Who has the best deal on death?

I'm not religious (obviously), but I still could sign up on the faith dotted line if I was assured of getting a good deal on death.

Which would be, basically: living forever. That's the worst part about death for me, not existing. I can handle the dying part. It's the likelihood of an eternal non-afterlife that sort of bugs me. (Actually, quite a bit more than "sort of.")

So I decided to read "How Different Religions View Death and Afterlife" to get a better idea of what sorts of salvation bargains are out there.

I've only read five chapters so far. Each is written by a expert in that religion, so it's nice to get the straight scoop from a true believer. The faiths I've learned about are: Assemblies of God, Baha'i, Baptist, Buddhism, and Unitarian Universalism.

As you can probably tell, the nineteen faith chapters are presented in alphabetical order in the book. I jumped ahead to Unitarian Universalism for a couple of reasons.

One, when I took the Belief O'Matic test a few days ago, I scored 100% on Unitarian Universalist – probably because I answered "don't know" to many of the questions. This bothered me a bit, because I used to be solidly Pagan, and that's a cooler-sounding faith.

Two, my wife's sister and her husband go to a Unitarian fellowship, and I like the sound of it. I could probably become a Unitarian if the group in our area didn't have such Christian overtones (every Unitarian group has its own style, I gather).

Unfortunately, I didn't find a whole lot reassuring about my death and afterlife in the Unitarian Universalist chapter, which, not surprisingly, is one of the shortest in the book.

Unitarian Universalists accept a scientific view of life and see life as lived in the here and now rather than in the hereafter. Whether or not Unitarian Universalists are agnostic about the existence of God, they tend to be agnostic about the existence of an afterlife…We simply admit that we do not know whether or not there is an afterlife.

Well, that's no fun. True, but not very helpful for my aspiration to eternal life at the right hand of Whoever or Whatever. So I went back to the beginning of the book. There I learned about two Christian faiths, Assemblies of God and Baptist.

It's easy to see why Christianity has taken off, believer-wise. Christians get a damn good deal on the afterlife, for not much cost. Basically you just have to believe in Jesus.

Assemblies of God: Death for us is simply transition into the presence of our Lord Jesus where we will share the joys of heaven…The believer who accepts and follows Christ is saved for eternity and retains his same personal identity…From the Bible we see also that we will recognize each other there [in heaven]. We shall know our friends and relatives. We shall enjoy fellowship with the saints of old time.

Baptist: Heaven and hell are conceived of as places where the redeemed and the damned either receive their rewards and undergo eternal felicity or are alienated from God. In one, there is the fellowship with God; in the other, the possibility of fellowship does not exist. The one is characterized by mansions, golden streets, home and reunion with loved ones; the other by outer darkness, fire, torment and isolation.

Hmmmm. Which to pick? Again, I can understand why so many people jump on the Christian train, since supposedly it's headed straight for the promised land – and it doesn't take along anyone but believers.

But, it's not for me.

So I moved on to the Baha'i faith. This felt quite familiar, as Baha'I is based on the teachings of a modern day incarnation of God, just as the Sant Mat faith that I followed for about thirty-five years is. In the 1800s Baha'u'llah revealed the way it is, death and afterlife wise.

There is, from a Baha'I view, but one physical experience for each soul – Baha'is do not believe in transmigration or reincarnation.

By becoming a Baha'I, one is not necessarily assured of salvation or of becoming more spiritual than someone who is not a Baha'i. But Baha'is believe that God has designated Baha'u'llah's teachings as the source of salvation of mankind for this dispensation, a period which shall endure for at least 1000 years. Therefore Bahai's also believe that the best means for the transformation and ascent of the human soul can presently be found in recognizing the station of Baha'u'llah and in following the guidance he has revealed.

Oh, great.

I spent more than three decades following the teachings of another messenger of God, and now I learn that I picked the wrong one. Plus, I'm never going to have another physical existence, so I'm screwed unless I get on board the Baha'I ship pronto.

Problem is, how do I know that Baha'u'llah is the real deal? He makes the same claims as Sant Mat does for their gurus, and also pretty much as Christianity does for its "guru," Jesus. How to choose?

Buddhism offers a pleasingly universal conception of the cosmos. But it sure requires a lot more brain cells to comprehend. Compare this excerpt from the "Buddhism" chapter with the pithy Jesus saves.

Selflessness, in both sutra and tantra, does not mean persons do not exist at all. "Self" here does not mean the "you" or "me" of ordinary language but refers to an overly concrete and otherwise misconstrued existential status. Nothing – neither persons, places, Buddhas, nor enlightenment itself – exists inherently. But they do exist. Only the inherently independent existence attributed to them does not.

Well, Buddhism, I want to exist as me! Otherwise, what's the point? (Guess if I understood that point, I'd be enlightened.)

So the search continues for a religion or faith that (1) makes sense to me, and (2) offers up a terrific deal on death. All offers considered.

I've got fourteen more chapters to read. Maybe Zoroastrianism…

Comments

[Tracie the Red]

Well, there's always the Heathen path - the path of the Vikings, where in the afterlife you get to swill ale and gaze upon pretty wenches and chow down on roast pork and fight like a man all day and wench and drink and party all night.

Errrrmmmm....

Hey, sounds like an awesome afterlife to me.

:wink:

[Brian]

Tracie, sounds good. Thanks for the suggestion. One thing: I'm a vegetarian. Can I substitute tofu for the roast pork? And I'd want to do more than "gaze" upon the pretty wenches. Assume that if I fight all day, Heathen Heaven allows loving all night.

