Open Thread 5

Here's another Open Thread (previous OTs are still open, of course). Leave a comment about anything you want to talk about. From now on comments on other posts need to be related to the subject of the post, or they will be candidates for deletion. So an Open Thread is the place for miscellany and whatever. Feel free. No personal attacks on other commenters (or me), please: criticize a message, not the messenger.

Comments

[Obscrene]

I am writing to this blog (and other activities) in order not to feel my being.

[Cell]

Brian, may I ask a few questions of you? I would just send you an email, but I think that some external input could be helpful, too.

Might I ask you what your intent was when going into Sant Mat? Were you looking for God, or were you looking for the spiritual experiences associated with Sant Mat? I mean, the whole point of RSSB is to merge back with God; was that what you were looking for? Some of your posts confuse me about this. You seemed to have expected to ascend to the higher regions, to have out-of-body experiences, and to achieve God-realization within this lifetime. Not everyone is so lucky. I've met several people that are spiritually realized, and I wish that you had the chance to speak with them. For some reason you've only come across those poor people that, for some reason, haven't had success in their meditation.

Also, on the point of meditation; did you love the Master when you where following the Path? Did you have faith? I question this because your critical thoughts have to have been brewing for a long time. Perhaps you went into initiation before your intellect was truly satisfied.

One more question; why do you even have this website? You know that the only resistance that you shall receive will be from initiates that haven't gotten very far (no offense, folks. I'm not even initiated m'self). People that are actual sants won't reply to you; they don't care.

Okay, just one more question; how can you deny the spiritual experiences of tens of thousands of people? There are satsangis that have had success, you're just not looking for them, are you?

I submit these questions with the utmost respect, Brian. Your choices are just that; your own.

[tucson]

Cell,

You wrote: " You seemed to have expected to ascend to the higher regions, to have out-of-body experiences, and to achieve God-realization within this lifetime. Not everyone is so lucky."

---How do you know there is another lifetime? What if there isn't? You make the assumption based on RS dogma that there is a permanent "you", aka surat, that somehow maintains it's individuality after dissolution of this current bodily form.

This is a convenient escape clause in this so-called science that supposedly can be verified through its practice. This escape clause is that the disciples' karma may be too heavy for spiritual experience in this lifetime, but not to worry, it is guaranteed within four lifetimes. Do you really want to wait for lifetime no.4 to find out if this really is a true path and science only to find out it isn't?

When this path fails to produce results it is always the fault of the disciple, either due to heavy Karma or some personal deficit of character or devotion. It is never considered that the fault could be in the validity of the path and the master himself.

You said: "how can you deny the spiritual experiences of tens of thousands of people?"

---How do you know tens of thousands of people have had spiritual experiences of inner regions as described in Sant Mat? How can you verify this? Have you seen the radiant form, Mansorovar, the rotating cave, or dweeps of hansas in Daswan Dwar? How do you know others have?

You said: "People that are actual sants won't reply to you; they don't care."

---How do you know what a sant might or might not do without being one yourself? How do you know they don't care about this blog? Perhaps there is a sant working in mysterious ways who has been assigned to this blog by Sat Purush?

[tAo]

Cell, here is my "external input":

Bearing in mind a rather significant fact, that you admit that you have not been intitiated, and therefore you have no actual experience whatsoever with the RS path...

You said:

"the whole point of RSSB is to merge back with God [...] You seemed to have expected to ascend to the higher regions, to have out-of-body experiences, and to achieve God-realization within this lifetime. Not everyone is so lucky."

-- Then what IS the point? If the RS path does not achieve the goal within ones' lifetime, then what is the use? Because, how can you be certain that there is any future life that follows after this life? If RS cannot produce results - reach the goal - even after decades of meditation, then what makes you think that it will achieve after you are dead ?... even assuming that there is another life after you die?

"I've met several people that are spiritually realized, and I wish that you had the chance to speak with them. For some reason you've only come across those poor people that, for some reason, haven't had success in their meditation."

