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July 29, 2010


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My babagi is not a man hi is a god dont tray this

@funny Indian names.

How do you know your businessman self-proclaimed teacher is a God?

Where is the vital evidence?

Please provide us with videos, holographic representations, aura-measurements, astral recordings or at least with memory/sensorimotor implants (Total Recall anyone?) that will prove his divine nature! It would be an entertaining material. We are looking desperately for a legal pedigree of divinity(tm).

Jesus is godman, Orpheus is godman, Rajinder is godman, Gurinder is godman, Fuckinder is godman, Babinder is godman, Rainer Werner Fassbinder is godman, so everyone is a godman. What a mess!!!!!

Here you go. Two questions with the same answer:
1) Who wants to be a godman?
2) Who wants to be a millionaire?

Answer: Everyone!


"When everyone gets super, nobody is super"

-Syndrome, quote from "The Incredibles" cartoon movie of 2004

quote Pythagoras: Here you go. Two questions with the same answer:
1) Who wants to be a godman?
2) Who wants to be a millionaire?

Moon: Exclude me on both.

1) Who wants to be a godman?
2) Who wants to be a millionaire?

Answer: Everyone!except Don Gurinder Singh and few more.

"No more moralising on the internet"

best to give satsang attend satsang read the words of the saints and attend to meditation,hang around the saints and become one with them....we are all masters in our own right."
"It takes less than half a second" to go inside to Sach Khand

Write what you experience inside ,your difficulties of going in, send it to Baba Ji RSSB 143204 Punjab INDIA.He is the sewadar in charge of taking souls across. Describing himself as a "sewadar" when asked.

All initiates from USA of Huzur Maharaj Charan Singh are invited to dera October 2012-April 2013, Baba Ji has so much sewa for you all and so much free accomodation, so much sports fields, so much satsang, free meals and a world class library, 3 weeks of free spiritual discourses x 2 a day, and an opportunity to do meditation every day. This will be my 14th trip to dera and I want to step up my satsang attendance at more cities, at more countries.I am retired now so all I have is RSSB dera and the 100 + centres, and any little sewa there is for an old man I will gratefully do.Radha Soami Din Dayal sounds like a cool place to be.

The guru makes all of Religare's major investment decisions.

I think Tara n tao has gone crazy..... they r here for just wasting time of others.. ..

@Tara is only a lady, which has lost everything, she don't hv knowledge abt wht rssb is.. she has been thrown out of satsang ghar... so she is so much of angry nd spreading rumours here...

they can try if they want but no one can touch Baba ji, as christ has said, they know not what they do!

shame on these people


no one can harm to our baba ji

no one can harm to our baba ji--he is almighty and is always protected by bodyguards.

baba ji is God no one can harm

I'm not looking at this incident from a political perspective. You write and I quote " Of course, a real GIHF would not need protecting, strictly speaking ! " Well said and I'm strictly speaking so we're on the same page.

RS Sant Mat books clearly state that the Guru is the embodiment of the doctrine and is a ' living example ' for his disciples. I've read a ton of RSSB literature and there is no chapter or inferences regarding ' Imperfect Masters ' so kindly put forth the book's title and page number where Sawan and Faqir made the claims you speak of. I'm not considering isolated quotes or statements that are made out of context and no ' interpretations ' please.

If you haven't yet realised, I'm not into making Sant Mat cocktails, but it seems like you have many concoctions. No thanks, lets just live in disagreement

ajay, if the Guru is god and doesn't need protecting, why does he have guards with guns protecting him? Think about it.

"no one can harm to our baba ji--he is almighty and is always protected by bodyguards."
quote Juan

I want to tell to you people that if you guyz dont want to appreciate RS policies and the guru. It is just a request to stop saying anything abt him.
its your wish to follow anyone..let others do what they wish.. why are you being so rude to rssb?
live and let live..

Karan, if you don't appreciate this blog, I request you to stop leaving comments and saying things about it. If you wish to not read what people say here, just follow the web sites that you want to read. Let others do what they wish. Why are you being so rude to this blog? Live and let live.

Does what I said make sense to you? It should. You used almost exactly the same words.

Brian....you the man!!

All hail Brian, thank you Brian for sending my email add to The9thGate.

"why are you being so rude to rssb?"

Cuz he's a jerk...silly girl...or boy...can't tell nowadays with these self-given names.

Go in peace...with the emphasis on "go".


I have been reading this blog, and especially your posts, for about three years now. However, I decided to start taking part in the discussions only recently.

I can relate with you on many counts - conditioned to believe in RSSB teachings from early childhood by virtue of having been born in a family of strong believers, developed great love and affection for Charan, got initiated by Gurinder, finally lost complete faith in RSSB but still having respect for Charan (but not any for Gurinder) etc. etc.

Since I didn't belong to a family "high up in RSSB hierarchy", I was one among the millions and so didn't have the opportunity to see the matters as closely as you did. As some have noted on this blog earlier also, you seem to have a great deal of inside information. I would like to ask you a couple of questions, but I will provide some more background information about myself first.

I started losing faith in RSSB immediately after Charan's death as I stopped experiencing any such feeling of "grace" or "warmth" while looking at Gurinder or listening to his satsangs as I used to have with Charan. I expressed my feelings honestly to one of my uncles but was ridiculed by way of arguments such as "How can you claim great love and affection for Charan when you don't feel like respecting his will wherein he himself chose Gurinder to be his successor? That would actually amount to you not respecting/loving Charan as well." I was completely confused, to say the least, but decided to remain with the path for the time being. Although the seeds of suspicion had been sown in my mind, I did decide to get initiated by Gurinder in 1997. I never made a serious attempt to meditate but regularly attended satsangs by Gurinder as also by other preachers.

I came to know of the Religare connection only through this blog but much before that, I had my own doubts about Gurinder himself and his family living a lavish life and preaching things like money is the root cause of many problems and if you wish bad for someone, give him lots of money etc. I also saw a report on an Indian news channel about Nimmi (Charan's daughter) talking (almost madly) to news reporters about a property dispute with her brother-in-law. Recently, I read a book titled "Radhasoami Reality" which specifically talks about the history of business and government connections of the organisation (RSSB).

As I said earlier, I never truly believed Gurinder to be GIHF, but after reading some of the eye-opening posts on this blog, I finally lost complete faith in RSSB about two years ago. On a lighter note, Gurinder often uses the word "unless" in a wrong way by saying something like ".... unless we don't do this ...." while he intends to say "...unless we do this ...". I know this a common mistake, but you can't expect "God" to make such mistakes!

The one question that has puzzled me a lot is whether Charan chose Gurinder (who is the son of Charan's sister) to be his successor after consulting his own two sons and whether they declined to be the Guru because they didn't want to live the life of a "saint"? Also, whether the two sons have a secret understanding/arrangement with Gurinder about some sort of "profit sharing" in the whole "business" (because their father played a big role in establishing it!)?

I have a few more doubts about which, I believe, you may have some information, but I will ask those in a later post.

I will really appreciate any insights that you (Tara) or anyone reading this may be able to provide.


Stop listening to these "preachers" you speak of. I assume these are people giving satsang at the group meetings.

You say "preaching things like money is the root cause of many problems and if you wish bad for someone, give him lots of money etc." Never, ever heard this from anyone! Stop confusing the path of Sant Mat with the followers, who are mostly conditioned by their culture and previous religions they belonged to and still have a very religious attitude which is NOT Sant Mat! Its the followers with their religious attitudes talking nonsense about GIHF etc and yes, they very easily can put people off the path.

If you read the comments on this blog the complaints are usually about the way the satsangis behave.

This is simply a very personal path, following the four principles and becoming connected to who YOU really are. It takes a long time and a lot of patience and perseverance. The Master is an example and a guide and what you see in him is a reflection of yourself.

Stop blaming others for your own failings people!

Just me,

You've hit the nail on the head.

