My response to offer of eternal life

Sometimes the notion of dying scares me to death. Like I said in "Who has the best deal on death?" it isn't the dying that bothers me so much, it's the not existing. Forever.

A few days ago "Teacher" left a comment on that post, offering me a darn good deal. (I apologize for not replying sooner, Teacher; I've been busy dealing with some neighborhood land use issues.)

As I have taught others, it would not be impossible to teach You how you may transform yourself into a Neo Being with eternal life and preserved consciousness, as in "Brian will always be Brian".

Sounds great. But…

My first reaction was that I took up a similar offer in 1971, when I was initiated by an Indian guru, Charan Singh, into the Sant Mat / Radha Soami Satsang Beas system of meditation.

Supposedly the guru took up residence in his radiant form at my third eye, and was going to guide me through inner regions of consciousness until I realized my true nature as pure soul: undying, eternal, formless, pure vibrational energy.

Never happened.

Doesn't mean it won't (I still meditate every day, though not in the same fashion as before). However, the thirty-five years or so I spent pursuing eternal life in that fashion makes me wary of practices that sound similar.

Namely, learning how to transform one's consciousness under the direction of a teacher, or guru.

Now, it isn't learning from a teacher that concerns me. I learn Tai Chi from an instructor. I learn ballroom dance from an instructor. I've got no problem learning from someone who knows more about something than I do.

It's the nature of the relationship with a teacher that has to feel right. I jumped from traditional Shotokan karate to a more flexible mixed-arts style partly because I got tired of the "sensei is always right" attitude. I liked being able to ask questions, to talk back, to not have to follow rigid formalities.

So my response to Teacher is: sure, tell me what you've got. If you don't want to share it publicly, you can email me via the link at the top of the left sidebar.

Hopefully the practice can be communicated from a distance. I no longer travel for spiritual inspiration. And I don't believe in paying for it, so when Teacher asked what I had to offer, I thought "Not money, for sure."

I guess what I have to offer any teacher, such as my Tai Chi and dance instructors, is diligence. When I study something, I take it seriously. I pay attention in class; I jot down notes afterward; I practice (though my wife and I have been slacking off on dancing during the summer).

The way I see it, if a consciousness-changing practice truly is scientific, as Teacher describes the process of becoming a "Neo Being" to be, it should be able to be communicated without a lot of mystic mumbo-jumbo.

Or, if it truly flows from some divine source, one would think that it could be transmitted directly to someone – in a vision, dream, spark of inspiration, satori, whatever you want to call it.

Anyway, tell me more, Teacher, if you like. I'm always open to new ideas. I liked "The Matrix," so all the talk of Neo Being sounds pretty cool. What I have to offer is…interest.

Comments

[tAo]

And what I have to offer... is extreme skepticism.

Neo-this and neo-that doesn't impress me one iota.... much less hold my interest.

Talk of extraordinary metaphysical transformation or claims of future immortality is cheap, and there is no after-lifetime guarantee to take to the bank.

Snake-oil, even "neo" snake-oil, is the same old scam that it has always been... nothing more than an oddly enchanting label, yet signifying nothing.

And the clincher was revealed so simply yet so obviously by his rather narcissistic and incredibly lame remark:

"please, tAo, refrain from writing comments until you have anything, and I do meen anything, at all to ask or say that haven't been said in a comment before yours!"

Heh! Heh! Heh!

This pseudo-teacher sort of reminds me of that wonderfully simple old song: "The harder they come, the harder they fall, one and all...."

