"Churchless" is a 360 degree perspective

Thanks again to Shin for sharing his or her doubts about Radha Soami Satsang Beas, which formed a recent post. I've enjoyed the comments also.

These thoughts have, not surprisingly, gotten me thinking ... about my own evolution from a fervent RSSB true believer to who I am now.

It's sort of tough to encapsulate my current state in a few words, like I used to be able to do with "RSSB initiate" or "RSSB disciple." This is progress.

Before, my spiritual focus was narrow. Even though I read widely in other traditions -- Sufism, mystical Christianity, Greek philosophy -- I was mostly interested in how these teachings related to the Sant Mat belief system.

I was looking for truth along a narrow section of the philosophical, or spiritual, horizon.

While I was more open-minded than most religious believers, I'd still put on devotional blinders that prevented me from seeing that really real reality could lie in a considerably different direction from where I was facing.

That was toward a guru, a dualistic theology, a rigid set of lifestyle commandments, a well-defined meditation approach, an obedience-demanding organization that didn't tolerate dissent.

There are other ways. A multitude of ways. Maybe even an infinity.

Because if there is one thing humans have learned about ultimate reality, it is that we know nothing about ultimate reality. Nothing for certain, for sure.

So a sincere truth seeker shouldn't forestall any possibilities. Reality can lie in any direction; a 360 degree perspective needs to be embraced. We don't want truth to tip-toe up behind us and remain unnoticed as we gaze in the opposite direction.

Shin brought up the subject of meditation. I still meditate every morning. Now, though, it's with a who knows? attitude. For example:

Who knows...?
whether God exists
whether consciousness continues after death
whether any existent divinity is personal or impersonal
whether minds can connect non-physically
whether psychic stillness leads to deeper reality waters
whether we can even ask cogent questions about the cosmos

I sure don't.

So I sit down on my meditation cushion with a let's see and show me. I might start off with a churchless prayer that goes something like this.

Hey, God, if you exist, I'm here. Show me what you're like. Or if any other entity is aware of me -- angel, guru, disembodied soul, advanced alien being, whatever or whoever -- let's have a chat. My consciousness is open for truth-business, so long as you've got good intentions (I'd just as soon not meet up with demonic presences, though even that could be interesting). 

This sort of talk is directed at the possibility that some being can communicate with me. Since I don't know what or who this might be, I put out a "Welcome" sign for Allah, Jesus, Buddha, Jehovah, Krishna, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or anyone else who wants to drop by my awareness.

So far my meditation has been pretty damn solitary, however. This leads me to suspect that the really real reality I'm looking for isn't outside of me, but rather is me.

Which isn't an original suspicion, of course, since some version of that hypothesis lies at the root of almost every deep mystical teaching or philosophy. Heck, it's even how I started off my book about Plotinus (which is one of my favorite sentences in the 369 pages).

If something has been lost and you're not sure where to look for it, there's good reason to start searching right where you are rather than far afield.

It's good to have a 360 degree perspective. But that doesn't necessarily mean looking far away toward a distant horizon. 

Meister Eckhart, a medieval Christian mystic, put it this way:

The eye with which I see God is exactly the same eye with which God sees me. My eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowledge and one love.

What's more all-encompassing and 360 degree'ish than one?

Comments

[Obed]

Dear Brian,
You wrote
"What's more all-encompassing and 360 degree'ish than one."
I would very humbly suggest "0"
Kindest and best regards
Obed

[Brian]

Obed, I thought about ending the post with a O (or 0). But it struck me that zero and one are pretty much, maybe exactly, the same thing.

Not in a mathematical sense, but in an existential sense, because experientially nothingness equals oneness.

To say, "this is nothing" isn't nothing. It is someone or something saying "this is nothing." That requires two things, an awareness of nothing and a supposed nothing, which obviously rests in something or there couldn't be awareness of it.

On the other hand, what Eckhart is getting at seems more real to me. I'm not aware of my consciousness because I am my consciousness, just as I can't see my seeing.

I'm fond of "nothing" (witness all the posts in my Wu Project category). However, I've come to feel that nothing is an abstraction, like oneness, since no one ever has experienced it. Nor could they, since there wouldn't be anyone around to experience anything in either pure nothingness or pure oneness.

So I like the notion of a more limited unity, a sensation of wholeness while existing as a part. Being in relation with other beings.

[shin]

Dear Brian,

I would just like to thank you for giving me an opportunity to voice my heart felt opinions and thoughts. Without a site like this, many including me would be eternally lost in whichever path they follow. Like i have stated in my other post, i am beginning to believe now....... that is to believe in me, my own consciousness and state of being.

take care,
Shin
P.S. I am of the Male persuasion.

[Brian]

Shin, I appreciate your thanks. Means a lot to me. My main point in this post, which I think you agree with, is that seeking truth is different from following a particular path.

If you conclude that a certain path isn't likely to lead to the truth you're seeking, and change direction, this isn't a sign of lack of faith or devotion. Rather, it is just the opposite.

You're demonstrating how much faith you have that truth exists, and how devoted you are to finding it.

Someone who stays on a path simply out of habit, or because it is comfortable, or for the company of friends and family -- that person is the one who lacks faith and devotion to truth.

They don't trust that truth is powerful enough to make its presence known to those who empty themselves of preconceptions and dogmatic beliefs, and are open to embracing truth in whatever form it manifests.

[shin]

Dear Brian,

For one who meditated for so many years and struggled to free yourself and now continue with this struggle But without the 'Burden' of the faith....i can only but imagine the confliction and battles that must have raged within you.

I feel my journey has now started and it is up to me where it ends up.

My previous post {good questions}seems to have engaged a healthy debate but also shows the evil amongst humanity!
Our standard religions evoke emotions, which result in large scale wars, which have been raging for a millennium. Our posts also provoke a similar response, though not to that extent but ultimately result in actions denoting ill will and animosity among fellow strugglers.

What if there were no faiths, cults, religions......why would we need to argue, why would we need to fight. Is that the solution we are all looking for!

To free the mind beyond all these man made manifestations, is probably what the mind/soul wants and is our inner most desire, though we may not realise it.
My desire is true and if it is a case of Stop Looking and go where life takes me then so be it.

shin

[zenjen]

Shin,

You say: “My previous post {good questions} seems to have engaged a healthy debate but also shows the evil amongst humanity!”

--- I can only speak of my own experience in following Sant Mat which has led to engendering in me a kind of over sensitive, fearful and guilt ridden, ego bashing type personality.

--- Time to move on and beyond that now.

You also talk about … “posts also provoke a similar response, though not to that extent but ultimately result in actions denoting ill will and animosity among fellow strugglers”.

--- To each his own.

[Obed]

Dear Brian,
Thanks for the explanation.
Best regards
Obed

[Sita]

Brian,is it not the truth finding within oneselves!,no matter if going to satsang or not and enjoy dear friends and also meditational evironment.
How judgemental to say people who do that are not really seeking for truth?

[Sita]

When I read the posts from Shin up till the last one..ppff there must be something very much at fault.
I see the fear-problem.
Dogma's are like poison.

[Brian]

Sita, where did I say that religiously minded people aren't seeking for truth? My point was that truth won't be found by looking only in a certain predetermined direction. Often it appears unexpectedly. The history of science is full of such examples.

Naturally there's nothing wrong with feeling good by being with friends and enjoying a worshipful environment. However, religious types take this not only subjectively, but also objectively. Meaning, they claim that truth can be known only by doing this and that.

That's a narrow perspective, especially since there is no evidence that doing this and that leads to spiritual truth any more than doing such and such does.

[Sita]

''Someone who stays on a path simply out of habit,or because it is comfortable,or for the company of friends and family,that is the one who lacks faith and devotion to truth."
________
That is very right! but
point can be, that nobody ''knows'' for someone else ,where one really stands.
I told Shin that one can go to satsang after leaving the burden of doctrine behind.

Be with friends and in a meditational atmosphere.

i must say that it costs time to come to that point to do that.
I feel myself totaly new and independed on my path now.It is all about ones own way/path.