-- You say they are "spiritually realized", but how do you know that? And how would you know that someone else is "spiritually realized" as a result of following the RS path, if you have never actually practiced the RS path? And if somone is "spiritually realized" as you say, then what bearing does that have upon RS? You also say that Brian has not come across anyone who has had "success in their meditation". How do you know that? You actually say that the rest of us are merely "poor people" that "haven't had success in their meditation". But what makes you assume that? Where do you get the idea that no one else has had any "success in their meditation"? You have made several conclusions here that are not necessarily the case with other people. And moreover, what do YOU mean by "success"? Do you mean simply having experiences in meditation, or do you mean achievinng this so-called "God-realization"? There is a big difference, so which do you mean?

"on the point of meditation; did you love the Master when you where following the Path? Did you have faith?"

-- What does love or faith have to do with "the point of meditation"?

"Perhaps you went into initiation before your intellect was truly satisfied."

-- That is a mistaken assumption. Everyone that applies for initiation and proceeds along the path does it in faith. How could it be otherwise? This thing about satisfying the intellect is only prior to intitiation. Brian's faith led him to practice (and keep practicing) the meditation for decades. And so THAT is faith. Whereas you yourself have not practiced at all, so frankly, what position do you have to be questioning Brian's faith? What faith and commitment have you exercised?

* Please note that these questions that I am asking of you, they are not so much challenges as they are simply honest inquiries to prompt you to reflect upon your own assumptions, beliefs, and conclusions.

"why do you even have this website? You know that the only resistance that you shall receive will be from initiates that haven't gotten very far."

-- Well that's not necessarily true at all. What makes you assume that the only people here, are people that "haven't gotten very far"? How do you know that? How COULD you know that? You don't know how "far" other people have reached spiritually. So this is yet another unfounded conclusion on your part. How on earth can you presume to know what other people have achieved or attained or realized, or that they have not? What indication or evidence do you have to make such a conclusion?

"People that are actual sants won't reply to you; they don't care.'

-- This is yet another example of a blind assumption. Please remain open-minded for a moment and don't react. How do you know that someone is or is not a "sant"? How do you know there are no "actual sants" here?? And how do you know that "sants won't reply", and that they "don't care" ??? On what basis do you make these claims?

"just one more question; how can you deny the spiritual experiences of tens of thousands of people?"

-- What makes you think there are "tens of thousands of people" (RS initiates) who have had "spiritual experiences"? How do you know this to be true? What evidence (if any) do you have to support this assertion?? Seriously. I am sincerely asking you how could possibly know what tens of thousands of other people (who you don't know) have experienced? Be honest, be reasonable.

"There are satsangis that have had success, you're just not looking for them, are you?

-- Again, how do you know they have "had success", and if they have, then who and where are these "satsangis that have had success"? How do you know for a fact that they have "had success"?? And why do you assume that Brian is not looking for them? Brian maintains this site, and he has asked numerous times for anyone to share their experiences, but few if any ever do so. So what makes you say that Brian is "just not looking for them"??? How do you conclude that?

"I submit these questions with the utmost respect, Brian."

-- And I submit my questions to you with respect as well. In so doing, I am also hoping that you will be able to see some of the flaws in your own thinking and in your assumptions and beliefs about the RS path, about other satsangis, and about Brian and the rest of us here. And I sincerely welcome your response.

[Roger]

"..... how can you deny the spiritual experiences of tens of thousands of people? There are satsangis that have had success, you're just not looking for them, are you?"

---I'm not an initiate, however, I am prepared to exchange some of those new shiney things for some spiritual experience successes. I think this is a fare offer. So, one of you 10,000, please make me an offer. I shall be waiting for my successful experience. Yours truly - Roger

[yogi]

Brian, Tuscan, Tao sirs,
Plz. do some homework for me.
Kindly enlist the books on spirituality you have read till now especially rssb ones.
Then I'll have an idea what to discuss. I intend to cite some parts from them and take your openions or ask direct questions.
I am cross with you. I intend to engage you in fight untill the end.( you are likely to taste some sweet and sour).
Best of luck sirs,
Your Junior,
Yogi

[tAo]

"sirs, Kindly enlist the books on spirituality you have read till now especially rssb ones."

-- Answers: Spiritual books - too numerous to mention. RSSB bools - all.

"I am cross with you. I intend to engage you in fight untill the end."

-- Answer: Do not care to engage in fight.

"Tao sir, could you share your agenda for being on this blog."

-- Answer: No agenda.

"How much time do spend in spiritual practice daily?"

-- Answer: No pratice.

