Radha Soami Satsang Beas rakes in cash (and a river bank)

Thanks to David Lane (a.k.a "Neural Surfer") I came across a link to a news story about a big real estate deal involving land owned by Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), a Indian religious/spiritual organization headquartered in the Punjab.

A commenter points out that the sale is for about $108 million, with houses on the property slated to sell for around $2 million. Wow. Parts of India must be imitating Beverly Hills.

I also was emailed a link to another story about RSSB: "Dera raising embankment to change course of river; farmers complain."

Hundred million dollar deals and questionably legal construction aren't uncommon in the world of big business. But as David Lane said, they seem incongruent with the values RSSB purports to hold.

Comments

[tucson]

RSSB has come a long way from the days of Seth Shiv Dayal Singh meditating for 17 years in a back room and Jaimal Singh meditating in a cave in the Punjab wastelands with jackals running around, his hair tied to an overhead bar so that he would be awakened when he nodded off and subsisting on stale chipatis.

[Thomas]

Did you actually read the article? It says: "The land was earlier
owned by the Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB)."
So the construction is being carried out by a different organisation.

Also, does David Lane have any evidence whatsoever that the proceeds from the sale were not directed towards providing further facilities for the Sangat in India? His suggestion of a connection with Religare is at best mischievous, at worst malicious.

[tAo]

Thomas, you say "at best mischievous, at worst malicious"?? you haven't a clue as to what the hell you are talking about. fyi, RS satsangis are deeply involved in Religare.

[Brian Hines]

Thomas, obviously I read the article. I wrote a blog post about it. David's point is that RSSB has become a big business/money organization, engaging in hundred million dollar real estate deals. And also, with Religare, high ranking RSSB officials have created intimate ties between the "spiritual" group and a major corporation.

So RSSB is tied to the real estate deal. And Religare is tied to RSSB. Whether there is a tie between Religare and the deal is another question, but one worth asking.

[Paul]

Same old blah blah blad....

[Thomas]

Hello tAo. If you can't respond without being abusive, I'm not going to bother any further.
Good night and good luck!

[Brian Hines]

Thomas, I second Tara's hope: hang around. I apologize for not catching, and deleting, the personal insult directed at you in a comment. I've taken care of that now.

THe Internet often isn't a friendly place for thin-skinned people. However, since you spoke freely and strongly in your own comment, I'm hoping that you'll understand how others feel equally passionately about their own views.

Sometimes language goes over the top on blogs (and elsewhere). That's better than not conversing at all. With risk comes reward. So hopefully you'll keep risking a sharing of your views.

[Dogribb]

Same old blah blah pointing to same old lack of truth and integrity.Whats missing is a good old sex scandal.Us Yanks love those

[Howard]

I have been reading these comments about how this is "Shocking" without anone even asking Gurinder or RSSB what the facts are. Don't you think it would be a good idea to let RSSB explain there intentions and actions before making judgement? If someone really wants clear answers rather than reading the worst into RSSB then they should at least get all the facts before pronouncing judgement.

[tAo]

why should we go ask the leader and his cult, when the pertinent facts and the finacial info are already publicly available and known?

and what on earth makes you think that this feudalistic cult guru is going to actually answer any hard questions from his critics? you can't really be that naive now are you?

i think you are just another sucker for the myth that RS is 'fair and balanced'. dream on.

[Howard]

why should we go ask the leader and his cult, when the pertinent facts and the finacial info are already publicly available and known?

TAO, HAVE YOU READ OVER THE FINANCIAL RECORDS PUBLISEHD BY GOVERNMENT AUDITORS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO READ THEM? IN OTHER WORDS, DO YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT? OR WOULD YOU AS USUAL PREFER VENTING YOUR SPLEEN WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT INVESTIGATING THE FACTS? IF I EVER MET A BITTER EX-ER IT IS YOU. YOU MUST HAVE BEEN DEEPLY IN LOVE WITH THE MASTER AT ONE TIME, DON'T FEEL ALONE, IT HAPPENED TO MANY OF US.

and what on earth makes you think that this feudalistic cult guru is going to actually answer any hard questions from his critics? you can't really be that naive now are you?

IN FACT THERE ARE PUBLICLY AVAILABLE AUDITS THAT MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, ARE NOT DECEPTIVE. HOW MISTRUSTING OF EVERYONE ARE YOU? MAYBE YOU HAVE READ YOUR OWN MOTIVES INTO WHAT OTHERS DO. TAO, HOW HONEST ARE YOU WHEN YOU PAY YOUR TAXES?

i think you are just another sucker for the myth that RS is 'fair and balanced'. dream on.

YOUR LEVEL OF DISCOURSE BELONGS IN THE GUTTER. IT IS AN OLD STRATEGY IN DEBATE TO ATTACK THE PERSON WHEN YOU CAN'T ATTACK THE TRUTH. HELL, YOU ATTACK THE PERSON JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK OUR EARS ARE GARGAGE CANS. DID YOUR MOTHER EVER TEACH YOU HOW TO TALK TO THE OTHER BOYS AND GIRLS?

I DON'T KNOW WHY I EVEN RESPONDED TO YOU EXCEPT I AM TERRIBLY BORED. I KNOW THIS WILL PISS YOU OFF AND YOU WILL THROW UP ALL OVER YOURSELF AND THE REST OF US ONE MORE TIME; YOU HAVE DONE IT SO OFTEN WE HAVE LEARNED TO IGNORE YOU AS WE WOULD A RANTING CHILD WHO HAS JUST LEARNED THE F WORD. MAYBE YOU COULD TRY A LITTLE MORE CIVILITY AND THEN WE MIGHT TAKE YOU A BIT MORE SERIOUSLY.

TARA, I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT NEEDING GREAT CAUTION, BUT A NEWSLETTER IS HARDLY PROOF THAT GURINDER IS AT VARIANCE WITH HIS TEACHINGS. THE TEACHINGS SIMPLY SAY A MASTER SHOULD SUPPORT HIMSELF WITH HIS OWN EARNINGS. IS INSIDER TRADING EARNINGS? THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION, BUT WE STILL NEED THE FACTS AND THE MAIN WITNESS HAS YET TO TAKE THE STAND. HOW ABOUT YOU WRITE HIM AND ASK HOW HE MAKES A LIVING AND HOW HE RECONCILES THE ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY HE AND HIS CHILDREN HAVE MADE OF LATE WITH THE FACT CHARAN SINGH USED TO SAY IF YOU WANTED TO RUIN A MAN GIVE HIM LOTS OF MONEY. IS HE TRYING TO RUIN HIMSELF AND HIS FAMILY? IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HEAR WHAT HE HAS TO SAY.

