« Maya is illusion: Alan Watts' good news | Main | Evolution shows why reality can't be categorized »

November 10, 2009

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Many Splits, I took the quotation marks as ironic, as noted in my comment on your comment. The "gone off the path" phrase simply stimulated some thoughts in my mind that I ran with and shared.

In my post-Shotokan and pre-Tai Chi mixed style martial arts phase there was quite a bit of Kenjutsu (Japanese sword) work. I enjoyed it, though since traditional karate doesn't emphasize weapons (we occasionally picked up a staff, but didn't do much with it) it took me a while to get comfortable with having something in my hand.

There's a nice energy in weapons play. You feel a connection with the Samurai, and hence Tom Cruise (he did a good job wielding a wooden bokken, which we used in class, in The Last Samurai). We never did freestyle "sparring" swordplay, which is pretty advanced. But learning a kata and basic training exercises was stimulating and challenging.

“Truth is a pathless land. Man cannot come to it through any organization, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual, not through any philosophical knowledge or psychological technique. He has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection...."

J. Krishnamurti

Hi Roger,
I read this quote many years ago, when I was fifteen perhaps...
I remember my maternal Uncle would talk a lot about Krishnamurti and his books. I will look it up and post it shortly, give me a week.
In my opinion, the quote implies " thinking for oneself " or that is what I perceive of it... :)
I see that there are many intellectual people on this blog, it takes a lot to question what one once believed in wholeheartedly.
I have only recently begun to question ( for myself ) certain aspects of RSSB and it's functioning as an organization.

Thank you tAo... That is a lovely quote indeed !

Brian... I've always been fascinated by the way of the Samurai !
In India though, it would be tough to find a Kenjutsu Master !
I've started looking for one... :)
Kenjutsu ( like other Martial Art forms ) helps one practice discipline, improves concentration and helps build focus.
That is what I really need at the moment... :)
And, thanks for sharing your Martial Art experiences through your blog. I find this space in cyberspace rejuvenating.

You are very true whatever you wrote about RSSB.
But some people surprise how God who has created millions of planets, millions of universes, moon , millions of stars can be so small as human. But they do not use their wisdom. It is written in all holy books that he is limitless and the most powerful. If we doubt that he cannot come in the garment of human body , its mean we are contradicting with above mentioned qualities of God. We actually assume that he is limited only within His own space and has no power to take the form of human.

It is mention in kooran "MOla Adami ban aya", Which means God come in this world as human. Also in many places it is mentioned in GuruGranth Sahib Holy book of Sikhs that God comes in human disguise to take his loving souls back home. He teaches them right and wrong, guide them, which is possible only through earthen pot of human body.

You are also true when God come in this world as Saint or Guru or Teacher or Guide, he comes only for chosen Souls not for materialistic dogs who think their intellect is greater than God. Because God even being all powerfull and supreme power shows His true Humbleness when He comes as Saints. Because tree full of fruits always bend. And God hate and maintain distance from people who think themseleves and their brain superior them Him and has no humbleness.

That is the reason whenever He comes as Siants anywhere around the world Siants were ill treated by worldly dogs because they never could understand them. Nor these saints want them to understand them because they want to keep distance from them. Because they are like opposite poles. Worldly dog worship objects of this world, money, science and their intellect while for lovers of God, God is the greatest scientist, the most intelligent, limitless and timeless.God loves people who do not love the objects of this world but love Him. Saints (God in human body) keep these people off from them. Wordly people want to see magic or display of their spiritual power to be believed. But God who is all powerful and displaying His magic every day through His creation by bringing sunamies, earthquakes, volcanoes, growing plants or trees, sun set , sunrise do not need to display it. Because God is not at all come in this earth to enteratain or show magician show to worldly people. What is the value of people in front of eyes who are created by Him? Which are subject to diseases, sorrows, pain , birth and death-- and all these things are in His hand. Does God really interested to impress these helpless humans? No, He comes and secretly display His real power to His real disciples only that is the reason only true disciples know that He is God. Noone else to whom He doesnot want to show hios power, can know who the Saints are in actual.