"please share the results of your efforts
We want to know about you. your personal vision, personal practice, your experiances and finally your hopes about the results of your endeavours."

-- Answers:
personal vision - light.
personal practice - surrender.
experiences - too numerous to mention.
hopes - none.
results - reality.
endeavours - life.

"how happy you are throughout the day?"

-- Answer: Neither.

"What turns you on and off?"

-- Answer: None.

"How much time have you set for yourself to reach your destination?"

-- Answer: Destination is here & now.

"How good student you are"

-- Answer: No student.

"how good Master you"

-- Answer: No master.

[Juan]

Yogi,

If you wish,please throw some light on the following RSSB books:

Parmarthi Patra- Part I
Ruhani Diary- Part I
The Path of the Masters.

Thanks

[tucson]

Yogi,

I was initiated by Charan Singh in person in 1970. I read all the RSSB books that were available until the early 1990's. I visited Dera Baba Jaimal Singh for three months in 1974 and another visit for about one month in 1984. I have attended about 1000 satsangs and have done 10-15,000 hours of simran and bhajan.

I have read many "spiritual" books. I can't name or remember them all. One of my favorites is "The Upside Down Circle".

Have you read this one...

http://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/

?

[Account Deleted]

my dear yogi cell and juan

do not engage yourslef with TAO..
its of no use..my dear buddies..

and yogi please do not call them sirs..they do not deserve the sir title at all..

and one more thing yogi..do not get into fight..with tao,they are lost in the illusion let them,
you dont waste time getting involved with them,espcially tao

its very simple yogi juan and cell

when being in the path for years?
doing meditation for years?
reading almost all the books?

arreee mera yaara..my dear buddy
if at all all these above activities havent made them understood and realise how will we?

so its better to stay away from these guys who have lost their senses..

yeah it can be a good question that why they lost their senses?
after putting up efforts for years why they lost the faith and got into this blogging..

but again this question i too asked myself ...

but i think there are answers for all questions
but these people won't believe...

what i have seen and understood clearly my dear yogi these people now have lost trust,belif,hope and faith in RSSB and their followers..

so its my request there no need to get into discussion with them they anyhow will never agree to your point at all..

when you say you know someone who have realised,they will asked your proofs..and again when there are not satisfied they wll ask you more and more and more until they reach the point where they can term you wrong...

and just say onething i have lost faith in rssb
they will welcome you with open arms..and hugs

so dear yogi...do not waste your time on them who cannot understand..

time will one day perhaps will make them realise..

as i already mentioned in my previous post..

and i even feel sad and pity for tucson..that he also spend a numerous time of his life and is now left the rssb out.

well dear bloggers and brain..
you people never understood me..
i never cared that why people are leaving RSSB..
that was never my concern,
but the way you say things about RSSB
from your point of views by your own interactions with rssb people or how you took masters words and sayings..

these all things cannot prove rssb a cult..or you have the right to criticize them..

well but you are doing..and i cannot help you guys out..
you can very well continue doing what all you like..

but do question yourself everyday
that why are you doing all this
is it right
or is it wrong
if it is right you need not need to do it
and if its wrong then you shouldn't do it

well perhaps..i can just say..

god bless you all always..

[Account Deleted]

and yeah yogi as tuscon gave you an link
which is perhaps one of the oldest one..

already read by me looooooooooooooooooong back..

you can please go through it..

its an anti rssb beas oriented website..
which was perhaps uploaded by agra rs people..
as everyone know rs agra from dayal bagh was been always jealous of rssb beas..

and there are many truth regarding shiv dayal singh ji and baba jaimal singh ji which were erased in this article and they have created their own story and showed to the people..

i m planning to get this link printed in the book of RSSB the book which was requested to read by all whom so ever is wanted to enter RSSB.

it will be a great help for the new comers..to decide..

there are lot of books lying in my shelf because of the grace of master and my great grand dad which books are not available in the dera or anywhere else now..

in which theres lot of truth written about shivdayal singh ji and baba jaimal singh ji..which agra people also got printed and later on they removed it from their organisation as well..

[George]

i'd be interested in that book 'path of the masters' by julian johnson, Brian mentioned it on another thread, but someone else i know also recommended it.

Perhaps Brian could shed some light or do a quick review on this book?

a very amusing post from Yogi above, 'sweet and sour' sounds like wrath of god stuff.