It goes like this:

"The Harder They Come" (1972) -- by Jimmy Cliff

Well, they tell me of a pie up in the sky
Waiting for me when I die
But between the day you're born and when you die
They never seem to hear even your cry

So as sure as the sun will shine
I'm gonna get my share now, what's mine
And then the harder they come
The harder they fall, one and all
Ooh, the harder they come
Harder they fall, one and all

Well, the oppressors are trying to keep me down
Trying to drive me underground
And they think that they have got the battle won
I say forgive them Lord, they know not what they've done

So as sure as the sun will shine
I'm gonna get my share now, what's mine
And then the harder they come
The harder they fall, one and all
Ooh, the harder they come
Harder they fall, one and all

And I keep on fighting for the things I want
Though I know that when you're dead you can't
So I'd rather be a free man in my grave
Than living as a puppet or a slave

So as sure as the sun will shine
I'm gonna get my share now, what's mine
And then the harder they come
The harder they fall, one and all
Ooh, the harder they come
Harder they fall, one and all

[Trance]

One Step Closer

I cannot take this anymore
I'm saying everything I've said before
All these words they make no sense
I find bliss in ignorance
Less I hear the less you'll say
But you'll find that out anyway

Just like before...

Everything you say to me
Takes me one step closer to the edge
And I'm about to break
I need a little room to breathe
'Cause I'm one step closer to the edge
And I'm about to break

I find the answers aren't so clear
Wish I could find a way to disappear
All these thoughts they make no sense
I find bliss in ignorance
Nothing seems to go away
Over and over again

Shut up when I'm talking to you

[Sam]

My favorite way to deal with death is as you say - laugh at it. A line from The Gladiator - Death smiles at us all, all we can do is smile back.

[Teacher]

Hello, Brian.

There is no need to make any kind of apologies, you are not the only one having other things to do.
I have had a blast being stated as "the crackpot of the year" by your friends, which is someting that I am used to because people apparently doesn't understand what I am saying (or in this case writing). Maybe it is because english is not my native language (which I previously have stated, twice) and it may be difficult for others to understand what I write, or they simply do not want to understand. One additional problem is ofcource that I try to answer questions I am not really allowed to answer because of our present council. Yes, I know, and I try to fight the elitism that's in our organisation; but with our history of having break-out-students/-novices creating muddled religions I can understand their concern on some level..

I really shouldn't even bother but if you don't mind I would like to first answer your philosopher friends.
Where in my comment did I state that I didn't understand Tucsons philosophical existential ravings?
Stating that 1+2+3=123, lika a child, is a 'indisputable truth' that is in itself logically correct, but is Wrong in the world of mathematics.
Stating that existential illusionary blah blah blah, like Tucson, is a 'indisputable truth' that is in itself logically correct, but is Wrong in the world of reality.
Tucsons' last statement however is soo Wrong.
You keep on surfing, Tucson, and have fun the fraction of time you have to live!!

Roger, you are a very funny guy, but I will not even care to answer your lesser serious comments where your testosterone trickles through your words. As an answer to the more serious one (1) I can only say - I will try to, when I will get the time and as much that I'm allowed to, translate some of the Teaching for you; the Beginning, about Neo Beings (lower and higher level of existance, even though I actually have explained most of it here - but a serious translation will become very much more detailed); the rest I refuse translate though there are more than six thousands very fat too detailed hand written tomes.. it was enough to read them!
Btw, it takes a little more to scare me off than some wierd, stupid, irrelevant and/or incorrect comments from humans that doesn't know better.
Like this, tAo, all you did was quote me?! Didn't I ask of you to be silent if you had nothing new to add or ask?
Well, children doesn't always do what they are told..