We live in a society where we are quick to point the finger at other people.
Yes I do acknowledge the fact that RS does have faults, the teachings do consist of mere dogma. However its the closest thing to God realization, its light years ahead of Christianity,Sikhism,Hinduism and so forth.

Didn't Faqir Chand 'whoesever form you remember God in, he'll help you in that very form'.

With regards to money being the root cause, yes it is, however don't we need money for survival? IMO ,there's no harm in having vast money as long as you have earned it rightfully.

Baba Ji has implied on numerous occasions that he is a teacher, don't look at Baba Ji as someone who will do everything for you. Baba won't take your karmas on, that's all in your hands.

We are the doers, Baba is the guide, just like Just Me said, the followers do get things wrong. Charan even stated that he was aware of his followers changing the teachings under his nose, Christ experienced the same.

Be honest,ethical and do your meditation, it takes time, but it will pay dividends.
I know 3/4 of the session is spent fighting with the mind, you may recite 'om' for 30secs prior to meditation to calm the mind down, this will increase the efficiency.
These methods have actual evidence, the ball is in your court.

just me and Gilly,

Gilly says, "Yes I do acknowledge the fact that RS does have faults, the teachings do consist of mere dogma. However its the closest thing to God realization, its light years ahead of Christianity,Sikhism,Hinduism and so forth."

I appreciate that you, at least, acknowledge that "RS does have faults, the teachings do consist of mere dogma." However, I am sure that majority of RS followers wouldn't agree with you. Also, who are you to decide that "[RS] is the closest thing to God realization, [and] its light years ahead of Christianity,Sikhism,Hinduism and so forth." It could, at best, be just your opinion, and I must acknowledge that my own opinion was not very different from that of yours just a couple of years ago.

In response to my comment, "I had my own doubts about Gurinder himself and his family living a lavish life and preaching things like money is the root cause of many problems and if you wish bad for someone, give him lots of money etc.", just me says, "Never, ever heard this from anyone! Stop confusing the path of Sant Mat with the followers ....."

When I made the comment quoted above, I was actually referring to Gurinder himself and not just any other preacher. I heard Gurinder himself say this (in Punjabi - something like, "agar kisse da satya nash karna hove taan oonu bahot sara paisa de deo" - which literally translates in English to what I said above) at a satsang in Delhi in India a few years ago. I hope many satsangis would recall that. So, it's Gurinder and not me who should "stop confusing the path of Sant Mat" - to use your own words. I fully agree with you that we do need money for survival and there's no harm in having enough money (not so sure about "vast money") as long as you have earned it rightfully. However, Gurinder must come clean and be transparent about "rightfulness" of the way he earned his "vast money" after becoming the head at RSSB. It is especially important in view of your own comment, "The Master is an example.......", and so must behave ethically (see below for more on ethics).

Thanks to Gilly for suggesting, "Be honest,ethical and do your meditation". However, in my opinion, just living an ethical life is enough. For me, being honest is part of being ethical. In fact, being ethical means being honest, responsible, fair and transparent - and I know that because I have read a lot about ethics :).

Finally, to Gilly's comment, "Charan even stated that he was aware of his followers changing the teachings under his nose ......". I know you won't agree but still there's no harm in asking - don't you think Gurinder is also doing just that? Look at the "The new Sant Mat Teachings", see below, for example:


Avi, you say Gurinder himself said "things like money is the root cause of many problems and if you wish bad for someone, give him lots of money". This is the problem with listening to hearsay. Don't think I would ever want to wish bad for someone so this doesn't make sense to me.

As to the youtube and Osho's theories about the new revised teachings of Sant Mat. People don't like change do they.

Surely its not surprising that the way the teachings are conveyed nowadays is going to be very different since the time of the original Master Swami Ji. The integral message is still the same.

just me, are you serious? The "integral message" of Sant Mat/RSSB is extremely different given the reality of Sant Mat 2.0 (or 3.0), which you don't seem to be denying. Just read my posts on this subject:



Here's an excerpt about the newest version of Gurinder Singh's teachings. This is written by someone who heard him speak:

I was at the national satsang [gathering of disciples] in the UK last weekend. Gurinder has changed from the old days. His teachings are going through a noticeable change - and so is he himself.

What I noticed is that
(1) He talks a lot about The ONE
(2) He laughs and jokes a lot
(3) He tells people not to be so serious
(4) He tells them that the master will not come at the time of death - that they have mis-understood the teachings. Just as it does not take four lifetimes.
(5) He says there are no regions - that Sach Khand does not exist - neither does Sat Purush. He says they are levels of consciousness

He says the purpose is to REALIZE that there is only the ONE - and that we are caught in maya - duality.

Having the darshan of the physical master is not even mentioned anymore. He says seva will not help you make any progress - it simply makes you humble if done correctly. There is no spiritual merit.

You will NOT be able to succeed through meditation. Meditation is just to make you give up. You can never get there through your efforts.

Now these kind of teachings have never been given before in rssb.

That's true. The RSSB teachings used to be presented as a "science of the soul" that is changeless, being the foundation of every true religion. Now, the key tenets of Sant Mat aren't being taught anymore by the current guru.

How can you say the "integral message" is the same?


Do you know the person who made these claims? How do you know its not an anti RS aka Sikh in disguise?
Its funny Brian because I was at that satsang in Haynes Park back in 2011, I never heard such statements though i did hear the master say notions such as 20 minutes of darshan is better than 100 years of meditation are metaphors.
The previous Guru's have always stated that seva makes you humble, yes being humble can help in meditation, so it can aid the meditation.

It's ok to critique RS but the criticism needs to be fair, you make some good points Brian, but some of your posts are not fair.

quote Brian
(5) He says there are no regions - that Sach Khand does not exist - neither does Sat Purush. He says they are levels of consciousness

I agree with Brian but with this point 5 i do not. This are exact words of Charan from these new Charan three part books with questions and answers .

TARA TARA please come to my mail again i had computer break down so i lost your mail. I MISS You! Moon

Hi everyone,

I was initiated by Charan Singh over 44 years ago. I have changed a lot since then, everything changes, the way Sant Mat is now being taught has changed. Change is constant (hehe).

I loved Charan so much even though I never got physically close to him. I read all the books many times over, all the questions and answers are there and yes this helps to satisfy the intellect somewhat. I went through a stage of disillusionment and looked into other teachings and philosophies. Now (imo) nothing compares with Sant Mat.

I also like Gurinder and his style of teaching. He is forthright, down to earth, sometimes even blunt although he has softened somewhat now. To my mind he is something of a 'zen' like Master. He is the right guru for these times (imo).

I also enjoy reading Taoism. Emptying out, spaciousness. When people become rigidly filled with opinions and beliefs then there is no space for the Tao (which is another name for the Shabd).

So, for me, in the now, putting the intellect aside, the integral message of Sant Mat is that this is a path of Surat Shabd Yoga. The path of the sound current, the "audible life stream", "That" which we are. This is for each individual to discover through meditation.

Has this basic teaching been changed by the current guru? If so, then I have discovered my very own version lol.

Your Out Boy, just about any criticism of Gurinder Singh is fair, because the guru chooses to be secretive about what he says. If he doesn't write anything, if no one is allowed to record or transcribe what he says, then naturally there will be different interpretations of what the current RSSB teachings are.

With Charan Singh, you knew where he stood. Charan Singh wasn't afraid to say, this is what I believe. What does Gurinder Singh believe? No one knows. He seems to say different things to different audiences. So different people share different interpretations of what he is saying.

This isn't the fault of his audience members. It's the fault of Gurinder Singh. Unless he means to let the current RSSB "party line" be whatever anyone wants it to be. Which is fine. That just is very different from how the previous gurus presented the supposedly "ageless and changeless" teachings.


Many thanks for your response. I had been anxiously waiting to see it.