[tAo]

Howard says:

"TAO, [...] IF I EVER MET A BITTER EX-ER IT IS YOU. YOU MUST HAVE BEEN DEEPLY IN LOVE WITH THE MASTER AT ONE TIME""

-- i don't usually respond to people who use all caps. people like you who use all caps do so because a) you are weak and insecure; and b) you think that using all caps (shouting) somehow gives more strength, more power, and more credibility to the weak nonsense that you write. but i got news for you, it does the opposite.

anyway, fyi, i never had any kind of "love" for "the master". why would i love some guy that i did not know personally, and that i had almost zero contact with? its rather absurd actually. i have said this many times before: i was only interested in the meditation, and never the guru. i had no love or devotion to the guru. why should i? charan singh was nobody special to me. he was nothing more than the leader of a religious organization. so howard, go find someone else to dump your lame rubbish on. and btw, i am not "bitter" about RS at all. not even in the slightest. why would i be? why should i be? i have nothing to be "bitter" about. RS hasn't done anything bad to me personally. i actually don't even care about RS at all. my criticism of RS is entirely intellectual, not emotional. so you obviously don't know what YOU are talking about howard. your are just another immature believer who can't stand the fact that other people don't believe as you do.

"TAO, HOW HONEST ARE YOU WHEN YOU PAY YOUR TAXES?"

-- i don't need to pay taxes. the government does it for me. and its most always those like you who try to cast doubt upon the honesty of other, who are the real dishonest ones.

"YOUR LEVEL OF DISCOURSE BELONGS IN THE GUTTER. IT IS AN OLD STRATEGY IN DEBATE TO ATTACK THE PERSON WHEN YOU CAN'T ATTACK THE TRUTH."

-- is that why you HAVE attacked me personally, and why you HAVE NOT been able to dispute my truth or my facts? so you are only talking about yourself here.

"DID YOUR MOTHER EVER TEACH YOU HOW TO TALK TO THE OTHER BOYS AND GIRLS?"

-- didn't your mother ever teach you to be fair and honest, and not misportray and misrepresent other people that have different opinions from yours?? well sadly, i guess not.

"I KNOW THIS WILL PISS YOU OFF AND YOU WILL THROW UP ALL OVER YOURSELF AND THE REST OF US ONE MORE TIME"

-- well, it sure looks like you are the one who is desperately "throwing up all over". because nothing you have said so far holds any real substance. its really just a bunch of sour grapes and rubbish because you don't like that other people are skeptical of, and criticise RS and its guru's actions. your are just a loud and unhappy little guy who doesn't like his sacred holy cow laughed at. tough darts.

"WE HAVE LEARNED TO IGNORE YOU AS WE WOULD A RANTING CHILD"

-- who is "WE"?? i've got news for you, you are pretty much alone here. you might have ONE other person, like Ashy, on your side. but he rants even more than you do. so you are just a hypocrite and joke dude. and your shouting by using all caps, is clearly "ranting". you are the one who is "ranting", not i. you have basically made a fool of yourself here.

"MAYBE YOU COULD TRY A LITTLE MORE CIVILITY AND THEN WE MIGHT TAKE YOU A BIT MORE SERIOUSLY."

-- well what exactly was not "civil" in or about my previous comment? if you can't be specific, and show evidence, then no one will take YOU seriously. and thats something you seem to have missed. so like i said, imo, your over-all comment is a joke... and so the joke is really on you.

"A MASTER SHOULD SUPPORT HIMSELF WITH HIS OWN EARNINGS. [...] WE STILL NEED THE FACTS [...] HOW ABOUT YOU WRITE HIM AND ASK HOW HE MAKES A LIVING AND HOW HE RECONCILES THE ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY [...] IS HE TRYING TO RUIN HIMSELF AND HIS FAMILY? IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HEAR WHAT HE HAS TO SAY."

-- you really are incredibly naive aren't you? its quite amazing how much in denial people like you tend to be. not to mention how you like misrepresent other people (like me) who are not foolish believers like you are.

[Robert Searle]

Taras qoute...

Also, couldn't the ' Godly ' prowess of the Guru know that someone would be corrupt before appointing them ?

The answer to your question lies with the seeming claim that Faqir Chand made that he was not omnipresent...even though his disciples experienced inner, and outer "miracles" "from him" ...

[Radha Soami Ji]

Know more about Radha Soami Ji here http://www.radhasoamiji.org/

[Robert Searle]

Yes, my interpretation is from one perspective at odds with RSSB but is largely in agreement with Faqir Chand!

[Roger]

Why the fixation with Faqir Chand? True, I'm developing a fixation with the enlightenment of my neighbor's dog. However, I have my reasons.

[dman]

Just sharing my thougths...first time on the blog.
My father is a third generation initiate, after my great grandmother and grandmother. I am not involved in RSSB or attend their satsangs etc, though I've read their books (including ones authored by Brian),and have observed my own family as an 'outsider' for a long time now.
I feel the 'awareness' of the activities of RSSB is much higher on the outside, in places like this blog itself. On the inside, most of the initiates actually follow RSSB as a religion, with its own rituals: going to local satsangs, going to Guru's satsangs, and going to dera occasionally as a 'pilgrimage' of sorts.
I feel most people don't really understand what they should take away from all these activities. They are told that they should 'believe' in the living embodiment of God that will 'eventually' 'save' them.
In my opinion,this is not very different from objectifying God, which can be worshiped in a physical form, much like the statue in a temple. This is usually the behavior I've witnessed in most satsangs by the Guru.
(I'm not saying the RSSB promotes Guru worship.Even the satsangs also preach not to do so)
'Why do you have to pay that weekly visit to the satsang?' I asked my father. His reply: 'It reminds him of his duties as an initiate.' Well, good enough. 'Do you actually practice what is taught in the RSSB philosophy?' Reply: Just a smile.
Too tough a question, I thought.
Now I don't see how this weekly visit has changed his life in any form, or others in contact with him. He has the same strifes and shortcomings as a person as would anyone else.
If this is the 'usual' and 'common' RSSB initiate, I can understand why the awareness of RSSB's activities (like the ones above) are so low in India. People have fallen in the cycle of performing their weekly chores (and are satisfied at that, not realizing the entire concept is in nature, more intellectual and mental than a mere visit to the satsang every week)
I feel this hoard behavior actually keeps people away from understanding the entire concept of honesty and simplicity and realizing what the RSSB has been upto in recent times. I just hope that they 'think', and respond in some manner.
And thanks Brian, for providing a platform for these discussions. This is what the RSSB should have done long time back.

[Roger]

dman,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

You said,

"I feel most people don't really understand what they should take away from all these activities. They are told that they should 'believe' in the living embodiment of God that will 'eventually' 'save' them."

---Is this "living embodiment of God" training still occuring in 2010? Is the GIHF still alive and well with RSSB?

and

"People have fallen in the cycle of performing their weekly chores (and are satisfied at that, not realizing the entire concept is in nature, more intellectual and mental than a mere visit to the satsang every week)"

---Are you saying that RSSB would be improved and made good by realizing the entire concept is in nature, and made more intellectual and mental? That is, RSSB can be improved and made whole?

I'm not finding fault with your statements. Thanks for a reply. Roger

[Brian Hines]

man, your comment was interesting. I think you've hit on some right-on points about RSSB initiates, which certainly applies to most of the people who belong to other religions and spiritual groups.

Namely, their primary focus isn't theological dogma, but personal relationships and needs. People go to church largely because they enjoy the social contacts, support, conversations, and such. The same is true of satsangis (members of the RSSB organization).