To be totally frank; you all are making me very sad because the only thing you have done herein is to prove me wrong and in the same time strengthened the ones' in our organisation that wants us to remain some kind of elite know-it-all super observer control group and deprive the general public a gigantic treasure of knowledge. I have fought for you before the council, stating that people are ready to comprehend the reality they live in without letting their brains fly far away to some imaginary world, or showing aggression, spite and other negative properties, and perhaps are so mature that they might actually be able to show some genuine interest and a bit of kindness and are ready to take part of the extensive knowledge in physics (an extensive knowledge about almost all kinds of energies, the interstellar energy that exists between galaxy groups, clusters and megaclusters, elementar particle physics, the unified physics equation, to name a few areas), chemistry (that is also one massive amount of information), mathematics (spherical mathematics for example), litterature (the complete works of Socrates [the originals of cource], the beautiful poems of Nefertiti [originals but not written by herself and (at least according to me) strangely enought written in Greek?!], and much much more), history (we have a lot of old items, the ring of aandaleeb [which apparently is an important ring that our organisation have promised to hold on to for 3 333 years, or so - I haven't read the documents about it - I'm not really interested either] and many other rings, swords, shields, staves, paintings, books; everything are original and in very good preserved shape - fun if you like that kind of things), biology, geneology, energy biology, and many other areas that we have at our disposal. I have fought for the belief that people are able to learn and comprehend, that they are no more than the sum of their biological parts. The council have always stated that the human race is not ready but I have, with my feets apart and my arms crossed, stated what I firmly believe to be the Truth. In your case I was apparently wrong, but my search will be continued for as long as needed (and as long as I am permitted to by my allies within the organisation).
The last few days I have been on questioning before the council, I know that most of them thinks that I am a pain in their canting butts but they can't kick me out or kill me because I am, for now, their only teacher that makes any true results. I know that because I believe in your abilities to grasp the way everything is, the Teaching in other words, this body will someday be destroyed and I will have to find another, which may take a while. It will perhaps be enough time the bad elements in this organisations need to restructure or gather more followers and finally find a solution to the problem 'me'. Who knows? They will perhaps succeed..

Brian, interest is not something that you can offer anyone but yourself. It lies in your interest to learn how to be able to live forever and therefore that's where your interest lies, or at least where it should lie. Noone else is interested in your strife to live forever or any other goals you have in life, regardless. In the teacher/student relation, I would have assumed that you would have listened to what I had to say because it would be in Your best interest and question what I say when you did not understand or when something I say sounds weird or irrational in your mind; then I would have rephrased myself until you would have understood or totally rejected what I say, at least until you get more information and/or proof. I expect nothing less. My relation towards my students are mainly: I talk - they question - I answer (not necessarily in that order); I am not an authority figure; I know that the student / novice have yet to see what I know for a fact and therefore I demand nothing of him/her and I always try to give my students tangible proof of what I am saying.
Perhaps you will see the true facts before your death and indeed will be able to live forever as a Neo Being (which is the only way I know of, here, today, to gain eternal physical life) - perhaps you will not.

When I, a long long time ago - back when I was a little skinny 9 years old lad - was asked pretty much the same question [though in a more difficult way because the question was asked in a way for me to fail - not to help me] I instantly knew the answer.
Think about it;
If The First is the base of everything you see, and do not see, around you - everything you are - everything, The First would want you to remain a physical being as you were created [physically, not by any God] otherwise you would not exist; and then for you to die to give up your mass and energy for the behalf of all other creations that is and will be. She doesn't really want you to become anything remotely like her, with an eternal life; if you do, you do not add anything to the natural cycle of the universe [universe herein is not equivalent to God, only the pretty big place where we all reside]. The First has given of her own energy to create everything, mass is energy - energy is mass, [E=mc²], she is the base of everything, and doesn't need or requires anything.
So the question remains: What Do you offer someone that has everything and requires nothing?
The only resonable answer is to give what she requires..
For you who still can't guess it - the answer is 'nothing'.

