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January 24, 2009

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After personally writing 9 pages of piffle, I find that I don't really have much to say. In summary of all this, I was initiated through the RSSB organization, I am not interested in the religious organization itself.

My priorities:
RSSB religion - not for me
Goddesses one might meet - okay (met one, lost same)
This present moment - Absolutely! :)

Essentially, I agree with most (if not all) the spiritual commentary above and accept the personal experiences presented at face value. These experiences seem consistent with my own doubts and considerations. If one has no doubts, they must either be enlightened or fooling themselves. Mostly I just fool myself.

----------------

Thank you Obed and zenjen for your kind comments posted on Chapter 2 of RSSB expose: business practices. If I said anything interesting it is only because of all these insightful posts on Brian's site.

Kind Regards,

Brian, et. al.

This paragraph, I found interesting, regarding the succession story,

"In Sawan Singh’s time, Kirpal Singh was providing important support to the Beas enterprise helping with books and preaching and he had developed a respectable status (Preachers who climb to the pulpit are naturally looked up to by the listeners). So when he found out that he was not going into the Palace and since he was interested in getting the importance given a Head of a holy enterprise, he decided to strike out on his own."

---How long before Sawan's death, did Kirpal strike out on his own? From my initial internet (2 years ago)readings, I think, I remember Kirpal becoming the santmat Guru at the time of Sawan's death.
---How did Kirpal officially declare succession to the santmat Guru title, and start his branch of RSSB?

Thanks for any replies,
Roger

Mate, reading all this sends me to one conclusion: “You all are living a mind fuck”

Chris, thanks for sharing such a profound, meaningful, thoughtful comment. You make me want to read this material over again, because when somebody (like you) reacts to it so strongly, this implies that there's unwelcome truth in it.

Brian and Waking Now,

Thank you. I went through this more carefully. I will leave my previous comment as is.

I will add that, in my experience, there are sounds and lights associated with this practice. I can't say what they mean except that they seem to arise out of the silence experienced through the meditation practice offered by the RSSB Master. Having a fair background in the sciences (engineering) I have never deluded myself to think there isn't also a neurological phenomena associated with shutting down the systems of the mind/brain/body organism. There is certainly a greater peace associated with this practice but there did/does seem to be a great deal of "being alive" given up in the process. One could argue that the ego self must be given up and that this literally leads one to the brink of death. This is the stated aim of the practice. This certainly isn't a simple thing to "do." It has always bothered me that a lower protein vegetarian diet is also associated with arrested brain development, brain damage, and a weakened will. I was concerned about all this when requesting initiation through an organization.

Even in my awareness of the physically harmful effects the practice could potentially have, my self-image was very much in discord with mass media culture. What the culture said I needed to make me happy was making me less happy. This had to change. I can't argue the heart of the Master's of Sant Mat. The teachings draw from so many sources but, as with any religious interpretations that explain the transcendent, the fundamental message seems consistently covered over by so many words and concepts that the message of stillness in the present moment is lost. I've read thousands and thousands of pages of Sant Mat literature. To me it all says the same thing - "be very still both in mind and body." The simran is sometimes a useful tool to bring attention back to center. Perhaps my mind is not so needy of such a device but simran does often times seem too noisy when it is dark and quiet.

I can't assess the business aspects of this path but do know that in general, people are very poor at "doing nothing." They continually do stuff and so they gather, and gossip, and build, and complain, and on and on, until they are spent in the world. In this case, the RSSB organization and all the associated activities and physical wealth has been the result. Sant Mat appeared to be a religion when I requested initiation - which was a deep concern since I didn't want something in the way. I think I expected some kind of extra benefit from the initiation. Not a physical benefit but a benefit associated with the "inner master" and this untying the "soul-mind" knot thingy. It was just a concept of mine and I still don't understand what it means. In a sense there was greater quiet in my life as I set aside more time to meditate, but there was the problem of disconnecting from the world while being in the world that I couldn't quite understand and to a large extent still don't. Particularly if I am supposedly the world.

I had heard another satsangi say that they expected my eyes to glaze over like other satsangies who were deeply committed in their meditation. I found this comment about the glazing eyes odd but I understood what it meant. After all, I really was trying to die and my external attachments were in fact loosening. As my thoughts about the past or future subside, I am becoming more joyful. Though not significant, there are sounds and lights too. I still don't know what the relevance of these lights and sounds is. Not usually interesting or pleasant but this is simply how it is. When I remember what the practice is about - I am not casual about it - it is a serious commitment to "die while living." My commitment is a sincere devotion to the practice of stilling the mind, not building an organization. All external observances don't mean anything. I don't go to satsang (there isn't one around) and don't follow the Master around the country or wish to go to India or the Dera. These are external practices completely filled with both physical and mental noise. I was aware of those who wished to "hang" with the Master, but I never understood this since the real master was supposed to be in me anyway.

So, I don't know about any organization and am glad that the world isn't limited to just the RSSB organization's official policies. Perhaps it is a blessing I am not able to attend "satsang." In the Sant Mat literature, it is said that the True Satsang is within. The only time I heard Gurinder Singh speak, paraphrasing what he said, "all you have are concepts of these teachings." I don't know what everyone else sees in the Sant Mat teachings but it seems clear that the teachings aren't clear. Perhaps it is this obtuse vision through the mental landscape "we devotees" have which creates religious institutions of our concepts. In essence, perhaps the more successful a religious organization is, is an indicator of how obscure the true spiritual message has become to its disciples.

I don't know - the great bindu from which all else comes...uhh what Chris says. :)

Ramana Maharshi (1 hr)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6865032740128202927

Sorry to beat this to death but if you watched the Ramana Maharshi video at the link above you will notice toward the end that all the self proclaimed "followers" of Ramana began construction projects and eventually denied access to Ramana. Ramana responded by moving himself outside the ashram doors. He seems to me to have been a marvelous being.

The bit on Kirpal Singh, it is important to realize, is nothing more then a restatement of the Beas promulgated view of his succession. It does not demonstrate any research or serious review of the subject, which when considered in depth, is not so simply dismissed. I wrote an extensive review of the subject titled, Crisis and Renewal, which considers the entire context of the Kirpal Singh succession claim. It can be had by writing me.

PS: [email protected]

Can anyone research and get information on what happened to sawan sadan case, what did mr. babani's legal heir's do. Or is it all closed.

Dear X,

It would be rather difficult to obtain any information from RSSB ( Radha Soami Satsang Beas ) for this kind of query. The representatives are usually tight lipped when it comes to anything questionably controversial.

Maybe you could get in touch with someone who may know Mr. Babani's legal heir, or find someone who knows a relative from the family.

What you really trying to prove on the issue of sant mat. Have you ever experienced it or you simply wants to criticize to satisfy your ego to pose yourself as knowing everything about the thin thread of sant mat.


There is nothing wrong with following certain frequencies or doing inner work, preferably when undertaken with a sense of (and for) the sacred,the good and the true. But this personal business, the inner forays should remain just that and ought not to be used as a "replacement" for the richness, the goodness, beauty and the sacredness of our outer daily life and (precious) relationships. Keeping the two separate will enrich both states. The ratio is: One step inwards, two steps outward.

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