Comments on U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirationalTypePad2009-02-04T03:12:05ZBrian Hineshttps://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/tag:typepad.com,2003:https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2009/02/ug-krishnamurti-intriguing-irritating-inspirational/comments/atom.xml/Pratap Jadeja commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e201b8d2bca034970c2017-11-09T09:32:23Z2017-11-09T23:57:26ZPratap JadejaDoes it matter what UG or J Krishnamurti told people and how did they behave or what was their message...<p>Does it matter what UG or J Krishnamurti told people and how did they behave or what was their message to mankind. </p>
<p>in the end, nothing matters.</p>
<p>you all people are just making statement as per your likes and dislikes. Nature is not interested in so called enlightened people. even if they were, what does it mean for us. </p>
<p>Every time we hear someone with the hope of understanding something, we are just trying to imitate their concepts into ours. everybody has concepts and only concepts which they had out of their experience of some kind. </p>
<p>Look the real situation of your life which needs to be taken care which is more important than these concepts. these people has never helped anybody and will not be able to.<br />
</p>Homo Mysticus commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e201bb09cb343a970d2017-10-08T13:51:54Z2017-10-09T18:57:38ZHomo MysticusU.G. was a Cosmic Prankster and the joke was on you.<p>U.G. was a Cosmic Prankster and the joke was on you.</p>oshobh commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e201bb08a5c16c970d2016-01-01T18:43:08Z2016-01-02T02:02:03Zoshobhhttp://drsecureweb.blogspot.in/2016/01/u-g-krishnamurti-books-download.htmlNice One Hey, I have U. G. Krishnamurti books, You can download them from http://drsecureweb.blogspot.in/2016/01/u-g-krishnamurti-books-download.html<p>Nice One<br />
Hey, I have U. G. Krishnamurti books, You can download them from <a href="http://drsecureweb.blogspot.in/2016/01/u-g-krishnamurti-books-download.html" rel="nofollow">http://drsecureweb.blogspot.in/2016/01/u-g-krishnamurti-books-download.html</a></p>Tom commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e201b8d10fe709970c2015-05-07T11:35:50Z2015-05-07T17:56:38ZTomUG is the only one talking about the Stranglehold of Thought. He was right. Nothing else matters.<p>UG is the only one talking about the Stranglehold of Thought.</p>
<p>He was right. Nothing else matters.</p>Nietzsche commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e201a511ed0488970c2014-07-31T07:10:34Z2014-07-31T20:18:05ZNietzscheThis might be interesting here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMRrCYPxD0I<p>This might be interesting here?<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMRrCYPxD0I" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMRrCYPxD0I</a></p>George commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e201a511ea0160970c2014-07-27T19:57:16Z2014-07-28T03:02:03ZGeorgeRoger, I disagree. Even investigating the so called relative truth is going the wrong path. Pathless path is the way...<p>Roger, I disagree. Even investigating the so called relative truth is going the wrong path. Pathless path is the way to go.</p>Roger commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2017c386523a0970b2013-04-06T17:04:02Z2013-04-07T03:03:34ZRogerJimmy, The mind, brain activity and thoughts are good instrument(s) for understanding things or solving problems. But, you should realize...<p>Jimmy,</p>
<p>The mind, brain activity and thoughts are good instrument(s) for understanding things or solving problems. But, you should realize that things and problem solving are in the relative. In the realm of time and space, one can investigate relative truth.</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2017eea042423970d2013-04-05T23:30:20Z2013-04-06T03:10:26ZMike WilliamsHi Jimmy, Excellent question. Thought is a thing, not a WHO. Thought has no personality. Yet, like frosting on a...<p>Hi Jimmy,<br />
Excellent question.</p>
<p>Thought is a thing, not a WHO.</p>
<p>Thought has no personality. Yet, like<br />
frosting on a cake, thought believes<br />
it is personalized.</p>
<p>Can thought ever be personalized ?</p>
<p>It at the exact point thought personalizes<br />
itself, that all of mankinds problems begin.</p>
<p>The personalized thought, self, or WHO,<br />
is a belief of impersonal thought.</p>
<p>The self, WHO, is a belief. How do you get<br />
rid of a false belief ?</p>
<p>Not with a cannon, but with a broomstick.</p>
<p>See the falacy. WHO builds great monuments<br />
to itself. From Popes to Saints, they all<br />
think they are great, in all humility of<br />
course.</p>
<p>It was the jnani in the crowd that hollered<br />
out,' You Saints have no clothes. Take<br />
your vanity and pious righteousness and shove it.'</p>
<p>The Saints have screwed up the world.<br />
They belong in mental institutions.</p>Jimmy commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2017d428e1deb970c2013-04-05T17:35:23Z2013-04-06T03:10:26ZJimmyI'm not sure if I am missing something with regards to what UG has often said. He refers to mind/thought/memories...<p><br />
I'm not sure if I am missing something with regards to what UG has often said. He refers to mind/thought/memories as the instrument that has enabled us to know everything we know to date and that this instrument has not given us the results we desire so far. </p>
<p> He advises that the tremendous faith we place in this instrument to help us achieve the answer to our questions is the crux of the problem. So that one it dawns on us that we cannot derive answers from our thoughts, we realise there is nothing to understand and no problems to solve.</p>
<p>So my question is, if the mind and thoughts are not the instrument for understanding things or solving problems, by what method does he suppose he came to this understanding and solving this problem?? Surely through mind and thought?? </p>
<p>Like I said, maybe I am missing something. But is appears deeply flawed to me.</p>Moongoes commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2017c33549759970b2012-11-11T09:09:08Z2012-11-11T18:24:28ZMoongoesUG is just great http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHvQiDIjzvQ<p>UG is just great</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHvQiDIjzvQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHvQiDIjzvQ</a></p>Anveshana commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2017d3d825fd1970c2012-11-11T06:26:33Z2012-11-11T18:24:28ZAnveshanaHey people just read or listen to UG carefully!!! Whatever u r commenting on him is you description of UG...<p>Hey people</p>
<p>just read or listen to UG carefully!!!</p>
<p>Whatever u r commenting on him is you description of UG about which he was never worried. Guru or Non-guru is the craziness of people. </p>
<p>People talk to him and he reply back with the limitations of words. That is it. He never told to agree or disagree. That is left to you.</p>
<p>He is least bothered abt society, its judgement and EQUALLY HIS WORDS as all of them are JUST THOUGHTS</p>
<p>I feel (again a thought!!! to wonder at) u will just remain with no words after listening to him.......</p>
<p>i.e.IT<br />
</p>Kling Klang commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20176156463a5970c2012-06-13T02:04:29Z2012-06-13T16:59:45ZKling Klanghttp://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/krishnamurti.aspThe problem, Mike Williams, is that your beloved Jiddu was a fucking liar, he had a girl in every part,...<p>The problem, Mike Williams, is that your beloved Jiddu was a fucking liar, he had a girl in every part, contrary to his words, he used to say that gurus are a problem and not a solution but he never stopped being a guru himself! He left the TS but didn't stop being a bastard doing excatly what he said that shouldn't be done! UG on the other way round really lived what he found out by himself, with a thirst for truth, for being honest with himself, and not with the value system. So, Jiddu was just another one of the fake scoundrels, UG used the same lingo because he and Jiddu had the same teachers, but he was actually honest, different from Jiddu who was a phony.</p>Mar commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20167623eb877970b2012-02-13T05:45:59Z2012-02-13T19:07:39ZMarhttp://remembering-ug.blogspot.com/http://remembering-ug.blogspot.com/ Remembering U. G. Krishnamurti: A collection of his Talks, Quotes, Audiobooks, Photos and Videos<p><a href="http://remembering-ug.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://remembering-ug.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>Remembering U. G. Krishnamurti: A collection of his Talks, Quotes, Audiobooks, Photos and Videos</p>Blogger Brian commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e201675faef058970b2011-12-30T22:04:04Z2011-12-30T22:43:43ZBlogger Brianhttp://profile.typepad.com/brihinesPD, I assume you're including your own comment in the mix as another vocalization from a "barking dog." And wouldn't...<p>PD, I assume you're including your own comment in the mix as another vocalization from a "barking dog." And wouldn't everything UG said and wrote himself also be just BARK, BARK, BARK ?</p>
<p>So are you saying that all human communications are useless? (Not that barking is useless; our dog does a great job of telling us when the UPS truck pulls into our driveway.)</p>
<p>Or are you saying that certain people are entitled to make judgments about what is useless barking, and what is useful speech? </p>
<p>To me, that last attitude would be, well, excessively judgmental.</p>PD commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20168e4afb4ed970c2011-12-30T21:52:34Z2011-12-31T03:51:04ZPDThe comments posted here are proof what UG said: We all are barking dogs...There are only empty words and we...<p>The comments posted here are proof what UG said: We all are barking dogs...There are only empty words and we interpret those words based on the information and knowledge put in our head since our birth...here we are barking through typed words...that's it!</p>Marina commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a27c22c970d2011-07-27T09:12:00Z2011-07-27T16:08:29ZMarinaWell Mike, At first I was disagreeing with you about religion teaching contentment, as I see some religion teaching fear...<p>Well Mike,</p>
<p></p>
<p>At first I was disagreeing with you about religion teaching contentment, as I see some religion teaching fear through their stories and myths of heaven and hell – even if it is for ‘good’ purposes. But then on bringing it one step further, some of these religions can reinforce in the individual some form of contentment that can be used as a safety net or comfort zone from these doomed hells which these religions promise salvation from.</p>
<p></p>
<p>On gold - is there actually physical gold, do they actually have the gold that people are buying? How do you know where the ‘real’ gold is?</p>
<p></p>
<p>Marina<br />
</p>Marina commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a2713ef970d2011-07-27T06:51:00Z2011-07-27T16:08:29ZMarinaGood morning tAo, Why are you acting so grumpy? I disagree that adults don’t need myths or stories. All teachings...<p>Good morning tAo,</p>
<p></p>
<p>Why are you acting so grumpy?</p>
<p></p>
<p>I disagree that adults don’t need myths or stories. All teachings [including Ramana] use them. So you are on your ‘own’ with that one. And sometimes you can get more sense while dealing with kids than with adults. Some adults appear to never have grown up.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
[me]"tAo, but have you really inquired?"</p>
<p><br />
[tAo] “You are apparently mistaken or confused. The inquiry aforementioned, is simply inquiry into the nature of one's own identity.”</p>
<p></p>
<p>Well tAo, you sure seem to be ‘inquiring’ into everyone else’s identity. (the RS gurus)</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Do you like anyone tAo? :)</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Regarding the RS teachings changing; as Mungos said the method hasn't changed. </p>
<p></p>
<p>[me] "Ramana may say the direct path is self enquiry and I am not arguing with that but he also says for those who can't grasp that, that the path of bhakti/surrender or devotion will bring you there too."</p>
<p><br />
[tAo] So what? What does that matter? </p>
<p></p>
<p>It doesn’t matter. You yourself have said you have realised Ramana’s teachings but you seem to be at odds even with Ramana. Imagine if you started teaching Ramana?</p>
<p></p>
<p>“I do not teach only the ajata[doctrine of advaita Vedanta]. I approve of all schools. The same truth has to be expressed in different ways to suit the capacity of the hearer” ~ Ramana.</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p>I see all spiritual groups/teachers saying the same thing in different ways and from different levels. Granted, some give a 'fuller' picture, some more so than others but basically the same. And when asked about 'apparent' discrepancies on other 'paths', that particular 'teacher' will usually throw some light on the so called discrepancy [albeit a legitimate teacher]</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
tAo, I am not fighting with you. You want to see spiritual groups as wrong or frauds, fine, no big deal. It is just interesting. Maybe you mentioned before but why and when did you turn against RS? Do you think Charan was a fraud too?</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Marina<br />
</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015390328b07970b2011-07-27T01:58:07Z2011-07-27T02:00:18ZMike WilliamsReligion competes for men’s loyalties. Collectivists view religion as a device by which clerics keep the downtrodden masses content by...<p>Religion<br />
competes for men’s loyalties. Collectivists view religion as a device by which clerics keep the downtrodden masses content by offering a vision of something better in the next world.</p>
<p>If your goal is to bring about change, contentment is not what you want. You want<br />
discontentment. That’s why Marx called religion the opiate of the masses. Religion<br />
encourages contentment and dulls the anger and passion needed for revolutionary change.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.freedom-force.org/pdf/futurecalling2.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.freedom-force.org/pdf/futurecalling2.pdf</a></p>
<p>The History of the Federal Reserve Bank and Secret Societies (taking over the world RIGHT NOW )</p>
<p>GOT GOLD ?</p>tAo commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015434053eab970c2011-07-26T23:03:02Z2011-07-27T02:00:18ZtAoMarina: "tAo, Regarding BJ [...] I still don't see that he is changing the teachings but adding more light to...<p>Marina: "tAo, Regarding BJ [...] I still don't see that he is changing the teachings but adding more light to them."</p>
<p>Well, other people say that he has been altering and changing the teachings. So I guess they differ from you.</p>
<p><br />
Marina: "How do you explain the ghost story?"</p>
<p>I don't do ghost stories. </p>
<p><br />
"I see it similar to RS. As in the ghost story, [.....] When his teacher pointed out that there was no ghost, he was now in a position to see more clearly that there never was a ghost." </p>
<p>No, Ramana was simply referring to the illusory or ghost-like nature of the ego or 'I', as compared to the Self. </p>
<p><br />
"To me it is a deepening of the truth or a maturing."</p>
<p>I don't agree. People do NOT need to be fed myths or fantasies, no matter how you try to cut it. Adult people are not young children, so they don't need to be fed fantasies and illusions. </p>
<p><br />
"We don’t put down our mothers or fathers as frauds because they told us there was a Santa Claus."</p>
<p>its not the same. people who get intom sant mat & RS are not children. they don't need to be fed myths and fantasies.</p>
<p><br />
