I doubt that Barack Obama will be using a Church of the Churchless endorsement in his presidential campaign, but I'll offer it anyway: he got more kudos from me than John McCain did as I watched yesterdays' "Civil Forum" sponsored by Rick Warren's Camelback Church.
Still, neither candidate impressed me from a churchless perspective. No big surprise. Heck, they were speaking in a church. And trying to appeal to evangelical voters.
Both Obama and McCain struck me as sincere. Each has deeply felt religious convictions, so far as I could tell. I expected McCain to be less comfortable in the Forum, since he doesn't speak about religion as much as Obama does, but he was surprisingly at ease.
(Some are wondering that this might be because he knew some of the questions ahead of time, not really being in a "cone of silence" while Obama was interviewed by Warren.)
Obama's brand of Christianity is much more palatable to me than McCain's is. Their answers to a question about evil were especially telling.
Each was asked, "Does evil exist, and if it does, do we ignore it, do we negotiate with it, do we contain it, or do we defeat it?"
Obama's answer can be read here. I liked this part of it.
Now, the one thing that I think is very important is for us to have some humility in how we approach the issue of confronting evil, but you know a lot of evil has been perpetuated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil.
Contrast this nuanced and thoughtful response with what McCain said:
Defeat it. Couple points. One, if I'm president of the United States, my friends, if I have to follow him to the gates of hell, I will get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice. I will do that and I know how to do that. I will get that done.
Those words are straight from his stump speech. No thought went into them, no consideration about what the nature of evil is, no recognition that while "evil" vs. "good" makes for good applause lines, the line between these concepts is blurry rather than clear cut – as Obama pointed out.
Plus, if McCain knows how to capture Osama bin Laden, why hasn't he told the Bush administration how to do it?
Unfortunately, as a CNN commentator pointed out, McCain's religious style likely will connect emotionally more with Middle America.
Obama was more thoughtful, and thinking doesn't mesh very well with religion for lots of people. He should get most of the churchless vote though, for what that's worth (not much, sadly).
Actually, McCain somewhat defined evil when he described how terrorists in Iraq took two mentally-challenged womean, strapped them with bombs, and remotely detonated them, and then commented "if that's not evil, then you have to tell me what is." I agree 100%. Obama was awful in the Q&A session and showed how he stumbles through answers w/o a teleprompter, exposing his inexperience.
Posted by: Alex | August 18, 2008 at 10:56 AM
Alex, Sally Quinn of the Washington Post says it well in this column:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/17/AR2008081702080.html
If you want simple answers, McCain is your man. If you want nuance, go with Obama.
She says -- and I agree -- that the real world is Obama's world. But most people don't want to live in the real world of gray.
They want black and white, where evil is evil and good is good.
In the effort to fight terrorism, a lot of innocent people have been killed needlessly. Suicide bombers kill people needlessly.
When you think about this, the distinction between "us, good" and "them, evil" isn't so clear. That's what Obama was pointing to, because that's reality.
People who are absolutely sure they're doing good, usually aren't.
Posted by: Brian | August 18, 2008 at 11:11 AM
I prefer to avoid the SHAM that is called presidential politics and elections, but I will say this:
Obama is directed, funded, controlled, and completely sold-out to very the same sick evil bastards that McCain is. Both are phonies, and neither one of them is even remotely fit to be the next president of the US of A.
Obama will be nothing less than a socialist dictator (tinted green)...OR... McCain will be nothing more than a militant facist dictator (tinted blood-red).
So take your pick. But remember all you suckers, the choice will NOT be yours to make (no matter how it appears in the media).
Dream on...
[ or else go and get youselves better informed at: http://www.infowars.com ]
Posted by: tAo | August 18, 2008 at 11:22 AM
Asking a question about Evil, sounds easy. Any answer is easy to come up with.
Rick Warren should have asked Obama and McCain, "Could you describe what Satan specifically looks like?"
The answers would be fun to examine.
I don't buy into a Satan figure.
Posted by: Roger | August 18, 2008 at 11:57 AM
I agree with tAo. It is a sad reflection on American politics that we have to choose between these two con men. It doesn't matter what they say about religion. It's all BS. I'll vote for McCain because I think he will do less damage in the short run and he may not be able to run for a second term.
Posted by: tucson | August 18, 2008 at 02:04 PM
I completely agree with Tao!
Both parties are completed bought out and have absolutely no interest in the American people. The middle class is against the ropes while our national debt is going through the roof.
I honestly have not hope in either party.
Bob
Posted by: Bob | August 18, 2008 at 05:16 PM
the problem with forums like that one is they want soundbite answers on things that books have been written about. If anybody thinks evil can be explained by two mentally off women (and that story is being disputed), then that person hasn't thought deeply on evil. Perhaps those people believe they are doing their deeds for good and we are the evil ones for seeing it as wrong. I didn't watch the debate because I don't like hearing politicians try to discuss deep issues like for instance evil; but from what I heard about it from those who did see it, if you like deep, thoughtful explorations of truth, you will like Obama. If you want platitudes, you will like McCain. In our culture right now, the quick, don't waste our time answer, is the one most want. Not hard to see who wins then. It won't be the American people
Posted by: Rain | August 20, 2008 at 11:57 AM
Please go educate yourselves. Learn the real truth behind both Obama and McCain here:
http://www.infowars.com
Posted by: tAo | September 02, 2008 at 04:48 PM
and here...
http://www.prisonplanet.com
Posted by: tAo | September 02, 2008 at 04:56 PM