I carefully read your full response twice, and had mixed feelings about it. On one hand, for the first time, I found your opinion(s) to be very moderate and since I was not expecting that, I was a bit disappointed :). On the other hand, I felt good to know that, thanks to Brian and his blog, after having given vent to your "anger" (I am sorry if that's not the right word and please correct me on that), you no longer seem to care much about spiritual side of RSSB.

From what I understood, and please correct me if I misunderstood it, you seem to suggest that if we just forget about the spiritual angle, everything - GSD's personal wealth, RSSB buying properties all over the world worth millions of dollars, etc. - would seem normal. In my opinion, the problem, however, is that if we do forget about spirituality, then there's no scope for any debate, and then most (well argued) posts on this blog, including yours, would make little sense.

To put it in other words, if GSD is a normal human being like you and me, then he should not be the subject of debate on this blog. But, the fact is that, as RSSB head and the current Sant Satguru, GSD is considered GIHF by millions.

You also seem to suggest that (again please correct me if I misunderstood that) Charan might have considered GSD to me more "disciplined and dedicated" than his own two sons. I will appreciate if you could please elaborate on that a bit more.

A controversial question could be how many of those who do consider GSD (and many other gurus) to be GIHF do so out of love or out of fear. There could be many reasons for the love, but the following doha from Kabir does provide us a reason for the fear :)

"Kabir guru manukh kari jante, te nara kahiye andh;
Ihan duhkhi sansar mein, aage jamko bandh;

Kabir is saying: the one who thinks that Guru is human is a blind person. He [the person] is miserable in this world, and will fall to the clutches of Death in the afterworld."*

*Source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/40566745/Spiritual-Verses-of-Saint-Kabir

Blogger Brian, tAo, Moongoes, tucson, Osho Robbins and Mike Williams,

With due respect to Tara's right of expression, how do you see her moderate tone, for a change?

Very well said, Brian above (in your post of March 17, 2013 at 10:24 PM).

I think if Gurinder comes forth openly (and puts it on some sort of record) on following two things, it will help in clearing confusion/skepticism from many minds:

1. What exactly does he believe his/the Santmat teachings to be, and why is the change (if any) form the earlier teachings required?

2. What is the current worth of all the assets that his family owns and how all that they own was earned in an ethical way?

Hello Avi and fellow Blogsters,

I think Tara's tone is fine, but if I didn't, what's the use? It's like politics, another topic I'm growing tired of.

You see, I was initiated by Charan Singh in 1970 and pretty faithfully followed the teachings for about a quarter century. Sure, I had a few slip ups with a couple of the vows and didn't always meditate as much as required, but I kept the faith. I then gradually phased out as another view of life took hold which is actually sort of a non-view. I can't nail it down.

I used to come to this blog and respond to RSSB comments because it was still of interest to me as a belief I once held for many years. It was interesting to interact with the faithful as an outsider after having been an insider.

It has gotten to the point where I now have nothing to say. The whole thing is just absurd. You either come to that conclusion yourself, or not, but here's the thing...

It doesn't matter. Life is just playing with Life. One just is and doesn't know it. Everything just is and doesn't know it. We are neither that nor this.

Who is looking for what? There is nothing to look for and no need for any looking.

Understanding is the greatest impediment. If you think you understand, you don't.

We play at Life as if it were really real and mattered, as if we could actually do something about it. We thought there was a reality that was really real when no such thing could possibly be true.

If there was one reality, who would there be to know it? Think, man, who could there possibly be?

This is not meant to discourage anyone. No need to worry. It's OK. Eternity always is as whatever we appear to be.

As Avi was asking about Tara i was thinking and moderating answer of praising Tara with unlimited vibes all of this morning, quite a few hours, but at the end i decided i will write only one clause and this is the title which opens up a billion books.

Tara will be my Friend till the end of my days and further!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......

Thank you to everyone.

With due respect to everyone, based upon my understanding of some prior posts, I was hoping to get involved here in a rational discussion based on logic only, but at least some of the statements in the comments above seem to be too "live and let live" and "don't think too much" type.

For example: tuscon wrote and I quote:

"It doesn't matter. Life is just playing with Life. One just is and doesn't know it. Everything just is and doesn't know it. We are neither that nor this.

Who is looking for what? There is nothing to look for and no need for any looking.

Understanding is the greatest impediment. If you think you understand, you don't."

I am still hopeful, and will continue to post here at least for some time, but only after articulating my thoughts clearly.


Thanks for your detailed response. I understand where you are coming from. I am glad that you decided to move on, and perhaps, I also need to do the same. I think that I am currently going through the phase you have already been through. So, I guess, it will take some time before I start thinking like you.

Again, I can completely relate with you when you say, "All that said, I love Charan. As much as I try to get over my time with RSSB, the love that I feel for Charan, continues to stay with me like it is a part of me."

There was definitely something special about Charan that is missing in GSD (just my opinion).


What are you hoping for? The answer to all eternal questions wrapped in a nice concept? There is no rational solution, imo. There is no end to questions. The asker is the answer.

So, I put down some words that don't compute rationally. Maybe they don't mean anything. Sometimes such words can be a catalyst for some kind of wordless insight.

Isn't it remarkable that as imagined subjects we imagine ourselves to be objects while, as such pretend objects, we pose as our own subjects!

What we are could not possibly be limited by a grouping of words into a concept. In transcendence of such concepts we are infinite and inherently intemporal. We are inconceivable because conceptuality cannot conceive its source. As this inconceivable source there are no questions, there are no problems, there is no bondage or freedom either.


There was definitely something special about Charan that is missing in GSD

What is it? I was born in 1992 so I never got to see Charan, i hear a lot of ex satsangis say that Charan was special and GSD isn't.



As I said to Tara also I can understand where you are coming from. I apologize if I hurt your feelings inadvertently. Please don't take anything personally.

We mature with time and, hopefully, I will also mature.

One become less when mastering more, Moon

Thanks for being concerned about my feelings, but no problem. No offence taken. In this format tone is absent, so words can come across in a way that is other than was intended. We should keep this in mind when blogging. Words are the fog we have to see through.

I am pleased you liked my comment, Tara, as I enjoyed yours. You are one of my favorite voices on this blog.

I never dug into PLM much i mean it did not struck me that much i was curious about the technique but i remember now between satsangs when PLM was mentioned in discourse i thought some dicks were hard and some pussies were wet....he he

Greetings my friends,

Here's my advice...

Forget about the RSSB. Forget about GSD. Forget about following spiritual gurus and their cults.

The RSSB doesn't care about you, and neither does its master GSD. He doesn't ever think about you. Not at all. So don't waste your precious time paying attention to him, caring about people who don't give a damn about you.

Do you understand? They don't think about you. They don't know you. And you don't know them. You have nothing to do with them, in any way whatsoever.

Give your caring and your attention to the real people in your life, people whom you do know, like your families, your friends, and the good folks here at this blog. These are the people you actually know and with whom you interact - not some high-and-mighty (pseudo) guru or some big cult.

RS doesn't give a shit about you. We have contact with each other - other real people - so we don't need some guy that we never see, and who cares not about us.

The people who come here, who come together on this blog forum, these are the good people who deserve our love and respect. Not some far-away guru.

This is my message to you my friends, to anyone who was ever involved with RSSB, or anyone who is now currently involved. In fact, to anybody who simply comes and here shares their thoughts and feelings on this blog - these are the people that we have real contact with (via the net), and also the people who we actually know and communicate with in our daily lives. These are the people that should matter. These are the real people in our lives. (not some supposed high-falutin guru that we never ever speak to, or have any personal contact with)

This life and the real people that we do know - thats all we really have, and that is what matters. So forget about supposed 'spiritual gurus'. There are no 'perfect masters'. No such animal exists. So become free of that myth. Don't follow after anybody. Don't sell yourself to these illusions. Live your own life.

Jesus was reported to have once said: "Love ye one another, as I have loved you."

So, on that note, my love and my best wishes to all of you my friends. Love and respects to you all.


tAo, nicely said. I heartily agree. I don't write much about RSSB now, or think much about RSSB now, because I'm involved with living a really real life, here and now.

