy. i post here to lend another voice in support of rationality, of which you seem to be bereft. and if you are going to make personally derogatory assertions such as "lost and scattered", then you need to provide some facts and evidence for that. but you have not and you cannot, because there is none... and because i happen to be the antithesis of being someone who is "lost and scattered". your comment, on the other hand, appears to indeed be somewhat "lost and scattered". your vibe is much more "Hate", than it is "Hope".

so if you have something reasonable and intelligent to contribute here, then please do so... othwerwiswe go do your snipeing and trolling and casting of aspersions somewhere else.


surbi,

my position is: take your unintelligible texting crap somehere else. we don't want to bother with it here. this is not cell-phone territory. this is a blogsite. if you can't speak proper english here, then don't bother commenting. its ok to be a believer or a satsangi, but trolls for rssb are not welcome.

CAN ANY BABA IN THIS WORLD TELL THE EXACT AMOUNT OF DOLLERS/POUNDS/EUROS/RUPEE IN THE POCKET OF ANY PERSON . NO NEVER .THEN HOW CAN A BABA (JI) CAN RESPONSIBLE FOR SO CALLED KARMAS AND TAKE HIS FOLLOWERS TO GOD .
IN INDIA THERE ARE 37 READY MADE GODS . THEY STILL SAY "GOD IS ONE" .EVERY SACT CALL/TREAT THEIR HEAD AS "god"..

Rare in the world is the gnostic, who is a man of action.Rare in the world is a socholar who is a man of deliberation.

We all are blind , love to be considered intelligent , all who got some thing ( god realization ) do not love to speak , we see outside , love outside, and discuss out side. Every body will die one day , some trying to solve the mystery , some trying discussing , some achieving the results. It is ladder of evolution and where we are , we ( all living being ) think we are at top of the ladder. So what we are capable we get.

This is to BRIAN, the blogger...

Sir, 35 years, or 35 days! It's not at all the question of the amount of Time someone has devoted to the Sant Mat or followed its practices.

You gave your 35 years of life away practising meditation, and all the other stuff. But the thing is, you ask too much! Why too much if you ask? Because neither you nor I know the amount of Karmas you've been into. Do you?

My DAD and MOM are blindly into RSSB, and so is my GRANDPA, but I don't digest it anyway. Grandpa devotes more than 4 hrs of his time in meditation, and Mom and Dad do the same on an average for 2.30hrs, as is said in the teachings. He asks the Lord for my bright Future, and a happy life to our family. But, that is too much to ask! It is not at all supposed to be a give-and-take. You are promised something, and you'll get it for sure, but only if you deserve it! I am not sure if someone does or does not, but HE certainly is!

For you, nothing happened even after 35 years of practising RSSB teachings, but who knew what was going to happen in your 36th year of following! I haven't attended many Satsangs myself, nor have I been practising meditation, but I have heard HIM speak things that are bound to be certain.

Ok, leave alone RSSB teachings, but still, do you agree satisfying yourself with the fact that you have performed deeds considered as wrong, and you're Okay with it? Yes, you're okay with it, because you're lenient to yourself. A student is sometimes lenient to himself when he/she adheres to Cheating. Make your stand now. Of course no human being is perfect, but he's not even near to perfection when he does not try to correct himself, or gives up doing so.

You may be the student here, who gave up(on RSSB) because the Teacher(Guru) was harsh on him, and gave a lot of homework(meditation for lifetime and not just 35 years) to do. What you didn't realise that this may be because of the misbehavings(Karmas) you did in your earlier classes(lives)!!

Kamal - I just read your comment above. The RSSB method simply does not work - meaning: it does not produce results.

How many satsangis do you know who will openly and plainly say they have got to Sach Khand?

There are none because they all say "IT IS A CONSTANT STRUGGLE"

which is a belief.

Is you've struggled for 35 years - chances are - its a waste of time.

INSANITY is doing the same thing again and again - but expecting DIFFERENT results.

So the RSSB follower is really INSANE

Hah, man asking for statistics on a spiritual path! That's what we get to see today.

It's a struggle if you expect things to happen. It's not, if you don't expect. You never really understood the teachings in the first place. Try recalling the moment when you had heard HIM speaking: "Don't expect, have faith".

May be you slept.

Brian,

I am afraid that I read this post only today.

" So there I was, standing next to some bushes, alternately glancing at the street and sidewalk, then back to the guru's bedroom window. I looked at my watch, saw it was 3:00 am, and thought "It doesn't get any better than this." "

When I was reading this, I got somewhat excited and thought that you would next write something like .... the lights in Guru's bedroom got switched on at sharp 3:00 am proving to me that "He" woke up for meditation, etc.

I am curious to know if you did have any such thoughts at that time???

Hi Brian I also just got this one now. Im slowly going thro all the years. Truly one of the Best. I wish the above could be more current. You and Turan are expressing what Id like to , Only much better. Most kind reguards. Keep up the good work. June.

I actually meant Tuscan, spelt his name wrong. I burst out laughing. could not stop. My ex husband (A Most Devoted Satangi) had to duck from me numerous times.

Dear Brian,
You think to much about what you are doing. You need to again brush up all your concepts.You have a very high barrier of ego to cross.Power comes in need not desire.For all these years you had been doing your meditation either for inner experiences or because of your emotions. you might have been practising meditation nowadays but it lacks faith.
Things arent so easy. Thats why the guru speaks about 4 births.
well,I suggest you read The Book Of Mirdad By Mikhail Naimy. Its a good book that would definately help you. Also it is related to Radha Soami Satsang Beas. They have its copyrights in hindi.
thanks,

Pankaj, I've read The Book of Mirdad. Several times. I guess, in your opinion, it didn't help me. But I enjoyed reading it those several times.

What makes you think that you know why I meditated for 35 years, or how I meditated for that length of time? How do you know that I didn't have faith?

You pretend to know things that you don't really know. I'd like to suggest that you focus on things that you really can know, rather than on things that you can't.

Or at least admit that what you believe you know is just that -- your personal belief.

Well I spoke of what seemed to me. Well you do lack faith now, dont you ?

Well let me ask a question, if you had an inner experience years ago or you had manage to develope your inner faculties to the extend that you could go to the other levels of the multiverse and then somebody who is just like what you are right now was there in your place running this blog, what would you had told him ? Had you broken rules and told the guy your secret ? answer is no. thats why you cant find anyone else telling you what they see inside.

here is something interesting :
I was reading about m theory. And I was thinking about the true theory of formation of the universe. And then I found out that Satguru had alreadly disclose the truth ! M Theory strongly appears to be just what we have of today's bible infront of the true one in comparision to what said by J.P. Johnson in path of the masters !

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