For most of the 35 years I was an active part of RSSB, I dutifully meditated several hours a day, or at least an hour. Yet when I'd go to gatherings, I learned that lots of satsangis didn't meditate at all. Or they'd consider that doing volunteer work ("seva") was more important than meditating, even though the teachings said exactly the opposite.

So you've communicated some important truths in your comment. Thanks for sharing them.

[dman]

Roger, and Brian, thanks for your reply.
I think I can explain further.
"---Is this "living embodiment of God" training still occuring in 2010? Is the GIHF still alive and well with RSSB?"
Well, I don't know about the satsangs. But their books, most of them, use verses from Guru Granth Sahib, and contain plenty of references to the Guru being GHIF.
Secondly, I feel that even though not preached, this concept takes form from the ideas of love/devotion/respect etc. that are blown out of proportion (by followers?). I'll give you an example. My last trip (with my parents of course) to the Dera was about 5 years ago. There were two Satsangs, one in Hindi/Punjabi, and another one in English. In the English satsang, I could find a lot of non-English speaking people, even though they were clearly not understanding a word of what was being said. After about half an hour, some of them dozed off.
The reason why they attended that session was because there was a smaller crowd so they could sit closer to the stage, and see the Guru up close. My point is, does the value of the Satsang lie in just looking at the Guru sitting on the stage OR the stuff he's talking about? Given that these people are there because of their 'love and devotion' for the Guru, no one stops them from attending the satsang. But I feel that 'respect' in all kinds of social/spiritual settings is the respect for someone's ideas and values, not for their bodily presence.(The 'values' part has gone bad with RSSB, it seems).

Which brings me to your second comment.
"---Are you saying that RSSB would be improved and made good by realizing the entire concept is in nature, and made more intellectual and mental?"
I feel it would definitely help. Why is it that a visit to the satsang can now be equated to a visit to a temple/church etc? I think it has got to do something with the way RSSB has been functioning, and how its followers percieve and apply the entire concept.
Consider this. To prove a philosophy/hypothesis, you can conduct an experiment. Mostly, experiments are conducted in a lab because it provides 'controlled conditions'.
The core process of the RSSB 'experiment' here is the meditation, purely mental/intellectual work, and for best results, it should be done in a 'controlled environment'. Maybe RSSB wants to make it more appealing for people by involving the social elements (I'm not sure on that), but its definitely diluting and contaminating the entire 'experimental setup/process'. Such an experiment will obviously give bogus results, which can be explained in the form of satisfaction from chores/rituals and social contacts, support and conversations that Brian mentioned in his comment.
These are just my thoughts on what I think can be done, the 'how' part is another matter.

[Roger]

Hi dman,

What would be the 'experimental setup/process' that could make RSSB improved and undiluted? I'm guessing, this process is the meditation and any open discussions of meditation experiences. Thanks for a reply, Roger

[dman]

Hi Roger,
Yes, it is the meditation ("The core process of the RSSB 'experiment' here is the meditation"). And yes, I think it should be open to discussion, both within the initiates, and the Guru/preachers etc, so that results can be compared, and the 'process' improved if possible.
I'm not an initiate myself. Actually I'm still undecided...

[dman]

Tara,
I'm not concerned with any spiritual aspect of it, but I think on a therapeutic and scientific basis, just for relaxation and reducing stress, it can be given a try. Or any other meditation technique for that matter.
As for Satsangis in general, as discussed in the comments above, being vegetarian and teetotaler are common, many non Satsangis also do that. (I think most Satsangis don't even meditate, as Brian said in his comment. They feel that just the label of being a Satsangi makes them a better person. I feel this elitist assumption is total b.s.)

[Roger]

Tara,

You stated,

"... I was often corrected by RSSB representatives for questioning fellow and older initiates about their spiritual progress."

--Yes, I would agree that this issue is the problem. That said, if any open discussions were allowed, would anything really change in a supposed 'spiritual' process? Meditation experiences are simply one category of various types of experiences. If I tell you that during a meditation experience, I experienced an intense light. What would be the difference in you telling me that you had a more wonderous experience in turning on a 300 watt light bulb in a dark 10' x 10' room? Probably not much, maybe or maybe not.

[dman]

Roger,
I agree with your point. Do you feel it would help if the issue was open to discussion with the 'preachers'? They are supposedly experienced in this, right? I mean, one's experiences are one's own, but maybe there are aspects of the technique that can be improved by taking advice??

[dman]

Roger and Tara,
You seem to be well in touch with the activities of RSSB. May I ask what do you feel about the present situation at RSSB, in relation to their functioning and theology? The feedback I get from my family is obviously not objective, so it would be good to know what's other's stand on this. My comments are directed towards what I think can be improved...or else the situation is already beyond repair...

[Roger]

dman and Tara,

No, I am not an expert on RSSB, and not an initiate or member. My understandings come from reading information off the Internet only. Improvement of RSSB would be like improving any other standard religion. Improvement or reformation is simply what it is. Reading and studying supposed spiritual issues is a hobby for me. Nothing more. The 'preachers' title for RSSB sounds like the standard 'dogma' barkers, one can find in any religion.
As far a relaxing meditation, I have found mowing my front lawn to be very relaxing.
This relaxation activity envolves purchasing a lawn mower. Home Depot have various models to choose from.

[Account Deleted]

Tara
Your post upsets me a lot...........don’t mind I don’t want to give any personel comments but i think so that there is some lack of thrust thats why you de-converted...............

You are talking about the poor farmers have you ever met them? have you have any conversation with them.......i think no...........
so without knowing anything how can you comment on that topic.... I am living in India.....So I know about that…….there is no such issue............

You are talking about earnings and money of Guru ji .....but you didn't know about his charity.......b'coz he didn't want any show off and I am not goonna tell you about that charity because those are secret and meant to remain secret......So never comment on any thing which you don't know.......and you want evidence .....there are many things which rely on thrust If you start trusting may be you start getting the evidence...........First give the the evidence of God,…..do you have….no…..but still we people believe in them……… or who make this universe? how these mountain ,rivers origins……..from where oxygen originated …may be you have evidence of some of the things b'coz you truely starts thrusting on it..i.e. on the scientist who told us about them ………..

I only want to say that if you don't have any thrust on them so there is no use of any discussion on them.....so leave this discussion……and do what ever you like…..and stop hurting others by your word and belives which comes from rumors which doesn’t have any existence in real

".....some Shabads have been put in the ' not to be used ' category. The eye-camps for the poor have been discontinued........."
Shabad are restricted b'coz people start misusing them i.e make there own shabad and start selling them by using the name of RSSB outside the dera premises ………and you don't know some of them are really bad which misleads the wrong messages....they make shabad like a movie songs.......due to which people are starts making of fun of RSSB ……just for earning money many people(non-satsangis) starts doing so...... So to avoid such a situation they restrict them so that people will not buy those wrong things and didn’t waste there money…………
and about the eye-camp I don't know much about that but I know there was some genuine reason for that.......so I never try to know about that……………..