[tAo]

Manish arora says:

"do not engage yourslef with TAO..

"do not call them sirs..they do not deserve

"with tao,they are lost in the illusion

"in the path for years
doing meditation for years
reading almost all the books

"all these above activities havent made them understood and realise

"stay away from these guys who have lost their senses.

"why they lost their senses? why they lost the faith and got into this blogging.

"i think there are answers
but these people won't believe.

"these people now have lost trust,belif,hope and faith in RSSB

"they anyhow will never agree to your point at all.

"they will asked your proofs.
when there are not satisfied they wll ask you more and more and more

"where they can term you wrong.

"do not waste your time on them who cannot understand.

"one day perhaps will make them realise.

"i even feel sad and pity for tucson..
is now left the rssb out.

"you people never understood me.
why people are leaving RSSB.

"the way you say things about RSSB
or how you took masters words and sayings.

"cannot prove rssb a cult.
or you have the right to criticize them.
but you are doing.

"i cannot help you guys

"why are you doing all this
it wrong
its wrong
you shouldn't do it

bless you"

-- Need I say anything more? LOL! I rest my case.

[Blogger Brian]

I'd like to see Manish's words made into a rap song. Or maybe hip-hop. There's a certain rhythm to his verbiage. Of course the rapper would need to wear mucho bling and grab his crotch a lot. Plus, throw it some "yo's."

"Yo, tAo!
Why ya doing thissss?
It wrong!
Its wrong!
Ya shouldn't do't.
Bless ya."

Ah, I can almost hear it.

[tAo]

LOL!

Yeah, maybe Manish could record a whole CD of rap/hip-hop tracks, and then the RSSB will include it in their catalog, and Brian will become his producer and tAo will be his director and Tucson his business manager... and through their influence and vision Manish will rise to great celebrity, making Brian & tAo & tucson & and himself very very very rich... and he will go on many world tourz, and the RS spiritual hip-hop soundz of "Manish and the Sants" will be heard throughout every satsang and ghetto of the global village, and Manish will no doubt win a Grammy or two... and as he steps up to the stage and the flashing cameras, Manish will say:

"Yo, Yo, Yo... if it wozent for duh greatness and duh vision of mah mentorz Brain and Tao and Tucson, I wuudant be diss waay tooday"

As the beat goes on... as the beat goes on....

...and then Manish sez:

"Yo, Yo, Bless Ya Bless ya Bless ya, Bling. Yo, Yo, Bless Ya Bless ya Bless ya, Bling."

[tAo]

PS: And also, Yogi will be the man in charge of driving Manish's personal pimped-out super-deeluxe tour bus... as well as making sure there are lots of scantily clad sexy Hoz and Bitchez on the bus, backstage at the gigs, and at parties and satsangs along the way.

Yo! Yogi... we are counting on ya Bro.. so don't ya let us down now.

[tAo]

I'M DA MOFO GURU

I'm da MoFo Guru
And dat's what I AM

I'm a MoFo-in Guru
An I ain't no Sham

Gimme Yo Bling, Gimme Yo Bling
Shake Yo Booty an Suck my Ding

Brian ana Tucson ana Georgie in de ole UK
Wez'a partyin wid da Hoz an da Sants an wez'a doin OK

I'm da MoFo Guru
An dat's what I AM

I'm a MoFo-in Guru
An I ain't no Sham

Gimme Yo Bling, Gimme Yo Bling
Shake Yo Booty an Suck my Ding

Now Tao hez'a Master ana Bastard ana SOB
But he sho gotz da Hoz an da Bling an a Big Dicky

I'm da MoFo Guru
An dat's what I AM

I'm a MoFo-in Guru
An I ain't no Sham

Gimme Yo Bling, Gimme Yo Bling
Shake Yo Booty an Suck my Ding

I'm da MoFo Guru
And dat's what I AM

© 2012 by tAo & tAo-nOw interstellar music inc. all rights reserved

[yogi]

tao sir,
I am just checking how elaborately you know yourself.

Plz try to be as elaborative as you can about the responses which you gave. I intend to eradicate chances of misinterpretaions. You wrote-
personal vision - light.
personal practice - surrender.
experiences - too numerous to mention.
hopes - none.
results - reality.
endeavours - life.