[Edward]

The wee free men believe that this is the afterlife, and if they "die' here, they are reborn into the real world. The only requirement is to be a magical tattoo-covered Nac Mac Feegle.

No more difficult than becoming a Baptist.

[Rain]

I had to interrupt reading your blog to take the test and it was one that required more thought than I was ready for but I did it anyway. I came out 100% Neo-pagan which is probably pretty accurate for my thinking today. It means my rebirthing in this lifetime has been pretty complete from Christianity which I would likely have scored 100% 20 years ago.

As for afterlife, I am not sure that it matters which we would prefer. It will be what it will be unless it's like the movie 'What Dreams May Come' where what comes next is determined by what we expected. In which case, I will likely be reborn someday to a new life something which doesn't thrill me either right now given the condition in which we are leaving this earth. I just want to make the most of this life. It will be interesting to see what comes next but I have liked what is. Can I come back as me but the knowledge with which I didn't start out this one? *s*

[Manjit]

Ah, interesting test! I got 100% Taoist on my score, followed by 98% Liberal Quakers, which I've never even heard of! I must look into it! Unitarian Universalist was 6th in my list at 86% Apparently I more a neo-pagan, new-ager & mahayana buddhist than UU :)

Anyway, nice little test....

[Susan]

I think there maybe some misunderstandings about what the Baha'i Faith teaches.
When Baha'is speak of Baha'u'llah as the means of salvation for all mankind in this dispensation we are not so much talking about saving souls for the afterlife, we are talking about saving the world and ushering in an era of peace as has been promised in all the world's religions.
We don't believe you have to be a Baha'i to be 'saved.' For Baha'is heaven is nearness to God and hell is remoteness from Him. Abdu'l-Baha teaches that our life on this plane of existence is similiar to that of the fetus in the womb. Just as it must develop eyes, ears, and other faculties which are of no evident use in the womb so we must develop spiritual faculties and virtues in preparation for the next life. If we fail to do so we will end up crippled in the life to come. Most religions teach those same virtues to varying degrees.
As far as how one knows whether or not Baha'u'llah is the 'real thing' I don't suppose you can know without investigation. One must examine his character and his writings themselves to determine if they are indeed from God.

[tucson]

My results from the Belief-o-Matic test...

100% Christian Science
100% Scientology
96% New Thought
86% Hinduism

Go figure. Guess I can cancel the medical insurance and dust off the L. Ron Hubbard books.

[Adam]

Wow, I am definitely MULTI-FAITH

1. Bahá'í Faith (100%)
2. Jainism (100%)
3. Liberal Quakers (100%)
4. Mahayana Buddhism (100%)
5. Neo-Pagan (100%)
6. Orthodox Quaker (100%)
7. Secular Humanism (100%)
8. Taoism (100%)
9. Theravada Buddhism (100%)
10. Unitarian Universalism (100%)

[catherine]

Mine's also Unitarian Universalism 100%, but unlike Brian, it is of no importance to me as to whether there is or isn't an afterlife. I much prefer to live in a fairly light, generous way for it's pleasant effect in this lifetime.

[Edward]

1. Liberal Quakers (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (98%)
3. Neo-Pagan (97%)
4. New Age (85%)
5. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (80%)

No real surprise here.

[Roger]

My results from the Belief-o-Matic test...

1. Inquisitivism (99.35%)
2. Mayan Modernism (83.4%)
3. Classical Methodistism (95.6%)
4. Plutonic Formationalism (90.1%)
5. Cretaceous Sea Dragonism (79.0%)

What tha hell?? OK.....who messed with the program? I'm really pissed.....
I DEMAND A RETEST!!!!! Someone is messin with my mind......

[Teacher]

With much pleasure I have read your nicely written weblog; you seams like a rather insightful human being.

You write:

"But like I often say before I meditate in the morning:
If there's any being out there who can bestow a pleasant life after death, make me an offer."

"I'm not religious (obviously), but I still could sign up on the faith dotted line if I was assured of getting a good deal on death."

I am a teacher in a semi-religion we simply call the Teaching, we have only one requirement of out members and that is to be sceptic to anything that can not be proven. Yes, we call it the Teaching; we do not have any ancient, foreign or glorified name for our semi-religion, we have been around far too long for such imbecile egocentric personal glorification. Heck, we haven't accepted novices from the general population for over 2 000 years (because of some rotten apples); today we "head-hunt" our novices. I write semi-religion because we do not believe in any omnipotent controlling God. We do however believe in a neutral energy-mass entity who happened to be the first. Because the entity is what I can only explain as a feminine energy I always say 'she' about The First.
Anyway, a rather large area of the Teaching is to learn how to be able to control ones energybody and get insight of how energies affects us, and I am not only talking about you plugging your fingers into the electrical outlet. The Teaching is more about you getting control over your energybody to be able to sustain a state of existance without your physical body, to become a Neo Being so to speak, a being that is more energy than mass and not as you are today, the other way around. It is physically possible to become a Neo Being and all the current members have seen proof of that, some of us have come as far as having the knowledge to be able to choose to become a Neo Being if we would like to. As you may imagine we are a very small semi-religion when most members, who are ready, choose to become Neo Beings and live other lives than a life stuck to their physical bodies on this planet. This is not some occult sect thingie nor something where you end up in some dreamworld as a result of some bad mushrooms and then wake up to your ordinary state of existance; this is Science!
Today you are about 99.97% physical mass [Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Hydrogen, Phosphorus, ...] and 0.03% pure energy [your energybody], in a Neo Being state the relations are pretty much reversed.
According to the energy/mass relation calculation [E=mc²] your present energybody contains about 1 800 TW of energy which is well enough to lift [W=mgh] over 100 billion tonnes one mile up in the air. Wrap your brain around that one for a minute..