So don't go on anyone talks or rumors ……..he is the person who help us …..teaches us...that how we meet the God(the Creator) and for this he didn’t want even a single peny for this………and He didn’t want any fees for it……… If you go to college the University or college ask for fees before admission…….after getting fees then they will teach you ………..or any other course everyone ask for fees for teaching anything……………….but he didn’t do so…………He always say “just do meditation I only want this thing from you nothing else……….”…….and meditation gives benefit to us not to him but he still always say to do so…………..

I hope you understand……..bye this is my first and last post…….all the best

[tAo]

satsangi,
i'm only too glad you are not going to post here any more. because your one (and supposedly only) comment was about as dumb as it could be, imo. and, you clearly don't know anything about Tara, or about the actual facts... or about anything else for that matter. you are yet another example of how uninformed some satsangis are.

[Roger]

Tara,

If someone 'knows' you, they are still not in a position to judge you. roger

[tAo]

Tara, if you would kindly email me, i would appreciate it. i have a friend, whose home is in northern India, that i would like to put you into contact with. he may be about your age. he is not a satsangi, but his mother is. his mother and father currently live in silcon valley (near san francisco). i will tell you the rest via email. if you send your email to Brian, i am sure he would not mind forwarding that on to me. please include your return email address in the body of your message just to make sure. i will then reply to you directly. tnx

[tAo]

Tara,

Brian may have your email address, but i do not. and i doubt that he would give out your address without specific permission.

so as i said, the easiest thing is for you to simply send an email message to me, via Brian's address, and he can then forward your email on to me.

then i will be able to email back to you directly. comprende?

[Mungos]

Why don't anybody of you go and ask these things Baba himself?

[jon weiss]

Tara:

the eye camps --

heard that people needing that surgery now go to the Beas hospital instead --- safer. (?) Do not have any way to verify this though. Also the wonderful principal eye surgeon (Dr. Pawa - spelling?)passed away a few years ago as well.

[Mungos]

still: Why don't anybody of you go and ask these things Baba himself?

[tucson]

Mungos,

Maybe you can get Baba to speak with us here on this blog so we can ask him questions? Thanks. That would be a great help as it would save all of us airfare to India, waiting in line, sucking up to high ranking sevadars, etc.

[Mungos]

He he ,i am really not capable of doing that. But still i really wonder why these things are not discussed with Baba.I never was in India so only what i have is meditation and my own understanding.

[tucson]

Devotees do not challenge the master, and for those who would or do challenge the master access to him is made very difficult.

[Mungos]

I wonder sometimes i would go and ask and i am not afraid of Baba but other people would probably beat the hell out of me.

[tucson]

Mungos,

I would ask him anyway. This is your life. You must be satisfied the guru is worthy of your devotion, not if you are worthy of his grace.

[Mungos]

I myself am convinced so i do not need asking anybody i just enjoy my freedom having conversation with anybody i want by that i mean i don't mind what people think of me whether here or in sangat.

[Kabir Advani]

@Tara i agree babaji may have said that we shouldnt confuse spirituality with charity even though i havent heard him saying this..but even if he has said it i think its abolutely true..Nanak Sahib and Kabir Sahib have also said it.I would like to share with you a paragraph from Guru Granth Sahib in which Guru Nanak clearly says that there is a huge difference between spirituality and charity!!

the practice of Yoga and righteous conduct;
sagal ti-aag ban maDhay firi-aa.
the renunciation of everything and wandering around in the wilderness;
anik parkaar kee-ay baho jatnaa.
the performance of all sorts of works;
punn daan homay baho ratnaa.
donations to charities and offerings of jewels to fire;
sareer kataa-ay homai kar raatee.
cutting the body apart and making the pieces into ceremonial fire offerings;
varat naym karai baho bhaatee.
keeping fasts and making vows of all sorts
nahee tul raam naam beechaar.
- none of these are equal to the contemplation of the Name of the Lord,
naanak gurmukh naam japee-ai ik baar. ||1||
O Nanak, if, as Gurmukh, one chants the Naam, even once. ||1||
na-o khand parithmee firai chir jeevai.
You may roam over the nine continents of the world and live a very long life;
mahaa udaas tapeesar theevai.
you may become a great ascetic and a master of disciplined meditation
agan maahi homat paraan.
and burn yourself in fire;
kanik asav haivar bhoom daan.
you may give away gold, horses, elephants and land;
ni-ulee karam karai baho aasan.
you may practice techniques of inner cleansing and all sorts of Yogic postures;
jain maarag sanjam at saaDhan.
you may adopt the self-mortifying ways of the Jains and great spiritual disciplines;
nimakh nimakh kar sareer kataavai.
piece by piece, you may cut your body apart;
ta-o bhee ha-umai mail na jaavai.
but even so, the filth of your ego shall not depart.
har kay naam samsar kachh naahi.
There is nothing equal to the Name of the Lord.
naanak gurmukh naam japat gat paahi. ||2||
O Nanak, as Gurmukh, chant the Naam, and obtain salvation. ||2||
man kaamnaa tirath dayh chhutai.
With your mind filled with desire, you may give up your body at a sacred shrine of pilgrimage;
garab gumaan na man tay hutai.
but even so, egotistical pride shall not be removed from your mind.
soch karai dinas ar raat.
You may practice cleansing day and night,
man kee mail na tan tay jaat.
but the filth of your mind shall not leave your body.
is dayhee ka-o baho saaDhnaa karai.
You may subject your body to all sorts of disciplines,
man tay kabhoo na bikhi-aa tarai.
but your mind will never be rid of its corruption.
jal Dhovai baho dayh aneet.
You may wash this transitory body with loads of water,
suDh kahaa ho-ay kaachee bheet.
but how can a wall of mud be washed clean?
man har kay naam kee mahimaa ooch.
O my mind, the Glorious Praise of the Name of the Lord is the highest;
naanak naam uDhray patit baho mooch. ||3||
O Nanak, the Naam has saved so many of the worst sinners. |

[Kabir Advani]

@Tara i agree babaji may have said that we shouldnt confuse spirituality with charity even though i havent heard him saying this..but even if he has said it i think its abolutely true..Nanak Sahib and Kabir Sahib have also said it.I would like to share with you a paragraph from Guru Granth Sahib in which Guru Nanak clearly says that there is a huge difference between spirituality and charity!!