"Maybe they were unconsciously telling us that Santa represents our real selves [...] Maybe that was a lesson on our true nature." </p>
<p></p>
<p>"You can say alcohol is wrong. Men come home and beat their wives or kids and cause great pain so therefore drink must be banned but then what about the people that like a wee drink after a hard working day to relax and chill? Who is right?"</p>
<p><br />
"One thing I cannot understand tAo is when people get a glimpse of the truth and then subtly comes a belief that this path that they are on is the only one. Their way is the only way or the only true path."</p>
<p><br />
"What happened to we are all one?"</p>
<p>You are mistaken, I never said "we are all one". So what are you referring to?</p>
<p><br />
"Why do we need to make any other group wrong?" </p>
<p>Ask that to RS and the RS satsangis.</p>
<p><br />
"Why do we need to claim the ‘right’ way anyway?"</p>
<p>Ask that to the RS satsangis.</p>
<p><br />
"Why does it bother us what anyone else does or doesn’t do?"</p>
<p>Ask that to the RS satsangis.</p>
<p><br />
"Putting anything down as ‘wrong’ is acting superior and somewhere there is a belief of right and wrong, good and bad, superior and inferior."</p>
<p>Who are you talking about? It appears you are confused. Its not complicated. I simply said that your "BJ" is wrong... Why is he wrong? Because, apparently, he is now changing the teachings of RS/santmat... teachings that all his predecessors claimed never change. Many different commenters and satsangis have said and admitted that "BJ" is altering and changing the RS teachings. So go talk to them about it.</p>
<p><br />
"As 17 months said somewhere, being against someone or some group, even for ‘good moral’ purposes, is just more violence."</p>
<p>Thats a load of bullshit, imo.</p>
<p><br />
"Ramana may say the direct path is self enquiry and I am not arguing with that but he also says for those who can't grasp that, that the path of bhakti/surrender or devotion will bring you there too."</p>
<p>So what? What does that matter? </p>
<p><br />
"To me it ends in the same place."</p>
<p>Thats your opinion.</p>
<p><br />
"To say anyone should go a certain route one must need to know everything about that person and know what is good for them to make that decision."</p>
<p>I never said that anyone should or must "go a certin route".</p>
<p><br />
"All roads lead to Rome!"</p>
<p>No, not always. Cliches aren't always true.</p>
<p><br />
tAo said: "Sar Bachan, by Shiv Dayal Singh, is full of both intimations as well as outright claims that Sant Mat is singularly superior to all other spiritual philosophies, persuasions and practices. So "BJ" is wrong."</p>
<p>Marina replies: "I see it differently. How can anyone say their way is the only way?"</p>
<p>I think you are confused. I never said that any particular "way" is the "only way". But thats more or less what Soamiji and RS says. So go ask RS why they say that "their way is the only way".</p>
<p><br />
"If Shiv Dayal Singh was here right now I would question him on having the only way."</p>
<p>Then you should question him and not me.</p>
<p><br />
"But even saying superior to all other spiritual paths is not saying 'the only way'."</p>
<p>Not exactly the same, but very similar... "superior" and/or "the only way".</p>
<p><br />
"Maybe he thought RS was superior to other paths but I think it depends on the level and needs of the individual person."</p>
<p>I really don't care what you think. Its not about what YOU think. It was about what the founder of the RS Mat thought and stated. </p>
<p><br />
"And I also don’t know the context of why Shiv Dayal said that."</p>
<p>Then go read Sar Bachan... for therein is "the context".</p>
<p><br />
"And tAo, what really has changed?"</p>
<p>You tell me.</p>
<p><br />
"Is there really any death?"</p>
<p>That's a questiuon you will have to answer for yourself.</p>
<p><br />
"the mind cannot understand or do anything."</p>
<p>Thats merely your opinion.</p>
<p><br />
"No offence tAo, but if I was your ‘student’ I think you would have me black and blue at this stage."</p>
<p>Thats incorrect. I do NOT support, condone, or engage in violence. So don't intimate that I would. </p>
<p><br />
"I don’t need BJ’s acceptance the way I did"</p>
<p>Thats better.</p>
<p><br />
tAo said: “Thought will eventually subside naturally, through deep inquiry.”</p>
<p>Marina replies: "Have you looked at the thoughts of BJ being a ‘fraud’ etc?"</p>
<p>Well, 'BJ being a fraud' is simply my considered opinion, a conclusion based upon a number of different facts and evidence.</p>
<p><br />
"tAo, but have you really inquired?"</p>
<p>You are apparently mistaken or confused. The inquiry aforementioned, is simply inquiry into the nature of one's own identity.</p>
<p><br />
"I find when I have put someone down in anyway, it usually is saying more about me than the other person."</p>
<p>I wasn't "putting someone down". I was simply stating my own opinion. You take things far too personally.</p>
<p><br />
"usually when there is a negative feeling involved, it is a warning bell to check out ones thoughts or beliefs."</p>
<p>You'd better ask yourself about that. Because I don't have or hold any "negative feeling". </p>
<p><br />
"If we are not honest with ourselves, really honest, we can’t ‘move’ on."</p>
<p>Again, thats really something you may need to ask yourself.</p>
<p><br />
"Adyashanti who I really like said...."</p>
<p>I really couldn't care less about Adyashanti. I just have no interest in someone like that, nor any interest in what they say.</p>
<p><br />
"some people seem to ‘know’ about being ‘one’ or enlightened but there is still something lacking, be it compassion or openness or whatever and similarly you can have a heart awakening and feel ‘one’ with everything but are missing the intellectual side of it."</p>
<p>Thats nothing but a load of pseudo-spiritual mumbo-jumbo. Its nonsense and rubbish imo.</p>George commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20154340386a4970c2011-07-26T17:07:57Z2011-07-26T18:45:18ZGeorgeMarina, Thank you for your brutal honesty. It sounds like you have led a very eventful life with some impossibly...<p>Marina, </p>
<p>Thank you for your brutal honesty. </p>
<p>It sounds like you have led a very eventful life with some impossibly difficult events in it, I am quite amazed at how well you cope all things considered. Dunno what to say to some of those things, you are very brave.</p>
<p>I would just remark on one thing, ultimately you do not need to justify your beliefs to anyone else, that is one thing that is definitely your own. imho you must do whatever makes you most content in this life.</p>
<p>What is quite interesting for me is that even Brian seems to have some good things to say about RS, and some of the gurus as people, despite this site occasionally deteriating into an RS-bashing session. </p>
<p>Insofar as evidence is concerned, dont worry about that, I simply asked for your subjective feelings and thoughts on RS. I do put a lot of emphasis on science, but it is only a tool and there are many aspects of reality for which there is little or no evidence. Indeed it is most of the feelings that are deepest and have most meaning that cannot even properly be described, let alone evidenced.</p>
<p><br />
Tao, </p>
<p>Marina made no claims as to what RS stands for, she simply passed on what BJ has said to her personally. So while you might believe BJ is a hyprocrite for conflicting with your view of RS teachings, what Marina is providing is a simple account of what was personally said to her in reply to my request. <br />
</p>Marina commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20153902e824a970b2011-07-26T11:22:21Z2011-07-26T18:45:18ZMarinaWell tAo, Regarding BJ, I hear what you are saying but I still don't see that he is changing the...<p>Well tAo,</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Regarding BJ, I hear what you are saying but I still don't see that he is changing the teachings but adding more light to them. I find it more digestible.</p>
<p></p>
<p>For instance, back to the Ramana ghost story. <br />
You yourself tAo seem a man who has studied Ramana's teachings and have said you realised them. How do you explain the ghost story? I see it similar to RS. As in the ghost story, there is a boy that sees a ghost. He is extremely afraid. His father tells him he will protect him from the ghost, don't worry. I don’t think it would help him denying his fears at this stage.<br />
Next day he goes back with a his teacher and in the ‘daylight’ he sees it was not a ghost it was just a tree stump. Had he said his father lied to him because there was no ghost or taken the other side and said the teacher was calling his father a liar, both conclusions would be wrong. He obviously saw that he needed his father’s reassurance of protection at that particular time. When his teacher pointed out that there was no ghost, he was now in a position to see more clearly that there never was a ghost. </p>
<p><br />
To me it is a deepening of the truth or a maturing. </p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
We don’t put down our mothers or fathers as frauds because they told us there was a Santa Claus. Maybe they were unconsciously telling us that Santa represents our real selves and if you were good [true, enquiring, honest with ourselves] the outcome would be gifts [happiness, openness, integrity, freedom, oneness, enlightenment, bliss]. Maybe that was a lesson on our true nature. Then came the time when we were told there was no ‘Santa’ (time to grow up) it was our parents [teachers, guru, guides]. Some of us may have cried in disbelief –‘you are lying, there is a Santa’ (like my youngest son did ;)) Maybe then our parents say you will still get a gift at Christmas time.(a stage where we ‘see’ the light) Eventually, we are left to get the gifts for ourselves or we may get a ‘surprise’ when a gift appears from somewhere ‘out of the blue’(no trying), no explanation, no reason. We get surprised! lol</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
You can take it with anything. You can say alcohol is wrong. Men come home and beat their wives or kids and cause great pain so therefore drink must be banned but then what about the people that like a wee drink after a hard working day to relax and chill? Who is right?</p>
<p> </p>
<p><br />
One thing I cannot understand tAo is when people get a glimpse of the truth and then subtly comes a belief that this path that they are on is the only one. Their way is the only way or the only true path. This is separation in itself and it is putting one thing superior over another. Arrogance. Different medicine for different ailments.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
I think this grasping onto a belief even subtly is an attempt to hold onto the experience. It can be so subtle it can go unmissed for weeks, months, years or even a whole lifetime.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Take even the two zen schools. One says the ‘way’ is quick while the other says slow and steady. Now these two schools call each other names and more separation ensues. In other words, again, one is claiming superiority over the other. What happened to we are all one?</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Why do we need to make any other group wrong? Why do we need to claim the ‘right’ way anyway? Why does it bother us what anyone else does or doesn’t do? If I don’t like ice-cream, I don’t eat it. If I do, well I indulge in it to whatever degree I choose maybe even delude myself into thinking an ice-cream diet is healthy and all that ever should be eaten, thereby giving ‘ice-cream’ a bad name. Putting anything down as ‘wrong’ is acting superior and somewhere there is a belief of right and wrong, good and bad, superior and inferior. As 17 months said somewhere, being against someone or some group, even for ‘good moral’ purposes, is just more violence.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Also tAo, Ramana may say the direct path is self enquiry and I am not arguing with that but he also says for those who can't grasp that, that the path of bhakti/surrender or devotion will bring you there too. To me it ends in the same place. One may have a guru and focus on that and may see his guru's radiant form inside, then to realise 'I am that' which further inquired leads into who this ‘I’ is all eventually leading one to the Self anyway. Just like water flowing from all different sources back to the ocean.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Similarly, I may want to go to Dublin. I can take the direct way up the motor way or I can go by the back roads. Some people may not own a car and have to go by bicycle.[whatever place/state one is coming from at that moment]</p>
<p></p>
<p>To say anyone should go a certain route one must need to know everything about that person and know what is good for them to make that decision. </p>
<p><br />
All roads lead to Rome!</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
tAo when you say that: "Sar Bachan, by Shiv Dayal Singh, is full of both intimations as well as outright claims that Sant Mat is singularly superior to all other spiritual philosophies, persuasions and practices. So "BJ" is wrong."</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
I see it differently. How can anyone say their way is the only way? If Shiv Dayal Singh was here right now I would question him on having the only way. But even saying superior to all other spiritual paths is not saying 'the only way'. Maybe he thought RS was superior to other paths but I think it depends on the level and needs of the individual person. And I also don’t know the context of why Shiv Dayal said that. So I cannot make a judgement there.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
And tAo, what really has changed? There are still 4 vows. You may say that ‘no one will meet you after death’ or ‘meditation will get you there’, but what does even that mean? Is there really any death? And meditation will get you there? Yes, get you to realise the mind cannot understand or do anything. So I don’t really see any contradictions, just other ways of looking at the same thing.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Regarding BJ’s response to me ‘that I am no different than anyone else’, I don’t see that as a standard answer. Many people would condemn, judge, preach, tell me I was wrong. No offence tAo, but if I was your ‘student’ I think you would have me black and blue at this stage. Lol lol lol.<br />
I don’t need BJ’s acceptance the way I did tAo. I sure thought I needed that and approval and validation but I can’t get it from out there – well it doesn’t last. I have it all myself :)</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Yes tAo, nothing wrong with thoughts. Not a damned thing. When you say:</p>
<p>“Thought will eventually subside naturally, through deep inquiry.”</p>
<p>Have you looked at the thoughts of BJ being a ‘fraud’ etc? Not being smart tAo, but have you really inquired?<br />
I find when I have put someone down in anyway, it usually is saying more about me than the other person. That does not mean one has to ignore something but usually when there is a negative feeling involved, it is a warning bell to check out ones thoughts or beliefs. If we are not honest with ourselves, really honest, we can’t ‘move’ on.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Adyashanti who I really like said that there are different awakenings – you can have an intellectual awakening, a heart awakening and a gut awakening. (complete – all three) A lot of people may have one or the other or a mixture on some level. That explains why some people seem to ‘know’ about being ‘one’ or enlightened but there is still something lacking, be it compassion or openness or whatever and similarly you can have a heart awakening and feel ‘one’ with everything but are missing the intellectual side of it. A lot of the time the ‘gut’ is still even subtly holding onto or grasping[fear] this awakening and you can tell by the way they defend or come across as superior.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