As well in the inner, the way of doing meditation, as also the outer,going to satsang etc..

It all depends on a whole lot of things.

Thanks for asking about that Brian.

[David]

Ah, but you are forgetting something. You said that "truth" comes unexpectedly in SCIENCE. But "truth" also comes unexpectedly in SPIRITUALITY. You might not like this, but your lack of spiritual experiences do not reflect the "truth" of others having them not only since the beginning of time but even now, today. It isn't your fault either - you just don't have any spiritual experiences.

I've been reading these blog comments for several weeks. You have said in the past that when you meditated you would set up a timer and wait for the meditation to end. That isn't meditation!! If CHaran Singh duped you into believing that you wouldn't need to make any spiritual effort (which is not how i read the few RSS books i have) and that God would fall into your lap by performing a ritual and mechanical meditation, i am not surprised you haven't had any experiences!!

Perhaps you didn't go into it in detail but peeking at the clock waiting for meditation to end has nothing whatsoever to do with meditation.

You are a seeker. Some part of you believes that there is something to spirituality, which is obvious from what you write and why you continue to write the things you do about God, consciousness, etc. If you think science will eventually provide the answers to your questions i think you are beating a dead horse. How can science, which is man made, possibly find out anything about God? To my way of thinking that is completely absurd. This whole idea about science finding the answers to the potential creator of everything, who we are also told is the personification of perfect love, as if to somehow discover this God in some part of space - how irrational!!

I don't really know who you think you are helping writing all the things you do, except for ex-cult members of RSS and other cults. You can probably help them in some ways, but you can't help all of them. And not all of them happen to agree with you. There's a rotten apple in every organisation but that doesn't mean every person in that organisation doesn't have spiritual experiences or agrees with everything going on in the org. It just so happens that you personally seem to have had absolutely zero spiritual experiences. Can you tell me why there are and have been thousands if not millions of human beings who DO have spiritual experiences? Are you going to put them all down to hallucinations of the brain? And if so, why didn't you have any of those hallucinations? Why is there TONS of evidences that points to the existence of anomalous experiences, and which science cannot explain?

I don't even know where to begin to give you evidence of those things - they are everywhere! Millions of books have been written about them, they have been studied in the laboratory and passed the tests satisfactorily. The ONLY people in the entire world who don't agree with these facts happen to be supporters of James Randi the magician and debunker and there are loads of problems with his approach. Freethinkers seem to pride themselves with their own knowledge as if it was true, which it isn't, and anybody that researches the things they claim don't exist, properly researches, finds out they are wrong. Those people are not skeptics in the true sense of that word - they are dogmatists who use skepticism in the wrong way.

FOr example, have you ever read anything negative about Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion? That is, have you come across anything that specifically points out how flawed that book is? I'm not talking about Christians like Alistair McGrath. I'm talking about other scientists and philosophers. It is jam packed with flaws.

Discrimination and skepticism are good things to have. WHen they are used correctly they can reveal the truth and weed out the errors. When they are used incorrectly they are bastardized by dogma.

Meditation, also, is not the only way of aquiring spiritual experiences, although it is considered to be one of the best ways. Have you never ever had any experience in your entire life that causes you to step back and say, "wow, i can't explain that"? You must have. If you haven't, not even once, then it is perfectly understandable why you are skeptical of their existence. But there are even people like Dean Radin, who has extensively studied psychic phenomena, who has never had any psychic experiences but who champions their existence.

Shakespeare was right. "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.". I would add "your science" to that.

[Brian]

David, there's not much I can say in response to what you wrote. Except to repeat: step back...calm down...look clearly at what is being said by me and others on this blog.

You're not seeing what's going on. That's OK. Just realize that your perspective is one-sided. Your side. Reality isn't so limited.

[David]

Again, you have repeatedly stated throughout this entire website blog that you have had no spiritual experiences with meditation, and i am bringing you up on that. Let's not debate anything about mundane experiences like walking the dog when the moon comes out and calling that a spiritual experience (which you are entitled to do but which really has very little "juice" to it).

Everybody's perspective is one-sided, including yours. I don't see how bringing in that little dig about my perspective really has anything to do with the issues i raised.

[Brian]

David, you obviously consider that you know more than other people about spirituality, and that you've had mystical or spiritual experiences than other people like me haven't.

It also seems obvious that whatever these experiences have accomplished for you, they haven't made you humble, non-judgmental, or accepting. Or would you disagree with that?

I just don't get a sense from your comments that you have achieved a state of calm, loving acceptance of other people and reality. Again, maybe I'm wrong and it's just your communication style that makes you appear different than what you are.

Anyway, I've become much less concerned about having mystical experiences in meditation. I tried to have them for a long time, and I did achieve some success in concentration, relaxation, and such.

But I also found that my immersion in a particular belief system was causing me to feel a sense of separation and superiority. I was on the road to truth and other people weren't. I get the same feeling from your comments -- that you believe you have grasped more of the truth about ultimate reality than poor fools like me and others who visit this blog.

Well, you may be right. What I cherish now are my dog walks in nature; Tai Chi with fellow imperfect sometimes-stumbling students; discussing ideas with people and ending up with a big goofy smile of "I don't know."

That's just me. You're you. All I've been trying to say in our comment conversation is that these differences are fine. They're to be cherished, not rejected. What I'm trying to offer with this blog is a place to talk about spiritual and meditation experiences, or the lack of them, and support people in pursuing their own independent search for truth.

I assume you don't have a problem with that. Or, do you? If my assumption is correct, I'm still curious about why this blog bothers you so much. And why you're so bothered, if your own spiritual experiences have given you the benefits that you seem to be claiming they have.

[Roger]

"Meditation, also, is not the only way of aquiring spiritual experiences, although it is considered to be one of the best ways."

---who considered meditation, one of the
best ways? Again, why is One required to aquire, or, to have a spiritual experience? Is this some kind of requirement from an "out of body" activity?
---what is the defference between someone that has had a spiritual experience and one that has not?
---can I just buy a spiritual experience, and save myself a lot of work? I have cash.

Thanks for some ideas,
Roger

[ashy]

dear Brian

here I was thinking that you are a reasonably well enlightened individual with some sincere enlightening thought to impart on the rest of seeking humanity through your quest for self enlightenment both through your physical and spiritual scientific endeavors.

and then I get rather unsuspectingly surprised to note you are still floundering with your intellect to the extent that you have not for a moment deciphered the true teachings by which you were initiated to self discovery those 30 years or so ago.

I notice your exasperated self awareness is still floundering haphazardly upon the falsities of self importance, and egocentric intellectual analysis to the extent that the stilling of the mind which is the fundamental first step towards any frame of broader spiritual illumination has not even begun to be addressed.

So pray tell me what did you do with your thumb in your ear instead of listening for the Shabd all those 30 long years of self discovery, seems to me you were grappling with your mind all those extended hours and years as you are doing still.

[ashy]

The Life of Brian

should be a Monty Python sketch

[ashy]

What actually is the objective of this website if anything, what are you really trying to expose or depose or deny or crucify if not your very own self.

[Brian]

ashy, I've done a lot of explaining on this blog about my approach to meditation and my experience with RSSB meditative practices over thirty years.

Why don't you describe your own experiences? You are judging me for sharing my experiences, calling me "egocentric," "floundering," "self important," "intellectual," and such.

That isn't how I see myself. But I'm certainly not perfect. It sounds like you believe that you understand how one gets beyond human frailties to a state of spiritual realization.

Instead of criticizing me, who you seem to take as preaching darkness, why don't you light a candle and share your own illuminating experiences? Then we can discuss them.

As I have been noting to some other commenters lately, what strikes me is that those who claim to know the most about spirituality seem to be the most judgmental, preachy, and critical of other people.

I came to the conclusion that I didn't want to be that sort of person. I wasn't enjoying feeling superior to other people, being a member of a group that knew the truth about God while others were floundering in delusion.

My personal experience, I can say absolutely honestly, is that I wake up every morning happier, more contented, and more at peace with the world than I did when I was a true believer. To me this is good.

