A dialogue about Radha Soami Satsang Beas

A few days ago I posted a message from Shiloh, "The anguish of losing a loved one to exotic religion." That was part of my communications with her.

Here's the other part: a question and answer dialogue we had about Radha Soami Satsang Beas, the India-based spiritual organization that is the exotic religion Shiloh was concerned about.

We exchanged several email messages after Shiloh wrote to me, asking if I'd help her better understand the organization that I was an active member of for many years.

Here's our Q & A exchange, starting with some introductory remarks and moving to eight questions about Radha Soami Satsang Beas.

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Shiloh: I will be very grateful if you can help me with these questions, Brian, since I feel you are in a unique position to evaluate this movement with your years of involvement and the books you wrote associated with Radhasoami.

It seems to me that your seemingly ‘fruitless’ investment of thirty-eight amazingly patient years, has become an immensely valuable grounding for your post in its role of revealing to other seekers the pitfalls and time-wasting illusions of this particular path.

Especially since I dearly love and care about my sister, I personally feel deeply grateful for your openness and honesty about your experiences, which must ultimately save many souls much needless pain and confusion. So thank you for valuable work and whatever time and consideration you give to this particular letter.

Brian: No problem. Re. the paragraph above, I wouldn't say "fruitless." I gained a lot from my involvement with RSSB. For most of the three decades plus I was quite content. Sort of similar to my first marriage. Getting divorced doesn't take away all of the loving times. It just means that after the loving, a distancing occurred.

You might mean by "fruitless," though, that I didn't soar to higher regions of reality. If so, this presumes that such exist. Or that it is important to reach those realms to be "spiritual." Now, I'm not so sure. Some see this as sour grapes, a result of failed meditation. But to me it feels more like an understanding that inner and outer, spirit and matter, soul and body aren't so different. Maybe not different at all. 

Shiloh: Sorry you misunderstood me. I thought if I wrote ‘seemingly’  before ‘fruitless’ and encased ‘fruitless’  itself in inverted comas I would convey that this is not my personal feeling but how it could appear to others.

Here’s my questions, your answers, and my comments on your answers:

(1)  Is it true that one is required to pledge life-long loyalty to the Sant Mat master upon initiation?

Brian: Yes, this is true. It is supposed to be a life-long commitment. But of course, many initiates drop out along the way. Sort of like marriage. The vow is "till death do you part," but divorces are common anyway.

Shiloh: This ruling was surely designed to make any initiate wishing to drop out because of doubts, feel especially guilty and bad.


(2)  Is an initiate encouraged to meditate on an image – whether mental or photographic – of the master?

Brian: In the Charan Singh days, no. You had to have seen the guru in person. Then you could visualize his form (face/eyes) during meditation. This is part of the reason I went to the Dera in 1977, because I'd been initiated for almost seven years and hadn't seen Charan Singh in person.

Shiloh: Whatever the template used for this visualization, I find it suspicious, since in the pliable astral sphere, long-held thoughts become things. This tells me that disciples are being encouraged to build their own thought forms of the master which they could then see and mistake for his radiant form if they are ever successful in leaving the body.

Which further tells me that the master has no confidence in his own ability to appear in his light body to any out-of-the-body satsangis. This combined with praying for the Guru’s grace puts one in mind of the Christian biblical exhortation not to worship graven images.

(3)  Are satsangis encouraged to ‘pray’ to the master and to expect mental interaction with him about such petitions?

Brian: Well, not really. Surrender is encouraged more than prayer, in the sense of prayer being asking for specific things to happen. Praying for the guru's grace is encouraged, though. That's pretty much what meditation is about, in a sense. An initiate isn't told to expect a response to prayer. Certainly not "mental interaction."

Shiloh: Since one surrenders oneself to the will of the Guru and prays to him (if only for grace) the master clearly replaces God in the satsangi’s life, usurping what many would feel should be the Creator’s unique role in human lives.

(4)  Does the movement’s hierarchy hint at earthly or afterlife harm for satsangis who leave, thus ensuring uneasiness about ever leaving?

Brian: Yes. The idea is that once initiated, you're stuck to the guru/God forever -- the bulldozer metaphor that you might have heard of. Meaning, if you’re chained to a bulldozer, no matter how much you try to move in a different direction, you’ll end up going where the bulldozer does.