I see that as one of the reasons why there apparently seems to be so many different ‘beliefs’ about the way ‘to go’.</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p>Marina<br />
</p>Mungos commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a2138ff970d2011-07-26T09:00:43Z2011-07-26T18:45:18ZMungosTao said: One of the cornerstones or fundamental premises of Sant Mat, is that the teachings of Sant Mat do...<p>Tao said:<br />
One of the cornerstones or fundamental premises of Sant Mat, is that the teachings of Sant Mat do not ever change, and have not ever changed. They are supposed to be the same now as they were a thousand year ago. Yet now this fellow BJ wants to change them??</p>
<p>-- when i heard Charan said that the method never changed and not the teachings i understand him said that method of listening the sound never changes and for 'simran or concentration' he said that there are many schools of concentration . And this 'BJ' fellow is not changing the method or so called teachings this is only different approach of so called teachings and it is just anothers man view of the same method of sound. I have my own life my own view point and my own right to do anything and think anything in life sometimes i do not give a second of others oppinion and sometimes i give my all concentration to others oppinion. I don't need any Brian or Mike to save me i am fuly opened and listens to everyone. And yes i am a moron a big one and this fellow BJ is also a moron but i also think that this all discussion about this BJ and RS is also boring as hell Tao is repeating him self Mike doesn't have anything new to offer just the words from books like 'tHAT' or 'SELF' boring as hell. Tao i would rather know from your music career and your life cause i respect you and like you but with this RS stuff you are repeating yourself just like RS people. And i think Mike is also just as dogmatic with his non guru dogma as RS dogma. As far as i am concerned one cannot know either one is GIHF or a fraud both claims to me are dogmatic stuff. And currently i will not change my view, whatever you guys write back. And yes Tao i agree with you when you said to someone that not only RS is discussed here and that there are other stuff too and i love other stuff too cause many times this RS stuff is really boring.<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTWSSCYUD4E" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTWSSCYUD4E</a></p>
<p>P.S. I just got Huang po and some Dzogchen stuff you recomended,thanks<br />
</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20153902d2a2e970b2011-07-26T06:07:46Z2011-07-26T06:16:19ZMike WilliamsA metaphor for disaster What we don't realize about Gurus is they must have one quality if they are sane....<p> A metaphor for disaster</p>
<p>What we don't realize about Gurus is<br />
they must have one quality if they <br />
are sane.</p>
<p>They must be sociopathic and have absolutely no heart.</p>tAo commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015433fec1ef970c2011-07-25T22:47:16Z2011-07-26T04:20:39ZtAoMarina: "BJ (not the books) has said many times, that RS is not the only way and to think so...<p>Marina: "BJ (not the books) has said many times, that RS is not the only way and to think so is arrogant. I also like that it is open to people to read or practise other ‘teachings’ and find our own comfort zone. (As I was told..." </p>
<p>That is not true. RS has been quite dogmatically touting its (supposed) superiority from the very beginning. Sar Bachan, by Shiv Dayal Singh, is full of both intimations as well as outright claims that Sant Mat is singularly superior to all other spiritual philosophies, persuasions and practices. So "BJ" is wrong.</p>
<p>Marina: "I found myself looking at the books which seemingly was saying one thing, and then I heard BJ say something which seemed to contradict a lot of these books."</p>
<p>Then what BJ says does not represent or reflect the bulk of Sant Mat. Just because he contradicts, does not alter or dismiss the teachings that was delineated before he arrived. One of the cornerstones or fundamental premises of Sant Mat, is that the teachings of Sant Mat do not ever change, and have not ever changed. They are supposed to be the same now as they were a thousand year ago. Yet now this fellow BJ wants to change them?? Then he is a hypocrite, since he claims to represent Sant Mat. So apparently "BJ" is not adhering to the timeless nature of the Sant mat. All of his predecessors adhered to the premise that the teaching of Sant Mat always remains the same, and never changes. </p>
<p>Marina: "On questioning BJ about this, he replied that these books where metaphors and not to be taken literally."</p>
<p>That is NOT what all of his predecessors, and all of their writings, have said.</p>
<p>Marina: "I can see that now and it makes sense."</p>
<p>Then you have been mislead... for it makes no sense at all. This "BJ" fellow does not determine what Sant Mat is. That has already been done long ago. He cannot simply go back and change the teaching. The Sant Mat teachings were established long before "BJ" ever came on the scene. So "BJ" is only showing that he is a fraud. One of the main cornerstones of Sant mat is that it never changes, and that it needs no re-interpretation or alteration. So therefore, if you believe and follow what "BJ" says, then you are not following or practicing Sant Mat as it has been taught by all the previous masters.</p>
<p>Marina: "all I ever got from BJ, even when I told him of my ‘terrible rule/vow breaking behaviour’, was not one of preaching, or even of ‘just do your meditation’, it was one of acceptance and a nice ‘comment’ like ‘you’re no different than anyone else sister’."</p>
<p>So what, thats just a standard reply. The real question is, why do you feel you need "acceptance" from some guy who contradicts and denies what all previous masters have said?? Therefore he holds no authority. So why do you look for acceptance from someone like that?? </p>
<p>Marina: "My earlier years of meditation were about ‘trying’ really hard to ‘get’ something I was missing and to stop these unwanted thoughts"</p>
<p>You cannot stop thoughts. No one can stop thoughts. And moreover, it is not necessary to do so. Thought is the nature of the mind (and the brain). You cannot control the mind. It is not possible. It is the nature of mind. So don't try. Thought will eventually subside naturally, through deep inquiry.</p>Marina commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a1dd25d970d2011-07-25T19:40:01Z2011-07-26T04:20:39ZMarinaWell George, The ‘I’ that got into RS is a different ‘I’ here now. It is hard to answer your...<p>Well George,</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
The ‘I’ that got into RS is a different ‘I’ here now. It is hard to answer your questions objectively based on all the ‘evidence’ that would need to be given. Talking about any one or a few aspects, is not giving the ‘true’ representation therefore is lacking and even if I could, it still would be lacking as some things just cannot be put into words. But I shall do my best.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
When I first heard of RS, 20 years ago ’93 (though I didn’t get initiated until ’98) I was loaded with fear. Fear was my first, last and middle name. I was bad, evil, unworthy, different......oh, the worst ever! [my beliefs] I had beliefs galore that had me being a victim for most part of my life. I needed something or someone to save me from ‘myself’ and future ‘hells’ and RS came along and seemed to fit the bill. It was a welcoming ‘hand’, a saving grace, a light at the end of a dark tunnel. If RS had said ‘there is no one to save’ I would have looked for something else.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
It gave me things to do – the four vows which I needed to gain some clarity until I could even think of standing on my own two feet. BJ (not the books) has said many times, that RS is not the only way and to think so is arrogant. I also like that it is open to people to read or practise other ‘teachings’ and find our own comfort zone. (As I was told one year at the mike in Dera)</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
For me yes, it has been a positive experience all the way. That is not saying when I think back to experiences, that it was all ‘bliss and light’. No actually far from it.</p>
<p><br />
During these times I have experienced the ‘loss’ of my son through suicide, the ‘loss’ of my first marriage, the ‘loss’ of my mother, among many other ‘losses’ which all brought strong emotional feelings, some confusion and fear. But now I can truly say these ‘losses’ and ‘gains’ (new husband, grandchild, etc) are just all and ever were just that, experiences which all come and go.</p>
<p><br />
None of them last unless we insist on them lasting or 'owning' them – that is, holding onto thoughts and beliefs and putting meaning onto it all. (Personalising)</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
I have to say, I have been to Dera every year since I was initiated. Although I read the books in the earlier days (which put the fear of God in me at times) I was more impressed with BJ. I found myself looking at the books which seemingly was saying one thing, and then I heard BJ say something which seemed to contradict a lot of these books. On questioning BJ about this, he replied that these books where metaphors and not to be taken literally. I can see that now and it makes sense. I no longer have BJ ‘up there’ on a pedestal – superior. He is more like a friend.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
One thing positive that comes to mind regarding BJ is that of acceptance. I deliberately didn’t say RS, as the ‘organisation and rules’ can in my view be dogmatic at times; nothing wrong with that either, if I don’t take it personal or make it bad. But all I ever got from BJ, even when I told him of my ‘terrible rule/vow breaking behaviour’, was not one of preaching, or even of ‘just do your meditation’, it was one of acceptance and a nice ‘comment’ like ‘you’re no different than anyone else sister’. Wow, I’m not? This indeed was very welcoming news to me! </p>
<p>Alas, there began (consciously) the start of the breakdown of beliefs which had caused huge seperation, that I was holding onto for dear life!</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Regarding going within or mystical experiences George, no for me I have not seen any lights [only the ones in my house] or sounds [apart from noisy thoughts] or radiant forms [dreams]. Sure I have had times of peace, stillness and nothingness....all just another experience.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
On meditation, I struggled with it for years, trying to stop my thoughts. My earlier years of meditation were about ‘trying’ really hard to ‘get’ something I was missing and to stop these unwanted thoughts. Oh boy, did I ‘try’. Did they stop? No. But I don’t take them seriously and more. They are just thoughts, coming and going. The believing of them has diminished a great deal.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I never really wanted ‘inner’ experiences though; as I had some of these ‘weird’ blissful/fearful experiences with the Tony Quinn group (kundalini) a few years before that. The ‘after effects’ from some of these experiences were anything but desirable; holding on and trying to repeat the experience and if it wasn’t that, it was trying to get rid of other experiences. </p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
But being honest, I thought one had to have these ‘lights, sounds, forms’ to get anywhere lol. I even told BJ one year that I didn’t want this Sach Khand thing, all I wanted was self realisation. Or in my own words – just to be happy. I thought back then that ‘happiness’ meant always being in a blissful state and never feeling sad, hurt, angry, ever again! Ha. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Now I see happiness as this feeling that is always there, even if there is sadness, anger or tiredness there. I put this down to acceptance or allowing whatever is happening with not so much of taking it personal these days.</p>
<p><br />
It was making situations ‘bad’ or something to be gotten rid of or indeed trying to repress them as ‘unspiritual’ or even trying to hold onto them, that caused problems.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
So I wouldn’t say RS has ‘given’ me something, it has been more like a ‘taking’ away. <br />
That was what meditation did for me – made me aware that there was nothing to ‘get’! Oh, the irony.</p>
<p><br />
<br />
Again, the Ramana ghost story sums it up for me. It was like BJ was minding for me, something I couldn’t accept in myself from where at the time, I was coming from.</p>
<p></p>
<p>It is not about RS being good or bad, or anything. It is about how I use it. It can be used as a pointer or as a means to delude oneself. </p>
<p><br />
Similarly, a knife can be used for useful purposes or as a murder weapon.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
What I am saying is, I may not understand [intellectually] how ‘things’ work but this quote below on how life is ever changing says a lot.</p>
<p>17 months mentioned a zen saying about a river above. I don’t know if it is from the same book, but a little zen saying I like:</p>
<p></p>
<p>“You can never put your hand in the same river twice.” </p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Meaning, you could go to the same river every day at the same time and put your hand in the same spot.....but the water is always different, always changing, always fresh, always new. </p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
I hope this George went someway to answering your questions, but if not, I’m sure you will let me know!</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Tara:<br />
“..................The guy [BJ]never ceases to amuse me.<br />
I've seen his personal ( HIHF ) side and professional ( GIHF ) role. <br />
Still, I can't decide whether I'm laughing at him or at myself.”</p>
<p></p>
<p>I like your honesty.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Marina</p>tAo commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a186679970d2011-07-24T22:32:21Z2011-07-25T03:12:27ZtAo17 months left: "If you really had heard enough of such things why would you be reading a blog everyday...<p>17 months left: "If you really had heard enough of such things why would you be reading a blog everyday that discusses these things on a regular basis?"</p>
<p>You clearly have a rather skewed and mistaken point of view here. Nice try, but your aim is way off the mark.</p>
<p>Fyi, the author of is blog does NOT discuss "BJ" on any regular basis. However, some commenters do seem to like to keep bringing up "BJ", but Brian (the author of this blog) only very rarely focuses specfically on this fellow "BJ". And moreover, I happen to read this blog for all the other articles that Brian writes and posts on various other subject matter, that are not related to "BJ". The repeated mentioning of this cult guru "BJ", is really only an obsession for a very few (not all) commenters. </p>
<p>17 months left: "I think what you mean is perhaps more like an Oakland Raiders fan going to a football game and saying, “Haven’t we had enough of Green Bay Packers fans at this game,” even though it is a game against Green Bay."</p>
<p>Thats not how it is at all. Its not like a sports game. Its more along the lines of... there are simply a few RS people who comment on this blog who like to keep drawing attention to this fellow "BJ", and pushing this "BJ" in everyone else's face. That is what I was referring to.</p>
<p>17 months left: "There is a zen book called “selling water by the river,” that makes light of the fact that all mystics are selling to us something we already have, on the mistaken notion that supreme cosmic consciousness is not already perfectly present here and now before we do anything."</p>
<p>Yes, thats true.<br />