the practice of Yoga and righteous conduct;
sagal ti-aag ban maDhay firi-aa.
the renunciation of everything and wandering around in the wilderness;
anik parkaar kee-ay baho jatnaa.
the performance of all sorts of works;
punn daan homay baho ratnaa.
donations to charities and offerings of jewels to fire;
sareer kataa-ay homai kar raatee.
cutting the body apart and making the pieces into ceremonial fire offerings;
varat naym karai baho bhaatee.
keeping fasts and making vows of all sorts
nahee tul raam naam beechaar.
- none of these are equal to the contemplation of the Name of the Lord,
naanak gurmukh naam japee-ai ik baar. ||1||
O Nanak, if, as Gurmukh, one chants the Naam, even once. ||1||
na-o khand parithmee firai chir jeevai.
You may roam over the nine continents of the world and live a very long life;
mahaa udaas tapeesar theevai.
you may become a great ascetic and a master of disciplined meditation
agan maahi homat paraan.
and burn yourself in fire;
kanik asav haivar bhoom daan.
you may give away gold, horses, elephants and land;
ni-ulee karam karai baho aasan.
you may practice techniques of inner cleansing and all sorts of Yogic postures;
jain maarag sanjam at saaDhan.
you may adopt the self-mortifying ways of the Jains and great spiritual disciplines;
nimakh nimakh kar sareer kataavai.
piece by piece, you may cut your body apart;
ta-o bhee ha-umai mail na jaavai.
but even so, the filth of your ego shall not depart.
har kay naam samsar kachh naahi.
There is nothing equal to the Name of the Lord.
naanak gurmukh naam japat gat paahi. ||2||
O Nanak, as Gurmukh, chant the Naam, and obtain salvation. ||2||
man kaamnaa tirath dayh chhutai.
With your mind filled with desire, you may give up your body at a sacred shrine of pilgrimage;
garab gumaan na man tay hutai.
but even so, egotistical pride shall not be removed from your mind.
soch karai dinas ar raat.
You may practice cleansing day and night,
man kee mail na tan tay jaat.
but the filth of your mind shall not leave your body.
is dayhee ka-o baho saaDhnaa karai.
You may subject your body to all sorts of disciplines,
man tay kabhoo na bikhi-aa tarai.
but your mind will never be rid of its corruption.
jal Dhovai baho dayh aneet.
You may wash this transitory body with loads of water,
suDh kahaa ho-ay kaachee bheet.
but how can a wall of mud be washed clean?
man har kay naam kee mahimaa ooch.
O my mind, the Glorious Praise of the Name of the Lord is the highest;
naanak naam uDhray patit baho mooch. ||3||
O Nanak, the Naam has saved so many of the worst sinners. |

[Nietzsche]

If guru Nanak thought it was better to chant the name of the lord in stead of helping his disciples you would not have a name to chant at all :)

[Nietzsche]

Still wondering where all this money comes from. I don't hear people donating so much more nowadays. Also can't believe that increased efficiency pays out so much. So where does the money to buy all these assets come from? Or am I missing something?

[Kabir Advani]

@Nietzsche-seems like you havent read the paragraph properly:)a guru is not here to help his disciples in a financial way or to solve his worldly problems but to attach his disciple to the name of lord..

[Kabir Advani]

@Tara-The eye camps have been discontinued but the people who need a surgery are sent to the dera hospital and the surgery is done FREE OF COST as it is safer and better as compared to eye camps...Please make your facts clear before arriving to conclusions..you can confirm with the Dera hospital about it if u wish to..

[Nietzsche]

@Kabir Okay the guru should help spiritual and not by giving food and the like. But I also read somewhere that the guru should not accept any donations from the disciples. And if he does (which meens that the disciple is helping the guru financial) he should at least find ways to give it to the people that need it most. Seems even like common sense to me regardless if guru Nanak said it or not. And if RSSB gets this money through donations it seems not right to me that they just pile it up like Dagobert Duck in the famous strip stories. Seems like Gurinder is reading Dagobert more than he reads Nanak :)

[DJ]

Tara,
You obviously don't "know your facts well" regarding why the Eye Camp was stopped at the Dera-All Eye Camps in Punjab State were banned in 2003-2004! Here's a quote from the Dera Sachkhand Bal website:

"Around the year 2003-04 the Punajb Govenment stopped all eye operations being carried out in the field. It was mandatory for all eye operations to be conducted only in well-equipped operation theatres of the hospital. As a result of these orders during the eye camps at the Dera only eye check-up was done and for operations the patients had to be shifted to Sant Sarwan Dass Charitable Hospital at Adda Kathar. Shri Swaran Bangar was not fully satisfied with this arrangement becouse he had a deep attachment to the Dera. So he requested Sant Niranjan Dass Ji to build an eye hospital at the Dera himself and at the same time offered to give a personal donation of Rs. 1,00,01,111 (One Crore One Thousand One Hundred and Eleven Rupees). As a result of his initiative Maharaj Ji acceded to his request and laid the foundation stone of the Sant Sarwan Dass Charitable Eye Hospital at Dera Sachkhand Bal on 10-11-2004."

http://sachkhandballan.net/main.php?page=Sant_Sarwan_Dass_Eye_Charitable_Hospital_Ballan

Another canard bites the dust!

[Nietzsche]

I thought guru kwakwak was the dug ? :)

[Radha Soami]

Radha Soami Ji,Radha Soami its an Pious word in itself..May God bless you all..

[Radhasoami ji]

your mind would always divert you to illusions.. and would take away far from realising truth & just finding faults...

Believe in the Lord, have complete faith in him and then see how he is always always with you in your every moment..

may God bless you all..

[abc]

Please leave at least this pious spritual area from your materialistic, critical comments.. thanks.

[Blogger Brian]

Radhasoami Ji, which God is blessing me? Christian god, Muslim god, HIndu god, Jewish god? Some other God?

Likewise, which of these "Lord's" should I believe in? You left out some crucial information in your comment.

[Mike Williams]

Hi Radhasoami ji ,

The method of trusting in
the Lord does not work. I have
seen the radiant forms in ALL
Radhasoami groups give horrible advice
to the diciples,
often destroying the persons life.

These people often slink away
into the darkness and are never
seen again.

It is very sad.

The Guru trusts in money. The disciple
trusts in false hope.

I live in a state of having no hope
at all.

But, I would rather live with no hope,
because I have to remain true to myself.

From the base of no belief, one
can look out on the world with
clear eyes.

The world of reality.

[jon weiss]

Mike you wrote:

"have seen the radiant forms in ALL
Radhasoami groups give horrible advice
to the diciples, often destroying the persons life."

Could you flesh that out a little? Examples?

Did you SEE the Radiant forms giving the advice, or just talk with people who claimed they chatted with a Radiant Form? They could'a been crazy beforehand.

[Mike Williams]

Hi Jon Weiss,

The story of radiant forms is quite
interesting. Especially since I belonged
to all the RS groups.

But, there are Sant Sat Gurus from
other lineages. They use Krishna
as the mediatation form. Any idea or
conception of Krishna is just fine.
The Sants from Bridraban, I should say.

So, one day when I was young, I got
initiated by one Sant Sat Guru and
meditated on Krishna. The image came to
life and started dancing around to my
astonishment.

Then all of a sudden, a dog barked outside.
The image of Krishna turned into a
dancing dog.

So, I learned early on, the Radiant form
was a mental projection. It never fooled
me again after that.

When I was initiated by Prof. Dr. Agam Mathur, RS Guru at Pipal Mandi, great
grandson of Salig Ram, he told
me to use Salig Ram as my master.

And guess what ?

But, I knew by this time, the tricks
of the mind. No matter how fantastic,
they were all mental creations.

The most remarkable radiant form was
that of Ram Chandra, pranahuti master.
No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't
get it to go away. Yet, with this group,
your not even supposed to see the radiant form. That form gave me remarkable predictions that were all correct. Still,
I dismissed it.

But, the Radiant form can very definitely
be felt as real. I have seen several Kirpal
group people loose their spouses caused by
the radiant form. Their spouses usually
thought they had gone nuts and in fact
were correct.

