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January 31, 2010

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live and let live, if it's OK for you to criticize those who disparage blind faith, why isn't it OK for other people to criticize religion?

You say, "live and let live." Yet you want to change how religious skeptics, atheists, agnostics, and free thinkers want to live. What's wrong with everybody being allowed to do what they want to do?

If you want to follow a religion, fine. If I want to point out the flaws in that religion, also fine. Your critical comment was published on this blog. My response to your criticism also has been published.

And so we continue to communicate, explore, discuss, debate. It sounds like you want to control the world. Good luck with that. Won't happen.

Brian:

was reading this bit by Howard posted last year, 2/1/10.
howard wrote:
"BUT, there is something about BeeJi, something almost magical, that I do not perceive in anyone else. He has something wonderful I have not perceived in anyone else. I plan to go back next year and consider myself lucky to be able to do so. I know it is not popular to say positive things about Gurinder on this mostly Gurinder bashing website, but that is my perception."

I have talked to many Western satsangi's who admit to being deeply divided. On the one hand they have such loving experiences around the guru (esp. at the Dera and the sangat in India). This is felt deeply. I have had that experience as well. It is extraordinarily loving and positive --- so much so many disciple's find little to nothing to replace that feeling of love. On the other hand for many there are things they feel deeply uneasy about. Think the reason this blog, and David Lane's RSS Yahoo, is so widely read is that there are many disciples that want to find a way to resolve that tension.

Thank you Brian,
I didn't know about Sam Busa's death and I appreciate knowing. I met him once, a nice person. Also, I met you once too and spoke to your wife, both good people too.
Have a wonderful Spring.

teaching of saints are same eastern or westeren, in fact northern or southeren,

we only need to experience before death, after death is our KARMA and HIS GRACE.
yo may call HIM with any name.

regards
harbat

harbat,

You say that teachings of the saints are the same. Then why so many religions?

listen to this 4 min video by Osho
entitled - My God, There is no God!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pp5mWs8k5I


It is only RSSB that says all saints teach the same thing - then they tell you what that same thing is.

Only thing right now - is that the 'Same teachings' are now changing and becoming 'different teachings'. Go figure that one out.

RSSB has never taught traditional enlightenment teachings. RSSB has always been duality: Regions, masters coming at death, light and sound experiences, etc.

I often fall on this blog while googling and I always kept on ignoring viewpoints expressed here. But oh God !!

Brian, you have been so called associated with RSSB, attending and giving many satsangs, writing life is fair. Association of more than 30 years. I wonder what happend suddenly you realised to part away. You got a sudden realisation of so called intelligence. Such intelligence which only few people have on this blog on this earth. And everyone who comes here to differ your half way observations is being labeled as fool.

I have a question Brian; I really hope you reply with full honesty to.

"Were you expecting some big powerful position in RSSB due to your long association, which you didnt get and your decades old practices got wasted and you started on this heavenly blog?"
Only because you didnt get what you wanted ?

I hope you dont mind my question. See, the way you got your doubts or belief for sant mat out of your "Intelligence", Someone like me can also raise this question on you. And when It comes to open public space like this, I really expect to get your reply openly.

I know my observations hardly matter to you bunch of people, still I strongly believe few names here are fake, it is only you speaking from different mouths. Purpose :- To vent your frustration for not getting what you wanted.

And you adopted the path of criticising a guru. You have any idea how you are becoming unfair to your life. Creating negative vibes will certainly come back to you. And when you spread negative about a mass's guru, you are bound to get it.. Not from Him, You meet him, He will always be loving and humble to you. But ONLY from YOU. You have been creating web of negativity around you; and you are bound to get back the same in a miserable way; you never imagine. At least your logical science which you believe in; supports this law : Every action has equal and opposite reaction. Wait for that buddy.

You wasted your whole life, your whole meditation progress. Who is more miserable on this earth than you ?????

I know my views hardly matter to you. But inside you; you realise what I am talking about. And others people here too realise this.

You will get a shock of this realisation after you die. And I really wish God give you power to come back and tell all your bunch of arrogant people here what you lost in your lifetime.

I really hope you publish this. At least I didnt preach any Sant Mant.

Radha Soami Ji !! :)

Sudeep, I wouldn't use the same words as Tara did to describe you, but I certainly agree with her message: you don't know what you're talking about.

I only put up blog posts and comments under my own name. Other commenters are definitely not me. I could never make up the stuff that some people say.

Regarding my dissatisfaction with RSSB, where did you get the idea I wanted a "big powerful position?" What would that be, anyway? And why would I want it?

Do you want to engage in a Who Is Most Humble contest? OK, let's say you do. Here's my entry, recognizing that wanting to get first prize in a Who is Most Humble contest is a bit incongruous.

One day, many years ago, I get a phone call from the head RSSB books sevadar. She explains that Charan Singh, the guru who initiated me, wanted to have a small book he could hand out that explains vegetarianism from a karmic perspective. Before he died, no book was written.

She said that some other people had been trying to write such a book, but it wasn't really getting anywhere. Would I like to take on this job? Sure, I said. I was deeply devoted to Charan Singh, and I enjoyed doing volunteer work for RSSB.

Several years later, after I'd put in an enormous amount of time and effort on what eventually became "Life is Fair," I talked again with the book sevadar. She said we needed to work together in person to get the book finished. Could I come to India? Sure, I said. Likely your name isn't going to be on the book, she told me. It'll be anonymous. Do you still want to come to India? Sure, I said.

