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March 06, 2010

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God's just a label, a concept. It's all God, all objects, the cosmos, thoughts, feelings, all matter, all concepts are God...if you care to label it all God.

I think that most fence-sitters would be content to achieve closure with respect to the debate as to whether there actually exists a completely separate "being" that is the cause of all that exists, and that has no necessary connection to what exists.

In this there obviously can be no closure, since the existence of such a "God" is not apparent. What is apparent is the fact that there is no consensus of opinion to be found, other than the supposition that most humans seem to find the notion of "God" as a completely separate entity to be necessary from the get-go, based upon what is obvious to our senses.

If there does actually happen to exist a completely separate "God" and I personally became aware of this God's existence, would I then feel any different about my own obvious and beyond-question existence?

Only if that God compelled me to.

Well one thing for sure. Whether a god or gods exist, we don't decide it. Whatever a person writes in a book, how many questions they come up with, a bigger presence than us is or it is not. It's not up for a vote.

Rain, I agree that something -- anything, really -- is not up for a vote. It either is real, or is is not. It either exists, or it does not.

This is true of visitors from outer space, an asteroid that could destroy Earth, a cure for cancer, whether global warming is caused by human activities, and every other actual or potential entity that could be experienced.

Yet I disagree when you say that "whether a god or gods exist, we don't decide it." Actually, we do. Reality isn't given to us. It is decided upon by the human brain/intelligence/psyche -- whatever we want to call it.

Many of these decisions are personal. Only I can decide whether I am feeling sad, or if I like blueberries better than bananas. But when it comes to entities in our shared world of common experience, then we definitely do decide whether something exists, or doesn't; whether something is true, or isn't.

We do this in many ways. Considering arguments for and against the existence of something is one way. This is the way of science, of rationality, of the "enlightenment."

Another way is for a ruler, secular or religious, to decree whether something is real or not. Many of us don't like this authoritarian approach, while others are attracted to a "thus saith.." promulgator of truth.

Regardless, decisions have to be made about what is real and what is not. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to function in the world, if we took illusions to be real, and realities to be illusions. (We'd sure crash our cars quickly, if green lights and red lights weren't recognized for what they are.)

So we can't get away from debating, arguing, examining evidence, having conversations, hearing each other out. This is how we humans largely decide -- individually and collectively -- what is real and true, and what is not.

You can decide whether you believe in god/gods. You can decide what you do about it if you decide one way or the other, but you cannot decide the existence of god/gods. That is or it is not. It impacts our lives, or could, what we decide while we are living and for some more than others.

I have heard it argued that we create our own reality (especially in new age circles) and hence we could make there be a god or not and that would be that for 'our' world. I say then stop meat from rotting. If we can create our own reality, we would have control that I don't see anybody having.

The central argument for God imo is why something rather than nothing?

Nothing is surely a far simpler state.
The existence of something is a very big deal.

So was something created or has it always just existed? The former is often attributed to god and the latter the universe. However, both explanations (god and the universe) rely on a phenomenon that is eternal and causeless.

A phenomenon that is eternal and causeless is inconsistent with science and our observable natural world, where things appear temporary and causal in nature. Every thing we know of from life forms to the building blocks of life itself appear to be of temporary existence and whose creation was caused by something else.

Whats even stranger of having something rather than nothing, is that the something appears to have a fundamental order the more deeply it is understood. Science itself is the study and discovery of such order from objective observation. It is the rules and patterns of the universe which are science's laws of nature.

So the explanatory phenomenon for 'something', is that it is causeless, eternal and also ordered.

The order appears to brought about according to self-governing principles reflected in the laws and constants of nature, some of which are so finely tuned that if only one of a handful of certain key universal parameters was even slightly out - there would be no universe - i.e. nothing rather than something.

All of this reinforces just how precarious and unlikely the existence of something, rather than nothing, is.

So our explanatary phenomenon is eternal, causeless, ordered and exceptionally unlikely - could be a definition of God.

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