</p>17 months left commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015433f80063970c2011-07-24T20:18:01Z2011-07-25T03:12:28Z17 months leftTao, you said, ' "BJ" this, "BJ" that. "BJ, BJ, BJ, BJ" Haven't we had enough of this pseudo-mystic,...<p><br />
Tao, you said, <br />
' "BJ" this, "BJ" that. "BJ, BJ, BJ, BJ"<br />
Haven't we had enough of this pseudo-mystic, this sinister vampire of soul who sucks out the sweat & blood and life & money of his gullible believers??.' </p>
<p> If you really had heard enough of such things why would you be reading a blog everyday that discusses these things on a regular basis?</p>
<p> I think what you mean is perhaps more like an Oakland Raiders fan going to a football game and saying, “Haven’t we had enough of Green Bay Packers fans at this game,” even though it is a game against Green Bay.</p>
<p>There is a zen book called “selling water by the river,” that makes light of the fact that all mystics are selling to us something we already have, on the mistaken notion that supreme cosmic consciousness is not already perfectly present here and now before we do anything.<br />
</p>Marina commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a1346b9970d2011-07-23T22:33:09Z2011-07-25T03:12:28ZMarinaHey George, good questions! I was starting to write a response and honestly I am way too tired tonight after...<p>Hey George,</p>
<p><br />
good questions! </p>
<p></p>
<p>I was starting to write a response and honestly I am way too tired tonight after a hard days work, in the office, when I could been outside enjoying the good weather that is 'scarce' these days. </p>
<p><br />
I do like to grumble now and then, to keep the balance - the middle 'path' lol</p>
<p>Seriously George, I will ponder and get back tomorrow, as the bed is calling me. I actually am deeply curious myself on the questions you asked ;)</p>
<p><br />
Marina</p>George commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a130216970d2011-07-23T21:12:50Z2011-07-23T22:15:02ZGeorgeMarina, So you believe that RS, and going within, has actually been a positive experience? Have you personally had any...<p>Marina, </p>
<p>So you believe that RS, and going within, has actually been a positive experience?</p>
<p>Have you personally had any inner mystical experiences?</p>17 months left commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20153901f61c7970b2011-07-23T19:33:09Z2011-07-23T22:15:02Z17 months leftThe insidious thing about beliefs is that they masquerade as facts. If I ask 20 people whether gravity is a...<p><br />
The insidious thing about beliefs is that they masquerade as facts.</p>
<p>If I ask 20 people whether gravity is a belief or a fact, at least 19 of them would insist gravity is a fact. But gravity is a belief. If you drop something, --- it falls, that is a fact. Why it fell... there may be many theories and beliefs.... gravity being one of them [albeit an intelligent one].</p>
<p>If you look at almost every news story you will find someone defending their beliefs. New York Daily News </p>
<p>“Two suspects charged in beating of Giants fan" [team identity/belief system, defending against harassment].</p>
<p>“Wave of anti-abortion laws passed” [bible belief system, defending against harassment by “murder-ers”].</p>
<p>One set of beliefs at war with another set of beliefs. It doesn’t matter if it is Giants fans beating Dodger fans, global warming believers fighting non-believers, Greenpeace activists fighting corporate polluters ... fighting is fighting. Taking up a position and defending it ... that is not the solution ... that is the problem.</p>
<p><br />
It is especially unpleasant when the believer feels they are superior. Whether it is a teacher acting superior to students, police acting superior to citizens, bosses acting superior to workers, one blogger acting superior to another, or a peace activist [morally superior] to a soldier.</p>
<p></p>
<p> In the end superiority is always the card that gets played.<br />
Someone may say, “ I am enlightened, therefore my belief is correct.” Or in India they may say, “I am a Brahmin so my beliefs are more correct,” or in Europe, “I am a “peace activist” so my beliefs are more correct [morally superior].” It always comes down to an additional belief in being superior therefore my beliefs are better. Welcome to the fight club.</p>
<p>All violence starts with beliefs, they are the seeds of violence.</p>
<p>But.. what do we really know? How far can beliefs take us?</p>
<p>Show me a man of peace who believes or anti-believes in anything and I will show you a violent person. <br />
Violent meaning: “intending to emotionally injure,” -- Oxford Dictionary</p>
<p>Is this not the entire situation with the human race? Power mad politicians with their paid armies and police squads forcing their beliefs on others [usually the belief that they are entitled to money]. </p>
<p>Then when it gets just too out of balance, the oppressed overthrowing them and in a few short years becoming the very type of oppressors that they overthrew. Mad with power, superiority and beliefs.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlHW1DFk-fY" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlHW1DFk-fY</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>The abortion rights activist criticizes the other side as being “true believers” --- that is believers in the bible. What they don’t realize is that their unbelief in the bible is as much a belief as what they fight against. They just believe the bible is wrong. Their abortion rights belief may be as rigid and fundamentalist as the bible believers --- maybe more so because<br />
they have the superiority of having a belief that makes sense to them while the other side can offer nothing but biblical quotes from one of the sorriest manuscripts to ever hit the earth.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
This belief in superiority of one person over another is the thing most loved by global rulers. They make sure it is drilled into everyone in schools and workplaces. In school we were taught that those with higher grades are superior, at work it’s one’s title, in church hierarchy the size of your hat, in society the status of your occupation or expense of your dress.</p>
<p> It used to rankle me at work when I was told to go see “my superior,” something in me knew we are all equal. But even in protesting calling someone “my superior,” I had to believe somewhere that they were superior in some respect or it wouldn’t have bothered me. </p>
<p>Part of the appeal of becoming a godman is that you can finally achieve perfect superiority over everyone. Even prime ministers, dictators and kings are of a lower order. How many who are practicing spiritual practices, are secretly hoping for such a triumph?</p>Marina commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a0ff295970d2011-07-23T07:25:29Z2011-07-23T17:28:29ZMarinaPS George, just before I head off to work (yeah I know, I am supposed to have taken early, early...<p>PS George, just before I head off to work (yeah I know, I am supposed to have taken early, early retirement, but they are stuck so they asked me to step back in for a few days)</p>
<p></p>
<p>Talking of 'cows' I find it funny. Now I am seeing cows everywhere.</p>
<p><br />
I was just reading a bit of Ramana "Be as You Are" this morning outside in the beautiful sunshine while having a smoke and I came across this......</p>
<p><br />
Q:Why cannot the mind be turned inward in spite of repeated attempts?</p>
<p><br />
A:It is done by practice and dispassion and it succeeds only gradually. The mind, having been so long a cow [lol] accustomed to graze stealthily on others' estates, is not easily confined to her stall. However much her keeper tempts her with luscious grass and fine fodder, she refuses the first time. Then she takes a bit, but her innate tendency to stray away asserts itself and she slips away.....If once it [mind] finds its inner happiness it will not wander outward.</p>
<p>lol lol lol</p>
<p><br />
Marina</p>Marina commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20153901c378a970b2011-07-23T05:12:11Z2011-07-23T06:06:15ZMarinaGeorge :)) Well Mike, "Your only purpose here is to harass exsatsangis." Harass ex-satsangis??? Oh come on Mike, get real....<p>George :))</p>
<p><br />
Well Mike,</p>
<p></p>
<p>"Your only purpose here is to harass<br />
exsatsangis." <br />
Harass ex-satsangis??? Oh come on Mike, get real. Where is your proof of this? </p>
<p></p>
<p>Poor, poor arguement Mike. I haven't seen that sort of argument since I was about 5 yrs old on the playground.</p>
<p><br />
Why talk of things that suit only your side of the story?<br />
Ah maybe you don't want to honestly answer the question and have taken a poor line of defence. </p>
<p></p>
<p>I would like to hear more though Mike how you see that I harass ex-satsangis. I really would, seriously.</p>
<p><br />
Whatever happened to a 'good olde discussion'?<br />
But ok, fine with me. Don't talk to me.</p>
<p><br />
And I am not the one who has recently been bringing up BJ. So???</p>
<p></p>
<p>Marina</p>tAo commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a0ef635970d2011-07-23T02:56:44Z2011-07-23T05:00:04ZtAo"BJ" this, "BJ" that. "BJ, BJ, BJ, BJ" Haven't we had enough of this pseudo-mystic, this sinister vampire of soul...<p>"BJ" this, "BJ" that. "BJ, BJ, BJ, BJ"</p>
<p>Haven't we had enough of this pseudo-mystic, this sinister vampire of soul who sucks out the sweat & blood and life & money of his gullible believers??</p>
<p>BJ sucks. He really sucks. He's a modern-day vampire. Anybody who likes him, or believes in him is a complete moron.</p>
<p>Don't take the wrong direction<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SQC-X8TTY4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SQC-X8TTY4</a></p>
<p><br />
</p>17 months left commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a0e4855970d2011-07-22T23:58:40Z2011-07-23T05:00:04Z17 months leftIf one takes up a belief or identity, they may feel harassed if someone expresses something that doesn't support it....<p><br />
If one takes up a belief or identity, they may feel harassed if someone expresses something that doesn't support it. </p>
<p>If I take up a belief in Republicanism, a Democrat may be seen as a form of harassment. The more fundamentalist I am in my belief, the more harassed I will feel by someone expressing something else. </p>
<p>By fundamentalist, I mean rigid in holding the belief. It actually becomes quite disturbing and is only natural to try to shut it out. The more I resist and try to shut out the Democrat, the more disturbing it becomes to me. </p>
<p>I guess one can be a fundamentalist about almost anything.<br />
</p>George commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015433ed7e3d970c2011-07-22T20:41:20Z2011-07-23T05:00:04ZGeorgeMarina, I see you are irish, you buggers definitely got the gift of the gab - good god the irish...<p>Marina, </p>
<p>I see you are irish, you buggers definitely got the gift of the gab - good god the irish can only talk and drink up a storm.</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015433ed34c3970c2011-07-22T19:36:41Z2011-07-23T05:00:04ZMike WilliamsHI George, Yes, I cannot read your thoughts, nor you mine. Again, you are assuming your thoughts are personal. That...<p>HI George,</p>
<p>Yes, I cannot read your thoughts, nor you<br />
mine.</p>
<p>Again, you are assuming your thoughts<br />
are personal. That means you are<br />
personalizing impersonal thought.</p>
<p>You still BELIEVE there is a self<br />
that is the thinker of thought.</p>
<p>What in you is there that can personalize<br />
thought ?</p>
<p>Can you find anything ?</p>
<p>Hi marina, You said :</p>
<p>Regarding how much money Gurinder has, it doesn’t bother me.</p>
<p>I personally cannot find fault with B J (Gurinder) with anything he has said...</p>
<p>I do like him and think he has something.</p>
<p>end quotes</p>
<p>I honestly do not want to talk to<br />
you. Your only purpose here is to harass<br />
exsatsangis. </p>Marina commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015433ecca5f970c2011-07-22T18:22:20Z2011-07-23T05:00:04ZMarinaOh Mike, why the instistence on who my guru is or is not? Who cares? Nobody else but you seem...<p>Oh Mike,</p>
<p>why the instistence on who my guru is or is not? Who cares? Nobody else but you seem to. And you seem to know already.</p>
<p>But....just to satisfy you I will post a link to one of my first posts on the blog and anyone interested can see for themselves. Of course that was way back then, all those weeks ago. Things may have changed....but anyway, on your insistence...</p>
<p><br />
<a href="http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2011/05/has-gurinder-singh-revised-sant-mat-to-v-30.html?cid=6a00d83451c0aa69e2015432379048970c#comment-6a00d83451c0aa69e2015432379048970c" rel="nofollow">http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2011/05/has-gurinder-singh-revised-sant-mat-to-v-30.html?cid=6a00d83451c0aa69e2015432379048970c#comment-6a00d83451c0aa69e2015432379048970c</a></p>
<p><br />
Now will you answer my questions?</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p>George,</p>
<p><br />
I think you may think again when you say:</p>
<p>"...cows do not know of the law of relativity...."</p>
<p><br />
We have a very special cow here in Ireland who is now known as the "Bovine Einstein" </p>
<p><br />
I have posted it before, but just in case you missed it, it is worth the 2 minute watch lol lol</p>
<p><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfMGpEmiQSU&NR=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfMGpEmiQSU&NR=1</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>Marina</p>George commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015433ec7d9b970c2011-07-22T17:24:04Z2011-07-23T05:00:04ZGeorgeMike "Impersonal thought mistakenly personalizes itself. All thought is impersonal....Can you find the exact instant the impersonal thought in your...<p>Mike</p>
<p>"Impersonal thought mistakenly personalizes itself. All thought is impersonal....Can you find the exact instant the impersonal thought in your head 'believes' it is 'your' thought?"</p>
<p>But what you saying is not not clear, nor does it explain our reality as we experience it. If thought is impersonal as you say, why can you not read my thoughts nor I yours? So thought is completely personal or subjective. </p>
<p>The only way thoughts become impersonal is when they are imperfectly shared, through communication, of which humans have the most well-developed communication skills via language; but even language inadequately captures personal thoughts.</p>
<p>What would you call the particularly unique configuration of atoms that gives rise to your thoughts? is this not a 'self'? It certainly is uniquely personal and individual.</p>
<p>Are you saying that thought or some sort of cosmic consciousness is ultimate reality and that each of us taps into this errenously believing it to be our own?</p>
<p><br />
Marina, </p>
<p>You are almost certainly correct that our human minds and conditioning place value and meaning on how we experience reality. </p>
<p>And yet regardless of our background, nearly all human beings of all cultures, have tried to understand the world around them and our place in it. </p>
<p>Perhaps human brains do complicate matters, but they are an organ specifically designed to interact and make sense of teh world around us. The human brain is particularly distinquished in two ways, which often come into conflict.</p>
<p>That is, ppl are often referred to as being left or right brained, logical vs the artistic, analytical vs intuitive, scientific vs mystical, etc.</p>
<p>Put another way it is often said science can answer the 'how' questions, but not the 'why' questions. Both questions enable humans, more than any other animal to seem to be better understand or make sense of the world around us. As far as we know, cows do not know of the law of relativity and a walrus does not appreciate bach or bob dylan. </p>
