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September 10, 2008

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"The Tao, itself invisible, inaudible, and subtle, is realized fully when all ordinary sensual seeing, hearing, and knowing is completely given up."

----does the imagination, then take over?

"…Thinking no longer with the mind, the accomplished mystic now lives by the spirit alone"

---does the imagination help One to be accomplished.

"In the cosmology of Taoist mystical philosophy, one may imagine the Tao as a tone of a certain wavelength that pervades and encompasses all there is."

---Oh, ok, then One may imagine...

"So while Taoism has no-mind, Sant Mat has locked-in-place mind. The aspiring Taoist mystic seeks to embrace mystery directly;"

---Taoist mystic seeks to embrace mystery directly with what? His imagination? What is the source of this imagination?

"When the intention dies and becomes a pure stream of consciousness, sensual input is turned into a series of floating images and sounds"

---a series of floating images and sounds? How would One know to write that? Using Ones imagination, One creates floating images and sounds?

I can see the value in Edward's "blank" space in a previous thread. Too much talking,(imo) in the above Tao discussion.

Roger, I'd agree more with you, if you hadn't used words and concepts in your own comment. If there's too much talking in the post, there's also too much talking in your objection to too much talking.

I resonate with Taoism because it feels closest to reality to me. I mean, I can experience life without thinking (much) about life.

This happens all the time. For everybody, wouldn't you agree? I take a dance lesson. I think about it. I can't do it very well. Then I reach the point where I just do it without thinking. And it feels right.

I sit down to meditate. I can either fill my mind with dogmas, beliefs, expectations, philosophies. Or...I can just sit down and do as little as possible.

Breathe. Be aware. Live. Exist. Maybe repeat a simple mantra when thoughts pop up. Staying as close to the still center of myself as possible.

There's very little theology or belief system in this. Describing it -- yes, now words are necessary. But doing it, like dancing...no words.

I think you're mistaking the description of what Taoism is pointing toward with the no-thing itself.

I agree that seemingly we can't entirely leave behind our preconceptions and such. But they can be reduced considerably. In Taoism there always is yin within yang, yang within yin; light within darkness, darkness within light; stillness within motion, motion within stillness.

The way I see it, life is a mystery. Taoism dives right into the mystery without overly conceptualizing it. Life - consciousness - existence: who can say what they are? But perhaps we can approach being what they are.

Brian,

Thanks for your reply,

You stated,

"This happens all the time. For everybody, wouldn't you agree? I take a dance lesson. I think about it. I can't do it very well. Then I reach the point where I just do it without thinking. And it feels right."

---yes, it happens all the time, and I would agree. How does One create, "And it feels right?" Feeling right comes about without thinking? Where does, "Feeling right" come from?

Nothing wrong with,

"I resonate with Taoism because it feels closest to reality to me. I mean, I can experience life without thinking (much) about life."

---How do you experience life without much thinking? So there is some (without much) thinking? Does Taoism include some small amount of thinking?
---Is it possible to be something other than a thinking person. Is it possible to be an absolute non-thinking person?

After walking in the woods, time went past, the sky grew dark. Suddenly, there was my ego, sitting grandly, humming tunelessly.

I danced!

Ohhh kay, where was I...

Yes, it is foolish to think of Tao as a religion or a philosophy. It is more like an endocrine panel, or a function of the miniscus: a natural phenomenal outgrowth of having a brain in this particular world. Your skin can keep out poisons, and you don't have to consciously participate.

So, how do we know? Watch the wager window workers at a race track - the good ones have kung fu. The hucksters at the carnival live by kung fu. This is why the old boy says the tiger does not harm the infant, there is a flow of energy that unites the two.

Go ahead and pull it right out of the wiki, "Many oscillators, including the human voice, a bowed violin string, or a Cepheid variable star, are more or less periodic, and thus can be decomposed into harmonics."

My stars, but doesn't that just mean the the superficial thoughts that each of knows can be let go are not worth getting a hold of in each other? What the idiots and geniuses think matters no more to me than mine own thoughts. I don't have to be in sitting meditation to let go of the ephemeral, especially now.

