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January 02, 2009

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Sid, I'll echo tAo in my own fashion: You've been given an extensive opportunity to preach your dogma. Now it's time for you to either take part in discussions here with a genuinely open-minded attitude, posting less and listening more, or head to another part of the Internet with your defense of Sant Mat and Michael Martin.

Brian I did not bring up Michael Martin. This is all on Tao's head. I must have said Pir Zia somewhere and now he has brought MM up.


Tao said:

"You do not yet understand non-duality. Non-duality means, in a sense, that there is ONLY God. Whatever level of consciousness, is irrelevant."

-Yes God is everything and everything means God. You and me are parts of God. He contains everything that there is. Everything that there is is part of his One infinite being. Everything can be called God because it is within him and a part of him. Not separate.

Example: the human body is one no doubt. Everything on it is the human body. But it also has parts that consist of the whole. They are not separate from the whole human body but they are different parts. They are different but attached and one with the whole.

The arm and leg are different parts but one with the whole. When someone points the my leg or arm they might still say Sid not separate arm or leg from Sid.

The souls awareness of his body and another souls awareness of another body are two different physical bodies. But they are aware of parts of the whole still. Not parts separate from the whole. Those parts are still God. Like the arm is still Sid.

Everything is God because everything is just another part to his infinite body. But when zillions of souls for example are aware of only a physical body then those souls are having a dual experience instead of perceiving the totality of Gods being. Those zillions of physical bodies are just part of his whole being. If one of those souls were to become aware of the whole being then he would not be in duality. There would be no part of the whole he is aware of he would be aware of the whole part.


Tao said:

" The body is part of totality. And if everything really IS God (as you say that SM postulates), then there is no one existing apart or separate from God, who can or needs to merge "into God", and similarly, no separate God for anything or anyone to merge into."

-Again nothing is apart from God but he does have parts of himself. No parts of the human body are considered apart or separate from the human body.

No soul or souls experience things that are "apart" from God. It is just experiences of different parts that are within and make up the whole. If one person is looking at my toe they are still looking at Sid. It's a different part of me but it's not separate it's just another diverse part that makes the ONE whole.

A foot consists of parts as well. Just as God consists of parts. Just because he has parts doesn't mean they are separate from him. Just because feet have parts like toes doesn't mean they are separate from him.

Just because some physical bodies are just parts of the totality of God doesn't mean that they are apart. But when a soul is aware of that physical body alone then they are just aware of a part of the totality of God.

Those parts and every part and everything is always merged in Him. God has many different parts of his body. It's one body but the souls aren't aware of the whole body just some parts. It's their awareness that merges into being aware of all the parts.

Think of God as an entire human body. That is awareness of all of it. Souls may be only aware of cells of him. But if they were to become aware of the whole body including all cells and all things then they'd be aware of the whole. They are always "one" with God but one meaning just a part. All the parts of a bike are one with the bike but they are parts. When the soul is aware of the whole nothing has happened to the position of being "one" with God. They are always together.

Tao said:

"It is irrelevant what anyone says or "claims". It is simply all a matter of who actually has the goods, the genuine realization, the enlightened wisdom. Any common fool or joker can repeat words and dogma."

-Tao by all means anyone can say they did the sadhana or got the gaze. SKSJM could have made that up. But the fact that it was his reason for claiming to be a Master and starting his own Satsang is what made disciples have an easier time having faith in him.

We follow where are hearts go. The closest place we can go without using our hearts to find where the goods are is when the Master said that he got it through a gaze or sadhana. But all these factors can be lies. They may also teach the path and be false Masters. There is never real proof that a Master is a Master. There is only so much proof we can gather that is not proof that we find for ourselves in meditation.

Tao:

"There are no such rules. That is a false and mistaken presumption."

-Yes there are rules. God makes it so that we can realize him only one way. The rule of thumb is that you need a Sat Guru. That is the SM theory. SM theory says that the way back to him is one and people do try to alter it. But they can't. None come to the father except through the Sat Guru.

Tao:

" God doesn't "do" anything. Either God IS Everything, or else God is merely an illusory human idea."

-It's so easy to tell you that God and his parts are one. Sid and his arm are one. Sid can do things to his arm but his arm is still him. Sid can "do" things. God can "do" things. Sid is the part and the whole but in the instance of the whole the whole can do things no doubt. I can talk or walk or do anything. In reality the arm part has no control it is the whole that is the doer.

God is not illusionary human idea. He is the whole that moves the parts. Like the human body Sid is the whole that moves the parts:arms legs. The spirit in Sids arm is aware only of the arm but it is still Sid.

The spirit in a physical body aware only of the physical body but it is still God. It is God that controls the parts of himself. It's just that his body is limitless so it's hard/impossible to fully understand.

Tao:

"No-one is Guru. Every-one is Guru."

-Criteria: Done the sadhana or got the gaze. Also teaches SM. We then use our hearts to decide which guru to choose.

Yes we are all Gurus but I'm talking about choosing one. We try to choose one that we have faith has done the Sadhana or gotten the Gaze from a true Master who has also gotten the Gaze or Sadhana from another true Master and so on to the beginning of that lineage.

Tao:

"RSSB itself has even denounced him"

-Yes you can say that RSSB has denounced him because of the Rep that denounced him. But SGSJM refuses to comment as of now. Can't judge his reasons.

Tao:

" In Sant mat terminology, Anami Purush is a reference to the supreme Godhead, not the guru/master"


-I said the REAL FORM of the Master is Anami Purush. Not "the guru/master is Anami Purush."

Look at SGSJM. Are you stuck into believe that he is Anami Purush? You must think that I guess. He is a part of Anami Purush for sure. His real form when he meditates is Anami Purush for sure. His message he gives comes from what Anami Purush wants that message to be for sure. But he is just a part like the arm is a part of the whole body. His real form is Anami Purush when he meditates.