<p>Perhaps life is just a manifestation of the universe to make sense of order, and humans are a relatively highly-evolved evolutionary manifestation of the universe trying to understand itself?<br />
</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015433ebd5b0970c2011-07-22T14:57:06Z2011-07-23T05:00:04ZMike WilliamsHi Marina, Tell the people here who your Guru is.<p>Hi Marina,<br />
Tell the people here who your <br />
Guru is.</p>Marina commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a099ffd970d2011-07-22T06:11:52Z2011-07-23T05:00:04ZMarinaWell George, "how could such a reality be designed by a loving creator? Where the existence of lifeforms is dependent...<p>Well George,</p>
<p><br />
"how could such a reality be designed by a loving creator? Where the existence of lifeforms is dependent on the consumption of other lifeforms."</p>
<p><br />
I could say, maybe we have been those lifeforms that once existed and are now in this form...I could give karma theories, evolution theories, personal theories, spiritual theories but the true answer is - I don't know.</p>
<p></p>
<p>But I do know we human animals do make some things good and some things bad according to our likes and dislikes and judgements. And we also have a tendency to hold onto these er..beliefs all our life with unmovable 'faith'.</p>
<p></p>
<p>....but as I say George, I don't know.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I still say though, that reality is not posing these questions on life, realms, no answers, no afterlife, no meaning, no purpose, no god, but our lil brains are. Brains can make more out of what is real than what is actually there. Anything is possible depending on our viewpoint and beliefs, so whatever we believe becomes our reality and we see things from our coloured glasses perspective whereas someone with different coloured glasses see something completely opposite and we argue from there - usually. But it is all good, as maybe some of our notions that are not 'healthy' or 'true' can be let go of, if need be and if we are open.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Hi Mike,</p>
<p><br />
You say the above guru's I mentioned are not my guru's.<br />
I say they are. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Why do I need to tell people here who my guru is anyway? They already know if they have been reading my posts so I am not trying to hide anything - I have nothing to hide. Nobody is asking me who my guru is and you already know. So why ask the question, where are you coming from?</p>
<p></p>
<p>What has my question to you, which you again, have avoided, got to do with who my guru is anyway? Why is it so important to you that people know who my guru is before you answer my question?</p>
<p></p>
<p>Mike it seems an indirect way of trying to avoid answering the question I put to you by trying to put it back on me. </p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
Marina</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a084e6e970d2011-07-22T00:43:17Z2011-07-22T03:45:26ZMike WilliamsHi Marina, Again, I am asking who is your Guru. Its not the things you said and I can understand...<p>Hi Marina,<br />
Again, I am asking who is<br />
your Guru. Its not the things<br />
you said and I can understand<br />
why you are trying to hide him.</p>
<p>But, for me to answer any of your<br />
questions, you need to tell these<br />
people herre who your Guru is.</p>
<p>I already know. But, the people<br />
here don't, so why don't you tell them.</p>
<p>Hi George,<br />
The self is very simple. The thoughts<br />
in your head are not your self, until<br />
you identify with them via personalization.</p>
<p>Impersonal thought mistakenly personalizes<br />
itself. All thought is impersonal.</p>
<p>Thought is a thing. Thought does not<br />
have a persona.</p>
<p>But, what in your brain personalizes thought<br />
as 'my' thought ?</p>
<p>Can you find the exact instant the impersonal<br />
thought in your head 'believes' it is 'your'<br />
thought ?</p>
<p>There is a subconscious barrier which believes<br />
there is a WHO present.</p>
<p>But, WHO is the thinker of thought ?</p>
<p>Can you find the thinker of thought ?</p>
<p>Consciousness is not the thinker of thought<br />
because consciousness is also impersonal.</p>
<p>WHO thinks they are manipulating thought<br />
in your head ?</p>George commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e201539014bc86970b2011-07-21T23:32:04Z2011-07-22T03:45:26ZGeorgeMike, Too much vagueness. What is a self? Explain it as you would to a two-year old. Marina I think...<p>Mike, </p>
<p>Too much vagueness. What is a self? <br />
Explain it as you would to a two-year old.</p>
<p><br />
Marina</p>
<p>I think the hardest question reality poses, probably for most ppl on this board, is confronting the possibility that there are no hidden spiritual realms, no answers, no afterlife, no meaning, no purpose, no god - only a miniscule existence of time as if one was never there. </p>
<p>Take evolution for example, nature red in tooth and claw where only the fittest survive and alternative viewpoints are superfluous and crushed out of existence - how could such a reality be designed by a loving creator? Where the existence of lifeforms is dependent on the consumption of other lifeforms.</p>
<p>Your example of a sunset is a good one, but its an aesthetic judgement that depends on personal taste, tho the question as to why nature and beauty inspire such feelings of transcendence in the human animal is an interesting one in itself. </p>
<p>But its quite a different claim to say "I think a sunset is beautiful" as compared to "there is no sunset, its an illusion".</p>Marina commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015433e7e37b970c2011-07-21T22:57:30Z2011-07-22T03:45:26ZMarinaHello Mike, you ask, "Who is your Guru ? tiredoldstudent" myguruistheskythegrasstheseamytwoyearoldgrandson. everyoneandeverythingicomeincontactwith.realityasawhole. Now Mike, can you answer my question I...<p>Hello Mike, you ask,</p>
<p><br />
"Who is your Guru ?</p>
<p>tiredoldstudent"</p>
<p><br />
myguruistheskythegrasstheseamytwoyearoldgrandson. everyoneandeverythingicomeincontactwith.realityasawhole.</p>
<p><br />
Now Mike, can you answer my question I posed to yourself on the other thread??? :)</p>
<p><br />
Marina</p>Marina commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015433e7b6b3970c2011-07-21T22:17:52Z2011-07-22T03:45:26ZMarinaOk George, I too deem myself to have a built in 'bullshit' detector and as for asking 'why', I don't...<p>Ok George,</p>
<p><br />
I too deem myself to have a built in 'bullshit' detector and as for asking 'why', I don't think I have gotton past the 2 yr old stage of asking whys. I have done my employers head in, in the past when she asked me to do certain things that didn't make sense to me, and I wouldn't do them if I thought it sounded stupid and was not backward about coming forward in saying so. Her answer a lot of the time was, "just do it". I think she watched the Nike add too much!</p>
<p><br />
"....they don't get the gist of the matter" you say about 'flakish' people.</p>
<p><br />
Well, what is the gist? I don't see reality posing any hard questions. In fact, to me reality is reality, as simple as that, until we give reality meanings and have narrations going on in our heads regarding reality and what it supposedly all means.</p>
<p><br />
For example, we see a sunset and narrate how beautiful it is. The sunset is just the sunset without add ons. Someone else may say it is not beautiful and then we argue the point and come to some agreement (or not) about our beliefs and interpretations about it. If enough of us agree or if 'scientists' take their camera equipment out and 'measure' it and compare it with other sunsets, then it becomes proof.</p>
<p><br />
So what good does it do me to argue with someone with a different take or viewpoint than my own? I only seem to want to do that when I want to be right or to have people to conform to my view. </p>
<p><br />
Facts, according to my ideas, are merely the elements of truths, and not the truths themselves; of all matters there are none so utterly useless by themselves as your mere matters of fact. ~ Henry Mayhew</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
That is my take on it anyway. If you 'see things' differently, I am open to hear about it.... ;)</p>
<p><br />
Marina</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a0782b0970d2011-07-21T21:36:35Z2011-07-22T03:45:26ZMike WilliamsHi Marina, Who is your Guru ? tiredoldstudent Hi George, The jnani is not an exhalted state. They have simply...<p>Hi Marina, <br />
Who is your Guru ?</p>
<p>tiredoldstudent</p>
<p>Hi George,<br />
The jnani is not an exhalted state.<br />
They have simply realized no self.<br />
No religion, or status about it.</p>
<p>Thought creates the self by personalization<br />
of impersonal thought. This 'self belief'<br />
dominates our lives, until we see the folly<br />
of its charade.</p>
<p>The self belief is lost all at once.<br />
No steps, or stages. It's always now.</p>
<p>The Guru teaches us we have a self to get<br />
rid of. The jnani tells us we never had a self <br />
we could have ever got ridden of.</p>George commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a06cc9b970d2011-07-21T19:09:49Z2011-07-21T19:56:00ZGeorgeHi Mike, So you are saying the sumtotal of the jnani's teaching is that there is 'no self'? What is...<p>Hi Mike, </p>
<p>So you are saying the sumtotal of the jnani's teaching is that there is 'no self'?</p>
<p>What is this 'self' strawman thats been created to be torn down? Is it a soul, or some unchanging aspect of our personality, or a sense of I-ness, or a sense of our own bodies or our minds ability to control our own bodies?</p>
<p>I dont think science has at all proven or even agreed what a self is. Blackmore, Bagliane and Metzinger all give hypothesis, which are more philosophical than scientific. A more scientific view might be that you (and me) are each a unique configuration of atoms from which a unique consciousness emerges. Could this be a self? </p>
<p>The existence of a soul has been argued over since the dawn of man, the jnani says no, others say yes. there's no firm evidence either way.</p>
<p>Marina, </p>
<p>Glad to be of service. Yes my take is you are flakeish in a good way being tolerant to most ppl, but its good that you dont swallow wholesale all thrown your way. I perhaps am quite different and need to have more faith, but i seem to have an in-built bullshit detector that wants to know 'why'? </p>
<p>Flakes are wonderful ppl, they dont put others down and they are generally well loved. However, they dont get to the gist of the matter. They are very useful in smoothing relations, but as useless as tits on a buffalo (scuse my french) when faced with the hard questions that reality poses. </p>
<p>Everone should be entitled to their point of view, and to believe whatever they want, but some viewpoints are more accurate than others, and we make that judgement upon objective evidence. For example, the claim that the earth is round as opposed to being flat are not equally correct views. They are in conflict and one is less true than the other. We argue with one another and provide evidence to try get closer to the truth. </p>Marina commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a0625c2970d2011-07-21T17:01:11Z2011-07-21T17:04:07ZMarinaWell Georgie peorgie, you do so make me laugh at times! I liked your post on ‘flakes’ and ‘enlightened’ ones....<p>Well Georgie peorgie, you do so make me laugh at times!</p>
<p><br />
I liked your post on ‘flakes’ and ‘enlightened’ ones. Lol lol</p>
<p></p>
<p>Now if I was to see myself in one category or another, I guess I would have to say I am a flake. In saying that, I am getting a bit sick and tired and utterly fed up with this whole ‘spiritual’ thing. So George, what are the other options in your estimate?</p>
<p></p>
<p>I am beginning to think that gathering too much info on all these ‘spiritual’ matters could leave one being interviewed by Richard (Bradshaw-Go on a belief diet.....thread) and I wonder would he deem some of us ‘mentally’ deluded when we may say we are jnanis or enlightened beings or some of the other stuff he may read here!?!?</p>
<p></p>
<p>Being a ‘flake’ (or having the belief) I do also have a tendency to want to tear people off their pedestals when I hear anyone claiming enlightenment or some ‘jnani’ state and subtly putting others down. Now I don’t know what that is about really, but one thing for sure is – I don’t do pedestals! Yuck. (maybe I am not a real flake)</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
George you say:</p>
<p>“Seems to me the world would be a nicer place generally with more flakes, even though they are totally divorced from reality.”</p>
<p>Why would you say flakes are totally divorced from reality when they are ‘letting’ be what they see or hear and not ‘trying’ to change things or make things different? Each path is equally valid to the one who claims it to be [in their experience] and why would anyone want to have it any other way? Whose business is it but the ‘individual’ person(s)? Different strokes for different folks.<br />
The problem seems to arise when the individual then claims that their experience (viewpoint) is the only way or superior to others.</p>
<p><br />
So why George, again, do you see flakes totally divorced from reality???</p>
<p></p>
<p><br />
I agree with you when you say:</p>
<p>....“There is no objectivity to any of this, no evidence at all to suggest one is more correct than another. This is fine, but again I then cannot understand by what means you are so quick to critique other gurus to be evil, fakes or deluded.”</p>
<p><br />
If one was to claim some ‘state of being’ fine, but why discount others?? Good question George.</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p>Marina<br />
</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a060e21970d2011-07-21T16:42:51Z2011-07-21T17:04:07ZMike WilliamsHi George, We have been discussing Dr. Susan Blackmore and friends. Science has proven there is no self and that...<p>Hi George,<br />
We have been discussing Dr. Susan Blackmore<br />
and friends.</p>
<p>Science has proven there is no self and that consciousness is not continuous.<br />
(Consciousness is an effect, not a cause)</p>
<p>Science has proven the jnani correct<br />
and the Guru wrong.</p>
<p>Until you realize that there is no self,<br />
for yourself, it will be difficult<br />
for you to understand.</p>George commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a0539a0970d2011-07-21T14:03:14Z2011-07-21T15:42:38ZGeorgebut Mike, very simply, what is the difference between a jnani and a guru? And perhaps more importantly, how does...<p>but Mike, very simply, what is the difference between a jnani and a guru?</p>
<p>And perhaps more importantly, how does one verify a jnani is the real deal whatever that is?</p>
<p>There is no objectivity to any of this, no evidence at all to suggest one is more correct than another. This is fine, but again I then cannot understand by what means you are so quick to critique other gurus to be evil, fakes or deluded.</p>
<p>While i find a lot of this stuff interesting, most of you guys seem to bypass the obvious step of questioning why your particular jnani (or guru) is the real deal while others are not. </p>
<p>It seems there are two types of spiritualists: those ultra-tolerant peaceful souls that engage in a lot of postmodern relativism declaring every path or claim to be equally valid (the 'flakes'), and those who claim there's is the true path without providing a jot of evidence to support their beliefs over others (the 'enlightened').</p>
<p>Seems to me the world would be a nicer place generally with more flakes, even though they are totally divorced from reality. The enlightened talk a great game, but thats all it is, talk. </p>
<p>All i want to know is - in 3,000 years of jnani's, gurus and mystics - what have any of them ever said to make them worthy of such titles of master or teacher. What unique knowledge or insights of our reality do these men possess?</p>
