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Here's a great example of how unsupported religious beliefs get mixed up with politics and foreign policy, helping lead to war:
Slides of former Bush defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld's briefings to the White House where he juxtaposed war images with inspirational Bible quotes.
Take a look.
Posted at 10:28 AM in Politics | Permalink
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daaa, that's not what led to the last war.
It was commercial airplanes being flown into skyscrapers and things like that. They
weren't u.s. citizens or christians.
you can just as easily find those quotes againest war.
besides what's wrong with killin all those pricks anyway. Theres no god right? Makes for a better future (if the libs aren't successful in snatch defeat from victory).
May 18, 2009 at 11:35 AM
cyfer, I said "helping lead to war." Obviously false intelligence about Iraq's supposed weapons of mass destruction also played a big part.
My point is just that when the Bush administration said "this is not a war between religions," actually a very high ranking official, Rumsfeld, was viewing the war as a crusade of sorts.
Pretty scary. Wars should only be fought for very good reasons. Religious belief never should play a part in going to war.
May 18, 2009 at 11:45 AM
What should play a part in going to war?
Robert Paul Howard
Robert Paul Howard |
May 18, 2009 at 12:16 PM
Robert, national defense. Having one's security seriously threatened by another country. Same reasons, basically, as would lead someone to defend their home against an intruder. It shouldn't matter what religion the other guy is, or what your religion is -- just whether your security and safety is being threatened.
May 18, 2009 at 12:31 PM
Would you have sided with the northern or the southern troops in the Civil War?
Robert Paul Howard |
May 18, 2009 at 12:41 PM
Robert, haven't given this much thought. North, I suppose. Civil wars obviously are a different kind of war. Political or cultural, rather than being based on national defense (obviously, since no outside attacker is involved). My earlier comment, and this post, concerns wars of national defense.
May 18, 2009 at 12:47 PM
Cyfer, you said:
"that's not what led to the last war.
It was commercial airplanes being flown into skyscrapers and things like that. They
weren't u.s. citizens or christians."
-- Hey Cyfer, you really don't know what the hell you are talking about. You are still stuck in the absurd "official conspiracy" propaganda that is now 8 years out of date and is nothing but a load of twisted lies and disinformation.
Here's just a mere few of the many things in the mountain of evidence that says you (and the official story) are full of crap:
The attack and invasion of Iraq was in fact planned long before 9/11. The planes flown into the WTC and Pentagon were not by a mere handful of Arab Moslems (non-christians) with little box cutters. The WTC buildings did not fall to the ground and get pulverized into a pile of toxic concrete dust and molten metal from a mere plane and some jet fuel. A tiny fire did not cause Building 7 to collapse perfectly into its own footprint - it was brought down by demolition which had to have been set up weeks or more ahead of time. There was hi-tech Thermite residue throughout the wreckage of the WTC. There was never any large 757 jet that hit the Pentagon, as there was no substantial wreckage and no bodies, and no photos have been released even though there were literally dozens upon dozens upon dopzens of high-reolution video security cameras surrounding the Pentagon on all sides.... and the list goes on and on for miles.
So Cyfer, its time to wake up out of your "it was all done by those crazy Moslem bastards" mentality.
You also said: "besides what's wrong with killin all those pricks anyway. Theres no god right? Makes for a better future"
-- Thats a terribly sick mentality you have. And its not any kind of joke either. Well over a million innocent people have been killed in Iraq, many thousands of US soldiers, and countless more Iraqis and Americans and others have been severely injured, poisoned by radioactive DU (depleted uranium), and the suffering and terror to all involved has been beyond comprehension. Those people were not "pricks". The real pricks are the satanic DEMONS that planned and instigated all this out of their own insatiable lust for money and power, and to bully the world into submission, tyrannize the USA, dismantle the US Constitution, and ultimately bring about a world government global totalitarian fascist police state, ruled by the super-rich.
May 18, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Although my sympathies also lay with the "North" in the American Civil War, I am also aware that many in the old-time "South" felt that their "security [was] seriously threatened by another country," which led them "to defend their home against an intruder." They, too, felt that their "security and safety...[was] being threatened."
I suspect that some few Germans who did not wholly support the Nazi movement also thought they needed to support their national "security and safety" against foreign intruders just as well - failing to see the more immediately internal threat.
I suggest that "national defense" needs be thought out a bit more fully.
Robert Paul Howard |
May 18, 2009 at 01:14 PM
To me the issue with Rumsfeld and how he used the Christian jargon is how well he knew to work the president who was like an immature child. It works equally well with so many Americans who love the quotes and pay no attention to the facts or logic behind any of it. Manipulation has been the one thing the GOP know how to do well; and Rumsfeld, who is not noted for being particularly religious himself, was a master at it. He and Cheney made quite the team.
May 18, 2009 at 04:45 PM
Very nicely said tAo!