SO the Master within, in the end of Sant Mat, is found to be the Supreme Lord. That is the goal of Sant Mat. We see the Master at ascending stages and then at the last stage we see that the Master is the whole of the parts.

So when the Master comes from that WHOLE and comes to MM as a PART then it is assumed that the real form of the part that is speaking to him is the WHOLE or Anami Purush.

SO the guru/master is not anami purush but he manifested from there.


Tao said:

"No. That is mere word jugglery... which is quite typical of him."

-I'm sorry but according to SM the real form of the Master is Anami Purush. When Anami Purush wants to speak to a Saint he can do it through manifesting as a person in his meditation whose real form is Anami Purush.

Tao Said:

" More pseudo-spiritual mumbo-jumbo."

-I don't see anything that's pseudo-spiritual AT ALL. You can say that MM is a fraud that is what SM allows us to do. But to say that he has said anything outside of Sant Mat has not been proven yet. You can still say he's a fraud after he has fulfilled the criteria.

I mean he has fulfilled the criteria. He teaches it and was initiated by MCSJ. Now your heart says he's a fraud that's fine. I myself have the same trouble you do in believing in him. BUT I do understand he fits the CRITERIA.

You cannot prove him wrong on that friend.

Tao Said:

"No, that is nonsense. All beings, I reapeat, ALL beings are the "Sons of God"... and everything in the manifest universe is the voice of God."

-Tao I know what you're saying but you're deviating from SM theory. Sons of God is like saying Masters. And Masters are just those who've done the Sadhana.

Are you trying to say that everyone has done the Sadhana? We don't know who has but not everyone has.

God talks to everyone yes you're right. But The Saints talk to him through their Sadhana directly according to SM. This means they have talked to the inner Master that's all. The inner Master is Anami Purush in the highest region.

Tao I really do want to get out of here I don't want to be a "troll." But you are the one who brought up MM.

Give it up Sid. You are full of dogma. No one here is interested in or impressed by your impudent, insolent, impertinent preaching - your effrontery.

I did up MM because it is obvious that YOU were parroting and preaching MMs bullshit and dogma. My bringing up MM is not the problem. It is YOUR impudence and effrontery, and YOUR deluge of lengthy postings of repetitious preaching of dogma that IS the problem. So give it up Sid. Quit trying to find another another angle or another excuse to preach. You are a student at best, not a teacher. Go preach your crap somewhere else, you immature jerk.


I'm waiting for a reply instead of insults you jerk.

u r the most stupid persob on this world

1) Guru = God assertion.
Firstly, how are you defining God?
We all have a spark of divine potential within ourselves. Some have been able to realize more of that potential than others. I tend to look at Gurus, prophets and other spiritual teachers as those who have realized more of that divine spark than most. And are therefore able to teach us to do the same.
2) As for the karaoke, that just makes this particular guru appear more accessible and somewhat more modern than most.
3) Meditation = do nothing. Um, have you even read the spiritual primer? It is an easy read of a short inexpensive book. And it explains everything.
4) It is highly inappropriate to mock the guru. The only thing you have shown is your ignorance and disrespect.

akkhsune star, it was the guru, Gurinder Singh, who I heard telling his disciples that in meditation the goal is to do nothing. Maybe you should listen to the guru more and rely on books less.

As an initiate, I agree with Brian.

To akkhsune star:

You said:
"We all have a spark of divine potential within ourselves. Some have been able to realize more of that potential than others."

-- You assert: "some have been able to realize more of that potential than others"?? How do you know that?? Well, you don't know that. So thats your first mistake.

You also assert: "I tend to look at Gurus, prophets and other spiritual teachers as those who have realized more of that divine spark than most. And are therefore able to teach us to do the same."

-- Again, you are assuming that "Gurus, prophets and spiritual teachers" have "realized" something that others have not. Yet there is no evidence of that at all. All of these so-called "gurus, prophets and other spiritual teachers" are (or were) ordinary human beings. So this is merely your own personal belief and opinion. As long as you recognize that fact, then no problem. But if you are asserting that they (gurus, prophets and other spiritual teachers) are definitely special and superior and more "enlightened" than the rest of the humans in the world, then you cannot be taken seriously.

"As for the karaoke, that just makes this particular guru appear more accessible and somewhat more modern than most."

-- No it doesn't. It makes him seem pretentious and fake.

"have you even read the spiritual primer? It is an easy read of a short inexpensive book. And it explains everything."

-- There is nothing in that elementary level book that amounts to anything of any significance. Its just basic Santmat dogma. You sound as if some little pamphlet contains the answer to the spiritual search of the Ages? If that's what you (apparently) think, then you are light-years behind the discussions of this site and way out of your league. You should go familiarize yourself with this site a bit more, before making such ridiculous and uninformed suggestions.

"It is highly inappropriate to mock the guru. The only thing you have shown is your ignorance and disrespect."

-- Now you are really showing YOUR OWN "ignorance and disrespect". "Inappropriate" yo say? Well fyi, anyone can "mock the guru". The guru is no one special or holy. Just another individual who has placed himself out on the public stage. And if you can criticise Brian, then Brian can criticise the (your) guru. And so can I. I think your so-called guru is nothing more than the leader of a cult, and a phony. He has no spiritual power to effect anything. He is a light-weight as far as that goes. He is a joke, imo. And I can mock him as I please, and for you to try to deny that, shows that YOU are ignorant, and that YOU have no respect for the freedom and opinions of others.

So akkhsune star, I suggest that you come up with something more intelligent in the way of comments, or find some other blog to post your insipid religious guru-cult babble.

