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August 01, 2008

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Brian,
good points here about all of us wandering and taking one step at a time, constantly changing. I often wonder how much we choose within our wandering, if anything at all. It seems sometimes that our "choices" are more interpretations based on feelings like how much our desires are being fulfilled (if something happens according to our wishes and expectations, we may feel more "in control" and believe we did something to cause the result--then we'll try to repeat the behavior).

But control is not what I originally wanted to write about today! Tangent! OK

My main point is about this "on the path" "off the path" stuff. I think we so narrowly define "the path." You seem to be "on the path" to me...you meditate daily, try to live your life without causing pain to others...I guess for me those two broad intentions are the most important. They could be summarized as:

1) a desire and some action taken to "look inwards", and
2) the intention to not make a mess in the world and to live in accordance with something like the golden rule

To declare whether one is on the path or not is basically meaningless without these two points, for me.

Essentially action, as the cliche goes, speaks far louder than words...I think the emphasis should be shifted from defining the "path" to actually "walking" the path...

59 years old you say you are. Hmmm - yes, people go off the path. They think they leave Santmat. Actually while they may 'give up' on the Master and Santmat - they cant affect the nature of the connection that was made at the time of initiation.

The Master has initiated you, and regardless of your 'wanderings', you will be taken back home.

Master gives the analogy of the tractor. he says, the soul that is initiated by the Master is like a man that is connected to a tractor. The tractor will continue on its way, and the soul must follow in its path. Its up to you whether you practice what you promised at the time of initiation - your daily meditation, or not. If you dont then the process of returning to your spiritual home is only delayed. As an initiate you must either walk with the tractor, or be pulled along by it.

This website is a waste of time and energy.

Get back to your duty of looking within yourself, through meditation.

The truth is still and unmoved. Any effort that directs the attention outwardly, that engages it more in the world is wasted effort.

Ramblings like this website point to a distracted way of living. Confused thinking. Apply the simple truth you have been given and stop this nonsense.

rs

Brad
Johannesburg

What can you say to these brainwashed robots like Brad? It's been gone over so much on this site and elsewhere.

Brad, who are you to tell Brian to get back to his duty of meditation (he still meditates daily) and stop writing his blog? If the all-powerful master and his tractor are taking care of him, what concern is it of yours? It's between Brian and the master. His progress is inevitable, right?

bs

unusual initials ...

anyway, BS...

If Brian is an initiate - he is a brother, and brothers can speak plainly.

We all have choices, but the choices have consequences. Some less attractive than the other. Would you rather walk with the tractor, or be pulled?

This website is intellectual smoke that points to a desperate attempt to stroke an ego, that needs a smack on the head.

authors, academics and 'disgruntled re-routed porn-adddicts' (lol see Youtube The Love Guru for a good laugh) that would rather engage in this web-waffle, are the reason why the beauty and simple truths of this world will always be muddied.

Its always easier to engage in this web-waffle, and spout your own academic insecurities - than it is to continue the path for a lifetime and more, and digest it all - and move beyond it. 35 years spend meditating while the mind runs riot with its acrobatics - fades into insignificance, when compared to sitting in meditation for just 5 minutes - with one-pointed love and complete surrender.

this website is a monument to the mind. a warning signpost for true seekers and practitioners of spirituality.

Brad, tell us more about the truth, since you clearly claim to be a "true seeker and practitioner of spirituality."

Where is the evidence for what you said in your first comment? How is what you said different from what a fundamentalist Christian or Muslim believes? Namely, that their faith is the only true one, and there's only one path back to God?

You have regurgitated words and concepts that I've heard for almost four decades. Possibly you're right; probably you;re wrong. You need to provide evidence that leads me or anyone else to tilt toward "you're right" since the likelihood is that you're wrong.

Again, you've parroted some thoughts from the RSSB teachings. Show me the proof, from your own experience or otherwise, that those thoughts have a foundation in reality -- not just in your own mind.

You criticize me for having constructed a "monument to the mind." Where is the evidence that what you've said isn't just mental meanderings, concepts with no basis in reality?

Brad wrote: "If Brian is an initiate - he is a brother, and brothers can speak plainly."

--This is the separation that RS fosters...a special club of the chosen to return to God. Aren't we all brothers? RS teaches that Shabd is what we all are initiated or not. No?

"We all have choices, but the choices have consequences. Some less attractive than the other. Would you rather walk with the tractor, or be pulled?"

--There are traditions that state "choice" is only an appearance and purly illusory from the Absolute point of view. Regardless of that, maybe it is Brian's pralabda (fate) karma to be dragged rather than gently pulled. Who's to know? Ask Brian if he feels like he's being gently pulled or dragged.

"This website is intellectual smoke that points to a desperate attempt to stroke an ego, that needs a smack on the head."