The following comment statements (within quotation marks) were posted by FoolWorld on January 24, 2010 at 03:51 PM. my comments follow after:

FoolWorld writes: "how God who has created millions of planets, millions of universes, moon , millions of stars can be so small as human."

[first of all, i am not sure whether your comments belong on this, or under another topic.]

-- who said that god created millions of universes etc?? and who said that god exists?? FoolWorld, YOU said that. only you. so whatever else you tack on to this is also only your own presumption(s).

"It is written in all holy books that he is limitless and the most powerful."

-- so what?? many things are written in so-called "holy books". all sorts of odd things. but that does not make them true. and books were written by people, and people are both fallible and they also subscribe to many illusions. so your using "holy books" as a supposed credible reference, is weak and proves nothing.

"If we doubt that he cannot come in the garment of human body , its mean we are contradicting with above mentioned qualities of God."

-- YOU were the one who posited that assumption that god exists and has those attributes that you have claimed ("limitless and the most powerful".

"We actually assume that he is limited only within His own space and has no power to take the form of human."

-- again, you are assuming that your 'god' ("he" & "His") exists. and can also "take the form of human"... but there is absolutely nothing (no evidence) to support that. therefore, you are merely speculating.

"It is mention in kooran "MOla Adami ban aya", Which means God come in this world as human."

-- fyi, you are totally incorrect. the "kooran" (The Quran) says nothing of the sort. one of the most fundamental tenets of Islam is that no human being isor can be god, or is in any way equal to god. so obviously your knowledge of the Quran is terribly faulty and lacking. Islam totally opposes this idea that you claim.

"Also in many places it is mentioned in GuruGranth Sahib Holy book of Sikhs that God comes in human disguise to take his loving souls back home."

-- again, so what?? mere statements made in books establish no credibility to this.

"He teaches them right and wrong, guide them, which is possible only through earthen pot of human body."

-- but that does not make a (spiritual) teacher god or an incarnation of god.

"You are also true when God come in this world as Saint or Guru or Teacher or Guide, he comes only for chosen Souls not for materialistic dogs who think their intellect is greater than God."

-- you're pretty darn negative and derogatory and judgemental towards material minded people aren't you? and you are rather offensive to those wonderful companions of man known as "dogs" as well. it clearly shows that you aren't any better than those whom you criticise, and quite a bit worse. you say "chosen Souls"... chosen souls my ass. you are just a dogmatic and narrow-minded hypocrite.

"Because God even being all powerfull and supreme power shows His true Humbleness when He comes as Saints."

-- this is only your belief, and it has no actual provable reality. in fact, there is considerable evidence to the contrary.

"And God hate and maintain distance from people who think themseleves and their brain superior them Him and has no humbleness."

-- now this is really so absurdl that its funny, and its also terribly lame. that supposedly (you claim) "God hate(s)" people "who think themseleves". yes, a "Fool" you are indeed.

"That is the reason [...] Siants were ill treated by worldly dogs"

-- you sure don't like dogs, do you?? did sant mat teach you to be this way??

"these saints want them to understand them because they want to keep distance from them."

-- that's not what i've heard. and so you think you are better than other people?? typical religious nut.

"Worldly dog worship objects of this world, money, science and their intellect"

-- there you go again, demeaning dogs and putting down money and science and intellect. but the truth is, you're just another holier-than-thou asswipe who judges people who do not believe your guru-cult religion.

"God loves people who do not love the objects of this world but love Him."

-- thats not what i heard. i heard that god loves each and every one, both sinner and saint alike. so where'd you get your head and heart so screwed up??

"Saints (God in human body) keep these people off from them."

-- thats not what i heard. i heard that true saints seek out the poor in spirit and the downtrodden. so you sound like a real miserable and heartless jackass and a dimwit (pardon my french).

"Wordly people want to see magic or display of their spiritual power to be believed. But God who is all powerful and displaying His magic every day through His creation by bringing sunamies, earthquakes, volcanoes, growing plants or trees, sun set , sunrise do not need to display it."

