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April 29, 2010

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What about a bad LSD trip? It seems like the damage done would outweigh any supposed benefits.
A close friend of mind did LSD throughout high school, she had one bad trip and developed severe panic disorder and PTSD as a result. It's irresponsible to ignore the bad effects of LSD. You're putting yourself in a position where you don't have the normal defenses that you would in a threatening situation that is real.

The way I see it is that for most of us life (reality) is illusorily perceived. There is nothing to change but our perception of it (this), but our habitual way of seeing things is deeply ingrained. Hence all the practices, disciplines and meditations that are devised to break us free of this constriction.

Sometimes, psychotropic substances can be a catalyst for this change by jolting us out of our ruts and giving us the opportunity to perceive differently. So, I agree with Mark Morford that use of these drugs can produce permanent beneficial effects.

This is nothing new. Turn on, tune in, drop out has been around a long time. Long before Leary and Alpert, although I would leave out the "drop out" part. For me it would be turn on, tune in and drop in.

I used to be an outsider to my life. That is, there was me and there was the world. Now, more often I feel I am the world, in/as the world, or being the world, and this thing "me" drops away except when it's necessary to be a "me" in order to do things like describing "my" experiences on this blog or telling "my" attorney how "I" want certain documents to read.

But PG has a good point. These drugs are unpredictable as to how they are going to affect you. There are no guarantees. While I had a few very good trips, I also had many garden variety trips and one bad one. Fortunately I didn't leap off a building or anything like that and the bummer ended with no lasting effects. So, this is not a 100% endorsement of certain substances. LSD in particular is damaging physically, but maybe if your mantra just isn't cutting it for you these days maybe a little psylocybe mexicana could be just what the DR. ordered.

PG, you obviously know zip about lsd. people who have bad trips do so because they already have underlying problems.

you said: "you don't have the normal defenses that you would in a threatening situation". i would much disagree. you obviously don't know much abiut lsd. have you ever taken genuine lsd? and if so, how many times? from the looks of your comment, i doubt that you have. and if you haven't ever taken lsd, then what makes you assume that you have any knowledge or insight about the effects of lsd?

also, how do you know that it was actually pure lsd that your friend was taking? as a matter of fact, lsd mixed with other drugs like amphetamines can produce severe panic.

from time to time i hear this same sort of thing from fearful people like you. and more often than not, it turns out that the person talking about lsd has never actually taken lsd.

virtually all of those who have taken lsd, who are mature and stable minded to begin with, have very good experiences. also, the mindset and the setting in which a person takes lsd can be very crucial. immature adolescents (like your friend) tend to take lsd in very bad locations like parties and rock concerts and in cities, and not in nature or in quiet harmonious settings. and that's just downright dumb. so its no wonder they end up with bad trips.

Yes, tAo is right about LSD. Much "street" LSD is impure with other substances added. Same with other street drugs. Dealers often couldn't care less about your welfare, only that they have a product that gets you high so that you won't come after them for a refund or worse. I would say 90% of the LSD I took (back in the 60's) was this type. Finally, I got some that was manufactured for a university study and the difference was profound.

Also, one needs to be stable mentally in the first place and in a good setting as tAo explained. One friend who gradually became schizophrenic as he entered his college years took some LSD and was never the same, in a bad way.

So, this stuff is not to be trifled with and should be approached with respect, clear intent, and proper preparation.

I would very much like to pop a few psychadelics, but am worried that i would then start chopping up folk into little bits.

I think perhaps LSD has been discarded by mainstream conservative science all too easily and given an overly bad rep, for a substance that potentially has great uses, especially for terminal patients.

However, it remains a powerful substance and even ppl like Tucson have bad trips. Human physiology is a pretty complicated beast, and i guess the only thing that has stopped me, is that if your brain chemistry is altered in some fashion and this is done so permanently - what a price to pay if you are a healthy adult with an intelligent brain capable of leading a fullfilling family life or who might even contribute what an einstein or mozart did naturally.

However, i think these drugs should certainly be studied more widely, and their bans in university research is ridiculous. I know one thing if i contracted a terminal illness, i'd be popping these like candy. Why should ppl suffer unecessarily, if there is a way to alleviate it.

The more interesting aspect is of course, the altered perspective it brings, and whether such a profound experience can alter one#s everyday outlook as well. And also, whether such an profound experience is valid or merely a deception of the mind, however profoundly it affects one, the more so the more careful one should be it would seem.

of course, with drugs, there is also the wider societal impacts to consider, since if someone having taken them feels they are R Kelly and decides they can fly, there are of course other ppl who will need to clean their remains off the sidewalk...

Tucson wrote:
Now, more often I feel I am the world, in/as the world, or being the world, and this thing "me" drops away except when it's necessary to be a "me" in order to do things like describing "my" experiences on this blog or telling "my" attorney how "I" want certain documents to read.