<p>Einstein put it simply E=MC2 and then proved it, what did UG Krishnamurti teach?</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015433e26b43970c2011-07-21T03:53:38Z2011-07-21T07:19:27ZMike Williams" I cant understand the difference between a 'jnani' and a 'guru'." "how can a diehard atheist be in desperate...<p>" I cant understand the difference between <br />
a 'jnani' and a 'guru'."</p>
<p><br />
"how can a diehard atheist be in desperate <br />
search of god?"</p>
<p>" sincerity, truth, nirvanna, enlightement, <br />
non-mind, nothingness and a whole lot of <br />
other half-truths "<br />
quote George</p>
<p>There may be one jnani and 10,000 fakes<br />
will parrot him. Unless you spend many years<br />
of searching and research as I have, there<br />
is no way to know who is jnani and WHO is<br />
not.</p>
<p>The problem is, the jnani sees little need<br />
for people to become enlightened. So,<br />
it is extremely rare a jnani will teach.</p>
<p>The jnani is in direct contradiction to<br />
the Guru. Like north and south poles.</p>
<p>The jnani instead will help humanity in<br />
many different ways. If they teach, it<br />
is only to dispel false beliefs that<br />
are hurting people.</p>
<p>The jnani is the Gurus worst nightmare.</p>
<p>The jnani debunks everything that causes<br />
friction in the world.</p>
<p>I agree "sincerity, truth, nirvanna, enlightement, <br />
non-mind, nothingness and a whole lot of <br />
other half-truths"(I will add duality,<br />
oneness, holiness and humilty).</p>
<p>What the jnani perceives, false teachers<br />
can only guess at and speculate on.</p>
<p>They write endless books of nonsense.</p>
<p>That I am an atheist desperately in search<br />
of God is a joke. At least the search for God<br />
part is.</p>
<p>My long search for God had me finding no God.</p>
<p>But, I did discover negative and positive<br />
powers at work in the world.</p>
<p>But, only those involved with the negative<br />
or positive powers, know of these powers.</p>
<p>A person can speculate they don't exist, or do<br />
exist.</p>
<p>What they should be saying is,<br />
"I don't know if they do or not.</p>George commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20153900dde19970b2011-07-20T23:10:26Z2011-07-21T07:19:27ZGeorgeMike, You seem like a very knowledgeable guy on all this spirituality stuff, but there is no consistency. You need...<p>Mike, </p>
<p>You seem like a very knowledgeable guy on all this spirituality stuff, but there is no consistency. You need to clear up your thinking. </p>
<p>Firstly how can a diehard atheist be in desperate search of god? </p>
<p>Someone who truly doesn't believe in something, does not search for that thing. At best you sound like an agnostic, and one who is exceptionally prone to spiritual teachings. Nothing wrong with this, but its not an atheistic worldview.</p>
<p>As for kundalini and chakras, i cant see how this is anymore believable or verfiable than RS' seven planes or realms of existence. Moreover, I cant understand the difference between a 'jnani' and a 'guru'. </p>
<p>Just because someone says they are not a guru or have no teachings, does not mean they actually do not believe that. If they have no teachings, then why communicate at all? </p>
<p>imo half of these 'teachers' are con-men and the other half have simply been caught up in their own bollocks. Its all psycholigical, because its the human mind at work. The most powerful complex and misunderstood organism in existence. A psycholigical conjob with ppl claiming sincerity, truth, nirvanna, enlightement, non-mind, nothingness and a whole lot of other half-truths about an organ they cannot possible hope to understand. </p>
<p>No-one, no single person on this planet has the answers. Never have had and never will have. An atheists worldview can only be that there is no meaning to life other than what we our-selves each decide to make of it - for the extremely brief period our particular set of atoms are bound together before the law of entropy inevitably wins out. </p>
<p>Some things are within our control, other not. Some win the lottery, others board a 747 that goes down. Good people suffer, bad people prosper, and vice versa. </p>
<p>As for these jani's, gurus, mystics, sages and spiritual masters - seems to me one gets more wisdom and insight from forrest gump, homer simpson and kenny rogers. <br />
Shit happens, life is a box of chocolates you never know what you going to get, treasure the good, weather the bad, and the best you can hope for is to die in your sleep.</p>George commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8a00abac970d2011-07-20T22:05:34Z2011-07-21T07:19:27ZGeorgeI hope this does not come accross as negative, but i sincerely think u are all cooked in the pip....<p>I hope this does not come accross as negative, but i sincerely think u are all cooked in the pip.</p>
<p>Never have i laughed so much as this thread. </p>
<p>Thank you kindly.</p>tAo commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015390062fdb970b2011-07-19T23:21:53Z2011-07-20T04:14:12ZtAowell, years ago, i had some personal contact U.G. he was really mellow and easygoing, and sane and sober headed......<p>well, years ago, i had some personal contact U.G. </p>
<p>he was really mellow and easygoing, and sane and sober headed... way more than you seem to be. and he certainly was not "evil".</p>
<p>you come across as rather crazy and fanatical. so you may be "still alive", but i don't think you are "well".</p>TheEndofUGK commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015390048302970b2011-07-19T18:04:44Z2011-07-19T19:29:16ZTheEndofUGKThis man is the most evil person ever to incarnate on this planet masquerading as some wise sage..his is in...<p>This man is the most evil person ever to incarnate on this planet masquerading as some wise sage..his is in fact an EXTREMELY MALEVOLENT reptoid alien intelligence that has infiltrated human consciousness at virtually every level and should be COMPLETELY extirpated if we as a species of HUMAN BEINGS are to thrive..his discarnate spirit doles around and possesses vulnerable souls and subsequently intimidates them deceives them feeds off them and is intent on their total destruction....the misguided fools think it's enlightenment<br />
Unfortunately desperate people have fallen for his spiel instead of rigorusly following their own built-in inner guidance system and rejecting all teachers including him...every reference of him and his teaching should be utterley destroyed and deleted if we as a species are to survive.<br />
PLEASE TAKE NOTE AND AVOID THIS MAN'S TEACHINGS LIKE THE PLAGUE AS IT WILL EVENTUALLY LEAD INTO A TRAP AND ULTIMATELY YOUR VIOLENT RUIN AND DEATH !!<br />
I'M DEADLY SERIOUS HERE AND SPEAK FROM YEARS OF DIRECT EXPERIENCE!!! <br />
THANK GOD I'M STILL ALIVE & WELL !!!!</p>bb commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e889205e7970d2011-05-21T15:19:26Z2011-05-21T16:23:00Zbbhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13445951 UG . just thought of sharing the link<p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13445951" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13445951</a> UG . just thought of sharing the link</p>sulochanosho commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e88426115970d2011-05-05T16:03:39Z2011-05-05T19:05:42Zsulochanoshohttp://sulochanosho.wordpress.comA varied and candid exchange of lines of views on UG there on this site. Thanks.<p>A varied and candid exchange of lines of views on UG there on this site. Thanks.</p>barking buddha commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8820e029970d2011-04-28T14:11:02Z2011-04-28T17:19:33Zbarking buddhaI understand, you may be knowledgeable person but there are people whom UG affected directly rather than through Internet. For...<p>I understand, you may be knowledgeable person but there are people whom UG affected directly rather than through Internet. For what he has did to me, he does not need to be popular. I never read any blogs or articles to non-understand UG.</p>
<p>No Organization would spring out of UG's words. If it does, then you know what trouble one may fall into. No one can apply it either in life. One may bring those words to the surface once in a while to see how an Individual's behavior affects the totality. But if one wants to Organize UG's words in ones own Individual memory, then that's the tragedy of the Individual.<br />
The memory will run out of charge soon ): </p>
<p>I see that you are running to save the living systems but they are not going to listen to all that. One thing I can do is to lead a simple life without complications that thought constructs. .i.e to think sanely. That's all I can do and this I can do vigorously. I can lead a luxurious life in that sense.</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2015431f5f871970c2011-04-26T16:23:55Z2011-04-26T17:33:44ZMike WilliamsHi Barking Buddha, (grin) U. G. Krishnamurti was almost unknown until some websites like mine popularized him. Same with Faquir...<p>Hi Barking Buddha,<br />
(grin)</p>
<p>U. G. Krishnamurti was almost unknown until<br />
some websites like mine popularized him.<br />
Same with Faquir Chand. It is strange how<br />
the cream rises to the top.<br />
Same happenned to Nietzshe.</p>
<p>I find myself in a world most people<br />
don't even know exists. A few tears ago<br />
I spent most my tme blogging about<br />
the comming real estate collaspe.<br />
getting editors around the country<br />
to warn people and start printing more<br />
articles.</p>
<p>Even Bernanke rebuked us saying the U.S.<br />
has never had a RE crash over the entire country.</p>
<p>No one belived us.</p>
<p>Now I am in the same situation.</p>
<p>Blogging about the coming U. S. Dollar<br />
collaspe. But, this one is different.</p>
<p>The U. S. Dollar has already collasped.</p>
<p>ALREADY COLLASPED.</p>
<p>How could people not know ?</p>
<p>Well, the wealthy do. Commodity<br />
prices have doubled. Silver and gold<br />
also to the moon. From lead, to copper,to sugar,etc.</p>
<p>The rich are dumping fiat currencies.</p>
<p>The U.S. debt is now 100 Trillion dollars<br />
with Social Security and Medicare.</p>
<p>Bernanke now admits the Federal Reserve<br />
printed 20 trillion dollars during the stock crash to bail out other nations.</p>
<p>The USA must abolish the Federal Reserve<br />
if it is to survive.</p>
<p>I found myself emailing my friend<br />
this morning my stock test account<br />
to exit all U. S. Dollars..</p>
<p>Here is my email to Charlie,</p>
<p><br />
I have spent months investigating the budget crisis<br />
and the U. S. Dollar. I am quite sure the dollar<br />
will loose half its value or more in the next 5 years.<br />
It may collaspe and the Euro behind it. The rich are<br />
running to hard assets.<br />
<br />
Below are baskets of hard currencies locally denominated<br />
with good country debt. ELD pays 5.7%, distributes monthly<br />
an amount 4%, or more, at 17 cents to 35 cents monthly.<br />
<br />
CEW is embeded at 3.3% a year and asset value will double<br />
over 10 year period. </p>
<p>EUO is the hedge offset for both limiting<br />
a 10 year drawdown to 5%.<br />
<br />
CEW and ELD compare to ICPHX, a mutual fund running<br />
over 10 years, which doubled with div's included.<br />
Overlay charts to see. ICPHX had max 12% drawdown over 10 years.<br />
ELD and CEW will do better and are copycats of ICPHX, but with low fees as ETF's.<br />
<br />
XSB.TSX is a canadian ETF I am trying to get<br />
the US equivalent stock symbol for.<br />
Holds 2.5 year maturity Canadian bonds at 2.5% a year, mthly div,<br />
but this will rise. Denominated in Canadian dollar.<br />
<br />
These are all large cap funds with good volume.<br />
<br />
</p>
<p>CEW 600 23.35 0.00 14,010.00 0.00 <br />
ELD 1600 53.39 +0.09 85,424.00 +144.00 <br />
EUO 700 16.65 -0.148 11,656.12 -103.88 </p>
<p> <br />
Total Mkt Value: $111,090.12 Total Mkt Chg ($): +40.12 <br />
</p>barking buddha commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e201538e1dafbb970b2011-04-25T17:05:29Z2011-04-25T20:15:52Zbarking buddhaDavid Quinn critic don't seem to make (sense??) "As soon as UG dies, whatever wisdom he possesses will also die....<p>David Quinn critic don't seem to make (sense??)</p>
<p>"As soon as UG dies, whatever wisdom he possesses will also die. All that will be left will be a sorry bunch of third-rate individuals fashioning a religious cult out of his name."</p>
<p>There is no organization, no religious cult that follows him as of I know. Even if it is there,it is ineffective and will not succeed in making a holy transaction.</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e862a9bda970d2011-02-19T01:10:42Z2011-02-19T04:40:37ZMike WilliamsHi David, Since I don't believe we leave the body, nor project consciousness, I don't believe in astral projection. Everything...<p>Hi David,</p>
<p>Since I don't believe we leave the body,<br />
nor project consciousness, I don't<br />
believe in astral projection.</p>
<p>Everything is happenning in our heads.</p>
<p>80% of people tested in a sound proof<br />
room reported in my book heard various inner sounds. Even rats hear them.</p>
<p>But, yes I believe suppressed sexual<br />
energy very much causes hallucination.</p>
<p>That's why women do better than men<br />
at kundalini yoga.</p>
<p>The Sikhs believe God comes to them<br />
in meditation. Sort of a different<br />
twist from Radhasoami people leaving<br />
to travel the inner planes to God.</p>
<p>This is an enigma I can't quite figure.<br />
Because they talk of the inner planes also.<br />
Unless they realize they never leave the brain somehow ????</p>
<p>Try drinking strong coffee and going back<br />
to sleep again. This will cause you to<br />
be conscious in sleep.</p>
<p>Strange dreams may occur, but very<br />
lucid.</p>David commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e5f4d88e3970c2011-02-18T15:56:36Z2011-02-18T22:06:59ZDavidHi Mike, Thanks for clearing that up. So you are saying that "kundalini" is an orgasm due to repression of...<p>Hi Mike,</p>
<p>Thanks for clearing that up. So you are saying that "kundalini" is an orgasm due to repression of ejaculation.</p>
<p>By Tantric technique i take it you mean sidhasana pose, blocking the perinuem etc etc</p>
<p>What about astral projection? There is a reason people wake before dawn to meditate - to enter REM consciously. I am sure this has a lot of hallucinogenic potential, especially for the OBE. </p>
<p>Also, are you saying that suppressing sex creates the tinnitus and the inner lights?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p><br />
By the way, you do know that Sikhs rise before dawn and meditate and that they don't repress sex? Presumably their meditations are uneffected by the REM "morning wood" LOL</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e5f4d5031970c2011-02-18T15:13:16Z2011-02-18T22:06:59ZMike WilliamsDear David If kundalini does not exist, it cannot be run up and down the spine. It is only theory...<p>Dear David<br />
If kundalini does not exist,<br />
it cannot be run up and down<br />
the spine.</p>
<p>It is only theory that there<br />
is kundalini which runs<br />
up and down the spine.</p>
<p>What happens is sexually repressed<br />
energy affects the brain. They<br />
call this Ojas and similar shaktipat.</p>
<p>That's why tantric technique is needed.</p>David commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e5f491d23970c2011-02-17T21:23:49Z2011-02-18T02:16:56ZDavidOk Mike, i think i am getting nowhere with you. I have asked you 3 times already what you mean...<p>Ok Mike, i think i am getting nowhere with you. I have asked you 3 times already what you mean by running kundalini up and down the spine and you have not given any real answer.</p>
<p>I am beginning to think you are only being honest by saying you are schizophrenic, since your practices made you that way, according to you.</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e86232e66970d2011-02-17T19:04:29Z2011-02-17T19:46:34ZMike WilliamsHi David and Robert, Yes, I have had so many types of experiences as to be remarkable. But, they are...<p>Hi David and Robert,</p>