The reason for me asking this question is not to fool or trick anyone but to help the student-to-be to enter another state of mind, to release all tensions they might have studying the Teaching to please others than themselves. To make them see that they can't truly study the Teaching to please any God or divinity, their parents, their children or anyone/anything else (not even their own goals) than themselves. Nothing is required of the student - everything is given. A student should realise that they are nothing more than the sum of their individual biological parts, only then they may see the whole picture of reality without doubt and the belief that they possess some imaginary properties.
Many students/novices have misinterpreted the Teaching much because they do what your friends do herein. They do not read what is written, do not hear what is said, assume things, interpret what is not up for interpretation, read what is not written, hear what is not said. Those kind of students, when they have entered the the Self Denial Phase [the prophetic state], have often broken with the Teaching because they have been so sure of their own divinity that they felt the need to preach about what they have found out about the world and ofcource about their own divine status. The Self Denial Phase is a deceiving phase that is a fantasy that ones 'self' / 'ego' have built. It is a phase that one should leave as soon as possible though it is a truly destructable phase where many have starved themselves to death, been crucified or in other ways killed though they have been absolutly certain of their own divinity/immortality and/or the paradise they will come to, in their life after death. They have probably been rather disappointed the some 20 seconds after the moment of death when they are proven wrong and their energybody blends with the surrounding energy and mass after their all-physical brain have been shut down. Then they will realise that their energybody can't uphold any existance without their neurons or any other mass that may be used to replace them, they will simply become a big.. nothing.. And, yes, we have scientific proof of what happens to a human (their physical body as well as energybody) from moments before death, in the moment of death and after death.
Eternal life as a Neo Being [which btw is nothing that happen at or after the moment of death, you are very much alive and in total control of yourself] is a tiny tiny part of the Teaching, almost not worth mentioning - but perhaps the goal of all students, what do I know? - but have herein unfortunatelly been the major part of the discussion because of one persons need for it and my (now) apparent misstake of offering the possibility. I remember that it was not my goal when studying the Teaching; but, everyones goal in life is different.

Brian, I read your comment to your friend Roger and I am relieved that you took my offer, and what you are searching for, so lightly because I have no more questions for you; if you have any questions for me, you have my eMail. If it were up to me, however, you would have been given at least one more chance to answer the question correctly because I like your work and because of it think that I really could guide you in the right direction; but not everything is up to me.
I will also no longer get any salary from the organisation for teaching outside it, I am obliged to count minutes from now on, much because of my failure here, perhaps they plan to starve me to death? That should be a new interesting experience!

I truly hope the guru-buddy in your 'third eye' will guide you well.
We might be seeing you and perhaps even your wife roaming the universe as Neo Beings - it would be fun - but, probably not..

Sincerely, the Teacher of the Teaching.

btw, Neo is greek for New and have herein nothing to do with any anagram for One or whatever. Read what is written!!

or, well, whatever.. I know.. you are.. yes.. I have met you before.. in other worlds.. many times before.. different shape.. different form.. but same state of mind.. impenetrable.. trapped inside your safe desillusional minds.. this is not all that can be, you think.. there has to be more, you say.. this cannot be all.. I know you are wrong.. still impenetrable.. safe.. lost..

my contribution to your minds:
-- The One Tantra --
Master Ko Bong Tom Pung is walking with his students.
Stops, looks up to the sky, and asks his students "What time is it?"

One student raised a fist, one said "No time!", one said "Mu!', one took off his shoes and put them on his head, one pointed to the sky, and another stamped his foot.

The master shook his head, "Idiots! Don't any of you have a watch?"
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

[Amaranth]

Although I am highly skeptical of what the Teacher wrote some part of me feels excited about her words. One thing I did get from this ( regardless if her claims are true or not ) is the humbling experience of ( again ) getting to know that I don't really know alot/anything (?) which is quite a nice thing as when that happens I find myself in a true state of wonder ( which is afterall the foundation of any philosophy because it is itself beyond any particular system of thought and without which every word said is worthless ), where the universe really becomes a thing which is not defined by me.

If it is right with you Teacher, I would very much like to learn more about this Teaching, if only for the sake of wonder.

Cheers,
Grega

[Brian]

Teacher, thanks for your offer. As you noted, I don't seem to be an appropriate receptacle for your teachings. The commenter above would like to know more, though.

[tucson]

Teacher,

Please clarify which of my "philosophical existential ravings" are "soo wrong" and why.