I don't feel confused. What I feel most strongly is a sense of wonder at the mystery that is this world, the universe, the cosmos as a whole.

[tucson]

Ashy wrote: "...the stilling of the mind which is the fundamental first step towards any frame of broader spiritual illumination..."

--How do you know? What is "spiritual"? Angels and lights? What if it were simply this, as it is right now?

David wrote: "..mundane experiences like walking the dog when the moon comes out and calling that a spiritual experience (which you are entitled to do but which really has very little "juice" to it)."

--Why do you assume there must be "juice" to an experience in order for it to be spiritual? Again, what is "spiritual" anyway? Why is walking the dog not "spiritual"?

[ashy]

I ask what is the purpose of the website, are you in all earnestness seeking to expose some dogmatic approach to RSSB spiritual teaching or are you really seeking your own answers that you seem to have lost along the way.

In spite of unknowns lack of tact and perhaps his hard edged approach he is not that far off the mark.

I have thus far not mentioned any terminology towards 'darkness', perhaps you have inadvertently expressed your own inner misgivings in that context.

However I still ask what all this intellectual wrangling around in circles you really hope to achieve out of all of this.

If you have not acquired the state of stillness or humility or devotion through your spiritual endeavors, surely you should be looking towards and within yourself, who or what you try to decry and denounce will never appease the sense of loss and inadequacy until one is able to address and still their very own wayward exacerbating mind for themselves.

It is no fault of another if you yourself have fallen short of the mark, is it now?

[ashy]

If one feels superior or arrogant or judgmental about others or feels they know or have greater insight than others and develop a type of spiritual egotism, this is surely their own shortcoming, what does it have to do with a tenet or teaching if the disciple himself who is struggling with the very tenets and principles by which he approaches his advancement has something to overcome.

These are all personal internal aspects of growth, each and every soul is on a journey towards his or her end, to some we hope it is towards enlightenment, to those, as unknown has suggested, if the burden of our own analytical, non stilled and non illumined mind is too great to bear than perhaps give up, but do not for a moment suggest the fault is with somebody else if you yourself are unfit or cannot stomach the challenge for the ultimate reward.

[Brian]

ashy, what is the "ultimate reward"? What challenge does it take to obtain the reward?

Suggestion: say whatever you're trying to say directly. I don't understand what you're getting at.

It sounds like you're upset that I don't believe wholeheartedly in the Sant Mat approach any more. True?

If not, then what is "the end" you say each and every soul is on a journey to? And how can you be sure that this is the goal for every person?

[ashy]

I did not say this is the goal for every person, but it is the goal for those who embark on a journey towards discovering themselves.

I suggested that if you embark on a path, a journey towards self discovery and you chicken out along the way, and make your own inadequacy that of the teaching you have fallen short of in its high ideals or principles, and then look to find corroborating arguments to bolster your own inadequacies, this in truth is really only your own shortcomings, and not those of the principles or teachings you embarked on in the first place.

I said it on the other thread, it is extremely and painfully simple to finding spiritual solace and elevation, it is hardly rocket science, it is so simple a child of 5 can grasp and understand it, yet these scholars in all of their highfalutin intellectual wrangling fail to uncover the simplicity of it.

Again I say to you, discover this beauty and stillness in yourself, before you start blowing trumpets about how unsatisfying or irresolute your search for truth has become.

[Brian]

ashy, apparently you haven't been following what I've been saying in comments on this post and my other blog writings. I have indeed found a considerable measure of beauty and stillness in myself. That's why I'm such a proponent of churchlessness -- because it is working so much better for me than true believing.

Where have I said that I'm not on a journey toward discovering myself? That's a big part of what I write about, and what I do every day.

I meditate each morning. I practice Tai Chi many times a week. I take dance lessons and learn what it means to flow, lead, follow. I experience the wonder of nature in our beautiful Oregon countryside. I get together with friends and discuss what life is all about.

How can you justify saying that I, or anyone else, has "chickened out along the way"? Like others have commented on recently, it takes a lot more guts to cut loose ties that bind to a religious organization, because it's easier to follow in someone else's path than to chart your own.

Do you really believe that there is only one way to finding beauty and stillness?

[ashy]

I fail to see the significance of believing or churchlessness, or churchified or religious organizations or what any of these concepts have to do with self discovery or spiritual science.

This is a totally personal undertaking, it has absolutely nothing to do with any religion or organization or externalized sect or teaching whatsoever.

It seems to me you have supplanted the deep principles and tenets and ideals you were once granted, (and I must stress this was not of your own validity but by the grace of creation itself), towards this discovery of your true self, by your very own notion and ideology you have formulated for yourself, and now you seem to be in the process of preaching and proselytizing it further afield by way of this website.

Perhaps you were far too taken up with all the externalized paraphernalia attached or associated with the path that you were following, and because it is in the nature of the mind to always seek to be centripetal to itself i.e. to feel self important about what it undertakes, you got sidetracked and lost the gist of what your real purpose on that path of self discovery was.

I can assure you that practicing Tai Chi and discussing pro's and cons of spirituality with friends and associates or walking in the beautiful Oregon countryside, or taking up dance classes, is not going to achieve this state of oneness you were hoping to discover in yourself when you embarked on the course of meditation at the outset of your journey.

They may all aid or assist one in achieving a degree of wonderment and self satisfaction and peacefulness towards the reward, but they are all only aids towards that goal and not the practice of the discovery itself.

That essential course of enlightenment and awareness was gift wrapped and handed to you in absolute perfect magnitude, the fact that one is still to this day unable to understand the magnitude and graciousness of such a gift, is really as I have already suggested, just ones own minds egocentric shortcoming and ingratitude, and no fault of any teaching or of anyone else.

[ashy]

It is getting rather late here, I am about 9 time zones ahead of you from where I am communicating, so I will bid you adieu.

[Brian]

ashy ,you haven't answered my questions. Or, perhaps you have. Apparently you believe that Sant Mat is the only way to live a rich and fulfilling life, and that I've made a horrible mistake by not sticking with the RSSB practice.

You're entitled to your beliefs, but I reject your fundamentalism. What is this talk of "gifts" and "gift-wrapping"? You're devoted to a belief system, and I guess you feel like you're doing the right thing by defending it.

But you'd persuade more people if you'd answer simple questions (like the ones I asked) in a simple way, rather than beating around the bush with abstract comments like the one you just left.

[ashy]

No it is you that misread or misrepresent the simplicity or the gist of the simple reality.

You still believe somehow that you have fundamental free will to determine your own destiny and spiritual aspirations or fulfillment, yet you are naive enough not to appreciate the magnitude of your human form or the discrimination and intellect bestowed, and the gift of attainment that you have likewise failed to appreciate.

There has been no mention from me whatsoever that RSSB Sant Mat is the only sole means by which the soul can attain enlightenment or self realization, but this in no way absolves us of negating the truth for our very own aggrandized form of self centered ideology.

I have no fundamentalism at all for you to reject, what you have rejected is the grace granted you by God himself to understand and discover yourself, or in turn himself, and only by his grace, not by your immaculate existentialist or self centered delusion of egocentric grandeur.

No one can of themselves make any mistakes, whatever course of action you take is within the confines and jurisdiction of your own conditioned responses, either to be grateful or by contrast be self centered and ungrateful for the relative state of becoming or growth towards fulfillment that you find yourself at.

It seems you are still of the opinion that this universe is your very own oyster and that you yourself are in the position of free will capacity to determine your own spiritual fulfillment or enlightenment.

You are not free, you have not attained this state of freedom nor enlightenment, and like all others you are but a struggling soul towards that emancipation. Yet in your self determined stupor you purport to be sufficiently advanced to be your very own master.

This to my way of thinking is the height of aggrandized self centered egotism and the epitome of the false notion of self determination towards enlightenment.

Since when can one who is blinded by his own limited insular vision purport to have absolute free will or sight.

If you honestly believe you can lift yourself and your own consciousness by your very own bootstraps, then be my guest, I have some news for you, as much as your ego would like for this to be the case, you cannot.