<p>Yes, I have had so many types of<br />
experiences as to be remarkable.</p>
<p>But, they are all produced in the <br />
brain and are physical, I am convinced.</p>
<p>Having practiced so many yogas<br />
one sees everything.</p>
<p>Experiences do not produce<br />
enlightenment. So, if you<br />
reach sach kand you are no<br />
closer to the goal.</p>
<p>When I say black magic, I<br />
mean tantric yoga. A method of<br />
saving sexual energy, which is<br />
the key.</p>
<p>Kundalini, so called by theory,<br />
is supposed to move up the ida and <br />
pingala and enliven the chakras.</p>
<p>These chakras then produce sound<br />
and light accordingly.</p>
<p>All this is a waste of time,<br />
even if successful.</p>
<p>The problem is there is no self<br />
that can outlast the body.</p>
<p>Even the temporal self is a delusion.</p>David commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e862281e5970d2011-02-17T16:24:57Z2011-02-17T17:05:14ZDavidMike, You practiced black magic - what for? And do you think that works? About chastity and kundalini - how...<p>Mike,</p>
<p>You practiced black magic - what for? And do you think that works?</p>
<p>About chastity and kundalini - how can chastity enable you to move currents up and down the spine? What nerves, tissues etc of the body are involved?</p>Robert Searle commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20147e2a1d222970b2011-02-17T11:25:20Z2011-02-17T17:05:14ZRobert SearleA Question to "Mike Williams".... Surely with all experience with Kundalini gurus, and their practices you must have had quite...<p>A Question to "Mike Williams"....</p>
<p>Surely with all experience with Kundalini gurus, and their practices you must have had quite a number of inner experiences, or "illusions"?</p>Robert Searle commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e5f46b0ce970c2011-02-17T11:17:15Z2011-02-17T17:05:14ZRobert Searle"Mike Williams" Now, we can see where you are coming from more clearly than ever before! I also remember back...<p>"Mike Williams"</p>
<p>Now, we can see where you are coming from more clearly than ever before!</p>
<p>I also remember back in 1977 that I found some data that raised doubts about how authentic Woodroffes book on the Serpent Power was...</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e5f445bfe970c2011-02-17T00:42:04Z2011-02-17T04:10:47ZMike WilliamsHi David and Robert, "Swami Chidananda" was incorrect. Read U. G. Krishnamuti whom had the full so called kundalini experience....<p>Hi David and Robert,</p>
<p><br />
"Swami Chidananda" was incorrect. Read U. G. Krishnamuti whom had the full so called<br />
kundalini experience. He denied it existed,<br />
but that it was was totally physical in nature unlike what the Gurus have told us.</p>
<p>I am a forth degree surat shabda initiate,<br />
which Radhasoami people don't even know about. I have been initiated by so many<br />
kundalini masters I can't remember half their names. Practised black magic and<br />
conversion to the hilt.</p>
<p>But, people won't believe me, so I refer<br />
to U. G. Krishnamurti. It is all physical.<br />
Experiences do happen when sexual energy<br />
is suppressed to the max, using techniques Radhasoami is unfamaliar with, or their Gurus won't tell, at least the old ones.</p>
<p>That's why Radhasoami people rarely get<br />
to first base and it is a religion.</p>
<p>Hi Robert,<br />
It is actually the transformed Ojas enegry from chastity that is run up and down the spine creating the pathway for the so called kundalini to make its move.</p>
<p>But, when successful, one will only become<br />
a self manufactured schizophhrenic like Kirpal Singh.</p>
<p>Radhasoami makes people nuts. They believe they see the Master inside (God), or are God, or have taversed the so called inner planes.</p>
<p>No inner planes exist and no God,<br />
see Faquir Chand.</p>
<p>An experience like kundalini exists, but it has nothing to do with kundalini at all,<br />
or God.</p>
<p>It is all delusional.</p>
<p>The only real experience is the realization of no self.</p>
<p>Enlightenment.</p>
<p>Radhasoami Gurus are NOT enlightened.</p>
<p>They simply tell you how to mess up your mind so you become delusional.</p>
<p>Salig Ram was delusional and he invented the Radhasoami Faith and believed he was God.</p>
<p>Radhasoami people rarely achieve anything.</p>
<p>They don't even have a remote clue how complex surat shabda yoga is.</p>
<p>The jnani is the highest according to Indian tradition.</p>
<p>Read The Serpent Power by Sir John Woodruffe.</p>
<p>There is only one enlightenement.</p>
<p>Radhasoami people will never find it.</p>
<p>They are too far gone and beyond help.</p>David commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e5f40d321970c2011-02-16T10:22:03Z2011-02-16T16:52:35ZDavidHow does kundalini cause the sounds? Again, i don't understand what you mean by running the kundalini up and down...<p>How does kundalini cause the sounds?</p>
<p>Again, i don't understand what you mean by running the kundalini up and down the spine. </p>
<p>This isn't very clear.</p>Robert Searle commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e5f40909b970c2011-02-16T09:06:37Z2011-02-16T16:52:35ZRobert SearleAs far as I understand it certain gurus at initiation can actually activate the movement of kundalini up and down...<p>As far as I understand it certain gurus at initiation can actually activate the movement of kundalini up and down the spine. The new disciple becomes aware of it unlike before. However, the experience disappears if the appropriate meditative methods are not used.</p>
<p>Again, as I understand it the aim of "exercising" the Kundalini up, and down is to help increase its power, and activity until the true, and "ultimate" superconcious experience is had. When I interviewed Swami Chidananda back in 1989 he said I was exactly right.</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e8618c9d3970d2011-02-15T21:51:52Z2011-02-16T05:04:39ZMike Williams"But you said you take the kundalini energy up and down the spine" quote David I do not believe kundalini...<p>"But you said you take the kundalini energy up and down the spine"<br />
quote David</p>
<p>I do not believe kundalini exists.<br />
(Which is the basis of the sound current)</p>
<p>Only glands, hormones, etc. The inner sounds<br />
are actually caused by tinitus and other<br />
factors, recently discovered by some<br />
British scientists.</p>
<p>Everything is physical. Yoganada and other surat shabda groups run the kundalini up and down the spine before sitting for<br />
the sound practice.</p>
<p>Yes, Charan said Radhasoami is not<br />
a religion, but Salig Ram called it<br />
a faith and he invented Radhasomi Faith.</p>
<p>I took the 52 week Yogananda course to<br />
prep for initiation with SRF, but was<br />
initiated by other gurus. I do not<br />
consider SRF has any real gurus.</p>
<p>Om technique was also in courses of SRF.</p>David commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20147e297cc6a970b2011-02-15T16:31:56Z2011-02-15T17:47:17ZDavidMike, I have read your book and website. You post a lot of decent info about the inner sounds and...<p>Mike,</p>
<p>I have read your book and website. You post a lot of decent info about the inner sounds and lights, the God helmet etc. </p>
<p>But you said you take the kundalini energy up and down the spine. What does this mean in terms of physicality? I don't get it.</p>
<p>Also, would you say that waking slightly early in the morning and meditating has the most noted effect? It is a REM period, astral projectors use this period exclusively, and i have read that sounds occur due to oscilations in the inner ear bones. I suspect people take this to be the OM sound?</p>
<p>By the way, Charan Singh said that Radha Soami was nothing to do with religion.</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e5f3b8bf2970c2011-02-15T11:18:39Z2011-02-15T17:47:17ZMike Williams"By taking that away he essentially leaves them supportless, confused and miserable." quote CCS Hi Mohan and CCS, CCS, your...<p>"By taking that away he essentially leaves them supportless, confused and miserable."<br />
quote CCS</p>
<p>Hi Mohan and CCS,</p>
<p><br />
CCS, your point is very well taken. In fact when I wrote my book I had to ask myself this question, I am sure Brian asked himself the same question and Faquir Chand.</p>
<p>Should we let people be happily deceived with their religion ?</p>
<p>I came to the consclusion religion hurts people far more than it helps.</p>
<p>Religion seperates and devides. We are<br />
a slave to a fake master whom takes our money. It can destroy famalies.</p>
<p>Jiddo Krishnamuti came to this conclusion also.</p>
<p><a href="http://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/index.html</a></p>CCS commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e860e694d970d2011-02-14T01:19:15Z2011-02-14T18:37:47ZCCSMohan, considering that you have met UG in person perhaps you can answer this question. What about UG's teachings (or...<p>Mohan, considering that you have met UG in person perhaps you can answer this question. What about UG's teachings (or the lack thereof!) keeps people going back to him? Is it the fact that he has ripped them off every belief, hope or faith they've ever had and they have nowhere else to go. Somewhat like the abused dog that keeps returning to its abusive master?</p>V.Mohan from Bangalore commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e2014e5f260f32970c2011-02-11T10:19:07Z2011-02-11T18:41:55ZV.Mohan from BangaloreI like very much the comments made on U.G. in this web site. I have meet U.G.personally many times in...<p>I like very much the comments made on U.G. in this web site. I have meet U.G.personally many times in my life. If any one is interested you can contact me. Thank you all. V.Mohan from Bangalore</p>CCS commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20148c85d8d97970c2011-02-05T18:44:31Z2011-02-05T18:56:49ZCCSIf indeed there is a 'stone cold genius' in UG, I for one have missed it entirely. Of course "genius"...<p>If indeed there is a 'stone cold genius' in UG, I for one have missed it entirely. Of course "genius" itself is an attribute of the mind so as per UG it would be meaningless to call him that. </p>
<p>UG Krishnamurti's 'teachings' seem to be a cross between nihilism and advaita philosophy - nothing new or radical. Perhaps he unique here in the west, in India you can see hundreds like him, chattering meaninglessly. They were just not fortunate enough to find a pedestal. And for someone who so overtly opposes religion or any form of spirituality he seems most obsessed with it. <br />
<br />
It annoys me when he treats anyone with a spiritual quest with such callous disdain while exalting drug addicts and others steeped in materialsim. If there is nothing more to our existence than what is physical, tangible and right in front of us how does it matter whether you are good or bad or a drug addict or religous? Many people hold on to their religious or spritual beliefs as crutches and it works for them. By taking that away he essentially leaves them supportless, confused and miserable. Why not let the spiritual addicts hold on to their addiction just like drug addicts hold on to theirs. As per UG all of life is meaningless anyway, then why not live it blissfully, albeit ignorantly?</p>
<p>And on a minor note I don't like his rude, erratic, condescending manner. All those who criticize his demeaning, arrogant manner are judged as superficial people that only see the man and miss his teaching. Nonsense! Even if there is truth in UG's (non) teachings there is no excuse for rude, insulting behavior. The truth will be no less veridical if it is conveyed in a more eloquent, gentler manner.</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20147e22b2be4970b2011-01-31T21:49:48Z2011-01-31T23:23:28ZMike Williamshttp://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/index.html"The whole world present and past is wrong UG is the only one right, come on now!" quote CCS That's...<p>"The whole world present and past is wrong UG is the only one right, come on now!"<br />
quote CCS</p>
<p>That's correct. U. G. was a stone cold genius. Even Einstein and Planck couldn't get right what U. G. Krishnamurti got right.</p>CCS commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20147e2233f7f970b2011-01-30T23:39:55Z2011-01-31T00:49:14ZCCSNever met UG- I accidentally came across his (non)teachings on the web. I disagree on many counts. 1. His claims...<p>Never met UG- I accidentally came across his (non)teachings on the web. I disagree on many counts. <br />
1. His claims such as "there is no such thing as a blue sky" or "there is no such thing as a table' seem non-sensical and an utter waste of time to me. Irrespective of whether you call the sky blue it will lead to a physiological sensation. We just give it the label "blue" which makes it efficient. Anyone who has studied cognitive psychology knows that there is no such thing as absolute reality. There is nothing unique here about UG's teachings.<br />
2. His utter disdain for gurus and tradition is understandable to an extent. However, not all gurus have an agenda. I know many in India that are full of compassion and kindness and have not made a dime for their time or teachings. <br />
3. By claiming that he rejects anything that comes from human thought (which is basically everything)he seems to imply that every intellectual, every saint, every academic has it wrong except him. The whole world present and past is wrong UG is the only one right, come on now!</p>David commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20148c7ebf193970c2011-01-23T21:25:24Z2011-01-24T02:58:00ZDavidIt doesn't matter what meditation you do so long as the things you think about most of the time are...<p>It doesn't matter what meditation you do so long as the things you think about most of the time are given a distraction when you are relaxing into a reverie, since these type of situations bring forth a concomitant experience of an intuitive nature. Goenka meditations are no more profound than any relaxive and concentration exercise suited to any individual. It is exactly the same thing as self hypnosis.</p>Todd commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20147e1e1575c970b2011-01-23T17:00:39Z2011-01-23T18:13:39ZToddHi Mike, honestly, so far, the most significant meditation experience I've ever had was with S.N. Goenka....so maybe he's enlightened...<p>Hi Mike, honestly, so far, the most significant meditation experience I've ever had was with S.N. Goenka....so maybe he's enlightened...<br />
</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20148c7e6ca1e970c2011-01-23T05:48:00Z2011-01-23T16:18:24ZMike Williamshttp://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/index.htmlHi Todd, The end result of kundalini surat shabda is the sound at radhasoami and the light of a trillion...<p>Hi Todd,</p>
<p>The end result of kundalini surat shabda<br />
is the sound at radhasoami and the light<br />
of a trillion suns. </p>
<p>It appears we start down the road of a journey without sign posts, not realizing<br />
that the inner planes don't actually exist<br />
as real places.</p>
<p>Even if one makes it to radhasoami Pad,<br />
they still are not enlightened.</p>
<p>In my journeys, I have never met an<br />
enlightened surat shabda yoga master.</p>
<p>I have seen no enlightened experiential<br />
masters except for Ram Chandra, whom was a pranahuti master.</p>
<p>Enlightenment is not the end product<br />
of a series of higher inner experiences.</p>
<p>So a master of surat shabda yoga is as far away from enlightenment as his disciples.</p>
<p>Faquir Chand used to wonder if he had not "spun a web."</p>
<p>When he attained the high regions he asked<br />
himself who he is.</p>
<p>That question can be asked at the beginning<br />
of the journey.</p>
<p>In fact, it may stop a person<br />