[ to my fellow churchless brethern: yes, I'm just periodically flexing my old uhh cantankerous muscles... gotta keep em in shape now and then. gotta use em or lose em, you know? :>) ]


god says that, one day in the world evey thing of world like leaf, trees, every human, bird, animals saya RADHA SOAMI

He also selected Nights in white satin, Only Love can break your heart,I will always love you,My Love(mcCartney),

Baba Ji makes it clear Darshan is not thinking "my sweet lord" Darshan is being totally still in mind and body and looking onepointedly at the face of the Master in total stillness . The result is that one's entire attention AUTOMATICALLY converges on the Master and begins to merge in His attention .To the extent that one suceeds one EXPERIENCES THAT HE IS GOD.

Also Baba Ji shows many miracles to those who OBEY the vows to meditate and abstain from Lust and hurting others feelings.These disiples would be amazed that someone could meet with him and find nothing above the normal.For example, Baba Ji often exhibits onmiscience revealing that he knows the most personal secrets of his disiples lives this shows he is omnipresent but He reveal this only to the disciples who obey and follow the vows or atleast do their level best and who blame themselves when they fail instaed of the Master. who therefore love him above all else to them He show many many miracles, infact they are a matter of routine after a while it does not even suprize one any more. then you dont have to think< "he's God" your mind exclaims it and you try to shut your mind up and go back to the silence and stillness in which you merge into him and experience more of it.

Robert, this comment displays a wonderful commitment to religious dogma. Now, please supply some evidence. Lots of people believe that Jesus speaks to them every day in their prayers. Ditto for other divine beings, both alive and dead.

I've heard the stories. I've been there and done that. I've imagined that the guru is God, and knows every thought in my mind. I understand what you're saying.

But saying is a lot different from reality. You're free to believe whatever you want. However, without evidence your beliefs are just as unbelievable as those belonging to any other religion.

robert franch says:

"Baba Ji makes it clear [...] being totally still in mind and body and looking onepointedly at the face of the Master in total stillness . The result is that [...] one suceeds one EXPERIENCES THAT HE IS GOD."

-- Thats a load of deluded pseudo-spiritual rubbish. And I don't care what your stupid "Babaji" says. I am no sucker for that kind of utterly naieve and foolish nonsense.

"Baba Ji shows many miracles to those who OBEY"

-- "Those who OBEY", you say? Sounds pretty damn tyrannical and dictatorial to me. How stupid can you get?

"disiples would be amazed that someone could meet with him and find nothing above the normal."

-- That's idiotic as well. Your so-called "master" is no more special than anyone. Excepet for being an authjoritarian leader of a large religous guru-cult, he is as ordinary as they come.

"Baba Ji often exhibits onmiscience revealing that he knows the most personal secrets of his disiples lives this shows he is omnipresent"

-- That is an outright LIE. That guy has no such "omniscience". He is just another phony cult leader, with a bunch of immature deluded disciples hanging on him... like your sorry ass.

"He reveal this only to the disciples who obey and follow the vows"

-- Oh yeah... the same old same old 'grovel & obey' garbage. People who think the way you do are dim-witted idiots IMO.

"who therefore love him above all else to them He show many many miracles,"

-- More disgusting fraudulent and deluded religious rhetoric.

"then you [...] think "he's God" your mind exclaims it"

"He's God" you say? NO dude... its YOUR mind that "exclaims it", not my mind. I am nowhere near that stupid.

Its rather sad to see people like you caught up in such absurdly delusional nonsense. Get some self-respect, why don't you.


robert franch:

“…miracles, infact they are a matter of routine after a while…”.

The interesting thing is, if one is practicing good intent and living with commitment to one’s own integrity then miracles happen daily as well.

Tao Sid -wake up you seem to be the same person-perhaps this is just mind games-and blog for blog sake.All very entertaining-but you miss the point of initiation into surat shabd yoga.
Prostitutes,butchers,murderers-have become saints-in the past in India-ie Saint is someone
who has gone to the 5th spiritual region =sach khand -sat nam call it what you will.
WE are all soul and the master is the source of all creation -shabd.
Those whoa re still in intellectual modes and who have no spiritual experiences -Tao Sid-obviously as most of your words are all intellectual with no actual accounts of the inner master-unless its all bravodo and bluster you write-and in fact you both have experienced analloyed bliss and contentment.
Which by the way comes when one gone inside and becomes one with Baba Ji,Charan Singh Great Master,Jesus,Mohammed-to name a few Sach Khand denizens.O have I experienced all of this-why not?
We are all masters in our our own right-says Baba Ji a few years ago-in the Shamiana-
As Jesus said 2000 years ago "O ye gods-you are all gods-and in fact Sid Tao we are.
Take notice YOU BOTH are doomed to Sach Khand.Once you destroy the mental blocks-of ego ego and EGO-humbly submit the mind to the sweet grace of surat shabd yoga-try it Sid
Try it Tao-forget about computers -sit in a chair-and let go-whats so hard about becoming God.I AM.Have been since 1984 after a trip to dera Feb April with Huzur Maharaj Charan Singh.
There is a lot of GOD around Sid Tao.Go inside and see for yourself.
Its much like experiencing sex and having an orgasm-for the first time--brothers -just do your meditation without expectation-Be told by one who has been there is there and is inviting you to the party-with karoake-Jimi Hendrix and Beatles song books-why not?
Why try and demonise Baba Ji -because he is trying to cheer people up-after all coming to the path means admitting we were following the wrong pathway-drugs,alcohol,meat diet immorality etc-and embracing a new lifestyle -comes with a commitment from both disciple and master so again please just be told by God -Ruhari .
Go and sit do simran bhajan with honest sincere effort-and you too wll experience my experience -becoming Baba Ji within.Radha Soami.God bless.Love is God God is Love.Alofa

My Friend you need to understand the concept first of all. He is perfectly a GOD in Human Form. I was one of you Guys long Ago but if U reads books and listen and understand but he says u will come to know what exactly mean of "doing Nothing". On the Earth There is ALWAYS A GURU B/C OF HIM AND HIS GRACE PEOPLE ACHIEVE SALVATION and Baba Ji is ONE OF THEM DOWN THE CHAIN IF YOU CARE FULLY READ THE LINK. Meditation with his grace will lead to that Path but to achieve that U need to at that level first. I Strongly disagree with U. I am Blessed that I AM HIS FOLLOWER AND I OPENLY SAYS THAT.