--Again, who are you to be the judge of that? Has the master appointed you to be his official smacker? Many ideas have been expressed here, both sublime and base. This is a forum of exchange. If you don't like "blowing smoke" you don't need to participate. Attend to your simran and bhajan and don't waste your time here. Right?

"..that would rather engage in this web-waffle,.."

--Then why are you here web-waffling? I think your boat has been rocked by ideas presented here and you are trying to stabilize it.

"..the beauty and simple truths of this world will always be muddied."

--You said it yourself: "Any effort that directs the attention outwardly, that engages it more in the world is wasted effort."

--Then why are YOU wasting your effort in this way? And if the world is full of beauty and simple truth why is it bad to direct attention to it? I know the RS answer to that, it's just that you seem to be expressing a pile of contradictions.

"...35 years spend meditating while the mind runs riot with its acrobatics - fades into insignificance, when compared to sitting in meditation for just 5 minutes - with one-pointed love and complete surrender."

--I'm sorry, but you are a baboon. How do you know how many minutes Brian has sat in one-pointed love and surrender? How do you know that this forum is not an appropriate and necessary part of Brian's unfoldment according to his karmas and destiny?

"..this website is a monument to the mind. a warning signpost for true seekers and practitioners of spirituality."

--Your post is a warning signpost to seekers of Truth of the spiritual constriction of being a guru cult follower.

Brad said:"authors, academics and 'disgruntled re-routed porn-adddicts' that would rather engage in this web-waffle, are the reason why the beauty and simple truths of this world will always be muddied."

Actually it is narrow thinking like this that goes away from the simple truths and beauty. It is thinking like this that feeds the so called ego as it is you who watches at the world from your own position but in doing so you do not recognise that there are others who also watch at the world ( and at you with it ). You try to define beauty and truth and by doing so you miss it completely as beauty does not belong to you. Try to read these words by Keiji Haino and undsterstand the essence of beauty

The universe doesn't exist for someone
It doesn't want to be protected by someone
Just to be here That is enough
It doesn't exist just for you
Just continuing to gaze upon this radiance
Even desire already forgotten
Even if the end was announced
Just only being eternally
Just only being eternally
Just only being eternally
Continuing to be together with me

Grega

Have you seen or spoken to Babaji since you left RSSB?

Hi Grega

what one person claims to be narrow thinking, another will view as clear, as defined.

pretty poem. still, im sure all efforts to define the indescribable will always fall short.

Anon, no, I haven't seen Gurinder Singh. Also, the leaving of RSSB was pretty much mutual. I was still attending and giving satsang until I was fired. See:
http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2005/10/ive_been_fired.html

Hi Brian,

Those who have experienced the truth need not be told anything :)
I am very younger to you in age as well as in experiencing the hardships of life.

I do not deserve to tell you something as you have worked so hard and for such a long time in search of Truth. Your working with RSSB is more than my age today.
But I would like to share just one thing that I've experienced my Master's Grace in so many special ways.

Your next question would be what are those experieces?
My answer is I can not tell.

I am no one to say you are wrong or right. you must be having reason for your belief so have others (believers). So who are you trying to wake up?

RS

Ishita, I too have experienced grace in many ways. Only difference is, I feel free to talk about it.

I guess I'd turn your question back on yourself. Who are you trying to wake up? With your comment, I mean.

Me? Or you? In my life, I'm trying to wake up myself. What I write about is a record of this effort (or, non-effort, as it often seems).

This is all we can do, I believe. Wake up our own self. I realize that this goes against the grain of many philosophies, including Sant Mat, which hold that it is the duty of a guru, or master, to wake up others.

That may be. I just don't see much (if any) evidence of it. There are so many gurus, so many masters, so many teachers. Everybody is searching for something; many believe they have found it.

As for me, I consider that honoring mystery and the unknown is the way -- not believing that you've found answers to what the cosmos is all about before you really have.

It's great that you have had enjoyable experiences. But I'm sure you realize that Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Taoists, Wiccans -- everybody has experiences.

You seem to be implying that yours are special, a act of grace from God. Well, maybe. But what about everyone else who has experiences? Are they graceless and Godless?

Hi Brian,

Yes I completely agree with you that all of us must have had experienced His grace in one way or the other. The power was always there within all of us and will remain.
They all are right and they all must have, very much, experienced it.

When does Babaji say its not there with christians or muslims or with believers of any other path?

As I wrote earlier I do not even deserve telling you anything let alone waking you up.
I am sorry if my words came that way. I not very good at expressing myself in english. So hope you won't mind the mistakes :)

I think it will be much of a surprise to you that I follow bhudhist prayers as I've not received Naam yet.I hope some day I will and till then I will continue doing my bhudhism prayers.