As I have taught others, it would not be impossible to teach You how you may transform yourself into a Neo Being with eternal life and preserved conciousness, as in "Brian will always be Brian". I do not state that you will become immortal, you will die if you are stupid enough to fly into a sun or in any other way destroying the little mass you will have as a Neo Being and hence destroying yourself. You will neither become an all-knowing entity that can tap into the 'secret of universe' (whatever that is), you will be you in another form than today. You will be given some rules that you must obey, but they will not interfere with your state of existance - they are only for your own protection.
I think that this is the best deal anyone will ever get; you do not have to worry about dying or being dead because you will simply not die, no biological machines (like a heart) that stops because they can't cope anymore. That is, ofcource, unless you actually die before you are ready to transform yourself into a Neo Being.

An agreement should work both ways, don't you think?

This is my offer to you;
In the precense of all people reading this agreement on the Internet as whitnesses, I hereby state that I am willing to teach you all the know-how to transform yourself into a Neo Being and live very well in the afterlife.

So, what do You have to offer the Teaching and The First?

Before you say "Faith" or "Prayers", know that The First does not need nor want your faith or prayers to exist; only low level gods [I state them as gods in lack of a better word] that is created by physical beings, such as us humans, need constant prayers (energy channeling) to be able to sustain some form of existance. [Why do you think that they are so competitive? "You shalt not praise other gods besides me!", "Pray 18 times every day or you will not come to my paradise!", and so on].
She cares for you and me as You would care for a single ant in a gigantic antfarm with several billions of ants (if we assume that antfarms are your biggest interest). You may love your antfarm and all the ants in it [en-mass] but you do not really care if one or two dies, you probably won't even see them dead for all the ants running around; and they will always breed more ants, won't they?

So, seriously, what do You have to offer?

[tucson]

Teacher,

What does a Neo Being do in the afterlife and why do you require an offering?

[Roger]

Teacher,

You stated,

"I am a teacher in a semi-religion we simply call the Teaching, we have only one requirement of out members and that is to be sceptic to anything that can not be proven."

---Teacher, you are setting yourself up for much skepticism, when you come to a blog like this. The "She" and the "Neo-Being" routine sounds like another smooth sales job. You have much to explain. However, your comment is an interesting change of conversation around here.
Best wishes,
Roger

[Robert Paul Howard]

Dear Teacher,

I offer my skepticism - about everything you have stated.

Robert Paul Howard

[tAo]

Well Mr (or Miss) "Teacher"...

What have you got to say for yourself?

We're all ears (or eyes). So lets have it. You've made some rather odd claims, so are you going to make good or not?

If its skepticism you want, well then you came to the right place.

So put-up... or shut-up.

Though I suspect you won't be back. Just another bag of brainless bullcrap... and then you're off to the next metaphysical Blog to drop another load on them.

We'll see....

[Teacher]

Greetings, tucson, Roger and Robert Paul Howard.

Not the one I was hoping for to answer my comment, I didn't find Brian Hines eMail adress hence posting the above comment, but with English not being my native tongue I will try to answer Your questions and comments. I will also try to make it a short answer because I know how I am when I teach...

Stating that a Neo Being lives in some kind of 'afterlife' was perhaps not the best choice of words, 'second life' or 'next life' may not be the best of words either, you simply change your physical being and live in 'this life', this reality; not in any paradise nor in another dimension. But then again, English is not my native language. If you prefer the physical state of death and take your chances with paradise I will be the last one to stop you, I Usually do not meddle with religious, occult or superstitious matters, having churches or not.

The short answer to tucson's question of what a Neo Being does is, that Universe is a pretty big place with numerous civilisations [I first wrote "countless" but despite their extreme amount they are probably countable], as a Neo Being you may go and visit some or all of them, which will perhaps occupy you for a couple of eons; when done, there are many other universes besides this one. As a Neo Being you pretty much do whatever you want as long as you do not deny any physical beings the posibillity of becoming a Neo Being [Law #1]. In a Neo state you are able to interact with other Neo Beings pretty much the same way you interact with other people today, there are not so many differences - you concentrate a little bit more but that's it. You may even become a physical being if you take over someone elses' body (without breaking Law #1). As a Neo Being you should always remember that other Neo Beings may take the Laws of The First more serious than you do, it is therefore better to follow them than getting all megalomania and going on a rampage thinking you are a God worthy of physical beings prayers and worship, you might get yourself destroyed.
Becoming a physical entity is mostly for one reason and one reason only: to be able to feel. To feel the grass under your naked toes, feel the soft rain in your face, taste food, drink, smoke (if you like), smell the autumn leaves, feel the icy snow melt inside your sweater, making love and feel your loved ones' smooth skin under your fingertips - her hair between your fingers - letting all the nerves inside your skin and neurons in your brain fire at the same time screaming "This Is Pleasure!", and all other things that physical beings, such as humans, take for granted. With the knowledge of how to become a Neo Being you may at any time go back to the Neo state again, it takes some fraction of a second.