Sir,we are hoarded on the same ship going for high-seas.We are here and will be seeing each other again and again.I am hoping a fantastic finish.
Junior
yogi

[sapient]

Somehow with the writing style, yogi and Manish sounds like the same person..:)

[yogi]

tuscan sir,
The book "Die to Live" is like- Know the Thumb Rules.
The books "Spiritual Gems-2" and "Master Answers" are like customized solutions.
There are other very good books also. Like "Living Meditation". In the last chapter it explicitly elaborates the method of practice(meditation).
I have read almost all rssb books and I have personal openion that they are the authentic source of the DETAILS of meditaion practice.
THEN THERE ARE q & a CDS.
I havn't read the book mentioned by you, but I will be into reading around six months later or earlier.
See you sir,
Junior
Yogi

[tAo]

Yogi, I really don't know what else to tell you other than what I already have, but let me try again. You asked:

"sirs, Kindly enlist the books on spirituality you have read till now especially rssb ones."

-- I have read hundreds of spiritual books. I could not even begin to list them here. As for RSSB books, I had read all of the RS books that were published prior to about the early 1990s.

"I am cross with you. I intend to engage you in fight untill the end."

-- But I am not at all interested in fighting.

"Tao sir, could you share your agenda for being on this blog."

-- I have no agenda here whatsoever. I am merely an indicidual who posts comments which express my own personal views and opinions about various subjects issues.

"How much time do spend in spiritual practice daily?"

-- I do not engage in any spiritual practice as you may likely conceive of it. But simply put, I remain in spontaneous and effortless contemplation and awareness, self-knowledge.

"please share the results of your efforts"

-- I make no efforts spiritually, and so neither do I care about results. I don't engage in strategies. I simply allow myself to be as a channel for the higher light and power and intelligence of the One.

"about you. your personal vision, personal practice, your experiances and finally your hopes about the results of your endeavours."

-- I have no "personal vision" other than natural awareness. I have no personal practice, as I have surrendered all such strategies. I have experiences . I hold to no hopes except the cessation of suffering for all sentient beings. I have no 'spiritual' endeavors, and so seek no results in that which is transitory.

"how happy you are throughout the day?"

-- I am neither happy nor sad.

"What turns you on and off?"

-- I am not turned "on" or "off", but I enjoy the simple pleasures of life.

"How much time have you set for yourself to reach your destination?"

-- I have no destination. I live in, what for lack of a better term is, the here & now.

"How good student you are"

-- I am not a student other than being, in a sense, a student of Life.

"how good Master you"

-- I am a master only of myself. I don't believe in any other masters or mastery. I seek only to be a vessel of the higher light, and truth

[tucson]

Junior Yogi,

You wrote:

"tuscan sir,
The book "Die to Live" is like- Know the Thumb Rules."

--Yes, I read "Die to Live" twice I think and referred to it often.

"The books "Spiritual Gems-2" and "Master Answers" are like customized solutions."

--The original "Spiritual Gems" by Sawan Singh was one of my favorite Sant Mat books. I kept it on the bedside table and read it before going to sleep.

"There are other very good books also. Like "Living Meditation". In the last chapter it explicitly elaborates the method of practice(meditation)."

--This is one I am not familiar with. It must have come out after my time. Nevertheless I know the method of practice very well as taught by Charan Singh, Jagat Singh, and Sawan Singh.

"I have read almost all rssb books and I have personal openion that they are the authentic source of the DETAILS of meditaion practice."

--It is good to have a thorough understanding of the spiritual path you have chosen.

"THEN THERE ARE q & a CDS."

--In my day they had q&a cassette tapes.

"I havn't read the book mentioned by you, but I will be into reading around six months later or earlier."

--Good. It's easy to read. Lots of cartoon drawings and not much text. Very simple, humorous and profound at the same time.

You see, I don't want to "fight" with you. There is not much point in arguing. You must realize that I understand Sant Mat teachings very well. I simply no longer believe in them. You apparantly do and that is your choice.

Best Wishes

[Account Deleted]

by seeing taos post and thoughts
i remember this song which is best suitable for tao

Who lets the dog out who who who
who lets the dog out who who who

[Account Deleted]

my dear yogi
tao is a failed person why are you seeking his help,

seek a master perhaps..