Oh, and do you know what else? I am frustrated with the way one of my teenagers is acting today.

"Morning is a few mugsful of dance:
I samba slow to the cat mewling;
Turn an amusing Peabody at the crossword puzzle;
Spin into a buttered bagel polka
Like waltzing Mount Hood, ibex-kneed."

How about: To be more in tune with the Tao requires minimizing thought whilst undertaking the exercise, because thought contaminates the experience by conceptualising, evaluating and even directing it. Thus we end up limiting the experience with our preconditioned mindsets. Reflective thought that comes after the experience can of course be of some value.

Hey,

That's pretty good Edward. You're really good at this stuff. I think you should know you are appreciated for taking the mind where it can no longer go and intuition sets in. I am the Walrus. Goo goo ga joob!

Why would thought contaminate the experience? Thought is also a part of the experience. I think that thoughts contaminate the experience of life when one tries to define life through his thoughts alone. Thoughts by themselves do not contaminate any experience, reflection itself in my experience actually adds to the experience of everything. Only when I try to define myself completely through ideas is when I feel the burden of thoughts.

Livia Kohn,

I have a few questions.

From your statements,

"To attain oneness with the Tao, one has to abandon all ego personality, blot out the intention and silence the will, go back to the center of the mind, isolate the spirit and make it stable and infused with Tao…Unity in thinking and feeling is attained, the inner spark of the mind joins with the pure cosmic energy of the Tao. Human beings not only intuit the divine reality within and without, but join it with all their being."

--Isolate the spirit. What is the spirit? Can spirit be isolated?
--The divine reality within. How does the reality within become divine?


“…Thinking no longer with the mind, the accomplished mystic now lives by the spirit alone…”

---An accomplished mystic. Why the need for labels and titles? The word: Sage. Sounds like descriptions that separate them and us.

I like the basic message of Taoism. However, (imo) Livia, too much sales and promotion in your written discussion.

I do reserve the right to be wrong.
Best wishes,
Roger

Tucson,

Could you write a comment that describes,

Your observation or experience of,

"my response to hearing the Beatles' "I AM the Walrus."

Sounds like an interesting read,
Roger

I Am the Walrus Lyrics:

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly.
I'm crying.

Sitting on a cornflake, waiting for the van to come.
Corporation tee-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday.
Man, you been a naughty boy, you let your face grow long.
I am the eggman (woo), they are the eggmen (woo), I am the walrus,
Coo coo, kachoo.

Mister City P'liceman sitting
Pretty little policemen in a row.
See how they fly like Lucy in the Sky, see how they run.
I'm crying.
I'm cry, I'm crying, I'm cry, I'm crying.

Yellow matter custard, dripping from a dead dog's eye.
Crabalocker fishwife, pornographic priestess,
Boy, you been a naughty girl and you let your knickers down.
I am the eggman (woo), they are the eggmen (woo), I am the walrus,
Coo coo, kachoo.

Sitting in an English garden waiting for the sun.
If the sun don't come, you get a tan from
Standing in the English rain.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen, I am the walrus,
Coo coo kachoo ka coo coo kachoo.

Expert texpert choking smokers,
Don't you think the joker laughs at you? (ho ho ho, he he he, ha ha ha)
See how they smile like pigs in a sty, see how they snide.
I'm crying.

Semolina Pilchard, climbing up the Eiffel Tower.
Elementary penguin singing Hare Krishna.
Man, you should have seen them kicking Edgar Allan Poe.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen, I am the walrus,
Coo coo kachoo ka coo coo kachoo
(rhythmical speaking along with juba's).
Juba juba juba, juba, juba, juba, juba, juba, juba juba. Juba juba.....
(speaking)

Edward's stuff reminds me of this song only he does it better soemtimes.

Once, I was listening to this song and after hearing, "I Am the Walrus, coo coo, kachoo" then "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together." became perfectly clear.

Funny how little things can be a catalyst. For someone else perhaps "yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye" would do the trick.

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