But, the worst case was a Charan initiate,
a woman. Nicest person you would ever want
to meet. She talked with the Radiant form
all day long. Her husband left her with
two kids and no money.

She was always late to work because the Radiant form told her not to worry about it.
She lost her job and I got her another.
Again, the radiant form told her not
to worry about being late. She was fired again. At any rate, she ended up getting married to a major Beas rep. and I went
to their wedding. Guess what. He had been
married three times before !! Guess why ?
So, you might say this was a match made in heaven (grin).

Your assumption the people whom see the radiant form are nuts is true. But, you
only go nuts if you believe the radiant
form is real, or if you believe what you are
seeing is real.

Quite honestly, I don't know how any
rational person can believe for long
the radiant form is real.

The masts wander around India in a daze
because they think they see God.

[Jon Weiss]

Mike --

An amazing palate of experiences.

My guess would be that you had unusual experiences before you started your long and comprehensive journey through the acres and ashrams of so many gurus??

I wonder if some disciples all too gladly and eagerly assume that their prideful imaginings are a holy interior presence? Not that they mistake a meditation induced "Radiant Form" for Real, but rather they really never had such experience(s) at all, but rather convinced themselves that certain imaginings and emotional fervor were the same thing. Children sometimes believe the sun is following them around.

When you experienced these Radiant Forms were they also accompanied by Sound? Did you concentrate on a certain (inner) Sound and then experience these Radiant Form(s)??

Not many people actually experience anything extraordinary in meditation. Both you and David Lane are valuable in this regard. The two of you might consider cooperating--- and venture to transform this religion of inner experience into a real science. !

[Mike Williams]

Hi Jon,

I believe inner experiences are not real.

But, I believe there are some states of
being that are. There is no way to put
into words a state of being.

I have known David Lane maybe 18 years.
My Bachelor of Science in Accounting comes
from the very school he teaches at now.

We used to send each other books and talk
to each other on the phone long before
these clubs began.

Yet, our personalities are very much
different, yet I agree with David Lane
on our conclusions. Today I am 59 years old.

I also knew historians Maheswari and Agam Mathur.

My long jouney was as a seeker. Nothing
else.

It seems I lived through the Golden Age
of Gurus. So many Gurus, so little time ?

And, my business had me traveling the world
at the time. And, these Gurus would travel
out of India to Europe and America.

I believe most Gurus are insane. In fact,
a 'good' Guru must be insane. That's why I
hesitated getting initiated by Charan, he
obviously was not insane.

A 'good' guru had a very mysterious look,
which I took to mean as Godliness.

Now that I am older, I realize it was insanity.

If a person walks through an insane asylum,
the residents will have the same look
on their faces surely.

So, I spent my life getting advice from
insane people. Not Godmen.

I was young and naive and very foolish.

My conclusion is inner experience is absolutely
worthless. Makes a person no better than they
were before they had them. Just like the Gurus
are no better and hide their faults.

Inner experience does not change character.
It does not create a better world.

Inner experience is the carrot before the donkey.

So, Gurus are insane and inner experience is
worthless.

Where did this get me ? No where.

Absolutely no where.

So, my message is, don't follow in my foolish
footsteps. You people will never be able to
duplicate my journey.

Do the simple things in life. Take walks.
Go to the movies. Read a book.

And, thank fortune you are safe at home.

[Mike Williams]

The Criminally Insane

Has not India unleashed its criminally
insane upon the earth ?

The Asylum doors have been thrown
open by a freak storm.

The Great Madmen have given us God.

And, if we are lucky, we can sit
at the right hand of these Madmen
in heaven.

Is it not time for a cattle drive ?

Is it not time these Wildmen to be herded
back in the corral ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMfMXCyr9z0

[Mike Williams]

"Well, India is the " holiest " land on earth and it is also the most corrupt !"
quote Tara

Your posts are very good Tara. To my mind
being the holiest country means the exact
same as the most corrupt.

The terms are not mutually exclusive,
....... they are kissing cousins.

[Dogribb]

Right Tara...few if any RSSB folks have anything significant to show for their years of devotion.Thats why so much magical thinking and emphasis on talk about Masters hand in their worldly affairs substitutes for REAL PROGRESS...lol.

[jon weiss]

Tara - thank you for your interesting post.

Always assumed that "spiritual progress" would upgrade each personality. Not through emphasis, but just naturally. How can one be lifted from the dregs of karma and NOT become a more refined, loving, and deLightful person?

[Cooltwista]

Just shut up all of you..
there is nothing such about RSSB connected to Religare and that land issue...
It's not all your business to see what and how they do..
when you are not sure what is there in real and just don't bark anything about anybody...

[tucson]

Coolwista:

I think it is sensible and incumbent upon every potential and current devotee of Gurinder Singh to know exactly what their Sat Guru is up to in his business dealings. They should delve deeply into the matter and find out why a guru who decries this creation is so involved in business affairs pertaining to it.

[Gunther]

You know, the time you are wasting in futile chatter could be spent in meditation in order to get to know yourselves. All the answers are within you, but you search for them outside. Dont worry about anothers dealings. Deal with yourself.

[Blogger Brian]

Gunther, so why are you spending time on the Internet searching for web sites/blogs to complain about? Why are you worrying about what other people say? Perhaps you should take your own advice and deal with yourself before you try to control other people.

Remember: one person's "futlle chatter" is another person's "enjoyable conversation."

[Osho Robbins]

gunther,
You wrote: the time you are wasting in futile chatter could be spent in meditation in order to get to know yourselves.

What makes you think that sitting down repeating five meaningless words for hours on end will somehow tell you anything about yourself?

All it will really tell you is that you're a friggin idiot.

You do this for years on end - and get no results - it is insane to think that something will suddenly change and the heavens will open up and Sat Purush will shower his grace.

Especially as he is actually a fictional character - and is not real.

Meditation is only designed to tire the mind according to the current RSSB master.

The teachings have been upgraded. You need an upload.
full details here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm2eweEr_50

[Roger]

"Remember: one person's "futlle chatter" is another person's "enjoyable conversation."

--This passage was so funny. Thanks for making me laugh so hard, this Saturday morning.

[Nina]

RSSB has done a lot for the Sangat, all over the world not just India. Many people often view them with ignorance because they have not actually gone to see how the Sangat actually is. I am not a follower but attended satsang with a friend once or twice and have seen the passion the satsangis have for their beliefs. Most of them attend their own religious venues along with satsang on sunday. They have learned to be spiritual while keeping ties with their true religious roots. The satsangi's openly donate money because they believe in the teachings. It is the same as Church collection baskets, or fees paid at the synagogue. Everyone profits, the money is used to improve these venues. Radha Soami Satsang Beas do not focus only to improve the lives of the followers in India but around the world. Satsangi's love the venues, because they are a place where they can go to forget their worldy problems. If any of you ever get the chance, attend a satsang weekend like I have. You will experience a sense of calm, that you can't get on a daily basis. One should experience and learn about all aspects that influence the beliefs and actions of others before stating your opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but it's better to follow the phrase "Think before you speak."