Fantasies can be fun, such as the fantasy of a "perfect master" or of soaring to the heaven of "Sach Khand." But reality is better, because it is real.

I think I know what Blogger Brian means by "reality" and "real"...this, here, now, the presence in which we live. I agree with him, but just to mess with words a bit (and not to disrespect his comment) I would say that in "reality" no such thing as "reality" exists.

To discern that there could be any difference between what appears to be "real" and what appears to be "unreal" is misleading since neither one nor the other, both together or the absence of both, could possibly have anything other than a conceptual existence.


Leaving RS is like a detox process, initially when you do the detox, you feel anxious and get symptoms for the first few days. But after a while, you feel great! When I left RS, i felt sad, but as time went on, I started to feel better.
I wrote a letter to a top RS regarding my problems in life, I was pursuing better health, I was having health problems and other problems. The RS rep said that I should 'write these things off and put it to destiny'. When you're an RS you are subject to such lectures from the speakers etc. They want you to accept these problems.

Now I don't listen to such crass, I say to myself, I can achieve anything in life if i put my mind to it.
I feel alot freer now that I'm not an RS.
I don't believe in predetermined destiny and other stuff.

Hey Tara,

Did you watch that video? If so what did you think of it? Over here in the UK, there were a lot of complaints from RS regarding the stuff that was said in the video.

Hi Tao,
Good post. In fact it seems there has been
a series of good posts in the last few days.

Its funny to watch people evolve over time.

The older one gets, the more one realizes
how many mistakes they have made in life.

We seem to all be sharing our mistakes on
this club.

By sharing our mistakes, hopefully future
generations will not have tp make the same
mistakes we have made.

What else can we leave to the children
of the world ?

Look people,

I love animals and hate people. If
you don't stop posting such intelligent
and compassionate posts here I may loose control................

and divorce my wife.... kill Tara's husband.....

and marry her.

Yes, some of my favorite commenters have been aboard lately like Mike, Tara and tAo.
I also would marry Tara but my wife would kill me if I took the dog with me. Otherwise, she'd go along with it, but I'd miss the dog(and my wife's cooking).

Yes, Gaz, getting out of the RS cult is a relief. It really was. I even went a step further and began to eat meat. Not because I had a craving for it, which I didn't, but because I was getting some pre-diabetic symptoms from the high carb veg diet I was on for many years. I gradually replaced wheat and corn with fish, eggs, chicken and finally some beef. It was very weird finding myself eating these things but I could not deny the improvement in my health.

I am not suggesting that anyone start eating meat. I happen to have a metabolic and blood type (O negative) that thrives on the synergy of nutrients found in animal foods. I survive on the veg diet but I thrive when meat is in the mix.

However, I like animals and I don't like killing things or the methods of commercial meat production so I tend to eat from lower on the food chain, such as fish or eggs.

However, I am willing to bet that anyone who has been a long time vegetarian would be surprised how good they feel after eating some quality red meat like bison, pasture raised beef or elk. Our ancestors roamed the steppe tundra of the Pleistocene as nomadic hunters of big game for tens of thousands of years. It's in our genes to assimilate this stuff, like it or not.

How's that for digressing from the theme of this thread?

Very interesting Tara...paleo diet, good cook...hmmmm. Do you have a dog too?

The paleo diet is great. Keeps you lean and fit with only light to moderate exercise. To stay lean on the veg diet I had to workout hard. Not that I didn't like exercise. I have always enjoyed sports, running, surfing, even physical labor. I like biking, walking and swimming these days. But when the body is not getting what it needs you tend to get cravings and overeat. My weakness was wheat bread which is a killer. Responsible for much human misery, heart disease, diabetes, leaky gut syndrome, allergies and much more. Fear the wheat, not the meat!

I am not strict paleo as I eat some rice and sweet potatoes but they aren't necessary and I go for days without them. I just like them and they agree with me, but there are no essential carbohydrates. You can live your entire life without grain or starch as long as you are getting proper protein and fats. Fat is good for you!! Throw in a variety of fruit and vegies and you're good to go.

Vegetarians are at a disadvantage but they can go paleo as well if they are willing to eat eggs which are a superfood. Nuts and seeds are highly nutritious. Ghee is not strictly paleo but has been known for its benefits for centuries.

Some Inuit tribes ate only meat or fish for their entire lives. I am not recommending this. Most of us would not like dining perpetually on raw seal liver and whale blubber.

Man, am I off topic or what?


Indeed. Junk food vegetarians get ill. A lot of what passes for healthy vegetarian food is not at all healthy. Amy's frozen and canned foods are NOT health building, in my opinion. Fresh and organic vegetarian is essential. It takes a lot of effort though, a solid dedication. Eating vegetarian processed foods will not keep you healthy. Neither will Kentucky Fried Chickens.

Are you familiar with Charlotte Gerson (Gerson Institute), Ann Wigmore (wheatgrass program) and Norman Walker (raw, organic juice)? Arnold Ehret? Google their names. Downing dead animals will not keep you as healthy as fresh ORGANIC non dead-animal foods...including sprouted seeds, soaked nuts, and fermented foods (such as sauerkraut).

Norman Walker lived to be 100 (and plus some say); Charlotte Gerson is 91. Ann Wigmore was healthy and strong at 85, but tragically perished in a fire.


Your post is very interesting, I have always been interested in diet because I am into bodybuilding and power lifting and have had food allergies for a long time.
It was very hard for me to build muscle because I was lactose intolerant, i couldn't digest soya very well, also I couldn't digest gluten/wheat either. In addition, not being able to meat and eggs made life hard.
However,I've done some research and I now realize that wheat/gluten IS deleterious like you say Tucson.
Also the best way to go is to consume RAW FOODS, by this i mean have foods such as oat groats, quinoa, nuts, spirulina, flaxseed, hemp, goats milk,avacados etc RAW, not cooked.
I've worked out that I can get over 150g protein,3k calories,and all the essential fats and amino acids on a raw food diet. This can help build muscle.

The only downside is that foods such as pizza,cookies,donuts are not allowed BUT I will have one off day every 4 months, i will have extensive amounts of pizza,cookies etc in my off days.

I'm going to buy this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Live-Food-Factor-Susan-Schenck/dp/0977679519

This will help educate me more with regards to food etc.

Vegetarians and especially vegans and even meat eaters don't have enough Vitamin B12 and Vitamin D in their diet, I'm asian so my Vitamin D is low at times.
Vitamin B12 methylcobalamin is the key, not the other type, the other one is not suitable for humans.

Ghee is a killer IMO, Ghee is very popular in Indian households, but is known for clogging arteries.

Gaz: There is being a weight lifter/power lifter and then there is bodybuilding and believe me when I say; the approach is completely different...bodybuilding is about aesthetics primarily where strength gains are a by product.....power lifting is about gross strength where bulking up will be by product...In regards to exercise science though...genetics plays a huge part as well as diet and understanding how the body responds to physical stress...man; that's what I love about the body and specifically exercise science.....I could put you through a workout and make you understand principles such as specificity, frequency, duration, record every workout and show you visible results.....my experience has been the opposite with spirituality...lot's of theory, lots of emotion and good intentions but ultimately; the only person I can convince is me...and that is usually a result of auto suggestion.


Why do you think ghee clogs arteries? Because of the saturated fat? If so, you're going on old school information which is called "the fat hypothesis" as the cause of heart disease which is as old as the 1940's and possibly before. This has essentially been de-bunked in recent decades.

Researchers at Harvard and other institutions analyzed 21 previous studies that looked at the relationship between saturated fat and heart disease. Their mega-analysis involved nearly 350,000 subjects who were followed for between 5 and 25 years. Their conclusion was that saturated fat does not cause heart disease or stroke for that matter.