May 19, 2009 at 01:41 PM
tao, you are truely delusional. You poor thing. you actually believe that bush launched an attack into the world trade
What else is happening that we all don't know about? Were there aliens in whitehouse too? Is bush really the devil ?
War is hell buddy boy, that's why it has to be stopped before it's started. Pretending that threats aren't real leads to bigger and bigger wars.
Sadam should of been wiped out after he invaded kuwait.. it would stopped all that. It's good to be ride of him now before he able to finish getting nuclear weapons.
Also, your statisics are greatly exaggerated.
May 20, 2009 at 11:45 AM
the war isn't about religion brian.
Rumsfield was secretary of defense, what would you expect to see from him "surrender
now gods hates you". A unilaterally intellectual competition, with no soul or passion, is garantteed failure.
May 20, 2009 at 11:50 AM
all of you,
as flamming liberals none of you could ever
find a reason to defend the united states.
you all will always find reason why we are an evil nation and will work hard for the defeat of this country.
If this country were made of your types this country would never be. All civilization is built on blood.
May 20, 2009 at 12:02 PM
Hey little boy Cyfer,
YOU are the one who is "delusional". YOU are the one who is ignorant. You are the one who is
A.) I DO NOT "believe", nor did I ever say (or imply), as YOU HAVE SAID: "that bush launched an attack into the world trade center". YOU said that, not I. I said nothing whatsoever about Bush. So right off the bat, you are totally misrespresenting me. And again, (this is visible proof that) you obviously do not know what you are talking about.
B.) I also did NOT say that "we all don't know about". I also said nothing about any "aliens" or "the devil"... YOU have said this. You have no right to put words in my mouth, or twist my words into something that I dis not say. That is dishonest of you, and makes you a liar.
C.) You clearly know nothing about "War", nor about the Iraq war. And you are obviously the little "boy" in this case. You have no idea what or who "started" that war.
D.) I am not "Pretending" any such thing. So therfore you have no clue as to what "threats" there were, or are. From your comment/reaction/response, it is more than obvious to those who ARE in the know, that you are totally ignorant of the critical facts. You are basically willingly stuck in mainstream-media-propaganda bullshit and dreamland. Your conspiracy theory is evidence of that. The reality is that you know nothing about the the real facts of 9/11 or Iraq. You are just an immature little boy who likes to talk big.
E.) I said NOTHING about "Sadam" or about "kuwait". Also, it is well known that Sadam had nothing to do with 9/11. And NO, removing Sadam during the first Gulf War (Kuwait) would NOT have "stopped all that". Furthermore, fyi, Sadam was nowhere near "getting nuclear weapons". Not even remotely. Your entire premise is ignorant and faulty. You have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. NONE whatsoever. You have never been in a War, you have never worked in the government or in military intelligence, and you know nothing about situation in the Middle-East. But I HAVE, and I DO. And I say that you are full of shit, and you know nothing about Iraq, nothing about 9/11, and nothing about the PNAC or its agenda. And you definitely don't know a damn thing about ME either. You are just a pretentious immature poseur, a wimpy little bag of hot-air... not to mention a phony conservative.
F.) But yes, you got one thing right... the war was/is NOT at all "about religion".
G.) YOU Cyfer, have said (quote): "all of you, as flamming liberals none of you could ever find a reason to defend the united states."
-- Well let me tell YOU something, you pretentious lying stinking un-American little piece of SHIT:
#1. I am NOT a "liberal". I am NOT a Socialist. I am NOT a Communist. And I am NOT a Fascist. I am a very Conservative Libertarian and a Constitutionalist. So you have no justification or right to call me a "flaming liberal".
#2. As a matter of fact, I HAVE DEFENDED the United States. I HAVE fought in war for my country. I HAVE fought for YOUR right to have liberty and justice and exercise YOUR free speech. Have you fought for this country? I don't think so. And I HAVE had "a reason to defend the united states". As a matter of fact, I know, and I have experienced a great deal about what WAR is like... but YOU DON'T and YOU HAVEN'T. You are just a stupid little wimp with a big stupid mouth.
#3. But YOU have NO damn right or reason to call me a "flaming liberal". Compared to ME, YOU are the one who is the "flaming liberal".
H.) I NEVER said "we are an evil nation" nor have I or would I ever "work hard for the defeat of this country". I have fought for YOUR right to liberty and to speak your opinions. But YOU are a nothing but a spoiled stupid little brat who has no idea what he is talking about. And not only that, but "if this country were made of" YOUR type immature snot-nosed little pricks, "this country would never be". You know NOTHING about "civilization" or about "blood", or what it is to be a patriot and an honorable man.
SO... GO FUCK YOURSELF CYFER. You are nothing but a dishonest, lying, ignorant, and un-American little WORM. Go back to sucking your thumb and playing in your playpen where you belong, little boy.
May 20, 2009 at 03:46 PM
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