[tAo]

Manish,

Quite unbeknownest to you, I happen to already be a 'master'... a real and true master - a sage - not some mere religious cult leader, like you seem to follow.

Someday maybe you will finally wake up and undertand that about me. I hope so, but I kinda doubt it. And brother, that's entirely your loss, not mine.

Btw Manish, you need to get with the new program and refrain from making personally derogatory comments and ridicule (both gross and subtle). Brian has started a new phase here at Church of the Churchless. Comments which contain personal ridicule or derogatory insinuations towards others is no longer acceptable.

[Obscrene]

Surely it is clear to everyone that tAo and Brian are one and the same
tAo always supports Brian, and Brian always posts tAo's comments, even if they are threatening or personally insulting
Also look at the times of posts.
Of course Brian and tAo will strongly deny this claim, but I ask you, would he admit it? Of course not, so strong denial is always going to be the response, and proves nothing!
tAo/Brian, we are all not so much fools as you may think

[Blogger Brian]

Obscrene/JAP, while your comment could be considered a personal attack, and hence grounds for deletion, I like to leave in particularly ridiculous statements as examples of deluded thinking.

tAo and I are different people. End of story. Unfortunately, simple truths don't appeal to you, and you'll probably want to continue believing in a falsity. Your choice. For me, truth is better than fiction.

[Account Deleted]

[edited to delete personal attacks; also, a duplicate comment that already had been published on another post from Manish also was deleted -- Blogger Brian]

hey obscrene you know my very solid post was deleted by brian again
which shows brian and tao both are one..

[Account Deleted]

[comment edited due to personal attacks; I left in the following, though it's an attack on me. Manish, I put time and effort into this blog because I believe in seeking truth. My mother was a truth-seeker, and I know that if she was still alive she would appreciate open and honest churchless dialogue about what is true about religion, and what isn't. So in part I blog in her honor, and you're not going to stop me from doing that. You're welcome to participate in dialogue here; but not to keep making personal attacks -- Blogger Brian]

brian though the choice is urs as this is ur blog
but you may regret in future..

and keeping your age factor in mind
i wish you start doing some good purpose work rather than doing all this..

[Account Deleted]

[Manish, I edit your comments to delete personal attacks, and I delete any comment that is completely inappropriate. Relax, and start taking part in discussions here. Insulting me isn't a "discussion." Light a candle; stop cursing the darkness -- Blogger Brian]

brian again your deleting my messages which are not necessary to delete ....it at all..

why why why you are behaving like a coward...brian..

is this all you have gained till now from your experience in life

[Account Deleted]

i m not insulting at all

though the outcome of my expression may sound like insulting
but its the right deserve comment for that person

-

[Amit Singh]

Seeing the funny discussions about GURUs - I am going to add some food for thought as I too have spent many years of my life chasing this rabbit.

Suggestions About GURUs
-----------------------

1. Avoid those Gurus who claim that they are enlightened.

2. Avoid those Gurus who "demand" that you follow/obey/serve them.

3. Avoid Gurus who claim that only they have the power to "save you" and "free you" from bondage.

4. Avoid Gurus who proclaim a doomsday scenario to you in case you leave them or do not follow them.

This means that about 99.99% of Gurus world-wide are frauds (including the millions of enlightened Gurus in my beloved India :)

Guru Positives:

a. Those Gurus who make it clear that they are only signposts and the real work needs to be done by the seeker.

b. Gurus who avoid or are inhibited by this Guru/servant practice.

c. Gurus who say that there are many many ways to realize truth and they just offer one possibility.

d. Gurus who encourage universal love, unity and inclusiveness instead of exclusivity.

e. Who seem and behave like normal nice people (and not as if they are in some angry/serious/mysterious divine state etc.)

f. Gurus who encourage diversity and do not claim special status for themselves and their followers.

A few examples which I can think of are :

0. Your Inner SELF
1. Ramana Maharshi
2. Mooji
3. Nisargadatta
4. Jiddu Krishnamurty
5. Poonja
6. Rumi
etc.

The most important thing about gurus, which I believe and have realized, is to know that the real guru is inside you. It is your true SELF. It is awake at all times but most ignore it. So they end up chasing an external guru (and pay the price for blind faith).