-- Nature does all of that, not "God". and these so-called god-men cannot show or manifest one iota of miraculous power. because they have no such thing. they are ordinary humans like everyone else.

"God is not at all come in this earth to enteratain or show magician show to worldly people."

-- god does not "come on this earth" at all. 'god' is just an idea, an abstract human thought.

"He [god] comes and secretly display His real power to His real disciples only that is the reason only true disciples know that He is God."

-- why is he so secretive?? ... well probably because god is not at all what you think, and does not act as you so foolishy believe.

"He does not want to show his power"

-- oh sure, a typical excuse. tell me that you aren't really as dumb as you appear to be here... are you?? well its people like you who make sant mat look so incredibly idiotic. its not all that bad, but guys like make sant mat sound utterly crazy and delusional. its really too bad that you are making such an awful name for sant mat and RS.


Hi Brian !
I forgot to add in my previous comment that discipline / concentration / focus is what I am trying to better, purely for furthering my personal and professional pursuits / interests, and have nothing to do with RS meditation... :)
The more I read your posts, the more I can relate to Tao, Tuscan and the "Master" of this blog... :)
Is there any way I can get in touch with Rose... ??
I need to get touch with Rose... !! Hello Rose... Where are you... ??
I also wish to write an email to you Brian, I'll do that in February.
I'm getting my thoughts together and clearer.
I sincerely hope you'll have the time to read them !
Warmest,
Many Splits

Quoting Brian -

" I started to practice yoga and meditation when I was 20 years old. Forty-one years later, I'm still at it : trying to find the real me and the truth at the heart of the cosmos. Along the way, in 1990, I married a woman who has taught me as much, or more, about reality than meditation has.
Laurel is a psychotherapist ( now retired ). She helped me understand that attempting to transcend this world is crazy if you haven't first come to grips with yourself and how you relate to other people."

Beautiful.

I read your blog everyday Brian.
It makes me feel like taking note of every little marvel that exists around me, in its form of perfection or imperfection - whatever is. I feel the need to be more open minded after subscribing to a set pattern of beliefs that makes up most of the RS doctrine.

I quoted you above cause therein lies a great starting point for me -
" ...understand that attempting to transcend this world is crazy if you haven't first come to grips with yourself and how you relate to other people. "

Many thanks Laurel and Brian !

Many Splits, many thanks back. Your appreciation is much appreciated.

As you might expect, this blog gets quite a bit of "hate mail" from negative people who can't stand what I say (yet for some reason they keep reading my blog posts, apparently to refresh their irritation).

I realize that most people, and this includes me, are more likely to complain than to praise. Mark Morford has a good column on this subject -- of how so many are disappointed at just about everything these days:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/01/29/notes012910.DTL&nl=fix

So thanks for your positivity.

these Gurus come into this dreamworld to bring the shabd to our consciousness....it's ALL up to us if we want to become one with the light, love, knowledge, and ultimate truth to who we are.

linmira,

these supposed "Gurus" are but imaginary characters in an imaginary "dreamworld"... your dreamworld.

and "shabd" is also nothing but consciousness appearing as that same dreamworld.

there is no need "to become one" with "the light", or with "love", or with "knowledge", or with "truth"... as you are never separate from any of that.


radha soami ji
we are radha soami ji.but its rule that we mqarry only radha soami 's family?

I just wanted to discuss something about my life.. I donot know what i am doing is correct or not .. About my Career i want to be Independent bt i m facing lot of Trouble.. I just want baba ji blessing & ans of my Ques ..Plz Baba jee gve me sme Indication wht should i do..

quote Chainika Malhotra :

........I just want baba ji blessing & ans of my Ques ..Plz Baba jee gve me sme Indication wht should i do..


''You are the God of the universe; where can you seek for help? Never help
came from anywhere but from yourself. In your ignorance, every prayer that
you made and that was answered, you thought was answered by some Being,
but you answered the prayer yourself unknowingly. The help came from
yourself, and you fondly imagined that some one was sending help to you.
There is no help for you outside of yourself; you are the creator of the universe.''
Vivekananda

Radhasoami Ji,

BabaJi is GOD's messenger, This is a soul belief and truth. Anyone contesting for it will rest in peace !