If you fear cholesterol: When Harvard researchers analyzed data from the 'Nurse's Health Study' they found that half of all heart attack patients had normal cholesterol and that 82% of heart attacks were linked to smoking, excess alcohol, lack of exercise and obesity.

Ghee is high in CLA (conjugated linoleic acid) which has demonstrated anti-cancer properties and regulation of fat metabolism in the body. In other words, it helps to keep you lean by improving insulin sensitivity. CLA is found in animal fats (meat) as well as ghee.

Another benefit of ghee is the high amount of butyric acid which aids the intestine in maintaining a healthy flora and the health of the epithelial cells in the intestinal wall. Anyone who has eaten a lot of wheat would probably benefit from eliminating it from their diets and adding a little ghee which will help repair the damage done to the intestine due to gluten and the lesser known but equally harmful wheat lectin.

I could go on for awhile, but one more thing is that ghee keeps for a long time without refrigeration which is an advantage in cultures where refrigeration is not available, or camping, power outages, etc. and does not become rancid as readily as vegetable oils especially those of the poly-unsaturated variety like safflower, sunflower, corn and more.

Ghee provides essential fatty acids as well. There are reasons why ghee has played a part in ayurvedic medicine for more than a thousand years. Time tested. Time proven.

This does not mean I think people need to go out and start shoveling ghee down their throats, but they don't need to fear it either.

I am not sure what this has to do with killing the RSSB guru but one way to do it might be putting him on an all-wheat diet.


Thanks for the info guys.

My Dad used to have extensive amounts of Ghee, he had a heart operation a few years ago, I've also seen other people have heart ops possibly due to Ghee consumption.
But this could be due to lack of exercise etc.
Maybe your right, ever heard of GOMAD (Gallon of whole milk a day), this is used by skinny guys to bulk up.
I know some people that did this for a few months, they consumed 1 gallon of whole milk a day, that has about 120g saturated fat, they did this for 4 months. They had their blood tested and their bad cholesterol had went down, not up.
So i think you've got a fair point, i will look into this.

The9thGate- I do a mixture of powerlifitng and bodybuilding, for about 6-7 months, I do heavy squats,deadlifts, my orientation is to build raw strength.
Then for the 3 months I do bodybuilding routines, this is just to shape the muscles.

I like mixing it up, i also like doing plyometrics, I want to be the ULTIMATE athlete. I want to have strength,speed,endurance, and muscle for the ladies lol.

I don't like talking about genetics, imo, its about how you apply yourself. Sure, you've got mesmorphs, and ectos etc, i disregard such notions and just like to focus on the diet and training.

Tuscon: Thank you for sharing that information with us. My view on ghee has changed after reading that.....I suppose there are lots of myths about ghee which science can now correct....running in parallel to RSSB...there are lots of fables about that group too that we can write off....experience is a great teacher.


Haha, I will be going to Haynes Park (UK HQ) next month for Baba's 3 satsangs, RS usually have tasty food. Last time i went, they had wraps which had tofu chunks,potato,peas in them. Also there was 2 packets of ketchup and spicy sauce that come with the wrap.
They've had the above on the menu for years, I remember back in 2007, they had pizza on the menu. I have to say that was one of the best pizza i've ever had.

Soya is defiantly a no,no, i guess it's probalby ok for women, but not for us men.


I spoke to Dr Lane about the video, he's got the same view as me, its ok to criticize RS but the criticism has to be fair. There is obvious ulterior motive behind that video, Sikhs have been against RS for a long time.
I don't agree with Sikhism, RS is light years ahead of Sikhism. In Sikhs initiation ceromonies they get some tap water and recite a few lines out of the GGS, they think that the water turns to nectar when they recite the few lines. They also bathe in the pool of water outside the temple, they believe this eradicates their sins.
I don't agree with such practices.

The Sikhs on that show got most of their information from Rampal, this guy is a fraud, he's been to jail and contradicts things.

However, I do believe that they raised some interesting points, e.g. Onkar is the main word in the GGS but RS say its the second stage.

Also at the end, they got scolded by that guy, that guy told them things they didn't want to hear, they then dropped that phone call.

Tara-are you based in India? You seem to know a lot about RS.
I also know quite a bit, one of my familys friend knows Baba Jis security guard, that security guard tells them everything.


You wrote: "They also bathe in the pool of water outside the temple, they believe this eradicates their sins.
I don't agree with such practices."

--Satsangis believe gazing upon the form of the guru (darshan) eradicates their sins (karmas). What is superior about that? What's the difference? Do you agree with that practice?

Paleo diet, good cook AND three (3) nice dogs? Geez, too good to be true!

Tofu at dera with hydrogenated fats and flour? That's a killer formula. I guess soy agrees with some people but my body does not recognize it as food, especially tofu. Even though it is soft, it is very hard to digest as it is loaded with phytates which are anti-nutrients that actually block absorbtion of certain minerals and other nutrients. Tempeh is better as the bacteria pre-digest it, but it is foul to my tastes. Soy is one part of the veg diet I am glad to be liberated from.

--Satsangis believe gazing upon the form of the guru (darshan) eradicates their sins (karmas). What is superior about that? What's the difference? Do you agree with that practice?

Absolutely not Tucson, i said this to a hardcore satsangi, they used to believe the above point, but now they believe that 20minutes darshan of radiant form eradicates their sins.
I don't agree with the perfect master notions etc.
I just don't like it when i see Sikhs fabricating a lot of stuff, they need to be put back in to their place.

Well, with regard to the video, it was factually correct, IMO. Forget Rampal, he's a weirdo, the same has been chronicled by the oldest Sikh families of the Punjab. I happen to know a very prominent Sikh historian and he told me the same. This information is archived, but some of it is so old that it doesn't seem to have a valid voice. The Sikhs of course, bring their hot-bloodedness to the fore and start quoting the GGS and that's a distraction from the real facts.

Also, I don't think RS is ' ahead ' of Sikhism by any stretch of the imagination. Okay, I'm Sikh by birth, but I'm a fringe-Sikh and I'm all for criticism. ( I even pushed the head priest of a gurudwara once, in full public view, for reasons that will make for a funny post, someday. ) It is just that I think that RS philosophy is more psychologically damaging than the dictates of other missions and religions. Of course, this is my personal opinion, I was real a bummer at meditation and I couldn't see the light. The question is, how many have ?

Even though RS masters may not be GIHF, i still believe its the way forward just like Chand said. RS is practical , Sikhism is just book reading, I know many RS who have seen the light. They knew about their death 6 months before hand. Also, one gentleman predicted in 1984 that the next Guru would be a man named Gurinder. This gentleman had a lot supernatural powers. How many Sikhs have had such experiences? IMO Sikh granthis & higher members of the Sikh hierarchy are more corrupt than politicians. I once heard that a Granthi hoovered all the money from the box at the end of the day when no one was there.

RS meditation does work, but it takes a lot of time, IMO, the initiates are the doers, this is in contrast to what Gurinder says.