Michael, you're welcome to your faith. Just understand that what you've said is no different from a Christian saying "Jesus saves; he is the Son of God."

Every religious believer considers that his or her faith is true, while other faiths are false. Yet there is no demonstrable proof that any religion is true.

So this leads me to conclude that everyone has to determine one's favored spirituality, if they want to pursue such, on their own. Blind belief is one thing; reality is another thing.

Thanks for sharing. But no more preaching on this blog, please. Comments are for discussions, not preachiness.

Possibly most of us nurse a pet ideal, like a button, which when pressed makes us respond a little crazily...at least to those who don't have the same button.

Hi Michael, wish you're around to read the responses to your comment.

If there is a ' God ' out there, he is as much mine and as much yours. The RS path confines you and the ' special feeling ' you get is actually a ' spiritual ' ego.

We are all blessed in our own way, and that is what differentiates us from one another, makes each one unique and makes this world an interesting place.

And, it may be a good idea to read some of the posts here before you tell fellow bloggers to ' understand the concept first ' and stuff like that ! I find it hilarious how people like you drop in and start preaching as if the rest of us are lost in the woods and are waiting for some RS light to shine upon us !

Michael Sandhu writes:

"you need to understand the concept first of all."

-- what concept is that? why don't you try communicating more clearly. do you mean the absurd belief known as 'god in human form'??

"He is perfectly a GOD in Human Form."

-- just because you say so?? just because you believe that?? well thats rather lame. where is your evidence?? where is any evidence??

"I was one of you Guys long Ago but if U reads books and listen and understand but he says u will come to know what exactly mean of "doing Nothing"."

-- no, you were never one of us. and you have no idea or understanding about what we think and why. and btw, we have read the books. but books don't prove anything. and i don't give a damn what "he says". i have my own peersective, innate common sense, and clarity born of reason. and so i don't need to listen to other people's irrational beliefs and religious cult delusions.

"On the Earth There is ALWAYS A GURU B/C OF HIM AND HIS GRACE PEOPLE ACHIEVE SALVATION and Baba Ji is ONE OF THEM DOWN THE CHAIN"

-- that makes no more sense than the babbling of a lunatic.

"Meditation with his grace will lead to that Path but to achieve that U need to at that level first."

-- you don't know what other people need. you are just a babbling fool. and thats the "level" that you are at.

"I am Blessed that I AM HIS FOLLOWER AND I OPENLY SAYS THAT."

-- then go and be "his" follower. so what are you doing here?? you are directly violating "his" (gurinder's) orders by engaging in discussion, arguement, and preaching on the internet. so you are not really his follower, because you refuse to follow his instructions.


NOT JUST BELIEVE ON WORDS......
JUST SEARCH YOUR BEST FOR 'PURAN SATGURU'
GET INITIATED
FOLLOWS INSTRUCTIONS
DO MEDITATION
AND SEE YOURSELF INSIDE..

SELF REALISATION BEFORE GOD RELISATION......
FIND TRUTH INSIDE YOURSELF.. DO NOT BELIEVE ON OTHERS WORDINGS...

END

i am from the background of satsangies (radha swami family )i have blessing of my guru on me so i do trust him

The purpose of the 'karaoke' is for babaji (Gurinder singh) to give his beloved sangat (audience) the benifit of darshan.
You see as as much as our babaji preaches mediation, he has a way of encouragin and motivatin the youngsters, elderly and those new to the path.
Whether he be playing football (as i once had the great opportunity to do so) or rounders or even singing/listening to his sangat sing shabats, the overal purpose is that despite havin so much power he is setting his sangat an example of how to balance meditation and live social life in such a complicated society.
As in Ramayan, Lord Ram didnt fight to get Sita back using his powers instead he did in a way an ordinary human being would- this is called satying in his panah (will).
Saints come here to show us the way back home, what they do to achieve them help that goal, SHOULD not in my personal opinion interfere and raise questions as to whether they are 'god or not' after al personally being a radhasoami myself i can say that i see babaji as God as it him who is goin to get me thru to sachkand.

If Tao does not see this please someone pass it to him,thanks!

Hey Tao ! i am initiate of Gurinder and like the path and i also like the criticism i mean this blogs comments.I know Brian was initiated by Charan but what about you. Do you meditate were you initiated, when? And i also have one instance for you. Somewhere you mentioned dzogchen, so can you suggest any up to five books to start with (thank you).

Tao?

"Hey Tao ! i am initiate of Gurinder and like the path"

-- i'm sorry to hear that.

"I know Brian was initiated by Charan but what about you. Do you meditate were you initiated, when?

-- got initiated into sant mat over 30 years ago. i have done meditation for about 44 years. but far more importantly, i am a vaishnava in the sampradaya and parampara of Sri Krsna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

"Somewhere you mentioned dzogchen, so can you suggest any up to five books to start with"

-- yes, i recommend these books:

* Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State, by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

* The Crystal and the Way of Light: Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen, by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu and John Shane

* The Cycle of Day and Night: Where One Proceeds Along the Path of the Primordial Yoga: An Essential Tibetan Text on the Practice of Dzogchen, by Namkhai Norbu

* Primordial Experience: An Introduction to Dzogchen Meditation, by Manjusrimitra - Namkhai Norbu and Kennard Lipman.

* The Golden Letters, by Garab Dorje

* Self-Liberation through Seeing with Naked Awareness, by John Mrydhin Reynolds and Namkhai Norbu

* The Supreme Source: The Fundamental Tantra of the Dzogchen Semde, by Namkhai Norbu


Thank you on that, RESPECT and don't be sorry i never was and am not in dogmatic stuff. Peace

"i am a vaishnava in the sampradaya and parampara of Sri Krsna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu."

tAo, as a vaishnava, is there ritual, worship, and practice involved? If so, how far more importantly are these issues? thanks for more info, your friend Roger.