I bought an expensive plane ticket. I got a passport. I spent two weeks traveling to and from India, and working on the book while at the Dera. I wasn't looking for recognition. I wanted to provide a service to my guru and to RSSB, and I wanted to encourage people to become vegetarians.

When I got to India, I was told that my name indeed would be on the book. I guess this was a test of some sort. Kind of ridiculous, but RSSB officials play all sorts of games with people.

Anyway, I can confidently say that I've done more "selfless service" for RSSB and the gurus than 99+% of other initiates. So give me my damn Most Humble award!!

(Just be sure to get the engraving of my name spelled correctly, and make the award large enough so people will see it when they look around our living room.)

Great comments from Mia and Alexi and Ahankar.
Thanks blogger Brian for allowing their comments - glad you didn't delete them.

It must have taken a lot of courage for you to allow what you normally would refuse to hear - not a preachy bunch of rssb zombies - but real people confronting you and the other unfortunate bloggers who have had such unfortunate experiences with their gurus. My sincerest regrets to Tao, Tara, Jen, Tuscon, Many Splits, etc. Fortunately, I have not had to go through what they have, having no experience with RSSB. However, I have experienced perhaps even more BS with other sant mat gurus. But am I going to whine continually about it in this blog? Hope not. Yes, rational analysis has been helpful, but I would'nt want it dictate who I am. There is more to life than playing with reason and science.
I suppose I have opened myself up now to your embittered bloggers. Better that you delete my comments - rational argumentation takes me away from experiencing the One (it usually does, you know).

Roy, it doesn't take courage for me, or anyone, to hear opposing views. This is what life is about: diversity, with underlying unity.

Yin and yang. Positive and negative. Man and woman. Light and dark. Existence is the play of opposites, playing on a field of interdependence that allows the interactions.

Religions, however, try to affirm that each has the One True Way. Maybe this is why you are surprised that opposing views are welcomed on this blog: you're used to only hearing a single viewpoint, open debate not being allowed or encouraged.

I don't "whine." I express my views. I haven't had an unfortunate experience with my guru, Charan Singh. Where did you get that idea? I loved the guy, even though I only saw him in person for two weeks during a 1977 visit to India. I still have fond memories of him.

Also, you're wrong about "embittered." I'm not. What bothers me, in religion as in politics as in the rest of life, is when some people assert purported facts and expect other people to believe like they do, but without good reason.

My daily life is far from being rational, intellectual, thought-based. I love Tai Chi, dancing, land paddling on my longboard (skateboard), walking in the Oregon countryside, talking with friends, etc etc etc.

Yet I don't find that "rational argumentation," which bothers you, has ill effects on my happiness or peace of mind. If you read my other blog, HInesSight, you'll see that I've been engaged in a fight to save two remaining beautiful trees in downtown Salem.

I've been arguing a lot with the City, US Bank, newspaper editors, and the few people who think removing five trees was necessary. It's a lot like religion: the official who allowed the removals didn't have any good reasons; he can't justify his decision; he just had the authority to do what he did, so he did it.

This isn't the way to handle public policy, and it isn't the way to determine moral/ethical policy. No one has access to Absolute Truth People should be free to believe whatever they want to, but not free to impose those beliefs on others.

So if you say, "I feel..." or "I love," great. But if you say "This is true..." or "This is real....", now you're treading on the public ground of shared reality, and I have a right to challenge those statements.

I don't "whine." I express my views. I haven't had an unfortunate experience with my guru, Charan Singh. Where did you get that idea? I loved the guy, even though I only saw him in person for two weeks during a 1977 visit to India. I still have fond memories of him.

Do you have the same feelings for Gurinder?

"Where do you search me?
I am with you
Not in pilgrimage, nor in icons
Neither in solitudes
Not in temples, nor in mosques
Neither in Kaba nor in Kailash


I am with you O man
I am with you
Not in prayers, nor in meditation
Neither in fasting
Not in yogic exercises
Neither in renunciation
Neither in the vital force nor in the body


Not even in the ethereal space
Neither in the womb of Nature
Not in the breath of the breath
Seek earnestly and discover
In but a moment of search
Says Kabir, Listen with care
Where your faith is, I am there."

Great poem by Kabir, Alexi!

You know, I agree that the spiritual path is a hard one and your inpiration on Baba Ji's letter to the Southern African families got me searching for other similar sources. I found something from Jerimiah 22:10 HBKJV that says;

"Weep ye not for the dead, neither bemoan him: but weep sore for him that goeth away: for he shall return no more, nor see his native country."

Rest assured Sam is in a much better place now, free from all suffering and concerns.
He is once again united with his beloved Master.
He is now enjoying the fruits of his lifetime of devotion and service.


….True Masters always take care of their disciples, placing them in a much better place, uniting them with their beloved Master where they can enjoy the fruits of their lifetime of devotion and service.

I hope to be more clear now Juan
but it's not new:

Beas Sant Mat, These Gurus learn Us to hear the Sound , next BECOME this sweet Sound
You always were That but now you know for sure
because you hear it at the present second ( in the here & now)
All the time

Next these molecules, when they vanish, it can°° be a relief

Yes Paul said listen all the time

777

°°
Many satsangis don t need relief - They are already enchanted
You just ask yourself "How can this even be sweeter ? "

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