So start believing in your own divinity. Be calm, be attentive, be self-aware, Be still. Start practicing this and soon the true guru inside you will shine forth like never before.

Cheers !!

[tAo]

Amit,

Your excellent comments, points, and advice are all clear and well said. And I quite agree with you. It is actually refreshing to have someone with your perspective join us here. So I hope you do stick around.

I also appreciate those sages that you mentioned, although I myself am not much of a fan of Tolle. Tolle is way too over-hyped and mass-marketed and too much fluff for my taste. He never addresses the real issues, and there is a reason for that. But if you find his mediorcre offerings agreeable or inspiring, then so be it. I just don't see much real substance there myself. However I am definitely rather fond of Sri Ramana and Nisargadatta, and even J. Krishnamurti to some extent. But on the other hand again, I don't have any interest in the new-bie neo-advaitist copy-cats like that fellow Mooji. I would much rather suggest to you that you look into what U.G. Krishnamurti has to say.

Well I really just wanted to say that I appreciate and agree with your commments about the Radha Soami sects, which are insightful and generally right-on-target over all. And feel free to elaborate anytime.

[Obscrene]

tAo/Brian said
"Well I really just wanted to say that I appreciate and agree with your commments about the Radha Soami sects, which are insightful and generally right-on-target over all. And feel free to elaborate anytime."

No surprise, except you have forgotten to be your usual tAo self and are writing much more like Brian
Fotgot which sig you were using Brian LOL

[George]

tAo

I was reading some past comments and it seems you view the Hare Krishna's more favourably than the RS?

However, you appear to be fiercely critical of RS that you percieve to be dogmatic and a guru cult oganisation. I'm not sure i really appreciate any significant different between RS and the hare hare's.

I am genuinely interesting in if you consider it possible to reach the godhead by reciting the krishna mantra and what this actually means in simple terms?

[tAo]

Well boys and girls...

I have some very uhh dense and heavy news to share with you that will absolutely dwarf all of this ridiculous and lame-brained nonsense that Brian has finally had to make fun of above.

It's a rather long article, but as you will see, it is well worth the read... but, you must hold off any premature conclusions until you have read the entire thing.

This may well be the most powerful and earth-shaking scientific news that you will ever encounter. Seriously. No joke.

So I urge everyone to read this asap, and then do whatever you will with the information.

I would also guess that this will put everything you have assmumed up to this point into a much broader and more sober perspective.

And perhaps being seed-savers and earth-diggers is the only sensible way to proceed... unless you're ready to do the shake & bake, that is.

In any case, whatever you do choose, be sure to read this article thoroughly first:

http://www.rense.com/general86/boom.htm

[Blogger Brian]

tAo, there's always two sides to a story, including one about a possible supernova.

Here's some less end-of-the-world-ish takes on the star's seeming 15% shrinkage:

http://blogs.discovery.com/space_disco/2009/06/warning-betelgeuse-is-shrinking-supernova-or-supernothing.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betelgeuse (see "Fate")

Even the author of the piece you linked to says there's nothing to be alarmed about, because there's nothing we can do about it.

Here's the press release of the folks who discovered the shrinkage:

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2009/06/09_betelim.shtml

They're continuing to monitor the star, so it'll be interesting to learn how Betelgeuse fares in the future.

[tAo]

Lets take a vote. How many folks here really think that I am really Brian, and vice versa? Come on you you guys, don't be shy, everybody please cast their vote. And please be honest.

Obscrene (or should I say JAP?) and Manish certainly seem to think so. But what about the rest of you? I know who I am, and Brian knows who he is, but what does eveyone else think?

Then again, maybe I don't know who I am. Am I really Brian? Hmmm. Or is Brian really me? Hmmm. Maybe Tucson is the real guy behind the curtain, like in the Wizard of Oz. Maybe there is no Brian or tAo. Maybe there is really nobody here at all. Maybe George is doing some kind of scientific experiment.

Or maybe this is all just a trick of Kal just to lure Manish into wasting his time instead of doing his meditation.

Or maybe Brian and tAo and Tucson and Roger and Osho and George and many others are really all none other than the RS satguru (and his hi-tech internet staff) over in Beas masquerading in order to check up to see how genuinely devoted his disciples and satsangis really are.