When people inquire, I find it hard to categorize or explain my personal philosophical-"spiritual" views.

However, I am glad I don't have to say I'm a "vaishnava in the sampradaya and parampara of Sri Krsna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu". Nothing wrong with that, but I would have to practice saying it for about a year. I mean, try saying it ten times fast.

Or, imagine the look of surprise on my face if someone replied, "Cool, I'm a vaishnava in the sampradaya and parampara of Sri Krsna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu too!", especially if I happened to be in a biker bar.

No offence, tAo.

tuscson, its not about what that may sounds like to you or to anyone else... it is simply about what that means. to put it even more simply for you, it just means that i am a humble devotee of Sri Krsna, in the lineage of Sri Chaitanya. and btw, no offence taken.

roger, if you simply chant the Hare Krsna mahamantra, you will immediately begin to have Krsna consciousness. then understanding will follow quite naturally, as your Krsna consciousness develops more... as you advance more ior gain more consciousness of Krsna, or 'Krsna consciousness'.

please listen to this audio file:

http://www.hansadutta.com/MP3MUSIC/Happening_Album/Address.m3u


Talking about imaginary blue men...

roger...you can also develop your smurf consiousness by viewing this

http://www.thewb.com/shows/smurfs/The-Astrosmurf/4a021de7-5465-4964-9ee5-f6b40e21721f

please disregard ignorant fools like Nobody, for they are lost in maya and drowning in the ocean of nescience.

Sikshashtaka prayer of Sri Chaitanya:

1. Glory to the Sri Krishna sankirtana, which cleanses the heart of all the dust accumulated for years and extinguishes the fire of conditional life, of repeated birth and death. This sankirtana movement is the prime benediction for humanity at large because it spreads the rays of the benediction moon. It is the life of all transcendental knowledge. It increases the ocean of transcendental bliss, and it enables us to fully taste the nectar for which we are always anxious.

2. O my Lord Krishna, Your holy name alone can render all benediction to living beings, and thus You have hundreds and millions of names like Krishna and Govinda. In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies. There are not even hard and fast rules for chanting these names. O my Lord, out of kindness You enable us to easily approach You by Your holy names, but I am so unfortunate that I have no attraction for them.

3. One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.

4. O almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor do I desire beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. I only want Your causeless devotional service birth after birth.

5. O son of Maharaja Nanda [Krishna], I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet.

6. O my Lord, when will my eyes be decorated with tears of love flowing constantly when I chant Your holy name? When will my voice choke up, and when will the hairs of my body stand on end at the recitation of Your name?

7. O Govinda! Feeling Your separation, I am considering a moment to be like twelve years or more. Tears are flowing from my eyes like torrents of rain, and I am feeling all vacant in the world in Your absence.

8. I know no one but Krishna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord unconditionally.

Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna
Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama
Rama Rama, Hare Hare

http://www.hansadutta.com/MP3MUSIC/Vrindavana_Album/Hare-Krsna-Kirtana.m3u

Sri Isopanishad:
http://vedabase.net/iso/en1

Sri Brahma-samhita:
http://vedabase.net/bs/foreword/en1
http://vedabase.net/bs/5/en1

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase Network:
http://vedabase.net/en1


tAo,

Thanks for your e-mail. My pc, at this location, blocks all setup programs. That said, i'm sure the chant music must be very nice.

The 8th part of the Krishna prayer mentioned,

"I know no one but Krishna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord unconditionally."

---Does Lord Krishna actually engage in 'rough' handling? Likewise, does Lord Krishna have a need or desire to be worshiped?
---I wonder if Lord Krishna enjoys being completely free to do anything and everything. I'm not sure I would.

Thanks again,
your friend roger

About # 6 of the prayer.

I am not sure that it is desireable to be all choked up with tears flowing from my eyes like torrents of rain and all my body hairs standing on end at the mention of the name KRSNA. I mean, what if it happened at a job interview?

That said, I can attest to the beneficial effects of chanting names like Krishna and devotional songs which I did for a couple of years. Also, the Bhuddist chant "nam myo ho renge kyo", which I did in the sixties is of benefit as well. Also, some Amer-indian chants are great for tuning into The Great Spirit. After all, #2 says the Lord has hundreds and millions of names.

tucson,

This was mentioned,

"One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and should be ready to offer all respect to others."

---Being inquisitive, regarding the 'opposite' end of something, I would wonder,

....if I could benefit from chanting the holy name of the Lord in a non-humble state of mind, and thinking of myself as being higher than the straw in the street....

Never know, I may find I could receive many benefits as well.

Chanting the Hare Krsna mahamantra:


"This transcendental sound vibration, the chanting of...

Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna
Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama
Rama Rama, Hare Hare

...is the sublime method for reviving our Krsna consciousness.

As living spiritual souls, we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter since time immemorial, our consciousness is now polluted by the material atmosphere.

In this polluted concept of life, we are all trying to exploit the resources of material nature, but actually we are becoming more and more entangled in its complexities.

This illusion is called maya, or the hard struggle for existence over the stringent laws of material nature. This illusory struggle against the material nature can at once be stopped by revival of our Krsna consciousness.

Krsna consciousness is not an artificial imposition upon the mind. This consciousness is the original energy of the living entity.

When we hear the transcendental vibration, this consciousness is revived. And the process is recommended by authorities for this age.

By practical experience also, we can perceive that by chanting this Maha-Mantra, or the great chanting for deliverance, one can at once feel transcendental ecstasy from the spiritual stratum.

When one is factually on the plane of spiritual understanding, surpassing the lower stages of sense, mind, and intelligence, then one is situated on the transcendental plane.