I have been called many thing but never someone doing a smooth sales job; nonetheless, Roger, you are very much correct and my target is currently Brian Hines. Why? I truly believe that he deseve it. Am I wrong? Maybe so, I do not know him - the one that write this weblog and calls himself 'Death/Rebirth' write in a way that caught my attention, That, I do know! So, the smooth sales job may have actually been done that other way around. You see, the Teaching and The First do not need any disciples, pupils, students, believers or whatever one may call them. The Teaching have been existing for many thousands of years but if the Teaching on this planet would cease to exist tomorrow The First gets what she wants, a society with her physical beings in it - left alone!
We, members of the Teaching, do not tell people 'believe or die', if you ever would to become a student of the Teaching you would find that it is all science, it is not much more than that. Reaching another state of existance is all physical, with no occult beliefs nor drawing any pentagrams, wearing crosses or any other symbols attached to it. Just like ice becomes water or iron melts when induced with high enough energy you may change your own form by gathering enough energy [about 150 kg energy to 'bind' 3 kg of mass]. It's all easy, and a ten thousand (or so) year old very correct science, actually more correct than today's science, with numerous scientific calculations and mathematical proofs rather than religion (that's why I usually call the Teaching a semi-religion). Out physical reality just looks a little different then today's science piture it, it is a little bit more - that's all. (read a little as a huge lot ;)
Because of one occurance in our "Book of the Beginning" (Genesis, if you like) where a neo being (mark well the abscense of capital letters) abused the physical beings we are bound to obey the Laws that the one that happened to be The First eons ago gave the neo beings that was created by physical beings. The neo beings created by physical beings have never had any senses, feelings or any other concept in their existance; they are better known as gods, demons or whatever other name some bored out drugged hallucinating medieval monk came up with. Only Neo Beings and neo beings (higher or lower level of existance) are truly bound by The First's Laws and therefore all physical beings are pretty much free to do whatever they like; all the Laws "shall" becomes "should" when it comes to physical entities, unless you previously have been a Neo Being. The Laws of The First tells me that I have the obligation to assess the person/-s that are no students of the Teaching, but I choose to teach, if they are ready or not to become Neo Beings. (I actually assess all students too on a regular basis). If they are not ready any number of things may go wrong. They will perhaps bring too little or no mass at all with them when they decide to 'transform' [another bad choice of words]. Or they may even bring too much mass with them, if they truly believe a they can't live without their heart they will bring it instead of the truly important mass. In those cases they will die.
By choosing to teach someone that is not really ready I may break The First's Law #1 and (not willingly but nonetheless) destroy the persons chances to become a Neo Being, perhaps by their own force. I am one of those that take The First's Laws most seriously.
What I am doing here, making Brian this offer, is a short-cut to eternal life; I have never before done this but I truly believe that it would work if he accepts and my assessment will be positive, and because of he writing this weblog the way he did - I couldn't help myself. Noone ever before (at least not on this planet) have had this oppertunity of not having to learn the Teaching from a novice state. To become a Neo Being you should first know how to live as a physical being - you should go threw all of the nine phases of life and their many stages - and more; always with the emphisis on should, we are no fascitstic sect, cult or religion that rule with fear with threats of violence in this life or in the next. In Brians case I strongly believe that we may even skip one or two cources..

A person that writes as intelligent and well as Brian Hines and are indeed willing to recognise that there may be other solutions to the problem of death must (according to me) be assessed and given the chance of accepting or denying a better possibility.
Before you enter any community (whether it is fishing, golf or poetry reading) you ask yourself what you have to contribute to that community, what do you have that they might want or need? If you every morning for who knows how many years ask "give me an offer" then you should perhaps also ask yourself the question "what do I have that is important for the community I would like access to?".
Hence my question to Brian Hines, what do You have to offer? Better questions are perhaps, what do You have to contribute? What do You have that is so important to be made the offer you require?
I can probably come up with some more variations to this question but I truly believe that Brian knows what I am asking, what I am talking about.
For all others..
I am not talking about the kind of offering as to burn a lamb so that some God's nose will be happy.
I am not talking about money for My time teaching, that goes without saying. Just like any other physical being on this planet I have to eat to survive; if I decide to become a Neo Being, just because I teach for free and can't survive, there will be noone around to teach others, so..

Anyway, the above mentioned question is actually an easy one in contrary to my follow-up questions; but I believe that Brian may answer them all to my satisfaction and thus help me make the best of choices so that no laws may be broken.
If you ask yourselves, instead of being whitty and offer total scepticism; which in itself is a very good thing!! I want everyone to be sceptic, and all americans to be skeptic.. I am probably more sceptic that you are combined, but what I am stating here I know for a fact [I speak only for myself as I always do and not for my fellow members of the Teaching]. If you ask yourselves, what You would have to contribute or offer the kind of 'community' I am speaking of, no matter if you believe me or not (make it a funny mind-game if you like), you may perhaps suddenly find yourself in another phase of life instead of the Ego Phase. For everyones information; being in the Ego Phase is no more negative than being in any other phase, it's just a name for a phase when life mostly revolves around ones 'self' or 'ego'. Perhaps, if you are lucky, you will enter the Discovery Phase a k a The Mind Enhancing Phase and perhaps, just perhaps, (many perhaps here :) see the big in the small and not only the small in the big. None of the phases of life gets you any closer to becoming a Neo Being but the Discovery Phase is a pleasant phase to be in, and you will hopefully see some evidence, or some hint of evidence, of what I am saying is true and correct.
Who knows, you might get lucky! ;)

Now I will not occupy more of your time, I truly hope that some ? became !

While writing this I saw that an apparently very unhappy ignorant grumpy old man had left his mark in the comment section. I really do not understand why you, tAo, have to poison your surroundings with aggression and harsh words. Even though I am not in any way affected by your small mean remarks, nor the tiny excuse for a human being you are showing all to be via this media, it may work in your favour in physical relations with other humans, when those occations arises, if you lay the smallminded thoughts about you being so old and wise and have earned the right to be aggressive, aside. Not that I really care but, tAo, if you Form something that you proudly can show are your 'self' instead of the hollow shell of aggression and maliciousness you put up on display for everyone to see, I truly believe that you would feel much better as a physical being..