I shared my experienece to just tell that I believe in something with my own reasons and experiences so does others. Its always your choice what path you want to go.


RS

Ishita,

You said: "Brian, Yes I completely agree with you that all of us must have had experienced His grace in one way or the other."

-- I think you are mistaken. I have reviewed Brian's blog article as well as his particular comments to you, and nowhere did I find Brian saying or indicating that "all of us must have had experienced His grace in one way or the other". or even anything similar. I think you are assuming that because YOU want to validate your own belief in RS gurus.

You also said: "they all must have, very much, experienced it."

-- Again, its seems you are assuming somehting you call "grace", and that this "grace" is somehow directly related to the RS master... just as in where you said "His grace".

You said: "The power was always there within all of us and will remain."

-- What "power"? ... and HOW do you know that? ... and WHAT makes you so certain for you to be saying "always"?

You said: "I've not received Naam yet."

-- You lack nothing, and you need nothing. Naam is intrinsic in your very existence... so you already 'have' it. Thus you do not need to "receive" it.

You said: "I shared my experienece to just tell that I believe in something with my own reasons and experiences"

-- OK... so what exactly are those "reasons and experiences"??? If you periences"wish to make an assertion of "reasons and experiences", then you should at least provide some sort of evidence or testimony to support your claim.

"Its always your choice what path you want to go."

-- No, not according to the RSSB dogma. RS theology does not believe in "choice".


Tao, yes -- what I called "grace" is nothing more than mystery. Meaning, when something happens to me that I can't understand or find a reason for, sometimes I call it "grace."

It isn't the Sant Mat or Christian sort of grace, a dispensation from a personal being. Rather, it feels like a gift from the universe. Probably it's just something beyond my understanding, and I feel a need to label it somehow.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure that we all feel this unknowable whatever it is. Calling it "life" probably is the best way of putting it.

Brian very well understands what "His" or "Him" stands for. I need not to explain this to him.

I think, Brian can better answer your questions dear. He is well versed with Sant Mat. I am just a novice.

RS

Ishita,

I assume that you are probably responding to me... but unfortunately you did NOT indicate exactly who your comment was directed towards.

Perhaps the next time you will more careful to identify just who it is that you are communicating to.

That being said, here is my reponse to your last comment:

You said: "Brian very well understands what "His" or "Him" stands for. I need not to explain this to him."

-- I do not necessarily agree. You are merely assuming what Brian understands. Brian may or may not know what it is that you mean. The fact remains that you did NOT clearly indicate just who or what this "His" or "Him" actually refers to... in YOUR own mind.

You are assuming that others think and believe and perceive the same way you do. But that is not always true... and especially not with the subject matter of Santmat/RS.

You are relatively new here, so I would advise you to NOT make such premature assumptions about other people (like Brian) understand... such as assuming that they understand and/or agree with you.

So again, please define what it is that you mean by "His" and "Him". And what are you referring to?


"I think, Brian can better answer your questions dear. He is well versed with Sant Mat. I am just a novice."

-- Here is a clear indication that you are NOT at all familiar with other people here, and you also did NOT understand or comprehend what I said to you in my previous comment. I asked YOU some questions... questions that were specifically direscted to YOU, for YOU to answer.

I did not ask Brian. I don't need to have Brian answer anything. I already know a great deal about what Brian thinks. And I also have about 30+ years of knowledge and experience with Santmat/RS and the RSSB. So I dare say that I have far far more experience and knowledge about Santmat & RS than YOU do.

I simply wanted YOU to tell us what it is that YOU think. I simply asked YOU some simple basic questions... so that YOU would clarify what exactly it is that YOU think and believe and presume about Santmat and the RSSB cult and its leader/guru.

But you have somehow apparently misunderstood that, and you have evaded my queries, and you have tried to use Brian to speak and answer for you. But I don't think Brian is necessarily in agreement with your assumptions or your beliefs. I asked YOU (not Brian) because I wanted to know what YOU (not Brian) have to say.

SO again... Why don't you just be more direct and more honest (and not so evasive) and just simply tell us what exactly it is that YOU do think and believe... and more importantly, WHY you do think and believe whatever it is that you believe?

And don't be trying to use Brian as some sort of evasive defense mechanism or in an attempt to validate your own beliefs and assumptions and RS dogma.

You have admitted that YOU are a "novice" relative to Santmat/RS, so it's not very smart to play games with me or with us.

Perhaps you could also explain what is YOUR reason for engaging in this blog's comment forum? -- Why are you here and what is it that you seek to gain (or share) here, if anything?

Thank you.


Although late to the discussion:

Brad said:
"Ramblings like this website point to a distracted way of living."

I'd like to ask: what were you doing here then?

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