This chanting of...

Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna
Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama
Rama Rama, Hare Hare

...is directly enacted from the spiritual platform, surpassing all lower states of consciousness -- namely sensual, mental, and intellectual.

There is no need of understanding the language of the mantra, nor is there any need of mental speculation, nor any intellectual adjustment for chanting this maha-mantra.

It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and as such, anyone can take part in this transcendental sound vibration, without any previous qualification, and dance in ecstasy.

We have seen it practically. Even a child can take part in the chanting, or even a dog can take part in it.

The chanting should be heard, however, from the lips of a pure devotee of the Lord, so that immediate effect can be achieved.

As far as possible, chanting from the lips of a non-devotee should be avoided, as much as milk touched by the lips of a serpent causes poisonous effect.

The word Hara is a form of addressing the energy of the Lord. Both Krsna and Rama are forms of addressing directly the Lord, and they mean "the highest pleasure eternal". Hara is the supreme pleasure potency of the Lord. This potency, when addressed as "Hare", helps us in reaching the Supreme Lord.

The inferior or material energy, called as maya, is one of the multi-potencies of the Lord, as much as we [the living entities] are the marginal potency of the Lord.

The living entities are described as superior energy to matter. When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the marginal potency [the living entity] is in contact with the spiritual potency Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity.

The three words: namely Hara, Krsna, and Rama, are transcendental seeds of the maha-mantra, and the chanting is a spiritual call for the Lord and His internal energy Hara, for giving protection to the conditioned soul.

The chanting is exactly like the genuine cry of the child for the mother. Mother Hara helps in achieving the grace of the supreme father Hari -- or Krsna -- and the Lord reveals Himself to such a sincere devotee.

No other means therefore, of spiritual realization is as effective in this age, as chanting the maha-mantra:

Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna
Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama
Rama Rama, Hare Hare"


-- A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada


i think this blog is full of bunch of fools who have failed themselves in their spiritual journey and trying to destroy others faith in babaji..yes you may think i am behaving like a radical muslim who gets offended by things but that is because of the faith i have had in him and my spiritual experiences which i am not obviously going to disclose on this site..i really feel pitty for those people who think that babaji is not a true guru..people like these dont even deserve to go to hell..however my best wishes with them that someday they may realise the truth and accept babaji as a true guru..nd ya about people like faqir chand if they have really said that the present masters dont have powers and crap you people will find him in hell alongwith you..

@tao..i now understand why are you criticising the radhasoami guru..coz it seems u r an agent of some other guru trying to attract devotees for lord krishna..no wonder why people like you go to hell...

yesterday i posted a response to the comment-- Posted by: jatin shahatin shah November 07, 2010 at 09:47 PM --but my response still has not appeared.

@tara-what else should i understand from this..tao one one hand is criticising one guru and singing the praise of some other guru..any reasonable person who visits this blog will consider him as an agent of some other guru not only me..spiritualism is not something in which any faith is criticised upon..if it is done then that is not spiritualism..

tAo, it took me a while (sorry), but I've put the comment in the Open Thread 8 post, since it was purely Hare Krishna related. See:
http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2010/10/open-thread-8.html#comments

Brian, my comment [Posted by: tAo | November 08, 2010 at 08:10 PM] that you have moved over to Open Thread 8, was a specific response to jatin shah and his comment to me above [Posted by: jatin shah | November 07, 2010 at 09:47 PM], and so it makes no sense to move it elsewhere.

it was meant specifically as a reponse to jatin shah, so you might as well un-publish (delete) it from Open Thread 8

------------------------------------

This was jatin shah's initial comment to me:

@tao..i now understand why are you criticising the radhasoami guru..coz it seems u r an agent of some other guru trying to attract devotees for lord krishna..no wonder why people like you go to hell...
Posted by: jatin shah | November 07, 2010 at 09:47 PM

-----------------------------------

And this was my response back to jatin shah:

HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA
KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA
RAMA RAMA HARE HARE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXgVcl6gZ-Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61jlWqFJyhA

Sri Krsna uvaca:
sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah

Sri Krsna says:
Abandon all varieties of religion and simply surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.

Posted by: tAo | November 08, 2010 at 08:10 PM

tAo, since you'd like to have your response on this post, rather than another one, I'm pleased to accommodate. I simply ask that from now on, please speak in your own words as much as possible.

If you feel that the Hare Krishna philosophy has something to say on some subject, I'd be much more interested in your own thoughts in this regard, rather than merely quoting some scripture or pointing to an Internet site.

ok, i can understand your preference.

however what i posted (with the exception of the quote from Bhagavad gita), and also including the two videos of chanting of the Hare Krsna maha-mantra... was very much how i personally wished to respond to the previous comment that jatin shah had posted to me.

in other words, my post represented my own personal thoughts and positive attitude in response to jatin shah's rather negative comment towards me. this was simply how i chose to communicate my own thoughts and response. i thought that was pretty obvious, but apparently not. therefore, perhaps i should have addressed my comment more specifically to jatin shah, in the beginning.


Posted by jatin shah:
"tao one one hand is criticising one guru and singing the praise of some other guru."

-- incorrect. i was not "singing the praise of some other guru"... but now that you mention it, it is only reasonable to criticise any supposed guru whom one regards as being bogus, hypocritical, and misleading.

none the less, i am singing the praises of the supreme personality of godhead, Bhagavan Shri Krsna.

Posted by jatin shah:
"any reasonable person who visits this blog will consider him as an agent of some other guru"

-- i am an "agent" of no one. i am not qualified to be any such "agent" of my guru. at best i can only aspire to be a most humble devotee, a servant of the servant of the servant of the supreme personality of godhead, Shri Krsna.

Posted by jatin shah:
"spiritualism is not something in which any faith is criticised upon."