And please, tAo, refrain from writing comments until you have anything, and I do meen anything, at all to ask or say that haven't been said in a comment before yours! There are enough aye-sayers and fawners in this world!

Sincerely, the Teacher of the Teaching.

[Obed]

Dear Teacher,
What you write I respect .I cant but help feeling
that becoming a Neo Being is bit like becoming an
eternal tourist and a rather exclusive one at that.
Surely becoming a creator and assisting in the
creation of worlds is a more noble undertaking?
Regards
Obed

[Adam]

Teacher,

1. how old are you?
2. What's wrong with death? Why is it a "problem"?
3. As Obed suggests, why not bypass the "neo" phase of existence for becoming pure energy instead of a "being" at all?

[Roger]

Tao and Tucson,

--The word, "offering" when used in religious and spiritual matters. Sounds interesting.
If I wanted to sell a product or service, and didn't want to ask for payment, would asking for an offering be a path to follow? Or maybe the word, "donation" would work better. Are these words proper, in a "tax-exempt" non-profit organization?
Does this wordage, exempt One from paying self employment taxes?
Just curious, no big deal,
Roger

[tucson]

When somebody gives you something it is customary in most cultures to make some sort of exchange. If someone asks you to dinner at their house, you bring the wine or something like that. It's a polite gesture.

I think Teacher is saying you don't get something for nothing. He would like something in exchange for what he claims to offer whether it be some sort of work, skill, knowledge, object, or monetary payment.

I would also like to ask Teacher what is wrong with death as anything born necessarily dies even if it takes 548 trillion eons, each eon consisting of 871 billion years, and that would be just the very first instant of eternity, the very beginning of forever. Absurd isn't it?

Birthless and undying, how could I 'live'? Never having 'lived', how could I 'die'? Timeless and infinite, unextended in space-time, unliving, undying, I AM. And so are you, whoever reads this.

So:

When you look at me it is in 'your' mind that I appear to exist.

When 'I' look at you it is in 'my' mind that you appear to exist.

When each of us looks at each other it is in the mind of the 'looker' that whatever is seen appears.

And nothing we attribute to one another exists objectively at all.

'Your' mind is only apparently 'yours'.

It is not 'yours' but it IS what you are, all that you are.

Its 'looking' is all 'looking', manifesting relatively as subject perceiving object.

All seeing occurs in mind. Where do 'you' occur? Where do 'I' occur? Where does 'he', 'she', 'it' occur? Only in mind that is looking.

Who sees? Do not I see, always I? But I can't see my seeing, or hear my hearing, taste my tasting, smell my smelling, feel my touching. Nor can I cognise my cognising of any of these.

Therefore, I am absent, always absent. I only appear to exist as an object in mind. I am not 'here' or 'there' except as a concept.

Who sees 'me', who sees 'us', via one another, we who are absent as see-ers? I, absent, see us all via each object seen as 'us', and what is seen is not, never can be, 'us', but always, and only, what is looking, mind which is looking, looking via conditioned objects, perceiving each 'other' in mind, not one of which has any existence as 'other'. See?

That is why there are no 'others', because being absent, no 'I' is present. The entire conceptual universe is THIS consciousness which I am, I who am not.

[Teacher]

Greetings Obed, Adam and Tucson.

As much as I would unlike to mess up Brian Hines weblog with the Teaching your questions are indeed legitimate and should be answered.

Obed.
You are pretty much correct in your assumption that being a Neo Being is being an eternal spectator or tourist (unless you become a physical being with all that it includes), but are you not a tourist here on earth for the extent of your lifetime?
Being a Neo Being has not much to do with being noble or undertake a noble quest, that thoughts will lead pretty much anyone to megalomania (or hybris if you like). I really truly believe that the Creator (which by the way are pure neutral energy separated from The First by The First) is doing a pretty nice work without the interference of others. In addition to that, creating mass out of energy is not something that you do in a flash with ease. Even creating a single carbon atom is (for a Neo Being) an energy consuming process that may wear out just about anyone, The First created the Creator as a catalyst for energy/mass transformation just because too much energy was consumed by her first creations. The First want the physical creations (Her Creations, in a sense) to have as much energy (which includes mass) as possible to be able to grow and evolve in their own pace. I know that I, personally, do not really want to interfere with The First's plans, who knows what they all are? I live my life (no matter in what form) to the best of my ability and try to keep out of such unnecessary trouble as trying to create matter from energy. You may do it, if You become a Neo Being, as long as you follow the Laws of The First.

Adam.
1. I really truly do not know my age; nor do I see the relevance of age in anything anyone do or say. To state that ones age have something to do with (for example) wisdom, personal or mental evolution are just stupid! I once knew a young girl, the daughter of a friend of mine, that when she was five years old were more wise and more mentally evolved than almost all humans on this planet; needless to say, she is no longer with us..
2. If you like the sound of eternal nonexistance and that in a century from now noone will know who you were or even if you have ever existed at all, death is not a problem for you. Brian Hines, whos work herein I was commenting in the first place, believed death, or actually Being Dead, to be a problem; I am trying to give him a solution to his problem. For me, personally, death is not an issue.
3. Well, I think that being a pure energy being demands so much more from your part, instead of just gather your existing mass (the one that Matter ;) and leave the premises (or just stay around). I do not know neither have I heard of anyone trying to become pure energy and survived to tell the tale. I reckon that there is something with eliminating your mass so that your energybody doesn't have any mass that holds it together (as a kind of glue) which usually means that your energybody becomes in universe what one final exhale becomes in the wind. If the question #2 is no problem for you, this should neither be a problem.