[Obed]

Dear Teacher,
With regard to the play on the word"Neo". I would like
to explain that for me "One" implies "truth".
Therefore a Neo Being is a being of truth.
I feel the one thing that can be offered to
The First is truth.
Best regards
Obed

[Edward]

the teaching sounds a lot like rehab.

[Amaranth]

Obed, what do you mean by the idea of truth? Is being One more true than being Two? In what way?
Also - eventhough if everything that this Teacher says is true ( that is the ideas she said relate to the empirical world ) does it mean that she is a being of truth. I see two possibilities here - either all is One in which case noone holds more truth than the other or there is a strict duality which completely destroys any notion of absolute objective truth as one particular thing cannot know what it is like to be another particular thing. Ok there are other possibilites but for now I just thought of these two. Although thinking about the absolute and truth has it's advantages and good points I don't focus most of my being on it because at this time of my life I do not believe there is such a thing as truth ( apart from the use of true and false in sentences ) except if one were to define truth as experience which is always subjective. But who knows, perhaps things work differently at the absolute level?! Truth or no truth, objective or subjective, nothing can detract from my experience of beauty.

[Roger]

Teacher,

You stated,
"Roger, you are a very funny guy,........"

---Thank you. I do like, from time to time, introduce a little harmless sarcastic humor or throw in a little comic relief.

---Unfortunately, your return has dismissed my attempt to con Tucson and Tao into paying for my free trip to Las Vegas. I had a Loss, and I felt they should compensate me for my Loss. Roundtrip ticket, meals at an expensive cafe, hotel and casino cash expenses, are all now flushing down the toilet. I feel screwed.

---Other than that, Teacher, keep talking, you are a gifted talker. There are many student followers for you to engaged with.

[Obed]

Dear Amaranth,
I suppose I could try and conjure some brilliant reply about why one is more true than two or what
I mean by true but I am afraid I would be lying.
I wrote the way I did because I wanted to show
kindness to Teacher and wish he/her well.
By the way I like your posts even this one.
I also enjoy beauty which does not always has to
be something physical.
All the best
Obed

[Amaranth]

Thanks Obed! I like your honest reply, I am also at a loss when it comes to these heavy ideas like truth or oneness but that doesn't mean that they aren't a big part of my life and I like discussing them. I also wish Teacher well and have no hostility towards her or anyone here for that matter. What she wrote interests me and I hope that this debate will continue.
I think what I find intriguing about talking like this is that dialogue is a really nice way to go out of yourself ( not literally obviously ;) ), that is to try to understand how others see reality, which is the best way to reflect on your own thoughts. And little by little through method of dialogue ( and other methods ) one becomes less restricted ( I don't want to use the word attached because I really don't see anything wrong with attachment ) by his way of thinking and gains power over himself ( opposing the need to have power over others ) so that he can become more open to reality, compassion, beauty and also to do the least harm to others and himself.
This is why I disagree with Teachers' understanding of philosophers. Intellectual practice is not without value.
All the best to you too,
Grega

[Trance]

HEY TEACHER!

We don't need no education,
We don't need no thought control,
No dark sarcasm in the classroom,
Teacher, leave them kids alone.
HEY! TEACHER! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall,
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

We don't need no education,
We don't need no thought control,
No dark sarcasm in the classroom,
Teacher, leave them kids alone.
HEY! TEACHER! Leave us kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall,
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

[tAo]

Thanks Trance... that Pink Floyd song really nailed it. Perfect.

You saved me much trouble and tedium of critiqing that lengthy and utterly pretentious pile of shit-bricks left by the fool who so grandiosly presents himself as "teacher".

It just amazes me how anyone could be so incredibly bombastic as this poseur is.

[Obed]

Hi Amaranth,
You once asked me about the importance of One.
I found the following site very informative

www.attarmusic.com/page16/page20/page20.html

Best regards
Obed