[Account Deleted]

nina tara is not much aware of rssb activities,what all she says is her personal hatred for rs path and rs followers,
she has no accurate knowledge and true facts with her,
but then she will take you long way discussing her blah blah blah,
and at last she anyhow gains satisfactions,
but you will gain nothing.
actually she is a silly lady just pouring out her hatred for rssb,
because she got initiated with a sense of guarantee that she will see inner world,
which right now doesnt exist for her,and the same world once seemed reality for her,
so nina,
these bloggers will talk against duality,but they themselves are dual personalities.
one will flaunt and say i have spent 35
years and the result is i m here,
well but yes,if you too has started doubting the path,seeing with your own dual point of views,
if you too lost faith,think rude bad about your master,
if you are also diluted,upset,irritated,frustrated,unable to progress(because of your own lacking),
and think that you are wasting your time with RSSB,then perhaps here you will have a company,
you can waste lot of time here,talking to them for the topics(which makes no sense)and most have them have no meanings.

and a point to be noted,
most of the regular bloggers are old people,with retirement,have ample of time,
as may be they have been rejected by the society,family and friends.

so nina choice is yours.
According to this blog-either waste your time with RSSB
or according to rssb-waste your time here in this blog.

[tAo]

Oh yeah!
Tara and me, we got us some...
♫ ♫ ♫ !!! SATTISFACTTION !!! ♫ ♫ ♫
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zylJUbqIggo

[Mike Williams]

Outside the Box

We think when we die our consciousness
dies.

But, could there be something completely
different from consciousness, we couldn't
even dream of ?

If this existed , how could we use
it in our logic, if we don't even
know, or suspect it ?

Something no philosopher, or preacher,
has even speculated on.

[Mungos]

Than maybe Mike that cannot be realized with mind maybe that can be realized by It self and maybe informs the mind that it was realized even before.

[Moongoes]

Mike?

[Rhea]

Describe the beauty of the sun to a blind, will he/she ever know?
Bitterness, Cacophony and ignorance.. Tara, Tao and the "gang", i only have sympathy for all of you.
I do not know what personal experiences drive this rant tara, i have been with the sect for the past two years, i consider myself rational and beyond obsessive idolisation and i have access to the internal goings on because i know people who work for sensitive departments like income tax. I will not be stooping down to defend anyone against nameless faceless, handful squad of suspicious people. If RSSB does not react or talk about all the activities it undertakes does not mean what all you question and claim is true. This is a one sided "intellectual sounding" hate blog. And trust me, it will not detract the true seeker because faith, like love, cannot prosper if countered with futile arguments and hatred.
May love, peace, belief come to you and hopefully you devote your time to more meaningful activities and personal progress rather than spread hatred and bitterness at limited forums like these.

[Rhea]

My comment does not get posted, scared? So all this is a well mechanised BIG LIE to mislead? That is not so difficult to guess, hypocrites!

[Brian Hines]

Rhea, open your eyes (to many things). Your comment was posted; it's right above the comment where you complain about it not being posted.

Lesson: don't believe that you know something unless you have proof that what you think you know is true. Which means, consider whether you have proof of your religious beliefs.

[Rhea]

Brian, are you suggesting a person who lacks faith can convince/lead others to believe??
And my not seeing my comment is just a case of missing the "More comments" tab, what you are doing is taking it to another paradigm and hence judging me on something which at best is an oversight.
Do you begin to see yourself even a little more clearly?
Again, i do not wish to engage with a useless activity on a pretty useless blog.
I will not be responding to anymore comments, and if you are intelligent enough, you will take the cue.
Keep the faith.

[Brian Hines]

Rhea, my point (which you seem to have missed also) was that if you could be wrong about a simple easily checked blog comment, you also could be wrong about the truthfulness of your religious beliefs.

Instead of asking "Has my blog comment been posted?" you jumped to a conclusion. Likewise, you could be asking, "Are my religious beliefs true?" instead of rigidly defending them. Something to think about.

Openness to new ideas and a willingness to entertain the possibility you could be wrong is a virtue, not a vice.

[Rhea]

Brian, i believe everything in life boils down to happiness. THIS makes you happy. THAT makes me happy, let us stick to our individual beliefs and what makes us happy. What you claim, however cleverly and with whatever "legitimate" arguments, might not be enough to shake my and us other lower gullible mortals faith in out individual experiences, and i trust you being "open" will not further question our beliefs. Let us leave it at that, i don't think the earlier hint was enough for ya ;)

[Brian Hines]

Rhea, if you keep leaving comments on my blog, that's a hint to me that you want a response.

I completely agree that everyone has individual beliefs which make them happy. What I don't agree with is the idea that a personal individual belief should be accepted as a universal truth, without proof.

That's what organized religion is: a collection of people with individual beliefs who band together and try to claim that a bunch of unproven individual beliefs can add up to a universal truth that should be accepted by other people.

Nobody is asking you to give up your individual experiences. That's impossible. All we have are our experiences. But some are individual and subjective, while others reflect a communal and objective reality. Wisdom is knowing the difference.

[Rhea]

Brian, i can see you thrive on being argumentative, having the last word on "YOUR" blog is very important, isn't it?
It is you who is missing the point entirely. Do what you want to, what you have to, no one is stopping you, no one can stop you. But stop being irresponsible, spreading hatred unless you have an axe to grind.. which indicates there is more to your experiences than meets the eye here.
And trust me, i am not here to get a response from someone i had no idea existed a few hours ago. I am not that vain :)
Also, i am very happy RSSB completely ignores fools like you, they have better things to do.

[Brian Hines]

Rhea, I'm happy to let you have the last word, so I'm not going to leave a response to your comment.

Oops! I just did! Damn.

OK, don't read this. Ignore it. Then you'll feel like you had the last word.

But as long as I'm writing... I'm not spreading hatred. And you'd be surprised how often I get emails from RSSB initiates who thank me for being honest.

They feel much the same way as I do -- churchless -- and are pleased that others have come to the same conclusion about what is true, and what isn't, as they have.

Yes, we are individuals with our own beliefs. But we are also social creatures with a need for belonging. Religious people have their churches; I started this blog because I saw a need for non-religious people to have their own churchless "church."

[Robert Paul Howard]

June 05, 2012 at 2:00 AM:
"I will not be responding to anymore comments...."

June 05, 2012 at 10:49 AM:
further response made.

It seems that one just can't have faith in much of anything that someone says/writes/asserts.

Robert Paul Howard

[Rhea]

What i can surely conclude from this exchange is that you are a loser. And very very vain, which is contrary to your claim of being "objective" and "rational" :)
When it comes being "social creatures" go to a courtroom, thieves and murderers also find sympathisers!
However, i wish you luck, keep spreading the good, oops, the bad word and i hope you find "your" truth, whatever it is.

[Rhea]

OMG, Tara, the heroine of the blog, the angry young (read old, decaying and disillusioned)woman herself takes out the time to respond!! But you seem to have all the time in the world and this seems to be an all consuming passion, kudos for that.

I have read quite a few of your comments and i must say i am fascinated. Where do you get all this anger and hatred and paranoia from? (Oh, please ignore that, i do not wish to know)

So many times your ire is directed against hapless people, who do not know or understand the language, they do not even respond to most of your detest(haha). Talk to them in their native language and in all probability you will end up in an asylum and might die of shame!