Tucson.
I think the Teacher is saying exactly what he writes, without the need of any interpretations. When you have come up with an answer, the correct one, the Teacher knows if the Student are ready to answer the next question. Questions like this are all about assessing mental growth, not the exchange of any merchandise. I thought anyone with the smallest amount of mental growth would recognise that; I was apparently wrong.. or was I?

Nothing is 'wrong' with death, it is a part of Your life. No, Tucson, not anything that is born must die, no matter how long time that pass. I assume you have come to the conclusion that You Will Die and it may even provide a confort for you to believe that, but exchange your old atoms with newer atoms and you will Never Die, no matter how many eons you are able to count to. Too simple perhaps? I am beginning to realise that anything that is simple - in a philosophers mind, can't be true. Does simplicity make something wrong? Is it so, that philosophers can't handle the fact that the nature is simple and tries to make up absurd stories and thesis that noone really understands to compensate for their shortcomings to understand their own brain. If a computer can function with simple on/off switches [or do computers really function? or do I imagine my computer functionable? what is the matrix? follow the green rabbit, damn it!] - can it not be so that the neurons in our brain function in a similar way? or is it too easy to be true?

The rest existential philosophical mumbo jumbo I will not even care to comment, anyone that makes such clumsy attempt to confuse someones head with very badly written 'indisputable proof' which may be destroyed by even the smallest of physical or mathematical equations are most likely trapped inside his/her own tiny universe of thoughts and selfmade imaginary wonders; or are joking with the fairly intelligent humans in his/her vicinity.
I choose to assume the latter though I was laughing when reading it.

By the way, the popular philosophers did not actually believe much of their own thesis and claims they had to state to win the monthly debate contests in Rome [and other places]. The first price was enough to sustain a really good quality of life for a year or two; and they won local fame too; winning = a lot of students = more money = pleasure.
Today, it is not even sure that the philosophers wrote the things that's left to read; the writings that 'survived' the Turks' censorship (much of Socrates work didn't survive, apparently) may very well be modified or completly invented by the Turks' in an attempt to mess with peoples minds. Who knows? It was translated into Turkish from Ancient Greek or Latin and translated back to Greek when given back; what was really 'lost in translation'?

Now, if you all will excuse me, I will await Brian's answer..

Sincerely, the Teacher of the Teaching.

[Obed]

Dear Teacher,
Thank you for your reply.I am sure you are aware
that "neo" is an anagram of "one".So you as
a Neo Being are a One Being.
All the best
Obed

[Roger]

Teacher,

You mentioned,

"Being a Neo Being has not much to do with being noble or undertake a noble quest, that thoughts will lead pretty much anyone to megalomania (or hybris if you like). I really truly believe that the Creator (which by the way are pure neutral energy separated from The First by The First) is doing a pretty nice work without the interference of others."

and

"The First created the Creator as a catalyst for energy/mass transformation just because too much energy was consumed by her first creations."

---Teacher, could you write a comment that gives more detail of;

The Neo Being and neo being.

The First (She).

The Creator.

I'm not asking for proof, just interested in more exposure to your understanding of the above.

Thanks,
Roger

[tucson]

Teacher,

While I admit my difficulty in expressing non-objective relation in the relative terminology of language, it is you who has failed to comprehend that the being known as 'you' has no objective existence except as an idea in mind. There is nothing to preserve or extend. Who would do it..an imagined entity sustaining an imagined entity? That which is born and dies is a fiction. What we are is eternity as THIS presence which has no quality, shape or anything objective about it. To even identify it as 'it' is misleading.

As long as subject is centered in a phenomenal object, and thinks and speaks from this object, subject is identified with that object and is trapped in illusion.

As long as this condition prevails, the identified subject can never be free because freedom is liberation from that identification.

Abandonment of a phenomenal center constitutes the only "practice", and such abandonment is not an act volitionally performed by the identified subject. Rather, it is a non-action leaving the formless center in control of phenomenal activity and free from fictitious interference by an imaginary self.

Are YOU still thinking, looking, living, as from an imaginary phenomenal center? As long as you do that you can never recognise your freedom.

Or, to say it another way...When all relativities are seen as non-existent nothing remains to be understood.

If we clearly perceive the difference between direct intuition in "whole-mind" and relative comprehension in mind divided into subject and object then:

WHO could there be to live and die?

WHAT could be brought into existence or be taken out of existence?

WHERE could there be a space in which objective existence could be extended?

WHEN could there be a time during which objective existence could have duration?

Objective existence is phenomenal appearance only. Non-objective existence is unaware of existing and it is phenomenally unknowable.

Objective existence is figuation in mind. Non-objective existence only exists as such in mind, knowing everything except what is knowing.

Objective mind is self-elaboration in space-time while non-objective mind, phenomenally void, knows neither.

By whom is this being said? By mind trying to see itself and not succeeding. Why? As space-time It appears as void. Intemporally It cannot know what is knowing.

We are conditioned to think that what we are is the presence of what is present which is the absence of what is absent. But when we 'apperceive' what we are we find that what we are is the absence of what is present and the presence of what is absent.

*******************

When the beetle sees, it is I that am looking.

When the bird sings, it is I that am singing.

When the lion roars, it is I that am roaring.

But when I look for myself, I can see nothing because no thing is there to be seen.

Teacher cannot see me either because when he/she tries to see me it is I who am looking. Teacher can do nothing because only I can do anything.

The cockroach can say that also, and Teacher, because we are not three, or two, or one.

I am the sea too, and the stars, the wind and the rain. I am everything that has form because form is my seeing of it.