[ashy]

and what is more you are encouraging others to flounder away at their own preconceived illusion that they too can become their own masters and attain the levels of enlightenment by way of some willy nilly self determined delusion of self centered grandeur.

Its quite simple really, you have copped out, and taken what you think to be the easy option, the reality of it all unfortunately, is that there is no other way to self discovery but by going within.

You can try by all means to do this single handed without an adequate guide, but if any of your willy nilly disciples over here follow your lead they too will become as flummoxed and deluded before long into believing that they too might be their very own masters.

I sincerely hope they will not become as duped and confused as yourself, but then this is not up to me, or you, or them for that matter, for none of us at all hold the key or the strings to the emancipation or elevation of our consciousness, even as much as some of us self centered egotists might like to believe we do.

[tAo]

A note to Brian and readers:
I have to warn you, this here is gonna be a real long one. I usually try to refrain from such lenghty comments, and I am sorry but I had to combine three or four or more of Ashy's posts into one. But I just felt I had to nail this jerk of a commenter to the wall. This poster Ashy is one of the more religious fundamentalists to ever dump his/her crap on Brian and the other good folks in this forum. So here goes:

To Ashy,

People like you are much the same. So predictable, and so full of pseudo-spiritual dogma and crap.

You come to this site with a bunch of bogus baseless judgements and conclusions (not to mention the same old dogma that others like you have repeated a thousand times before), without ever having a clue as to what is actually being considered or discussed here.

Then you go on to make numerous false interpretations of where Brian, myself and others are at. It is people like you who give Santmat and RS a bad reputation. Its also people like you who are the very evidence that shows the failure of the RS teachings and its bogus masters and its cult organization, to deliver any spiritual wisdom or spiritual emancipation to its faithful believers and adherants and practioners.

Here are my responses to your comments:

Ashy said:

"here I was thinking that you are a reasonably well enlightened individual with some sincere enlightening thought to impart on the rest of seeking humanity"

-- Just what have YOU got to offer Ashy? So far, you have offered nothing of any consequence here, only shallow rhetoric.

"and then I [...] note you [Brian] are still floundering with your intellect to the extent that you have not for a moment deciphered the true teachings by which you were initiated to self discovery those 30 years or so ago."

-- You obviously have not read anything that Brian has written elsewhere on this site. You also imply as if you have "deciphered the true teachings". But I have seen nothing in what that you have written here that indicates that YOU have any degree of wisdom or insight or "self-discovery".

"I notice your exasperated self awareness is still floundering"

-- But yet you yourself exhibit almost no awareness of a very large percentage of the subject matter that has been offered, and discussed, on this site. How shallow and hypocritical.

"the stilling of the mind which is the fundamental first step towards any frame of broader spiritual illumination has not even begun to be addressed."

-- You clearly know nothing about the nature of the mind, or of so-called "spiritual illumination". This is totally evident throughout your comments.

"So pray tell me what did you do with your thumb in your ear instead of listening for the Shabd all those 30 long years of self discovery"

-- You also exhibit no understanding of shabd, much less of any "self-discovery". Because if you did, you would well know that it has nothing to do with "your thumb in your ear".

"seems to me you were grappling with your mind all those extended hours and years as you are doing still.

-- The fact of the matter is ( and it is quite clear to me) that YOU are the one "grappling with your mind". You show about as much insight or understanding into the nature of mind as most other ignorant and narrow-minded guru-cult sychophants.

"What actually is the objective of this website if anything, what are you really trying to expose or depose or deny or crucify if not your very own self." "I ask what is the purpose of the website"

-- You see, this is what I am pointing out. You haven't even bothered to see or find out what is the basic orientation and objective of this site. Yet you come here with a rather condescending know-it-all attitude. Go to the "About this site--start here" in the menu.

"are you in all earnestness seeking to expose some dogmatic approach to RSSB spiritual teaching or are you really seeking your own answers that you seem to have lost along the way."

-- A.) The RSSB and its doctrine is full of dogma.... and, B.) You have no "answers" to anything. You are just a pretentious but empty bag of hot-air. You haven't got a clue about Sant mat, nor about your own being and awareness.

"In spite of unknowns lack of tact and perhaps his hard edged approach he is not that far off the mark."

-- Unknown is somewhat similar to you... ie: not even within miles of the ballpark.

"However I still ask what all this intellectual wrangling around in circles you [Brian] really hope to achieve out of all of this."

-- And what "intellectual wrangling in circles" is that? Please be specific. Like Unknown, you are obviously making unfounded and meaningless generalizations.

"If you have not acquired the state of stillness or humility or devotion through your spiritual endeavors..."

-- And what makes you think "stillness or humility or devotion" has any significance or importance? You are just parroting. You clearly have no knowledge about what you speak.

"...surely you should be looking towards and within yourself, who or what you try to decry and denounce will never appease the sense of loss and inadequacy until one is able to address and still their very own wayward exacerbating mind for themselves"

-- Merely more parroting. The only "sense of loss and inadequacy" that you speak of is your own. And the only so-called "wayward exacerbating mind" that you speak of is your own. You know absloutely nothing about anyone else.

"It is no fault of another if you yourself have fallen short of the mark"

-- And just what is that supposed "mark"? You are just so incredibly full of shit. Its amazing how blatantly presumptious you are. You just can't help from oozing with self-righteousness and hypocritical nonsense.

"If one feels superior or arrogant or judgmental about others [...] and develop a type of spiritual egotism, this is surely their own shortcoming"

-- Take a look in the mirror... because that is YOU who you are describing.

" what does it have to do with a tenet or teaching"

-- It has EVERYTHING to do do with the teaching, and the teacher, and also with the results (if any) as manifested or not in the disciple, the practitioner.

" each and every soul is on a journey towards his or her end"

-- What journey? That notion may be your opinion, but that does not make it the truth. I don't think you have any real true insight into what you are talking about.

"to those, as unknown has suggested, if the burden of our own analytical, non stilled and non illumined mind is too great to bear, than perhaps give up"

-- No one has given up... and you are nobody to judge whether or not others have an "analytical, non stilled and non illumined mind". You know nothjing about the state of other individuals. And clearly, you yourself have not attained any degree of liberation - awakening - enlightenment whatsoever. That is blatantly evident in everything that you have said, and everything that you believe.

"do not for a moment suggest the fault is with somebody else if you yourself are unfit or cannot stomach the challenge for the ultimate reward."

-- The measure of worth or fault in a spiritual path is not in its goal, but in its results. In the RS path, there is a stated goal, but there are NO evident results. There are only thousands who have yet to achieve any results. However, just so you don't continue to mistakenly assume that those who have dropped Santmat are "unfit" or have somehow 'failed', the above does not mean that others of us who no longer follow or practice RS have not achieved profound results from other approaches. All too many followers of Santmat ( like yourself apparently) are far too blinded by dogma and myth and a self-righteous cult mentality to have any exposure to anything outside of Santmat.

"I did not say this is the goal for every person, but it is the goal for those who embark on a journey towards discovering themselves."

-- That is only your opinion. Your notion of "goal" is not necessarily in accord with reality.

"I suggested that if you embark on a path, a journey towards self discovery and you chicken out along the way, and make your own inadequacy that of the teaching you have fallen short of..."

-- That is merely your own mistaken assumption and false judgement about Brian and perhaps others... No one has "chickened out" here. So again, you don't know what you are talking about, or anything about others. You are basically full of shit, full of ignorance and misinterpretations and baseless judgments.

"this in truth is really only your own shortcomings, and not those of the principles or teachings you embarked on in the first place."

-- That is absolute horseshit. It does not take 30 years of daily meditation to achieve results. If there are no results forthcoming and evident with anyone anywhere, then that indicates that there is obviously something fundamentally lacking in the teaching and the practice. You are in denial because you are willingly brainwashed, and you not honest with yourself, and you are afraid to surrender to truth. Its written all over you.

"I said [...] it is extremely and painfully simple to finding spiritual solace and elevation, it is hardly rocket science, it is so simple a child of 5 can grasp and understand it, yet these scholars in all of their highfalutin intellectual wrangling fail to uncover the simplicity of it."