from taking any journey at all.</p>Todd commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20148c7e636cf970c2011-01-23T04:00:04Z2011-01-23T04:14:18ZToddMike, I was also initiated by Paramahamsa Hariharananda Giri, and by Agam Prasad Mathur in Agra,but in my own experience,...<p>Mike, I was also initiated by Paramahamsa Hariharananda Giri, and by Agam Prasad Mathur in Agra,but in my own experience, I still find the Simran and Bhajan of RSSB to be most effective....</p>
<p>provided I put in the hours.....that seems to be the crucial point</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20148c7e52523970c2011-01-23T00:38:06Z2011-01-23T04:14:18ZMike Williamshttp://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/index.htmlHi David, No I don't believe in eternal recurrance. Yes, kundalini is all physical glands, hormones, etc. Shakti energy does...<p>Hi David,<br />
No I don't believe in eternal recurrance.</p>
<p>Yes, kundalini is all physical glands, hormones, etc.</p>
<p>Shakti energy does not exist, just what science has found.</p>
<p>Daya Mata broke the lineage and was unathorised.</p>
<p>Yogananda's third eye description is like a hundred I have heard. Seems everyone sees<br />
something different.</p>Robert Searle commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20148c7e450ec970c2011-01-22T22:00:04Z2011-01-23T04:14:18ZRobert SearleA repeated question to "Mike Williams" which David has raised. Have you experienced energies, and "visions" in your yoga experiences?...<p><br />
A repeated question to "Mike Williams" which David has raised.</p>
<p>Have you experienced energies, and "visions" in your yoga experiences? If you have then perhaps you are a bit you know what....!!!???</p>
<p>I wonder if we will get an intelligible answer. </p>
<p>It is odd that someone who thinks inner yoga experiences are"crazy", and can make one "crazy" should have been involved in it the first place! MW has arguably shot himself in the foot!</p>
<p>Moreover, he does not seem to have carefully examined, or possibly read the book Heaven on Earth by Daryai Lal Kapoor. This topic was raised earlier on....hhm...</p>David commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20148c7e3905c970c2011-01-22T19:42:01Z2011-01-22T20:56:14ZDavidYOu don't seem to be coherent enough, Mike. You have talked about initiation conferring some kind of psychic supernatural benefit...<p>YOu don't seem to be coherent enough, Mike. You have talked about initiation conferring some kind of psychic supernatural benefit and how Daya Mata broke the lineage. Daya Mata didn't break the lineage, the president before her was Rajasi and he broke the lineage. So you are saying that some kind of shakti energy exists, but you also claim that kundalini is merely physical nerves and glands etc. </p>
<p>You also didn't comment on deja vu in terms of whether it is a real phenomenon. Nor did you comment on Yogananda's third eye description.</p>
<p>Sorry if this sounds intimidating, but i generally ask specific questions and your answers are rather vague.</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20148c7e3642d970c2011-01-22T19:08:21Z2011-01-22T20:56:14ZMike Williamshttp://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/index.htmlOjas is the distalation of energy from semen, the power that raises one according to theory. Mutakananda used the blue...<p>Ojas is the distalation of energy<br />
from semen, the power that raises one according to theory.</p>
<p>Mutakananda used the blue pearl.</p>
<p>Hariharananda was authorized in writtng to initiate.</p>
<p>He was a 7th degree master.</p>
<p>Yogananda's group had a fake lineage<br />
when the woman came in.</p>David commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20148c7e30b93970c2011-01-22T18:08:21Z2011-01-22T18:28:08ZDavidHI again Mike, Ojas is not semen it is just "energy" that has been transformed from semen. So when you...<p>HI again Mike,</p>
<p>Ojas is not semen it is just "energy" that has been transformed from semen. So when you say you move energy up and down the spine i don't know what you mean. When the semen is stopped from going out it goes inwards and upwards, into the bladder etc. Unless you mean to say that it goes into the cerebro spinal fluid?</p>
<p>My good friend says that kundalini is more like a thin thread in the middle and there are 2 other currents on either side of it that don't criss cross like the figure 8 but have a more linear movement. She also said that she used to see a blue circular light, which others may have called the "blue pearl". Does this make sense to you? </p>
<p>And what of Yogananda's description that the third eye is a golden ring around a blue field with a silver star in the centre?</p>
<p>Hariharananda is not esteemed in the general kriya circles. He claimed he was initiated by Sri Yukteswar but this is dubious.</p>
<p>So if kundalini makes people schizophrenic, are you schizophrenic?</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20147e1d38f68970b2011-01-21T22:10:50Z2011-01-21T22:29:13ZMike Williamshttp://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/index.htmlHi David, Semen conservered converts to Ojas. Movement up and down spine, before sitting for surat shaba, is moving kundalini...<p>Hi David,<br />
Semen conservered converts to Ojas.</p>
<p>Movement up and down spine, before<br />
sitting for surat shaba, is moving kundalini<br />
up and down spine to get it active.</p>
<p>Radhasoami does not do that first.</p>
<p>Agree with hallucinations most the time.</p>
<p>I was initiated by Hariharinanda into<br />
Yogananda surat shabda. He is dead now.</p>
<p>But, advanced students produce self induced<br />
schizophrenia.</p>
<p>That's why a good guru is always nuts. (grin)</p>
<p>Nietzsche was atheist, but believed in eternal recurrance.</p>
<p>So, sometimes the atheist does believe in an afterlife for one reason or another.</p>
<p>In Nietzshe's case, deja vu would make complete sense, because he believed you<br />
come back as you just were in this life. But, didn't say when.</p>
<p>Gurdjieff Ouspensky Group also believes<br />
in eternal recurrance, with the twist you improve the same life each time.</p>
<p>They don't explain what happens to a baby<br />
that dies.</p>
<p>That's for your interesting post.<br />
</p>David commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20147e1cfec04970b2011-01-21T13:52:04Z2011-01-21T15:48:36ZDavidMike, Are you saying that celibacy causes lights and sounds to be seen? My understanding, which i have derived from...<p>Mike,</p>
<p>Are you saying that celibacy causes lights and sounds to be seen? </p>
<p>My understanding, which i have derived from various sources, is that conserving the semen and slowing down the breathing causes some kind of suction of the semen inwards, which somehow awakens the spinal nerves. Would that be correct?</p>
<p>I am familiar with Yogananada's teachings quite extensively but your explanation about sending the energy up and down the spine is something new to me. What energy are you talking about?</p>
<p>As someone who was diagnosed with schizophrenia a long time ago, before i was even aware of meditation and yoga, i can say that i never heard sounds or saw lights. I was an avid masturbator. I never heard voices speaking to me but i did have negative thoughts that sometimes seemed to intrude into my mind in a way that felt like it wasn't coming from me. But since i have meditated these kind of thoughts occur in the hypnagogic state anyway.</p>
<p>I agree with you that kundalini is physical. But there are two, maybe three things that exist which i find really hard to explain - the accuracy of vedic astrology and deja vu. I believe it is possible to somehow pick up body language from others and intuitively "read" their history and possible future with some kind of tie in with deja vu. If i can say deja vu is "God" then i believe in God. But God to me as classically thought of is something that nobody knows or can know.</p>
<p>As to OBEs or astral projection i believe these are very similar to lucid dreams, the difference being that they are more akin to hypnagogic hallucinations. It seems obvious that if you wake early and enter meditation the body will fall asleep but the mind will remain aware - the state of fatigue of the body causes most of the sensory nerves to retire inside and the REM state causes hallucinations. But it is also a form of self-hypnosis, in that you can decided on what to think about in this state - so if you think about God or Jesus or Krishna, you will experience it.</p>Robert Searle commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20147e1cfd85b970b2011-01-21T13:40:10Z2011-01-21T15:48:36ZRobert SearleCORRECTION. I recall a simple sketch profile of someones faith by Sam Busa in a RSSB magazine. ...should read as...<p>CORRECTION.</p>
<p>I recall a simple sketch profile of someones faith by Sam Busa in a RSSB magazine.</p>
<p>...should read as follows</p>
<p>I recall a simple sketch profile of someones face by Sam Busa in a RSSB magazine.</p>Robert Searle commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20148c7d8e69e970c2011-01-21T13:36:06Z2011-01-21T15:48:36ZRobert Searle"Mike Williams"(!) Sant mat is self induced schizophrenia literally. Hearing sounds and sights that don't exist. Except for tinitus. Many...<p>"Mike Williams"(!)</p>
<p>Sant mat is self induced schizophrenia literally. Hearing sounds and sights that don't exist. Except for tinitus.</p>
<p>Many people have had visions but that does not have to mean that they are all schizophrenic, or need psychiatric help.....</p>
<p>However, such things may well be projections of the imagination, or alternatively in rare cases possible glimpses of "higher dimensions."</p>Robert Searle commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20147e1ce2036970b2011-01-21T09:07:51Z2011-01-21T15:48:36ZRobert Searle"Mike Williams," I assume you are referring to my blog article on Religare, and Gurinder which has caused you to...<p><br />
"Mike Williams," </p>
<p>I assume you are referring to my blog article on Religare, and Gurinder which has caused you to make a ad hominen attack on me. I know the reasoning in it especially in connection with the Chand interpretation may seem "outrageous". BUT IT STILL HAS ITS OWN KIND OF LOGIC WHICH MAY HOLD WITH THE ACTUAL TRUTH.</p>
<p><br />
</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20147e1c88fb4970b2011-01-20T19:33:08Z2011-01-21T04:15:47ZMike Williamshttp://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/index.htmlHi Dogribb, You are lucky to have escaped. Very lucky. Hi David, Technically the kundalini can be raised in various...<p>Hi Dogribb,<br />
You are lucky to have escaped.<br />
Very lucky.</p>
<p>Hi David,</p>
<p>Technically the kundalini can be raised<br />
in various ways. In sant mat chastity<br />
is used to produce Ojas.</p>
<p>Since few people have chastity, few<br />
people get anywhere with sant mat.<br />
Some people have natural blockage.<br />
Women do better than men.</p>
<p>For example, when I was initiated by a Yogananda Guru, I was taught to mentally<br />
take the energy up the spine, then<br />
back down, many times before beginning<br />
sound practice in the posture.</p>
<p>I have been initiated by several kundalini masters. Few people get any experience.</p>
<p>It is interesting there is a drug<br />
called Prozac which helps people<br />
with psychosis, by blocking the sexual<br />
energy.</p>
<p>Tantric methods are needed to succeed<br />
in kundalini practice. When you have sex, but don't. In a man one can block the semen from coming out in orgasm.</p>
<p>Sant mat does not teach the method.</p>
<p>Sant mat is self induced schizophrenia literally. Hearing sounds and sights that don't exist. Except for tinitus.</p>
<p>There is actually no<br />
such thing as kundalini.</p>
<p>It's hormones and glands, etc.<br />
All physical.</p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20147e1c7313b970b2011-01-20T16:17:26Z2011-01-20T17:11:34ZMike Williamshttp://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/index.htmlHi Robert, I am going to be polite. I believe you should seek the help of a professional. I wish...<p>Hi Robert,<br />
I am going to be polite.</p>
<p>I believe you should seek the help of a professional.</p>
<p>I wish you the best of luck in life.</p>Robert Searle commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20148c7cde2f4970c2011-01-20T09:38:51Z2011-01-20T17:11:34ZRobert Searle"Mike Williams," I was interested in the following. For example when I was initiated by Prof. Dr. Agam Mathur, Guru...<p><br />
"Mike Williams,"</p>
<p>I was interested in the following.</p>
<p>For example when I was initiated by Prof. Dr. Agam Mathur, Guru at Peepal Mundi, great<br />
grandson of Salig Ram, he gave me the higher<br />
chakras on the head, with discriptions of sounds and sights.</p>
<p>I recall a simple sketch profile of someones faith by Sam Busa in a RSSB magazine. It gave the five centres in ascending order from the "Third Eye" until it reach the crown of the head which was ofcourse Sach Khand.</p>
<p>I have also come across Pranahuti. I believe it is also referred to as Sahaj Yoga, but to say that it is the highest path is absurd BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IS THE HIGHEST PATH. It could be anything.....and not necessarily Shabd Yoga, or Pranahuti,or anything else ofcourse!</p>Robert Searle commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20148c7cdce2b970c2011-01-20T09:24:12Z2011-01-20T17:11:34ZRobert Searle"Mike Williams" No, I do not recommend any specific guru as you seem to suggest...save for one Sant Harjit Singh....<p>"Mike Williams"</p>
<p>No, I do not recommend any specific guru as you seem to suggest...save for one Sant Harjit Singh. I take my inspiration mainly from the "Teachings" of Faqir Chand who I feel comes close to the Truth. </p>
<p>However, I would like to find a Sant Satguru who may have a credible outer life if possible. So, far this is a very "difficult" matter...and indeed, it may not necessarily matter if we believe in Faqir Chand, and indeed, Sawan Singh whose claimed comment appears on my blog. You must have seen it as a link was published here somewhere...<br />
</p>Dogribb commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20148c7cc4a1b970c2011-01-20T04:50:42Z2011-01-20T17:11:34ZDogribbJiddu and then UG were instrumental in my post RSSB debriefing.Both in construction and deconstructing the whole Guru business and...<p>Jiddu and then UG were instrumental in my post RSSB debriefing.Both in construction and deconstructing the whole Guru business and looking at inquiry from the inquirer </p>Mike Williams commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20147e1c150d5970b2011-01-19T23:47:34Z2011-01-20T03:53:09ZMike Williamshttp://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/index.htmlHi Trey, You are right about Ramana Maharshi and I have quoted his pranahuti statements in the past. I was...<p>Hi Trey,<br />
You are right about Ramana Maharshi and I have quoted his pranahuti statements in the past. I was initiated by Ram Chandra<br />
into pranahuti in 1982. There<br />
are no pranahuti masters alive<br />
that I am aware of.</p>
<p>To Robert,<br />
I believe you may be too far gone<br />
for me to help.<br />
When you knowingly endorse a fake<br />
master such as Kirpal, you become<br />
involved in the scam.</p>
<p>Again, knowingly, you do not fool anyone.</p>
<p>If you sleep in a barn, you will smell<br />
like a horse.</p>Trey commented on 'U.G. Krishnamurti -- intriguing, irritating, inspirational'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451c0aa69e20147e1bf67ed970b2011-01-19T19:23:06Z2011-01-19T20:09:44ZTrey"But, the highest chakra is in the chest, near the lower heart center. It is called the higher heart center....<p>"But, the highest chakra is in the chest, near the lower heart center. It is called the higher heart center. The kundalini moves through the highest head center and then curls back down to the Higher Heart Centre."<br />
--Mike Williams</p>
<p>This was also taught by other gurus/sages such as, perhaps most famously, Ramana Maharshi, but he did not teach an elaborate means of getting there via higher head centers and then back down.</p>