I am every sound because every sound is my hearing of it.

I am all flavors, each scent, whatever can be touched because that which is perceptible is my perceiving of it. All knowing is mine.

They have no other existence and neither have I because what they are I am, and what I am they are.

What the universe is I am, and what I am the universe is.

And there is no other at all or any ONE whatsoever.

************************

In light of this where is the need to aspire to become an atomic "neo-being"?..except as a diversion.

Have at it.

I think I'll load up the board and go surfing.

Cowabunga!

[Adam]

Tuscon,
Nicely said.

[tAo]

Oh where oh where is our brother and comrad Manjit when we need him the most?

This current case of a "Teacher" requires Manjit's special skills and touch.

However, in the absence of my old bud Manjit, I will do my mediochre best to cut through this ridiculous poseur's obvious bullshit.

So in any case, after wading through the recent ridiculous garbage posted by this absurdly self-possessed charlatan who fashions himself a "Teacher", I can hardly stop laughing long enough to make even a general comment.

In fact, this kind of poseur and his inane pseudo-spiritual mumbo-jumbo is not even really worth the bother.

So therefore, at the least I will first address this outrageous fool's comments which he has directed in response to Tucson (as for addressing the rest of "neo" crapola, and perhaps a few of the other naive responses posted by a couple of the other more gullible regulars here, my overall critique may have to wait until later).

Actually, I hate even to have to quote this goofball poseur's garbage, but it's the only way that I can point out the blatant nonsense of it ALL. So here goes:

The utterly pretentious neophyte who calls himself "Teacher" said the following (in quotes):

"Tucson, I think the Teacher is saying exactly what he writes, without the need of any interpretations. When you have come up with an answer, the correct one, the Teacher knows if the Student are ready to answer the next question."

-- Is this chap not the most laughable charlatnan to ever pass this blogs way, or what? And I guess he even expects Brian and Tucson to kiss his neo-feet! What an absolutely presumtuous pseudo-metaphysical moron! And I thought Brad was a case. But in view of this inane teacher/poseur, my apologies to Brad. This here freaking nut-job of a so-called "teacher", is so far out to lunch, that even the funny-farm must have rejected him.

"No, Tucson, not anything that is born must die, no matter how long time that pass. I assume you have come to the conclusion that You Will Die"

-- Birth IS Death you stupid fool. And btw, Tucson doesn't think that he dies. Only that which is born dies. You did not comprehend a single word of Tucson's comments. That's because, as far as maturity, clarity, awareness, and realization goes, you are nothing more than an extremely pretentious neophyte, and certainly not any sort of "teacher", in ANY sense of the term.

"and it may even provide a confort for you to believe that, but exchange your old atoms with newer atoms and you will Never Die, no matter how many eons you are able to count to."

-- This kind of nonsense "neo" new-age immortality mumbo-jumbo has been bandied around for ages. This pretentious fool must be way the hell out in the proverbial boondocks, spiritually speaking.

"I am beginning to realise that anything that is simple - in a philosophers mind, can't be true."

-- Dude, you obviously don't know jack-shit about philosophy (or about "philosophers")... especially when making such a ridiculously broad generalization as above.

"Does simplicity make something wrong? Is it so, that philosophers can't handle the fact that the nature is simple and tries to make up absurd stories and thesis"

-- Again, this friggin goofball doesn't have a clue what the hell he is talking about... or about what others can or can't "handle". Hence the "simplicity" rap. And talk about making up "absurd stories and thesis"... this moron hasn't the foggiest idea how utterly ridicululous he sounds like to those who do have discriminative wisdom.

"that noone really understands to compensate for their shortcomings to understand their own brain."

-- Dude, you don't know who the hell you are talking to, or what they understand. And this, is YOUR "shortcoming".

"If a computer can function with simple on/off switches [or do computers really function? what is the matrix? follow the green rabbit, damn it!]"

-- Ohhh boy! Need I say say more? How goofy can you get? I guess this fool fashions himself as some sort of sci-fi movie character.

"The rest existential philosophical mumbo jumbo I will not even care to comment, anyone that makes such clumsy attempt to confuse someones head with very badly written 'indisputable proof' which may be destroyed by even the smallest of physical or mathematical equations..." etc etc etc... and "I was laughing when reading it."

-- This (above) is what this unbelievably pitiful jack-ass and charlatan has to say about Tucson's profoundly clear and pragmatic comment. This alone shows what an absolute spiritual and intellectual ignoramus this ridiculous poseur is.

"are most likely trapped inside his/her own tiny universe of thoughts and selfmade imaginary wonders"

-- I guess now he's talking about himself again.

"Today, it is not even sure that the philosophers wrote the things that's left to read;"

-- Like I said, this idiot knows very little about philosophy, and nothing about vedanta and advaita, much less tantra. He is just another cheap new-age poseur who desperately wants to be a "neo" guru. This guy isn't even worth laughing at.

"Now, if you all will excuse me, I will await Brian's answer."

-- You will likely wait a long time, you pretentious dim-witted douche-brain. You are about as goofy as you are stupid. Get a god-damn clue, why don't you... before you come here with your sack of imaginary bullshit.

-------------------------------

And this jack-ass made the following comments to Obed, Adam and Tucson:

"As much as I would unlike to mess up Brian Hines weblog with the Teaching your questions are indeed legitimate and should be answered."

-- Ahhh, "the Teaching" you say? Ohhh what a holy pile of phony CRAP thou doth present us.

"Obed. You are pretty much correct in your assumption that being a Neo Being is being an eternal spectator or tourist"

-- Now he switches from sci-fi, to comedy. How predictable. And how painfully absurd.... not to mention UN-enlightened.