I am fine with tofu and fine with lacto veg diet and don't have any special philosophy for vegetarianism .As i said before i love all hardcore asanas and weightlifting and bartendaz style of bodyweight training and in the past i was in Jeet kune do. I also love from time to time juice fasting and water fasting. I am not a special animal lover I see some nice creatures but I see also some very annoying ones. I am usually calm but have this switch in me when turned on I can do some crazy but to me fun stuff like i could box with my hands many times with full force to concrete wall and my hands were like rubber sticks with iron but i don't do that anymore .I could slam dunk with my 183 cm but that came from constant jumping and 7 to 8 hours of ruff street basketball and I was not used to call any faults and I let other players to go on me hard and I can do some other things too but I am bored to talk about them cause they actually don’t mean nothing special to me. I eat buckwheat and millet and these two make wonders guys, a real wonders and I LOVE raw milk directly from mountains or from local farmer and in the moment I drink milk I feel like I drank gold, really. And I also eat seitan made by me and lots of other stuff. I prepare all my foods alone and I usually don’t eat processed food. I mean in general I do by myself everything like bread, pates, seitan, and all other dishes you know I only buy ingredients from mostly farmers and then what I have on my plate is made by me or my wife’s hands. I like to drink herbal teas from which herbs are from our mountains I sometimes drink CLAY and this is the real shit it takes the devil out of your body and Dear Tucson or anybody if you want to try it we can talk something on it and I could send it to you and the saying here is What this clay can heal, it heals forever. And I tell you how I think, ‘’once I saw one representative around 50 yo eat a banana and and he went on preaching about veganism and I said to him II love milk man and it does wonders to me and that it is gold to me and that I was never sick in my youth and he went on me eeh.. eh .ey.. wait until my age and when you will be sick… and there this my switch goes on and I think and say just eat your banana and stop preaching me with these threats about how I will see when I will be sick. Dude first of all I am not scared of sickness like you are I treat my sickness like my best friend and than when it is time we say goodbye to each other. And dude I will celebrate my 103 birthday with big glass of this beautiful white gold of milk.’’ And Dear ones here I salute you with glass of milk and a little organic cacao, CHEERS


You sound very informed with regards to health, I will be doing juice fasting next month.
I like goats milk, its very tasty and healthy.

Did you mention Asanas? I've been practicing these for a while, they are good. I admire the man who has made asanas popular (Baba Ramdev). That guy is a true saint.

Our food is the key, some people have cured cancer via solid diet and exercise.
I used to think that a good diet consisted of weetabix,cows milk for breakfast,peanuts, white bread and cheese for lunch, and then gluten pasta with baked beans for dinner.

Now my perspective is totally different.

I am interested in learning more about 'clay', please could educate me the benefits of it.



Thanks for the clarification. So some satsangis believe 20 minutes of darshan is enough to eradicate all your sins? I remember they used to say one glance from the guru can burn lifetimes of bad karma, so the guru is slowing down a bit.

I have never been to the U.K. However, I might have a ton of relatives there (maybe several tons) because my father was from the Liverpool-Manchester area, but I never knew him. I actually live in the vicinity of Tucson, Arizona, not the city itself. I live amongst the lizards, snakes and spiny things. One wouldn't expect an ex-California surfer to end up sweltering in a non air-conditioned knife shop in the desert, but "Californicated" is ruined by poor government, fruitcake politics, heavy taxation and way, way too many people. Sigh. It was a great place once.


I know a little about cleansing with clay. Over the years I have tried a lot of diets and cleansing methods. These days I don't do anything special. Generally, the body takes care of itself once you find out what agrees with it and eat a little less than you would like. Learn to enjoy the feeling of being hungry at least for part of most days. Once in while though you need to do some temporary regimen to get yourself "re-set". We have lemon trees around here. I like to have the juice of a lemon in a large glass of water in the morning. Does this body good.

As an athletic type you have to do more than I do to meet the demands you put on the body. Frankly, I am happy to be liberated from the burden of trying to be super fit and outrun, outplay, outfight and outlive everyone else. I just don't give a damn. This is one of the few gifts of getting older. You tend to care less what others think. Not that it wouldn't be nice to have the body of a 20-30 or even 40 year old again. I don't want to live to 100. I have never seen a centenarian whose condition I envied.

Yo Tucson wau snakes and lizards uf if we ever gonna meat i think you better come to me...I admire you older than me guys and i respect you i use to help much older people than you are learned alot from them (washing them,cleanig wounds, reading stories and making them laugh...uf those were the days..) neither do i wanna live till 100 that was just my story
Love Tucson

Gaz my knowledge of asanas is that Krishnamacharya was one who popularised and Kuvalayananda who was very athletic. My interest in athletic comes from Maxick, Sandow, Sig Klein Pyotr Kryloff i am an old school guy.


It was interesting to know the well-connectedness of the "Dera" administrators with the people in the government as a possible reason for the failure of the government to crack down on them.

At times, I also wonder as to why the Indian Government is so soft on the various "Deras" and several other religious organizations. Even the media does not seem to be too keen on exposing them (the politicians are enough to keep them busy anyway !). I have been of the view that both the politicians and the bureaucrats are happy with the things as they are (regarding various "Deras" and several other religious organizations) because, in effect, they are only helping the government by keeping the public "busy" and not allowing people with enough time to think about other important things and also by way of making them complacent (and therefore uncomplaining) by believing in things like "Karma Theory" and "poor destiny" etc.

At the same time, it has always amused me as to how various India-based religious organizations have been successful even in many other parts of the world including the U.S. and the U.K.

I have seen it mentioned at several places on this blog that Americans, in general, are much more analytic and logical in their thinking as compared to millions of less literate and poor Indians, and that's one of the many reasons for the success of so many cults in India.

Earlier, I had posted the following info, at a wrong place (it seems) on this blog, and am wondering some people here may be interested in knowing about a new "Guru", with the name of Ishwar Puri, who plans to spread "Santmat" (based on the teachings of Sawan Singh from RSSB) and even establish a "Dera" in the U.S.

Please have a look at the following and especially the embedded video therein:


I could not stop myself from laughing when I heard Ishwar Puri explaining to his "disciples" (who also seemed to be amused, interestingly, by the explanation!!) how he chose the place for establishing a new "Dera" in the U.S. Later in the video, Ishwar Puri has also been shown openly asking for monetary and other help from his disciples.

I did some research on my own and found that Dr. Ishwar Puri and his father were among the most prominent "Satsangis" of the Dera Beas, but looking at his website and after watching some of his many video lectures available on youtube, it seems (to me at least) that he is not representing RSSB and rather going on his own. In fact, he is planning to establish "Dera Baba Sawan Singh" in Wisconsin, U.S. on the lines of "Dera Baba Jaimal Singh" in Beas, Punjab, India.

What do you think?

In continuation of my earlier post, I am fully aware that given the huge following they have, it's not "easy" for the media and/or the government in India to even criticize the religious organizations or "Deras", let alone, to investigate and take any action against them. But, not long ago, the same was true about the corruption of any politician or a bureaucrat. Thankfully, things are changing on that front, howsoever slow the pace of change may be. So, I think, we can, at least, start a discussion here!!

Hi Tara,

Southern Arizona has a lot of interesting history and geography (as does most of the rest of the planet). It's worth a visit if you find yourself anywhere near the area.

Since the desert is filled with things that sting, bite or poke you, it is appropriate that I have an interest in knives. However, there are mountains here too with pines and there are riparian zones with year 'round water.

I have practiced a little Silat, an Indonesian knife fighting art which got me into making a few of my own knives which turned into a hobby/business, but I am otherwise retired.

Yo Tucson,

I'd love to go to the US, I'm even thinking of moving there after i've finished my degree. I don't like snakes however, so i guess its going to be hard finding an area to live in which doesn't have these evil reptiles.

UK isn't known for many good things, I guess one of the few good things about the UK is that there are no snakes.


Most of the U.S. (Hawaii and Alaska not so much) has snakes, both reptilian and mammalian. One of the worst species is called politicians. Another dangerous species is the dishonest news media. Put the two together and you have a monster.

By comparison, rattlesnakes and copperheads are not so bad. I would not be afraid of the U.S. because of the reptilian type of snakes. It's not like you have to jump over them to get down the road.

Another type of snake to be wary of is called "guru". They can be found almost anywhere although they may go by a different name. But a skunk is a skunk regardless of what you call it.


Very well said, and this time I am in full agreement with you.


I have been living in the U.S. for a few years now, and have visited quite a few states here by road. So, I can also testify that you don't have to worry so much about the "reptilian type" of snakes. As for the other three types, they are everywhere now, as nicely expressed by tucson.

I enjoy Tara's observations:

"Secondly, these Guru-Deras are basically hope-dealing outposts to the millions of poor believers that constitute the majority of their Sangats."

--And yet many don't see this, including more sophisticated-educated types, and rely on the large numbers of attendees as evidence that the guru is genuine. Sort of like the rats following the Pied Piper over the cliff.