-- i don't criticise "faith"... i only criticise what it is that you invest your faith upon. if you put your faith in a fraud or an imposter, and because of that you are therefore drowning in the ocean of nescience and maya, then i may try to pull you up and save you from your blindness and folly. but in truth, it all depends upon Krsna's mercy.

no matter what, if you simply begin chanting Hare Krsna mahamantra in a humble disposition, then immediately and surely you will enter the spiritual (trancendental) platform and develop sublime love of God.

Hare Krsna


@tao-i agree with you that one should surrender to his guru but if you read the scrriptures in depth it is only a living guru through which one can attain salvation.i have great respect for sri krishna but the guru has to be a living guru as per the baani of guru nanak,kabir and tulsi sahib.

jatin shah,

i did not say anyting about surrender to guru.

i indicated surrender to Shri Krsna, the supreme personality of godhead.

i don't care about your "scriptures", or your "living guru", or any "guru nanak,kabir and tulsi sahib".

i have already blessed by my guru Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prahbupada, who has given me the immeasurable benediction of the glorious Hare Krsna maha-mantra, in the lineage of Shri Krsna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and thus Krsna consciousness and pure love of god through devotional service to the supreme personality of godhead, Shri Krsna.

so i have absolutely no need of any other mundane things, such as your religion or your mental speculations.

so i advise you to abandon all of that nonsense, and simply chant the Hare Krsna maha-mantra in a sincere and humble state of mind, and your life will soon become sublime and Krsna conscious, and you will go back to godhead.


This is the prayer to Srila Prabhupada, which is called his pranama mantra:

nama om visnu-padaya krsna-prestaya bhu-tale
srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine

"I offer my respectful obeisances unto His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupäda, who is very dear to Lord Krsna, having taken shelter at His lotus feet."

namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine
nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine

"My respectful obeisances are unto you, O spiritual master, servant of Sarasvati Gosvämi. You are kindly preaching the message of Lord Chaitanyadeva and delivering the fallen souls, who are deluded with impersonalism and voidism."


This is the prayer to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and His associates, which is called the Panca Tattva maha mantra:

jaya sri-krsna-caitanya prabhu-nityananda
sri-advaita gadadhara srivasadi-gaura-bhakta vrnda

"All glories to Lord Sri Krsna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Lord Nityananda, Advaita Acarya, Gadadhara Pandita Prabhu, Srivasa Thakura and all those devotees who follow in their footsteps."


This is the Hare Krsna maha-mantra:

hare krsna hare krsna
krsna krsna hare hare
hare rama hare rama
rama rama hare hare

"O Srimati Radharani (the divine energy of the Lord Sri Krsna), O all-attractive reservoir of pleasure Lord Sri Krsna, please engage me in Your loving devotional service."


tAo, your invitation to experience Krishna consciousness by chanting the familiar mantra (I heard it a lot in my college days, when devotees were ubiquitous at airports and on campus) is appreciated.

But just as it would be against this blog's comment guidelines for a Christian to keep on putting up BIble quotes in an attempt to gain converts, so it is with scriptures from any faith. It's great that you are pleased with your Krishna consciousness practice. Just understand that this is a churchless blog.

I appreciate your bhakti attitude. But what makes you believe or think or "know" that Krishna is God?

Most of the blog comments by Tao in the past have been deeply condescending to many people but perhaps understandably so since tAo is very much against RSSB and all that cheese. However, it makes me laugh out loud when i see he is a Harry Krishna. After all this time and you get this! Dear or dear. I would like to believe krishna is God and all that jazz but perhaps unfortunately for me i can't buy it.

tao firstly would like to remind you that this is a rssb blog and not a "Hare Rama Hare Krishna" Blog where you are trying to convert people from one faith to another just like the Taliban does..please start your hare rama hare krishna blog to see how many people join in..lol...your comments are like that of a radical muslim who beleives that islam is the only true faith in the world and all other faiths are fake..your comments are not only harmful to your image but also of Lord Krishna though i have good respect for lord krishna but your comments are doing the negative job instead for lord krishna..

jatin, I assume you mean that this string of comments is on a RSSB-related blog post, not that this blog as a whole is a "rssb blog" -- which it isn't, of course.

Occasionally I write about RSSB (Radha Soami Satsang Beas) subjects because I was part of the group for so long. If I previously was a devoted Catholic, I'm sure I'd be writing about my experience with Catholicism.

But I don't think much about RSSB these days. I certainly never read RSSB or Sant Mat literature. My book pile is focused on neuroscience, Buddhist meditation, and such.

Brian,
i'm actually not "attempting to gain converts", nor promote any scriptures. i was simply sharing my own views in a positive sense. and as far as my aspirations to Krsna consciousness goes, i take a most humble attitude. also, for myself, i experience that chanting and singing the mahamantra is quite churchless. however, if you would rather not see any more brief quotations, such as from Bhagavad gita etc, then i will not post any more.

--------------------------------------------

David,

you asked: "what makes you believe or think or "know" that Krishna is God?"

i don't know anything. i have abandoned all of that sort of thing. as far as Krsna being the supreme personality of godhead, it is both a matter of Krsna revealing Himself to me, and also it is the undoubted conclusion of Sri Krsna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and many other very authoritative personalities, as well as the Sri Isopanishad, the Bhagavad-gita, the Brahma-samhita, and the Srimad Bhagavatam, etc.

you stated: "since tAo is very much against RSSB and all that cheese."

yes, the RSSB. meaning, i have primarily criticised the RSSB (namely the organization and its guru)... and to a lesser degree the sant mat philosophy and dogma, which tends to be somewhat impersonalistic and mayavadi.

you stated: "it makes me laugh out loud when i see he is a Harry Krishna."

that is incorrect. it is not "Harry". it is spelled Hare (and pronounced as Haah-Raay), not "Harry". your attempt at ridiculing and belittling the name of Sri Krsna, reveals your mudane consciousness and your underlying bad attitude. also, fyi, i am a Vaishnava.

you stated: "After all this time and you get this!"

what is it that you think you got, that you are unhappy with? first, why don't you try educating yourself about Krsna and Krsna consciousness, before you belittle?