The world writes back: your wisdom really sounds like a cheap hooker or a Goldman Sachs sales man drooling at a 15 mllion fee.


George,
I think that with most people the chances of ending up a red spot on the sidewalk or a tangled mass of misplaced neurons are pretty slim. However, it's best to have someone experienced around not under the influence to serve like a designated driver who can be supportive and "hold your hand" should the need arise.

In cultures where substances such as peyote or ayahuasca are part of their spiritual tradition the shaman or brujo serves this function and more. Ending up a dysfunctional raving lunatic is uncommon. Far more common to feel you have gained some insight of value.

A very readable book about an Amazon Indian culture, healing and the use of ayahuasca is "Wizard of the Upper Amazon" by F. Bruce Lamb.

Reading my new favorite book this morning, "A Tear at the Edge of Creation," I came across this passage from a physicist about the space-time continuum.

Made me wonder about whether psychedelics could be a sort of "glasses" that see space-time more as it is, not as how the human brain usually sees things.
-----------------
"From our limited three-dimensional perspective, we have a myopic view of reality and split space and time into two different entities.

But if we could wear glasses with the prescription that the theory of relativity dictates we would see the union of space and time in all its glory. In the absence of such glasses, we have math."


I think the "glasses" analogy is a good one. Maybe a chiropractic adjustment of the mind is another analogy. Crack! All I can say is that I got more out of a few hours on acid than I did from 20+ years on Sant Mat.

Sant Mat teachings led me to think there could be more, but now I realize I was shown plenty by what happened prior.

Now that in recent years I have resurrected into awareness what began to blossom many years ago I feel more "in touch" than I ever did during the sant mat years which were more stifling than anything else.

I think most satsangis who feel happy on that path or feel in love with the master are really just happy and in love with an idea, an idea of some future glory, and the majesty they attribute to the master is really the majesty they already have within themselves reflected back at them.

Go to the park and have darshan of some dirty, inebriated bum. Gaze with love and faith that the bum is the embodiment of God and see that the same "power" is present there also.

Tucson,
Yes, I think it is pretty rare, but they are quite powerful drugs nevertheless. But i suppose any drug carries a risk, but the difference seems to be that new drugs are subjected to an enormous amount of regulation, testing and transparent research - for good reason too. Whereas the taboos associated with psychaedlics have driven the research more underground. I'm from the school of thought that its not generally a good idea to introduce drugs of any kind into your system unless there's little other choice - since even the quacks cant identify all effects for every individual. It just seems an unnecessary risk, but i guess it depends on how earnest one is in searching for new experiences and broadening one's horizons.

Then again, you make a good point about these psychaedlics having apparently been used in many other cultures fairly safely for a far longer time than in the west. I think Acid is a synthetic substance where an active compound has been isolatedso i;d probably start off with more naturally occuring psycadelics like the shrooms or mescalin. Will try order that book. LOL, since reading this website i've collected a whole bunch of wierd-ass literature, but i find it very interesting.

The question with psychedelics is, as discussed above, what is actually being bought? Who can be trusted? The nature of the industry gives the answer.. it's not worth the risk. Millions of people who have experimented at the wrong time, with too much, with the wrong batch along with those who have only pushed themselves too far, or who failed to eat properly for a while, or who's survival was threatened a few times too many, find themselves in the realm of psychotropic drugs. These are found in the candy shop of psychiatrists who consult their 700 paged manual to determine a psychosis. After that any number of combinations are legally experimented with to artificially create a controlled 'normal' person.

If Timothy Leary is/was the living example of what LSD promotes then its a crock of doodah.

For those of us that have tasted the poison it could be ratified as some kind of hallucinogenic enhancement to bust holes in the sheath of protected layers of preconditioning to safeguard the exposed consciousness from experiencing that which is hidden from 'rational' observation.

But it comes with a cost factor, the mind stuff and the fine substance of protected consciousness is not designed to withstand the chemical molecular bombardment that blasts holes in the protective physiological mental sheath of protection.

hyacinthesis, you have absolutely no idea what you are babbling about. your first sentence proves that, and the rest is meaningless nonsense. "the poison" you say? well, to put it bluntly, you are full of shit. you are in desparate need of a mental laxative like lsd. in other words, you are so narrow-minded, you can't think straight. let go, and live and let live.


"people who have bad trips do so because they already have underlying problems." tAo
Exactly my point. How would it be beneficial for people suffering with depression, PTSD or anxiety then?

"it comes with a cost factor, the mind stuff and the fine substance of protected consciousness is not designed to withstand the chemical molecular bombardment that blasts holes in the protective physiological mental sheath of protection."
-hyacinthesis
Absolutely.

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