-- YOU have NOT achieved the goal of Santmat. There is no doubt in my mind about that. Because if you had done so, then you would no longer have any need to be following or practicing it. Therefore, you are nobody to say "it is so simple". There is an vast difference between simply "grasping and undertanding" it, and reaching its supposed goal. Most, if not all here have a good "grasp and understanding" of Santmat. And a few of us like brian, myself and others have a far better "grasp and understanding" and experience with Santmat that YOU do. So you are no one to criticise those who have moved on beyond Santmat.

"Again I say to you, discover this beauty and stillness in yourself, before you start blowing trumpets about how unsatisfying or irresolute your search for truth has become. "

-- How do you know that others have not discovered "this beauty and stillness" in themselves? Many have, and most likely far more than you have. Yet you condescendingly assume that they have not. That is YOUR own ignorant judgement. You are showing everyone here just how full of pretentious crap you really are.

"I fail to see the significance of believing or churchlessness, [...] or religious organizations or what any of these concepts have to do with self discovery or spiritual science."

-- Then why do you subscribe to such religious organizations?

'This is a totally personal undertaking, it has absolutely nothing to do with any religion or organization or externalized sect or teaching whatsoever."

-- Bullshit. Santmat and RS have a great deal to do with theology, religion, sect, organization, sangat, master/leader/guru... AND with "teaching". Your statement is completely erroneous. It is the same old rhetoric and lie that so many religious cults and organizations use to fool the gullible seekers into thinking that it is not a cult.

"It seems to me you have supplanted the deep principles and tenets and ideals you were once granted [...] towards this discovery of your true self, by your very own notion and ideology you have formulated for yourself, and now you seem to be in the process of preaching and proselytizing it further afield by way of this website.'

-- Then you are not very perceptive or intelligent.

"Perhaps you were far too taken up with all the externalized paraphernalia attached or associated with the path that [...] you got sidetracked and lost the gist of what your real purpose on that path of self discovery was. "

-- Incorrect. It is obvious to myself and others that you are the one who is actually "side-tracked" into a particular narrow belief system and dogma world-view, and you have effectively lost your own innate natural path to self discovery.

"I can assure you that practicing Tai Chi and discussing pro's and cons of spirituality with friends and associates or walking in the beautiful Oregon countryside, or taking up dance classes, is not going to achieve this state of oneness you were hoping to discover [...] when you embarked on the course of meditation at the outset of your journey."

-- And I can "assure" YOU that you don't have one iota of a clue as to what the hell you are talking about. The goal of self-realization / liberation can come in any manner or form or circumstance. You are so full of ignorance and unenlightened dogma, which makes you presume that there is only ONE way - your way, the Santmat way - to achieve "this state of oneness. My own life (and many others) is living proof that this limited idea of yours is false and could not be farther from the truth.

"They may all aid or assist one in achieving a degree of wonderment and self satisfaction and peacefulness towards the reward, but they are all only aids towards that goal and not the practice of the discovery itself."

-- Thats a load of nonsense, and you are showing me just how full of it you really are.

"That essential course of enlightenment and awareness was gift wrapped and handed to you [...] the magnitude and graciousness of such a gift [...] and no fault of any teaching or of anyone else."

-- And that is even more meaningless babble. Its amazing how people like you can talk all the flowery (but empty) talk, but you have never come anywhere close to actually knowing what it is to have actually walked the walk. Religious fundamentalists and hypocrites like you disgust me.

"You still believe somehow that you have fundamental free will to determine your own destiny and spiritual aspirations or fulfillment, yet you are naive enough not to appreciate the magnitude of your human form or the discrimination and intellect bestowed, and the gift of attainment that you have likewise failed to appreciate."

-- Again, you are obviously full of rigid fundamentalist dogma, and have no self-knowledge nor any degree of enlightened insight or wisdom. You are nothing more than a parrot with a very narrow (almost nonexistant) understanding of philosophy and no direct experience or realization. You are just a religious sychophant. There is really no point in going any further with the kind of garbage that you have written here.

"There has been no mention from me whatsoever that RSSB Sant Mat is the only sole means by which the soul can attain enlightenment or self realization"

-- That is a false and incorrect statment. Go see your previous comment somewhere above.

"but this in no way absolves us of negating the truth for our very own aggrandized form of self centered ideology."

-- And what "truth" is that? You mean your religious fundamentalism biased version of "truth"? Fyi... evn to come close to come to knowing any real truth, everything must be subjected to scutiny and critiical thinking and negation.

"I have no fundamentalism at all"

-- Wrong. Almost everyting you have said here is an expression of fundamentalist thinking and belief.

"what you have rejected is the grace granted you by God himself"

-- You are no one to speak for, or about "grace" or "God". This is yet another example of your religious fundamentalism.

"No one can of themselves make any mistakes, whatever course of action you take is within the confines and jurisdiction of your own conditioned responses, either to be grateful or by contrast be self centered and ungrateful for the relative state of becoming or growth towards fulfillment that you find yourself at."

-- This borders on what I can only describe as a kind of 'religiously totalitarian' viewpoint. Its utter horseshit, and has no basis in reality.

"It seems you are still of the opinion that this universe is your very own oyster and that you yourself are in the position of free will capacity to determine your own spiritual fulfillment or enlightenment."

-- And you are of an extremely disempowered and repressive mentality. Its really sad to see people like you. Its unfortunate that you have been deceived and influenced in this way.

"You are not free, you have not attained this state of freedom nor enlightenment, and like all others you are but a struggling soul towards that emancipation."

-- I can not speak for Brian, but only speak for myself here: Ashy, you know absolutely nothing about me or about what "state of freedom" or "enlightement" I have "attained" or abide in/as. Your statement only reveals how completely unenlightend and ignorant and "struggling" you are.

"Yet in your self determined stupor you purport to be sufficiently advanced to be your very own master."

-- This "master" notion is simply a myth. And it is a myth that people like you are trapped in and are dis-empowered by, and it is a myth that you also use to judge and to reduce and demean others, because true awakening has not yet occured in your case.

"This to my way of thinking is the height of aggrandized self centered egotism and the epitome of the false notion of self determination"

-- You are probably a socialist or a communist. But you are also an ignorant fool. You suck. I will be glad when people like you have met your just deserts. Good riddens.

"Since when can one who is blinded by his own limited insular vision purport to have absolute free will or sight."

-- You have no insight with which to judge others. And no one has made any such claims.

"and what is more you are encouraging others to flounder away at their own preconceived illusion that they too can become their own masters and attain the levels of enlightenment"

-- You are such an ignorant fool. Its really so disgusting to see people like you babbling their narrow-minded pseudo-spiritual garbage as if they have any clue at all. I hope your dogma shits on your karma, and then your karma runs over your dogma... real soon.

"Its quite simple really, you have copped out"

-- No, you are the one who has "copped out" by handing over your mind and intellect to religious fundamenalism, blind faith, and guru-cultism.

"the reality of it all unfortunately, is that there is no other way to self discovery but by going within."

-- Here you go again with the fundamentlist "this way is the ONLY way" rhetoric. Here it is in plain sight for all to see.

"You can try by all means to do this single handed without an adequate guide"

-- You don't know shit about what an "adequate guide" is. And you know nothing about what others can and cannot so. You are nothing more than a guru-cult goon.

"if any of your willy nilly disciples over here follow your lead they too will become as flummoxed and deluded before long into believing that they too might be their very own masters."

-- There are no such "willy nilly disciples over here". No one here is any "disciple" of Brian. But you are about as dumb and stupid as they come. And the only one here who is "flummoxed and deluded" and "duped and confused", is YOU.

"none of us at all hold the key or the strings to the emancipation or elevation of our consciousness even as much as some [...] self centered egotists might like to believe we do."

-- Bullshit. Bull-SHIT. You are one of the most self-assured but empty fundamentalist guru-cult suckers and goons to stumble in here in a long time. In fact you are one of the very type of people who give Santmat and Radha Soami mat such a bad name.

"If you honestly believe you can lift yourself and your own consciousness by your very own bootstraps, then be my guest, I have some news for you, as much as your ego would like for this to be the case, you cannot."