"Being a Neo Being has not much to do with being noble or undertake a noble quest, that thoughts will lead pretty much anyone to ... hybris if you like"

-- 'Hubris' you mean, you say? Now that, coming from you, is rather funny.

"I really truly believe that the Creator (which by the way are pure neutral energy separated from The First by The First) is doing a pretty nice work without the interference of others."

-- "separated from The First by The First" you say? Hah! You are definitely one hell of a NEO-goofball. Like I said, you aren't even worth responding to... and thats why Brian in his wisdom has not responded to your pretentious garbage. But I don't mind nailing your ass to the trash-can, just to save Brian the trouble. But we really need Manjit's skill to do a more thorough shredding on this one. But he probably doesn't care to bother with such utter nonsense either.

"In addition to that, creating mass out of energy is not something that you do in a flash with ease. Even creating a single carbon atom is (for a Neo Being) an energy consuming process"

--and--

"The First created the Creator as a catalyst for energy/mass transformation just because too much energy was consumed by her first creations. The First want the physical creations (Her Creations, in a sense) to have as much energy (which includes mass) as possible..."

--and--

"The First's plans (...) trying to create matter from energy. You may do it, if You become a Neo Being, as long as you follow the Laws of The First."

-- Uhhh... did I already say pseudo-spiritual MUMBO-JUMBO? Well, now I did again.

"Adam. 1. I really truly do not know my age; nor do I see the relevance of age in anything anyone do or say."

-- Hey stupid, Adam asked you how old you are, not what you think is "relevant". You clearly evaded/avoided his simple direct question, by claming that you "do not know" your age. What a crock of blatantly disingenuous bullshit!

"To state that ones age have something to do with (for example) wisdom, personal or mental evolution are just stupid!"

-- No one 'stated' that. Adam simply asked you how old you are. You are an obvious poseur who evades simple direct questions. Thus you have lost any and all credibility (not that you ever had any).

"If you like the sound of eternal nonexistance (...) death is not a problem for you. Brian Hines, whos work herein I was commenting in the first place, believed death, or actually Being Dead, to be a problem"

-- That is definitely NOT what I perceived Brian as saying. But I'll have to leave that to Brian to verify.

"I am trying to give him a solution to his problem. For me, personally, death is not an issue."

-- Oh are you now? A "solution" to "his problem" you say? What a pretentious jack-ass you are. And you haven't got a clue where other folks are at in this forum. I also suspect that you are likely heading blindly towards having your ass laughed right out of here soon.

"I think that being a pure energy being demands so much more from your part, instead of just gather your existing mass (...) and leave the premises (or just stay around)."

-- More meaningless nonsense.

"I reckon that there is something with eliminating your mass so that your energybody doesn't have any mass that holds it together (as a kind of glue) which usually means that your energybody becomes in universe what one final exhale becomes in the wind."

-- Just more meaningless mumbo-jumbo, which is exactly what this ridiculous poseur has been posting here from the very get-go.... and trying to present himself as a teacher, as if he has or knows something that no one else has. What an friggin joke! Thyere have been some real goofballs to pass trough this forum, but this fool really takes the cake.

I am still chuckling...

PS: For my other old buddies here:
Don't be too eager otr too naive with a poseur such as this pretentious jackass. And where's Brad? I'd definitely rather have dogmatic ole Brad here any damn day, compared to this "neo" trash-talking fool of so-called "teacher".

[Brian]

Teacher, I've responded to your comments (and invitation) via a blog post:
http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2008/08/my-response-to.html

[Roger]

Tao and Tucson,

Do you two realize, you probably scared off the Teacher. I was hoping to go thru the course work and become a Neo Being, preferably a Creator.

Being one of the above two types, I could possibly have gotten a date with The First (she). This gal could have turned out to be one Hot totally foxy babe. I could have engaged in some harmless lusting.

Secondly, I could have been in a position to create a single carbon atom. Personally, I would have picked another element on the Periodic table. However, I would have been fascinated with a single carbon atom. How the oxidation state of a single carbon atom, the outer molecular orbital with four electrons attached, would have been a thing of wonder.

Unfortunately, my mission has been gravely damaged, by your comments.

Therefore, I am requiring you two, at your expense, to pay for a weekend trip to las Vegas, where I can do some stuff and be properly compensated for my losses

[tAo]

Hang in there Roger... we have yet to see whether the so-called "Teacher" contacts Brian by private e-mail, and delivers the Teaching as Brian has suggested. His offer was primarily to Brian, and Brian has given the green light, so we shall see. If this Teacher won't at least deliver his promised goods to Brian, then its unlikely he is going to do so for you.

But if does, then perhaps Brian will get all of the "neo" low-down, and then teach it to the rest of his wayward Churchless brethren.

Then after y'all get fried, dyed, and "Neo-fied"... you'll be ready to party out with me and all those hot sexy babes down Las Vegas way. I'm a headin down there now on my Harley, so meet me on the strip... or the strippers.

[Brian]

Roger, I haven't gotten my How to Become a Neo Being instructions yet.

Assuming I do, what are you willing to offer to enjoy eternal life?

(Suggested offering: cashier's check made out to me in amount of what eternal life is worth to you...should be a lot -- certainly enough for me to get a really nice present for myself.)

[Roger]

Brian,

Assuming you become a Neo Being, through the instructions, I suggest you contact The First (she). Ask her directly if there is such a thing as an ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Find out absolutely if there is such a truth or not. If there is such an ABSOLUTE TRUTH, then find out how One can absolutely know and understand it. The eternal life questions can wait.
Thanks for the answers, in your rely,
Roger