Amen!

And WHO is GOD?

My friend, you said you were a follower of RSSB for more than 3decads. And you also said that you have actively participated in Meditation and Seva. But, now a days you realized that this is no way special.
Then why can't you share/publish the Pancha Naamas i.e. five mantras you received from Charan Singh Maharaji.

See you are even afraid of the comments thats why this message is appearing when ever any one tries to submit a comment.

"
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment
"

See how much you are afraid of.

My Friend,
Sant Mat, you could only understand with true love.
You said you were a dedicated follower, to be frank you pretended as if you were true and dedicated follower.
You pretended because, you could not digest the fact that any "Sant"(Guru) is divine him self.
Do you remember the saying of Jesus, he said that "He is the son of the God, whom came to rescue us".

Please try to re call all that happened in your life till now with a peaceful brain.

Thank you for giving me a chance to submit a comment.

"I am sure as said by Charan Singh Maharaji, you will see him coming for your rescue at the time of your last breath."

Sorry if it hurts you, but this is true and proved. You can not understand this now. Because you need a proof.

RadhaSoami

xxx, I've shared the "Five Holy Names" on this post:
http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2007/08/sant-mats-five-.html

I'm not afraid of comments. Where do you get that idea? I've moderated comments for quite a while to keep out spam and irrelevant comments. Lots of web sites and blogs do this.

Also, what do you mean by me "pretending" to be devoted to my guru and Sant Mat? Obviously you don't know me very well. I can guarantee you that I did a hell of a lot more meditation and volunteer service than, probably, 99% of other initiates.

And I was sincere about my devotion. I was a true believer. I did the "experiment" of meditation for thirty years and didn't get the expected results. So what's wrong with that?

I learned a lot during those thirty years. I had some great experiences and made many friends. Now I'm taking what I've learned and going in some different directions.

As I've noted before, it's a burden to feel so special. For one thing, it divides you from other people, such as my wife -- who, because she wasn't a RSSB initiate, was looked upon with more than a little pity by many of the "chosen people."

I'm going to fly to Oregon and hug you for writing the above.
Any path that says such things about being the chosen ones should ring alarm bells.

They're not special, just extremely lucky to have received a ticket out of Kal's nightmarish and lamewad physical reality. Read Anurag Sagar, it's all explained there in crystal clear detail.

I am struggling to understand something. when do souls get marked? were marked souls always marked? I have always felt the karma story to be fair and just, but this doesn't seem just to me

Yashothan,

Usually souls are marked during the transmordial phase of the astral coalescence period corresponding to about three and one half weeks after leaving the prior mortal coil. This marking consists of subradiant causal dots or implants on the aural transference covering easily seem by advanced souls who have progressed beyond the Maha Sunn. Perfect Sants have no trouble spotting a marked soul even from great distances or even on different planes of consciousness. One type of marked soul known as a "premloka bajim" is marked at the time of its original descent from the highest region of Sat Purush Radha Soami usually on the Anurag Staircase. These souls retain an intrinsic purity and make rapid progress once intitiated. Their sojourn in the gross realms of Pind is short, often one lifetime or at the most two. This may or may not seem fair but it is just because Sat Purush wants it that way and who is to argue with Him? He knows best. May the Shabd be with you.

If some RSSB initiates feel special, so what! Celebrities and the powerful elite feel very special and the public worship them not realising the power being used comes from the dark forces ruling the world.

What if we have lived countless lives since time began and then some souls started to cry out in anguish at the trap they found themselves in? What if this suffering was heard and then acknowledged by 'that' which we really are, the source, the Shabd, our eternal link to our real selves, which then took birth in human form and attracted those 'marked' souls for initiation?

I don't feel special, just very grateful. I give thanks for initiation. I will be patient because it will take a while to be cleansed, maybe a few more lifetimes, before I am pure enough (yes, our souls have collected a lot of dross from the mind) to merge with the shabd. I feel happy that at last I will be going home.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Welcome


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.