-- And I have some much bigger news for you "Ashy", you puffed-up but shallow religious fundamentalist know-nothing. Go read and study what I have for you here (that is, if you have sufficient intelligence to understand it, which is quite doubtful):

http://categoricalanalysis.com

And more specifically this: http://categoricalanalysis.com/category/pdf/categorical-analytic_meaning_of_truth.pdf

and also this:
http://categoricalanalysis.com/category/pdf/Ruth5.PDF

[tAo]

And btw, to put things in perspective...

On the average, the Radha Soami satsangis are typically among the most (if not the most) "flummoxed and deluded", and the most "duped and confused" spiritual guru-cult devotees on the planet.

[Catherine]

Ashy, you have based your whole argument on so many original assumptions which you do not question. Creator, reward, master, enlightenment, belief that someone else with dubious entitlement has the keys to the emancipation of our consciousness, free will, destiny, struggling soul, spirituality, side tracked, centripetal forces, Oneness, gift wrapped gift in perfect..., I say to you, you will never..., assumptions that people are confused here.

You are like an idols contestant that has been schooled by teacher into singing in a certain way because you assume that that's what the judges want.

To me, it is very obvious that you have followed a path for many years that uses all these concepts. They are well and truly entrenched. It is unlikely that any change will come your way, so sunk are you in a style of thinking that cannot recognise movement and change in another.

Here chess is played on a blog, and you have entered the game and you are thoroughly enjoying it, you cannot help yourself despite the fact that you are aware of Gurinder's 'no internet discussion about Santmat' rule. 'But I'm not discussing Santmat.' Yes, you are. And you have an inate need to enter discussion on this public forum, because it's healthy.

Here the game of discussion and debate about core assumptions occurs and with that comes change, not entrenchment. It is coupled often with meditation and other disciplines, as well as work and play. It brings peace and aliveness at the same time.

Make the effort to look through the archives Ashy. Think a little for yourself. Don't be lazy.

[tucson]

tAo...Bravo!!!

[ashy]

keep it up Brian

You are harboring a whole empty nest of ego ridden pseudo self centered so called spiritual seekers, seeking not truth but their own aggrandized self importance.

These people, as are you, are not at all in the least looking for anything but to puff up their own self important ideas of who or what they portray as their quest for discovery, except by this means there will be absolutely zero self discovery at all, only consternation upon consternation of wrangling, one self centered egotist to the next, ongoing, round and round forever and a day in endless circles, achieving pretty much diddly squat.

There is absolutely nothing to glean or gain from here, only a whole host of self absorbed ego riddled minds looking to analyze and caste judgment and gnash teeth about absolutely nothing.

You are actually wasting your time, or certainly this is what I am doing right now responding to such uselessness as is put out by some of your self seeking disciples.

What on the good earth you are proposing or hoping to achieve from this superfluous pastime perhaps only you or these self centered minds may know, but this is most definitely in absolutely no way whatsoever gaining any insight whether spiritual or other into anything useful or meaningful.

You can go on and on, round and round in circles till the cows come home exercising your intellects and superfluous analysis about me, RSSB, religion, churchlessness and whatever other useless superfluous intellectual nonsentity you wish to, it will gain you or these so called seekers after truth absolutely nothing at all.

If it is anything you may or may not have learned in all your 30 odd years of seeking, the least you should perhaps have discovered is that this type of empty headed nonsensical intellectual and superficial analytical reasoning is not going to get anybody anywhere far in a hurry.

You are beating about this cyber space bush giving vent to a host of pseudo self centered minds, and it seems that at the hub and head of it all is unfortunately you, who by all accounts, should know a whole lot better.

As I said, keep it up, you are in the process of achieving absolutely nothing, zero, except hopefully at the end of it all to come back to your very own realization that what you have embarked on here is really a waste of precious time and an exercise in self induced futility and self important superfluous intellectual ego stroking that will not gain yourself, or myself, or anyone else of these so called seekers after truth anything substantially meaningful at all.

If you have not come to this simple understanding at least by now, then I guess perhaps in this life you may never will.

Good luck

[Brian]

ashy, I hope that one day you will learn that words aren't reality, and that your ability to parrot dogma means nothing. You've deluded yourself into believing that the thoughts running around in your head -- how enlightened you are, how you know the truth and others don't, how you're not trapped by intellect and fools like me are -- actually mean that you've achieved some advanced spiritual state.

If you weren't a fundamentalist satsangi, I could substitute a few terms in your comments and end up with a fundamentalist Christian, or Muslim, or Jew. If you have not come to this simple understanding at least by now, then I guess perhaps in this life you may never will.

Remember those words? They're yours. You were talking to yourself.

Good luck. (And read Catherine's comment again. Remember, our critics are our best friends, especially when they speak the truth.)

[Brian]

ashy, a P.S. if you're still around reading comments (hope you are). Here's an offer:

Why don't you take a positive approach? Write down your spiritual beliefs, or philosophy of life, including the reasons why you consider it to be valid.

Then email it to me. I'll share it in a blog post. This will offer people an opportunity to comment on your ideas, and for you to communicate them positively (as opposed to criticizing other people's take on reality).

I'd be interested to see what you write. You claim knowledge of truths that other people who visit this blog lack. I'm not kidding when I say, "show us what you have." Maybe you can convince some people.

All I ask is that you state your position affirmatively, because you've spent much of your commenting time tearing down ideas.

[Obed]

Dear ashly,
Bravo! bravo!I love a good comedy and goody,goody I have a whole new talent I can now display on my
resume and one I didnt even have to study for, that of a"pseudo self centered mind"Not too many can make claim to being that.
Any way please do take up Brian's generous offer
it would be nice to know who you really are.
With love and kindness the great nonsense talker
Obed

[tAo]

Catherine,

You have addressed and tied together this issue much better and simpler than I. So the credit goes to you.

Ashy,

You say: "ego ridden pseudo self centered so called spiritual seekers"? Well wrong again. I am not any such "spiritual seeker" (I do not engage in spiritual seeking), and I do not follow gurus or believe or practice any sort of mysticism like you do.

It is just so painfully obvious... the fact of your own "aggrandized self importance" that you think and say others have.

You say: "These people are not at all in the least looking for anything". -- Yes, that is true, I am not looking for anything. But as for "their quest for discovery", well I am sorry to inform you, but for myself, I have no such "quest for discovery".

You say: "this means there will be absolutely zero self discovery at all" -- But you fail to realize that I myself have no such need or interest in your so-called "self discovery".

And then you say that eveyone here is "wrangling [...] round and round [...] in endless circles, achieving pretty much diddly squat." -- But the funny thing is that you are the one who is "wrangling", not to mention violating the RS master's will and instructions which prohibits all inititated satsangis from discussing or debating Santmat in any form on the internet. That means that by coming here and "wrangling" with Brian and the rest of us about Santmat, you are intentionally going against the RSSB and the orders of the RSSB master. But then perhaps you are not actually an initiated RS satsangi.

However, if you are an RS satsangi, then you have been blatantly disrespecting and violating the current master's direct orders, which were published more than 10 years ago. Were you aware of that? If not, then you have just been clearly informed, so you have no excuse now.

You say: "There is absolutely nothing to glean or gain from here" -- Well if that is how you feel, then why are you here?

You say: "You are actually wasting your time, or certainly this is what I am doing right now" -- Well yes, and you are also violating the specific orders of the current RS master.

You say: "responding to such uselessness as is put out by some of your self seeking disciples" -- Again, since you seem to have some problem or difficulty understanding plain and simple english, I am NOT any such "disciple" of anyone.

You say: What on the good earth you are proposing or hoping to achieve from this [...] this is most definitely in absolutely no way whatsoever gaining any insight whether spiritual or other into anything useful or meaningful." -- Is it that way for you for you? If that is how you feel, then that is rather unfortunate for you. It makes me wonder then, why you are still here?