"A few days ago someone told me that GSD recently said that even sleeping during meditation counts as meditation !"

--This is great news! Although I have been a bit lax in my observation of RSSB vows for the past couple of decades, at least I am not behind in my meditation. Since I sleep most nights for about 7 hrs., I figure I am ahead in the game and the guru owes me big time. Now I can expect the radiant form to pop up at any moment and guide me to a dweep with innumerable hansas on it after a dip in Mansorovar.

I remember Ishwar Puri from the 70's. An articulate orator and very charismatic fellow like the current U.S. president. He could charm you into believing in him just by spouting rhetoric with style. The ladies were gaga over him. I think he went off and created his own RS splinter group to avail himself of certain "benefits" but my memory is fuzzy on this and it's hearsay anyway.

Tara and tucson,

Thanks for your comments. I am going to be busy the next couple of days. I will try to post a comment over the weekend. Please don't take my silence back as anything but what it is.

Peace out guys Tara tAo Tucson Manjit ... cause you ARE!


Now I can expect the radiant form to pop up at any moment and guide me to a dweep with innumerable hansas on it after a dip in Mansorovar.

.... We should not expect anything, the master who has the power to give has the power to know what is fit for the disciple.There is still a long way, you have to be a real Gurmukh, attend satsangs, go for darshan and only after that the master can pop up.

I got the great vibe last night for you guys mentioned above while listening to Pixies and than went to thank you online for You just being there.

Guy at the end, you mean Manjit?

quote Juan that the master can pop up

....Juan the things already popped, you just missed them with that mindset.

Ok Tara sorry for my misunderstanding i have to increase my english language knowledge.Yes now i understand your post.Love,M

A big Hi to Tara, Hi Moongoes, Hi Tucson, Hi Roger, Hi Gaz, Hi Avi, Hi Brian. Love you guys. and hello to anyone I may have missed.

Fyi... much ike Tucson, i eat fish and eggs, and also blackbeans. fats like butter, coconut oil and olive oil. also pure unsweetened whey protein isolate. occasionally some small amounts of rice or sweet potatoes or oatmeal. or buckwheat and millet pancakes. (grin) certain vegetables and some fruit. i also do heavy weightlifting and lots of push-uos, pull-ups, sit-ups, etc.

Here's an interesting fact: Augustus Owsley Stanley, aka "Owsley", aka "Bear" (now deceased), was a famous counter-culture figure during the 1960s (for certain rather unique reasons known to some of us), and was he also a personal acquaintence of mine at that time. Owsley was also the original financial backer, and also the sound engineer for the Greatful Dead. He also made a significant amount of the 'acid' that was distributed during psychedelic revolution of the 1960s - many millions of doses. He was a very spiritual guy too, but in a very down-to-earth pragmatic sort of way.


Well, as it turns out, early in his life Owsley became a life-long meat eater. He was on a paleo-diet long before anyone ever even knew about such things. I think he learned it from his studies of anthropology.

Owsley's diet consisted of only meat, fish, poultry, eggs, dairy cheese & butter and the like. No vegetables, no grains, no potatoes, no sugars or carbs, no processed food. Yet he was as fit and healthy and strong as an ox right up until his untimely death in 2011 (he died in a car crash near his home in Australia). He also never got sick.

So, let that be a lesson to all you vegans and vegge-heads.

Fats (like butter and coconut oil and meat fat) are good for you. Eggs are good for you (protein a& cholesterol). Fish and fish oil is good for you (omega fatty acids). Meat and poultry is good for you.

You have been brain-washed by wrong information. Soy and soy products are quite bad for you. Sugars and grains and starches are bad for you. Lectins and phytates are bad for you. Vegetables (some) are good for you. Casein is bad for you. Whey is good for you.

You won't know how much better you can feel until you break free from the vegetarian/vegan taboo about animal products. You have been trapped in unhealthy dietary practices. Many vegetarians and vegans are unhealthy. They don't sense it when they are young, but they will when they get older.

The RS diet which consists of lots of cooked grains and dairy (milk & cheese)and not much good protein... is a very bad diet. This is why a majority of satsangis are always getting sick and colds and flu. They eat lots of grains and starchs and sugars and dairy. They don't get any omega fatty acids. Excessive raw food diets are also generally bad too, except for cleansing.

Just eat some eggs and some fish and some good fats and fatty acids for a few days, and stay away from sugars and grains, and you will start to feel much better. You won't know and understand this until you do it. You just have to do it. Stop listening to all these veggee and vegan diet fanatics. They don't understand.

tAo...great comment...This is for you....you might appreciate it.....Jerry played a mean guitar but this is pretty good too if you ask me....

I myself didn't start lacto vegetarian diet because of sant mat or any other yoga or philosophy. I was raised on milk and fruits and some little chicken meat but i never felt comfortably eating meat because all of those veins and tendons i found in meat. Uf i never liked the taste of sea food i felt the taste was like my head parked at the port.So i just slowly forgot about meat when i got older.I did looked some great historical vege sports guys and ladies just to support my comfort on my way of eating i mean really great gymnastic and old school weightlifters
but i will not pop links or mention them here cause i am not a preacher to anyone i am just sharing my life.(only if anybody wants some further infos of what i represent).My life and health went astray for sometime because of influence of some hard moments and events happened to me and my trying to heal the wounds with alcohol ganja and cigarettes but old school training and my diet improved it big time.
Gabba gabba hey,moon

Guys guys tAo Gaz RS diet seriously? Oh come on.I met if we talk only of so called satsangis hundreds of them and they were vegans,all other sort of veggie creatures and meat eaters and amongst this they eat very differently.Yes amongst this satsangis i met junkies, ganja brainers, meat eaters, alcohol drinkers,aura healers, ghostbusters and so on. I mean i neverd heard of so called RS diet just one of four vows to avoid we all know what.I mean that any group calling for same reason is kind of stupid, like calling weightlifters and bodybuilders steroid fuck ups just because many of guys used steroids and put black marks on this beautiful art.
And tAo i really liked previous post of you more about forgetting, and now RS diet? That is pussy power, Come on let us forget them as you said so.This is like bigger guy takin on small guy.They(RS) cannot control you they cannot harm you and guys stop giving them power all the time, let us forget.
Gaz tAo come to me i will give you all the food and sleeping rooms for free and we can go to mountains and do and see many other stuff and friends we can do
45 sets of 10 pul ups 45x20 push ups 45x15 dips 45x25 squats for three days staying only on water and the 4 day you will eat my chapaties stuffed with vegetables and seitan made under my hands and mayo under my hands with chia seeds like little children and it will do only Good to you and affter mynth tea original from Egypt you will fly and there will not be any little tinny space for whinning that some food will harm you and affter that we will run up hill for 2000m where air is so clean that your blod vessels will get a new shape and you will feel just like superman.So let us forget like tAo said and stop being pussies and than maybe some beautiful things can really happen.
So guys i already said i lost your mails cause i had comp crash and i cannot write you and all of you who have my mail come on write me cause i Freking MISS You, precious souls.From my heart,Moon


Life life without music
I can't go go no
Life without music I can't go

Yes my dear tAo my dear siddha brother let us dance naked around the fire and roar like wild animals with precious child heart. Keep the Fiyah bunin..


Why try to make I unhappy?
Really I don't know
If it was up to them, my friend
We would never see the sun nor the snow
Through that mystical communication within

We keep on comin' together
I love to see brothers and sisters
Lookin' out for one another
That's the way it should be
Not contrary, stop tearin' down each othe


Greetings to tAo who as usual posted some good info. In addition to Owsley, another proponent of an all-meat diet was Vilhjalmur Steffansson, a noted arctic explorer and ethnologist who lived with and studied the Inuit (Eskimos) in the early part of the 20th century when many of them still adhered to their traditional diets and customs. He has written a number of interesting books that I enjoyed. Stefansson lived from 1879 to 1962.

