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May 15, 2010

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The other problems with Pascal's Wager are:

a) If you decide that believing is the better choice, can you *really* MAKE yourself genuinely believe in something when you know you're doing it with an ulterior motive? And;

b) Wouldn't the divine being know that you were disingenuous and, therefore, not give you the valuable bonus prizes?

Steven, great points. They further reduce the odds of a winning religious bet.

When I went to make a comment here, I learned more about the insidiousness of facebook which I joined last year and might come to regret. Anyway to comment without being typepad signed in seems to work fine but if I use it, I connect whatever I say elsewhere. facebook is becoming very invasive.

Anyway to the comment, I thought what your above thinker thought-- you can't fake it and if this is a game to fool people into choices that they don't really believe in, we cannot win. We have to live honestly whatever that means. No way to fake it out. In the case of believing in a god, I think it is separate from religion. Religion requires an action, believing in god might not. It might be fine to believe and continue to live a life as truthfully as we know. Religion is the one that puts out these threats. Since I think all religions can be shown to be going bad directions, the question of what to do seems pretty obvious until some new piece of information comes to change it-- live true to oneself and if that means not believing, then that's just how it is. If it was believing, then comes what to do about it but it's a different question.

We should accept that we don't know everything about the creation of the universe.

Since science has this honesty to declare that it is yet to unravel all mystery, it has strenthens our trust on it.

It is ludicrous that religions, which lack basic knowledge of geography, talk about our
Creator.

My comment is not directly related to the topic of the post, but its very important information that i would like to get out there and share with readers. [and please pass it on if you like.] so i hope that Brian will permit it to stay up. i am posting it at other sites as well.

Also, regarding belief in God... we had better damn well hope that God exists and can help us out of this one, because the world is in a hell of a pickle this time...

My friends, we are on the brink of unimaginable disaster, if not indeed over the edge already. The effects of the oil well blowout may quite possibly be nothing short of devastating on a global scale, unless we can somehow mitigate it. The engineers and other workers are doing their best, but hope is faint and the clock is ticking. If ever we needed a miracle on this planet, this is the time.

--please read more here:

The Murder of the Gulf and the Death of the World -- A Knife in the Planet's Jugular:

http://moonslurpies.blogspot.com/2010/05/murder-of-gulf-and-death-of-world.html

--and especially here:

Oil Rig Gusher is a Disaster of Great Magnitude -- detailed information on the mind boggling oil disaster:

http://donzurdo.blogspot.com/2010/05/oil-rig-gusher-is-disaster-of-great.html


"God" is just a concept...like any other. I suppose some label "God" one concept, and others, another concept. All concepts are relative, and inherently liable to be false...although it's endlessly diverting to indulge in them!

the greatest arguement for not believing in god is surely the theory of evolution.

the evidence for evolution is just far too great to even be debatable and from so many different sources.

and the problem with evolution if its understood deeply is that it shows we are merely one of many lifeforms and animal species on one planet. the traces of our ancestry are found in the fossil records, in vestidual remnants of our bodies and in our molecular DNA.

why then do we associate our own species as somehow having its own god, when we are merely another animal, without a particularly long-lived history, and given sufficient time will evolve into something quite different.

I just it strange that if there were a personal god having some great plan for each and all of us, why he's gone to such great lengths to make evolutionary development appear so unintelligent and so poorly designed.

We, and all the others remnants, all have these anatomical vestigual remnants that are of no use often hinder us, but they still exist and as such they indicate how we've evolved not by some great design but on an ad-hoc basis.

So why would a god who is capable of intervening or controlling our affairs, setup a system which looks so unintelligent and random?

George, I heartily agree. I suppose there are theological explanations for why a divine creator would go through 14 billion years of universe big bang "evolution" and some 4 billion years of earthly life evolution to arrive at...us!

But it sure seems that we aren't special. Americans like to think we are, though. Consider yourself fortunate that you don't live in a country where a politician actually campaigns by accusing his opponent that he doesn't believe in evolution and the inerrancy of the Bible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJG-7s1e5eM&feature=player_embedded

I've heard that this wouldn't be a big vote getter in Europe.


"....it's crazy to waste our one and only existence on the pursuit of what doesn't exist: God, spirit, soul, heaven."

On the other hand, "wasting" one's rare and fleeting time exhorting others to adopt your personal worldview might seem every bit as crazy to others...

How do you know the endeavor is a valuable use of your time? In an utterly meaningless and accidental cosmos, how does one reliably assign a value to ANYTHING, much less hold any reasonable expectation that any of the other accidental lumps of temporarily animated matter ought to share your transient and pointless beliefs as well?

Oh, oh, I just used all caps. That's not a good sign, is it?

Brian, you ask some good questions. Here's one answer: one ALL CAPS word per Internet entry is acceptable to the cosmos. (I decided to tempt fate by using two; if I die in my sleep tonight, you'll know the reason why.)

All I do on this blog -- because it's all any of us can do -- is express how I see things. Someone else's results may differ. Results aren't guaranteed.

From my point of view, which for some reason makes a heck of a lot of sense to me, exhorting others to spurn religion seems like a worthwhile activity because I know that (1) I exist and (2) my exhortees exist.

So at least I'm engaged in an activity involving two existents. People who pursue God, spirit, soul, and heaven don't know if what they're seeking even exists. Running after a chimera strikes me as less satisfying from chasing down a reality.

But, hey, each to his own. I can't even get my dog to fetch a stick reliably, so I'm under no (or at least not much) illusion that this blog is making lots of people drop religiosity.

Brian,

yeah you guys have some mad buggers, but then again so does everyone, they dont get much madder than the hitler after all, produced by the europeans.

The suffering and pain are always obligatory for wide consciousness and deep heart

check this debate out http://theresurgence.com/2012/01/17/the-great-debate-does-god-exist

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