You say: "You can go on and on, round and round in circles [...] exercising your intellects and superfluous analysis about me, RSSB, religion, churchlessness and whatever other useless superfluous intellectual nonsentity you wish to, it will gain you or these so called seekers after truth absolutely nothing at all." -- Well I don't think you are in any position to judge or determine that. You simply don't know what others may or can or will gain, or not gain by such discussions. And if this is such "useless superfluous intellectual nonsentity", then why are you here churning out your additional negative rhetoric?

You say: "If it is anything you may or may not have learned in all your 30 odd years of seeking" -- Fyi, I have not been "seeking" for "30 odd years". But perhaps you are not referring to me.

You say: "you should perhaps have discovered [...] that this type of empty headed nonsensical intellectual and superficial analytical reasoning is not going to get anybody anywhere far" -- But if you feel that way, then why are you involved?

You say: "You are beating about this cyber space bush giving vent to a host of pseudo self centered minds, and it seems that at the hub and head of it all is unfortunately you, who by all accounts, should know a whole lot better." -- It appears that you are speaking to Brian here, and so you obviously think that you yourself "know a whole lot better". Pretty conceited aren't you?

You say: "keep it up, you are in the process of achieving absolutely nothing, zero, except hopefully at the end of it all to come back to your very own realization that what you have embarked on here is really a waste of precious time and an exercise in self induced futility" -- But fyi, that is just the right kind of soil with which to make rapid and genuine spiritual advancement.

You say: "that will not gain yourself, or myself, or anyone else of these so called seekers after truth anything substantially meaningful" -- I keep telling you that I am not any such "seeker after truth". Do you not understand this simple fact? Well, I don't think that you really want to understand. You are not here because you want to understand or learn anything. You are just here to preach and judge and condemn others. Look in the mirror, and you will see the glaring inflated ego that you talk about in others.

You say: "If you have not come to this simple understanding at least by now, then I guess perhaps in this life you may never will." -- You love to wallow in that conceit, don't you? Just try to let it go. Then all will become clear to you as time goes on.... sooner or later.

As Brian has so succinctly said to you: "I hope that one day you will learn that words aren't reality, and that your ability to parrot dogma means nothing." -- Ditto to that.

And yes, I too hope that someday you do become unburdened by all those "thoughts running around in your head -- how enlightened you are, how you know the truth and others don't, how you're not trapped by intellect and fools like me are".

And yes, Catherine's comment definitely nailed you, but why don't you join in and take Brian's suggestion and offer and take a more positive tack? Please do "show us what you have". You will find that we are qite open and receptive to whatever you have to offer that is your own thoughts and experiences.

[Nick]

Hi, Brian and Obed and others from last year:

What a buzz to read your "360 degrees" piece, Brian, with the "Who knows?" meditation... and Obed, you're the first to reply. I was wondering how to contact you to express my deepest genuine thanks.

Just dropped in briefly to "give back to the universe what it gave to me" (Plotinus), which in this case consists in passing on what I've done with the much appreciated feedback you gave me. It was food for thought that kicked-me-along to revise my in-progress work on God-realisation.

Obed, I’m much more than just grateful for your profound observation that “I AM” is the one thought that actually contains all possible thoughts. It gave my book the culmination it had lacked. The following excerpt shows what the book is all about, and how central and essential your suggestion was. My thanks again – God Bless you.

Excerpts from:

HANDBOOK FOR GOD-REALISATION by Nicholas G Coleman (2009)

(p.1): Who am I? What is reality? Does God exist? Why has the universe evolved beings who query their own existence and wonder about the reality of God? It’s the goal of consciousness research to answer such questions, for the questions arise out of the nature of consciousness.

I believe we’re here asking these questions because the universe wants us to find the answers so we can share in the joy of knowing what it truly is to be alive and aware. The answers are available because each individual mind has a subconscious connection to one universal consciousness. By exploring that connection in our own subconscious mind we can access the universal consciousness in our everyday experience. Why we want to embark on such a search is because we feel sad when things go wrong and feel happy when things go right. Lured by happiness we seek an understanding that ensures our actions maximise happiness for ourselves and others. How we come to seek that understanding in a universal consciousness is because we love others as we love ourselves and so seek sufficient grasp of life, the universe and everything to act for the happiness of all things. To find the complete fulfilment of happiness we explore the origin of our happy life-experiences here-now with the aim of discovering the ultimate happiness that endures into life here-after.

>• ´¯`•.¸ >• ´¯`•.¸>•

(p.5): Even if it were possible to prove the truth of my beliefs, that is not my purpose in these pages. The book is more about insight than information. It’s a record of my life as a seeker and consciousness researcher and contains reports on what I’ve found in my study and experience of God. The book also provides training exercises and a practical manual for readers to develop skills for the exploration of the inner realm of their own mind. With good luck, God’s grace and diligent practice of the contemplation techniques, readers may even come to their own experience of divine-self-realisation.

>• ´¯`•.¸ >• ´¯`•.¸>

(p.70): It was 1989. After almost four years of post-graduate study at Cambridge University I’d read hundreds of books covering thousands of years of Perennial Philosophy from Plato to Jung and the East. All the traditional sources taught that the spiritual reality of God is the creative energy of the universe and that God’s creative spirit is present as the fundamental reality in all bodies, lives and minds. My research focused specifically on ideas about the relationship between the human soul and the mind of God. My thesis argued that ordinary human awareness of the world is the individual soul’s experience of God’s universal reality. In dry academic tones I’d written eighty thousand words explaining how finite human consciousness of everyday experience is an ever-changing snap-shot of present life in space and time as seen from each individual’s point of view, while God’s infinite mind is the whole reality of the universe from every point of view (Big Bang to Big Crunch) simultaneously in one limitless and unchanging comprehension. From what I’d read and understood in almost twenty years of studying western mystical philosophy and eastern spiritual religion, it sounded reasonable to me. I felt only a few final threads needed to be tied up to complete my PhD thesis on the connection between human consciousness and God’s mind. It never occurred to me that these ideas hovered on the threshold of an unimagined reality far beyond anything I’d read about in books or encountered in my experience.

>• ´¯`•.¸ >• ´¯`•.¸>•

(p.78f): And that brings me to the most extraordinary spiritual reality-experience of my life. It’s a vision too simple, complete and intimate for words to describe. I’ve never written or spoken about it before… not to anyone… ever. I can’t recall the specific circumstances of when and where it occurred. The towering experience itself is so total and all-consuming that details of time and space are eclipsed to insignificance and become invisible whenever I turn to the event. Here’s an account of what happened.
Let’s say (with poetic licence) it was fifteen or twenty years ago and I was circumambulating a lovely little lake in a modest suburban park. The air was glowing the way it does an hour or two before sunset. I sat on a bench under a shady tree to think happy thoughts and contemplate my whole experience of the trees and sky and space and Nature. On a nearby grassy knoll a big black crow pecked intently at an empty paper packet. As I watched the bird it turned and looked directly at me with a strikingly intelligent gaze. That moment of eye-contact with a lucid non-human intelligence moved me to wonder what the universe would see if it were alive and aware of itself.

All of a sudden (without warning and for no apparent reason) my prayer was answered. The ground of being at the back of my mind opened like the intelligent Eye of a universal consciousness and looked at everything through my individual point of view. I saw what that supreme self-awareness saw; for it was looking through my eyes and mind along with me – indeed, more than even that: it was the “I AM” that I am.

The extraordinary Intelligence present in my ordinary awareness was the creative energy of universal existence awake in my individual experience of consciousness. In an unutterable moment of direct eye-contact, the inner eye of my mind looked into the supreme Eye of the universe; and I saw the universe was already aware of my fleeting glance into its awareness. In that limitless, ceaseless and unchanging realisation, two spheres of self-awareness, the macrocosm and microcosm, the universe and I, shared one and the same Self, one and the same centre of existence and consciousness, one and the same first-personal experience of I AM.