One RSSB devotee has been threatening me with Sant Mat hellfire for having questions about the path. I don't know about earthly harm, but lack of faith in the guru incurs some training/discipline after death, I seem to recall reading in some of the books.

Shiloh: This confirms my uneasiness about this movement setting up a premeditated trap, which the novice, after initiation, cannot easily extricate himself from emotionally. It seems to me that few uncertain souls (stressed-out and sleepless - especially at first - due to the long hours of meditation) would find the courage to risk such a fate no matter how disillusioned they may feel.

(5)  Are Kal and the mind used to dispel the disciple’s rational assessment of the master and his words and actions?

Brian: Absolutely. Questioning is supposed to happen before initiation. Afterwards, the initiate is warned to beware of Kal, the Universal Mind who stood on one foot for eons and earned the right from God to rule the lower regions of creation. (Shiloh: Great heavens! How spiritually athletic!)  Kal's job is to keep souls here, and the mind is his means of doing so.

Shiloh: I rest my case. The above-mentioned attitude nullifies the checks and balances ingrained into our very souls to guard against deception. Willfully giving up the critical mind must indefinitely commit one to labor, with dwarfed mentality, through a spiritual never-never land where the only hope of eventual rescue is through painful disillusionment. Since my sister defensively denied that there was any such requirement, she obviously knows, deep down, how dubious this is.

(6)  Do you know of anyone who has seen (first hand) the current master accompanied by machine-gun-bearing guards?

Brian: I went to India, to the Dera headquarters of RSSB, in 1998 to finish my book Life is Fair. While there, I saw Gurinder Singh walking around accompanied just as you said, by machine gun bearing guards. It was a bit surprising. But also understandable, given the tensions in the Punjab.

Shiloh: I agree. But only because I think the master is a mere man and not God.  If I thought he was God, seeing him protected by guns would blow my mind: after all how could God protect anyone else if he could not protect his own incarnated form without physical guards bearing material weapons?

I cannot imagine how this behavior squares up with those believing him to be God. Further, if God is love why would he even attract enemies? After all, Jesus’ death was apparently destined to save mankind and he did not arm himself against it but offered himself up to those who wanted him killed. And if God, embodied as the present guru, wanted to remain on earth longer, why couldn’t he make his earthly instrument safe without the offensive bad-example use of weaponry? After all no one is holding a gun to his head! (Or are they?)

Thinking of the current master as a man, I’ve just experienced my first pang of empathy.  I believe he was a reluctant successor – and  how terrible it must be to have to spend your entire life pretending to be God. How ghastly must be the constant scrutiny and the act of putting on a holy front and the continual dread of doing or saying something ungodly?

Hold on: even if any mistakes are made, the secret of his true human identity would remain safe with so many adoring satsangis primed to put a profound spin onto any awkward accidents! There seems little room for truth in god-man movements.

(7)  Is it true that satsangis are subtly pressured to donate money or property to the movement?

Brian: In my experience, subtly. Not overtly. I don't know what it is like in the Indian community.

Shiloh: I’m glad you mentioned the latter since I suspect that pushing for donations might be more easier and acceptable among faith based, notoriously blindly-believing Asian communities, and thus may be much more blatant there. This of course reveals the usual motive behind so many religious charades: money and possessions and the power that accompanies these things.

(8)  Is it an observable fact that the current master lives lavishly and travels in luxury?

Brian: Don't know if you have read the post on my blog by the Caribbean guy. Here's a link. He addressed this subject.

Shiloh: Thanks. Having now read this, I must confess it confirms my early belief that the current master seems more preoccupied with physical pleasure and material possessions than with the spiritual evolution of his fellow man.

Comments

[Roger]

Yes, I was never interested in the "RSSB initiation" issue. I do enjoy an occasional book review on a particular topic. Hopefully, we can return to such more often.

[tAo]

hmmm... my spiritual intuition senses a comment deletion coming.