Has anyone actually checked to see whether Brian and tAo and all the rest mentioned originate from the same IP address in India? And then again, maybe its really all just Tony Jonnes down there Puerto Rico posting via fake IPs and using fake IDs.

There's alot of possibilities here you know.

Maybe... Brian is really actually tAo, and tAo is the real mastermind behind this all who is fooling everyone. Heh Heh Heh. Gotcha! Maybe I'll stop posting as "Blogger Brian" for awhile and then see if Manish can tell the difference.

But first, let's not jumpt to conclusions but be fair and take a vote and see. What do y'all say? Is tAo really Brian, or is Brian really tAo, or is each one a different joker?

[tAo]

Well yes, I know Brian, there is nothing anyone can do. I was just presenting something thought provoking, not necessarily promoting a doomsday thing. Thanks for the links to alternative info.

[shamanut]

Betelgeuse Goes BOOM!

Beautiful, magnificent, brilliant.

and so we come face to face with reality.

Mini dissolution on the cards, hooray, about time, like time and space playing itself out in this little corner of our grand Pinda.

Sooner or later the fragment of the illusion gets dissolved, one way or the other, no thing is permanent, no material entity whatsoever.

So come on all you big brave skeptics, Uncle Sam needs your help again.

This time Pentagon and NASA got no clue. When or if Betelgeuse decides to go BOOM, if it hasn't done so already and we don't quite know when those 400 light years ago started, then all human escapade gets nullified back to the zero, back to the grandiose primordial soup, back to the beginning, don't collect your jail pass as you pass by GO!

All over Rover, now lets start guessing once more who's who in the zoo.

Love it.. time for armageddon, get your soul on the firing line, just too magnificent for words. And these glorified soothsaying churchless know it alls don't have a goddam clue..about nada, no thing, bugger all, zilch, f'all.

Sweet hallelujah we gonna have a party if and when Betelgeuse goes BOOM.

[George]

if it all goes boom, all the churchified know-it-alls with their absolute truths and gurus get to put their beliefs to the test too.

Its only a matter of time before something went boom or bang or whack, ending it all, the question was always going to be whether one of the next earth extinguishing events would take long enough for the highest lifeforms to develop the technology to be able to escape this planet and colonise other planets.

Then the NASA know-it-alls will be sitting pretty.

[George]

I reckon if the earth is in tact for the next 200 hundred years or so, humans would have the necessary technology to terra-form lifeless planets and to travel to those outside of our solar system, thereby increasing the chances of the survival of the human species (or any others taken with them) massively.

Hell who knows in 200 years perhaps we'll have the know-it-all to be able to clone, replicate and create satgurus for some spiritual perfection?

[tucson]

It doesn't matter if its beetlejuice, typhoon, earthquake or food poisoning each of us has a personal armageddon coming for sure if not today, next week or 100 years from now. But its coming. We get all bent out of shape about these potential natural disasters as if otherwise we are immortal.

[tAo]

Catch a glimpse - coming soon to a theatre near you:

http://whowillsurvive2012.com

[tAo]

No worries for me... I've got my imperishable bunker in Sach Khand all set up and ready to go. Its even equipped with a super-nova powered BOOM-box and a life-time supply of Wheatabix (inside joke). I may even have some extra room for a very select few of marked souls, but all depending on whether their donation is large enough (but it muct be in pure gold or gems only - no rupees, euros, or dollars will be accepted). Send your applications to Sant Madness Inc. in c/o tAo.

[Sceptic]

When browsing the internet, the sites one finds can fall into one of several categories. Examples are:
Factual, sites like Wikipedia, many scientific sites, university sites and so on.
Then there are fictional sites, and there are many many in this class
There are also religious sites, either preaching their brand of belief, or knocking those other brands

So where does Church of the Churchless fall
Despite the many occasions of claiming the superiority of science, there is NOTHING scientific or factual on this site. So the first category does not define this site.

Fiction, well plenty of unsupported statements, but the intent is not fictional, it is more release of Brians ego type site

So religious site it is, especially when one considered the delight that seems to surround general religion bashing especially RSSB bashing. To bash the beliefs of another is so much easier than to come up with something worthy of serious consideration

Perhaps the point is to simply admit to not knowing and that is the conclusion? Great, then admit it and stop bashing others, let them get on with their belief in peace