As my ordinary awareness looked into the Eye of that supreme consciousness, I saw what it saw. One and the same Eye was simultaneously looking through every consciousness in existence. This Eye in the universal ground of being at the back of my mind looked equally through all bodies, lives and minds along with mine. Together for a timeless instant we were all-present and all-seeing. The Eye of this universal Intelligence had a personal perspective. It saw reality with awareness of its experience. The all-present Intelligence was an all-knowing “I” as well as an all-seeing Eye. Looking through the whole of existence simultaneously, the supreme “I-Eye” realised everything everywhere, from the beginning of time to the end of days – and I saw what it saw.

All the possibilities of reality were actually present in the consciousness and existence of this omniscient I-Eye that was open and awake in the ground of being at the back of my mind. Without limit or change, it knew itself to be The One “I AM” of all that is, was and ever will be. As the ultimate unity of The One “I AM” looked through my everyday consciousness of the world, I saw the final truth of reality through God’s eyes. I realised that who I am that knows my experience as an individual is The One I AM that knows its existence as the universe. Unbounded and motionless, the supreme I-Eye of The One I AM at the centre of all things looks out through the surface of each thing and sees it is the I AM THAT I AM looking back from everything. Truly, the whole of which we are parts is present as a whole in each of its parts.

I was taken in a transport of rapture by the presence of the I-Eye as it looked at the world from the ground of being at the back of my mind. Sharing its limitless awareness, my ordinary field of view was located in a perspective that reached in all directions without distinction between outer existence and inner awareness. All the I-Eye saw was the luminous sphere of infinite consciousness that contained the entire universe, including me, in a single ceaseless panoramic gaze of benign affirmation for everything. The I-Eye and I gazed into the world and into my mind at the same time. All we saw everywhere was the single consciousness of all existence looking back, and I saw what it saw.

Together, we looked from the deepest ground of my being up the well of my individual consciousness and out through my everyday awareness into the surrounding world. Simultaneously, we were all things and lives and minds in the surrounding world and looking into my ordinary viewpoint down the well of consciousness to the origin of my existence in the one ground of being for all existence and consciousness. Together, we saw everything everywhere – and all was being aware joyfully in the I AM THAT I AM.

Centred (t)here in the universal ground, this extraordinary awareness was omnipresent and omniscient, and I saw what it saw. From a viewpoint in my everyday consciousness, together we looked through each and every individual viewpoint at the same time as looking through my own particular point of view. My own perspective on the world was just one of the many personal points of view through which one and the same consciousness I AM saw reality as a whole. What we saw when looking up and out through all the wells of consciousness in existence together at once was one and the same self-awareness looking back from everything everywhere, seeing and knowing itself to be The One “I AM” of all that is, was and ever will be.

For a ceaseless moment, in my ordinary everyday awareness, the supreme I-Eye of the universe glimpsed itself in the myriad mirrors of existence and consciousness. In the augmented sphere of my individual mind that instant of eye-contact with God’s mind was like a knowing “wink” from the supreme personal identity. In that experience of God-realisation, the entire universe stood revealed as a living expression of one and the same ultimate divine unity that was present in, looking through and aware of all bodies, lives and minds in a single unchanging comprehension.

The One “I AM” of all that is, was and ever will be rested at the centre and circumference of the whole sphere of limitless and unchanging reality from God to dust and back, and I saw what it saw. Everywhere I looked I saw the self-awareness in me was already looking back at me from all things. At the same time, I was nothing more than a casual bystander who happened to be glancing into the lead role of creating, sustaining and fulfilling the whole of existence and consciousness from beginning to end. Plato was right all along. The universe was indeed a beautiful creature, blessed and alive.

That divine vision of reality showed the meaning of life was, as Alan Watts said, not a puzzle to be solved but an experience to be enjoyed. One taste of cosmic consciousness was enough to transform a long carried burden into a dearly held blessing. The Catholic teaching of an all-seeing all-knowing God had vexed me as a child because I’d been told that God disapproved. As an adult I realised that God only sees with infinite love and unconditional affirmation. To be transfixed in the loving gaze of the Lord is to live forever. O, my God: Screw me!

>• ´¯`•.¸ >• ´¯`•.¸>•

(p.80): Why does existence exist, and how do individual things come to be? Why do things happen the way they do, and what do we make of the regularities and cycles and routines and patterns and harmonies that show themselves to human experience? The reason for sharing my stories and reflections is not to prove anything but to illustrate a certain way of looking at the world. Reality is a constant source of amazement. The fact of conscious existence is, in my opinion, nothing less than a ceaseless breath-taking miracle. There is so much we take for granted and upon which we rely for the continuation of what we regard as ordinary reality. We like to think that we are in control of our lives – but, really, control is an illusion. When eating a meal with a knife and fork, I’m often surprised that the food doesn’t fall off the fork in the course of travelling from the plate to my mouth – although when it does fall there’s a certain joy to be found in the way the food falls down rather than across or up. Then, when washing the dishes afterwards, it’s a frequent wonder that just rubbing the long bristled brush over the surface of the plates and pots makes the dirt disappear so that the utensils sparkle cleanly in the sunlight streaming through the kitchen window.

Another source of consistent delight is the way wind will blow leaves across the surface of the little fish pond outside my study window. Also, I can hardly believe the sight and sound of a fast moving flock of brightly coloured parrots as they stitch their way through the blue sky and stop occasionally to rummage for gum-nuts in the neighbourhood trees that flower or tower or both. Sometimes after rain in the late afternoon, a brilliant rainbow will arc across a dark brooding sky and I’ll simply have to stop the car by the side of the road to admire the painterly vision that would have gladdened the heart of the English artist John Constable.

Flowers grow and day follows night, while my lungs keep breathing, my heart continues beating and my mind goes on thinking. All these simple facts of life astonish me. Spirit is already right here right now. It always has been; it always will be. Life is a miracle of spiritual management from God to dust and back. Occasionally we are afforded glimpses into the more unified structures of reality behind and beneath the surface appearances of difference and separation. If we’re grateful for such blessings and welcome their flashes of spontaneous meaning as signs of kindly intent from over our current horizon, they’ll keep coming to guide us on our way to the ultimate joy of coming home to God.

[Obed]

Dear Nick,
On reading your post,my first feeling was that of great happiness for you .
You give me far to much credit for what has come to you .
Everything that happens in this mysterious Universe is due to the
Universe.No single individual can take credit for anything.
I am only to happy that the Universe working through me could help you.
With love and joy for you
Obed
PS. good luck with the book

[Brian]

Nick, thanks for sharing your book excerpts. Most interesting. I liked your statement that our everyday awareness is a reflection of universal awareness. And how the most seemingly commonplace activities of life, such as washing the dishes, are suffused with cosmic mystery -- simply by the fact of being, of existence, that something is, not nothing.

[Peter K]

Nick comes across as being positive and life affirming in his outlook on life, of having that sense of wonderment that brings joy to being alive. This is a state of mind that no doubt we all would like to possess to a greater degree than what we may now have already.

There are a multitude belief systems and methods that can be used to achieve this state, but given that Nick himself provides a good example of the end result of his own methods and insights, I just may check out his book if I happen to come across it.

Nick, is your book in the bookshops or available only from you directly?

As Einstein once said, the most important decision we'll ever have to make in our lives is whether we live in a friendly universe or a hostile universe. And if we believe that we live in a hostile universe, we're going to be looking for that. We're going to be experiencing that. We'll be seeing it everywhere. We'll become someone who's always looking for occasions to be upset or to be offended or to be hurt, or depressed, or sad, or right, or whatever.

Let's live our lives in a friendly universe. And the more sense we can make of it, even better.

[ashy]

Posted by: Nick | March 20, 2009 at 07:14 PM

Now here is somebody who has been given the open hearted wonderment and gratitude to cherish and appreciate the graciousness of an all encompassing spirit.

It would do many other of the overtly intellectual set who have shut their portals of appreciation to recognize that they too are but an expression of the greater wonderment of life and love and not just a figment of their self induced deluded state of separateness.

[Catherine]

Now Ashy, that was fabulous. Where did you get to write like that? Very intellectual and adjectival. So get ready, I'm gently rolling you another ball of LIGHT... bend a little, one foot in front of the other, open your arms....OK...I'm sending it...NOW!

[Brian]

Catherine... beautiful. I felt it. Hope Ashy does also.