[KAMAL ARORA]

IS ANY GOD ON EARTH IF YES THEN WHARE IS HE

[Parm]

Enjoy the link "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mOI1hAbDuw"

[Anirudh Kumar Satsangi]

Surat Shabd Yoga is a type of meditation in which we concentrate to meditate at sixth chakra. Surat Shabd Yoga is 3-in-1. It is a comprehensive yoga practice in which all the three yoga viz., mantra yoga (repetition of holy name), dhyan yoga (contemplation or meditation) and shabd or nad yoga are combined. Scientific significance of practice of Surat Shabd Yoga can be understood from my following comments:

PRACTICE OF YOGA AND DEVELOPMENT OF SPIRITUAL QUOTIENT

Religion and Yoga reflect identical meaning. Religion (re-ligare) means union again with Ultimate Reality or binding back to Absolute. Yoga is the derivative of Sanskrit root ‘yuj’ which means yoking of power of body, mind and soul. Yoga primarily consists of concentration, meditation and realization apart from practicing asans, mudras and breath control which help to achieve concentration and physical and emotional well-being. Yoga is experimental technique of spiritualism. Religion is blend of ritual and spiritual. Rituals dominate religion these days. Whereas rituals are altogether not necessary for practicing yoga.
Yoga in India has been practiced since the dawn of the human civilization, according to Hindu mythology millions of year back.
In Bhagavad-Gita Lord SriKrishna says to Arjuna:
“I taught this immortal Yoga to Vivasvan (sun-god), Vivasvan conveyed it to Manu(his son), and Manu imparted it to (his son) Iksvaku. Thus transmitted to succession from father to son, Arjuna, this Yoga remained known to the Rajarisis (royal sages). It has however long since disappeared from this earth. The same ancient Yoga has this day been imparted to you by Me, because you are My devotee and friend, and also because this is a supreme secret”.
At this Arjuna said: You are of recent origin while the birth of Vivasvan dates back to remote antiquity. How, then, I am to believe that you taught this Yoga at the beginning of creation? Lord SriKrishna said: Arjuna, you and I have passed through many births. I remember them all, you do not remember.

Famous historian Romila Thapar has described in her book A History of India about the status of Yoga in 300-700 A.D. She writes: “Yoga (Application) which was based on the control of the body physically and implied that a perfect control over the body and the senses led to knowledge of the ultimate reality. A detailed anatomical knowledge of the human body was necessary to the advancement of yoga and therefore those practising yoga had to keep in touch with medical knowledge.”
As far as anatomical knowledge of human body is concerned it is very much required for the optimum result during practice of Yoga. Yoga system has very close connection with the human anatomy i.e. chakra or nerve centres distributed along the spinal column and in brain region.
Besides, connection chakras with the practice of Yoga, chakra has also great role in the development of personality. People do not realise that personalities can grow to include a balance of all the six chakras. Jung referred to this growth process as “individuation”, and associated it with life’s spiritual dimension. Danah Zohar evolves a model of spiritual quotient (sq) based on the six petals of a lotus and its centre, corresponding to the seven chakras described by the Hinduism’s Kundalini Yoga, as an aid to the process of individuation in the mid-1990s. Contribution of Danah Zohar for coining the term spiritual quotient for the first time is immense. But she did not establish any mathematical relationship, which is very much required, for this quotient.

Deepak Chopra has given a formula of spiritual quotient in terms of Deed (D) and Ego (E). According to Deepak Chopra S.Q. =D/E. He (2006) writes: If Vedanta is right and there is only one reality, then all desires must follow the same mechanics, desires arise and are fulfilled in consciousness. Making yourself happy involves ….. I have a ” Spiritual Quotient” where SQ = D/E. Where D = Deeds and E = Ego. Now you can ONLY have an SQ = infinity when E = 0. If E is little even then SQ is approaching infinity (or one is close to be a “Great Master”) but not actually “Pure .This appears to be very fascinating but it is highly abstract which cannot be measured experimentally, accurately and precisely. However, this formula has immense value to understand S.Q.

I have also discovered a mathematical relationship for S.Q about eight years back in 2001. I have used physiological parameters which can be measured accurately and precisely and can be tested and verified experimentally. According to this formula S.Q. can be expressed as the ratio of parasympathetic dominance (P.D.) to sympathetic dominance (S.D.). Parasympathetic nervous system (PSNS) and sympathetic nervous system (SNS) are the two parts of the autonomic nervous system (ANS) which is largely under hypothalamic control. Hypothalamus is situated very close to the Sixth Chakra. During practice of meditation at Sixth Chakra these centres are galvanized which has very positive effect on practitioners spiritual, emotional, psychological and physical well being.