"I would like to believe krishna is God and all that jazz but perhaps unfortunately for me i can't buy it."

well, i think that you don't know anything about it. and nobody is asking you to "buy" anything. its free, and you can take it or leave it. its actually Krsna's mercy that you have even heard about it, but that remains for you to discern. but sincerity and humility are necessary.

--------------------------------------------

jatin shah,

you stated: "tao firstly would like to remind you that this is a rssb blog"

that is incorrect. NO, this is NOT an "rssb blog". rssb is merely only one subject among many that are discussed here. so you are wrong.

you stated: "and not a "Hare Rama Hare Krishna" Blog where you are trying to convert people from one faith to another"

i never said that it is. i have simply shared my own views. nor am i trying to "convert people from one faith to another". i am not concerned with other people's "faith". i am simply a most fallen but aspiring devotee of the supreme personality of godhead, Sri Sri Radha Krsna.

you stated: "just like the Taliban does"

fyi, Krsna consciousness and chanting the Hare Krsna mahamantra has no similarity to that at all.

you stated: "please start your hare rama hare krishna blog to see how many people join in."

i don't need to do that, because there are a very great many very fine Krsna conscious websites on the net. there is a vast body of authoritative information and inspiration for Krsna consciousness on the internet.

you stated: "your comments are like that of a radical muslim who beleives that islam is the only true faith in the world and all other faiths are fake."

that is also incorrect. Krsna consciousness
and the Hare Krsna mahamantra is a beneficent gift. it is Krsna's mercy. it is prasad. there is no condemnation of any faith. you are misguided and your understanding is faulty. you have a deep misconception about Krsna consciousness. but if you would learn more about Krsna and Krsna consciousness, with humility and an open mind, then you can gain understanding and develop love of God.

you stated: "your comments are not only harmful to your image but also of Lord Krishna"

i have no concern about my "image". none of this is about me. and my sharing Krsna katha and the glory of chanting Krsna's name, is hardly "harmful" to Krsna. it is devotional service. so again, you seem to have a very limited and negative understanding of Krsna consciousness.

you stated: "though i have good respect for lord krishna"

you clearly have no respect at all for Shri Krsna, who is the supreme personality of godhead and the origin of all. if you did, you would be happy to even hear the name of Krsna. your comments which are critical of Krsna consciousness, are actually somewhat demonic. so for you to now say that you respect Lord Krsna is total hypocrisy. it is mere pseudo-bhakti lip service.

you stated: "your comments are doing the negative job instead for lord krishna."

that is impossible. nothing whatsoever can
negate or diminish Krsna. and chanting the
holy name of Krsna is His mercy. unfortunately for you, you appear to be in a rather degraded status... in that you have no taste nor appreciation for hearing the name and the glory of Shri Shri Radha & Krsna. but you can change that, if you will simply begin to say or chant or sing the Hare Krsna mahamantra, in a humble state of mind. then your life will become sublime. Hari bol!

Hare Krsna


tAo,

Whoa! Re the Hare Krsna chanting - I'm surprised.

I haven't been on the blog for a few months, and last I recall you were very anti-religion... perhaps you still are?

What prompted the change?

Tony

@tao..friend im really happy to see you totally imbued in the love for the Great Lord Krishna and wish u lots of success..

But at the same time you also should acknowledge that just like you are imbued in Love for Lord Krishna there are others also who have the same love for their guru and you have no right to criticise someones guru..we may have difference in opinions but criticisg some guru is not the right thing to do ..hope you realise that friend....

jatin shah,

you replied: "at the same time you also should acknowledge that just like you are imbued in Love for Lord Krishna there are others also who have the same love for their guru"

-- yes i am aware that others may feel love for their guru, and that is fine with me. i have no concern with other people's gurus. but i don't have to respect them either, especially if i feel that they are bogus.

the thing is, in your comment, it seems you are comparing between gurus. but the difference here is that Sri Krsna is not simply my guru - not just some guru. Sri Krsna is the supreme personality of godhead. and my guru is a pure devotee of Sri Krsna, in the parampara and sampradaya of Sri Krsna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

"you have no right to criticise someones guru."

-- no, i have every right in the world to criticise and judge other gurus, especially if i feel and see that they are a bogus guru. everyoner has a right to their opinions.

"criticisg some guru is not the right thing to do"

-- i don't agree. if i think that some particular guru is false (a fraud), or is misleading people, or is corrupt... then it is right to say so. i don't have to just automatically respect some guru, if he has not earned that respect.


Interesting posts.

I have read everything you have written.
The last revelation of tAo is very funny, indeed. I think he is just kidding.

But everyone is free to choose his/hers reality tunnel.

Or create his/hers reality tunnel of his choice. Why to choose prefab mind constructions? Built your own.

DIY spirituality.

sir dere is dera christmas party ....just for money dont talk rubbish
there is no such tradiotional skits ...in dera

....If he is not there, then please let me know who else is there... If he is not there..nobody is there...

sri kirshna was one of the most bigus demi god,
thats they reason tao like people who follow or worship him speaks so ill about others.
tao has been using so abusive language in this blog,
i believe its mention in bhagwatgita and might be krishna used to use these kind of languages,with pandavas and kouravs,
tao according the way he comment post and express is so funny...
if there is anyone who is spoiling the name of LORD KRISHNA.
No one person would be TAO..
inspite of hare krishna hare rama..
he is doing kaala krishna kaala rama
grow up dude.

And Tao not to forget
Krishna played big politics
by first giving discourses of dharma to pandavs for encouraging them to kill kourvas and later on telling them you have committed sin.
Lord krishna has a dual personality in entire bhagwat gita
not to mention he is the son of KAL :))

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