From Wikipedia:

"Stefansson is also a figure of considerable interest in dietary circles, especially those with an interest in very low-carbohydrate diets. Stefansson documented the fact that the Inuit diet consisted of about 90% meat and fish; Inuit would often go 6 to 9 months a year eating nothing but meat and fish—essentially, a no-carbohydrate diet. He found that he and his fellow European-descent explorers were also perfectly healthy on such a diet. When medical authorities questioned him on this, he and a fellow explorer agreed to undertake a study under the auspices of the Journal of the American Medical Association to demonstrate that they could eat a 100% meat diet in a closely observed laboratory setting for the first several weeks, with paid observers for the rest of an entire year. The results were published in the Journal, and both men were perfectly healthy on such a diet, without vitamin supplementation or anything else in their diet except meat and entrails."

--One thing Stefansson wrote about was that Inuit on their traditional diets were largely free of the degenerative diseases we see in civilization today such as heart disease, diabetes, arthritis and cancer. They simply lived to old age, wore out and died.

More than proving the desirability of an all-meat diet I think what is clearly demonstrated here is that humans are omnivores who are able to adapt to a wide variety of foods and diets. I have known both meat eaters and vegetarians who have good health. It is my opinion, however, that most humans do best with some kind of meat or fish as a regular part of their diet. Vegetarians seem to require more supplements than meat eaters who otherwise are on a similar quality of diet.

Also, when we are young, the effects of poor diet are not as apparent as when we are older. I used to run long distances at a fast pace, do it again the next day on a diet consisting mainly of fruit.

It may appear that a vegan diet agrees with us only to find out decades later that we have health issues. The same could be said for a meat eater who perhaps ate too much meat for their body type and activity level or who made other poor food choices.

So, nothing is resolved here.

Tucson it is resolved for me, it is.
One has to find what works for him.
Question is What do you two guys(tAo,Tucson) want now for all of us to eat fish and meat now like you do? Or are you just saying that you finally found your option to your health now.I hope the second.

quote tAo,
So, let that be a lesson to all you vegans and vegge-heads

....come on man is that still necessary from you

...tAo i don't understand now when you said you don't like preaching and forcing you opinion on others but now.....i really hope i am wrong but it seems like you do


quote tAo
Just eat some eggs and some fish and some good fats and fatty acids for a few days, and stay away from sugars and grains, and you will start to feel much better. You won't know and understand this until you do it. You just have to do it. Stop listening to all these veggee and vegan diet fanatics. They don't understand.

i don't understand do you call me a brainwashed and veggie head or are you talking with yourself that you don't wanna be like that cause years ago you used the same approach against meat eaters when you were veggie.

look tAo and Tucson i can swallow that you can think of me or call me brainwashed veggie cocksucker but i cannot withstand if my two idol friends(tAo, tucson) are becoming preachy and put their opinion on force cause once this Moongoes set you as kings of non preaching and opinion forcing and i want for you to stay that kings.

Fanatics are everywhere amongst veggies vegans meat eaters common people preachers religious people and healthy and sick people are amongst everybody too.So popping links and proving something what i walk means nothing to me any more

Guys let us forget and get out of this things accept each other and have a great time till we live here, who needs arguments and tension i think nobody, there are too many stuff on this planet to do so many beautiful things and mine philosophy is


Hey, there's nothing preachy in my post. Nowhere do I tell people to eat meat.

I did say: "More than proving the desirability of an all-meat diet I think what is clearly demonstrated here is that humans are omnivores who are able to adapt to a wide variety of foods and diets."

Words are tricky and one has to be very precise with them in order to avoid being misunderstood. I can see how that statement could be misconstrued. Instead of saying "more than proving", which could mean that the desirability of an all meat diet is proven, I should have said, "rather than proving", which implies that something other than proof was conveyed.

Happy Spring Holiday.

I'm facetiously being PC because the secularists are trying to remove any trace of religious tradition from American culture. Instead of an Easter egg hunt the kids now supposed to go on "spring egg hunts".

"I found a spring egg! I found a spring egg that the Spring Bunny hid under the bush!"

In Big Bang we trust.

Happy Easter.

Thanks Tucson big time.M

My journey now ends here. Moon -now- goes. I wish you everybody from the deepest of my heart, to reach the primordial state of your life so the names of our paths we are walking on will not be of any barriers and burdens anymore.Moon

P.S. Dear tAo i love you,Moon



I just now read your comments. I love you too brother, you're a good man.

And no, I'm not trying to be preachy. I was just sharing some info. If the vegg diet works for you, then good. I was a vegge and a vegan and a raw juicer etc for 45 years. It was good in many ways, but I think it was also deficient in some important things. Like essential fatty acids etc.

Even though I don't comment here much anymore, I hope you don't go away. I'm sure everybody likes you here, so perhaps you should stick around. I have not been on the net as much as I used to, these last six months. I have been dealing with various issues in my own life.

As for your jammin workout and food and mountain air, sounds good to me. It would be awesome to come visit you someday. But then I don't know if I could do 45 sets (of anything at my age (grin).

Like, for instance, I usually only do about 4 to 6 sets of 25 reps of push-ups, 2 or 3 times a day. That equals 12 sets of 25 reps, or 300 push-ups per day. I also do about 10 sets of 10 reps of pull-ups, every few days. I also do 5 to 10 sets of about 20-25 reps of sit-ups, every few days.

And sure Moon, I will definitely email you sometime during the next few days. So hang in there.

For your musical enjoyment, here's my old friend Neil Young singing Sugar Mountain:


Jump into the Fire (of Something Else)



Long ago, I had heard that Singh brothers (during the time when they owned Ranbaxy) sometimes provided their company owned private jet for some of GSD's trips. However, I read at a couple of places on this blog that GSD flies in his "own" private jet. Also, I had heard that there were plans to build a small "airport" inside Dera Beas. Could you please shed some light on this?


What do you think of Baba Baljit Singh? Are you aware that he is against RS? He recently threatened to knock down Dera Beas.


Check out the before http://www.sikhnet.com/news/radha-soami-sect-chief-sikhs-lay-foundation-stone-shrine

And after http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kPpqH37s_E

Pretty amazing what the Guru can do, Gurinder was 'invited' to Baljits wedding.

Baljit singh won't be a 'hardcore sikh' for too long, there are talks that he might be a future RS speaker.

I recently saw a doc about a company advisor training the direction of very big companies and he said that a shocking large number of these people where sociopaths. These people had much trouble to feel what others feel. They learned however to use tricks and their skills came very handy in reorganizing big companies. In short they where successful. Now the advisor found one general rule. These directors tend to get bored and start all kind of fusions with other companies just to get some action. Often this was the point where the sociopath became a trouble to the organization and this point could simple be recognized when the organization started buying jet planes :)
The advise was to immediately get rid of the guy that wanted the jet plane and to hold on to the plane for a while to see who got attracted to it after the buyer was gone and to fire that person too.
That is to get rid of the sociopaths because in the end they will most likely destroy the organization at their own benefit.


Thanks for the link to Religare Voyages. I was not aware as to how diverse the Religare business was.

So, does GSD use any one of those planes/helicopters from the Religare fleet for traveling within India, say from Beas to Delhi/Mumbai etc. or has one of those been reserved just for him - and family/friends? Also, how often does he end up using the personal plane/helicopter? I hope he does not use them for International travel but??

Sorry for bothering you by asking so many details but I am trying to compare Charan and GSD in terms of lavish spending - I am assuming all travel expenses are borne by RSSB trust. I know Charan used just a simple white Fiat (and later a Maruti) for many years before "upgrading" to a Premier 118 NE.


Babani has been a hot topic recently, you may have seen this link http://www.unp.me/f16/radha-swami-satsang-beas-expose-business-dealings-65652/#ixzz20sgEaPG2

Warning to people that haven't seen it, its very,very disturbing.

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