According to this relationship spiritual quotient can be written as:
S.Q. = P.D./S.D.
If the value of S.Q. comes >1 (greater than one), it can be assumed that the person is moving towards self-realisation and if the value of S.Q. comes <1 (smaller than one) it can be predicted that the person is living under stress.

There are various types of meditation available, which are being practiced by sages, saints, seers and others. The difference in various versions lies in the fact that these practices involve concentration to meditate at different centres known as Chakra in Yoga System. These chakras are, in fact, energy centres which correspond to nerve centres distributed along the spinal column and in brain region.
Some practitioners start to meditate at Basic/Root Chakra (Muladhara) – situated at the base of spine, some at Heart Chakra (Anahata Chakra), some at Ajna Chakra – Optic Chiasma – Master Chakra and some from even higher centres situated in the brain region. Among all these types of meditation, practice at sixth chakra is considered to be the most ideal which brings about optimum results.

Sixth Chakra is situated very close to hypothalamus. The hypothalamus is a portion of brain that contains a number of small nuclei with a variety of functions. One of the most important functions of the hypothalamus is to link nervous system to the endocrine system via the pituitary glands.
Autonomic nervous system (ANS) is largely under hypothalamic control. ANS consists of parasympathetic nervous system (PSNS) and sympathetic nervous system (SNS). PSNS is activated during meditative calm and during stress SNS is activated. When PSNS is activated, heart rate, breathing rate, blood pressure decreased. Supply of blood in the digestive tract increased. When SNS is activated heart rate, breathing rate, blood pressure increased. Supply of blood to the muscles and exterior organs increased and to the digestive tract decreased. In addition to these, there are many other parameters which can be compared. Parasympathetic Dominance (P.D.) is the state of PSNS activation and Sympathetic Dominance (S.D.) is the state of SNS activation. Instruments are available in medical science to measure these parameters.

Now we can assign numerical value to each parameter. Then put the value in the formula for S.Q. and see the result. We can show the calculation as mentioned below:

S.Q.= P.D./S.D. = Σ X / Σ Y
Where X=x1+x2+x3+ …….
And Y=y1+y2+y3+…….

During PSNS activation (P.D.), we assign ‘1’ to each parameter (x1+x2+x3+…..) and ‘0’ to each parameter (y1+y2+y3+…..). During SNS activation (S.D.), we assign ‘1’ to each parameter (y1+y2+y3+…) and ‘0’ to each parameter (x1+x2+x3+….).

By putting the numerical value, thus achieved, in the above formula for S.Q. we can calculate the Spiritual Quotient of an individual.

[tucson]

S.Q.= P.D./S.D. = Σ X / Σ Y
Where X=x1+x2+x3+ …….
And Y=y1+y2+y3+……. which = BS

[Roger]

Gosh tucson, what does the BS stand for? I'm guessing, something highly spiritual, in a mathematical way.

[sonam]

nice to watch like this about santmat..radha soami ji.

[Nietzsche]

Nice to see that someone calculated BS :)

[sanatan panthi]

There are so many comments have given by all as they feel but I want to ask one question from RS people why your guru ji cricise the Sanatan Dharam. Do they know what is yajna or what is the meaning of Sh Madbhagwat Geeta or Ramayana or what were the teachings of Saint Kabir Sahib ji,Surdasji,Namadevji or other saints. If you dont want to follow their teachings then why they are being quoted in books. Is this not a wrong. You people say dont go to Mandir or Gurudwara but any where in Mandir I dont know if it stated not to go Beas. Is it not fake. What is this?. Is is not against the belief of humanity?.

[hinduism]

very good the RS people. Now the GOD will be discovered with the calculations like'S.Q.= P.D./S.D. = Σ X / Σ Y
Where X=x1+x2+x3+ …….
And Y=y1+y2+y3+……. The great calculations. Similar calculations are being done at the end of Religre and Others end. Great but it was not the funda of Hinduism. Go to Beas and hear what they say on Hinduism and other. Believe me, if a real Hindu will hear, he definitely will not go there, not only to go there but also never think for any relations with such people.

[hinduism]

Kamal ji, go to a Sanatani Real Saint, definitely Bhagwan ji is there and their and really His 'SWARUP' is there can be realized with 'SWASH' and with the help of SURAT and NIRAT.