I surrender to you tara, i am not going to respond to your pointwise, inline comments.
I do not have it in me..

You get what you seek, i hope you reach greater heights.....or depths, whatever.

P.S- I would suggest a visit to the psychiatrist, will help.

[tAo]

Rhea has diarrhea.

Tara has friends...
http://www.playdvd.ru/playdvd_images/product/13726b.jpg

[Rhea]

And tao is the part of a cocky presumptuous constipated, mutual admiration gang LOL

[Rhea]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, this is too good, so many people revealing themselves to be such asses at one go! Awesome fun for two days, thank you guys!

Tara, i am not at all surprised, while your blame is suspect, what is more important is, you still need therapy. For you, I can do it for free. Ummm, actually sorry, i wouldn't.

And however strong might be the temptation of the occasional glee one would get by taking all the four of you down singlehandedly, piece by piece, i am unwilling to increase the google ranking of a dismal site by coming back here again and again, so miss me :)

[Roger]

"cocky presumptuous constipated, mutual admiration gang"

---this gang has no information on fiber in one's diet?

[NC]

Rhea, How come all of your comments are about stopping the hatred on this site, but you say nothing positive about the RS you are trying to defend?
If you pay attention most people who have a 'negative' perspective of RS on this site, don't do it for fun and giggles. Most are--sorry were satsangis themselves and speak from experience. What they have seen, experienced,and understood. So unless you have something to refute that, your criticism doesn't make sense here.

[neeraj v]

i am not initiated yet, have been dabbling with it for some time and hence have been attending satsangs on a regular basis.
i don’t subscribe to or understand many things claimed on this blog, they (rssb) have never scared or forced or cited any "laws" which when flouted doom you to hell. i have never heard the word “hell” in my entire experience. what i perceive is a lot of honesty, love and acceptance for all religions and the universality of a single truth. they ask you to question, debate and not follow the path unless you are fully convinced, with them or anyone else you think is worthy of you and whom you are comfortable with. as a matter of fact the first book i was given to read cites everything ugly said/written about rssb (“jigyasuon ke liye”). this requires conviction, a lot of it.
they are not self propagating, they completely steer clear of it, pictures are not encouraged since that leads to sort of idol worship, you are encouraged to go within and experience the bliss firsthand. i am aware of many csr activities they undertake which isn’t hearsay, they just don’t talk about it, the purpose is to alleviate suffering and not showcase it like a trophy.
you seek and if you like what you see, you are on the path, if not, you opt out, it is entirely your choice. i have personally heard GSD many times and heard him repeatedly say that the spiritual relationship is that of love and not anger or vindication and has no space for any fear. i don’t see GSD in the light that you do, most of us don't. most of my experiences have been in uk and the interactions have been very blissful and calming, i have never felt anything like this before. every interaction leaves me elated and happy.
when i read your blog, i find a lot of double standards in your stance, you get away with almost any crime, you vent out your frustrations, call anyone willy nilly anything you wish to and then go ahead and shoot others down citing them as cultish and a fundamentalist, just because they are within the rssb folds. this is one sided hypocrisy.
it is just like if you cannot own a mercedes you refuse to recognize its existence.

[neeraj v]

01.wine or any such substance that affects your neural system is discouraged since that will interfere with your meditation and i don't think that requires any debate.
02. i have attended satsangs in india as well and while literature mentions kaal in a mythological sense when it describes the antecedents of creation, GSD never mentions it in is discourses. for that matter do you have any proof it does not exist? and kaal has never been described as the bulldozer, it is just the other side of the coin, the duality. what you should definitely be scared of is what you dish out, that is something that's gonna come back to you for sure. is justice something you don't believe in?
03. i am quite sick and tired of reilgare being mentioned here, time and again, the repetition is monotonous, why would he not ensure his and his family's comfort? somebody close to him, gifting it away to him and his sons (one of whom is an employee of religare too), how is that wrong? the dealing is fair/unfair, you guys have no concrete proof either, so let us leave it at that.
03. discussion of your spiritual progress, if you face problems, is encouraged, i am witness to a long long description of this girl's inward experiences which she discussed at length with GSD in a huge public gathering. what is not encouraged is unnecessary discussions which would convert it to an FB like life when you do everything so that you can post it on your FB page. it takes away the stillness, the real purpose of why you are doing what you are, which is for the sheer joy of it, not so that people can admire you.
05. maybe they have, my parents have been initiated too, i have never felt it was propagating in the first place. making people aware that there could be more to life than the immediate experiences will not qualify as self propagation, i would term it as social service.
06. photos are sold so that you can keep the image of the guru in your mind when you meditate, something they actively encourage you to do, the love for the physical image precedes the spiritual. it should end at some point in time so that you can move to the next level. that progress is different for different people.
07. no, you need a living master to take you there and rssb never says "come to us". it can be anyone who has achieved and hence is in a position to give. i mean you don't expect a beggar to dole you out gold coins now, do you? again, to quote GSD, i have heard him sort out a young christian british man's dilemma to not go against his religion, b'cause if that's where his quest leads him, that's where he should go.
08. i am not in a position to comment on that since i have not seen that page to begin with.
10. fearlessness is a subjective personal individual trait. it isn't discouraged, for sure, if that answers your question. being aware of your own karmas and its consequences is always discussed for reasons i have quoted above.

i have attended a couple of satsangs in india, the content is tailored for the audience here, i mean you don't expect a teacher to start teaching grad content to a 7 year old now, do you? if creating awareness (they have been actively encouraging organ donation and have strongly come down upon female infanticide) is somehow not right in your eyes, please feel free to strike this off too.

[Moongoes]

The moment you shift the conversation to God ... you can pretend to know things you absolutely and obviously cannot know

[tt]

even terms like absolute and obvious are subjective but experiences that are consistent across times and regions and people and religions cannot be lies and are the only objective and refutable truths that stand the test of time. read up before you pass uneducated silly comments.

[Blogger Brian]

tt, so what are those "objective and irrefutable truths" that every religion agrees on? Please enlighten me as to what they are.

I must indeed be very uneducated and silly, since I'm under the impression that Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and the other world religions are very different from each other.

But if you can show how they are the same, this should resolve a lot of strife among the religions. So please share with us the objective and irrefutable truths that apparently only you know.

[tt]

This dish you need to cook up yourself. First of all, please read up the Bhakti movement in India, experiences of Mira, Guru Nanak, Bhulleshah, Kabir, the correctly interpreted experiences and teachings of Jesus, the Koran- Islam, and totally unrelated but relevant- "Many Lives Many Masters" by Dr Brian Weiss. And lastly, stop presuming, I don't remember calling YOU silly.

[Blogger Brian]

tt, as I suspected you couldn't back up your words. Guess they are only that: words. Suggestion: know what you're talking about before you make dogmatic claims.

As for your reading suggestions, thanks -- but I'm already familiar with your spiritual buddies. Anyway, books aren't reality, something you should keep in mind.

Anyone can claim anything about God and all things divine. Backing up those claims with demonstrable evidence of divinity, that's a hell of a lot tougher.